EU, Russia and Turkey Struggle for Balkan Influence

[Loki]

https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/eu-russia-and-turkey-struggle-for-balkan-influence-815423?ref=NzgzMjI2&utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=contentmarketing&utm_campaign=outbrain-retfeb17

Turkey and Russia are rapidly developing their influence in southeast Europe. Austrian Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz calls on the EU to bring the Balkans into its orbit.

https://global.handelsblatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/mosquebosnia.jpg

The next European crisis, like so many before, could begin in the Balkans. The EU and NATO are attempting to draw countries like Serbia and Montenegro more closely into their orbit, but they face competition for influence from the United States, Russia, Turkey and even Saudi Arabia.

Speaking to Handelsblatt, Austria’s Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz warned of the growing influence of Turkey and Saudi Arabia. “In Sarajevo and Pristina, for example, women are paid to wear the full veil in public,” he claimed, adding: “We cannot look on and do nothing.”

Mr. Kurz demanded an acceleration of the integration of the region with the EU, to keep Turkey and Russia at bay. He said other pressing issues, like Brexit or migration, should not distract the EU from the Western Balkans. Tensions were still high within and between states in the region, he said: “We must continue to play an active role in this crucial region, offering a credible EU perspective.”

https://global.handelsblatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/22-p09-Balkan-Relations-with-the-EU-01-1.png

Since 2014, Germany has taken a lead in promoting EU relations with Balkan states, encouraging reform and cooperation in what is known as the “Berlin Process.” But little concrete progress has been made, leading German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel this summer to call for a “Berlin Process plus” agenda, with more specific goals in aid and integration.

In the past, the Balkans was often a field in which outside powers competed for influence: for centuries Habsburgs faced off against Ottomans, followed by the West versus the Soviet Union. Today, Turkey and Russia are the EU’s major rivals for influence.

For Turkey, the Balkans present both an emotional and a rational attraction. Centuries of Turkish rule left behind Muslim minorities and a cultural and architectural legacy. Many historic monuments are now being restored by Turkish government agencies.

But Turkey is also pursuing a hard-headed economic agenda. Recent months have seen substantial Turkish mining investments in Kosovo and airline cooperation with Albania, as well as a new free trade agreement with Bosnia, signed in May. In public statements on the Balkans, Turkey has emphasized its role as a stabilizing factor in the region. This is also how the EU views its own position.

Russia is another heavyweight player on the Balkan stage. Moscow has particularly close relations with its traditional ally Serbia, not least thanks to their shared Slav culture and Orthodox religion. Surveys show that most Serbs are pro-Russian, and feel unfavorably toward NATO, which heavily bombed the country in 1998. On a recent visit, Dmitry Rogozin, Russia’s deputy prime minister, insisted that “Serbia will never become a member of the EU.”

Russia also stands accused of intriguing in other Balkan states: 21 alleged pro-Russian coup conspirators are due to stand trial in Montenegro later this year – an association Russia dismisses as “absurd.” Neighboring Macedonia wants to accelerate its accession to NATO, in view of what defense minister Radmila Sekerinska has called “Russian attempts to gain influence in our politics and security.” Moscow has dismissed these accusation as Russophobia.

Possible tensions resulting from Turkish and Russian policy in the Balkans can be seen in Bulgaria. Here Ankara is supporting a new party, Dost, representing the country’s Turkish ethnic minority, since it regards the existing party as too close to Russia. The Dost leader, Lütfi Mestan, has regularly met with leading members of Turkey’s ruling AKP party, as well as with Turkish President Erdogan himself.

As if this were not enough, China also sees a role for itself in the region, primarily through its massive “Belt and Road” infrastructure project, which aims to improve communications across the Eurasian landmass. Under the scheme, Beijing plans to invest some €10 billion, around $11.8 billion, in 16 countries in south-eastern and eastern Europe.

[Egyptian]

https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/eu-russia-and-turkey-struggle-for-balkan-influence-815423?ref=NzgzMjI2&utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=contentmarketing&utm_campaign=outbrain-retfeb17



Speaking to Handelsblatt, Austria’s Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz warned of the growing influence of Turkey and Saudi Arabia. “In Sarajevo and Pristina, for example, women are paid to wear the full veil in public,” he claimed, adding: “We cannot look on and do nothing.”

Mr. Kurz demanded an acceleration of the integration of the region with the EU, to keep Turkey and Russia at bay. He said other pressing issues, like Brexit or migration, should not distract the EU from the Western Balkans. Tensions were still high within and between states in the region, he said: “We must continue to play an active role in this crucial region, offering a credible EU perspective.”


That's interfering in the internal affairs of the state of Bosnia.

Bosnian government themselves agreed about playing a better role with countries like Turkey and Saudia, so why would an austrian minister be so angry?

BTW, I don't think these 2 countries play a bad role in Bosnia, maybe Some saudis are giving a bad image there (as I work in the tourism field there are many flights to Bosnia nowadays from MENA especially Saudia and a lot of them buying lands there) but come on, what europeans expect? Bosnia is not that wealthy to refuse a lot of money coming from saudis side.

[Lavrentis]

All the Balkans are going to choose the EU. Even the Serbs, who are the number 1 ally of Russia, are now doing everything they can to enter the EU.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

All the Balkans are going to choose the EU. Even the Serbs, who are the number 1 ally of Russia, are now doing everything they can to enter the EU.

Russia wants that Bosnia and Serbia choose their side, not EU. But our politicians and politicians from Serbia choose EU.

[adsız]

"women are paid to wear the full veil in public,”"

This is hard to believe.

[Gizem]

AKP is wasting our money for this shit. Bu no worries they can't do anything, they couldn't even buy half of the society here.

Our influence in the Balkans is already getting better thanks to Turkish TV series that break prejudices towards us. But no need for neo-ottoman agenda pursued by the AKP that does not even represent half of our society.

Saudis are also buying lands here, Istanbul is full of Arabian tourists in burqa. Wish there was a force that could shut the doors to them. I don't want their money.

[The Destroyer]

https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/eu-russia-and-turkey-struggle-for-balkan-influence-815423?ref=NzgzMjI2&utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=contentmarketing&utm_campaign=outbrain-retfeb17

Turkey and Russia are rapidly developing their influence in southeast Europe. Austrian Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz calls on the EU to bring the Balkans into its orbit.

https://global.handelsblatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/mosquebosnia.jpg

The next European crisis, like so many before, could begin in the Balkans. The EU and NATO are attempting to draw countries like Serbia and Montenegro more closely into their orbit, but they face competition for influence from the United States, Russia, Turkey and even Saudi Arabia.

