Why are Scythians still being associated with modern Europeans? [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

gültekin

08-21-2017, 09:50 AM

Kamal900

08-21-2017, 09:55 AM

gültekin

08-21-2017, 10:05 AM

The Scythians in Europe were definitely genetically very eastern European.

Not true. Here are their Gedmatch IDs, you can check their results. Modern component based calculators should not be used when running these ancient genomes though, calculators with ancient components (EHG, WHG, CHG, neolithic etc) should be used.

T265461
M362842
M837055
M446756
M456377
T866391

Western Scythian from Volga doesn't look "East European" either. The closest modern population is Tatars (notice the distance is 20.23 which means not "close" at all). They were a distinct population with substantial EHG, CHG and East Eurasian admixture, Western Scythians did not resemble any East European population either, not even Tatars who are the closest modern population resemble them.

Scythian_IA (Western Scythian)
# Population Percent
1 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 30.91
2 WHG 30.21
3 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 19.85
4 SE_Asian 7.85
5 Siberian_E_Asian 4.92
6 SW_Asian 3.07
7 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 2.47
8 Ancestral_South_Indian 0.73

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Scythian_IA 0.06
2 RISE_baMezh 18.37
3 Srubnaya 19.5
4 Tatars 20.23
5 RISE_baAndrov 21.12
6 RISE_baUne 22.15
7 RISE_baSin 22.38
8 Russian 24.8
9 RISE_irAltai 25.33
10 RISE_baBb 26.61
11 Ukrainian 27.28
12 Norwegian 28.18
13 Finnish 28.29
14 RISE_baSca 28.48
15 Belarusian 28.52
16 Karelia 28.55
17 Scottish 28.67
18 Czech 29.48
19 Hungarian 29.55
20 Estonian 29.62

Lollipop

08-21-2017, 10:12 AM

The scythians were fully europoid originally, but they traveled the whole Eurasia and mixed with natives.

Early physical analyses have unanimously concluded that the Scythians, even those in the east (e.g. the Pazyryk region), possessed predominantly "Europid" features, although mixed 'Euro-mongoloid" phenotypes also occur, depending on site and period.[129]

Kamal900

08-21-2017, 10:14 AM

Not true. Here are their Gedmatch IDs, you can check their results. Modern calculators should not be used when running these ancient genomes though, calculators with ancient components should be used.

T265461
M362842
M837055
M446756
M456377
T866391

Western Scythian from Volga doesn't look "East European" either. The closest modern population is Tatars (notice the distance is 20.23 which means not "close" at all). They were a distinct population with substantial EHG, CHG and East Eurasian admixture, they did not resemble any East European population, not even Tatars who are the closest modern population resemble them.

Scythian_IA
# Population Percent
1 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 30.91
2 WHG 30.21
3 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 19.85
4 SE_Asian 7.85
5 Siberian_E_Asian 4.92
6 SW_Asian 3.07
7 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 2.47
8 Ancestral_South_Indian 0.73

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Scythian_IA 0.06
2 RISE_baMezh 18.37
3 Srubnaya 19.5
4 Tatars 20.23
5 RISE_baAndrov 21.12
6 RISE_baUne 22.15
7 RISE_baSin 22.38
8 Russian 24.8
9 RISE_irAltai 25.33
10 RISE_baBb 26.61
11 Ukrainian 27.28
12 Norwegian 28.18
13 Finnish 28.29
14 RISE_baSca 28.48
15 Belarusian 28.52
16 Karelia 28.55
17 Scottish 28.67
18 Czech 29.48
19 Hungarian 29.55
20 Estonian 29.62

I would say that these ancient Scythains originated somewhere in North or Central Asia, and they are indeed closely related to the modern day Tatars and other Volga Turkic peoples due on the fact that these people are a mix between native Finno-Ugric peoples, later Turkic tribes and some Slavs in the mix, and they cluster the closest to other peoples of the Volga. Maybe they were racially very similar to the modern day peoples of central Asia like Uzbeks and whatnot or Turanid.

gültekin

08-21-2017, 10:20 AM

The scythians were fully europoid originally, but they traveled the whole Eurasia and mixed with natives.

That quote predates the discovery of Pazyryk Scythian genomes, an outdated bullshit. What the fuck does "fully europid" even mean? Yamnaya was fully West Eurasians (aka "europid" in your vocabulary) but they did not resemble modern European either, they were 1/2 EHG 1/2 CHG.

Pazyryk Scythians were predominantly East Eurasian, lol at "possessed predominantly "Europid" features". We have their genomes now so you can stick that quote up your ass.

Pazyryk Scythian 1: T265461
Pazyryk Scythian 2: M362842

Look how "europid" they are. Not even their West Eurasian components (such as Caucasus_HG and Eastern_HG) are typical European components LOL.

Pazyryk Scythian 1
# Population (source) Distance
1 RISE_irRus 16.68
2 Kyrgyz 17.07
3 Altaian 19.05
4 Uygur 19.21
5 Uzbek 19.33
6 Hazara 20.12
7 RISE_irAltai 20.39
8 Turkmen_Afghan 23.78
9 RISE_baKarasuk 25.88
10 Turkmen 26.59
11 Hazara_Afghan 28.51
12 Tatars 29.72
13 Scythian_IA 36.68
14 Uzbek_Afghan 36.73
15 Tajik_Afghan 37.35
16 Ust_Ishim 40.89
17 RISE_baMezh 41.58
18 Tajik_Pomiri 43.2
19 Russian 44.72
20 Sherpa 44.82

Pazyryk Scythian 2:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Siberian_E_Asian 34.85
2 SE_Asian 30.13
3 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 16.06
4 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 10.73
5 WHG 7.79
6 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 0.45

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kyrgyz 10.65
2 Altaian 10.91
3 RISE_irRus 14.37
4 Uygur 20.83
5 Hazara 22.18
6 Uzbek 26.66
7 RISE_irAltai 29.5
8 Turkmen_Afghan 32.23
9 Hazara_Afghan 34.14
10 Turkmen 34.3
11 RISE_baKarasuk 34.67
12 Ulchi 35.42
13 Mongola 37.95
14 Sherpa 38.73
15 Tatars 42.03
16 Tibet-refugees 42.36
17 Uzbek_Afghan 44.1
18 Tajik_Afghan 44.48
19 Kusunda 45.09
20 Scythian_IA 47.13

Lollipop

08-21-2017, 10:25 AM

That quote is before the discovery of Pazyryk Scythian genomes, an outdated bullshit. What the fuck does "fully europid" even mean? Yamnaya was fully West Eurasian but they did not resemble modern European either, they were 1/2 EHG 1/2 CHG.

Pazyryk Scythians were predominantly East Eurasian, lol at "possessed predominantly "Europid" features". We have their genomes now so they can lie as much as they want.

Pazyryk Scythian 1: T265461
Pazyryk Scythian 2: M362842

Look how "europid" they are. Not even their West Eurasian components (such as Caucasus_HG and Eastern_HG) are typical European components LOL.

Pazyryk Scythian 1
# Population (source) Distance
1 RISE_irRus 16.68
2 Kyrgyz 17.07
3 Altaian 19.05
4 Uygur 19.21
5 Uzbek 19.33
6 Hazara 20.12
7 RISE_irAltai 20.39
8 Turkmen_Afghan 23.78
9 RISE_baKarasuk 25.88
10 Turkmen 26.59
11 Hazara_Afghan 28.51
12 Tatars 29.72
13 Scythian_IA 36.68
14 Uzbek_Afghan 36.73
15 Tajik_Afghan 37.35
16 Ust_Ishim 40.89
17 RISE_baMezh 41.58
18 Tajik_Pomiri 43.2
19 Russian 44.72
20 Sherpa 44.82

Pazyryk Scythian 2:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Siberian_E_Asian 34.85
2 SE_Asian 30.13
3 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 16.06
4 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 10.73
5 WHG 7.79
6 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 0.45

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kyrgyz 10.65
2 Altaian 10.91
3 RISE_irRus 14.37
4 Uygur 20.83
5 Hazara 22.18
6 Uzbek 26.66
7 RISE_irAltai 29.5
8 Turkmen_Afghan 32.23
9 Hazara_Afghan 34.14
10 Turkmen 34.3
11 RISE_baKarasuk 34.67
12 Ulchi 35.42
13 Mongola 37.95
14 Sherpa 38.73
15 Tatars 42.03
16 Tibet-refugees 42.36
17 Uzbek_Afghan 44.1
18 Tajik_Afghan 44.48
19 Kusunda 45.09
20 Scythian_IA 47.13

Pazyrik were not scythian, but culturally scythian.They were out of Scythian urheimat,they were mixed.From Scythians, we have their skulls, their physical description from writtings or statues made by them.
You are a turk, a mixed mongrel of greeks with arabs and iranians with identity problems.

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-VI5.htm

We have seen that the Scythians and Sarmatians, although they undoubtedly included in their ranks many individuals of different political affiliations, formed nevertheless a quite constant principal racial type, which was essentially Iranian and a form of Nordic. In its characteristic low vault, as in other dimensions, it specifically resembled the earlier eastern European and central Asiatic Nordic form. It was essentially a member of the racial cluster associated with the spread of Satem Indo-European speech in both eastern Europe and Asia.

n artworks, the Scythians are portrayed exhibiting European traits.[130] In Histories, the 5th-century Greek historian Herodotus describes the Budini of Scythia as red-haired and grey-eyed.[130] In the 5th century BC, Greek physician Hippocrates argued that the Scythians have purron (ruddy) skin.[130][131] In the 3rd century BC, the Greek poet Callimachus described the Arismapes (Arimaspi) of Scythia as fair-haired.[130][132] The 2nd century BC Han Chinese envoy Zhang Qian described the Sai (Scythians) as having yellow (probably meaning hazel or green), and blue eyes.[130] In Natural History, the 1st century AD Roman author Pliny the Elder characterizes the Seres, sometimes identified as Iranians (Scythians) or Tocharians, as red-haired and blue-eyed.[130][133] In the late 2nd century AD, the Christian theologian Clement of Alexandria says that the Scythians are fair-haired.[130][134] The 2nd century Greek philosopher Polemon includes the Scythians among the northern peoples characterized by red hair and blue-grey eyes.[130] In the late 2nd or early 3rd century AD, the Greek physician Galen declares that Sarmatians, Scythians and other northern peoples have reddish hair.[130][135] The fourth-century Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus wrote that the Alans, a people closely related to the Scythians, were tall, blond and light-eyed.[136] The 4th century bishop of Nyssa Gregory of Nyssa wrote that the Scythians were fair skinned and blond haired.[137] The 5th-century physician Adamantius, who often follow Polemon, describes the Scythians are fair-haired.[130][138] It is

http://newseastwest.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Jats-Scythians.jpg

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/CP1A1N/ancient-world-scythians-warrior-to-bandage-bandaging-leg-wound-wrought-CP1A1N.jpg

http://listverse.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/scythian_warriors_2_ac.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d9/df/9f/d9df9fae84d2aa527546004394c6d8f0--dacia-russia.jpg

Lollipop

08-21-2017, 10:26 AM

Scythian man from Nikopol reconstruction.

http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/pic%5CS%5CC%5CScythian%20man%20from%20Nikopol%20ku rhan%20(reconstruction).jpg

Loki

08-21-2017, 10:29 AM

Because they're our ancestors.

Purohit ji

08-21-2017, 10:29 AM

nice info

gültekin

08-21-2017, 10:34 AM

Pazyrik were not scythian, but culturally scythian.They were out of Scythian urheimat,they were mixed.From Scythians, we have their skulls, their physical description from writtings or statues made by them.
You are a turk, a mixed mongrel of greeks with arabs and iranians with identity problems.

Romanian cunt, you are contradicting yourself. You quoted a sentence about Pazyryk Scythians being "Europid" and when you got pwned you started claiming that they are not Scythians (or mixed).

You speak a Romance language and cluster with non-Romance populations, how the fuck you can accuse anyone of "identity crisis." Romans fucked you in the ass and made you Romance-speakers.

At least we have substantial ancestry from Oghuz Turks/Turkomans, which always appear on our oracle results. I am more Turkic than you are Romance

I cluster with Turkic-speaking populations and Turkmens always appear on my oracle results, I usually come up as 50% Turkmen

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 30.86
2 SW_Europe 24.65
3 NE_Europe 16.01
4 SW_Asia 11.15
5 NE_Asia 6.11
6 Siberia 5.05
7 South_Asia 3.02
8 Americas 0.93
9 Oceania 0.85
10 East_Africa 0.61
11 South_Africa 0.48
12 SE_Asia 0.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Turkish_Aydin 4.49
2 Turkish 7.88
3 Balkar 8.81
4 Kumyk 9.29
5 Turkish_Kayseri 9.7
6 Nogay 11.5
7 Azerbaijan_Azeri 12.81
8 Ossetian 13.05
9 Dagestan_Azeri 13.88
10 Adygei 13.97
11 Greek_Central 16.19
12 Abkhasian 16.62
13 Ashkenazy_Jew 16.78
14 Chechen 16.96
15 Italian_Sicilian 17.63
16 Kurdish 17.81
17 Syrian 18.41
18 Sephardic_Jew 18.54
19 Romani 18.68
20 Tadjik 18.75

gültekin

08-21-2017, 10:35 AM

Scythian man from Nikopol reconstruction.

http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/pic%5CS%5CC%5CScythian%20man%20from%20Nikopol%20ku rhan%20(reconstruction).jpg

Yaeh keep posting this shit, too bad we have their genomes now.

Lollipop

08-21-2017, 10:39 AM

Romanian cunt, you are contradicting yourself. You quoted a sentence about Pazyryk Scythians being "Europid" and when you got pwned you started claiming that they are not Scythians (or mixed).

You speak a Romance language and cluster with non-Romance populations, how the fuck you can accuse anyone of "identity crisis." Romans fucked you in the ass and made you Romance-speakers.

At least we have substantial ancestry from Oghuz Turks/Turkomans, which always appear on our oracle results. I am more Turkic than you are Romance

At least I cluster with Turkic-speaking populations

Kit T910267

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 30.86
2 SW_Europe 24.65
3 NE_Europe 16.01
4 SW_Asia 11.15
5 NE_Asia 6.11
6 Siberia 5.05
7 South_Asia 3.02
8 Americas 0.93
9 Oceania 0.85
10 East_Africa 0.61
11 South_Africa 0.48
12 SE_Asia 0.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Turkish_Aydin 4.49
2 Turkish 7.88
3 Balkar 8.81
4 Kumyk 9.29
5 Turkish_Kayseri 9.7
6 Nogay 11.5
7 Azerbaijan_Azeri 12.81
8 Ossetian 13.05
9 Dagestan_Azeri 13.88
10 Adygei 13.97
11 Greek_Central 16.19
12 Abkhasian 16.62
13 Ashkenazy_Jew 16.78
14 Chechen 16.96
15 Italian_Sicilian 17.63
16 Kurdish 17.81
17 Syrian 18.41
18 Sephardic_Jew 18.54
19 Romani 18.68
20 Tadjik 18.75

I have talked a few weeks ago about pazyrik scythians and said they are not scythians, but culturally scythian.Look at your fat fucked no form pug face and compare it to that of Scythians, from their own art lmao.
Pazyrik were anthropologically predominately europoid.
You cluster with turks, aka other greeko-mongolo-irano-arabo and god knows what else mongrels.The mongoloid turks fucked your ancestors till they spoke their language.You are 100 times more distant to mongoloids, than I am to italians.

gültekin

08-21-2017, 10:41 AM

I'm more Scythian than any Romanian cunt on this forum LOL http://www.ysearch.org/search_view.asp?uid=J5WFW&viewuid=J5WFW&p=0

My y-dna is directly related to Pazyryk Scythians, I match with them
https://s3.postimg.org/5wfwv08f7/Capture1.jpg

Lollipop

08-21-2017, 10:42 AM

Porn Master

08-21-2017, 10:47 AM

why are these balkan and anatolian gypsies obsessed with Scythians and Finnougrians? xD

Lollipop

08-21-2017, 10:47 AM

Yaeh keep posting this shit, too bad we have their genomes now.

That's an ethnic scythian from the capital of Scythia, not a outsider mongrel from Pazyrik or Central Asia.

gültekin

08-21-2017, 10:48 AM

Scythians were R1a satem speakers, not uralid N or turko-mongoloid O,Q,T.

No, they also had other haplogroups such as N.

Anyway, here are other Scythians from Russia. Run their genomes on gedmatch and see how Europid they are :laugh:

M837055 - A17_I0576, Arzhan, Russia AldyBel 7th–6th c. BCE
M446756 - A10_I0577, Arzhan, Russia AldyBel 7th–6th c. BCE

M456377 - Is2 Ismailovo, Russia Zevakino-Chilikta 9th–7th c. BCE
T866391 - Ze6 Zevakino, Russia Zevakino-Chilikta 9th–7th c. BCE

For example

M837055 - A17_I0576, AldyBel 7th–6th c. BCE
# Population Percent
1 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 31.88
2 WHG 21.68
3 Siberian_E_Asian 18.9
4 SE_Asian 13.32
5 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 12.36
6 W_African 1.86

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 RISE_irAltai 13.05
2 RISE_baKarasuk 18.2
3 Scythian_IA 19.34
4 RISE_baMezh 22.58
5 Tatars 24.38
6 RISE_baAndrov 30.43
7 Uzbek 30.45
8 Srubnaya 31.02
9 RISE_irRus 31.12
10 Turkmen_Afghan 31.34
11 RISE_baUne 32.94
12 RISE_baSin 33.12
13 Uygur 33.69
14 Turkmen 33.93
15 Hazara 34.95
16 Russian 34.99
17 Hazara_Afghan 35.75
18 Karelia 37.35
19 Finnish 37.55
20 RISE_baBb 37.56

gültekin

08-21-2017, 10:51 AM

why are these balkan and anatolian gypsies obsessed with Scythians and Finnougrians? xD

Why are Slavs (such as davidski) obsessed with people whom they have nothing to do with? Russians and especially the Poles were the ones who were filling our heads with propagandas like "Scythians resembled Slavs". Turned out they did not resemble Slavs at all. Thanks to Davidski's propaganda most people still believe that Scythians resembled Slavs even after the discovery of Scythian genomes from all over the steppe corridor.

Lollipop

08-21-2017, 10:56 AM

No, they also had other haplogroups such as N.

Anyway, here are other Scythians from Russia. Run their genomes on gedmatch and see how Europid they are :laugh:

M837055 - A17_I0576, Arzhan, Russia AldyBel 7th–6th c. BCE
M446756 - A10_I0577, Arzhan, Russia AldyBel 7th–6th c. BCE

M456377 - Is2 Ismailovo, Russia Zevakino-Chilikta 9th–7th c. BCE
T866391 - Ze6 Zevakino, Russia Zevakino-Chilikta 9th–7th c. BCE

For example

M837055 - A17_I0576, AldyBel 7th–6th c. BCE
# Population Percent
1 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 31.88
2 WHG 21.68
3 Siberian_E_Asian 18.9
4 SE_Asian 13.32
5 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 12.36
6 W_African 1.86

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 RISE_irAltai 13.05
2 RISE_baKarasuk 18.2
3 Scythian_IA 19.34
4 RISE_baMezh 22.58
5 Tatars 24.38
6 RISE_baAndrov 30.43
7 Uzbek 30.45
8 Srubnaya 31.02
9 RISE_irRus 31.12
10 Turkmen_Afghan 31.34
11 RISE_baUne 32.94
12 RISE_baSin 33.12
13 Uygur 33.69
14 Turkmen 33.93
15 Hazara 34.95
16 Russian 34.99
17 Hazara_Afghan 35.75
18 Karelia 37.35
19 Finnish 37.55
20 RISE_baBb 37.56

I ALREADY TOLD YOU FUCKING FAT PIG SHIT, scyhtians were conquered,your samples came from much latter , all historical sources describe scythans as blonde or red headed , they never speak of scythians as asiatic turk scum
.If scythians were mongoloid or partially mongoloid with swarty monkey features, the writtings would have described them so.Even more, why did the scythians portray themselves in sculptures and jewelry,as europoid and progressive?WHy are the skulls found mostly fully europoid and the rest predominately europoid?

Your samplesa are of those that remained and got fconqured fully ,they have genetically nothing to do with scythians.

Lollipop

08-21-2017, 10:56 AM

It is not for nothing that in romanian we have a VERY COMMON saying for "are you stupid?" , "are you turk?"(esti turk?)

gültekin

08-21-2017, 11:01 AM

It is not for nothing that in romanian we have a VERY COMMON saying for "are you stupid?" , "are you turk?"(esti turk?)

Stick these recent genetic info about Scythians up your gypsy ass and never speak about Scythians again, you Romance-speaking cunt.

DNA samples recovered from the remains of two Pazyryk males showed them to be members of Y-chromosome haplogroup N1b-P43.[3]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301548191_Pilipenko_2015_A_PALEOGENETIC_STUDY_OF_P AZYRYK_PEOPLE_BURIED_AT_AK-ALAKHA-1_THE_ALTAI_MOUNTAINS_in_russian

http://www.ysearch.org/search_view.asp?uid=J5WFW&viewuid=J5WFW&p=0

Scythian gedmatch IDs
T265461 - Be9_I05622 Berel’, Kazakhstan Pazyryk 4th–3rd c. BCE
M362842 - Be11_I0563,Berel’, Kazakhstan Pazyryk 4th–3rd c. BCE

M837055 - A17_I0576, Arzhan, Russia AldyBel 7th–6th c. BCE
M446756 - A10_I0577, Arzhan, Russia AldyBel 7th–6th c. BCE

M456377 - Is2 Ismailovo, Russia Zevakino-Chilikta 9th–7th c. BCE
T866391 - Ze6 Zevakino, Russia Zevakino-Chilikta 9th–7th c. BCE

Lollipop

08-21-2017, 11:03 AM

Stick these recent genetic info about Scythians up your gypsy ass and never speak about Scythians again, you Romance-speaking cunt.

