R1b pie charts

[hereward]

Below are some pie charts illustrating the various R1b subclades for England and its regional samples. The data used has been gathered from the recent Myres et al paper. The pie charts only show figures for subclades downstream of mutation R-M269.

England National - This pie graph has been created by combining the regional samples together. The figures on the edge of each colour represent the percantage of the population that are members of the a certain subclade, eg if R-U152 = 22, then 22% of males tested in a particular region are members of said subclade.
According to this paper, of 102 men sampled in England, 71.5% tested positive for R-M269.

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6127/r1bengland.png

England Central - 25 samples - 60% R-M269.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3738/r1benglandcentral.png

North England -28 samples - 78.2% R-M269

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4281/r1benglandnorth.png

SouthEast England - 25 samples - 76% R-M269

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4905/r1benglandsoutheast.png

Southwest England - 24 samples - 70.9% R-M269

http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/2210/r1benglandsouthwest.png

[hereward]

Ireland National - 99 samples - 82.82% R-M269

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/9402/image001u.png

Ireland North - 21 samples - 75.9% R-M269

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7933/image001ia.png

Ireland West - 16 samples - 100% R-M269

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/179/image001i.png

Ireland Southwest - 22 samples - 73.1% R-M269

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/2323/image001ym.png

Ireland South - 24 samples - 87.4% R-M269

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3141/image001ql.png

Ireland East - 16 samples - 81.4% R-M269

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1294/image001oz.png

[Curtis24]

so what ethnic group would R-M269 be associated with?

[Pallantides]

so what ethnic group would R-M269 be associated with?

It's highest frequency is in Western Europe and among the Bashkir peoples of the southern Ural Mountains.


European R1b is dominated by R-M269. It has been found at generally low frequencies throughout central Eurasia, and with relatively high frequency among Bashkirs of the Bashkortostan and Perm region (84.0%)

[Curtis24]

Ah, I didn't R-M269 was so common. So I"m assuming you can't pinpoint if it was brought to England by the Megalith builders, the Celts, the Anglo-Saxons, or the Vikings. Darn.

[Pallantides]

R-M269 have many subclades.




R-U106(R1b1b2a1a1) is very common among Germanic speaking populations.

[hereward]

Below are R1b pie graphs for France; the first five represent 1 natioanl and 4 regional graphs of which the national graph has been made from. The last four graphs represent samples of 4 departments from the Southeast of France. They have been excluded from the French National graph, as this would create a heavy regional bias.

R-P312* includes both R-P312* proper (undefined) and other confirmed subclades not identified in this paper. These unidentified subclades would be downstream of R-M153, R-M167 etc.

French National - 93 samples - 57.01% R-M269

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1228/image001wx.png

France West - 14 samples - 57.1% R-M269

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/7519/image001e.png

France South - 38 samples - 60.4% R-M269

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/1729/image001ii.png

France East - 25 samples - 60% R-M269

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1142/image001dt.png

France ?l - 16 samples - 43.7% R-M269

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7641/image001b.png

France Southeast

Alpes-de-Haute-Provence - 31 samples - 80.7% R-M269

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9636/image001m.png

Bouches du Rhone (at mouth) - 207 samples - 68.2% R-M269

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/6951/image001hw.png

Var (coastal, east of Rhone) - 68 samples - 66.1% R-M269

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8674/image001gi.png

Vaucluse (upstream Rhone) - 61 samples - 60.7% R-M269

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/8756/image001ee.png

[hereward]

so what ethnic group would R-M269 be associated with?

None, it is the mutation that nigh on all European R1b stems from. Pallantides has mentioned those who carry R-M269*,R-L23* (undefined).

[hereward]

Below are the Graphs for Spain, its regions and Portugal.

Spain National - 454 samples - 51.75% R-M269

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9468/image001ij.png

Andalusia - 127 samples - 56% R-M269

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/7641/image001b.png

Cantabria - 131 samples - 48.11% R-M269

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/933/image001wy.png

Castille & Leon - 83 samples - 57.8% R-M269

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4955/image001j.png

Valencia - 113 samples - 46.1% R-M269

http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/879/image001o.png

Portugal - 100 samples - 57% R-M269

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/508/image001nf.png


As mentioned with France, some of Spain and Portugal's R-p312* will be R-M153 and R-M167, but I think most of it will be R-P312* proper, I look forward to future papers regarding this matter.

[hereward]

Regarding tags, R1b is NOT Germanic, only certain subclades of subclades can be possibly attached to any Meta-etnicity/Ethnicty. So far perhaps R-M222, R-U198 and a few others.