Speaking to Handelsblatt, Austria’s Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz warned of the growing influence of Turkey and Saudi Arabia. “In Sarajevo and Pristina, for example, women are paid to wear the full veil in public,” he claimed, adding: “We cannot look on and do nothing.”

Mr. Kurz demanded an acceleration of the integration of the region with the EU, to keep Turkey and Russia at bay. He said other pressing issues, like Brexit or migration, should not distract the EU from the Western Balkans. Tensions were still high within and between states in the region, he said: “We must continue to play an active role in this crucial region, offering a credible EU perspective.”

https://global.handelsblatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/22-p09-Balkan-Relations-with-the-EU-01-1.png

Since 2014, Germany has taken a lead in promoting EU relations with Balkan states, encouraging reform and cooperation in what is known as the “Berlin Process.” But little concrete progress has been made, leading German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel this summer to call for a “Berlin Process plus” agenda, with more specific goals in aid and integration.

In the past, the Balkans was often a field in which outside powers competed for influence: for centuries Habsburgs faced off against Ottomans, followed by the West versus the Soviet Union. Today, Turkey and Russia are the EU’s major rivals for influence.

For Turkey, the Balkans present both an emotional and a rational attraction. Centuries of Turkish rule left behind Muslim minorities and a cultural and architectural legacy. Many historic monuments are now being restored by Turkish government agencies.

But Turkey is also pursuing a hard-headed economic agenda. Recent months have seen substantial Turkish mining investments in Kosovo and airline cooperation with Albania, as well as a new free trade agreement with Bosnia, signed in May. In public statements on the Balkans, Turkey has emphasized its role as a stabilizing factor in the region. This is also how the EU views its own position.

Russia is another heavyweight player on the Balkan stage. Moscow has particularly close relations with its traditional ally Serbia, not least thanks to their shared Slav culture and Orthodox religion. Surveys show that most Serbs are pro-Russian, and feel unfavorably toward NATO, which heavily bombed the country in 1998. On a recent visit, Dmitry Rogozin, Russia’s deputy prime minister, insisted that “Serbia will never become a member of the EU.”

Russia also stands accused of intriguing in other Balkan states: 21 alleged pro-Russian coup conspirators are due to stand trial in Montenegro later this year – an association Russia dismisses as “absurd.” Neighboring Macedonia wants to accelerate its accession to NATO, in view of what defense minister Radmila Sekerinska has called “Russian attempts to gain influence in our politics and security.” Moscow has dismissed these accusation as Russophobia.

Possible tensions resulting from Turkish and Russian policy in the Balkans can be seen in Bulgaria. Here Ankara is supporting a new party, Dost, representing the country’s Turkish ethnic minority, since it regards the existing party as too close to Russia. The Dost leader, Lütfi Mestan, has regularly met with leading members of Turkey’s ruling AKP party, as well as with Turkish President Erdogan himself.

As if this were not enough, China also sees a role for itself in the region, primarily through its massive “Belt and Road” infrastructure project, which aims to improve communications across the Eurasian landmass. Under the scheme, Beijing plans to invest some €10 billion, around $11.8 billion, in 16 countries in south-eastern and eastern Europe.

Utter shit article. As someone who lives in Bosnia, I can definitely say that this thing about someone paying Bosniaks to grow beards and cover up is more of a conspiracy theory than David Icke's story about Obama and the English queen being shapeshifting reptilians.

Secondly, even if it was true (which it isn't), meddling in someone else's affairs is pure colonialism. The Bosnian Islamic Community has already issued a rebuttal telling the Austrian Minister to keep his hands to himself and take care of Austrian Muslims.

Thirdly, this shitbag says "Muslim minorities" while Bosniaks and Albanians are the majority in 3 countries (Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo). The level of ignorance in this article is Trump-level.

[EuropeanVlachSon]

The russian propaganda and anti EU propaganda in ROmania growth, but we are still one of the biggest supporters of the union, so they should try harder.

[Loki]

Russia wants that Bosnia and Serbia choose their side, not EU. But our politicians and politicians from Serbia choose EU.

I don't think Russia thinks Bosnia would choose them. Only Serbia would.

[Loki]

"women are paid to wear the full veil in public,”"

This is hard to believe.

Worrying if true...

[Ujku]

They should get all the fucking european countries to EU and form a European army and a mega country with Russian in it.... How else are we going to compete China,India and the upcoming giant Nigeria??


Those idiots from GB made a great mistake for leaving the EU , we need to stand together no matter our differences because Africa is going to triple it's population by 2100.


Especially Balkans need to unite into one country because our population is so low.

[Lucia]

Bosnian government themselves agreed about playing a better role with countries like Turkey and Saudia, so why would an austrian minister be so angry?


Bosnian government is a mess. It's one of the members of the presidency(Bosnia and Herzegovina has 3 presidents: a Bosniak, a Serb and a Croat), Bakir Izetbegović(yes, the Bosniak) and his party who keep bringing these Wahhabis into Bosnia and Herzegovina.

[Loki]

They should get all the fucking european countries to EU and form a European army and a mega country with Russian in it.... How else are we going to compete China,India and the upcoming giant Nigeria??



I fully agree!! :thumb001:

[EuropeanVlachSon]

They should get all the fucking european countries to EU and form a European army and a mega country with Russian in it.... How else are we going to compete China,India and the upcoming giant Nigeria??


Those idiots from GB made a great mistake for leaving the EU , we need to stand together no matter our differences because Africa is going to triple it's population by 2100.



Russia now is incompatible with our values.

[Ujku]

I fully agree!! :thumb001:

Language won't be a problem because most of the population in all EU countries speaks English.
Also i think that Germany is slowing preparing for a mega EU country , they will soon create the EU army and by 2025 almost all western Balkan countries will be in the EU.

The thing is that we also need Russia in it and big benefits for the citizens that have more than 3-4 kids.

[Ujku]

Russia now is incompatible with our values.

We need them , they have great energy sources so we don't have to rely on Asia for that.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

The only country I would accept in influencing region is US, it's only country in the world who was able to solve very sensitive issues in Balkans, Russia was and will remain a troublemaker, so I'd reject categorically their influence here.

[EuropeanVlachSon]

We need them , they have great energy sources so we don't have to rely on Asia for that.

