Plan to replace Estonia's conscription-based army with one that relies on professional soldiers.

[esaima]

IRL Chairman, Defense Minister Blast Reform's Army Plan

Both IRL chairman Mart Laar and Defense Minister Jaak Aaviksoo have sharply criticized a Reform Party plan to replace Estonia's conscription-based army with one that relies on professional soldiers.

The plan, announced on December 11, envisions initially cutting the period of conscription down to six months from its current eight to eleven months, and eventually phasing it out altogether.

Aaviksoo said that Estonia had gone to great lengths to build up a fully functioning national defense system, which could potentially call up 50,000 trained soldiers if the country were to come under attack, reported uudised.err.ee. With a professional army, he said, only get a tenth of that number would be available.

For his part, Laar said that the proposal to abolish compulsory military service was as silly as the Centre Party's continuing call to introduce a progressive income tax.

"After Russia's onslaught against Georgia one would have assumed that Estonia had moved beyond this idea. Our current security model is functioning and sound, ensuring a good balance between conscripts and professional soldiers. Thanks to common effort, the government has managed to secure funding for national defense. For that reason, it's difficult to understand why they've started playing this old record," said Laar.

The vocal split on this issue between IRL and Reform, respectively the smaller and larger partners in the ruling coalition, comes less than three months before the March 6 general election.

Laar lumped the plan in with other pre-election promises which he said were "not only foolish but downright dangerous."

"The election seems to have brought confusion to otherwise sensible people," he said.

http://news.err.ee/

[The Ripper]

What are the opinions of our resident Estonians? The same debate has gone in Finland since the collapse of the USSR at least, both by proponents and opponets of NATO. Proponents want us to join NATO, (red) opponents just want to undermine anything that reeks of that foul thing, nationhood.

[Äike]

Conscription is necessary, it shouldn't be replaced and it probably will not be replaced in the next 80 years.

[esaima]

yes I also support conscription-based army.The reasons: well, our chances against... some bigger neighbours are close to null but one has to show the world what at least one tried.Thus a real army is necessary for Estonia, not a "security service".The second reason: i think an army, how to say, makes boys real men.


probably will not be replaced in the next 80 years.
hehe, who knows: if the Reform party gets more than 50 per cent of seats in the elections they can do everything.

[Äike]

hehe, who knows: if the Reform party gets more than 50 per cent of seats in the elections they can do everything.

If they do everything they want, then they'll completely ruin their relationship with Isamaa ja Res Publica Liit. The odds of the Reform party getting over 50 percent of the votes are close to zero. They may be the most popular party, but not that popular.

[The Ripper]

The second reason: i think an army, how to say, makes boys real men.

I also think that while the primary role of the army is to protect the territorial integrity of a nation, it also serves other purposes. General conscription is one of the few remaining "national rites" that remain. ;)

Also, a Finnish saying about the army: the army makes men out of boys and bachelors out of men (tekee pojista miehiä ja miehistä poikamiehiä). ;)

[poiuytrewq0987]

"After Russia's onslaught against Georgia one would have assumed that Estonia had moved beyond this idea.

lol. That only happened because Georgia committed genocidal acts on the Russians and Ossetians living in South Ossetia. Though should Estonia do the same to Russians in Tallin and Narva then... :D

[Äike]

lol. That only happened because Georgia committed genocidal acts on the Russians and Ossetians living in South Ossetia.

Genocidal acts... lol

Let me guess, they were rounded up into concentration camps, but the Georgians had no time to throw them into the gas chambers, because the Russians arrived?


Though should Estonia do the same to Russians in Tallinn and Narva then... :D

We should send them back to Russia in cramped animal wagons, without food and water. In the same way as countless Estonians were sent to Siberia. Right?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Genocidal acts... lol

Let me guess, they were rounded up into concentration camps, but the Georgians had no time to throw them into the gas chambers, because the Russians arrived?

There's more than one method of genocide y'know.


We should send them back to Russia in cramped animal wagons, without food and water. In the same way as countless Estonians were sent to Siberia. Right?

How are the Russians to blame for Estonians resisting the Russian occupation? If you don't want to be sent to Siberia then don't resist, simple, duh. Secondly, if Estonians ever tried that then Estonia would be bombed to oblivion, sorry. :)

[Äike]

How are the Russians to blame for Estonians resisting the Russian occupation? If you don't want to be sent to Siberia then don't resist, simple, duh. Secondly, if Estonians ever tried that then Estonia would be bombed to oblivion, sorry. :)

Thanks to Estonian resistance in 1944, tens of thousands Estonians could flee to Sweden or Germany, from the oncoming Soviet genocide, which was already familiar to Estonians from 1940.