[hereward]

Below are the German regions from the paper plus a German National graph compiled from the regions.

Germany National - 321 samples - 43.88% R-M269

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/174/image001zk.png

Germany Westl - 100 samples - 54% R-M269

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/1957/image001lg.png

Germany North - 64 samples - 32.7% R-M269

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4794/image001hi.png

Germany East - 47 samples - 38% R-M269

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1699/image001w.png

Germany ? - 19 samples - 36.7% R-M269

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/296/image001rj.png

Germany South - 91 samples - 44.9% R-M269

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4295/image001q.png

[hereward]

The Denmark total is based on the 5 regions from the paper. The Swedish graph is based on a sample taken from Malmo.

Denmark National - 110 samples - 36.36% R-M269

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/605/image001aw.png

Denmark West - 19 samples - 37% R-M269

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/8170/image001cl.png

Denmark North- 42 samples - 47.2% R-M269

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8444/image001uf.png

Denmark East - 17 samples - 29.4% R-M269

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/461/image001fn.png

Denmark Island (East) ? - 10 samples - 10% R-M269

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/2927/image001mf.png

Denmark Southeast - 22 samples - 31.7% R-M269

http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/7519/image001e.png

Netherlands National - 87 samples - 52.88% R-M269

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/5589/image001ir.png

Sweden South (Malmo) National - 139 samples - 19.44% R-M269

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/6308/image001f.png

[hereward]

Czech Republic - 87 samples - 21.6% R-M269

http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/1572/image001z.png

Slovakia - 276 samples - 16.2% R-M269

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1654/image001p.png

Hungary - 113 samples - 20.3% R-M269

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7271/image001l.png

Romania - 330 samples - 12% R-M269

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/9094/image001c.png

[hereward]

Below you will find graphs for Belarus and Poland; both national graphs have been compiled by combing the data from their respective regions.

Belarus

Belarus National- 196 samples - 6.34% R-M269

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7209/image001n.png

Belarus West - 97 samples - 7.3% R-M269

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8983/image001t.png

Belarus Northeast - 99 samples - 6% R-M269

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1572/image001z.png

Poland

Poland National - 202 samples - 18.35% R-M269

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8999/image001jh.png

Poland West - 15 samples - 33.3% R-M269
Ignore the title of the graph, it should read Poland West as opposed to Poland South

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/508/image001nf.png

Poland North - 17 samples - 23.6% R-M269

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5874/image001xp.png

Poland East - 13 samples - 15.4% R-M269

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/7271/image001l.png

Poland ?- 42 samples - 21.4% R-M269

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/2703/image001ps.png

Poland South - 22 samples - 22.6% R-M269

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6708/image001eo.png

Poland Southwest (Wroclaw) - 13 samples - 21.6% R-M269

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/9721/image001em.png

[Ibericus]

Regarding tags, R1b is NOT Germanic, only certain subclades of subclades can be possibly attached to any Meta-etnicity/Ethnicty. So far perhaps R-M222, R-U198 and a few others.
R-M222 is Irish. The germanic subclade is U106 since it peaks in germanic counries and P-312/R-S116 is considered the Celtic branch :

"R-S116 shows maximum Y-STR diversity in France and Germany but maximum frequency in Iberia and the British Isles. In the latter region it is represented mainly by R-M529 with the R-M222 subclade being particularly prominent in Ireland but also North England. It would be interesting to see data for Scotland, and I do not doubt that R-M222 would be prominent there as well. R-S116 also shows signs of being a Celtic, or Celtiberian-related lineage."

European Journal of Human Genetics doi: 10.1038/ejhg.2010.146

[Ibericus]

so what ethnic group would R-M269 be associated with?
R-M269 is too wide to be attached with ethnic groups, however, the more frequent subclades of R-M269, which are only found in Western Europe, are the U106 branch, considered Germanic, and the P312/S16 branch considered proto-Celt

[hereward]

Estonia- 210 samples - 8.7% R-M269

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/179/image001i.png

Karelians - 194 samples - 2% R-M269

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8910/image001bw.png

Komi - 61 samples - 13.1% R-M269

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4955/image001j.png

Sammi - 35 samples - 5.7% R-M269

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8924/image001gw.png

Vepsas - 39 samples - 2.6% R-M269

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8816/image001is.png

[hereward]

R-M222 is Irish. The germanic subclade is U106 since it peaks in germanic counries and P-312/R-S116 is considered the Celtic branch :

"R-S116 shows maximum Y-STR diversity in France and Germany but maximum frequency in Iberia and the British Isles. In the latter region it is represented mainly by R-M529 with the R-M222 subclade being particularly prominent in Ireland but also North England. It would be interesting to see data for Scotland, and I do not doubt that R-M222 would be prominent there as well. R-S116 also shows signs of being a Celtic, or Celtiberian-related lineage."

