90% of world's engineers will be in Asia by 2010.

[Joe McCarthy]

This is an article from 2006 but it echoes forecasts made in Mark Bauerlein's The Dumbest Generation that engineering graduates is rapidly becoming an Asian, especially Chinese, affair. What problems this poses for the West and Europe should be extremely obvious...

http://blog.trinetizen.com/wordpress/?p=129


90percent of world’s engineers will be in Asia by 2010

Posted on January 11, 2006

Filed Under Uncategorized

from Control Engineering January 4, 2006

In a speech to San Jose State University’s College of Engineering, James W. Bagley, chairman of Lam Research Corp. addressed the U.S.’ diminishing capability to maintain competitive manufacturing leadership and parity.

….when mobilized, the U.S. can accomplish near miracles. The solution is simple: convincing political leaders that the results of the U.S.’ degenerating, competitiveness problem can be far greater than the national disasters—such as have been recently experienced. And it’s probably a greater threat to the country than some of the ideologies that the U.S. is currently confronting.

He focused on China, which now is becoming competitive in manufacturing technology, software and engineering capability across the spectrum, physics, chemistry, and biotechnology. Whether through design or luck, China has co-opted the largest retail organization—WalMart—into being its worldwide distribution system. The result of this distribution capability has been a disruptive transformation in balances of trade virtually across the globe and has allowed China to become a country with substantial foreign currency reserves. As anyone in business knows, market access is an imperative and is usually achieved through substantial investment and hard work. China got their warehousing, distribution, and retail outlets at no cost.

During these 20 years, what was happening in the U.S.? It has promoted fair trade, open-market access, lower duties, and so on. U.S. motivations were positively based, expecting open trade improvements to the economies of most of the third-world countries, allowing them to be markets for U.S. life-enriching products based on U.S.-developed intellectual property and value-added services which would in turn improve the standard of living of U.S. citizens. The result has been somewhat different from what was envisioned 20 years ago.

The U.S. is outsourcing manufacturing at an alarming rate. China is creating manufacturing jobs at a rate equivalent to the entire U.S. manufacturing workforce each year. The U.S. is facilitating that growth rate by outsourcing its manufacturing jobs to China in order to compete with Chinese goods derived from U.S.-created intellectual property.

Examples from Lam Research and the semiconductor industry:

■Approximately 80% of (Lam Research’s) advanced etcher systems are sold and installed in Asia.
■Three companies in Taiwan are building more leading-edge 300mm plants than are being built in the United States. The vast majority of the leading-edge 300mm facilities being built in the world are being built in Asia.
■(The U.S. has) gone from the largest market for semiconductors and the largest producer of semiconductors to a deteriorating second place when compared to Asia.

Some recent eye-opening information from Jay Pinson, dean emeritus of San Jose State was:


■Today the U.S. graduates about 55,000 engineers a year—with the rate declining for the last 20 years;
■Both law and business students graduate at about three times this rate (about 330,000 in the aggregate);
■India graduates 300,000 engineers annually;
■China mints 350,000 new engineers each year; and
■Aggravating the situation is the fact that, of the U.S.’ 55,000 graduates, a meaningful percentage are foreign nationals who may or may not stay in the United States.
The U.S. cannot compete with India and China on a raw-numbers basis, nor should it—look at a combined 650,000 engineering graduates as opposed to its 55,000—because India and China are competitors. What the U.S. should focus on is dramatically increasing the number of its engineering and science graduates in those areas where it can develop and maintain a competitive advantage.

Projected over time, the engineering graduate gap, by 2010, will result in over 90% of the world’s engineers living in India, China, and the rest of Asia. This is underscored by the large number of U.S. engineering graduates now retiring, who were motivated to engineering careers due to the space race that began with the 1958 launching of Sputnik….

[antonio]

When I see (at zapping) the typical engineering yankee program on things like build efficient cars and notice more than 50% of engineers are Charlies I just want to believe Anglosaxons are on more lucrative things like Finances or Politics. But, I bet it's not the majority fucking case. A nice solution would be to impose pro-white racial policies on wisest Leftist&Liberal shitholes like MIT, for example a 75% percentage of whites would be fair. I swear inventive and competitivity of the States would not be eroded :cool:

[Guapo]

Asia is the new West.

[Joe McCarthy]

Asia is the new West.

If anything signals the eclipse of the West, this is it. Our decline in conjunction with Asia's rise is the greatest threat on the table.

[antonio]

When I see a Einstein charlie or a Picasso charlie I would concede. Till then, West will be West.

BTW being a new Picasso or a new Einstein is and always will be harder than never before, I bet not even cloned originals would accomplish that.:cool:

[Guapo]

If anything signals the eclipse of the West, this is it. Our decline in conjunction with Asia's rise is the greatest threat on the table.