DNA samples recovered from the remains of two Pazyryk males showed them to be members of Y-chromosome haplogroup N1b-P43.[3]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301548191_Pilipenko_2015_A_PALEOGENETIC_STUDY_OF_P AZYRYK_PEOPLE_BURIED_AT_AK-ALAKHA-1_THE_ALTAI_MOUNTAINS_in_russian

http://www.ysearch.org/search_view.asp?uid=J5WFW&viewuid=J5WFW&p=0

T265461 - Be9_I05622 Berel’, Kazakhstan Pazyryk 4th–3rd c. BCE
M362842 - Be11_I0563,Berel’, Kazakhstan Pazyryk 4th–3rd c. BCE

M837055 - A17_I0576, Arzhan, Russia AldyBel 7th–6th c. BCE
M446756 - A10_I0577, Arzhan, Russia AldyBel 7th–6th c. BCE

M456377 - Is2 Ismailovo, Russia Zevakino-Chilikta 9th–7th c. BCE
T866391 - Ze6 Zevakino, Russia Zevakino-Chilikta 9th–7th c. BCE

Pazyrik are not ethnic scythians, bu culturally scythians.They locals from Pazyrik were dominated by scythians, and later the mongoloids fucked them again.Irrelevant study.

Scythian man from the capital of Scythia.

http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/pic%5CS%5CK%5CSkhilouros%20from%20Neapolis_Reconst ruction.jpg

gültekin

08-21-2017, 11:08 AM

Pazyrik are not ethnic scythians, bu culturally scythians.They locals from Pazyrik were dominated by scythians, and later the mongoloids fucked them again.Irrelevant study.

4 out of those 6 Scythians are not from Pazyryk but from Russia, only 2 of them are Pazyryk Scythians. Are these Scythian not Scythian too? :laugh: Go check their results on gedmatch. All Scythian samples have substantial East Eurasian admixture, and their West Eurasian components are mainly EHG and CHG (not really "European")

T265461 - Be9_I05622 Berel’, Kazakhstan Pazyryk 4th–3rd c. BCE
M362842 - Be11_I0563,Berel’, Kazakhstan Pazyryk 4th–3rd c. BCE

M837055 - A17_I0576, Arzhan 7th–6th c. BCE
M446756 - A10_I0577, Arzhan 7th–6th c. BCE

M456377 - Is2 Ismailovo, Russia Zevakino-Chilikta 9th–7th c. BCE
T866391 - Ze6 Zevakino, Russia Zevakino-Chilikta 9th–7th c. BCE

Köstebek

08-21-2017, 11:09 AM

Scythian is a life style culture anyway. Pazyryk and the west ones all considered Scythian. I dont understand whats the fight about

Lollipop

08-21-2017, 11:13 AM

4 out of those 6 Scythians are not from Pazyryk but from Russia, only 2 of them are Pazyryk Scythian. Are they not Scythian too? :laugh: Go check their results on gedmatch.

T265461 - Be9_I05622 Berel’, Kazakhstan Pazyryk 4th–3rd c. BCE
M362842 - Be11_I0563,Berel’, Kazakhstan Pazyryk 4th–3rd c. BCE

M837055 - A17_I0576, Arzhan 7th–6th c. BCE
M446756 - A10_I0577, Arzhan 7th–6th c. BCE

M456377 - Is2 Ismailovo, Russia Zevakino-Chilikta 9th–7th c. BCE
T866391 - Ze6 Zevakino, Russia Zevakino-Chilikta 9th–7th c. BCE

Arzhan is in Siberia, near Mongolia, Kazakhstan is in Central Asia.And where is the sample from South Ukraine, the scythians Urheimat?

Lollipop

08-21-2017, 11:14 AM

If the skull found is not europoid, then that's not a scythian, so ydna tests should not be used on them.

gültekin

08-21-2017, 11:15 AM

Scythian is a life style culture anyway. Pazyryk and the west ones all considered Scythian. I dont understand whats the fight about

Read the op, that's not the point of this thread. Even after the discovery of Scythian genomes from the various locations of the Eurasian steppe (which has proven that Scythians did not resemble modern Europeans at all) people still think they were modern European-like.

I have noticed that Europeans with brown fetish usually think of "Europid Scythians" banging brown Indian women. They probably fap to that myth.

I bet many of them plan to visit India and bang Indian hookers while dreaming of "Europid Scythian conquerors" LOL.

gültekin

08-21-2017, 11:21 AM

If the skull found is not europoid, then that's not a scythian, so ydna tests should not be used on them.

We have Scythian sample from Volga with substantial east eurasian admixture too. The Scythians who invaded India were "Sakae" from Central Asia anyway.

Lollipop

08-21-2017, 11:23 AM

We have Scythian sample from Volga with substantial east eurasian admixture too. The Scythians who invaded India were "Sakae" from Central Asia anyway.

Volga was not scythian territory.In Ancient times it is were diferent mongolo-uralid populations wandered.The scythians who invaded India were r1a-z93,the father clade was found in Poland aswell as the culture brought by them is foreign to Central Asia.Its irrelevent,they are described as fully european,even called 'germanic' , and they depict themselves as european, the rest is not important,what remained in scythia got conqured

Pahli

08-21-2017, 12:18 PM

Lets settle this again, you both have some good points but Western Scythians and Sarmatians aren't really that Mongoloid:

First two are early Sarmatians in Pokrovka, last two are Scythian_IA in Volga and Hungary:

M084152

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_Europe 53.65
2 West_Asia 25
3 SW_Europe 17.02
4 Americas 2.38
5 SE_Asia 1.1
6 South_Asia 0.65
7 West_Africa 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Mordovian 16.93
2 Ukrainian 17.32
3 Russian 18.45
4 Belarusian 18.63
5 Slovak 18.73

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.2% Latvian + 40.8% Chechen @ 7.28
2 59.4% Lithuanian + 40.6% Chechen @ 7.47
3 60.2% Estonian + 39.8% Chechen @ 7.98
4 63.8% Polish + 36.2% Chechen @ 8.85
5 63.6% Latvian + 36.4% Adygei @ 8.97

M084152

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_Europe 56.28
2 West_Asia 22.28
3 SW_Europe 13.74
4 Siberia 5.17
5 South_Asia 1.4
6 Americas 1.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Mordovian 13.97
2 Russian 15.84
3 Belarusian 18.16
4 Ukrainian 18.32
5 Polish 18.37

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.9% Finnish + 38.1% Chechen @ 7.41
2 65.7% Finnish + 34.3% Adygei @ 8.7
3 66.7% Latvian + 33.3% Tadjik @ 9.09
4 67.6% Finnish + 32.4% Dagestan_Azeri @ 9.15
5 65.5% Latvian + 34.5% Chechen @ 9.32

M348213- Volga

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_Europe 47.19
2 West_Asia 24.04
3 SW_Europe 13.65
4 Siberia 6.75
5 South_Asia 3.11
6 Americas 3.02
7 NE_Asia 1.25
8 SE_Asia 0.98

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tatar 13.67
2 Chuvash 18.02
3 Mordovian 18.65
4 Moldavian 20.39
5 Ukrainian 20.91

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.3% Mordovian + 37.7% Tadjik @ 7.16
2 51.8% Latvian + 48.2% Tadjik @ 7.24
3 51.9% Lithuanian + 48.1% Tadjik @ 7.38
4 58.5% Russian + 41.5% Tadjik @ 7.41
5 67.8% Mordovian + 32.2% Afghan_Pashtun @ 7.44

F999929 - Hungary

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_Europe 46.68
2 SW_Europe 29.46
3 West_Asia 19.37
4 Americas 2.33
5 Siberia 1.25
6 SW_Asia 0.91

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Slovak 8.34
2 Moldavian 8.39
3 Slovene 8.86
4 Hungarian 8.88
5 Bosnian 9.04

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.8% Norwegian + 29.2% Chechen @ 3.31
2 73.2% Norwegian + 26.8% Adygei @ 3.79
3 68.4% Swedish + 31.6% Chechen @ 3.91
4 70.7% Swedish + 29.3% Adygei @ 4.08
5 75.2% Norwegian + 24.8% Dagestan_Azeri @ 4.17

Now quit associating them with Asians or Mongoloids, they were Caucasoid / Europoid, not anywhere near Mongoloid. The ones attested in history were almost fully Caucasoid with minor Mongoloid input so quit thinking the real Scythians were the ones in the Altais, they were already on the verge of being Turkified.

So; Western Scytho-Sarmatians, even those living near Volga, are genetically somewhere between 2/3 Baltic, 1/3 Tajik and 50/50 Baltic and Tajik. Case closed.

gültekin

08-21-2017, 12:31 PM

First two are early Sarmatians, not Scythians.

^Why do you insist on using those calculators with modern regional components anyway? They don't even distinguish Eastern_HG from Western_HG, which is very important when it comes to ancient genomes. You can't use modern regional calculators on those ancient genomes.

Here is what they get on ancient calculators

Sarmatian 1
Kit M084152

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 30.29
2 WHG 29.01
3 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 19.51
4 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 13.31
5 SE_Asian 5.53
6 Siberian_E_Asian 2.36

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Scythian_IA 11.33
2 Srubnaya 14.52
3 RISE_baUne 16.99
4 RISE_baAndrov 18.17
5 RISE_baMezh 18.77
6 RISE_baSin 19.16
7 Tatars 20.47
8 RISE_baSca 22.31
9 RISE_baBb 23.49
10 Ukrainian 23.55
11 Russian 23.58
12 Norwegian 23.8
13 Scottish 24.05
14 Hungarian 24.45
15 Czech 25.04
16 English 25.44
17 Belarusian 25.86
18 Icelandic 26.03
19 Croatian 26.37
20 Bulgarian 27.63

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 72.4% Srubnaya + 27.6% Uzbek_Afghan @ 4.18
2 73.1% Srubnaya + 26.9% Tajik_Afghan @ 4.25
3 73.8% Srubnaya + 26.2% Hazara_Afghan @ 4.46
4 90.2% Scythian_IA + 9.8% LBK_EN @ 5.08
5 90.2% Scythian_IA + 9.8% Anatolia_Neolithic @ 5.09
6 87.1% Scythian_IA + 12.9% Iceman @ 5.47
7 77.2% Srubnaya + 22.8% Burusho @ 5.55
8 72.6% Srubnaya + 27.4% Turkmen @ 5.64
9 68.8% Srubnaya + 31.2% Tajik_Pomiri @ 5.65
10 71.8% Srubnaya + 28.2% Turkmen_Afghan @ 5.72
11 67.4% RISE_baSin + 32.6% Tajik_Afghan @ 6.08
12 71.9% RISE_baSin + 28.1% Kurd_SE @ 6.09
13 75% Srubnaya + 25% Pashtun_Afghan @ 6.19
14 73.6% Srubnaya + 26.4% Uzbek @ 6.23
15 78.1% Srubnaya + 21.9% Kurd_SE @ 6.35
16 61.9% RISE_baSin + 38.1% Tajik_Pomiri @ 6.48
17 66.7% RISE_baSin + 33.3% Uzbek_Afghan @ 6.48
18 71.5% RISE_baSin + 28.5% Burusho @ 6.49
19 77.4% Srubnaya + 22.6% Hazara @ 6.59
20 74.8% RISE_baUne + 25.2% Kurd_SE @ 6.63

Scythian_IA Volga
Kit M374116

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 30.91
2 WHG 30.21
3 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 19.85
4 SE_Asian 7.85
5 Siberian_E_Asian 4.92
6 SW_Asian 3.07
7 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 2.47
8 Ancestral_South_Indian 0.73

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Scythian_IA 0.06
2 RISE_baMezh 18.37
3 Srubnaya 19.5
4 Tatars 20.23
5 RISE_baAndrov 21.12
6 RISE_baUne 22.15
7 RISE_baSin 22.38
8 Russian 24.8
9 RISE_irAltai 25.33
10 RISE_baBb 26.61
11 Ukrainian 27.28
12 Norwegian 28.18
13 Finnish 28.29
14 RISE_baSca 28.48
15 Belarusian 28.52
16 Karelia 28.55
17 Scottish 28.67
18 Czech 29.48
19 Hungarian 29.55
20 Estonian 29.62

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 99.8% Scythian_IA + 0.2% RISE_baMezh @ 0.04
2 100% Scythian_IA + 0% Karelia_HG @ 0.04
3 100% Scythian_IA + 0% Samara_HG @ 0.04
4 99.9% Scythian_IA + 0.1% RISE_baKarasuk @ 0.04
5 99.9% Scythian_IA + 0.1% MA1 @ 0.05
6 99.9% Scythian_IA + 0.1% RISE_irAltai @ 0.05
7 100% Scythian_IA + 0% Nganasan @ 0.05
8 99.9% Scythian_IA + 0.1% RISE_baAndrov @ 0.05
9 99.9% Scythian_IA + 0.1% Srubnaya @ 0.05
10 100% Scythian_IA + 0% RISE_irRus @ 0.05
11 100% Scythian_IA + 0% RISE_baSin @ 0.05
12 100% Scythian_IA + 0% RISE_baUne @ 0.06
13 100% Scythian_IA + 0% Ulchi @ 0.06
14 100% Scythian_IA + 0% Abkhasian @ 0.06
15 100% Scythian_IA + 0% Adygei @ 0.06
16 100% Scythian_IA + 0% Albanian @ 0.06
17 100% Scythian_IA + 0% Altaian @ 0.06
18 100% Scythian_IA + 0% Ami @ 0.06
19 100% Scythian_IA + 0% Anatolia_Neolithic @ 0.06
20 100% Scythian_IA + 0% Armenian @ 0.06

Pahli

08-21-2017, 12:37 PM

First two are early Sarmatians, not Scythians.

I know that and thats what I wrote, are you going to argue that Sarmatians aren't related to Scythians? They are almost the same people so there is not an issue in including them.

It doesn't matter, what we are looking for specifically, is East Eurasian admixture, not some extra EHG (which didn't even exist 2500 years ago). You got the results above you, don't overestimate the East Eurasian in them, its minor in comparison to Tatars that have at least twice as much as the Scythian Volga sample. I still believe they would come out as a mix of Baltic and Central Asian population.

Even with extra that EHG, they will just plot more towards Balts, Finns and Finno-Ugrics, not East.

gültekin

08-21-2017, 01:04 PM

I know that and thats what I wrote, are you going to argue that Sarmatians aren't related to Scythians? They are almost the same people so there is not an issue in including them.

It doesn't matter, what we are looking for specifically, is East Eurasian admixture, not some extra EHG (which didn't even exist 2500 years ago). You got the results above you, don't overestimate the East Eurasian in them, its minor in comparison to Tatars that have at least twice as much as the Scythian Volga sample. I still believe they would come out as a mix of Baltic and Central Asian population.

Even with extra that EHG, they will just plot more towards Balts, Finns and Finno-Ugrics, not East.

Even those that are labelled as "Scythians" reflect very heterogenous steppe populations, Sarmatians might have resembled Western Scythians but they were not identical. I think they were also heteroneous.

I'm not overestimating anything as I'm not the one who made those calculators. What you call extra (EHG) was their main component, modern European Slavs have 10-15% EHG on average. Even if we exclude their East Eurasian admixture they are still very different. They can not be modelled as a mix of modern populations because they had more EHG (30%) than every modern population, which is why they come out as a mix of some ancient population + modern population on oracle.

Pahli

08-21-2017, 01:09 PM

Even those that are labelled as "Scythians" reflect very heterogenous steppe populations, Sarmatians might have resembled Western Scythians but they were not identical. I think they were also heteroneous.

I'm not overestimating anything as I'm not the one who made those calculators. What you call extra (EHG) was their main component, modern European Slavs have 10-15% EHG on average. Even if we exclude their East Eurasian admixture they are still very different. They can not be modelled as a mix of modern populations because they had more EHG (30%) than every modern population, which is why they come out as a mix of some ancient population + modern population on oracle.

EHG peaks in Finns which is why it makes perfect sense to model them as some kind of Baltic / Central Asian population. That is the closest thing we can model Scythians and Sarmatians as. We don't exactly know how they would look like, but I am fairly certain they would have some kind of resemblance to Eastern Europeans or Finno-Ugrians in Volga, perhaps with a bit Baltid influence physically, but they probably were also a bit diverse in their looks.

Myanthropologies

08-21-2017, 01:27 PM

Pahli

08-21-2017, 01:29 PM

What about Samara Scythians? Are they technically Western ones? I have significant Scythian Samara and Sarmatian ancestry according to ancient calculators, but dont have much mongoloid.

Because only the Samara Scythian had some Mongoloid (12%) while the Sarmatians had much less, you shouldn't worry about it, its mostly the CHG, South Asian and NE_Euro that gives you high Scytho-Sarmatian ancestry plus the absence of Near Eastern admixture.

Myanthropologies

08-21-2017, 01:31 PM

Because only the Samara Scythian had some Mongoloid (12%) while the Sarmatians had much less, you shouldn't worry about it, its mostly the CHG, South Asian and NE_Euro that gives you high Scytho-Sarmatian ancestry plus the absence of Near Eastern admixture.

I was just curious, absolutely nothing wrong with being mixed with Mongoloid or anything. I just think this is another thread trying to claim that Scythians were Turkic lmao.

Pahli

08-21-2017, 01:32 PM

I was just curious, absolutely nothing wrong with being mixed with Mongoloid or anything. I just think this is another thread trying to claim that Scythians were Turkic lmao.

Yes but it fails to prove that. Pazyryk Scythians are in no way representants of the Scythians that were historically attested. Would be nice to see a Tajik / Pamiri Tajik result as I can imagine they would get some more Steppe and bit less South Asian.

Myanthropologies

08-21-2017, 01:35 PM

Yes but it fails to prove that. Pazyryk Scythians are in no way representants of the Scythians that were historically attested. Would be nice to see a Tajik / Pamiri Tajik result as I can imagine they would get some more Steppe and bit less South Asian.

I've seen them in qpadm. Compared to pashtuns, Pamiri Tajiks score about 8-10% more steepe, increased East Asian, etc. Some Tajiks actually have less steepe ancestry and more south asian ancestry than some Pashtuns do, depending on the region. Afghan Tajiks, Pamiri, and Pashtuns genetically cluster, so their results would be all over the place. Pamiris score roughly 60% Steepe in these ancient admixture tools too.

Pahli

08-21-2017, 01:40 PM

I've seen them in qpadm. Compared to pashtuns, Pamiri Tajiks score about 8-10% more steepe, increased East Asian, etc. Some Tajiks actually have less steepe ancestry and more south asian ancestry than some Pashtuns do, depending on the region. Afghan Tajiks, Pamiri, and Pashtuns genetically cluster, so their results would be all over the place. Pamiris score roughly 60% Steepe in these ancient admixture tools too.

Pamiris should be the closest Iranic ethnicity to Scytho-Sarmatians, they are basically Pashtuns with less South Asian and more Steppe and little extra Mong too.

Myanthropologies

08-21-2017, 01:47 PM

Pamiris should be the closest Iranic ethnicity to Scytho-Sarmatians, they are basically Pashtuns with less South Asian and more Steppe and little extra Mong too.

Their East Asian puts them closer to Scythians, their steepe isn't much different from what many pashtuns get. I've seen some Pakistani Pashtuns score as much steepe as them even.

Babak

08-21-2017, 02:01 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0O-st4t1pU

Pahli

08-21-2017, 02:06 PM

Their East Asian puts them closer to Scythians, their steepe isn't much different from what many pashtuns get. I've seen some Pakistani Pashtuns score as much steepe as them even.

Aren't you 1/8 Persian btw? It should give you a little bit of Middle Eastern in the DNA test you've taken and actually lowers your steppe a little bit (nothing big tho)

Myanthropologies

08-21-2017, 02:54 PM

Aren't you 1/8 Persian btw? It should give you a little bit of Middle Eastern in the DNA test you've taken and actually lowers your steppe a little bit (nothing big tho)

I score high steepe because my persian is Afghan Persian/Tajik. I score around a quarter NE European, and 30% European in total. I'm 1/8 Afghan Persian (Tajik, they just call themselves Persian).

Babak

08-21-2017, 03:04 PM

I score high steepe because my persian is Afghan Persian/Tajik. I score around a quarter NE European, and 30% European in total. I'm 1/8 Afghan Persian (Tajik, they just call themselves Persian).

Yea I've noticed a lot of tajiks are calling themselves persians now. Even some pamiri tajiks from tajikistan lol. I know a couple here and its surprising that they refer themselves as such.

Turkminator

08-21-2017, 03:08 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0O-st4t1pU

From which part of India is this music?

Babak

08-21-2017, 03:09 PM

From which part of India is this music?

its afghan, man lol

Myanthropologies

08-21-2017, 03:23 PM

Yea I've noticed a lot of tajiks are calling themselves persians now. Even some pamiri tajiks from tajikistan lol. I know a couple here and its surprising that they refer themselves as such.

Yeah. It's because Tajik translates to persian speaker anyways

Myanthropologies

08-21-2017, 03:23 PM

its afghan, man lol

He knows, he's just trying to be a smartass

Pahli

08-21-2017, 03:27 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4_jmbIL5IM

Reminds me of the times I was driving in car with some Afghan Pashtun friends

Myanthropologies

08-21-2017, 03:40 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4_jmbIL5IM

Reminds me of the times I was driving in car with some Afghan Pashtun friends

This one too

https://youtu.be/7Lmnfd5YJ1Y

Also, you poor soul, driving in a car with afghans lol. Afghans drive like maniacs.

Pahli

08-21-2017, 04:12 PM

This one too

https://youtu.be/7Lmnfd5YJ1Y

Also, you poor soul, driving in a car with afghans lol. Afghans drive like maniacs.

You should see my mothers family, its not much better xD

This Pashtun Jesus tho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1S596oplQs

Voskos

08-21-2017, 07:36 PM

From Davidski's blog:
Time to have a look at the Scythian steppe warrior from the Mathieson et al. dataset. This is the first Scythian individual to be genotyped.

He comes from the Volga steppes of 380-200 cal BCE and belongs to Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a, which is the dominant Y-haplogroup in Scythian and related remains tested to date.

His genome-wide data puts him closest to Northeast and Northwest Europeans from among present-day populations, rather than West and South Asians, who should, in theory, carry significant Scythian ancestry. We can probably put this down to the complex ancestry of West and South Asians.

Moreover, he can be modeled as a mixture of Middle Bronze Age Potapovka people of the Volga steppes and present-day Nganasans of Siberia. This gels rather nicely with archaeological evidence, which suggests that Scythians were the descendants of Bronze Age Eastern European migrants to South Siberia, who expanded west across the Eurasian steppe during the Iron Age and eventually ended up back in Europe.