European Journal of Human Genetics doi: 10.1038/ejhg.2010.146

I would agree R-M222 is Irish, though there are minor frequencies in France, Germany and Sweden; could be the result of recent individual migrations. I would also say that R-S168, another subclade of M529, appears to be Irish. R-M222 has also been found in Scotland, with high frequencies in the West. This could be the result of both the Historic Gaels and modern Irish immigration; most of the Irish in Scotland hail from Ulster and Northern Leinster.
The Subclades of R-P312 (S116) are too widespread for R-P312 to attached to any meta-ethnicity; it probably pre-dates any ethnogenesis of any current European population. R-M529 is found outside of the British Isles, featuring prominently in the R1b make up of France, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden etc. I would say that the other subclades of M529, those defined and undefined, will shed more light on the ethnogenesis matter.
I cannot agree that R-U106 is entirely Germanic, though I would agree that some of its subclades are, e.g. R-U198 and R-L1. Looking at the information present, it could be that a subclade/s of R-U106 is indigenous to the populations of Eastern Europe.

[hereward]

Both the Russian and Ukrainian National Graphs have constructed by combing the data from their respective regional samples.

Russia

Russia National - 1037 samples - 4.84% R-M269

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/9402/image001u.png

Russia North - 380 samples - 5.76% R-M269

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/4862/image001le.png

Russia Central - 263 samples - 5.64% R-M269

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6788/image001k.png

Russia South - 394 samples - 3.3% R-M269

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/8480/image001pa.png


Ukraine

Ukraine National - 504 samples - 5.75% R-M269

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7519/image001e.png

Ukraine West- 156 samples - 8.3% R-M269

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3479/image001r0.png

Ukraine Western Central- 178 samples - 6.2% R-M269

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/6919/image001ov.png

Ukraine Central- 114 samples - 2.7% R-M269

http://img574.imageshack.us/img574/6482/image001h.png

Ukraine East - 56 samples - 3.6% R-M269

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/879/image001o.png

[hereward]

Croatia - 108 samples - 13% R-M269

http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/3664/image001kw.png

Serbia - 113 samples - 9.8% R-M269

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4794/image001hi.png

Slovenia - 102 samples - 18.4% R-M269

http://img574.imageshack.us/img574/4295/image001q.png

Macedonia - 79 samples - 0.51% R-M269

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1729/image001ii.png

Bosnia - 78 samples - 1.3% R-M269

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2917/image001dh.png

Herzegovina - 141 samples - 2.8% R-M269

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3804/image001js.png

Kosovo - 114 samples - 21.1% R-M269

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6603/image001cz.png

Roma (Macedonia) - 57 samples - 1.8% R-M269

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7786/image001ro.png

[hereward]

Italy National - 282 samples - 37.22% R-M269

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/9909/image001uw.png

Italy North - 124 samples - 48.3% R-M269

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3092/image001gb.png

Italy ? - 34 samples - 52.9% R-M269

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5676/image001y.png

Italy South - 124 samples - 21.7% R-M269

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7271/image001l.png

Greece - 185 samples - 21.77% R-M269

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7766/image001mi.png

Crete - 193 samples - 17% R-M269

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/183/image001tf.png

[Ibericus]

Here is the excel file of the study :

[Vasconcelos]

I'm supprised there is such a differece between (mainland) Greece and Crete. :)

[hereward]

Switzerland National - 175 samples - 52.57% R-M269

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1/image001qn.png

Switzerland Northwest - 27 samples - 55.5% R-M269

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9360/image001kx.png

Switzerland Northeast - 32 samples - 56.2% R-M269

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8941/image001bm.png

Switzerland ? - 16 samples - 62.6% R-M269

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4737/image001kc.png

Switzerland Upper Rhone Valley - 33 samples - 54.6% R-M269

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/3730/image001se.png

Switzerland Lower Rhone Valley - 51 samples - 41.3% R-M269

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1699/image001w.png

Switzerland South - 16 samples - 62.6% R-M269

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8840/image001wq.png

[Liffrea]

Would love to know more about my R1b, the only thing I know is that it is too rare to belong to a clade and that I share it with one other in the Orkney’s.

[Pallantides]

Sammi - 35 samples - 5.7% R-M269

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8924/image001gw.png



I wonder if R-U106 in the Saami is very ancient or from mixing with Norse people in more recent times.