Blacks ain't no threat to the US, chinks are.

[Austin]

What exactly is an engineer? So many things come to mind :)


Plumbers make three times what they used to now because nobody wants to be a plumber. Our family friend makes 100k a year as a plumber when most college grads will be lucky to make 40k starting off.

[Joe McCarthy]

What exactly is an engineer? So many things come to mind :)


Plumbers make three times what they used to now because nobody wants to be a plumber. Our family friend makes 100k a year as a plumber when most college grads will be lucky to make 40k starting off.

I doubt plumbing is much of a priority at these universities:

http://www.study-in-china.org/ChinaEducation/TopUniversity/2009842243524775.htm

http://www.studyoverseaschina.com/technology%20_education%20in%20_china.html

This gives some idea of what they are up to:


Technology Education in China:
The “Win or Nothing” Mantra in Chinese Classrooms
Leave no one behind—that’s just something unheard of when it comes to education in China. Learning is defined as a competitive experience. From an early age, students are encouraged to excel each other, and sciences and math classes are often used as the core programs to identify the extraordinaire from the mediocre. After all, in a country of 1.3 billion, you just gotta compete—and compete well—to succeed.


Now let’s fast-forward to see what it’s like when these students reach college age. Often the crème de la crème from their high school graduating class, engineering freshmen in China are expected to have come with a solid grasp of various design principles right from the first day of class. College is, well, just another testing ground to determine who’s the best among equal. When these students graduate from college, they are certain to form a formidably reliable and low-cost workforce that has been key in helping China become an outsourcing powerhouse in merely a decade


China is today the largest producer of engineering graduates in the world, with some 600,000 passing out of its colleges and universities last year.
Compared to India and China, the United States produces only 70,000 engineering graduates every year. All of Europe produces just 100,000.

Chinese engineering and technology have developed rapidly since the founding of the People's Republic of China in 1949. This growth has been especially dramatic following the adoption of national reform and openness policies nearly 20 years ago. Our nation has trained a large number of skilled engineers and technicians across a range of disciplines. These professionals have played a major role in the development of the national economy, in the continuous improvement of quality of life for all Chinese, and in the advancement of science and technology around the world.

[hereward]

The 'Western' Nations have spent most of the last 50 years transferring their wealth and technology to the third world. I do not believe this transfer to be the result of a grand design as such, though a lot of the actions of western Governments, be they derived from domestic or international policy, have played there part in facilitating this transfer.
I cannot understand how economists and historians alike break into to purple verse when discussing the 'Opening of China’; it has catapulted China to the forefront of Nations at our collective expense. All in a few decades, no logic whatsoever

[Cato]

http://www.2002china.net/china_columns/ancient_china/chinawallarge.gif

Big whoop, as if China roaring like a dragon is to be feared (since they call themselves the Descendents of the Dragon). The chinkers lived as coolies (compared to whites) for years because they lagged behind the west (for centuries) and, now that they're on the rise, you all think it's the end of the world.

Yet, legends abounded in the west about about the Seres (Lands of Silk) as early as Megas Alexandros and the Romans carried on a lively trade with Han-era China.

Chinese aren't niggers, you know. Are they dangerous? Yes. But they're also civilized, and the respect they've got for western (i.e. white) people is something you never comment on.

What China has is the ethnic solidarity and national will that legions of white power freaks jack off about, thus China is stronger than she's been since, oh, Qing Dynasty times. The overwhelming majority of Han Chinese keep the dozens of ethnic minorities in line via the state jackboot and China = Han or Huaxia (a single ethnic group, divided amongst many tribes, and with a history going back to well into the neolithic times).

In this way, we whites can learn from the Chinese (or are we just gonna moan about how the only other civilized race on earth is out-civilizing us?). The Chinese found their national identity more than 30 centuries ago; we whites still haven't done it, since we still piss and moan, bitch and groan, about who's more Nordic than someone else.

There's a comment in the Mencius about making barbarians into Chinese; unlike us, the Chinese don't value race, tribe, ethnicity, and blood as being superior; they value culture (i.e. Sinicization) as being superior. Is it any wonder why China still exists, when Rome itself bottomed out and collapsed? What the Chinese are doing is absorbing the best of our culture, the west, and using it to make themselves stronger.

So.. Stop fearing dragons and turn into a Saint George and slay the dragon. Or learn to accept the dragon as your equal (which I do, since no other race on earth impresses me as the Han people do). Or become a dragon yourself, ala Matteo Ricci.