Identical-by-State (IBS) similarity

Lithuanian 0.645247
Estonian 0.645233
Latvian 0.645024
Russian_Kostroma 0.644946
Irish 0.644902
Orcadian 0.644792
Norwegian 0.644754
Belorussian 0.644727
Swedish 0.644667
Polish 0.644664
Austrian 0.644639
Danish 0.644587
English_Cornwall 0.644556
Belgian 0.644552
Scottish_Argyll 0.644548

Full output available here

Outgroup f3 shared drift statistics

Estonian 0.313726
Latvian 0.313664
Lithuanian 0.313574
Russian_Orel 0.313346
Finnish_Southwest 0.312997
Orcadian 0.312768
Norwegian 0.312768
Belorussian 0.312676
Russian_Kostroma 0.312669
Swedish 0.312608
Karelian 0.312567
Polish 0.31243
Irish 0.312281
Polish_Estonian 0.312156
Finnish 0.312102

gültekin

08-21-2017, 08:19 PM

From Davidski's blog:
Time to have a look at the Scythian steppe warrior from the Mathieson et al. dataset. This is the first Scythian individual to be genotyped.

Have you even read the thread? Davidski is the one responsible for that "Scythian=Slav" myth, and you are quoting him LOL. Scythian samples are there, they don't resemble modern East Europeans, not even their West Eurasian ancestry (EHG+CHG+WHG) is East European like. East Europeans are quite western shifted compared to ancient steppe populations who were mainly EHG+CHG.

Pahli

08-21-2017, 08:24 PM

Have you even read the thread? Davidski is the one responsible for that "Scythian=Slav" myth, and you are quoting him LOL. Scythian samples are there, they don't resemble modern East Europeans, not even their West Eurasian ancestry (EHG+CHG+WHG) is East European like. East Europeans are quite western shifted compared to ancient steppe populations who were mainly EHG+CHG.

They resemble Eastern Europeans more than West and South Asians, mix of EHG and CHG is kinda like mixing a Finn / Balt with some ethnicity with high CHG admixture, since both EHG and CHG have high ANE admixture, they will plot North and slightly Eastward compared to modern Eastern Europeans. But you are right, they are definitely not Slavs.

MagnusAurelius

08-21-2017, 08:27 PM

Look at this thread for example: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?218480-The-Great-Cuckold-Story-Of-The-Jatt-Caste-In-India-Product-Of-Big-White-Men-Breeding-Indian-Women!

According to the creater of the topic Scythians were modern European-looking guys who invaded India and mated with brown indians. Is that really the case? I thought the myth of Scythians being modern European-like in terms of looks and genetics was debunked?

Does this Scythian from Kazakhstan look European to you? :confused:

Berel’, Kazakhstan 4th–3rd c. BCE

# Population Percent
1 Siberian_E_Asian 29.19
2 SE_Asian 21.15
3 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 16.35
4 WHG 14.17
5 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 10.65
6 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 4.57
7 Ancestral_South_Indian 3.41
8 SW_Asian 0.52

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 RISE_irRus 16.68
2 Kyrgyz 17.07
3 Altaian 19.05
4 Uygur 19.21
5 Uzbek 19.33
6 Hazara 20.12
7 RISE_irAltai 20.39
8 Turkmen_Afghan 23.78
9 RISE_baKarasuk 25.88
10 Turkmen 26.59
11 Hazara_Afghan 28.51
12 Tatars 29.72
13 Scythian_IA 36.68
14 Uzbek_Afghan 36.73
15 Tajik_Afghan 37.35
16 Ust_Ishim 40.89
17 RISE_baMezh 41.58
18 Tajik_Pomiri 43.2
19 Russian 44.72
20 Sherpa 44.82

Not even westernmost Scythians who were predominantly West Eurasian resembled modern Europeans, they were EHG/CHG-rich folk with substantial East Eurasian admixture.

Fake imaginary Scythians drawn by whg/neolithic europeans. LOL Davidski from Eurogenes made so much propaganda about Scythians being European-like that even after the discovery of real Scythian genomes people still think that they were modern European-like (whg+neolithic). No they were not you fucking idiots.
http://i.imgur.com/HrGRUdb.jpg

REAL SCYTHIAN :laugh:
Berel’, Kazakhstan 4th–3rd c. BCE

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Siberian_E_Asian 29.19
2 SE_Asian 21.15
3 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 16.35
4 WHG 14.17
5 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 10.65
6 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 4.57
7 Ancestral_South_Indian 3.41
8 SW_Asian 0.52

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 RISE_irRus 16.68
2 Kyrgyz 17.07
3 Altaian 19.05
4 Uygur 19.21
5 Uzbek 19.33
6 Hazara 20.12
7 RISE_irAltai 20.39
8 Turkmen_Afghan 23.78
9 RISE_baKarasuk 25.88
10 Turkmen 26.59
11 Hazara_Afghan 28.51
12 Tatars 29.72
13 Scythian_IA 36.68
14 Uzbek_Afghan 36.73
15 Tajik_Afghan 37.35
16 Ust_Ishim 40.89
17 RISE_baMezh 41.58
18 Tajik_Pomiri 43.2
19 Russian 44.72
20 Sherpa 44.82

It doesn't matter if their ancestry is European or not, I was going by the way they look, the majority of Scythians were fair skinned and a diverse composite of East Nordid, Alpinid and Dinarid phenotypes. Have you even seen Scythian mummies. That thread clearly shows what they looked like, those Scythian mummies obviously resembled Europeans.

Pahli

08-21-2017, 08:32 PM

Lets settle this once for all; Scytho-Sarmatians are a modern day mix of Balts and Central Asians. Some of the samples vary a lot, the Eastern ones are heavily admixed with Mongoloids while the Western ones show only little input and resemble Eastern Europeans to a certain limit; What makes them different from Eastern Europeans is their high West Asian admixture + little Mongoloid, otherwise they would be nearly identical with specific Eastern European ethnicities.

But I guess that mixing a Finn / Balt with a Tajik is the closest thing we can get to them if we would like to model them genetically today :laugh:

Myanthropologies

08-21-2017, 08:33 PM

They resemble Eastern Europeans more than West and South Asians, mix of EHG and CHG is kinda like mixing a Finn / Balt with some ethnicity with high CHG admixture, since both EHG and CHG have high ANE admixture, they will plot North and slightly Eastward compared to modern Eastern Europeans. But you are right, they are definitely not Slavs.

I would say they're something in between Eastern Europeans and Eastern Iranics, definitely closer to Eastern Iranics than they are to modern West and South Euros, as I have seen on PCA. But they were overall like no modern Population at all.

Lavrentis

08-21-2017, 08:36 PM

This thread is brought to you by an OWDer who used to spread theories that Turks are half Greek and who wears glasses in his avatar picture because he wants to hide his slanted eyes.

gültekin

08-21-2017, 08:41 PM

This thread is brought to you by an OWDer who used to spread theories that Turks are half Greek and who wears glasses in his avatar picture because he wants to hide his slanted eyes.
buuuu :lol:
https://s28.postimg.org/kpz55mgod/timur1.jpg

Lavrentis

08-21-2017, 08:44 PM

buuuu :lol:
https://s28.postimg.org/kpz55mgod/timur1.jpg

The fuck is that

Peterski

08-22-2017, 03:42 PM

(...)

I have ~9% of Sarmato-Scythian ancestry, not much, but probably still more than Turks: :cool:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?218760-Polish-similarity-to-ancient-samples&p=4590562&viewfull=1#post4590562

Sarmatian I0575 is also among my 8 closest samples from period 3000-1000 years ago:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?218760-Polish-similarity-to-ancient-samples&p=4590541&viewfull=1#post4590541

Pahli

08-25-2017, 01:21 AM

I have ~9% of Sarmato-Scythian ancestry, not much, but probably still more than Turks: :cool:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?218760-Polish-similarity-to-ancient-samples&p=4590562&viewfull=1#post4590562

Sarmatian I0575 is also among my 8 closest samples from period 3000-1000 years ago:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?218760-Polish-similarity-to-ancient-samples&p=4590541&viewfull=1#post4590541

A lot more than Turks lol, real scytho-sarmatians were Caucasoid, not Mongoloid lmfao.

Friends of Oliver Society

08-25-2017, 01:51 AM

This is a good example of both the good and bad of the internet. The bad is the internet allows fools an opportunity to mislead people who don't know any better. The good is that fools are easily shown to be fools by those that know better.

War Chef

08-25-2017, 01:54 AM

A Lithuanian man fucks a Pashtun woman = Scythian

or alternatively.....

A Pashtun man fucks a Lithuanian woman = Scythian

We'll never know which way it was, that's the $100000 mystery.

Pahli

08-25-2017, 02:09 AM

Demon Revival

08-25-2017, 04:55 AM

Depends in which time period of the scythians. We know early Yamnayas were 50% ANE and 50% other euro and minor stuff. Scythians were remnants of their Eastward expansion so it's likely they had other wog substratums from South Central Asia or East Asia as opposed to their westward expansion (which were Corded Ware people).

Most similar people to the first Scythians likely were some Volga people. Between the eras of the birth of Jesus and 1000 AD, the historical Scythians from Kazakhstan and nearby areas already were 25% East Asian + the additional ANE:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=43643&d=1390333370

Peoples in the antique era there were still mostly Iranic speaking, but there were many Turkics around. Between 0 and 500 AD the number of Turks gradually increased, but there were still many Iranic still around, specially in the Southern parts of Central Asia and Tarim Basin. The areas near the Caucasus and Volga started to be shift into Turkic since the Khazars, Huns and Bulgars.. After 1500 when the Mongolian invasions were over, both layers of shift were added: first with the Turks (which probably wasn't that big of a change from the current Scythians and Iranics at the time, since they had gradually absorbed Mongoloid admix too) and finally with Mongols who were almost full Mongoloids, resulting in what Central Asia is now.

Iranic nomad and Turkic history is quite intertwined.

Lucas

08-25-2017, 01:28 PM

Eastern Scythians were heavily East-asian / Turkic since early Iron Age (at least). Latest work on it shows is perfectly.

Pahli

08-25-2017, 02:21 PM

Eastern Scythians were heavily East-asian / Turkic since early Iron Age (at least). Latest work on it shows is perfectly.

Gültekin tries to prove that the East Scythians are the real Scythians even tho the Western ones were attested in history as Caucasoid with light features. It would be nice to have some Scytho-Sarmatian results from Europe, because Scythian_IA in Volga and Sarmatian_IA in Pokrovka aren't very Mongoloid in comparison to the East Scythians.

Those in South Russia, Ukraine and other parts of Europe probably still remained with little Mongoloid until the arrival of the Huns.

Turkminator

08-25-2017, 03:32 PM

gültekin

08-25-2017, 05:00 PM

A Lithuanian man fucks a Pashtun woman = Scythian

or alternatively.....

A Pashtun man fucks a Lithuanian woman = Scythian

We'll never know which way it was, that's the $100000 mystery.

Scythians had over 30% EHG.

You cannot produce a Scythian-like individual by crossbreeding modern Lithuanians and Pashtuns.

EHG (Eastern Hunter Gatherer) admixture - ASI K9

Pashtun_Afghan 11.97
Lithuanian 18.45

Scythian_IA 30.88

(11,97 + 18,45)/2=15,21 ---> FAIL

However, you can model Scythians as mix of some ancient samples (Andronovo, Karasuk, Kotias, Yamna etc)

Pahli

08-25-2017, 07:27 PM

Scythians had over 30% EHG.

You cannot produce a Scythian-like individual by crossbreeding modern Lithuanians and Pashtuns.

EHG (Eastern Hunter Gatherer) admixture - ASI K9

Pashtun_Afghan 11.97
Lithuanian 18.45

Scythian_IA 30.88

(11,97 + 18,45)/2=15,21 ---> FAIL

However, you can model Scythians as mix of some ancient samples (Andronovo, Karasuk, Kotias, Yamna etc)

We already have models of them with ancient samples; But we are talking about modern ones, no European or Central Asian population has 30% EHG, so if we use modern samples the closest thing would be a Lithuanian + Tajik, they might not get 30% EHG but they are pretty close to ancient Scythians and Sarmatians, closer than any other mix with Turkic populations involved, only Eastern Scythians are similar to Turkic people.

Smeagol

08-25-2017, 07:34 PM

Both their skulls and depictions of themselves are Nordic looking. Greeks also described them as light haired and blue eyed. The Eastern ones were mixed with Mongoloid to a degree.

Lavrentis

08-25-2017, 07:35 PM

Both their skulls and depictions of themselves are Nordic looking. Greeks also described them as light haired and blue eyed. The Eastern ones were mixed with Mongoloid to a degree.

This thread is opened by a Turkish OWDer who use to spread theories all over the anthrofora world that Turks are genetically half Greek. Ignore him.

Pahli

08-25-2017, 07:40 PM

This thread is opened by a Turkish OWDer who use to spread theories all over the anthrofora world that Turks are genetically half Greek. Ignore him.

He won't give up even though we showed him that only Eastern Scythians are Turkic, the rest are non-Turkic autosomally and linguistically, Eastern Scythians weren't even attested in history lol.

Lavrentis

08-25-2017, 07:42 PM

He won't give up even though we showed him that only Eastern Scythians are Turkic, the rest are non-Turkic autosomally and linguistically, Eastern Scythians weren't even attested in history lol.

They try to associate themsleves with anything European/non Middle Eastern possible. They hate themsleves.

I'm being completely honest here, there was a Turk on Reddit who said that his ancestors fought in the Troyan War. I will do some research to find his comment and post it here.

Root

08-25-2017, 07:46 PM

Modern-day Ossetians are the descendants of the Sarmatian Scythian tribe, nothing in common with Turkic world

Pahli

08-25-2017, 07:55 PM

Most Scytho-Sarmatians come out close to Mordvins and Erzyas and OWD Turks need to understand that lol.

Danaan

08-25-2017, 07:59 PM

Both their skulls and depictions of themselves are Nordic looking. Greeks also described them as light haired and blue eyed. The Eastern ones were mixed with Mongoloid to a degree.

Classical Greeks described a subset of what people today call 'Western Scythians' and 'Sarmatians'.

I've seen no evidence that these Scythians were Indo-European speakers. It is based on speculative pseudoetymologies.

I personally think the Greeks had contacts with speakers of Caucasian languages among others.

The tern in post-classical Greek was never used for speakers of Iranic languages but it was used quite often for speakers of Turkic languages.

Demon Revival

08-25-2017, 08:02 PM

Pahli

08-25-2017, 08:05 PM

No scythians were ever Turkic speaking. Unless you consider Sakas/Yakut as Scythians.

Genetically speaking of course.

Demon Revival

08-25-2017, 08:08 PM

Genetically speaking of course.

It is really hard to determine what is exactly Turkic and Iranic genetically. It's likely that as people are saying, Western, pre historic Scythians were mostly ANE+Euro components, and likely the Turks in Western China were more similar to mongolians at the time, but by the time historical records appearing both Turkic and nomad Iranic groups already shared lots of similarities.

What turned Central Asia into something far more mongoloid weren't Turks by themselves, but Mongolians and Manchurians who originally were their leaders and settled en masse along them. The initial change from Iranic to Turkic was not that drastic in physical appearance.

gültekin

08-25-2017, 08:12 PM

This thread is opened by a Turkish OWDer who use to spread theories all over the anthrofora world that Turks are genetically half Greek. Ignore him.

Why do Semite-mixed people tend to lie a lot?

If you can't prove what you say, you are a shameless son of a bitch. It was Greeks and a few other members who were eager to interpret my oracle results as "half-Greek"

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?168197-G%FCltekin-s-FTDNA-MyOrigins-Results

Scholarios:
HELLO my GREEK Brother. Or should I say GIA SOU

Longbowman:
Turkmen + Greek = Turk. Cool mix

Me:
do you mean the Azov-Greek? Azov is in Crimia, i think they are just hellenized kipchaks or something , because its came with the Tatars. checkout my MDLP World Oracle result 1.match is Tatar , 2. Azov 3. Turk 4. Nogai etc.

Scholarios:
Well, it's more like both your grandpa and grandma given those percentages. Either that or your mom is at Least half Greek or Sicilian.

Me:
My great grandmother was a Bithynian princess you peasant Yunanlı , kneel down

Casandrinos: You're more than half raped Greeks

Casandrinos:
durks are the proof that Greek continuity is striking as you have our DNA in your raped genome and get matches from Greece.

Scholarios:
Ok- you can call it whatever your tour guides call it to deceive western visitors" Roman" or " native Anatolian"

Now, stop being fucking liar and spreading false information about me, it was your Greek friends who were eager to make me "half-Greek" even though South European-like part of my results clearly reflected my native Northwest Anatolian (Bithynian ancestry). Raine was also one of them.

Your pathetic people want to be related to me.

Lavrentis

08-25-2017, 08:15 PM

Why do Semite-mixed people tend to lie a lot?

If you can't prove what you say, you are a shameless son of a bitch. It was Greeks and a few other members who were eager to interpret my oracle results as "half-Greek," read this thread carefully even though I clearly explained that South-Euro like part of my results were native Northwest Anatolian.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?168197-G%FCltekin-s-FTDNA-MyOrigins-Results

Scholarios:
HELLO my GREEK Brother. Or should I say GIA SOU

Longbowman:
Turkmen + Greek = Turk. Cool mix

Me:
do you mean the Azov-Greek? Azov is in Crimia, i think they are just hellenized kipchaks or something , because its came with the Tatars. checkout my MDLP World Oracle result 1.match is Tatar , 2. Azov 3. Turk 4. Nogai etc.

Scholarios:
Well, it's more like both your grandpa and grandma given those percentages. Either that or your mom is at Least half Greek or Sicilian.

Me:
My great grandmother was a Bithynian princess you peasant Yunanlı , kneel down

You shameless faggot. Stop spreading false information about me, it was your Greek friends who were eager to make me "half-Greek" even though South European-like part of my results clearly reflected my native Northwest Anatolian (Bithynian ancestry)

Scholarios is a troll. The dude has said that Greeks are Slavicized. His existance in this Forum is based on trolling Hellenas, Raine etc.

gültekin

08-25-2017, 08:28 PM

Scholarios is a troll. The dude has said that Greeks are Slavicized. His existance in this Forum is based on trolling Hellenas, Raine etc.

Casandrinos, Raine, Scholarios, Kabeiras etc all of them were eager to interpret my oracle results as "half-Greek", they were so fucking eager to be related to me even though I despised them and denied any relationship. :laugh:

Read your compatriots' posts carefully and be fucking ashamed. Greeks on this forum want to be related to Turks and I can prove this by quoting their posts. Do you want me to quote their other posts?

Lavrentis

08-25-2017, 08:33 PM

Casandrinos, Raine, Scholarios, Kabeiras etc all of them were eager to interpret my oracle results as "half-Greek", they were so fucking eager to be related to me even though I despised them and denied any relationship. :laugh:

Read your compatriots' posts carefully and be fucking ashamed. Greeks on this forum want to be related to Turks and I can prove this by quoting their posts. Do you want me to quote their other posts?

I'm pretty sure you are going to quote all the trolls like Scholarios or that banned retard Casandrinos.

I don't see any Greek here who wants to be related to Turks. Instead, you have Turks here like TheGhostface/Gizem who are the definition of a Turk obsessed with Europe. Also that other retard 'mesjie' who from what I've seen from old threads, used to say that Greeks have similar culture and food with Turks. Why can't Turks realize that it's only Anatolian Greeks who have anything to do with you and not native Greeks?

Vlatko Vukovic

11-15-2017, 08:14 PM

Why are Slavs (such as davidski) obsessed with people whom they have nothing to do with? Russians and especially the Poles were the ones who were filling our heads with propagandas like "Scythians resembled Slavs". Turned out they did not resemble Slavs at all. Thanks to Davidski's propaganda most people still believe that Scythians resembled Slavs even after the discovery of Scythian genomes from all over the steppe corridor.

Slavs are connected just with 2 branches of Scythians: Sarmatians and Budini. And they looked more Europoid then any other...

Smeagol

11-15-2017, 08:17 PM

Scythians had nothing to do with Turks and western Scythians were obviously European.

Vlatko Vukovic

11-15-2017, 08:20 PM

Scythians had nothing to do with Turks and western Scythians were obviously European.

I don't know have they something to do with Turks. but I know that Western part of Scythians were full Europoids!

Babak

11-15-2017, 10:53 PM

jingorex

11-15-2017, 11:16 PM

It's very likely that Scythians brought europeans the Arthurian cycle along with the first heavy horse mounted knights.

see: From Scythia to Camelot: A Radical Reassessment of the Legends of King Arthur, the Knights of the Round Table, and the Holy Grail (Arthurian Characters and Themes) 2nd Edition

Leto

11-15-2017, 11:36 PM

I think Western Scythians of South Ukraine and the Volga-Don region were somewhere between Russians and North Caucasians. Obviously lighter than any modern Iranic-speaking group.

Leto

11-15-2017, 11:42 PM

https://images.nature.com/m685/nature-assets/ncomms/2017/170303/ncomms14615/images/ncomms14615-f7.jpg

Scholarios

11-22-2017, 06:46 AM

I'm pretty sure you are going to quote all the trolls like Scholarios or that banned retard Casandrinos.

I don't see any Greek here who wants to be related to Turks. Instead, you have Turks here like TheGhostface/Gizem who are the definition of a Turk obsessed with Europe. Also that other retard 'mesjie' who from what I've seen from old threads, used to say that Greeks have similar culture and food with Turks. Why can't Turks realize that it's only Anatolian Greeks who have anything to do with you and not native Greeks?

I troll you too. Now go put yourself in the same team with losers such as this pudgy Anatolian thread starter. ( a guy who gets Greek and Sicliian in his top 10.) I don't care what they are, or you. Just that youre a low iq blockhead.

Why do Semite-mixed people tend to lie a lot?

If you can't prove what you say, you are a shameless son of a bitch. It was Greeks and a few other members who were eager to interpret my oracle results as "half-Greek"

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?168197-G%FCltekin-s-FTDNA-MyOrigins-Results

Scholarios:
HELLO my GREEK Brother. Or should I say GIA SOU

Longbowman:
Turkmen + Greek = Turk. Cool mix

Me:
do you mean the Azov-Greek? Azov is in Crimia, i think they are just hellenized kipchaks or something , because its came with the Tatars. checkout my MDLP World Oracle result 1.match is Tatar , 2. Azov 3. Turk 4. Nogai etc.

Scholarios:
Well, it's more like both your grandpa and grandma given those percentages. Either that or your mom is at Least half Greek or Sicilian.