The Estonian population losing a big chunk of its population because of true genocide, is no joking matter.

I advise you to stop trolling this thread.

[Vasconcelos]

Consctiption is great to have a military-trained populace, which is useful if you have troublesome neighbours, like Greece does, in the case of Estonia thesedays, I don't think it's really needed. Besides, it's more expensive than keeping a smaller army of professionals.

Portugal did the same thing a few years ago.

[Loki]

Estonia does not have any enemies near its border, but yes conscription is a good way to make men out of boys.

[Piparskeggr]

If you do not mind an "American" butting in?

There is a tradition in my family of volunteering going back to the colonial militias of the 1630's to the modern Reserve forces of now...as well as service in the "Regular" military and naval forces.

I prefer the classic Swiss model, where every able-bodied citizen is a member of the Militia of the Whole, with a smaller, very professional core.

I believe and think that a nation can maintain its sovereignty much more readily with a citizenry universally trained AND armed.

[The Ripper]

Consctiption is great to have a military-trained populace, which is useful if you have troublesome neighbours, like Greece does, in the case of Estonia thesedays, I don't think it's really needed. Besides, it's more expensive than keeping a smaller army of professionals.

Portugal did the same thing a few years ago.

With all due respect, Estonia isn't Portugal, and Russia isn't Spain. Whenever there is war in Europe, Estonia and the Eastern European plains in general tend to get over-run by one or several armies. In case of war, its better to have a trained popular army. ;)

[The Lawspeaker]

The actual reason why they do it is this: then Estonian soldiers can die for the NWO while no one really cares as those that are then getting enlisted are hirelings.
A citizen army is a political liability for the NWO.

[Äike]

The actual reason why they do it is this: then Estonian soldiers can die for the NWO while no one really cares as those that are then getting enlisted are hirelings.
A citizen army is a political liability for the NWO.

Conscripts aren't sent to Iraq or Afghanistan... Just the entire male population would be mobilized, if any hostile power would attack Estonia.

[Eldritch]

What's Estonia going to do with a small professional elite force? This plan is downright ridiculous, without even any conceivable upside.

[Groenewolf]

What's Estonia going to do with a small professional elite force? This plan is downright ridiculous, without even any conceivable upside.

I could conceive that they have a professional elite force besides a conscript force. Considering the size of the country they need a well trained populace as well as elite combat force of an airborne or other nature.

[Äike]

I could conceive that they have a professional elite force besides a conscript force. Considering the size of the country they need a well trained populace as well as elite combat force of an airborne or other nature.

Of course, the professionals are in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[EWtt]

I'm pretty confident we won't be adopting an army that relies on professional soldiers - wasn't the statistics something like 93% of the population being supportive of conscription? If the Reform party thinks they'll get votes for this idea, it's their matter...

I personally support conscription - not because I think it makes men out of boys (although I do think it helps develop a sense of order and discipline), but a small nation like Estonia needs a well-trained population and plenty of motivation to stand against any enemy, no matter how many times they outnumber and outgun us. I'd place special attention on guerilla warfare training, but I suppose we already know about that necessity... ;)

[poiuytrewq0987]

If you do not mind an "American" butting in?

There is a tradition in my family of volunteering going back to the colonial militias of the 1630's to the modern Reserve forces of now...as well as service in the "Regular" military and naval forces.

I prefer the classic Swiss model, where every able-bodied citizen is a member of the Militia of the Whole, with a smaller, very professional core.

I believe and think that a nation can maintain its sovereignty much more readily with a citizenry universally trained AND armed.

I don't believe that idea is practical in a multi-ethnic state like the USA.

[The Ripper]

I don't believe that idea is practical in a multi-ethnic state like the USA.

Or Switzerland?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Or Switzerland?

Switzerland's peoples are not that different compared to the USA.

[The Lawspeaker]

Switzerland's peoples are not that different compared to the USA.
Four languages, four ethnic groups. But they still consider themselves Swiss.

[Loki]

If you do not mind an "American" butting in?


Of course not! We are not biased against American posters and views here. :)