[Austin]

http://www.2002china.net/china_columns/ancient_china/chinawallarge.gif

Big whoop, as if China roaring like a dragon is to be feared (since they call themselves the Descendents of the Dragon). The chinkers lived as coolies (compared to whites) for years because they lagged behind the west (for centuries) and, now that they're on the rise, you all think it's the end of the world.

Yet, legends abounded in the west about about the Seres (Lands of Silk) as early as Megas Alexandros and the Romans carried on a lively trade with Han-era China.

Chinese aren't niggers, you know. Are they dangerous? Yes. But they're also civilized, and the respect they've got for western (i.e. white) people is something you never comment on.

What China has is the ethnic solidarity and national will that legions of white power freaks jack off about, thus China is stronger than she's been since, oh, Qing Dynasty times. The overwhelming majority of Han Chinese keep the dozens of ethnic minorities in line via the state jackboot and China = Han or Huaxia (a single ethnic group, divided amongst many tribes, and with a history going back to well into the neolithic times).

In this way, we whites can learn from the Chinese (or are we just gonna moan about how the only other civilized race on earth is out-civilizing us?). The Chinese found their national identity more than 30 centuries ago; we whites still haven't done it, since we still piss and moan, bitch and groan, about who's more Nordic than someone else.

There's a comment in the Mencius about making barbarians into Chinese; unlike us, the Chinese don't value race, tribe, ethnicity, and blood as being superior; they value culture (i.e. Sinicization) as being superior. Is it any wonder why China still exists, when Rome itself bottomed out and collapsed? What the Chinese are doing is absorbing the best of our culture, the west, and using it to make themselves stronger.

So.. Stop fearing dragons and turn into a Saint George and slay the dragon. Or learn to accept the dragon as your equal (which I do, since no other race on earth impresses me as the Han people do). Or become a dragon yourself, ala Matteo Ricci.


Oh yes I agree 100%. I like it that China is rising because they clearly are civilized and worthy of such a position. I have no qualms about their rise to be honest. I very much admire China and Chinese people and yes it is true that they respect Europeans greatly. Many Europeans respect them equally so and their culture.

I see the two having a great alliance in the future perhaps against lesser aspects.

[Bloodeagle]

http://www.2002china.net/china_columns/ancient_china/chinawallarge.gif

Big whoop, as if China roaring like a dragon is to be feared (since they call themselves the Descendents of the Dragon). The chinkers lived as coolies (compared to whites) for years because they lagged behind the west (for centuries) and, now that they're on the rise, you all think it's the end of the world.

Yet, legends abounded in the west about about the Seres (Lands of Silk) as early as Megas Alexandros and the Romans carried on a lively trade with Han-era China.

Chinese aren't niggers, you know. Are they dangerous? Yes. But they're also civilized, and the respect they've got for western (i.e. white) people is something you never comment on.

What China has is the ethnic solidarity and national will that legions of white power freaks jack off about, thus China is stronger than she's been since, oh, Qing Dynasty times. The overwhelming majority of Han Chinese keep the dozens of ethnic minorities in line via the state jackboot and China = Han or Huaxia (a single ethnic group, divided amongst many tribes, and with a history going back to well into the neolithic times).

In this way, we whites can learn from the Chinese (or are we just gonna moan about how the only other civilized race on earth is out-civilizing us?). The Chinese found their national identity more than 30 centuries ago; we whites still haven't done it, since we still piss and moan, bitch and groan, about who's more Nordic than someone else.

There's a comment in the Mencius about making barbarians into Chinese; unlike us, the Chinese don't value race, tribe, ethnicity, and blood as being superior; they value culture (i.e. Sinicization) as being superior. Is it any wonder why China still exists, when Rome itself bottomed out and collapsed? What the Chinese are doing is absorbing the best of our culture, the west, and using it to make themselves stronger.

So.. Stop fearing dragons and turn into a Saint George and slay the dragon. Or learn to accept the dragon as your equal (which I do, since no other race on earth impresses me as the Han people do). Or become a dragon yourself, ala Matteo Ricci.

I can't stand those commie carp eaters! :D
We'll see how much they respect us once they get powerful enough to make war with us. :rolleyes:
Why is China cranking out Engineers? It's all about global domination and to the winner goes the spoils.

[The Ripper]

And for years we've been providing them with free education, on top of allowing our industries to be dismantled, packed-up, and shipped there. :coffee:

We give them our jobs, and teach them how to do 'em! Brilliant idea! We're going to produce.. services.

[Cato]

I can't stand those commie carp eaters! :D
We'll see how much they respect us once they get powerful enough to make war with us. :rolleyes:
Why is China cranking out Engineers? It's all about global domination and to the winner goes the spoils.

Or because the history of engineering in China goes back to legendary times, like to the era of Yu the Great?

[Curtis24]

China has severe social tensions between classes and regionally, and won't be able to use their vast talent in an organized way.