Me:
My great grandmother was a Bithynian princess you peasant Yunanlı , kneel down

Casandrinos: You're more than half raped Greeks

Casandrinos:
durks are the proof that Greek continuity is striking as you have our DNA in your raped genome and get matches from Greece.

Scholarios:
Ok- you can call it whatever your tour guides call it to deceive western visitors" Roman" or " native Anatolian"

Now, stop being fucking liar and spreading false information about me, it was your Greek friends who were eager to make me "half-Greek" even though South European-like part of my results clearly reflected my native Northwest Anatolian (Bithynian ancestry). Raine was also one of them.

Your pathetic people want to be related to me.

damn, that's pathetic , even for a Greco-Uzbek identitarian such as yourself. You should be proud. You are descendant of Greek rape victims and traitors/converts.

Loki

11-22-2017, 10:43 AM

Does this Scythian from Kazakhstan look European to you? :confused:

Berel’, Kazakhstan 4th–3rd c. BCE

Obviously of mixed parentage.

Original Scythians were blonde, blue-eyed, European-looking.

Tauromachos

11-22-2017, 10:55 AM

Obviously of mixed parentage.

Original Scythians were blonde, blue-eyed, European-looking.

At least they were described as such by ancient Greek authors.

Either as blond or in the cases of some tribes such as the Budini as redhaired with blue
eyes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budini

Herodotus describes the Budini people, east of the Ister (Danube) River, thusly: [4.108] The Budini are a large and powerful nation: They all have deep blue eyes, and bright red hair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair). There is a town in their country called Gelonus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelonus) which is made out of wood. Each side of its high outer wall is thirty stades long, made entirely of wood, and wood has been used for all its houses and shrines too. They have sanctuaries there which are dedicated to the Greek gods and equipped in the Greek manner with statues, altars and buildings of wood; and every third year they celebrate a festival of Dionysus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus) and become possessed by the god. The Budini, however, differ from the Gelonians in both language and lifestyle. The Budinians, who are nomadic, are the indigenous inhabitants of the country, and they are the only race there to eat lice, whereas the Gelonians are farmers, grain-eaters and gardeners; moreover, the two sets of people are altogether dissimilar in appearance and colouring.... The land is entirely covered with forests of every conceivable species of tree. In the largest forest there is a large, wide lake, surrounded by a reedy marsh. They capture otters and beavers in this lake, and also a square-faced creature whose skin they sew as a trimming on to their jackets, and whose testicles are good for healing diseases of the womb.

Danaan

11-23-2017, 03:11 AM

At least they were described as such by ancient Greek authors.

Either as blond or in the cases of some tribes such as the Budini as redhaired with blue
eyes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budini

Actually, as far as I remember they aren't labeled 'Scythians'. (and that's the reason various people have speculated they were Uralic or even Slavic)

Basically the term 'Scythian' as it used today is too broad.

Since you have posted that, it is obvious from the text that the difference in colouring between Gelonians (mostly Hellenes according to Herodotus, probably partly Scythian) and Budini was big but I would infer that Budini were even lighter than average 'Scythians'.

Note though: "They all have deep blue eyes, and bright red hair. "

^ That translation is free. The words 'deep', 'eyes', 'bright', 'hair' do not exist in the text.

The text literally says they are a group very 'glaukon' and 'purron'. The first depending on the context meant 'gleaming' to 'blue/gray' and the second although it usually translated as 'red' (LSJ more accurately gives the following: 'flame-coloured', 'yellowish-red'), it was used with a more broad meaning (for example it could have been used even for the color of the lions and in that case they translate it as 'tawny').

Color terms aren't exact and don't always have exact modern day equivalents.

When I read it, I imagined them to have been Udmurt-like but for the reasons above the exact meaning is not self-evident.

Norka

11-23-2017, 03:17 AM

why are these balkan and anatolian gypsies obsessed with Scythians and Finnougrians? xD

Simple answer they are in deep identity crysis so they try and relate to people they have no real connection to. Why Scythians I don't know just a bunch of dudes on horses who got fucked up in history.

Pahli

11-23-2017, 03:27 AM

OP is an autistic 40 year old retard with huge identity crisis;

Its obvious Scythians have nothing to do with neither Turks or most Iranians except for Central Asians, they were basically drug addicted alcoholic Baltic + Pashtun savages xD

Kouros

11-23-2017, 03:34 AM

Scythian man from Nikopol reconstruction.

http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/pic%5CS%5CC%5CScythian%20man%20from%20Nikopol%20ku rhan%20(reconstruction).jpg

This guy looks Tatar as fuck to me lol

Kouros

11-23-2017, 03:36 AM

Why is Lollipop banned? That guys posts are comedy gold...

Pahli

11-23-2017, 03:45 AM

This guy looks Tatar as fuck to me lol

I agree that Volga Tatars bear some resemblance to Scythians, even genetically;

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_Europe 47.19
2 West_Asia 24.04
3 SW_Europe 13.65
4 Siberia 6.75
5 South_Asia 3.11
6 Americas 3.02
7 NE_Asia 1.25
8 SE_Asia 0.98

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tatar 13.67
2 Chuvash 18.02
3 Mordovian 18.65
4 Moldavian 20.39
5 Ukrainian 20.91

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.3% Mordovian + 37.7% Tadjik @ 7.16
2 51.8% Latvian + 48.2% Tadjik @ 7.24
3 51.9% Lithuanian + 48.1% Tadjik @ 7.38
4 58.5% Russian + 41.5% Tadjik @ 7.41
5 67.8% Mordovian + 32.2% Afghan_Pashtun @ 7.44

But they are not completely the same, Tatars usually have twice as much East Eurasian than this sample, Western Scytho-Sarmatians rarely scored above 10%

Tauromachos

11-23-2017, 03:45 AM

Actually, as far as I remember they aren't labeled 'Scythians'. (and that's the reason various people have speculated they were Uralic or even Slavic)

Basically the term 'Scythian' as it used today is too broad.

There was not such thing as ancient Slavic people.

Slavic is an identity which came into existence later they are a younger group of people and they probably came from these Europid looking part
of Scythians who lived in Europe.´correct but they were not Slavs at that time.

Scythians were nomadic Steppe related people that lived in the Eurasian continental plates.

So yes there were also Scythians in Asia with more Turkic like admixture its actualy likely that Turk people came just from another group
of Asian Scythian people.

Scythians in Asia went as far as India.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Scythians

Indo-Scythians is a term used to refer to Scythians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians) (Sakas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saka)), who migrated into parts of central, northern and western South Asia (Sogdiana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sogdiana), Bactria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bactria), Arachosia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachosia), Gandhara (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhara), Sindh (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindh), Kashmir (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir), Punjab (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punjab_region), Haryana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haryana), Rajasthan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajasthan), Gujarat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gujarat) and Maharashtra (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharashtra)) from the middle of the 2nd century BC to the 4th century AD.
The first Saka king in south Asia was Maues (Moga) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maues) (1st century BC) who established Saka power in Gandhara (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhara) (modern day Pakistan and Afghanistan region) and gradually extended supremacy over north-western India. Indo-Scythian rule in northwestern India ended with the last Western Satrap (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Satrap) Rudrasimha III (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudrasimha_III) in 395 CE who was defeated by the Indian Emperor Chandragupta II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_II) of the Gupta Empire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gupta_Empire).[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Scythians#cite_note-1) The power of the Saka rulers started to decline in the 2nd century CE after the Indo-Scythians were defeated by the south Indian Emperor Gautamiputra Satakarni (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautamiputra_Satakarni) of the Satavahana dynasty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satavahana_dynasty).[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Scythians#cite_note-2)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Scythians#cite_note-3) Later the Saka kingdom was completely destroyed by Chandragupta II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_II) of the Gupta Empire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gupta_Empire) in the 4th century.[ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Scythians#cite_note-4)

The existence of an own Indian subclade of R1a in India provides evidence for that.

As a whole Scythians were not a phenotypical homogenous group but some Scythian tribes were definetly blond and Europid or better even Northern looking.

Kouros

11-23-2017, 03:49 AM

I agree that Volga Tatars bear some resemblance to Scythians, even genetically;

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_Europe 47.19
2 West_Asia 24.04
3 SW_Europe 13.65
4 Siberia 6.75
5 South_Asia 3.11
6 Americas 3.02
7 NE_Asia 1.25
8 SE_Asia 0.98

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tatar 13.67
2 Chuvash 18.02
3 Mordovian 18.65
4 Moldavian 20.39
5 Ukrainian 20.91

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.3% Mordovian + 37.7% Tadjik @ 7.16
2 51.8% Latvian + 48.2% Tadjik @ 7.24
3 51.9% Lithuanian + 48.1% Tadjik @ 7.38
4 58.5% Russian + 41.5% Tadjik @ 7.41
5 67.8% Mordovian + 32.2% Afghan_Pashtun @ 7.44

But they are not completely the same, Tatars usually have twice as much East Eurasian than this sample, Western Scytho-Sarmatians rarely scored above 10%

Btw dude now that I have you here you see how it says

South_Asia 3.11

Is the 'South_Asia' here PRE-Aryan invasion or POST-Aryan invasion? I'm asking because I want to know if this is popping up as a result of South Asian admixture in Scythians or Scythian admixture in South Asians. Which one is it?

Pahli

11-23-2017, 03:52 AM

Btw dude now that I have you here you see how it says

South_Asia 3.11

Is the 'South_Asia' here PRE-Aryan invasion or POST-Aryan invasion? I'm asking because I want to know if this is popping up as a result of South Asian admixture in Scythians or Scythian admixture in South Asians. Which one is it?

They picked it up from Central Asia, it was home to farmers that resembled Neolithic Iranians;

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 77.14
2 South_Asia 14.58
3 SW_Asia 4.38
4 West_Africa 2.96
5 Oceania 0.71
6 East_Africa 0.23

Kouros

11-23-2017, 04:12 AM

They picked it up from Central Asia, it was home to farmers that resembled Neolithic Iranians;

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 77.14
2 South_Asia 14.58
3 SW_Asia 4.38
4 West_Africa 2.96
5 Oceania 0.71
6 East_Africa 0.23

So they actually had South Asian ancestry? Sorry if I sound like a dumbfuck lol

Danaan

11-23-2017, 04:12 AM

Actually, as far as I remember they aren't labeled 'Scythians'. (and that's the reason various people have speculated they were Uralic or even Slavic)

Basically the term 'Scythian' as it used today is too broad.

Since you have posted that, it is obvious from the text that the difference in colouring between Gelonians (mostly Hellenes according to Herodotus, probably partly Scythian) and Budini was big but I would infer that Budini were even lighter than average 'Scythians'.

Note though: "They all have deep blue eyes, and bright red hair. "

^ That translation is free. The words 'deep', 'eyes', 'bright', 'hair' do not exist in the text.

The text literally says they are a group very 'glaukon' and 'purron'. The first depending on the context meant 'gleaming' to 'blue/gray' and the second although it usually translated as 'red' (LSJ more accurately gives the following: 'flame-coloured', 'yellowish-red'), it was used with a more broad meaning (for example it could have been used even for the color of the lions and in that case they translate it as 'tawny').

Color terms aren't exact and don't always have exact modern day equivalents.

When I read it, I imagined them to have been Udmurt-like but for the reasons above the exact meaning is not self-evident.

-----------

Also the translator is wrong when he writes Budini 'eat lice'. When I read it the first time I thought 'What an idiot!'
It is about pine nuts, basically about 'the seed of a kind of pine' (btw proto-Uralic has a reconstructed root for 'Siberian pine')

Pahli

11-23-2017, 04:20 AM

So they actually had South Asian ancestry? Sorry if I sound like a dumbfuck lol

A little but yes, I'd rather call it admixture since still were dominantly Indo-Iranian genetically, but Pomiris in East Tajikistan are believed to be descendent from them:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 33.77
2 NE_Europe 27.96
3 South_Asia 14.64
4 SW_Europe 11.15
5 Siberia 3.9
6 NE_Asia 2.91
7 Americas 2.89
8 SW_Asia 1.77
9 East_Africa 0.63
10 South_Africa 0.37

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tadjik 8.8
2 Afghan_Pashtun 14.61
3 Afghan_Uzbeki 16.3
4 Kumyk 16.66

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.4% Afghan_Pashtun + 26.6% Mordovian @ 3.62
2 74.7% Afghan_Pashtun + 25.3% Russian @ 3.84
3 76.9% Afghan_Pashtun + 23.1% Estonian @ 4.16
4 77.2% Afghan_Pashtun + 22.8% Lithuanian @ 4.23
5 77.3% Afghan_Pashtun + 22.7% Latvian @ 4.27

Hadouken

11-23-2017, 04:27 AM

A little but yes, I'd rather call it admixture since still were dominantly Indo-Iranian genetically, but Pomiris in East Tajikistan are believed to be descendent from them:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 33.77
2 NE_Europe 27.96
3 South_Asia 14.64
4 SW_Europe 11.15
5 Siberia 3.9
6 NE_Asia 2.91
7 Americas 2.89
8 SW_Asia 1.77
9 East_Africa 0.63
10 South_Africa 0.37

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tadjik 8.8
2 Afghan_Pashtun 14.61
3 Afghan_Uzbeki 16.3
4 Kumyk 16.66

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.4% Afghan_Pashtun + 26.6% Mordovian @ 3.62
2 74.7% Afghan_Pashtun + 25.3% Russian @ 3.84
3 76.9% Afghan_Pashtun + 23.1% Estonian @ 4.16
4 77.2% Afghan_Pashtun + 22.8% Lithuanian @ 4.23
5 77.3% Afghan_Pashtun + 22.7% Latvian @ 4.27

is this a scythian result ?

Jovan Vladimir

11-23-2017, 04:28 AM

Scythians were light pigmented white people and not mongoloids, they were holders of R1a.

Kouros

11-23-2017, 04:32 AM

Kouros

11-23-2017, 04:32 AM

is this a scythian result ?

Pomiri I think

Hadouken

11-23-2017, 04:34 AM

So is South_Asia = to Australoid? If not, what population is the most 'South_Asian'?

no. "south asia" or "south asian" in most calculators is only 1/3 or so australoid

the ASE of Ancient Eurasia K6 , Eurasia K9 ASI , and other calcs with ASE = australoid

Pahli

11-23-2017, 04:35 AM

is this a scythian result ?

Pomiri result from Rushan in Eastern Tajikistan

So is South_Asia = to Australoid? If not, what population is the most 'South_Asian'?

South Asian = Mixed CHG + Australoid, something like 60/40, so 60% of the South Asian admixture would be CHG and the other 40% would be Australoid.

Hadouken

11-23-2017, 04:37 AM

Pomiri result from Rushan in Eastern Tajikistan

South Asian = Mixed CHG + Australoid, something like 50/50, so half of the South Asian admixture would be CHG and the other would be Australoid.

cool I get 75% Armenian + 25% tajik pomiri

-

btw. south asian is not 50 50 . that applies for "s.indian" but not "south asian" . it is more 1/3 in that case

Kouros

11-23-2017, 04:38 AM

Pomiri result from Rushan in Eastern Tajikistan

South Asian = Mixed CHG + Australoid, something like 60/40, so 60% of the South Asian admixture would be CHG and the other 40% would be Australoid.

Oh ok, thanks dude. Is there like a site or something that explains what each component 'NE_Asia', 'Siberia' etc is tracking exactly? Really want to know.

Pahli

11-23-2017, 04:39 AM

cool I get 75% Armenian + 25% tajik pomiri

-

btw. south asian is not 50 50 . that applies for "s.indian" but not "south asian" . it is more 1/3 in that case

And Tajik Pomiri are 50% Andronovo, so we are basically 12 - 15% ancient Indo-Iranian or 25% recent Indo-Iranian xD

Oh ok, thanks dude. Is there like a site or something that explains what each component 'NE_Asia', 'Siberia' etc is tracking exactly? Really want to know.

Not sure but some threads explained which components that peak in specific populations.

Jovan Vladimir

11-23-2017, 04:40 AM

Name Scythians derivated from Serbian word Skitanje which mean wanderings.

itilvolga

11-23-2017, 05:00 AM

Jovan Vladimir

11-23-2017, 05:01 AM

Tauromachos

11-23-2017, 05:05 AM

Name Scythians derivated from Serbian word Skitanje which mean wanderings.

Sorry no offense but i think Scythian languages are older than modern Serbian.

It makes more sense when you say Serbian comes from an ancient Scythian language

itilvolga

11-23-2017, 05:08 AM

Scythians were Slavic, and they were R1a as me.

R1a is not only belong to Slavics boi

Mingle

11-23-2017, 05:08 AM

Name Scythians derivated from Serbian word Skitanje which mean wanderings.

The -ian is an English suffix ultimately of Greek origin, so that alone makes your theory unlikely. It's similar to Bulgarian, Serbian, etc. and not part of the root word.

The word "Skyth" comes from Greek Σκύθης (Skúthēs) which comes from Scythian *Skuδat which means "to propel or shoot". The Scyths were famous for being archers, so that's where the word could have came from.

Mingle

11-23-2017, 05:11 AM

Scythians; sons of Magog were purely Euro-Mongol Turks. Look at Runic Writings in Issyk Kurgan

You Öropeans can't understand wth does it mean but i can, because Scythians were Turks and their language was Turkic.
https://i.hizliresim.com/qJaG7Z.jpg

Magog is a fictional character.

The Scythian language has already been agreed upon in the linguistics community to have been an East Iranian language (or group of languages).

Btw, Germanics also wrote in runes before.

itilvolga

11-23-2017, 05:27 AM

Magog is a fictional character.

The Scythian language has already been deciphered and is agreed upon in the linguistics community to have been an East Iranian language (or group of languages).

Btw, Germanics also wrote in runes before.

Because Germenics are kinda related with us from Andronovo

I am waiting for some Europeans and Persians who can understand this. Also Turks can write as well, i bet most of Turks will understand generally what is this about

https://i.hizliresim.com/jQa6P9.jpg

Jovan Vladimir

11-23-2017, 05:27 AM

Sorry no offense but i think Scythian languages are older than modern Serbian.

It makes more sense when you say Serbian comes from an ancient Scythian language

https://www.indifferentlanguages.com/words/vagabond/serbian

https://youtu.be/A7P45jiysHE

MagnusAurelius

11-23-2017, 05:31 AM

http://www.ancientpages.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/scythians004.jpg

http://topnews.in/files/mummy.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gwpcQEF6cpw/U6WnPwaa86I/AAAAAAAAB0s/eIojIWn90WY/s1600/scythian.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians#Genetics

They were a diverse group and many sources describe them as having light features.

Jovan Vladimir

11-23-2017, 05:49 AM

The -ian is an English suffix ultimately of Greek origin, so that alone makes your theory unlikely. It's similar to Bulgarian, Serbian, etc. and not part of the root word.

The word "Skyth" comes from Greek Σκύθης (Skúthēs) which comes from Scythian *Skuδat which means "to propel or shoot". The Scyths were famous for being archers, so that's where the word could have came from.

In Serbian, Croatian and Bulgarian Skitnica mean Vagabond https://www.indifferentlanguages.com/words/vagabond/serbian and Scythians were nomadic people, it's not a coincidence.

Bulgarian song

https://youtu.be/EbJlatnCCKE

Croatian song

https://youtu.be/s5de17aNsd4

Mingle

11-23-2017, 05:54 AM

In Serbian, Croatian and Bulgarian Skitnica mean Vagabond https://www.indifferentlanguages.com/words/vagabond/serbian and Scythians were nomadic people, it's not a coincidence.

Bulgarian song

https://youtu.be/EbJlatnCCKE

Croatian song

https://youtu.be/s5de17aNsd4

It's a coincidence: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Scythian#Etymology

It makes no sense for the -ian suffix to have come from Slavic when it's a Greek (and later Latin) suffix whereas the Slavic suffix is -sk.

Tauromachos

11-23-2017, 05:57 AM

R1a is not only belong to Slavics boi

We can agree that Scythians included ancestors of Turkic people and of alot of modern European people as well.

Since they were basicly what is called here Steppe people.

And Turkics were certainly a group of Steppe people also

Jovan Vladimir

11-23-2017, 05:58 AM

We can agree that Scythians included ancestors of Turkic people and of alot of modern European people as well.

Since they were basicly what is called here Steppe people.

And Turkics were certainly a group of Steppe people also

Some Turkic people are bastards of Scythians, similar such as Mexicans are bastards of Spaniard conquistadors. :coffee:

Tauromachos

11-23-2017, 05:59 AM

Turkic people are bastards of Scythians. :coffee:

Lol whatever argue with Turks about that :)

Mingle

11-23-2017, 06:02 AM

Because Germenics are kinda related with us from Andronovo

I am waiting for some Europeans and Persians who can understand this. Also Turks can write as well, i bet most of Turks will understand generally what is this about

https://i.hizliresim.com/jQa6P9.jpg

The Greek historian Herodotus provides another source of Scythian; he reports that the Scythians called the Amazons Oiorpata, and explains the name as a compound of oior, meaning "man", and pata, meaning "to kill" (Hist. 4,110).

Most scholars associate oior "man" with Avestan vīra- "man, hero", Sanskrit vīra-, Latin vir (gen. virī) "man, hero, husband",[14] PIE *u̯iHro-. Various explanations account for pata "kill":
Avestan paiti- "lord", Sanskrit pati-, PIE *poti-, cf. Lat. potestate (i.e. "man-ruler");[15]
Ossetian maryn "kill", Pashto mrəl, Sanskrit mārayati, PIE *mer- "die" (confusion of Greek Μ and Π);[16]
Ossetian fædyn "cleave", Sanskrit pātayati "fell", PIE *peth₂- "fall".[17]
Alternatively, one scholar suggests Iranian aiwa- "one" + warah- "breast",[18] the Amazons believed to have removed a breast to aid drawing a bow, according to some ancient folklorists, and as reflected in Greek folk-etymology: a- (privative) + mazos, "without breast".
Elsewhere Herodotus explains the name of the mythical one-eyed tribe Arimaspoi as a compound of the Scythian words arima, meaning "one", and spu, meaning "eye" (Hist. 4,27).