In a civillised united Europe what invest billions in education and research, we will dont need gas and petrolum anymore.
Just learn from nordic countries, from Norway, Netherlands, Finland, they are doing great in so many aspects, is not a shame to learn, is a shame to be ignorant and to dream to some pathetic daddys patriotards politicians.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Especially Balkans need to unite into one country because our population is so low.

You had Yugoslavia for that, see who wanted to benefit the most out of it and who will benefit if you incorporate all western Balkan countries again.

[Ujku]

In a civillised and a Europe what invest billions in education and research, we will dont need gas and petrolum anymore.

We do now , Nuclear energy is so safe nowdays but they are so afraid to invest in it. So much progress has been done and those idiots think that we still live in 70s... Thank god china is investing big time in it.

[Ujku]

You had Yugoslavia for that, see who wanted to benefit the most out of it and whom will benefit if you incorporate all western Balkan countries again.

This is different , the immigration from Africa will only get worse and worse. They will be coming by the millions.

[Laberia]

They should get all the fucking european countries to EU and form a European army and a mega country with Russian in it.... How else are we going to compete China,India and the upcoming giant Nigeria??


Those idiots from GB made a great mistake for leaving the EU , we need to stand together no matter our differences because Africa is going to triple it's population by 2100.


Especially Balkans need to unite into one country because our population is so low.
You know what? At the beggining of 90s when communism fell, some people in Europe had this idea of Russia joining the EU. The Russians laughed and said, are you going to join us?
Russia will be never part of europe. They have their country and their objectives.
Europe is a huge country. In this moment:

Area
• Total
4,475,757 km2 (1,728,099 sq mi)
• Water (%)
3.08
Population
• 2017 estimate
Increase 511,805,088[6]
• Density
116.8/km2 (302.5/sq mi)
GDP (PPP) 2017 estimate
• Total
$20.745 trillion[7] (2nd)
• Per capita
$40,610[7]
GDP (nominal) 2016 estimate
• Total
$16.518 trillion[7] (2nd)
• Per capita
$32,384[8]
To this data you have also to add the fact that we are talking about Europeans, white people and with this you have the big picture.
So, no need for Russia.

[The Destroyer]

Bosnian government is a mess. It's one of the members of the presidency(Bosnia and Herzegovina has 3 presidents: a Bosniak, a Serb and a Croat), Bakir Izetbegović(yes, the Bosniak) and his party who keep bringing these Wahhabis into Bosnia and Herzegovina.

And we will keep doing it. So-called "3 member" Presidency is just a name, American President Obama adressed Bakir Izetbegović as "President of Bosnia" in a letter.

Vlachs and Škutori from Bosnia don't even use Bosnian embassies when they are abroad, but Serbian and Croatian ones. It's the same with the Presidency, most Bosnian Vlachs and Škutori glorify Vučić and Kolinda as their leaders, petition them for help, thus, ironically, making their so-called "presidency members" less and less important.

[Ujku]

The only country I would accept in influencing region is US, it's only country in the world who was able to solve very sensitive issues in Balkans, Russia was and will remain a troublemaker, so I'd reject categorically their influence here.

Germans are the only ones that can unite Europeans.

[Profileid]

I'm no expert, but I see no reason to welcome Turkish or other MENA influence.

They don't seem to be doing much that's actually constructive. Literally all they care about is building mosques and breeding future terrorists. Also anything they offer beside that, the US,Germany, even Russia could all do a million times better.

[The Destroyer]

Worrying if true...

Why would the democratic choices of a foreign nation be worrying? Are those the mental leftovers of colonialism/imperialism?

[The Destroyer]

I'm no expert, but I see no reason to welcome Turkish or other MENA influence.

They don't seem to be doing much that's actually constructive. Literally all they care about is building mosques and breeding future terrorists. Also anything they offer beside that, the US,Germany, even Russia could all do a million times better.

Nobody asks your opinion. Muslim Balkanites, who form the majority in 3 countries, welcome them with open hands.

[Profileid]

Nobody asks your opinion. Muslim Balkanites, who form the majority in 3 countries, welcome them with open hands.
Nobody asked yours either. Muslim dog.

Have fun continuing to live with shit infrastructure BUT HEY AT LEAST YOU HAVE MOSQUES AND SOLDIERS FOR THE KHILAFAH.

[Lavrentis]

Nobody asks your opinion. Muslim Balkanites, who form the majority in 3 countries, welcome them with open hands.

How did the Turks help you during the Bosnian War? It was the Americans who helped Bosniaks.

You have nothing to gain from Turkey. The best option for Bosnia is to look for Western allies.

[Ujku]

I'm no expert, but I see no reason to welcome Turkish or other MENA influence.

They don't seem to be doing much that's actually constructive. Literally all they care about is building mosques and breeding future terrorists. Also anything they offer beside that, the US,Germany, even Russia could all do a million times better.

20-25 million modern Turks have origins from the Balkans. It's very important for them , but yes EU can offer 100 times more things than Turkey but the thing is that they are not really interested in us.

[EuropeanVlachSon]

We do now , Nuclear energy is so safe nowdays but they are so afraid to invest in it. So much progress has been done and those idiots think that we still live in 70s... Thank god china is investing big time in it.

Romania dont have problems with energy, we have our gas, our petrolum (not that much, but still have and we have a long world history in it), and electiry we have that much we are exporting it

[The Illyrian Warrior]

This is different , the immigration from Africa will only get worse and worse. They will be coming by the millions.

What this got to do with immigrants, what danger do they pose for Balkans exactly? most if not all end up in west anyways, so Balkan is safe because no one is interested to come to a third world region whom even their people prefer to emigrate......From geopolitical reasons united balkans is a suicide for smaller nations however very beneficial for bigger and much compact nations such as serbs, you shouldn't be saying that as Albanian because it's so stupid to suggest that idea.

[Ujku]

You know what? At the beggining of 90s when communism fell, some people in Europe had this idea of Russia joining the EU. The Russians laughed and said, are you going to join us?
Russia will be never part of europe. They have their country and their objectives.
Europe is a huge country. In this moment:

To this data you have also to add the fact that we are talking about Europeans, white people and with this you have the big picture.
So, no need for Russia.

Yeah , you are right..Europe needs more kids asap.

[Lucia]

And we will keep doing it. So-called "3 member" Presidency is just a name, American President Obama adressed Bakir Izetbegović as "President of Bosnia" in a letter.