I don't buy the "China as superpower" thing, never have. It ignores too much about the reality of American power..

[Austin]

China has severe social tensions between classes and regionally, and won't be able to use their vast talent in an organized way.

I don't buy the "China as superpower" thing, never have. It ignores too much about the reality of American power..


Yes this is overlooked. China doesn't have the entrepreneurial spirit of the European either. Most if not all of Chinese industry was shipped and packaged over from the West and then nationalized and or copied. They didn't create even 20% of what they have technology wise or industry wise but instead photocopied it all and put a made in China label on it.

Chinese and Asian people do not on average think outside the box, their average person is extremely tunnel-vision based. They excel at what they were trained or studied, like a drone to it's task, but there is very little if any thought or perceived reason given to creating or innovating on average unless that was part of their initial training.

I used to play online games near religiously and one thing became overly apparent about all true-Asian people. They aren't all that gifted or skilled on average they just hone-in and dedicate themselves to the stated goal 110%...... whatever that happens to be. An Asian person, even a female as astounding as it was, will raid with their guild 7 nights a week for five hours every night then when all the Westerners have their items and log-off and go to bed the Asian person will teleport to a random zone and farm for gold meticulously for another five hours and throw their findings up on the auction house then go to bed, even the females. It is truly astounding, they give their all to whatever they do, compromising completely what are in their minds trivialities in comparison such as sleep/social lives/social interaction/deviation from anything that will mean they won't have the most uber-health pots in the next raid. They wouldn't even care if one of the Westerners tagged along and leeched off their gold/item farming session as they knew we would eventually give in to weak desires of real life and abandon them to their farming which sure enough we always did eventually and they'd laugh and go another 3 hours.

Here is an example. As in the video, a random Westerner will usually watch to try to learn how to better farm from the dedicated drone-like Chinese gold farmers. Chinese, even the ones who aren't payed to and play for recreation, can 'farm' virtual items in a game meticulously for hours on end, many of whom then sell the virtual gold in the game for real life money to other players, usually pooling their 'farmed' gold with other farmers for maximum profit.k1BCXp94NR8

[Curtis24]

Those things are interesting. If you ever get the chance, I'd recommend reading the book "Geopolitical Forecast for the 20th Century", by George Friedman. I will begin posting excerpts from it, once I get it.

One of Friedman's main points is that China will "fragment"(i.e. break up into several different political states) arouind 2020. He claims this will happen because the Chinese do not have any loyalty to a Chinese state or communism; their temprorary loyalty is bought by promises of economic growth and a higher standard of living; and when the the Chinese government fails to deliver these things(which they will do to China's economy being built on bad loans), China will degenerate into different economic spheres dominated by Western corporations.


Def. a must read.

[Cato]

China has severe social tensions between classes and regionally, and won't be able to use their vast talent in an organized way.

I don't buy the "China as superpower" thing, never have. It ignores too much about the reality of American power..

The Chinese don't want to be a superpower, I think China just wants to be able to avoid being in a position like its been in the past.

[Austin]

The Chinese don't want to be a superpower, I think China just wants to be able to avoid being in a position like its been in the past.


Claimed stands for "When we can we will take it" as Tibet found out.


http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2929/45552694southchinasea46.gif

[Cato]

You folks who assume that China wants to dominate the world need to understand how the Chinese think in terms of how they view the world, past and present.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianxia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_Heaven

China is supposedly communist, but the idea all under heaven and the mandate of heaven still influence, subtly, how the Han view the world and their place in it. The Chinese don't want to "own" the rest of the world, but they want a respected place in it and, more importantly, China wants to be the "boss" in territories that are traditionally "under heaven" (i.e. a part of the Sinosphere).

[Austin]

You folks who assume that China wants to dominate the world need to understand how the Chinese think in terms of how they view the world, past and present.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianxia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_Heaven

China is supposedly communist, but the idea all under heaven and the mandate of heaven still influence, subtly, how the Han view the world and their place in it. The Chinese don't want to "own" the rest of the world, but they want a respected place in it and, more importantly, China wants to be the "boss" in territories that are traditionally "under heaven" (i.e. a part of the Sinosphere).

I don't at all deny this. They do live by it and take it to heart but I don't buy for 5 seconds that they are inherently different from any other historical political entity that realized there is another world out there and had the power to take it. They just aren't capable yet on a sustainable level against the U.S.

[Cato]

I don't at all deny this. They do live by it and take it to heart but I don't buy for 5 seconds that they are inherently different from any other historical political entity that realized there is another world out there and had the power to take it. They just aren't capable yet on a sustainable level against the U.S.

Let China rise as the U.S. falls, that's the way of things.