Some scholars connect arima "one" with Ossetian ærmæst "only", Avestic airime "quiet", Greek erēmos "empty", PIE *h₁(e)rh₁mo-?, and spu "eye" with Avestic spas- "foretell", Sanskrit spaś-, PIE *speḱ- "see".[19]
However, Iranian usually expresses "one" and "eye" with words like aiwa- and čašman- (Ossetian īw and cæst).
Other scholars reject Herodotus' etymology and derive the ethnonym Arimaspoi from Iranian aspa- "horse" instead.[20]
Or the first part of the name may reflect something like Iranian raiwant- "rich", cf. Ossetian riwæ "rich".[21]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_languages

All the etymologies of Scythian words are connected to other Iranian languages by scholars.

Where do you think the Ossetian language come from btw? It's mostly agreed upon to have come from Sarmatian.

Jovan Vladimir

11-23-2017, 06:03 AM

Lol whatever argue with Turks about that :)

Scythians raped mongoloid women and on that way proto-Turks were created.

Bosniensis

11-23-2017, 06:35 AM

Scythians mixed with European people, I don't see how they are being associated with Europeans except in a negative context.

Jovan Vladimir

11-23-2017, 06:45 AM

Scythians mixed with European people, I don't see how they are being associated with Europeans except in a negative context.

Scythians were Europeans, and predominantly Nordids.

itilvolga

11-23-2017, 06:46 AM

Scythians raped mongoloid women and on that way proto-Turks were created.

You wouldn't like to discuss who is whose bastard.
https://i.hizliresim.com/yzvqzk.jpg

Also Scythians lived between 10th century BC - 250 BC, Turks existed during 20th century BC so it's impossible

Tauromachos

11-23-2017, 06:48 AM

Scythians mixed with European people, I don't see how they are being associated with Europeans except in a negative context.

You look like you are mixed with Scythian

Jovan Vladimir

11-23-2017, 06:51 AM

You wouldn't like to discuss who is whose bastard.
https://i.hizliresim.com/yzvqzk.jpg

Also Scythians lived between 10th century BC - 250 BC, Turks existed during 20th century BC so it's impossible :picard1:

I don't realize what is the point of your map.

You claims that Turks are older than Scythians, do you know that the first mention of Turks was in 6th centuy AD? :coffee:

itilvolga

11-23-2017, 07:10 AM

I don't realize what is the point of your map.

You claims that Turks are older than Scythians, do you know that the first mention of Turks was in 6th centuy AD? :coffee:

We used the word of "Turk" later but it doesn't mean that we existed during 6th Century AD lol we built Kok-Turk Khaganete during that time, even before it Turks were there with Asian Hun Empire. Mete Xan was a Turkic Hero who is Teoman's son, he was born in 234 BC for example

Jovan Vladimir

11-23-2017, 07:25 AM

We used the word of "Turk" later but it doesn't mean that we existed during 6th Century AD lol we built Kok-Turk Khaganete during that time, even before it Turks were there with Asian Hun Empire. Mete Xan was a Turkic Hero who is Teoman's son, he was born in 234 BC for example

In ancient period Turks were not lived in central Asia.
Central Asia in ancient time was populated by caucasoid Iranic speaeking people people such as Scythians, Sarmatians and Tocharians, in that period Turks or proto-Turks (semi-mongoloid) lived in southern Siberia (Altay) and Mongolia.
Turks settled central Asia in 6th century AD.

Do you know for example that Uyghurs came in Xinjiang in 6th century AD from southern Siberia and destroyed caucasoid Iranic speaking Tocharians?
Some Tocharians which survived are assimilatted by Uyghurs.

Red haired mummies from Tarim basin are Tocharians.

itilvolga

11-23-2017, 07:32 AM

In ancient period Turks were not lived in central Asia.
Central Asia in ancient time was populated by caucasoid Iranic speaeking people people such as Scythians, Sarmatians and Tocharians, in that period Turks or proto-Turks (semi-mongoloid) lived in southern Siberia (Altay) and Mongolia.
Turks settled central Asia in 6th century AD.

Do you know for example that Uyghurs came in Xinjiang in 6th century AD from southern Siberia and destroyed caucasoid Iranic speaking Tocharians?
Some Tocharians which survived are assimilatted by Uyghurs.

Red haired mummies from Tarim basin are Tocharians.

No, we still had tribes in Central Asia. Also did you know that a Kazakh family: Niyazovs have the oldest dna results and most of Europeans carry same haplogroups with them? If we didn't live in same place before, how it would be possible? Öropids had Turkic blood when they arrived at Europe, that's a fact.

Mortimer

11-23-2017, 08:40 AM

Great thread gültekin

Babak

11-23-2017, 03:05 PM

Ossetian-Direct descendant of scythian and probably what it most likely sounded like

The Ossetians descend from the Alans,[21] a Sarmatian tribe (Scythian subgroup of the Iranian ethnolinguistic group).[22] About AD 200, the Alans were the only branch of the Sarmatians to keep their culture in the face of a Gothic invasion, and the Alans remaining built up a great kingdom between the Don and the Volga, according to Coon, The Races of Europe. Between AD. 350 and 374, the Huns destroyed the Alan kingdom, and a few survive to this day in the Caucasus as the Ossetes.

The Ossetian language belongs to the Eastern Iranian (Alanic) branch of the Indo-European language family.[21]
Ossetian is divided into two main dialect groups: Ironian[21] (os. – Ирон) in North and South Ossetia and Digorian[21] (os. – Дыгурон) of western North Ossetia. There are some subdialects in those two: like Tualian, Alagirian, Ksanian, etc. The Ironian dialect is the most widely spoken.
Ossetian is among the remnants of the Scytho-Sarmatian dialect group which was once spoken across the Steppe. The Ossetian language is not mutually intelligible with any other Iranian language.[15

Veslan

11-23-2017, 03:45 PM

Look at this thread for example: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?218480-The-Great-Cuckold-Story-Of-The-Jatt-Caste-In-India-Product-Of-Big-White-Men-Breeding-Indian-Women!

According to the creater of the topic Scythians were modern European-looking guys who invaded India and mated with brown indians. Is that really the case? I thought the myth of Scythians being modern European-like in terms of looks and genetics was debunked?

Does this Scythian from Kazakhstan look European to you? :confused:

Berel’, Kazakhstan 4th–3rd c. BCE

# Population Percent
1 Siberian_E_Asian 29.19
2 SE_Asian 21.15
3 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 16.35
4 WHG 14.17
5 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 10.65
6 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 4.57
7 Ancestral_South_Indian 3.41
8 SW_Asian 0.52

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 RISE_irRus 16.68
2 Kyrgyz 17.07
3 Altaian 19.05
4 Uygur 19.21
5 Uzbek 19.33
6 Hazara 20.12
7 RISE_irAltai 20.39
8 Turkmen_Afghan 23.78
9 RISE_baKarasuk 25.88
10 Turkmen 26.59
11 Hazara_Afghan 28.51
12 Tatars 29.72
13 Scythian_IA 36.68
14 Uzbek_Afghan 36.73
15 Tajik_Afghan 37.35
16 Ust_Ishim 40.89
17 RISE_baMezh 41.58
18 Tajik_Pomiri 43.2
19 Russian 44.72
20 Sherpa 44.82

Not even westernmost Scythians who were predominantly West Eurasian resembled modern Europeans, they were EHG/CHG-rich folk with substantial East Eurasian admixture.

Fake imaginary Scythians drawn by whg/neolithic europeans. LOL Davidski from Eurogenes made so much propaganda about Scythians being European-like that even after the discovery of real Scythian genomes people still think that they were modern European-like (whg+neolithic). No they were not you fucking idiots.
http://i.imgur.com/HrGRUdb.jpg

REAL SCYTHIAN :laugh:
Berel’, Kazakhstan 4th–3rd c. BCE

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Siberian_E_Asian 29.19
2 SE_Asian 21.15
3 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 16.35
4 WHG 14.17
5 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 10.65
6 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 4.57
7 Ancestral_South_Indian 3.41
8 SW_Asian 0.52

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 RISE_irRus 16.68
2 Kyrgyz 17.07
3 Altaian 19.05
4 Uygur 19.21
5 Uzbek 19.33
6 Hazara 20.12
7 RISE_irAltai 20.39
8 Turkmen_Afghan 23.78
9 RISE_baKarasuk 25.88
10 Turkmen 26.59
11 Hazara_Afghan 28.51
12 Tatars 29.72
13 Scythian_IA 36.68
14 Uzbek_Afghan 36.73
15 Tajik_Afghan 37.35
16 Ust_Ishim 40.89
17 RISE_baMezh 41.58
18 Tajik_Pomiri 43.2
19 Russian 44.72
20 Sherpa 44.82

Hardcore cherrypicking typical for turanist imbeciles, combined with typical autotardness "lol has some meme-cluster like "siberian", therefore not white!".
Scythians, as Andronovo descendants were R1a Europoids with high frequency of light hair and eyes.
https://i.imgur.com/1ZyB1ut.png
http://i.imgur.com/PvE7RFR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BjiBq1h.jpg
"The Scythians themselves, under the influence of powerful Greek colonies on the north shore of the Black Sea, and particularly in the Crimea, produced a dis tinctive style of realistic art in gold repoussée. These tepresentations in-clude a number of portraits of Scythians in very realistic and life-like poses. They show a well-defined type of heavily bearded, long-haired men with prominent, often convex, noses. The browridges are moderately heavy, the eyes deep set. These faces are strikingly reminiscent of types common among northwest Europeans today, in strong contrast to those shown in the art of the Sumerians, Babylonians, and Hittites, which are definitely Near Eastern. The face, therefore, is definitely Nordic"
https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-VI5.htm
https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe-appendixI-007.jpg
37 - Scythians.

Porn Master

11-23-2017, 03:51 PM

Luca

11-23-2017, 04:08 PM

I don't realize what is the point of your map.

You claims that Turks are older than Scythians, do you know that the first mention of Turks was in 6th centuy AD? :coffee:

This is factually incorrect.
If you want to find out more about the turkic tribes, watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHXAYq5VBj8
As you can see the first turkish tribes can be traced back unto 222BC.
And because we know the scynthians lived 900-100BC, we can conclude the turks and scynthians shared land for 100 years

Luca

11-23-2017, 04:11 PM

In ancient period Turks were not lived in central Asia.
Central Asia in ancient time was populated by caucasoid Iranic speaeking people people such as Scythians, Sarmatians and Tocharians, in that period Turks or proto-Turks (semi-mongoloid) lived in southern Siberia (Altay) and Mongolia.
Turks settled central Asia in 6th century AD.

Do you know for example that Uyghurs came in Xinjiang in 6th century AD from southern Siberia and destroyed caucasoid Iranic speaking Tocharians?
Some Tocharians which survived are assimilatted by Uyghurs.

Red haired mummies from Tarim basin are Tocharians.

The ancient people that lived in these lands truly did have a diverse population. We can find remains of europeans, iranic people and turks in these lands. There is nothing to argue against the theory these lands were shared/under a constant quarrel between the different peoples that bordered these lands.

Vlatko Vukovic

11-23-2017, 06:45 PM

R1a is not only belong to Slavics boi

R1a-M458 is almost exclusively Slavic haplogroup. Also R1a-Z280.

Other branches are not.

itilvolga

11-23-2017, 06:48 PM

R1a-M458 is almost exclusively Slavic haplogroup. Also R1a-Z280.

Other branches are not.

I didn't say any shit about M458 or Z280

Pahli

11-24-2017, 05:13 PM

Retards and their identity crisis sparkling again xD

Let Anal Sandnigger come forth and present himself as some "SCYTHIEN WARRIOR OF ZE STEPPES" while he looks 120% Middle Eastern xD

Gangrel

11-24-2017, 05:26 PM

Retards and their identity crisis sparkling again xD

Let Anal Sandnigger come forth and present himself as some "SCYTHIEN WARRIOR OF ZE STEPPES" while he looks 120% Middle Eastern xD

i can pass in scythia

Pahli

11-24-2017, 05:28 PM

i can pass in scythia

im tall and aggressive, fight me

Kouros

11-24-2017, 05:47 PM

Hardcore cherrypicking typical for turanist imbeciles, combined with typical autotardness "lol has some meme-cluster like "siberian", therefore not white!".
Scythians, as Andronovo descendants were R1a Europoids with high frequency of light hair and eyes.
https://i.imgur.com/1ZyB1ut.png
http://i.imgur.com/PvE7RFR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BjiBq1h.jpg
"The Scythians themselves, under the influence of powerful Greek colonies on the north shore of the Black Sea, and particularly in the Crimea, produced a dis tinctive style of realistic art in gold repoussée. These tepresentations in-clude a number of portraits of Scythians in very realistic and life-like poses. They show a well-defined type of heavily bearded, long-haired men with prominent, often convex, noses. The browridges are moderately heavy, the eyes deep set. These faces are strikingly reminiscent of types common among northwest Europeans today, in strong contrast to those shown in the art of the Sumerians, Babylonians, and Hittites, which are definitely Near Eastern. The face, therefore, is definitely Nordic"
https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-VI5.htm
https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe-appendixI-007.jpg
37 - Scythians.

Where can I find more information like those images?

Leto

11-24-2017, 08:54 PM

Western/Black Sea Scythians may have been similar to this person:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?225476-Caucasian-Russian-GEDmatch-results-(with-photos)

Babak

11-24-2017, 09:08 PM

You need autosomal DNA of those people, then u will destroy Turk fantasy. Are these people on Gedmatch?

We already have it

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 33.77
2 NE_Europe 27.96
3 South_Asia 14.64
4 SW_Europe 11.15
5 Siberia 3.9
6 NE_Asia 2.91
7 Americas 2.89
8 SW_Asia 1.77
9 East_Africa 0.63
10 South_Africa 0.37

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tadjik 8.8
2 Afghan_Pashtun 14.61
3 Afghan_Uzbeki 16.3
4 Kumyk 16.66

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.4% Afghan_Pashtun + 26.6% Mordovian @ 3.62
2 74.7% Afghan_Pashtun + 25.3% Russian @ 3.84
3 76.9% Afghan_Pashtun + 23.1% Estonian @ 4.16
4 77.2% Afghan_Pashtun + 22.8% Lithuanian @ 4.23
5 77.3% Afghan_Pashtun + 22.7% Latvian @ 4.27

Leto

11-24-2017, 09:56 PM

We already have it

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 33.77
2 NE_Europe 27.96
3 South_Asia 14.64
4 SW_Europe 11.15
5 Siberia 3.9
6 NE_Asia 2.91
7 Americas 2.89
8 SW_Asia 1.77
9 East_Africa 0.63
10 South_Africa 0.37

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tadjik 8.8
2 Afghan_Pashtun 14.61
3 Afghan_Uzbeki 16.3
4 Kumyk 16.66

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.4% Afghan_Pashtun + 26.6% Mordovian @ 3.62
2 74.7% Afghan_Pashtun + 25.3% Russian @ 3.84
3 76.9% Afghan_Pashtun + 23.1% Estonian @ 4.16
4 77.2% Afghan_Pashtun + 22.8% Lithuanian @ 4.23
5 77.3% Afghan_Pashtun + 22.7% Latvian @ 4.27
Is that a Pamiri? Do you know the kit number?

MagnusAurelius

11-25-2017, 09:03 PM

Looks like the Turkish delusions have been debunked, mission accomplished.

Kouros

11-25-2017, 09:08 PM

Looks like the Turkish delusions have been debunked, mission accomplished.

https://i.imgur.com/dPX3txB.gif

Babak

11-25-2017, 09:41 PM

Is that a Pamiri? Do you know the kit number?

I don't actually, pahi might know.

Proto-Shaman

06-05-2018, 06:32 PM

Proto-Shaman

06-05-2018, 06:37 PM

Windy

11-25-2018, 02:06 PM

There were many tribes or people living in steppes called "Scythians", but real Euripides Scythians were especially Saka- Scythians. Sakas emerged near the Black Sea c. 750 BC. They were qualified metal workers, agricultors, horse breeders etc. and traded a lot with Ancient Greece. Sakas have had an enormous impact in Scandinavia as well. Scandinavia was earlier Scandia, which is an IE- form of Sakan Tie, meaning Sakas´Road or Sakas´way. Contrary to the mainstream linguist, Sakas were not Indo-Aryan or Indo-Iranian, but Finno-Aryan language speaking people. For example an inscription from Saqqez written in the Hieroglyphic Hittite script represents Scythian language and it´s quite clear Finnic:

Transliteration: par-tì-ta₅-wa₅ ki-ś₃-a₄-á KUR-u-pa-ti QU-wa-a₅ | i₅-pa-ś₂-a-m
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_languages

Literally: Partitava kisaa kurupati- kuvaa ispasam. "Partitava kisaa kurupati-kuvaa" means "Partitava plays kurupati-picture". Kurupati-kuva was likely some ancient play. Kisaa, kisata means to play in Finnish. There are not only Finnish words, but also a grammar exactly Finnish. This is not the only example about Aryans being Finno-Aryan people. Ulfila´s Bible is Finnic, a mysterious text in the noble Saxon´s medieval sword is Finnish, Vedic texts are ancient Finnish. And according to many respected linguists and researchers, also Sumerian language was Finno-Ugric. Iran didn´t even exist at that time, but mainstream talks about "Iranian languages", which is simply retard.

Mongoloidic N1c is a quite late admixture in Finno-Ugric nations in Russia and especially in Finland, only after Mongol invasion in Russia c. 1200. Czar´s invasion in the beginning of the 18th century, called "the Great Wrath", changed genetics of the population.
At that time there were only about 150 000 people in Finland, mainly women and children. You guess what happened. Original Finn men had died in the endless Swedish wars, because Finland was under Swedish rule before 18th century. However, modern N1c- Finnics and other hunter-gatherer based (..) explain Finnish language as "loan words". This is unbelievable, because even grammar is similar to Sanskrit, which was originally Sana Kirit.

And yes, original Finno-Aryan were R1a. They had also kingdoms in proto-Sweden. They were subdued at latest c. 1200, the Roman Catholic invasions taking place and IE- R1b and I being vassals of the Roman Church. There is only about 10% ancient Finno-Aryan R1a in Sweden nowadays, but these R1b -IE- gays promote happily their past being "Gothic".

CommonSense

11-25-2018, 02:11 PM

Are there any autosomal results for European Scythians, those who lived around the Black Sea as described by Herodotus ?

Windy

11-25-2018, 02:38 PM

Are there any autosomal results for European Scythians, those who lived around the Black Sea as described by Herodotus ?

I don´t know, I have made research mainly with their history and languages. Scythians, especially Saka- Scythians belonged to the so called Northern Tribes. Some of them escaped Assyrian´s invasion to the Black Sea. Many of them moved also to other parts of the Mediterranean, forming Velisna of Etruria, "The Brothers´Union". However, Sakas belonged at least partly to Panu Yami´s tribe and they were also Massagetaeans. Jaama, Jäämi, Yam, Jäm were different forms of Panu(son) Yami. There are numerous place names in North Europe named after them, for example Jämtland in Sweden.

Alans descended from Sakas as well, but of another tribe, and Sarmatians were originally Saka- Scythians as well. Areas of Alans moved to Hungary after the Mongol invasion may give some clue about their autosomals. Mongols didn´t rape as systematically as the Mongoloid N1c, which was used as a biological weapon against Finno-Ugric and Finno-Aryan tribes during the Czaric Era. That was called "unification politics":picard1:

Dick

11-25-2018, 02:46 PM

Are there any autosomal results for European Scythians, those who lived around the Black Sea as described by Herodotus ?

Yes

CommonSense

11-25-2018, 02:47 PM

Yes

Post them (or send me a link to the page in case somebody in this thread already did)

Dick

11-25-2018, 02:52 PM

Post them (or send me a link to the page in case somebody in this thread already did)

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/03/genetic-origins-and-legacy-of-scythians.html?m=1

Bosniensis

11-25-2018, 02:59 PM

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/03/genetic-origins-and-legacy-of-scythians.html?m=1

I don't understand this admixture chart, can you explain it?

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6nu45UX-Ny4/WLoqF71A80I/AAAAAAAAFYU/WSCdsWH6zvQHfZhBxtyD0OY6JMn5uVvmwCLcB/s1600/Iron_Age_nomads_Fig_7.png

CommonSense

11-25-2018, 03:04 PM

I don't understand this admixture chart, can you explain it?

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6nu45UX-Ny4/WLoqF71A80I/AAAAAAAAFYU/WSCdsWH6zvQHfZhBxtyD0OY6JMn5uVvmwCLcB/s1600/Iron_Age_nomads_Fig_7.png

I believe light blue represents 'East Asian' admixture. If that's correct, then that would suggest that Euro Scythians, the ones the Greeks had contact with, were nearly pure hunter-gatherers, while the ones in Central Asia already had significant mongoloid admixture. Since Scythians originated in Europe and their EA admixture rises the further you move eastward, it's obvious that OP is nothing more than a typical Turkish delusonal mythomaniac whose claims can't be backed up by science.

Leto

11-25-2018, 03:08 PM

Western Scythians didn't look like modern Middle Eastern Persians or half South Central Asian Afghans.

Token

11-25-2018, 03:10 PM

I believe light blue represents 'East Asian' admixture. If that's correct, then that would suggest that Euro Scythians, the ones the Greeks had contact with, were nearly pure hunter-gatherers, while the ones in Central Asia already had significant mongoloid admixture. Since Scythians originated in Europe and their EA admixture rises the further you move eastward, it's obvious that OP is nothing more than a typical Turkish delusonal mythomaniac whose claims can't be backed up by science.
Yeah, the light blue is East Asian, but as shown by the admixture chart all of the Scythian samples (Aldy_Bel, Zevakino_Chiikita and Pazyryk) have some degree of East Eurasian admixture. The pure Hunter-Gatherers you are referring to are pre-Scythian steppe people, to whom Scythians derive most (but not all) of their genepool.

Coastal Elite

11-25-2018, 03:10 PM

The Geneplaza K14 Calculator has a category for "Central & Eastern Scythian" but I have my doubts about how accurate it is. Anyone else try this one?

Maybe this video has been posted, but its interesting:

https://youtu.be/-IAxEtT3lfA

CommonSense

11-25-2018, 03:12 PM

Yeah, the light blue is East Asian, but as shown by the admixture chart all of the Scythian samples (Aldy_Bel, Zevakino_Chiikita and Pazyryk) have some degree of East Eurasian admixture. The pure Hunter-Gatherers you are referring to are pre-Scythian steppe people, to whom Scythians derive most (but not all) of their genepool.