Vlachs and Škutori from Bosnia don't even use Bosnian embassies when they are abroad, but Serbian and Croatian ones. It's the same with the Presidency, most Bosnian Vlachs and Škutori glorify Vučić and Kolinda as their leaders, petition them for help, thus, ironically, making their so-called "presidency members" less and less important.

You will keep doing it until you force changes upon yourselves. Then you will cry.

[Lavrentis]

Nobody asked yours either. Muslim dog.

Have fun continuing to live with shit infrastructure BUT HEY AT LEAST YOU HAVE MOSQUES AND SOLDIERS FOR THE KHILAFAH.

I wonder why haven't some people taken lessons from the past. The Turks did nothing for Bosnia, just bridges. And in the Bosnian War, there was no Turkish help.

I don't think The Destroyer's opinion is representative for all of Bosniaks.

But if they choose Turkey over the people who protected them against genocidal maniacs, it is still their choice. Only time will show if it pays out.

[Loki]

Language won't be a problem because most of the population in all EU countries speaks English.
Also i think that Germany is slowing preparing for a mega EU country , they will soon create the EU army and by 2025 almost all western Balkan countries will be in the EU.

The thing is that we also need Russia in it and big benefits for the citizens that have more than 3-4 kids.

Yes. And with Russia included, there will be endless living space ("lebensraum"). :)

[Profileid]

20-25 million modern Turks have origins from the Balkans. It's very important for them , but yes EU can offer 100 times more things than Turkey but the thing is that they are not really interested in us.

They have origins in the Balkans in the same sense I have origins in the United Kingdom. The only difference is my ancestors weren't stolen away and forced to adopt a new religion, language.

I looked up "Turkish construction in Albania" and all of the results point towards a mosque. The first result I get for something actually useful is a highway built by the fucking CHINESE. http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/chinese-corporation-to-build-new-albanian-highway

What does that tell you?

[Ujku]

What this got to do with immigrants, what danger do they pose for Balkans exactly? most if not all end up in west anyways, so Balkan is safe because no one is interested to come to a third world region whom even their people prefer to emigrate......From geopolitical reasons united balkans is a suicide for smaller nations however very beneficial for bigger and much compact nations such as serbs, you shouldn't be saying that as Albanian because it's so stupid to suggest that idea.

We are not talking about 2017 man , in the coming decades Balkans will be a heaven for them.

Also guess what happens if Central Europeans close their borders?? They are stuck with us.

And Serbs have no more that much influence , we live in 2017 and not in 1950s were Serbs were way richer and had way more people. Albanians are more united than ever before nowdays and our economies are growing way faster than theirs.

[Profileid]

*slurp* *slurp* Yes Baba Turk build us another mosque.

[The Destroyer]

You will keep doing it until you force changes upon yourselves. Then you will cry.

I welcome that change. I'm a proud Muslim, Communism has destroyed our traditional way of life. I have nothing against you returning to your Catholic roots either.

And before you tell me how this "Saudi culture" is "imported", here is a very short history lesson:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88Bosi4vKEw

[Loki]

Why would the democratic choices of a foreign nation be worrying? Are those the mental leftovers of colonialism/imperialism?

Who said those are democratic choices? I very much doubt it. People don't go willingly into slavery. You should rather move to Saudi Arabia if you want such things. They don't belong anywhere in Europe.

[Ujku]

They have origins in the Balkans in the same sense I have origins in the United Kingdom. The only difference is my ancestors weren't stolen away and forced to adopt a new religion, language.

I looked up "Turkish construction in Albania" and all of the results point towards a mosque. The first result I get for something actually useful is a highway built by the fucking CHINESE. http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/chinese-corporation-to-build-new-albanian-highway

What does that tell you?

Lol , Turks have no money for themselves leave alone investing big money in the Balkans. The future of the Balkans is with the EU but they give zero fucks about us.

[Loki]

I think there is at least one thing we can all agree on: The USA's influence is not wanted anywhere in Europe, and not in the Balkan either.

[Profileid]

I wonder why haven't some people taken lessons from the past. The Turks did nothing for Bosnia, just bridges. And in the Bosnian War, there was no Turkish help.

I don't think The Destroyer's opinion is representative for all of Bosniaks.

But if they choose Turkey over the people who protected them against genocidal maniacs, it is still their choice. Only time will show if it pays out.
Oh there was "help".
Bosnia: The Birthplace of Al-Qaeda
(http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1439767/posts)

It's hilarious how defensive this idiot gets when you bring up the almost non-debatable point that Turkey really brings nothing of worth to the table.

[The Destroyer]

I wonder why haven't some people taken lessons from the past. The Turks did nothing for Bosnia, just bridges. And in the Bosnian War, there was no Turkish help.

I don't think The Destroyer's opinion is representative for all of Bosniaks.

But if they choose Turkey over the people who protected them against genocidal maniacs, it is still their choice. Only time will show if it pays out.

Protected? :picard1::picard2::confused:

Please don't speak about topics you have clearly zero knowledge about.

Britain and France voted to impose a weapons embargo on the Bosnian Army and are thus directly complicit in everything the Chetniks did. The Dutch were the best friends of the Chetniks in Srebrenica, they took selfies with them and drank beer with Mladić when they attacked. Germany proposed that the capitol of Sarajevo should be a part of the so-called Serb Republic, French and British forces in Central Bosnia fought with Catholic Croat terrorists against Bosnian Army, etc.

Literally they only western nation that helped us was USA. Please go watch a documentary or read a book. The West fully supported the Serbian agression and genocide.

[Profileid]

I think there is at least one thing we can all agree on: The USA's influence is not wanted anywhere in Europe, and not in the Balkan either.


The only country I would accept in influencing region is US, it's only country in the world who was able to solve very sensitive issues in Balkans, Russia was and will remain a troublemaker, so I'd reject categorically their influence here.

Neither Kosovo or many Kosovars, maybe some who are posting right now, would not exist without the grace of the US.

[EuropeanVlachSon]

I think there is at least one thing we can all agree on: The USA's influence is not wanted anywhere in Europe, and not in the Balkan either.

Talk to yourself. Without USA influence, the russians would play kalinka in East Europe.

[The Destroyer]

I think there is at least one thing we can all agree on: The USA's influence is not wanted anywhere in Europe, and not in the Balkan either.

Once again, you're wrong. It's incredible how pretty much everything you said on this thread turned out wrong.