He [God] puffs up nations and wrecks them, blotting them out in their pride.

That simple statement, taken from Job, is an example of "all under heaven." China has risen and fallen and risen again, many times beyond counting. The glories of the Han Dynasty gave way the the era of the Three Kingdoms, which gave way to the Jin Dynasty, which fell and ushered in centuries of war.. All of which was simply the precursor to the Tang Dynasty, arguably the high point of Chinese civilization.

I don't view the issue in geopolitical terms; I just view it was one "under heaven." As America exits the stage, due to its own pride and exaltation, new powers will rise- if one of these new powers is an old power (i.e. China), who am I to argue with God?

[Curtis24]

The Chinese don't want to be a superpower, I think China just wants to be able to avoid being in a position like its been in the past.

well, Friedman's argument is that China will def. be in the same position it was in the past, i.e. divided into economic spheres by different powers.

I think he's probably right. his basic argument is that trade creates social instability in China, so theoretically under that schema China could close up to try to keep the country together, a la Cultural Revolution.

also, I don't think the U.S. is in decline, despite its mistakes. Rome had a string of godawful emperors shortly after the creation of its empire; yet its geography and resources were so powerful that it could sustain them. I think America is basically the same way right now.

[Bloodeagle]

Or because the history of engineering in China goes back to legendary times, like to the era of Yu the Great?
As if European engineering is some recent invention. Look to Stonehenge and other megalithic structures that are far older than the era of Yu the Great.
Not to mention the wonders of the Greeks and Romans.

Blah, the Chinese are out to destroy the west.

[Austin]

I don't think China needs to destroy the West or even wants to. I think they want equality with it and to dominate their side of the world. I think they will achieve this and it would be best if we partnered with them now instead of fight them on it. Let China have the East already it is a forgone conclusion they are going to take it anyways best we not have several wars over it.

[Bloodeagle]

I don't think China needs to destroy the West or even wants to. I think they want equality with it and to dominate their side of the world. I think they will achieve this and it would be best if we partnered with them now instead of fight them on it. Let China have the East already it is a forgone conclusion they are going to take it anyways best we not have several wars over it.

F*ck that noise!

Don't think for a moment that the Chinese are bound by some antiquated philosophical hogwash about Ying and Yang and the teachings of Confucius or Buddha.
Tell this to any American veteran of the Korean conflict who fought with the China man, face to face!

If the Chinese where to "own Asia" as you predict, then their next stop is the US states of Hawaii and Alaska, followed by Western Canada, and the West Coast of the United States.

[Joe McCarthy]

Originally Posted by Austin
Yes this is overlooked. China doesn't have the entrepreneurial spirit of the European either. Most if not all of Chinese industry was shipped and packaged over from the West and then nationalized and or copied. They didn't create even 20% of what they have technology wise or industry wise but instead photocopied it all and put a made in China label on it.

Chinese and Asian people do not on average think outside the box, their average person is extremely tunnel-vision based. They excel at what they were trained or studied, like a drone to it's task, but there is very little if any thought or perceived reason given to creating or innovating on average unless that was part of their initial training.


The notion that the Chinese are uncreative and unable to innovate is discredited by their history. This courtesy of Prof. Rushton:

http://tia-mysoa.blogspot.com/2010/07/race-mixing-iq-and-future.html


As early as 360 B.C., the Chinese used the cross bow and changed the face of warfare. Around 200-100 B.C., the Chinese used written exams to choose people for the civil service, two thousand years before Britain. The Chinese used printing about 800 A.D., some 600 years before Europe saw Gutenberg’s first Bible. Paper money was used in China in 1300, but not in Europe until the 19th and 20th centuries. By 1050 Chinese chemists had made gunpowder, hand grenades, fire arrows, and rockets of oil and poison gas. By 1100, factories in China with 40,000 workers were making rockets. Flame throwers, guns, and cannons were used in China by the 13th century, about 100 years before Europe.

The Chinese used the magnetic compass as early as the 1st century. It is not found in European records until 1190. In 1422, seventy years before Columbus’s three small ships crossed the Atlantic, the Chinese reached the east coast of Africa. They came in a great fleet of 65 ocean going ships filled with 27,000 soldiers and their horses, and a year’s supply of grain, meat, and wine. With their gunpowder weapons, navigation, accurate maps and magnetic compasses, the Chinese could easily have gone around the tip of Africa and “discovered” Europe!

[Joe McCarthy]

also, I don't think the U.S. is in decline, despite its mistakes. Rome had a string of godawful emperors shortly after the creation of its empire; yet its geography and resources were so powerful that it could sustain them. I think America is basically the same way right now.