Those three samples you mentioned are from Scythians who lived in Eastern Kazakhstan. I was referring to the red arrow on the left, the 'Early Sarmatians' - that sample has as much East Eurasian as present day Moldovans do.

jackrussell

11-25-2018, 03:13 PM

Native to Black Sea .
Tamed the horse.
Forged the steel.
Jewelled the Gold and Diamonds .
War like Europids a.k.a West Eurasians.
Can be found amongs Etruscans to Hittites to Ancient Egypt as well as Africa and China .

:D

My tribe fits the bill .

Token

11-25-2018, 03:21 PM

Those three samples you mentioned are from Scythians who lived in Eastern Kazakhstan. I was referring to the red arrow on the left, the 'Early Sarmatians' - that sample has as much East Eurasian as present day Moldovans do.
Yeah, these two Sarmatian samples are pretty European, but more recent ones from Ukraine are considerably more East Asian than these ones. We also have Western Scythian samples plotting straight with modern-day Northern Europeans, some with Southern Europeans, and even with North Caucasians. The 'European' ones are most likely acculturated Europeans considering their typically Western European haplogroups. Scythians were probably a very heterogeneous bunch since the beginning. If you are interested, we discussed it intensively here: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?262036-Ancient-genomes-suggest-the-eastern-Pontic-Caspian-steppe-as-the-source-of-western-Iron-Age-nomads

Windy

11-25-2018, 05:07 PM

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/03/genetic-origins-and-legacy-of-scythians.html?m=1
Here is a quote of some Kurti, answering to that article:

Also interesting how the study points out most genetic similarity to Central Asians and Caucasians for West Scythians which again proves my point that when most Indo_Iranian tribes emerged they were already heavily mixed with more CHG/Iran_Neo like groups from cultures like the BMAC. In fact the origin of the Scythians seems to be the southern parts of the Andronovo culture close to Yaz culture

My sister got recently results of her genome and there was, among Northern Europe and Western Russia, about 3% of a Central Asian match. Our mother line is Slavic, from Jaroslav and according to family tradition, ancestors went up to north from the northern Black Sea shore. Our father line comes likely from Novgorod in the 15th century, as a result of Moscow´s invasion. They may have been originally Alans from the Caucasus kingdom. I have to take a test as well, to know some further results.

Anyway, I show you a map of the origins of Finno-Aryan people in the beginning of the European Bronze Age. Deep roots of the Aryans were in the Sumerian Ur´s priestly kingly class. They established the 3rd dynasty in Kemi, which was Ancient Egypt. As it can be seen in the map, and also in some historical sources, this ancient super power coordinated metal cultures, colonies and mines all over the Europe and in Asia as well. Asia was even named after the Sarmatian/Scythian Asii-clan, which was called as Pasiani or Pasi in Vedic Aryan texts.
But these Asii in Mongolia etc. had their Euripid Y-haplogroups and mtDNA:s, according to research made from the found burial sites.

82237

These tribes which brought metal culture in Europe were Finno-Aryan R1a- people. There isn´t anyone who can show and prove I am wrong with this. And these people were fully Euripids, at least at that time. They established also a kingdom in Levant c. 1000BC. At that time they, especially the tribe of Van (Danai) invaded also Greece.

But these Aryan tribes, including Saka-Scythians, may have gotten some Mongoloid admixture for some reason or another. But I don´t think it happened freely.

Anyway, for example these Sintashta- Arkaim-Aryans were also Euripids, descendants of the ruling class of Kemi- Egypt. At the end of the Old Kingdom in Kemi, Nubian invaders destroyed power structures and around 1700 BC, Aryans of Arkaim, now called as Haka-Kasvut (Hykso is a corrupted Greek form) came to help their tribal brothers in Kemi-Egypt, and established a "Hykso" rule there. Same Haka-Kasvut helped in the revolution or a civil war in Kemi, arranged by the descendants of the Old Kingdom c. 1100BC. However, they lost and had to leave Kemi -Egypt, directing to Levant and other parts of the Mediterranean.

Sakas aka Aryan Scythians were noble people, not only by their looks but also by their manners. Greek were very snobs at that time but even they praised Sakas.

Any Mongoloid or even European hunter-gatherer stock doesn´t have anything to do with Aryan´s language history, cultures or research, including Ancient Kemi-Egypt.

sailormoon

11-26-2018, 12:49 AM

The Pazyryks from Mongolia and Altai were separated from the Scythians from present day Moldova and Ukraine (SCU) in the PC analysis (Figure 2) and they clustered with Central and East Asian populations (Juras et al. 2017). West Eurasian haplogroups U5 and H are dominant in the mtDNA haplogroup profile of the Scythians from Moldova and Ukraine, while the Pazyryks from Mongolia and Altai have more East Eurasian mtDNA lineages, such as A, D4j2 and F1b, compared to their SCU counterparts. East Eurasian mtDNA lineages increase from 26.3% in the Scythians (SCU) to 46.7% in the Pazyryks from Mongolia. Since haplogroup U5 accounts for 31.6% of the mtDNA haplotypes of the Scythians studied, they are genetically related to West Eurasian hunter-gatherers, whose descendants extended throughout the European subcontinent.

Mitochondrial lineages in the NPR Scythians analyzed in this study appear to consist of a mixture of west and east Eurasian haplogroups. West Eurasian lineages were represented by subdivisions of haplogroup U5 (U5a2a1, U5a1a1, U5a1a2b, U5a2b, U5a1b, U5b2a1a2, six individuals total, 31.6%), H (H and H5b, three individuals total, 15.8%), J (J1c2 and J2b1a6, two individuals, 10.5%), as well as haplogroups N1b1a, W3a and T2b (one individual each, 5.3% each specimen). East Eurasian mt lineages were represented by haplogroups A, D4j2, F1b, M10a1a1a, and H8c (represented by a single individual), in total, comprising 26.3% of our sample set.

https://media.nature.com/m685/nature-assets/srep/2017/170307/srep43950/images_hires/srep43950-f2.jpg
Figure 2: PC analysis based on mitochondrial DNA haplogroup frequencies.

To trace genetic affinities between Scythians from present day Moldova and Ukraine (SCU) and other European and Asian ancient populations, their mt haplogroup frequencies were visualized in the space of principle components. The PCA plot of the first two components accounted for 43.4% of the total variance (Fig. 2). The SCU group was located in direct proximity to the central European Neolithic Corded Ware culture (CWC). It also grouped near a number of Bronze Age populations from eastern and central Europe (Srubnaya (SRU), Yamnaya (YAM) and Unetice (UNC)), as well as from central Asia (Bronze Age Kazakhstan (BAK)). Finally, k-means clustering (k value = 5), grouped SCU within a cluster further encompassing Scythians from Russia (SCR) and Tagar culture from southern Siberia (TAG). The Pazyryks from Mongolia (SCM) and Altai (SCA) were separated from SCU and grouped within the k-mean cluster consisting of Central and East Asian populations.

Scythians from Rostov-on-Don as well as Pazyryks from Altai and Inner Mongolia were carriers of mixed east and west Eurasian lineages, with the dominant presence of the latter at 62.5% and 53.3%, respectively7,13,14,15,16,17,18. Mitochondrial haplogroup analyses of the NPR Scythians from this study and those from Rostov-on-Don and Pazyryks from Altai and Inner Mongolia, reveal that, for the most part, the same lineages are found in all three groups and are often singularly represented in each group. Noteworthy, comparing the frequencies of east and west Eurasian haplogroups in all three groups of the Scythian horizon, an east-west mtDNA lineage cline is visible, for east Eurasian lineages going west-east is from 26.3% (in present study) through 37.5% (in Scythians from Rostov-on-Don) to 46.7% (in Pazyryks) with the opposite trend for west Eurasian lineages.

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep43950

Windy

11-26-2018, 01:00 PM

How you get photos directly on to the site?

What it comes to U5, I think it was related to Mari people. However, H was more original or more common. Mari people had their mtDNA sampled for this study. 40.4% of these Mari belong to the mtDNA haplogroup H. Next most common is U5, found in 14% of the sample.http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/maris.html

Interestingly, Basques have a portion of U5 as well, and their culture was related somehow with Mari people. They have for example a legend of Mari Urraka, goddess living on the mountains. But their Y-DNA is solely R1b, which is not common among Aryan-Sakas and other related tribes. (Original Caucasoid) Maris established a Sumerian culture in Mesopotamia, at that time being totally without a Mongoloid admixture. Their Y-DNA was R1a, with Caucasoid mtDNA:s. Priestly Maris of Ur established the Old Kingdom in Egypt, as I wrote previously. This is important, because they coordinated and established metal cultures and mines all around, expanding rapidly even to Asia. However, there were also earlier (Euripid) mines in Asia, colonies sent by Sumerian kings. I think these were related to Corded Ware or to people related with Maris of Sumeria.

In any case, Mongoloid admixture is later among Scythians etc. and by no means, not any founding group. Mongoloid N1c and other third world nomads try to steel original Scythians` and other original Finno-Ugric or Finno-Aryan people´s heritage, including language. Finnish Mongoloids explain fanatically that they are "original Finno-Ugrics", which is total crap.

People who are listed as Indo-Aryan or Indo-Iran by mainstream, were and are descendants of Sumerian priestly Maris, mainly from Ur. They even named Ural after their ancient home city state, but still, Mongoloid N1c -crap keeps on explaining they were the founding Finno-Ugric people.

Kelmendasi

11-26-2018, 01:30 PM

How you get photos directly on to the site?

What it comes to U5, I think it was related to Mari people. However, H was more original or more common. Mari people had their mtDNA sampled for this study. 40.4% of these Mari belong to the mtDNA haplogroup H. Next most common is U5, found in 14% of the sample.http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/maris.html

Interestingly, Basques have a portion of U5 as well, and their culture was related somehow with Mari people. They have for example a legend of Mari Urraka, goddess living on the mountains. But their Y-DNA is solely R1b, which is not common among Aryan-Sakas and other related tribes. (Original Caucasoid) Maris established a Sumerian culture in Mesopotamia, at that time being totally without a Mongoloid admixture. Their Y-DNA was R1a, with Caucasoid mtDNA:s. Priestly Maris of Ur established the Old Kingdom in Egypt, as I wrote previously. This is important, because they coordinated and established metal cultures and mines all around, expanding rapidly even to Asia. However, there were also earlier (Euripid) mines in Asia, colonies sent by Sumerian kings. I think these were related to Corded Ware or to people related with Maris of Sumeria.

In any case, Mongoloid admixture is later among Scythians etc. and by no means, not any founding group. Mongoloid N1c and other third world nomads try to steel original Scythians` and other original Finno-Ugric or Finno-Aryan people´s heritage, including language. Finnish Mongoloids explain fanatically that they are "original Finno-Ugrics", which is total crap.
U5 is a Paleolithic mtDNA common throughout Europe among the WHG peoples, it isn't linked to the Mari or any modern population in it's original expansion into Europe. It is just a remnant from the Paleolithic populations of Europe. The Basque and the Mari are two completely separate peoples from two completely different areas of Europe. Just because the Basque have a goddess called "Mari" it doesn't mean that it is linked to the Mari people, similarities between words aren't meaningful unless they share the same etymology. Same goes for the Sumerians and Egyptians, two separate people groups from the Finno-Ugric Mari. Sumerian Ydna is highly unlikely to have been R1a.

Windy

11-26-2018, 03:40 PM

The Basque and the Mari are two completely separate peoples from two completely different areas of Europe. Just because the Basque have a goddess called "Mari" it doesn't mean that it is linked to the Mari people, similarities between words aren't meaningful unless they share the same etymology. Same goes for the Sumerians and Egyptians, two separate people groups from the Finno-Ugric Mari. Sumerian Ydna is highly unlikely to have been R1a.
There were aboriginal J and possibly E- groups in Mesopotamia already before the new R1a-Mari settlers in the beginning of the agriculture. R1a-Maris cooperated with the Mesopotamian or Mediterranean J, and their burial site has been found in Karelia, Lake Onega (Äänisjärvi). They brought cultivation of buckwheat Fagopyrum esculentumto Finland. There has been found also rests of pollen of buckwheat in Eastern Finland, from the same time that R1a and J lived in Karelia. This J has been found also among modern Koltta Sami in Russia.

I0061 Karelia_HG Russian Mesolithic EHG Yuzhnyy Oleni Ostrov, Karelia, Russia; UzOO74, grave 142, MAE RAS 5773-74 5500-5000 BCE Russia M C1g (formerly C1f) R1a1
--
Abstract

We generated genome-wide data from 69 Europeans who lived between 8,000-3,000 years ago by enriching ancient DNA libraries for a target set of almost four hundred thousand polymorphisms. Enrichment of these positions decreases the sequencing required for genome-wide ancient DNA analysis by a median of around 250-fold, allowing us to study an order of magnitude more individuals than previous studies and to obtain new insights about the past. We show that the populations of western and far eastern Europe followed opposite trajectories between 8,000-5,000 years ago.
At the beginning of the Neolithic period in Europe, ~8,000-7,000 years ago, closely related groups of early farmers appeared in Germany, Hungary, and Spain, different from indigenous hunter-gatherers, whereas Russia was inhabited by a distinctive population of hunter-gatherers with high affinity to a ~24,000 year old Siberian6.
By ~6,000-5,000 years ago, a resurgence of hunter-gatherer ancestry had occurred throughout much of Europe, but in Russia, the Yamnaya steppe herders of this time were descended not only from the preceding eastern European hunter-gatherers, but from a population of Near Eastern ancestry.
Western and Eastern Europe came into contact ~4,500 years ago, as the Late Neolithic Corded Ware people from Germany traced ~3/4 of their ancestry to the Yamnaya, documenting a massive migration into the heartland of Europe from its eastern periphery.
This steppe ancestry persisted in all sampled central Europeans until at least ~3,000 years ago, and is ubiquitous in present-day Europeans. These results provide support for the theory of a steppe origin of at least some of the Indo-European languages of Europe.

However, these R1a were NOT IE-speaking, but Finno-Ugric. R1a of the CW Culture was also Finno-Ugric. They brought agriculture, especially slash- and- beat in Europe. Etymology of SaB is also Finno-Ugric, for example German Hachwaldwirtscha is old Finnish- hakkaavalt virtsa, which means "fertilizer from a beater". Virtsa meant fertilizer in old times, but nowadays it means piss. Hakkaava = beating, hakkaavalt= from the beater.

I don´t understand IE- populations´or Mongoloids´fanatic attitude list also ancient R1a- agricultors as "IE-populations", despite of many evidences their being FINNO-UGRIC.

Kelmendasi

11-26-2018, 03:47 PM

There were aboriginal J and possibly E- groups in Mesopotamia already before the new R1a-Mari settlers in the beginning of the agriculture. R1a-Maris cooperated with the Mesopotamian or Mediterranean J, and their burial site has been found in Karelia, Lake Onega (Äänisjärvi). They brought cultivation of buckwheat Fagopyrum esculentumto Finland. There has been found also rests of pollen of buckwheat in Eastern Finland, from the same time that R1a and J lived in Karelia. This J has been found also among modern Koltta Sami in Russia.

However, these R1a were NOT IE-speaking, but Finno-Ugric.
Lol, the Mari didn't settle in Mesopotamia, they didn't even exist back then. None of the Finno-Ugric speaking peoples settled the region. The samples from Karelia are just native EHG from the area, nothing to do with Sumerians or any other Mesopotamian culture who were just a mix of native west Asian groups such as CHG and ENF. The J1 found in a Mesolithic Karelian sample has nothing to do with Mesopotamia, it is probably just from CHG contact that the EHG had.

Leto

11-26-2018, 03:52 PM

Windy is either an extremely delusional person with completely skewed views or simply a troll.

black hole

11-26-2018, 04:06 PM

Windy is either an extremely delusional person with completely skewed views or simply a troll.

I guess she is Finnish Swede, the girl from Finland.

Windy

11-26-2018, 04:09 PM

However, many of the leading and respected historians and linguists like Jules Oppert, Professor of Oriental Studies in Oxford Archibald, H. Sayce, A. H.Layard, Francis Lenormant, Delitzs, Henry C. Rawlinson and Finnish asyrologist Simo Parpola have come to the conclusion, that Sumerian was Finno-Ugric language. On the other hand, many Hungrian linguists have noticed a deep grammatic and lexical relation between Hungrian and Sumerian languages.

So, ignoring all of this and stating against all the evidences is simply retard and maybe politically colored disinformation.

Sumerian people and also those ruling Ancient Egypt called themselves Mari or Meri, you wanted or not. AND they were ancestors of Aryan Finnic people, including Saka-Scythians. Their later language shift does not wash away the original language spoken by them and their gene pool, even if mixed with mongrels later.

The J1 found in a Mesolithic Karelian sample has nothing to do with Mesopotamia, it is probably just from CHG contact that the EHG had.Bullshit. What if you stay with your Albanian history, without mongrelling with Saka people´s history...

There are also a lot of megaliths and other evidences of an advanced, Aryan or Proto-Aryan culture(s) in Siberia and Ural, from the period long before Mongoloids in those regions. All of this is censored in mainstream history writing. Why? Because all kind of HG- populations try to louse with Proto/Sumerian -Aryan cultures and genetics.

Kelmendasi

11-26-2018, 04:18 PM

Ryuk

11-26-2018, 04:18 PM

However, many of the leading and respected historians and linguists like Jules Oppert, Professor of Oriental Studies in Oxford Archibald, H. Sayce, A. H.Layard, Francis Lenormant, Delitzs, Henry C. Rawlinson and Finnish asyrologist Simo Parpola have come to the conclusion, that Sumerian was Finno-Ugric language. On the other hand, many Hungrian linguists have noticed a deep grammatic and lexical relation between Hungrian and Sumerian languages.

So, ignoring all of this and stating against all the evidences is simply retard and maybe politically colored disinformation.

Sumerian people and also those ruling Ancient Egypt called themselves Mari or Meri, you wanted or not. AND they were ancestors of Aryan Finnic people, including Saka-Scythians.

I haven't seen the Middle Eastern cultures classify as finno-ugric, except for the Hungarian extreme fantastic nationalists.

Besides, Sumerians wouldn't call themselves mari.They called themselves "sag giga"(blackhead )

http://www.wikizeroo.net/m/index.php?q=aHR0cHM6Ly9lbi5tLndpa2lwZWRpYS5vcmcvd2 lraS9TdW1lcg

The term Sumerian is the common name given to the ancient non-Semitic-speaking inhabitants of Mesopotamia by the East Semitic-speaking Akkadians. The Sumerians referred to themselves as ùĝ saĝ gíg ga (cuneiform: �� ), phonetically /uŋ saŋ gi ga/, literally meaning "the black-headed people", and to their land as ki-en-gi(-r) (cuneiform: ��) ('place' + 'lords' + 'noble'), meaning "place of the noble lords".[16] The Akkadian word Shumer may represent the geographical name in dialect, but the phonological development leading to the Akkadian term šumerû is uncertain.[17] Hebrew Shinar, Egyptian Sngr, and Hittite Šanhar(a), all referring to southern Mesopotamia, could be western variants of Shumer.[17]

Kelmendasi

11-26-2018, 04:20 PM

Bullshit. What if you stay with your Albanian history, without mongrelling with Saka people´s history...
Muh Saka people. Don't kid yourself, you lot aren't even related to the Scythians. Completely different language families my friend

Wrong

11-26-2018, 04:22 PM

xD. The Sumerian language had nothing to do with Finno-Ugric, a language group which at this time was most probably secluded to the northern areas of Russia and surrounding areas. Nothing to do with old Mesopotamian cultures. Every credible linguist has placed Sumerian as a language isolate, in other words, not Finno-Ugric. Please stop kidding yourself.
Lmao. It is like the Hungarian nationalists propagating the Sumerian origin of Magyars:

http://www.oocities.org/tmajlath/sumer.gif

Windy

11-26-2018, 05:05 PM

Besides, Sumerians wouldn't call themselves mari.They called themselves "sag giga"(blackhead )
You´re right. Saggiga is also Finno-Ugric, meaning sakki in Finnish. Saggi- sakki- you notice the similarity? Saggi/sakki means people, a group of people, family etc. Sumerian emegirmeant language and gir/kir means writing or a book. Kiri is a book also in Estonian and Sanskrit was Sanakiri. Brahmic script left some vowels off, but they were pronounced, of course. But Sumerians were Mari people, despite calling themselves also as saggiga. Emegir- megyer- magyar have also some relation.

For example English researcher Henry Sweet noticed a deep similarity and relationship between Finno-Ugric and Sanskrit. He was totally correct. And it´s not any nationalism, if Hungarian people notice the same, but honest research, which cannot be said about HG-mongrels, who don´t have anything to do with Proto-/Sumerian- Aryan history, language or culture.

Kelmendasi

11-26-2018, 05:20 PM

You´re right. Saggiga is also Finno-Ugric, meaning sakki in Finnish. Saggi- sakki- you notice the similarity? Saggi/sakki means people, a group of people, family etc. Sumerian emegirmeant language and gir/kir means writing or a book. Kiri is a book also in Estonian and Sanskrit was Sanakiri. Brahmic script left some vowels off, but they were pronounced, of course. But Sumerians were Mari people, despite calling themselves also as saggiga. Emegir- megyer- magyar have also some relation.

For example English researcher Henry Sweet noticed a deep similarity and relationship between Finno-Ugric and Sanskrit. He was totally correct. And it´s not any nationalism, if Hungarian people notice the same, but honest research, which cannot be said about HG-mongrels, who don´t have anything to do with Proto-/Sumerian- Aryan history, language or culture.
Muh Mari people were Sumerians. Just stop. You lot were still hunter-gatherers in northern Russia back when the Sumerians had established Sumer. You are basing linguistic similarity on appearance, that's just wrong. Linguistic similarity is based on etymology/common origin. Sag giga were two different words, sag likely meant black whilst giga head or headed. Unrelated to what Sakki means, people. Black headed and people are two completely different things, idk how you see a similarity in meaning or etymology.

Windy

11-26-2018, 05:28 PM

Muh Mari people were Sumerians. Just stop. You lot were still hunter-gatherers in northern Russia back when the Sumerians had established Sumer. You are basing linguistic similarity on appearance, that's just wrong. Linguistic similarity is based on etymology/common origin. Sag giga were two different words, sag likely meant black whilst giga head or headed. Unrelated to what Sakki means, people. Black headed and people are two completely different things, idk how you see a similarity in meaning or etymology.

You´re wrong. Cuneiform was written by bytes. Sag/sak was one byte and gi/ki was another. Any casual IE-HG does not have any idea about Sumerian language. They even transcript words cutting and splitting them ignorantly, because they don´t have any kind of idea about the language. The same is with Sanskrit.