Bosnia, Albania and Kosovo have excellent relationships with USA, American influence is the only thing keeping the region safe from a new war.

[The Destroyer]

Who said those are democratic choices? I very much doubt it. People don't go willingly into slavery. You should rather move to Saudi Arabia if you want such things. They don't belong anywhere in Europe.

They do, my eurocentric orientalist friend. Look at Europe in 1939 :) :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88Bosi4vKEw

[Profileid]

90% of Kosovo residents approve of the US leadership

http://i.imgur.com/qsF186L.png
http://i.imgur.com/1Nyqx3z.png
http://www.gallup.com/poll/142631/Worldwide-Leadership-Approval.aspx

[EuropeanVlachSon]

Once again, you're wrong. It's incredible how pretty much everything you said on this thread turned out wrong.

.


He actually post on my profile reputation posts and he say I am a russian hater. Lol, everyone who is against totalitarism, is russian hater. I probably know more about Russia history than him.
Russian need a new Peter the great, if they will have, they will become again a strong cultural european country, with the corrupt clowns from now, they cant become again the great empire from Peter the great era.

[Ujku]

Once again, you're wrong. It's incredible how pretty much everything you said on this thread turned out wrong.

Bosnia, Albania and Kosovo have excellent relationships with USA, American influence is the only thing keeping the region safe from a new war.

Yes , but we need to leave that influence on the past. Our future is only the EU and nothing else.


Americans will only be on our side as long as we are in their interests.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

We are not talking about 2017 man , in the coming decades Balkans will be a heaven for them.

Also guess what happens if Central Europeans close their borders?? They are stuck with us.

And Serbs have no more that much influence , we live in 2017 and not in 1950s were Serbs were way richer and had way more people. Albanians are more united than ever before nowdays and our economies are growing way faster than theirs.

I'd suggest to follow news from region more, look at recent event with FYROM for eg. which Serbia pulled out own staff due Russia most likely to influence FYROM so the agenda to join NATO would a secondary issue or at least remain neutral for a while, these latest events are not positive sign for Albanians because the more Serbian/Russian influence the weaker our position becomes, what you say about unitary state might work elsewhere but never in Balkans, certainly not between nations who have entirely opposite objectives.

No need to be a fearmonger, immigrants pose the least danger for Balkans, its even laughable to claim that.

[Pennywise]

Make the B*lkans Ottoman again.

[Mraz]

"women are paid to wear the full veil in public,”"

This is hard to believe.

Kurz (sounds similar to cock in Bosnian) lies of course.
Even if they were paid it's not a genetical nazi that will tell Bosniaks or Kosovars what to do in their own land and it's those sovereign countries job to allow or forbid this kind of attire.
Islamic union of Bosnia sent a note to the Austrian government mentionning that several Wahabi/Salafi organizations' seats are located in Vienna and are not bothered by the authorities...

[Profileid]

Yes , but we need to leave that influence on the past. Our future is only the EU and nothing else.


Americans will only be on our side as long as we are in their interests.

That goes for literally every single alliance ever.

[Lucia]

I welcome that change. I'm a proud Muslim, Communism has destroyed our traditional way of life. I have nothing against you returning to your Catholic roots either.

And before you tell me how this "Saudi culture" is "imported", here is a very short history lesson:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88Bosi4vKEw

Bosnia & Herzegovina will soon have to be changed on the inside, by that I meant administrative divisions, not whatever you've posted.

[Ujku]

I'd suggest to follow news from region more, look at recent event with FYROM for eg. which Serbia pulled out own staff due Russia most likely to influence FYROM so the agenda to join NATO would a secondary issue or at least remain neutral for a while, these latest events are not positive sign for Albanians because the more Serbian/Russian influence the weaker our position becomes, what you say about unitary state might work elsewhere but never in Balkans, certainly not between nations who have entirely opposite objectives.

No need to be a fearmonger, immigrants pose the least danger for Balkans, its even laughable to claim that.

Mam wtf?? Do you want to see your daughter date a black man???? And have black grandchildren??

Africa for Africans , Europe for Europeans.

I have nothing against them i just don't want them in my ancestors lands.

[Gizem]

90% of Kosovo residents approve of the US leadership

http://i.imgur.com/qsF186L.png
http://i.imgur.com/1Nyqx3z.png
http://www.gallup.com/poll/142631/Worldwide-Leadership-Approval.aspx

It's only strategic. Just because they approve of US leadership does not necessarily mean they embrace American ideals.

Turks literally worshipped Americans during the Cold War when Communists were antagonized and Americans were seen as savior, but nowadays anti-American sentiments are on the rise because our interests clash and America is aiding Kurdish militants and Russia is buttered up.

So my point is, America invested in different places counting on conjunctural circumstances but these all can change.

America can only get stronger by spreading its ideals and way of life.

[Lavrentis]

Protected? :picard1::picard2::confused:

Please don't speak about topics you have clearly zero knowledge about.

Britain and France voted to impose a weapons embargo on the Bosnian Army and are thus directly complicit in everything the Chetniks did. The Dutch were the best friends of the Chetniks in Srebrenica, they took selfies with them and drank beer with Mladić when they attacked. Germany proposed that the capitol of Sarajevo should be a part of the so-called Serb Republic, French and British forces in Central Bosnia fought with Catholic Croat terrorists against Bosnian Army, etc.

Literally they only western nation that helped us was USA. Please go watch a documentary or read a book. The West fully supported the Serbian agression and genocide.

What I said in my post, was things that Bosniaks themselves say on social media platforms like Reddit etc.

And even if the only Western nation that helped Bosnia was USA, then that's enough evidence of who Bosnia should side with.

And the fact that Turks didn't helped you at all is still true.

[Ujku]

That goes for literally every single alliance ever.


Americans should stay in their country. Greater EU is coming and this time Albanians won't be under Ottoman rule.

[Gizem]

Mam wtf?? Do you want to see your daughter date a black man???? And have black grandchildren??

Africa for Africans , Europe for Europeans.

I have nothing against them i just don't want them in my ancestors lands.

Your daughter is not your property, she can marry whoever she wants. You should drop that old-fashioned mentality if you talk about getting attached to America.

[The Destroyer]

Bosnia & Herzegovina will soon have to be changed on the inside, by that I meant administrative divisions, not whatever you've posted.