The proper measurement of a state's power is not in absolute terms but its power relative to other states. Not only is the US losing power, it is even losing it in its own hemisphere:

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/10-signs-the-us-is-losing-its-influence-in-the-western-hemisphere-535456.html?tickers=eem,ewz,fxi,eeb,jjm,%5Edji,xle

Theorists on hegemony in IR theory have long noted this loss of relative power. The ongoing debate now is whether the US is still a hegemon.

[Joe McCarthy]

Originally Posted by Pallamedes
I don't view the issue in geopolitical terms; I just view it was one "under heaven." As America exits the stage, due to its own pride and exaltation, new powers will rise- if one of these new powers is an old power (i.e. China), who am I to argue with God?


You may not view it in geopolitical terms, but I can assure you the United States government certainly does. Moreover, dominant states do not just kick back and allow rising states to eclipse them, especially given the hostility of the Chinese leadership to the United States. Take this gem from Chi Haotian:

http://books.google.com/books?id=QsD4qzKJzxkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+china+threat+gertz&source=bl&ots=O5AMAaK3Bv&sig=usAIBBFusqGtYdxqlgEVeh9Z6uA&hl=en&ei=pAUJTe6LKYSosQPClpn3Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false


Seen from the changes in the world situation and the United States' hegemonic strategy for creating monopolarity, war is inevitable. We cannot avoid it. We must make sure that we win this local high-tech war against aggression and interference; win this modern high-tech war that [the] military bloc, headed by US hegemonists, may launch to interfere in our affairs militarily; and win this war ignited by aggressor countries' sudden offensives against China. We must be prepared to fight for one year, two years, or even longer.

The general tone among the military leadership in the PLA is quite belligerent, ranging from pronouncements of a desire for revenge against the US, to a need to wait and bide their time until they are strong enough to challenge us, and even threats to nuke us. The question is whether the PLA leadership will get the upper hand. The civilian leadership tends to be somewhat more moderate - for now.

[Joe McCarthy]

Rather dated but interesting nonetheless.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=7091


America's 'war' with China

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: March 08, 2000
1:00 am Eastern


By Charles Smith
© 2010 WorldNetDaily.com




The war begins at dawn as over 100,000 invasion troops, in three massive waves, surge across narrow waters to find a morning beachhead on the Taiwanese shores. The first wave of 100,000 red troops is soon followed by up to seven more waves of 100,000 Chinese soldiers, for a total of eight Chinese armies hurled into a terrific assault.
As part of the pre-invasion attack, huge numbers of People's Liberation Army Air Force jets streak across the waters to bomb Taiwanese air bases. In the skies, hundreds of missiles, and thousands of MiGs overwhelm the small Taiwanese Air Force. One or two of the bases continue to function but are soon swept aside by the tide of red MiGs.

Taiwanese cities are seen on global television taking direct hits from missile after missile, launched by the 2nd Artillery Corps from inside the Chinese mainland. One or two of the Asian cities disappear in a blinding flash, as nuclear-tipped missiles take out strategic ports and critical military facilities.

In and around the skies of Taiwan, U.S., Japanese and Asian ally fighter jets frantically hurl themselves in fruitless attacks to stem the tide. F-117A Stealth bombers fly bold and effective strikes from Okinawa until a direct hit from a Chinese ballistic missile closes the base and kills thousands.

At sea, a massive force of U.S. carriers converges from two different directions; one from the Indian Ocean and another from across the Pacific. The forces are soon spotted by Chinese satellites using purchased American technology and are targeted.

Each group is attacked by waves of Chinese bombers and missiles one thousand miles from Taiwan, with each wave growing larger as they approach.

In the end, the Chinese sink two nuclear aircraft carriers and a major portion of the U.S. fleet in a grinding assault of suicide planes. All is lost. Taiwan falls and begins a dark period of subject occupation by the communist forces. America enters a protracted war with China.

This scenario has been played out at the highest levels inside the Pentagon, using advanced war game systems. It does not end well for America. However, one other war game recently played inside the defense establishment had a very different result.

There are many Chinese military weaknesses, but there is one critical weak link in its plan to take Taiwan, that of submarine warfare. The leader in submarine war is America, and despite the years of Clinton neglect, the U.S. Navy silent service still rules supreme over the world's oceans.

There is one and only one hope that can stem the tide -- sink the landing ships full of PLA troopers and save Taiwan. The American Pacific nuclear submarine force responds with a single order, "Sink 'em!"

No Chinese vessel on or below the surface survives for very long. The seas around Taiwan are filled with torpedoes, sea mines, the dying and the dead. The Chinese Army invasion of Taiwan drowns within sight of the mainland as the first wave is sunk in a fruitless attempt to cross the open waters. The Chinese Navy disappears without firing a shot.