They explain also Mitanni like retards:

The Mitanni, a people known in eastern Anatolia from about 1500 BC, were of mixed origins: a Hurrian-speaking majority was dominated by a non-Anatolian, Indo-Aryan elite.[12]:257 There is linguistic evidence for such a superstrate, in the form of:

a horse training manual written by a Mitanni man named Kikkuli, which was used by the Hittites, an Indo-European Anatolian people;
the names of Mitanni rulers and;
the names of gods invoked by these rulers in treaties.
In particular, Kikkuli's text includes words such as aika "one" (i.e. a cognate of the Indo-Aryan eka), tera "three" (tri), panza "five" (pancha), satta "seven", (sapta), na "nine" (nava), and vartana "turn around", in the context of a horse race (Indo-Aryan vartana). In a treaty between the Hittites and the Mitanni, the Ashvin deities Mitra, Varuna, Indra, and Nasatya are invoked. These loanwords tend to connect the Mitanni superstrate to Indo-Aryan rather than Iranian languages – i.e. the early Iranian word for "one" was aiva
Kikkuli is Finnish, meaning a dick. Mitanni were Mari people, as all Sumer- Aryans. They even called themselves MARIANNU. Mari repeats in ALL etymology of Sumerian and their descendants Finnic Aryans. Aryans were sea people and even sea is named after them in Roman languages, mar, mare. They formed the groups of the Sea People and surveyd even in Americas, long before Kolumbus and other IE-HG-. Sanskrit three was teri, not tri, like IE-HG- retards explain. Mitanni three was also teri. Teri is old Finnic and there are also places named after teri, like Terijoki. "Indo-Aryan" eka is also Finnish eka. Etc. I don´t know why this crap go on with Aryans´s language and culture, maybe to hide crimes of the Roman Church and other "religious" retards. But they certainly don´t have any idea about Aryan language, with few exceptions like Henry Sweet and other more qualified than IE-HG pussies.

I am talking about real, ancient Finnics, not modern Mongoloid N1c:s. Ancient Finns were different people. For example Irish and Welsh legends of Finns tell about ancient Finns, not modern ones. Finn comes probably of vene-ven, which meant a ship or a boat. Hebrew sfinah is likely lead from vene.

Kelmendasi

11-26-2018, 05:35 PM

You´re wrong. Cuneiform was written by bytes. Sag/sak was one byte and gi/ki was another. Any casual IE-HG does not have any idea about Sumerian language. They even transcript words cutting and splitting them ignorantly, because they don´t have any kind of idea about the language. The same is with Sanskrit.
Yh right. Just deal with the fact that every credible historian or linguist that has come out of a reputable university says otherwise. Don't be posting this chauvinistic fantasy. As I said before, Finno-Ugric peoples were still in primitive illiterate(just like the rest of the world excluding the Middle east) HG societies when the Sumerians had set up a state society. Any how, the etymology of the two words that you were talking about are just wrong. Black headed has no relation to a word meaning people. This is the same thing as those Turks that claim everything as Turanic, just the Mari version.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/World_in_2000_BC.svg/1920px-World_in_2000_BC.svg.png

Mingle

11-26-2018, 05:43 PM

You´re right. Saggiga is also Finno-Ugric, meaning sakki in Finnish. Saggi- sakki- you notice the similarity? Saggi/sakki means people, a group of people, family etc. Sumerian emegirmeant language and gir/kir means writing or a book. Kiri is a book also in Estonian and Sanskrit was Sanakiri. Brahmic script left some vowels off, but they were pronounced, of course. But Sumerians were Mari people, despite calling themselves also as saggiga. Emegir- megyer- magyar have also some relation.

For example English researcher Henry Sweet noticed a deep similarity and relationship between Finno-Ugric and Sanskrit. He was totally correct. And it´s not any nationalism, if Hungarian people notice the same, but honest research, which cannot be said about HG-mongrels, who don´t have anything to do with Proto-/Sumerian- Aryan history, language or culture.

If Scythians had a Finno-Ugric origin based off superficial similarity in two completely random unrelated words, then Finns had an Arabian origin since the Finnish endonym Suomi sounds similar to the Arabic word Sami: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%B3%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%8A#Etymology_2

It also sounds similar to the Arabic word Sami': https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%B3%D9%85%D9%8A%D8%B9

Windy

11-26-2018, 06:03 PM

If Scythians had a Finno-Ugric origin based off superficial similarity in two completely random unrelated words, then Finns had an Arabian origin since the Finnish endonym Suomi sounds similar to the Arabic word Sami: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%B3%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%8A#Etymology_2

It also sounds similar to the Arabic word Sami': https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%B3%D9%85%D9%8A%D8%B9

There are a lot of words originating from Sumeria and Ancient (Finno-Aryan) Egypt in Arabic, believe me, but it´s too long story now.

However, the etymology of Suomi and Sami comes from Sumerian word som, which meant a land. Estonian word for Suomi (Finnish Finland) is Soomi, led directly from Sumerian som. Suom-i is a diphtong from som. Sumerian language is not any isolated and dead language, but fully alive within Finno-Ugric languages.

What it comes to Mari etymology in Mesopotamia and around, there was also culturally and linguistically Sumerian city state MARI, named after Sumerian related MARI people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mari,_Syria

There is not any other nation in our world with bigger and more significant impact for civilization, development and sciences than these Mari people. Sciences are, in fact, solely intellectual culture and heritage of R1a-Mari people and their descendants Finno-Aryan R1a-people in Europe. Even Hellenes were R1a-Aryans, who brought knowledge from ancient Kemi-Egypt of their ancestors, whose roots were in Sumeria.

Aryan tribes established also a kingdom in Levant, of which capital in the northern part was SOMERO (Samaria). Sumerian somwas also in the name of their capital and Via MARI, an important trade route went through Somero.

Kelmendasi

11-26-2018, 06:12 PM

There is a lot of words originating from Sumeria and Ancient (Finno-Aryan) Egypt in Arabic, believe me, but it´s too long story now.

However, the etymology of Suomi and Sami comes from Sumerian word som, which meant a land. Estonian word for Suomi (Finnish Finland) is Soomi, led directly from Sumerian som. Suom-i is a diphtong from som. Sumerian language is not any isolated and dead language, but fully alive within Finno-Ugric languages.

What it comes to Mari etymology in Mesopotamia and around, there was also culturally and linguistically Sumerian city state MARI, named after Sumerian related MARI people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mari,_Syria

There is not any other nation in our world with bigger and more significant impact for civilization, development and sciences than these Mari people.
Typical "We wuz kangz" mentality. When a people group that contribute nothing to something claim they created it all. We see the same things in Africans claiming Egyptians, now it's the Mari claiming Sumerians, probably the weirdest of them all considering just how illogical it all is

Leto

11-26-2018, 06:17 PM

Typical "We wuz kangz" mentality. When a people group that contribute nothing to something claim they created it all. We see the same things in Africans claiming Egyptians, now it's the Mari claiming Sumerians, probably the weirdest of them all considering just how illogical it all is
Most Mari don't know anything about that BS, lol. The most they would claim is that Russians are not Slavic but Finnic, hence they are the true natives but Sumeria and Mesopotamia being Finnic is too much of a stretch even for many pseudoscientists. :lol:

Windy

11-26-2018, 07:35 PM

Most Mari don't know anything about that BS, lol. The most they would claim is that Russians are not Slavic but Finnic, hence they are the true natives but Sumeria and Mesopotamia being Finnic is too much of a stretch even for many pseudoscientists. :lol:
Modern Maris have a significant Mongoloid admixture, even if they are classified Caucasoids, which they are of course. There are many Mari and other Finno-Ugric nations in Russia, which at least partly come from Mesopotamia. Komis` language is Zyrian. Syrian. Kom means a man in Komi language and Etruscan kum, meaning also a man, is related to Komi-kom. Cimmerian Cim has the same root. This is not any rocket science, but very logical, and without any contradictory with genetic research.

However, Aryan Mari formed their own tribes, but fought together with Mesopotamian Mari for example when beated Babylonia, establishing Persia. At that time some of Sumer-Mari and maybe Komi as well moved north (modern Russia), likely to establish trade colonies.

But if you read history, you´ll notice Mesopotamian Mari people always supporting their Aryan Mari descendants against Rome.

Slavic languages are very young, formed by Bysant or Greek influence. Don´t you know your own language history? Slavs were Finno-Aryan language speaking before their language shift. I don´t have any reason to lie or troll with this, it´s simply a fact.

Kelmendasi

11-26-2018, 07:44 PM

Modern Maris have a significant Mongoloid admixture, even if they are classified Caucasoids, which they are of course. There are many Mari and other Finno-Ugric nations in Russia, which at least partly come from Mesopotamia. Komis` language is Zyrian. Syrian. Kom means a man in Komi language and Etruscan kum, meaning also a man, is related to Komi-kom. Cimmerian Cim has the same root. This is not any rocket science, but very logical, and without any contradictory with genetic research.

However, Aryan Mari formed their own tribes, but fought together with Mesopotamian Mari for example when beated Babylonia, forming Persia. At that time some of Sumer-Mari and maybe Komi as well moved north, to establish trade colonies.
:blink:. You and your we wuz kangz pseudo science, just give up will you... Deal with the fact that Finno-Ugric peoples contributed nothing to the ancient civilizations of the middle east. I don't know how many times it needs to be said that your ancestors were out hunting in the snow when Sumer was established.

Windy

11-26-2018, 08:40 PM

:blink:. You and your we wuz kangz pseudo science, just give up will you... Deal with the fact that Finno-Ugric peoples contributed nothing to the ancient civilizations of the middle east. I don't know how many times it needs to be said that your ancestors were out hunting in the snow when Sumer was established.

My ancestors were not Mongoloids, even if there can be some genetic flow from Mongolidic people, and in fact there is, about 1% Amazon aboriginal match. This doesn´t surprise me, because there are many Finnic place names in South America and Tupi language has many Finnish words, as well Aymara, which refers to Mari (Ay-Mari). Among other shifts, Amazon derives from Finno-Ugric A-Maat-Se-On, which means A-Land-It-Is. It can also refer to ancient Kemi- Egyptian goddess Maat, which also meant Lands.

But cultural parasitic IE-HG and Mongoloid-N1c don´t have any proof for their statements Aryan were Indo-Aryans, or Scythians. I have brought many examples about Aryan being Finno-Aryan, which cannot be mere coincidences. There is even a vessel decorated with Cuneiform script, found in Puma Punku, South America. This is also a clear evidence ancient Sumerian Mari travelled to Americas thousands years ago.

All the genetic research show Mongoloidic is later in Scythian gene pool. Scythians spoke some language and they even wrote. European HG-population, including Celts, didn´t know to write, but only R1a- Aryan people.

Ulfila´s Bible, which is listed Gothic, is also ancient Finnic. IE-HG- "academics" don´t have any idea about its real content. "Generally accepted" is not necessarily true.

Saxons or Saks were also Finno-Aryan. The text in the Saxon noble´s sword, which has been a mystery to IE-HG- "academics" and Mongoloids, is also pure Finnish.

https://youtu.be/k0PDUZ2HIOI

Kelmendasi

11-26-2018, 08:45 PM

My ancestors were not Mongoloids, even if there can be some genetic flow from Mongolidic people, and in fact there is, about 1% Amazon aboriginal match. This doesn´t surprise me, because there are many Finnic place names in South America and Tupi language has many Finnish words, as well Aymara, which refers to Mari (Ay-Mari). Among other shifts, Amazon derives from Finno-Ugric A-Maat-Se-On, which means A-Land-It-Is.

But cultural parasitic IE-HG and Mongoloid-N1c don´t have any proof for their statements Aryan were Indo-Aryans, or Scythians. I have brought many examples about Aryan being Finno-Aryan, which cannot be mere coincidences. There is even a vessel decorated with Cuneiform script, found in Puma Punku, South America. This is also a clear evidence ancient Sumerian Mari travelled to Americas thousands years ago.

All the genetic research show Mongoloidic is later in Scythian gene pool. Scythians spoke some language and they even wrote. European HG-population, including Celts, didn´t know to write, but only R1a- Aryan people.
Ffs xD. You've got to be trolling no way you're serious.... Fucking Finno-Ugrics in South America xD...

Windy

11-26-2018, 10:01 PM

What a hll some Albanian is trolling all the time with Scythian related history?

Ok, just tell me what is said in this Scythian writing called Issyk script? Is it Albanian in your opinion?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issyk_inscription

Proto-Shaman

11-27-2018, 05:21 AM

Depends on the individual Scythian. The Scythians in Europe were definitely genetically very eastern European while those in Asia have significant east-Eurasian mongoloid admixture in them, especially the ones in Siberia. The Scythians were a diverse Iranic people, and being one has nothing to do with genetics or race whatsoever.
its 2018 and ou still promote this "Arabo"-Iran brain fuck.

Western Scythians were the mixed ones and they mainly resembled modern Northern-Caucasian and central Asian peoples. Even Cimmerians had this MONGOLOID ADMIXURE.

https://media.tenor.com/images/ae8ff72dc752b07656faf90c408f2eb2/tenor.gif

Venethi

11-27-2018, 09:54 AM

https://www.etis.ee/File/DownloadPublic/25dff7e1-1cdf-4a88-8462-b9df81003037?name=poster_Scythians_MariJarve.pdf&type=application%2Fpdf

Token

11-27-2018, 11:11 AM

Modern Maris have a significant Mongoloid admixture, even if they are classified Caucasoids, which they are of course. There are many Mari and other Finno-Ugric nations in Russia, which at least partly come from Mesopotamia. Komis` language is Zyrian. Syrian. Kom means a man in Komi language and Etruscan kum, meaning also a man, is related to Komi-kom. Cimmerian Cim has the same root. This is not any rocket science, but very logical, and without any contradictory with genetic research.

However, Aryan Mari formed their own tribes, but fought together with Mesopotamian Mari for example when beated Babylonia, establishing Persia. At that time some of Sumer-Mari and maybe Komi as well moved north (modern Russia), likely to establish trade colonies.

But if you read history, you´ll notice Mesopotamian Mari people always supporting their Aryan Mari descendants against Rome.

Slavic languages are very young, formed by Bysant or Greek influence. Don´t you know your own language history? Slavs were Finno-Aryan language speaking before their language shift. I don´t have any reason to lie or troll with this, it´s simply a fact.

We wuz Sumerians, we wuz Amerindians, we wuz Goths, we wuz Saxonsm we wuz Scythians, we wuz Slavs

Windy

11-27-2018, 01:05 PM

We wuz Sumerians, we wuz Amerindians, we wuz Goths, we wuz Saxonsm we wuz Scythians, we wuz Slavs

What do you think about these Finnic Tupi words? My 1% match with Amazonas`s aboriginals isn´t any imagination either. But there wasn´t anything about Australians thus this 1% comes from another source.On the other hand, there is one aboriginal shaman with blue eyes. He looks like a tanned Russian. https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/genetic-studies-link-indigenous-peoples-amazon-and-australasia-003475

Tupi, by the way comes from tobacco, Finnish tupa or tiupa. According to Vedic texts, they (Aryans) imported tabacco, among other things. These imported things were called "uddiset".

Translations are from Finnish to English:
Soco- from Saka, note also Sacsay in Peru
Cutucar- kutu = spawn, kari =rock or stone in water. Cutucar meant for example a rock in the coast where fishes went to spawn.
Tiquinho- tikku= stick, inho= dislike
Tatu- Finnish male name. The king “David’s ” original name was Tatu. However, it was a common male’s name among the Finno-Ugric Habirus and Tatu could have been just any male’s name. Tatu is still quite common male’s name in Finland.
Itaquaquecetuba- Ita or itä= east, tuba- tupa= tobacco or in modern Finn. also a small house or room, usually with oven or fireplace. Ce or se= it
Thus Itaquaquecetuba meant “East cake it living place”. Quaque was most likely kakku, meaning a cake in modern Finn.

Pindamonhangaba- hangaba- Finn. hankaava= abrasive, pinda, Finn. pinta=
Caruaru- karu, aru, aro= plain, ascetic. Anyway, karu means rugged, stark, and wild in Finnish, for example karu aro means rugged plain.
Manaus- manaus means simply exorcism in Finnish.
Tupi anthroponyms
Ubirajara,Ubiratã,Moema,Jussara,Jurema andJanaín show clear connection to the Finno- Aryan culture:
Ubirajara- Sumer, Sanskrit Ub-Up= tip, peak, point (UPsala), raja= border, upa= river
Ubirata= Ub= tip, point, rata= track
Janai- jana- this was very important word in Habirus’ life culture. Jana meant a measured line from one point to another, measured according to the ancient Sumerian system. This indicates to a long term existence and surveying in the Americas. Janai are commonly known as ley lines, though third world archeology ignores their existence.

Lima refers to Lim(a) dynasty of the Mari city state in Levant. They went there very early. Saksai Huaman in turn is simply Saksai place, Saxons, but without later Angloism, of course.

Interestingly, a group of Saksai (Saxons) moved to South America just during the worst persecution by the Roman Catholic Church. After murdering Merovingians, popes got the control in Europe and Charlemagne, their vassal, massacred 4500 Saxon prisoners. Only ten years after that Aryans revenged and begun their attacks against monasteries etc.. Mainstream history knows it as the "Viking Age". Saksai Huaman is possibly related to these events. There is also other evidence, also in North America. I think there have been found at least two Viking ships, one near/in Mississippi.

Chelubey

11-28-2018, 10:15 AM

The article of the Russian historian about the relationships of Scythians, Slavs, Turks (2005 year - long before modern genetic studies).
http://lebed.com/2005/art4029.htm

Windy

11-28-2018, 03:56 PM

Vikings´ boat was called uiki, and wiki> viking is only a modified IE from uiki. Ui(da) means to swim in modern Finn. Vikings formed a coalition of the members of different Aryan tribes, including Saka -Scythians. As I stated in some previous post, even Scandia (later Scandinavia) was originally Sakantie, meaning Sakas´ road. Vikings were called Rus by Slavic and Finno-Ugrics in Volga and other places there. They established Kievan Rus etc. Rus was a Scythian clan, named after the son Rus of the ancient Patriarch of Panu Yami (Biblical "Benjamin") in Kemi aka Ancient Egypt. These Panu Yami went also to South America establishing colonies there, already c. 2300BC.

Only a very retard crap and a culturally parasitic mongoloid mongrel can insist that Saka-Scythians and other Aryans very Mongoloids. No they were not. And early Finnish was the same language as early Sanskrit c.1800Bc. Same tribes established colonies in Finland and other places, as well in India. Mongoloids have absolutely nothing to do with their history or language history, even if fckd themselves within at some stage.

These third world Mongoloids went even to Middle East and destroyed a very valuable library in Baghdad, with many scientific and historical texts there. The Roman Catholic crap destroyed the library of Alexandria. These parasites have been fully envy because of the noble Aryans´remarkable intelligence, cultures, language, science and other achievements. They mongreled also to Viking- Rus societies in Russia and spoiled Novgorod´s advanced and developed society. There was for example direct democracy in Novgorod, established by Aryans and original Finno-Ugric R1a. There was women´s equality and they could vote as well. This was 1000 years ago. There was also an advanced judicial system, in which Mongrels introduced torture and corruption.
Russia could do well with Rus people, but Mongoloids within, it´s very hard.

By the way, Mari people in Russia are called the last pagans in Europe. Isn´t it ironic? Aryans were Biblical tribes, and their culture emerged from Sumeria, which praised Anunnaki as their gods. Even Moses, originally Sama Muni, was priest in the temple dedicated to An, the Sumerian main god.

Scythians and Magyars of Hungary have also their roots in Sumeria and Ancient Egypt. It´s really sick, that these pervert Roman Catholics massacred also Hungarians and destroyed sistematically their Scythian Runic writings etc.

The Genocide of the Old Scythian writing, ordered by the Popes
https://aleximreh.wordpress.com/2011/01/14/the-genocide-of-the-old-scythian-writing-ordered-by-the-popes/

Rereg

03-30-2019, 08:30 PM

So conclusion is that "Scythians" from kazakh/siberian Steppe were relatively similar to modern turkic people, "Scytians" from Transoxania were similar to Tajiks while real western Scythians from pontic steppe didnt resemble any modern population.

That's an ethnic scythian from the capital of Scythia, not a outsider mongrel from Pazyrik or Central Asia.

Scythian and Cimmerian ancestors originally came from Central Asia, just later they conquered and assimilated local Srubnaya population.