You failed to change it in 1993 with Karadžić and Chetniks as your allies, you are more then welcome to try and change it again. Anyone who tries to create a third entity is digging mass graves for Ustasha children, as they will not survive a new war.

[Profileid]

Americans should stay in their country. Greater EU is coming and this time Albanians won't be under Ottoman rule.


You will be under German rule instead. Admittedly an improvement over Turks. But you are a fool if you think they will advocate for you like the US.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Mam wtf?? Do you want to see your daughter date a black man???? And have black grandchildren??

Africa for Africans , Europe for Europeans.

I have nothing against them i just don't want them in my ancestors lands.

With this mentality you can easily resettle in Albania and you'd have no nightmares black guy dating your daughter because we are literally poor to attract immigrants, immigrants want a nanny state who will support them and their families financially, Balkan doesn't offer that.

I might understand people who comes from countries who are overrun by African immigrants but not you.

[Ujku]

Your daughter is not your property, she can marry whoever she wants. You should drop that old-fashioned mentality if you talk about getting attached to America.

Imagine having black kids ffs...no person in the world wants kids that don't look like him.

[Ujku]

With this mentality you can easily resettle in Albania and you'd have no nightmares black guy dating your daughter because we are literally poor to attract immigrants, immigrants want a nanny state who will support them and their families financially, Balkan doesn't offer that.

I might understand people who comes from countries who are overrun by African immigrants but not you.

Dude i said 100 times that I'm not talking about nowdays.. The population of Africa will triple , those people will have no farm land , no jobs , no place to stay. Albania will be a heaven for them , we need to prepare for this.

[Gizem]

Imagine having black kids ffs...no person in the world wants kids that don't look like him.

Whether you approve of it or not is one thing but you have no right to intervene in her choices.

[Babak]

Mam wtf?? Do you want to see your daughter date a black man???? And have black grandchildren??

Africa for Africans , Europe for Europeans.

I have nothing against them i just don't want them in my ancestors lands.

Unfortunately since the west is taking over cultural influence, i dont think this really applies anymore, even in the mena tbh with you bro

[Lucia]

You failed to change it in 1993 with Karadžić and Chetniks as your allies, you are more then welcome to try and change it again. Anyone who tries to create a third entity is digging mass graves for Ustasha children, as they will not survive a new war.

As I said, you and Serbs are going to force changes upon yourselves with your behaviour. You are going to be the only ones to thank to. It's not because of the Croats, it's because you're dumb.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Imagine having black kids ffs...no person in the world wants kids that don't look like him.

You reduced debate to a irrational fear, you said you want a unitary state at first but I fail to realize how a multiethnic state where you'd become a minority willingly makes you feel much safer from eventual immigrants, if standard of livings improves that bigger state won't prevent immigrants from coming? So how'd benefit you exactly?

[Ujku]

You will be under German rule instead. Admittedly an improvement over Turks. But you are a fool if you think they will advocate for you like the US.

Germans lost 2 world wars and half of their country got destroyed yet they managed to become Europes strongest economy and one of the best places to live.

The whole Europe will become 1 country , we can't avoid this. In fact the whole world will split into Alliances it's the next step of evolution.

After many years those Alliances will merge with each other and the Alliance of Earth will rise to face the Alliance of mars. Although it sounds scifi , it's actually a step of evolution.

[Ujku]

You reduced debate to a irrational fear, you said you want a unitary state at first but I fail to realize how a multiethnic state where you'd become a minority willingly makes you feel much safer from eventual immigrants, if standard of livings improves that bigger state won't prevent immigrants from coming? So how'd benefit you exactly?

To be honest i don't know..this conversation got really weird.

The future is scary man Africans will triple their population , Indians will keep growing while Europeans will keep dying.

But you are really negative , why the fuck would you want to stay in the small nation of Kosovo instead of a huge Pan European country???

[The Illyrian Warrior]

To be honest i don't know..this conversation got really weird.

The future is scary man Africans will triple their population , Indians will keep growing while Europeans will keep dying.

But you are really negative , why the fuck would you want to stay in the small nation of Kosovo instead of a huge Pan European country???

I'm aware that Africans population is exploding but what can we do?!

I don't want solely a small Kosova for myself, I'd be only satisfied living in one united Albanian state, what other countries do doesn't concern me unless it affects me directly.

[Profileid]

Germans lost 2 world wars and half of their country got destroyed yet they managed to become Europes strongest economy and one of the best places to live.
Because of the MARSHALL PLAN. DO YOU KNOW WHO PAID FOR THAT?

The largest recipient of Marshall Plan money was the United Kingdom (receiving about 26% of the total), followed by France (18%) and West Germany (11%).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

The whole Europe will become 1 country , we can't avoid this. In fact the whole world will split into Alliances it's the next step of evolution.

After many years those Alliances will merge with each other and the Alliance of Earth will rise to face the Alliance of mars. Although it sounds scifi , it's actually a step of evolution.

Why's that dawg? How does that benefit people?

[Ujku]

I'm aware that Africans population is exploding but what can we do?!

I don't want solely a small Kosova for myself, I'd be only satisfied living in one united Albanian state, what other countries do doesn't concern me unless it affects me directly.


A united Albania would still be really small...we need a united Europe of 600 million people and not a country of 6. The thing is that it's really coming , Albania will be in the EU by 2025 and Germant is already prelaring for a EU army.

[Ujku]

Because of the MARSHALL PLAN. DO YOU KNOW WHO PAID FOR THAT?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan


Why's that dawg? How does that benefit people?

Tribes/vilages/cities/kingdoms/countries/continental alliances/ planetery alliances/ solar system alliances etc , this is the order that it goes.

It's evolution, people need to feel that they belong somewhere and that they are stronger than someone else.

Also come on..what Germany did in such a short period of time is remarkable.

[EuropeanVlachSon]

Because of the MARSHALL PLAN. DO YOU KNOW WHO PAID FOR THAT?



Not just the germans got money from Marshall plan

[Loki]

90% of Kosovo residents approve of the US leadership

http://i.imgur.com/qsF186L.png
http://i.imgur.com/1Nyqx3z.png
http://www.gallup.com/poll/142631/Worldwide-Leadership-Approval.aspx

I see, at least Trump has good support there, then.

[The Destroyer]

As I said, you and Serbs are going to force changes upon yourselves with your behaviour. You are going to be the only ones to thank to. It's not because of the Croats, it's because you're dumb.