Without its warships and landing craft, the Chinese Army cannot swim. Before the hapless generals in Beijing can react to the disaster at sea, a second attack begins deep inland, behind their lines.

Suddenly, and without warning, Tomahawk missiles rise from the sea surface, flying over the mainland, destroying air bases, missile sites and Chinese command posts.

Operating closely with B-2 bombers, the silent service attacks the Chinese mainland in repeated blows aimed at the Chinese military command. Several Chinese warlords die in the precision strikes. Chinese air power tries to respond but the futile effort has no effect on an unseen foe able to fire at will into almost any Chinese city.

U.S. strike aircraft flying from untouched bases move forward to clear the skies as jubilant Taiwanese citizens greet the first American paratroopers and Patriot missile batteries. American carriers arrive safely to reinforce Taiwan, unhindered by the crippled Chinese Army Air Force. Finally, Aegis cruisers escorting the carriers do battle with the remaining Chinese missile forces and defeat them in a first-ever duel outside the Earth's atmosphere.

The swift force of U.S. Navy Los Angeles attack boats, led by the first Sea Wolf class submarine, sweep the seas clean between China and Taiwan. The red invasion force disappears beneath the straits and into history next to the Spanish Armada.

The game ends with U.S. Navy attack subs returning home with broomsticks tied to their masts. Taiwan buries its dead and begins to rebuild.

Yet, can we stop the coming war before it happens?

The world now stands at the brink. The so-called "strategic partner" of America is preparing to declare war on tiny Taiwan. The first warnings are already sounding, as Chinese Army troops move forward and diplomats seek secret deals.

China has not started the war nor is China united behind the war. The Chinese mainland consists of over a billion people kept in bondage by the iron grip of the People's Liberation Army and the Communist Party.

The oppressive and brutal regime is also unstable. At any moment, it could collapse and implode like the former Soviet Union, or it may turn outward in a nationalistic fever that leads to global combat.

There is a way to stop the warlords and free the mainland. The same country is seeking entry into the civilized world of business, membership in the World Trade Organization, and permanent "most favored" trading status here in America. China depends on the current trade to build her army for the coming conflict.

The one element that China needs to start and finish a war is money. Even the threat of a trade halt with China will take away the resources needed to invade Taiwan. Hit them hard where they cannot respond and where it hurts the most, in their wallet. Urge Congress to turn down Chinese membership in the WTO and turn down most favored trading status.

We can stop the warlords by cutting trade relations. U.S. citizens can even bypass a weak Congress and a corrupt president simply by boycotting red Chinese goods. It's as simple as that. Only a few percentage points can tip the balance in favor of peace.



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Charles R. Smith is a noted investigative journalist. For over 20 years, Smith has covered areas of national security and information warfare. He frequently appears on national television for the Fox network and is a popular guest on radio shows all over America.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Or because the history of engineering in China goes back to legendary times, like to the era of Yu the Great?

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:NQXB9w_mGrHgpM:http://rdanderson.com/stargate/lexicon/pantheon/images/yu.jpg&t=1

[Austin]

F*ck that noise!

Don't think for a moment that the Chinese are bound by some antiquated philosophical hogwash about Ying and Yang and the teachings of Confucius or Buddha.
Tell this to any American veteran of the Korean conflict who fought with the China man, face to face!

If the Chinese where to "own Asia" as you predict, then their next stop is the US states of Hawaii and Alaska, followed by Western Canada, and the West Coast of the United States.


I don't think China's ambitions are delusional, an attack on the continental U.S. would be utterly pointless as by the end of my lifetime the U.S. will already be out of Asia. China understands what can be achieved without destroying themselves in the process. China wants to rule all of East Asia and much of South Asia as the leader of the East in correspondence with the mandate of Heaven and all that stuff. This will be easily doable for them in the next 100 years if things continue. Yet China isn't a fool or crazy behind closed doors, they wouldn't care for Alaska or any of the U.S.. Hawaii is too far and is irrelevant anyways in the grand scheme of things. China wants to be the second power, not try to take over half the world with wasteful far-off wars that have nothing to do with Asia.

[Austin]

The notion that the Chinese are uncreative and unable to innovate is discredited by their history. This courtesy of Prof. Rushton:

http://tia-mysoa.blogspot.com/2010/07/race-mixing-iq-and-future.html


I'm talking about modern Chinese. They are on average not entrepreneurial in comparison to people of the West. More probably because they are living off another cultures technology like flies to a soda can. Once they create their own technology then I think this will be less of an issue. I wonder what it must be like for other cultures such as China being made to use near-entirely another cultures tech.