Bandesha

03-31-2019, 10:14 AM

saka or indo scythian jatt are found in my village , we have still few natural brown haired girls , my girl from village has brown pubes and natural brown hairs and very light eyes

Proto-Shaman

03-31-2019, 02:08 PM

to do with Proto-/Sumerian- Aryan history, language or culture.

https://i.imgur.com/RDmWZUM.jpg

Leto

03-31-2019, 07:38 PM

saka or indo scythian jatt are found in my village , we have still few natural brown haired girls , my girl from village has brown pubes and natural brown hairs and very light eyes
This Punjabi from Anthrogenica is one of the most Aryan Indians I've seen

HarappaWorld Oracle results:

Kit KC4074281

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 39.31
2 S-Indian 26.08
3 NE-Euro 13.94
4 Caucasian 13.28
5 Mediterranean 2.54
6 American 1.89
7 Siberian 1.8
8 SW-Asian 0.86
9 Papuan 0.29
10 Beringian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 4.13
2 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 5.01
3 pathan (hgdp) 5.24
4 haryana-jatt (harappa) 5.58
5 sindhi (harappa) 6.08
6 bhatia (harappa) 6.98
7 kashmiri (harappa) 7.08
8 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 7.73
9 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 7.93
10 kalash (hgdp) 8.36
11 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 8.48
12 punjabi (harappa) 8.8
13 burusho (hgdp) 9.04
14 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 9.06
15 punjabi-arain (xing) 9.37
16 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 10.11
17 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 10.22
18 sindhi (hgdp) 10.8
19 nepalese-a (xing) 11.02
20 pashtun (harappa) 11.09

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.4% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 8.6% urkarah (xing) @ 2.07
2 51.9% pathan (hgdp) + 48.1% haryana-jatt (harappa) @ 2.08
3 91.8% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 8.2% lezgin (behar) @ 2.13
4 92.6% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 7.4% chechen (yunusbayev) @ 2.17
5 91.5% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 8.5% stalskoe (xing) @ 2.25
6 93.4% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.6% adygei (hgdp) @ 2.3
7 93.4% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.6% balkar (yunusbayev) @ 2.35
8 92.5% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 7.5% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 2.37
9 93.5% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.5% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) @ 2.38
10 61.5% haryana-jatt (harappa) + 38.5% kalash (hgdp) @ 2.49
11 94.8% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 5.2% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 2.58
12 95% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 5% georgian (behar) @ 2.62
13 52.7% haryana-jatt (harappa) + 47.3% sindhi (harappa) @ 2.66
14 92.9% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 7.1% nogai (yunusbayev) @ 2.72
15 93.5% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.5% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) @ 2.83
16 94.5% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 5.5% armenian (behar) @ 2.85
17 93.8% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.2% turk (behar) @ 2.86
18 93.3% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.7% azeri (harappa) @ 2.89
19 87.9% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 12.1% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 2.9
20 93.9% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.1% turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) @ 2.93

Bandesha

03-31-2019, 08:26 PM

This Punjabi from Anthrogenica is one of the most Aryan Indians I've seen

HarappaWorld Oracle results:

Kit KC4074281

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 39.31
2 S-Indian 26.08
3 NE-Euro 13.94
4 Caucasian 13.28
5 Mediterranean 2.54
6 American 1.89
7 Siberian 1.8
8 SW-Asian 0.86
9 Papuan 0.29
10 Beringian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 4.13
2 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 5.01
3 pathan (hgdp) 5.24
4 haryana-jatt (harappa) 5.58
5 sindhi (harappa) 6.08
6 bhatia (harappa) 6.98
7 kashmiri (harappa) 7.08
8 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 7.73
9 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 7.93
10 kalash (hgdp) 8.36
11 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 8.48
12 punjabi (harappa) 8.8
13 burusho (hgdp) 9.04
14 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 9.06
15 punjabi-arain (xing) 9.37
16 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 10.11
17 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 10.22
18 sindhi (hgdp) 10.8
19 nepalese-a (xing) 11.02
20 pashtun (harappa) 11.09

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.4% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 8.6% urkarah (xing) @ 2.07
2 51.9% pathan (hgdp) + 48.1% haryana-jatt (harappa) @ 2.08
3 91.8% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 8.2% lezgin (behar) @ 2.13
4 92.6% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 7.4% chechen (yunusbayev) @ 2.17
5 91.5% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 8.5% stalskoe (xing) @ 2.25
6 93.4% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.6% adygei (hgdp) @ 2.3
7 93.4% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.6% balkar (yunusbayev) @ 2.35
8 92.5% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 7.5% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 2.37
9 93.5% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.5% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) @ 2.38
10 61.5% haryana-jatt (harappa) + 38.5% kalash (hgdp) @ 2.49
11 94.8% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 5.2% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 2.58
12 95% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 5% georgian (behar) @ 2.62
13 52.7% haryana-jatt (harappa) + 47.3% sindhi (harappa) @ 2.66
14 92.9% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 7.1% nogai (yunusbayev) @ 2.72
15 93.5% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.5% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) @ 2.83
16 94.5% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 5.5% armenian (behar) @ 2.85
17 93.8% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.2% turk (behar) @ 2.86
18 93.3% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.7% azeri (harappa) @ 2.89
19 87.9% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 12.1% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 2.9
20 93.9% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.1% turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) @ 2.93

here is spreadsheet of admix of punjabi jatts and other punjabi groups like arain and khatri
jatt s are getting 15% Ne euro on average whille other groups are getting 15% Caucasian on average

Ne euro or steppe is associated with scyhtians imo and jatts have legend of that they are indo scythians mixed sakas with indians

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mTH_BnLv9riKKwHeNpjFmu7flT6_ekTuYij0juxnjb4/edit#gid=898798223

Leto

04-01-2019, 09:13 AM

here is spreadsheet of admix of punjabi jatts and other punjabi groups like arain and khatri
jatt s are getting 15% Ne euro on average whille other groups are getting 15% Caucasian on average

Ne euro or steppe is associated with scyhtians imo and jatts have legend of that they are indo scythians mixed sakas with indians

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mTH_BnLv9riKKwHeNpjFmu7flT6_ekTuYij0juxnjb4/edit#gid=898798223
Thanks for the link, that's a good sheet.

Bandesha

04-01-2019, 09:19 AM

Thanks for the link, that's a good sheet.

about your reputation comment about pathans . this spradsheet has pashtun pathans results too , you can check here

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mTH_BnLv9riKKwHeNpjFmu7flT6_ekTuYij0juxnjb4/edit#gid=1083344679

Leto

04-01-2019, 09:22 AM

about your reputation comment about pathans . this spradsheet has pashtun pathans results too , you can check here

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mTH_BnLv9riKKwHeNpjFmu7flT6_ekTuYij0juxnjb4/edit#gid=1083344679
I see. Why do Lahore Punjabis get so little Steppe ancestry? Some are less than 5% NE!

Bandesha

04-01-2019, 09:23 AM

I see. Why do Lahore Punjabis get so little Steppe ancestry? Some are less than 5% NE!

big cities are muttland mixture of people from all over india

Rereg

04-01-2019, 02:14 PM

so scythians are half turkic half european

Nope, Yamnaya component among Scythians was much bigger than in modern day european or turkic populations.

Altaylardan Tunaya

07-14-2019, 07:28 PM

https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49384916_228091378075222_5756920485057134592_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQn0f_IUuATtIRWNXPYXUxxSxIHw851UDoJh8f6KSFC G3c8S3kqi9rXGtPC5KNVpofo2DmvF_EH-h3sDREcF2Gj3&_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.xx&oh=82e6b277b81f26871ad5940c6b358c99&oe=5DB0683D

WinterCrusader

07-14-2019, 07:50 PM

Now I am waiting for blacks to claim that Scythians we're Ancient Africans.

Dorian

07-14-2019, 07:56 PM

Where are all these turanist clowns?they've disappeared :(

Oghuz

07-14-2019, 08:14 PM

Sychtians were Iranic. Lol at others trying to claim them like how people try to claim Kurds, Pashtuns, Azeris. Iranic Plateau has become a goldmine of ethnicities for other racial groups to claim.

Truth Preacher

07-14-2019, 08:16 PM

I see. Why do Lahore Punjabis get so little Steppe ancestry? Some are less than 5% NE!

I think it’s been well established fact that the PJL sample was taken from a Dalit colony in Lahore

Bandesha

08-06-2019, 03:12 PM

I think it’s been well established fact that the PJL sample was taken from a Dalit colony in Lahore

Actually dalit concept don't exist in pakistani punjab. There is very non racist attitude in muslims from what i have seen. In my opinion 40% paki punjabi are dalit origin but all these have become something. Bhatti,khokhar,gill e.t.c are their favorite surname to adopt. second thing is assimilation into dominant clans . i will give you example of my own village, When my family came to south punjab . there were only 9 man and they expelled the kahanbadosh and christians living in (village which now we occupy) later christians and oad/tapriwas/khanabaodsh people came for help and we allowed them to live sides of village and later one of my ancestor become mullah and forcefully converted half of christians into muslim and now they are intermixed married with some real bandesha faimies and now 100% pind call themself bandesha and christians and khanbadosh also write bandesha on their facebook profiles and use muslim names

Windy

01-09-2020, 10:22 AM

saka or indo scythian jatt are found in my village , we have still few natural brown haired girls , my girl from village has brown pubes and natural brown hairs and very light eyes

That´s interesting. Do they still call themselves Jatts? You know, Jats are/ were an Aryan tribe. They were Juts, Jätti, Jatuli etc. in Scandinavia and Finland. Some of them had also a kingdom in Canaan and the Bible knows them as "Judah". Other were Katti/Goths as Gad, Vanai as Dan etc. Aryan tribes spread as a strong warrior class from ancient Egypt or Kemi in the beginning of the European Bronze Age bringing metal knowledge and processing.

People don´t know or it´s purposely censored that these people were not originally IE, but Finno- Aryans, Y-DNA R1a.

They were named Jats or Jatos also in the Vedic texts. For example Bhagavad Gita 6:26:

yato yato niscalati
manas cancalam asthiram
tatas tato niyamyaitad
atmany eva vasam nayet

That´s ancient Finnish, my dears. This is because the people of the same Aryan tribes settled in Finland and in Vedic India. For example Pankala and Kuru kingdom were their settlements there.

The text says:
Yato Yato dress maker (nisca/niska is ancient Finnish, meaning a dress, lati in turn refers to laatia, to make)
your land Kankaala`s places (Kankaala means a place of cloth, the basic form kangas)
this that don´t Yami store houses ( Yami means Jäämi in Finn. a Saka (Aryan Scythian) tribe, Bibl. Panu Jami or Benjamin)
... Vasa`s women. ( Two last words are Vasa`s women, I don´t know others`meaning in this context).
---

Sanskrit is originally Sana-kirit, meaning (Estonian)a word list or (Finn.) word runnings.

Windy

01-09-2020, 10:41 AM

Sychtians were Iranic. Lol at others trying to claim them like how people try to claim Kurds, Pashtuns, Azeris. Iranic Plateau has become a goldmine of ethnicities for other racial groups to claim.

Scythians were not Iranic, Iran didn´t even exist at that time, but Sumeria and Mesopotamia. Descendants of the Finno-Ugric EHG (R1a) established a Sumerian high culture, the city- state of Mari closely related to Sumeria, ancient Egypt aka Kemi etc. These people were not aboriginal HG, but EHG R1a. They didn´t speak Indo-Iranian or any other IE- bull shit.

Bandesha

01-10-2020, 11:59 AM

That´s interesting. Do they still call themselves Jatts? You know, Jats are/ were an Aryan tribe. They were Juts, Jätti, Jatuli etc. in Scandinavia and Finland. Some of them had also a kingdom in Canaan and the Bible knows them as "Judah". Other were Katti/Goths as Gad, Vanai as Dan etc. Aryan tribes spread as a strong warrior class from ancient Egypt or Kemi in the beginning of the European Bronze Age bringing metal knowledge and processing.

People don´t know or it´s purposely censored that these people were not originally IE, but Finno- Aryans, Y-DNA R1a.

They were named Jats or Jatos also in the Vedic texts. For example Bhagavad Gita 6:26:

yato yato niscalati
manas cancalam asthiram
tatas tato niyamyaitad
atmany eva vasam nayet

That´s ancient Finnish, my dears. This is because the people of the same Aryan tribes settled in Finland and in Vedic India. For example Pankala and Kuru kingdom were their settlements there.

The text says:
Yato Yato dress maker (nisca/niska is ancient Finnish, meaning a dress, lati in turn refers to laatia, to make)
your land Kankaala`s places (Kankaala means a place of cloth, the basic form kangas)
this that don´t Yami store houses ( Yami means Jäämi in Finn. a Saka (Aryan Scythian) tribe, Bibl. Panu Jami or Benjamin)
... Vasa`s women. ( Two last words are Vasa`s women, I don´t know others`meaning in this context).
---

Sanskrit is originally Sana-kirit, meaning (Estonian)a word list or (Finn.) word runnings.

that's awesome bro

This is ancient Sanskrit , can you translate it "bri gal wa mama , bs krdy hun , mera naa v badnam keta wan tun naal e"

joking aside russian and Sanskrit are very close languages

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b-OjaPV4m8

Bosniensis

01-10-2020, 12:04 PM

that's awesome bro

This is ancient Sanskrit , can you translate it "bri gal wa mama , bs krdy hun , mera naa v badnam keta wan tun naal e"

joking aside russian and Sanskrit are very close languages

[video=youtube;-b-OjaPV4m8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b-OjaPV4m8[/vido]

Another reason to abandon Slavic languages completely.

I don't want to be associated with Hindus people.

Romanians were smart for revitalization of Latin.

samario

01-10-2020, 12:10 PM

Because they were attractive and fierce.

Bandesha

01-10-2020, 12:13 PM

Another reason to abandon Slavic languages completely.

I don't want to be associated with Hindus people.

Romanians were smart for revitalization of Latin.

sansikirt was spoken in modern day paksitan , vedic tribes lived in modern day paksitan and they spread hindusim to modern india

Zoro

01-10-2020, 12:24 PM

Scythians were not Iranic, Iran didn´t even exist at that time, but Sumeria and Mesopotamia. Descendants of the Finno-Ugric EHG (R1a) established a Sumerian high culture, the city- state of Mari closely related to Sumeria, ancient Egypt aka Kemi etc. These people were not aboriginal HG, but EHG R1a. They didn´t speak Indo-Iranian or any other IE- bull shit.

What nonsense! Everyone knows Iran didn't exist at the time, but Meson said Iranic.

Do you even know what Iranic is or Indo-Iranians such as Andronovo and Sintashta people?

Scythians existed in the heart of Indo-Iranian territory. Even Wikipedia has:

The Scythians are generally believed to have been of Iranian origin.[5] They spoke a language of the Scythian branch of the Eastern Iranian languages,[6] and practiced a variant of ancient Iranian religion.[7] Among the earliest peoples to master mounted warfare,

GENETICS

At Eurasiandna.com https://eurasiandna.com/diploid-genotyping-low-medium-coverage-ancient-dna/ they did a detailed genetic study of the Volga River Scythian sample. I wish they had studied the more Asian Scythian samples they would have been even more Iranic, but here are the study results using HAPLOTYPE IBD segments and Broad Institute F3. These tools are much more reliable than admixture and they use them in scientific studies.

HAPLOTYPE sharing

The Volga river Scythian sample (all the way on the left) shared the most haplotypes with Tatars, Belaroussans, and Iranics (Kurds). I'm sure the Asiatic Scythians would have been even more Iranic shifted if they had studied them

https://i.imgur.com/2ol0ym8.jpg

Admixtools F3

Admixtools F3s showed that Iranics had the highest admixture signal from the Scythian sample.

https://i.imgur.com/CBzvqjt.jpg

Zoro

01-10-2020, 12:30 PM

LANGUAGE of Scythians

Here you see that it is much more related to Indo-Iranian languages such as Kurdish and Avestan than E. European or Kartvelian (Georgian) or Turkish

https://i.imgur.com/DGWAxBU.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/N33bTbl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bFMzE6S.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TF5Zdmz.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hYXRqhq.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HzlGySO.jpg

Oghuz

01-10-2020, 02:29 PM

TheOldNorth

01-10-2020, 02:55 PM

who's to say that wasn't a slave, after all the ancient greeks and romans said that the scythians could be divided between the mixed lower class Scythians, and the 'purer' royal Scythians, also I'm sure the more west you go in ancient Scythia, the more european they looked and were

kalach

01-10-2020, 02:59 PM

You all are whipping the sea. You all have propagandas and agendas. This thread made me sure about fanatism on history is bs.

TheOldNorth

01-10-2020, 03:00 PM

What nonsense! Everyone knows Iran didn't exist at the time, but Meson said Iranic.

Do you even know what Iranic is or Indo-Iranians such as Andronovo and Sintashta people?

Scythians existed in the heart of Indo-Iranian territory. Even Wikipedia has:

GENETICS

At Eurasiandna.com https://eurasiandna.com/diploid-genotyping-low-medium-coverage-ancient-dna/ they did a detailed genetic study of the Volga River Scythian sample. I wish they had studied the more Asian Scythian samples they would have been even more Iranic, but here are the study results using HAPLOTYPE IBD segments and Broad Institute F3. These tools are much more reliable than admixture and they use them in scientific studies.

HAPLOTYPE sharing

The Volga river Scythian sample (all the way on the left) shared the most haplotypes with Tatars, Belaroussans, and Iranics (Kurds). I'm sure the Asiatic Scythians would have been even more Iranic shifted if they had studied them

https://i.imgur.com/2ol0ym8.jpg

Admixtools F3

Admixtools F3s showed that Iranics had the highest admixture signal from the Scythian sample.

https://i.imgur.com/CBzvqjt.jpg

if they share with bellorussians this means they were likely somewhere between modern central asian and modern eastern european, but I think one thing everyone is forgetting is that the truly mongoloid aspect of kazakhs, and uzbekhs and such came in during the dark ages through to the early medieval ages

Windy

01-12-2020, 08:41 PM

What nonsense! Everyone knows Iran didn't exist at the time, but Meson said Iranic.

Do you even know what Iranic is or Indo-Iranians such as Andronovo and Sintashta people?

Scythians existed in the heart of Indo-Iranian territory. Even Wikipedia has:

Of course I know Andronovo and Sintashta people, as well as Arkaim, Pish Pek, Bactriana etc. These people were not "Indo-Iranians". All of these early metal cultures were coordinated by ancient Egypt aka Kemi and/or formed a larger united cultural phenomena and net work. At THAT time there was Sumeria and Mesopotamia. It´s very misleading to talk about Indo -Iranian or anything related to Iran. Saka- Scythians were descendants of the Sumerian priestly, kingly class which ruled in Ancient Egypt during the Old Kingdom, as the other Aryan tribes as well. They never spoke any indo language at that time.

The problem is that you and many others don´t have a big picture. You site Wikipedia as the absolute truth "Scythians are believed to be this and that..." Even Herodotus wrote there are Saka Scythians, noble and good people and then there are some other steppe people, cannibals etc. with nothing to do with the Saka. I am talking about the Saka people. Modern Iranian with Y-DNA R1a come likely from ancient Sumerian Mari people or some later Aryans. But ancient Aryan were not Indo-Iranian, but Finno-Aryan. You can argue whatever, but this is the truth.

And, according to many linguists, Sumerian language was Finno-Ugric. It wasn´t any Indo, but an agglutinate, Finno- Ugric language. There is a clear historical chain and an unity with these ancient people and high cultures. Modern Iranian or Indo- cultures are mostly descendants of some aboriginal nomads or HG.

vbnetkhio

01-12-2020, 08:54 PM

Another reason to abandon Slavic languages completely.

I don't want to be associated with Hindus people.

Romanians were smart for revitalization of Latin.

:icon_lol:

Latin also has similarities with Sanskrit through PIE, just like Slavic languages

Crimson Winds

01-12-2020, 08:56 PM

they are dead

vbnetkhio

01-12-2020, 08:58 PM

that's awesome bro

This is ancient Sanskrit , can you translate it "bri gal wa mama , bs krdy hun , mera naa v badnam keta wan tun naal e"

give me some hints

Windy

01-12-2020, 09:21 PM

but I think one thing everyone is forgetting is that the truly mongoloid aspect of kazakhs, and uzbekhs and such came in during the dark ages through to the early medieval ages

It seems that this is a very delicate subject in general. Mongoloids are a very late admixture elsewhere. For example DNA tests from the Iron Age graves in Finland show that the Mongoloid N1c was absent even in East Finland. Instead, there were Viking farmers and other Aryan stock. ALL the ancient DNA research show the same thing, N1c was totally absent in Baltic and in Carelia from the Mesolithic to the Iron Age. Nowadays there is 80% Mongoloid Y-DNA in East Finland, and only Mongoloid Y-DNA, not any Mongoloid mtDNA. There were some invasions and the Great Wrath during the genetic bottleneck, rapes and pillage as usual. And the Iron Age Proto- Sami had LESS Mongoloid than Finns today, can you imagine? They censore the results in media, telling only something fuzzy about "Siberian genes" and "Siberian roots".

Bandesha

01-14-2020, 09:22 AM

give me some hints

it's a joke , its actually punjabi

pure sanikirit used to be closely resemble slavic languages ,

Lithuanian language is also similar to sanskrit. Comparison:

Kas tvam asi? Asmi svapnas tava tamase nakte. Agniṃ dadau te śradi tada viśpatir devas tvam asi.

Kas tu esi? Esmi sapnas tavo tamsioje naktyje. Ugnį daviau tau širdy, tada viešpatis dievas tu esi.

First verse is in sanskrit, second one is in modern Lithuanian

RandomGuy20

01-14-2020, 11:56 AM

Because Scythians intermixed with the early Slavs.

Adamg

01-19-2020, 09:02 PM

Because Scythians intermixed with the early Slavs.

Rather it was common EHG-like ancestry for eastern PIE.

Chelubey

01-20-2020, 12:05 PM

L3mon J3lly

01-26-2020, 06:03 PM

It seems that this is a very delicate subject in general. Mongoloids are a very late admixture elsewhere. For example DNA tests from the Iron Age graves in Finland show that the Mongoloid N1c was absent even in East Finland. Instead, there were Viking farmers and other Aryan stock. ALL the ancient DNA research show the same thing, N1c was totally absent in Baltic and in Carelia from the Mesolithic to the Iron Age. Nowadays there is 80% Mongoloid Y-DNA in East Finland, and only Mongoloid Y-DNA, not any Mongoloid mtDNA. There were some invasions and the Great Wrath during the genetic bottleneck, rapes and pillage as usual. And the Iron Age Proto- Sami had LESS Mongoloid than Finns today, can you imagine? They censore the results in media, telling only something fuzzy about "Siberian genes" and "Siberian roots".

N1c isn't Mongoloid and Vikings weren't around and that time nor Aryan, plus your whole hypothesis is bullshit.

aklifal

06-04-2020, 09:14 PM

It seems to me that people just do not represent real Scythians, but are judged by similar pictures.
http://az-buki.moscow/wa-data/public/shop/products/16/95/9516/images/5008/5008.750x0.jpg

In the Triangle Turks-Scythians-Iranians there are exclusive (or almost exclusive) cultural similarities between Turks and Scythians, and nothing in common between reliable Iranians and Scythians.
Here are just a small part of these similarities.
1) Drink "Kumis" - sour mare's milk - it seems still to be an exclusive Turkic-Mongolian drink.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumis
2) Scythian stella.
Turks made Scythian-like stella until the late Middle Ages.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_stelae
3) Skull cups.
There is a connection Scythians -> Huns -> Turks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_cup
This list can be continued and you can include another similar 15-20 points.
Nothing to do with Iranian cultures and customs.
It is a matter of time before a scientific bureaucracy specializing in history admits its mistakes.

and here are some real renderings of what scythians looked like made by scythians themselves. not by some swamp mutant wewuzzer in search of his fantasy identity.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQprltjG87QwbiKa3FVSjwIjyFR0b0 jqyV-kJtTQ57kIAdDzM65&usqp=CAU

https://m.marefa.org/images/thumb/0/04/Heraios_profile.jpg/300px-Heraios_profile.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/KushanHead.jpg/300px-KushanHead.jpg