No, it's because you're backstabbing traitors and Chetniks. The day you allied with Serbs in 1993 and invaded Bosnia (several HV brigades from Croatia were attacking my town) was the day you said goodbye to any sort of deal with Bosniaks.

We're not dumb, we are well aware of everything. We will non-violently opress you until you break out into violence, thus giving us a legitimate excuse to clean up your refuse. You have two choices:

1. do nothing and disappear slowly via low birth rates, high death rates and emigration into Croatia and EU,

2. try to make armed revolution and be ethnically cleansed in a few months war.

Both works for us, I don't care which you choose.

[Loki]

Kurz (sounds similar to cock in Bosnian) lies of course.
Even if they were paid it's not a genetical nazi that will tell Bosniaks or Kosovars what to do in their own land and it's those sovereign countries job to allow or forbid this kind of attire.
Islamic union of Bosnia sent a note to the Austrian government mentionning that several Wahabi/Salafi organizations' seats are located in Vienna and are not bothered by the authorities...

I'm just curious though... why does Wahhabism and Salafism have a foothold in Bosnia? It's only due to Saudi money of course. But surely you must agree, that is very un-European and un-Bosnian even. Those customs belong in the desert.

[catgeorge]

Germans are the only ones that can unite Europeans.

Germans are good engineers but the most hopeless of leaders. Always have been hopeless leaders always will be.

[Loki]

Germans are good engineers but the most hopeless of leaders. Always have been hopeless leaders always will be.

Ever heard of Adolf Hitler? :D ;)

[catgeorge]

Ever heard of Adolf Hitler? :D ;)

He lost - not so much of elite leadership there.

[Loki]

He lost - not so much of elite leadership there.

I was kidding. But I'm not so sure about your generalisation, though. Who are good leaders then in your view?

[Ujku]

Ever heard of Adolf Hitler? :D ;)

If Hitler wasn't a genocidal maniac he would be the next Napoleon or Alexander lol.

He managed to fight and win everybody in all sides.

[The Destroyer]

I'm just curious though... why does Wahhabism and Salafism have a foothold in Bosnia? It's only due to Saudi money of course. But surely you must agree, that is very un-European and un-Bosnian even. Those customs belong in the desert.

You didn't answer me, is this un-European and un-Bosnian? Sarajevo in 1939 (look at the women):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88Bosi4vKEw

[Loki]

You didn't answer me, is this un-European and un-Bosnian? Sarajevo in 1939 (look at the women):



1939 is not 2017. In the olden days even Christian women wore headscarves.

[catgeorge]

I was kidding. But I'm not so sure about your generalisation, though. Who are good leaders then in your view?

Soldier Kings that shape the future for the betterment - only the best for Europe

Julius Ceasar
Alexander the Great
Charles Martel
Napoleon Bonaparte


Europe has not had a leader since the early 19th century.

[The Destroyer]

1939 is not 2017. In the olden days even Christian women wore headscarves.

Whatever. My point is that both modernization and going back to the roots is our internal thing. Whether we will drink beer and go around naked or grow beards and put on headscarfes is our internal national issue.

[Loki]

You didn't answer me, is this un-European and un-Bosnian? Sarajevo in 1939 (look at the women):


Anyway I see what you mean -- I didn't know they wore a full veil before, so your point is valid.

[Loki]

Soldier Kings that shape the future for the betterment - only the best for Europe

Julius Ceasar
Alexander the Great
Charles Martel
Napoleon Bonaparte


Europe has not had a leader since the early 19th century.

I don't see what was so great about Napoleon Bonaparte. Go ask the Dutch what they think of him. Also, the Russians beat his Grande Armee, and he died in humiliation on Saint Helena as a prisoner. Not much better than Hitler.

Oh and Charles Martel was a German, a Frank.

[Lucia]

No, it's because you're backstabbing traitors and Chetniks. The day you allied with Serbs in 1993 and invaded Bosnia (several HV brigades from Croatia were attacking my town) was the day you said goodbye to any sort of deal with Bosniaks.

We're not dumb, we are well aware of everything. We will non-violently opress you until you break out into violence, thus giving us a legitimate excuse to clean up your refuse. You have two choices:

1. do nothing and disappear slowly via low birth rates, high death rates and emigration into Croatia and EU,

2. try to make armed revolution and be ethnically cleansed in a few months war.

Both works for us, I don't care which you choose.

Honey, I live in Croatia, you and your goatfuckers certainly won't opress ''me''.

What you just wrote just confirms the low intelligence stereotype about Bosnians...
There won't be an armed revolution on the Croatian side. The borders within Bosnia and Herzegovina will be redrawn, whether the Bosniaks and Serbs like it or not. If there will be a conflict, it certainly won't come from the Croats, but the dissatisfied Serbs and Bosniaks. Whose side do you think the West would take this time? Maybe the Serbs who are led by a mentally unstable clown? Or maybe the Bosniaks who train and send them jihadis?

[Loki]

Honey, I live in Croatia, you and your goatfuckers certainly won't opress ''me''.

What you just wrote just confirms the low intelligence stereotype about Bosnians...
There won't be an armed revolution on the Croatian side. The borders within Bosnia and Herzegovina will be redrawn, whether the Bosniaks and Serbs like it or not. If there will be a conflict, it certainly won't come from the Croats, but the dissatisfied Serbs and Bosniaks. Whose side do you think the West would take this time? Maybe the Serbs who are led by a mentally unstable clown? Or maybe the Bosniaks who train and send them jihadis?

What do you mean by "The West"? LOL Fuck "The West".

[Lucia]

What do you mean by "The West"? LOL Fuck "The West".

The West which helped us the last time against the barbarians but for some reason told us to stop halfway through.

[Óttar]

I like the Austrians (remember the Hapsburgs) and Russia being the most massive Slavic country can stake territorial claims in SE Europe. Anyone but Turkey; they have betrayed Ataturk's ideals and so therefore are forever to be counted among the barbarians.

[Profileid]

fuck turkey. turkey is shit and you know it sandnigger. that's why you pretend to be from the steppe and live in germany

[The Destroyer]

Honey, I live in Croatia, you and your goatfuckers certainly won't opress ''me''.

What you just wrote just confirms the low intelligence stereotype about Bosnians...
There won't be an armed revolution on the Croatian side. The borders within Bosnia and Herzegovina will be redrawn, whether the Bosniaks and Serbs like it or not. If there will be a conflict, it certainly won't come from the Croats, but the dissatisfied Serbs and Bosniaks. Whose side do you think the West would take this time? Maybe the Serbs who are led by a mentally unstable clown? Or maybe the Bosniaks who train and send them jihadis?