[Äike]

I wonder if R-U106 in the Saami is very ancient or from mixing with Norse people in more recent times.

Quite probably very ancient, when we take into consideration their ancient Western/Basque heritage.

[Ibericus]

Quite probably very ancient, when we take into consideration their ancient Western/Basque heritage.
Basques are not U106, they are mostly M153, M167, P312

[Äike]

Basques are not U106, they are mostly M153, M167, P312

Now they are, maybe 10 000 years ago, they weren't.

[Ibericus]

Now they are, maybe 10 000 years ago, they weren't.
U-106 is mostly germanic, I doubt they were U106. Btw saamis are only 4% R1b

[hereward]

Now they are, maybe 10 000 years ago, they weren't.

What ever they are now, the Basques, nor their ancestors, were ever R-U106, for the vast bulk of their male R1b lies downstream of R-P312


I wonder if R-U106 in the Saami is very ancient or from mixing with Norse people in more recent times.

If recent admixture with Norwegians and Swedes alone was responsible for the presence of R-U106 then I would also expect more R1b diversity. On the other hand, if I was to consider R1b to be 'old' amongst the Saami then I would envisage that R1b to be consisting of R-L23* and/or R-M412* subclades, not R-U106. It is possible that the Saami from Norway possess not only higher frequencies of R1b, but also more diversity. Will we have to wait for more sample analysis, more subclade analysis and clarity on mutation ages.

[Kalgart]

I noticed the Greek L23* numbers do not correlate with the spreadsheet (Myres et al. 2010) and was just wondering whether there is a mistake somewhere. The spreadsheet shows 14 L23* from the King study and 1 L23* from another study. The pie chart indicates a much lower number [8 individuals of 185] for Greece.

[Ebeneezer]

"According to this paper, of 102 men sampled in England, 71.5% tested positive for R-M269."

"Other R1b subclades - Not included on the graph, but the subclades above count for 80.33% of R1b in England as a whole."

if 71.5% of the 102 men sampled in England tested positive for R-M269, and the subclades in the first chart count for 80.33% of the R1b in England as a whole, then that would mean that 91.17% of Englishmen inherit R1b of some kind or another.

[justme]

I'm sorry do you have any reference for all this?

[Cody Gearhart]

Guys what about R-U198?

[Peterski]

Hereward,

Do you know where did Myres et al. collect their samples for Poland from?

In their paper of 202 men sampled in Poland, 18.35% tested positive for M-269.

I noticed considerable differences in % of R1b and R1a in Poland from study to study.

Recently Underhill et al. reported only 45,9% (50 osób ze 109) of R1a in Poland.

Data for Poland ranges from 46/18 of R1a/R1b to even 57/12 of R1a/R1b (roughly from 45/20 to 60/10). Regional differences in proportions are even bigger, but this is expected - while such large differences in samples supposedly representing entire country are annoying.

I guess these distinct proportions result from different areas of collecting samples in each study, and thus there are large differences in percentages for each haplogroup. Apparently samples are never as large and representative for the whole country as they should be.

IMHO a minimal sample of ca. 5892 people from 220 cities would be good for Poland:

On avg. ca. 10 people from each city over 20,000 (= 1340 or 22,74%)
On avg. ca. 22 people from each city over 50,000 (= 1034 or 17,55%)
On avg. ca. 44 people from each city over 100,000 (= 968 or 16,43%)
On avg. ca. 150 people from each city over 200,000 (= 2550 or 43,28%)

This would quite accurately represent almost half of its population:

There were 220 cities >20,000 in Poland had almost half of its pop. (in 2008):

20,000-49,999 - 134 cities / with 11,0% of pop. (22,8% in this group)
50,000-99,999 - 47 cities / with 8,4% of pop. (17,4% in this group)
100,000-199,999 - 22 cities / with 8,0% of pop. (16,6% in this group)
over 200,000 - 17 cities / with 20,8% of pop. (43,2% in this group)

Total - 220 cities / with 48,2% of Polish pop. (100% in this group)

After that, a small "adjusting" sample can also be collected from rural areas and towns under 19,999 people, to account for differences in urbanization between regions (if we collect samples only from cities and towns over 20,000 then few most urbanized regions will be overrepresented and few least urbanized ones underrepresented, compared to their respective shares among the total population of the country). They can even take samples of random size from each city, but then adjust proportions of results according to each city's share in entire population.

[Graham]

i'd imagine there has been a bit of change since 2010. Perhaps Artek would be the best person to ask on Polish Ydna.

[Peterski]

Perhaps, I must ask him.