[Bloodeagle]

I don't think China's ambitions are delusional, an attack on the continental U.S. would be utterly pointless as by the end of my lifetime the U.S. will already be out of Asia. China understands what can be achieved without destroying themselves in the process. China wants to rule all of East Asia and much of South Asia as the leader of the East in correspondence with the mandate of Heaven and all that stuff. This will be easily doable for them in the next 100 years if things continue. Yet China isn't a fool or crazy behind closed doors, they wouldn't care for Alaska or any of the U.S.. Hawaii is too far and is irrelevant anyways in the grand scheme of things. China wants to be the second power, not try to take over half the world with wasteful far-off wars that have nothing to do with Asia.

You should spend some time looking into the current and historical strategic importance to the United States these two states hold.
They would be some of the first targets to be dealt with in the event of an Asian invasion.

[Joe McCarthy]

One of my favorite rabid statements from the PLA leadership. This one is gleaned from The Coming Conflict With China by Bernstein and Munro:


[As for the United States] for a relatively long time it will be absolutely necessary that we quietly nurse our sense of vengeance... We must conceal our abilities and bide our time. -- Lieutenant General Mi Zhenyu, Vice Commandant, Academy of Military Sciences, Beijing.

[Albion]

Damn that's bad! However Asia has the advantage of high population size, with that many people at least some of them are going to be smart and with a high population it pushes up the overall amounts.
Europe and the white nations must continue their strides in technology and it is crucial that we don't share it with any other nations.

[Joe McCarthy]

Damn that's bad! However Asia has the advantage of high population size, with that many people at least some of them are going to be smart and with a high population it pushes up the overall amounts.
Europe and the white nations must continue their strides in technology and it is crucial that we don't share it with any other nations.

The US and Europe need to begin emphasizing math and science and stop pumping out graduates with warm and fuzzy degrees specializing in things like ecofeminism and women's studies. The dumbing down of Western education, which has been a deliberate effort by the left, is bearing its unwholesome fruit.

[Cato]

The US and Europe need to begin emphasizing math and science and stop pumping out graduates with warm and fuzzy degrees specializing in things like ecofeminism and women's studies. The dumbing down of Western education, which has been a deliberate effort by the left, is bearing its unwholesome fruit.

Why do you think I don't talk to most people, especially the young ones, about topics I find interesting? I've got a good grounding in a classical education, history, literature, philosophy, religion and so forth, and with a smattering of other areas that I've found interesting over the years, astronomy, a bit of biology, etc. Math was never my strong suit, so I'm a dunce there, but imagine trying to talk to someone these days, say your average whigger or whitetrash, about Plato or Marcus Aurelius or even something that they should know *something* about like the Bible. It's like I'm talking to a post; many people these days are very, very stupid.

[Psychonaut]

The US and Europe need to begin emphasizing math and science and stop pumping out graduates with warm and fuzzy degrees specializing in things like ecofeminism and women's studies. The dumbing down of Western education, which has been a deliberate effort by the left, is bearing its unwholesome fruit.

Question: do you really think that an overabundance of Humanities grads are what is dragging us down academically? The Department of Education breaks down the division of majors among college grads like this (http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d09/figures/fig_15.asp):

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d09/images/fig15.gif

Yes the "Social Sciences and History" category is larger than most and we could probably benefit from some of those being redirected towards the sciences, but, I'm inclined to think that the hugely disproportionate number of business majors is more to blame than anything else. Business majors don't do anything. They don't invent. They don't build. They don't research. All they do is move shit around. The predominance of these kinds of middle men seems a much larger threat to the now dwindling engineering and computer science fields than do the liberal arts types. The latter usually stays within the education system, while the former goes out and makes a shit ton of money outsourcing technical jobs to Asia.

[Joe McCarthy]

Question: do you really think that an overabundance of Humanities grads are what is dragging us down academically? The Department of Education breaks down the division of majors among college grads like this (http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d09/figures/fig_15.asp):

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d09/images/fig15.gif

Yes the "Social Sciences and History" category is larger than most and we could probably benefit from some of those being redirected towards the sciences, but, I'm inclined to think that the hugely disproportionate number of business majors is more to blame than anything else. Business majors don't do anything. They don't invent. They don't build. They don't research. All they do is move shit around. The predominance of these kinds of middle men seems a much larger threat to the now dwindling engineering and computer science fields than do the liberal arts types. The latter usually stays within the education system, while the former goes out and makes a shit ton of money outsourcing technical jobs to Asia.

My point really was that there is too much frivolity in our education system. I keyed in on some of the more obviously politically driven subjects so as to demonstrate the absurdity of it all.

But all in all, one must admit that business administration is of more use than, say, queer theory.

[Joe McCarthy]

http://articles.cnn.com/2003-03-24/world/willy.column_1_china-readies-president-hu-jintao-oil-prices?_s=PM:asiapcf