Who helped you? America drew you like a dog on a leash and forced Tuđman to sign Washnington agreement.

The borders cannot be re-drawn without war, try as much as you want, some attempts to pass such laws in Bosnian Parliament have already miserably failed, and any other law they send will fail again. Every breathing Bosniak, from far-left to far-right voted against it. It's the first thing that 6 Bosniak political parties agreed upon.

This means the Bosnian Parliament is a no-go for you. What's next, Mostar "balvan revolucija"? Maybe Šešelj was right about the Catholic Serb theory.

[Lucia]

Who helped you? America drew you like a dog on a leash and forced Tuđman to sign Washnington agreement.

The borders cannot be re-drawn without war, try as much as you want, some attempts to pass such laws in Bosnian Parliament have already miserably failed, and any other law they send will fail again. Every breathing Bosniak, from far-left to far-right voted against it. It's the first thing that 6 Bosniak political parties agreed upon.

This means the Bosnian Parliament is a no-go for you. What's next, Mostar "balvan revolucija"? Maybe Šešelj was right about the Catholic Serb theory.

Lol, Bosnian parliament. Like our former prime minister said in those audio leaks, and I must agree with him on this, Bosnia is one big shit that you don't even know who's in charge of the country.
While you and your fellow goatfuckers are living in the clouds, our president and our government are heavily lobbying in the EU, the US and the international community to change the Dayton agreement. All that you're left with is to deny that it's coming, despite the fact it's an open secret that the US have plans to change it.

You keep suggesting that the Croats are going to start some kind of a revolution, but it won't happen because they won't have a reason to start one.

[Loki]

The West which helped us the last time against the barbarians but for some reason told us to stop halfway through.

What do you mean stopped halfway?

[Lucia]

What do you mean stopped halfway?

Once we liberated the occupied Croatian territories, there was still a potential to go further into Bosnia, but it didn't get a green light.

[Mraz]

I'm just curious though... why does Wahhabism and Salafism have a foothold in Bosnia? It's only due to Saudi money of course. But surely you must agree, that is very un-European and un-Bosnian even. Those customs belong in the desert.

It doesn't have a foothold actually, the Islamic union of Bosnia is institutionalized Islam they are the one who allow someone to be imam or not, mosques are regulated by laws etc, they have the monopoly over religion. Few months ago they just asked the government to close all the mosques that were outside their juriduction to avoid such behaviors and self proclaimed imams.
About the niqab, it's mainly tourists who wear that and not local women. I don't see the point of such clothes, but I'm not going to tell people how to dress, especially when those are tourists who bring money.

[Loki]

Once we liberated the occupied Croatian territories, there was still a potential to go further into Bosnia, but it didn't get a green light.

Go further and do what?

[Lucia]

Go further and do what?

Liberate.

[Loki]

Liberate.

Liberate Bosnia from the Bosnians? :D

[Lucia]

Liberate Bosnia from the Bosnians? :D

Just from those who committed horrible crimes against the Bosnian Croats who lived in that area.

[The Destroyer]

Lol, Bosnian parliament. Like our former prime minister said in those audio leaks, and I must agree with him on this, Bosnia is one big shit that you don't even know who's in charge of the country.
While you and your fellow goatfuckers are living in the clouds, our president and our government are heavily lobbying in the EU, the US and the international community to change the Dayton agreement. All that you're left with is to deny that it's coming, despite the fact it's an open secret that the US have plans to change it.

You keep suggesting that the Croats are going to start some kind of a revolution, but it won't happen because they won't have a reason to start one.

Nope, advisor for Balkan of American Secretary Rex Tillerson (Bryan Hoyt Lee) has said that, in their eyes, Bosnia is "one country, three people and two entities".

That was last month, 2 days ago American ambassador Maureen Cormack in Bosnia has repeated his statement.

British ambassador Edward Ferguson has said in interview on state television clearly that Britain doesn't support third entity.

So, that's USA and Britain down for you. I don't know about the others.

Personally, i like your overconfidence. Everyone likes an overconfident enemy, Tuđman and Boban were the same.

I'm not going to repeat like a parrot that genocidal so-called HB is impossible without war, because I don't have to. Ask your kinsmen who live in Bosnia if they believe that they can make it without conflict. That will be enough.

[Lucia]

Nope, advisor for Balkan of American Secretary Rex Tillerson (Bryan Hoyt Lee) has said that, in their eyes, Bosnia is "one country, three people and two entities".

That was last month, 2 days ago American ambassador Maureen Cormack in Bosnia has repeated his statement.

British ambassador Edward Ferguson has said in interview on state television clearly that Britain doesn't support third entity.

So, that's USA and Britain down for you. I don't know about the others.

Personally, i like your overconfidence. Everyone likes an overconfident enemy, Tuđman and Boban were the same.

I'm not going to repeat like a parrot that genocidal so-called HB is impossible without war, because I don't have to. Ask your kinsmen who live in Bosnia if they believe that they can make it without conflict. That will be enough.

I never even mentioned a third entity, I mentioned changes in the Dayton agreement. That can include more rights and protection for the Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina or the reconstruction of the administrative divisions. Considering you and Serbia lost the original documents of the Dayton agreement, it appears it's only Croatia who even cares about it. So I guess when you can't even keep an eye on the document which your country was based upon, why would it bother you if it changes? :confused:

[The Destroyer]

I never even mentioned a third entity, I mentioned changes in the Dayton agreement. That can include more rights and protection for the Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina or the reconstruction of the administrative divisions. Considering you and Serbia lost the original documents of the Dayton agreement, it appears it's only Croatia who even cares about it. So I guess when you can't even keep an eye on the document which your country was based upon, why would it bother you if it changes? :confused:

Whatever, I've heard hundreds of your kinsmen here talk like that, their story was the same in 1997 and 2017, it will be the same in 2027.

Meanwhile - number of Catholics in Bosnia (source - Catholic Church):

2006: 463.131
2007: 459.102
2008: 454.921
2009: 448.147
2010: 443.013
2011: 443.084
2012: 435.562
2013: 432.177
2014: 420.294
2015: 405.735
2016: 390.241

[Mraz]

Liberate.

Waiting mighty Croatian army to bring democracy and gay parade in Bosnia :rolleyes: