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View Full Version : Can someone tell me what are Roma Gypsies considered in the Brasilian Race Census



Mortimer
09-02-2017, 04:04 AM
I read since 1970 or 1990 they are recognised as "ethnic minority". What does that exactly mean in the context of "white, pardo, black, yellow and indigenous". Does that depend on self-identification or on the Roma individual or is there a general view?

Bruchus
09-02-2017, 04:08 AM
Yes. There is a general view too, but it's not related to phenotype. If you act, wear and live as a Gypsy people will see you as so. Many probably identify as white and pardo.

Mortimer
09-02-2017, 04:10 AM
Yes. There is a general view too, but it's not related to phenotype. If you act, wear and live as a Gypsy people will see you as so. Many probably identify as white and pardo.

What if you are Gypsy but dont act, wear or live "as a Gypsy". It seems Gypsies are seen as social group or lifestyle rather than ethnic group, this is a partly common view but very wrong.

Mortimer
09-02-2017, 04:13 AM
Also is the Brasilian race census, self-identification or you get classified?

Bruchus
09-02-2017, 04:14 AM
What if you are Gypsy but dont act, wear or live "as a Gypsy". It seems Gypsies are seen as social group or lifestyle rather than ethnic group, this is a partly common view but very wrong.

So no one will assume you're Gypsy, especially in Brazil, where ethnicity isn't a well established issue. And yes, that's how things work here.

Mortimer
09-02-2017, 04:15 AM
So no one will assume you're Gypsy, especially in Brazil, where ethnicity isn't a well established issue. And yes, that's how things work here.

What if a black guy with no gypsy ancestry, wears acts and dress like a gypsy (if he has gypsy ancestry its another thing but lets say he just likes gypsy culture) or a swede with no gypsy ancestry? Would people assume he is a gypsy. Heather told me in Brasil its quiete popular to dress like a Gypsy on a party, there is even a religion where gypsies play a role, a african religion called ambantu.

Bruchus
09-02-2017, 04:21 AM
What if a black guy with no gypsy ancestry, wears acts and dress like a gypsy (if he has gypsy ancestry its another thing but lets say he just likes gypsy culture) or a swede with no gypsy ancestry? Would people assume he is a gypsy. Heather told me in Brasil its quiete popular to dress like a Gypsy on a party, there is even a religion where gypsies play a role, a african religion called ambantu.

Kind of true. But blacks aren't confounded with Gypsies though and so aren't Swedes. I said there's no phenotype involved but it doesn't apply to these extremes. Everybody knows a black is a black and a Swede (Northern looking person) is a Swede here.

The census here is based on self-identification.

Mortimer
09-02-2017, 04:23 AM
Kind of true. But blacks aren't confounded with Gypsies though and so aren't Swedes. I said there's no phenotype involved but it doesn't apply to these extremes. Everybody knows a black is a black and a Swede (Northern looking person) is a Swede here.

The census here is based on self-identification.

ok but for me ancestry is more important then phenotype even. i know afro-gypsies too. africans with gypsy ancestry or half gypsies half africans, who play a important role in gypsy communities but looks african, while there can be similiartiies in appearance with people who aboslutely have no gypsy ancestry.

Bruchus
09-02-2017, 04:25 AM
ok but for me ancestry is more important then phenotype even. i know afro-gypsies too. africans with gypsy ancestry or half gypsies half africans, who play a important role in gypsy communities but looks african, while there can be similiartiies in appearance with people who aboslutely have no gypsy ancestry.

This doesn't actually matter in RL here though, plus Gypsies are more like folkloric characters than actually a minority.

Mortimer
09-02-2017, 04:26 AM
This doesn't actually matter in RL here though, plus Gypsies are more like folkloric characters than actually a minority.

but there are so many gypsies in brasil. and they are recognised as ethnic minority, maybe not in the mind of the people yet, but by the government. two brasilian presidents were of gypsy ancestry, one was of portuguese kale ancestry and the other was half czech roma, half white german/portuguese etc.

Mortimer
09-02-2017, 04:29 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people_in_Brazil

Kriptc06
09-08-2017, 12:02 AM
Very likely, pardo, or even white, depending on the pheno. 'white' is a borad term in latin america. and pardo means brown translated.

you likely would be white here, well, for everyone you would be serb or austrian (as you said you are a citizen), not many people would disbelief that.

Black Panther
11-05-2017, 04:33 PM
I believe most gypsies see themselves as White in Brazil, while some of the darker-skinned ones might see themselves as Pardos. Roma are not racialized in Brazil. Most people can only recognize who is a gypsy there by the way they dress or if they hold on to their ancestral culture/customs.

Buffalo Bull
11-17-2017, 09:01 PM
Shitland is knowing to be the first country to elect a roma ancestry president: Juscelino Kubitschek (czech-roma ancestry).
His government was marked by systemic corruption in the construction of the Shitland's capital (Brasília) and by dumb economic decisions
By the way, there is a theory that he was assassinated by the military regime in the 1970's.

There is no official information about the roma population in Brazil.
Censuses literally just ask about the person's skin color and the population are divided in "whites", "blacks", "yellows", "indians" and "mixed". The ethnic background are totally ignored.
So a gypsy will probably respond white, black and mixed, according to the color of her skin and phenotype.
A guy like Eugene Hütz will be seen as a white in Shitland, no matter his ethnic background or what he tell.

It's important to tell that immigration related data considered only the individual's place of origin (passport) for counting purposes. For example, a portuguese gypsy in the XIX would be counted as a portuguese immigrant, not a gypsy. The same would occur with italians from the Austro-Hungarian empire or ukrainians from the Russian empire.

If you want some real information, you will only find it in studies conducted by private groups.

Sorry about the broken english, Buffalo Bull is working to mastered the english language.

Token
11-17-2017, 09:05 PM
Most probably identify as Pardo.

Token
11-17-2017, 09:10 PM
Shitland is knowing to be the first country to elect a roma ancestry president: Juscelino Kubitschek (czech-roma ancestry).
His government was marked by systemic corruption in the construction of the Shitland's capital (Brasília) and by dumb economic decisions
By the way, there is a theory that he was assassinated by the military regime in the 1970's.

There is no official information about the roma population in Brazil.
Censuses literally just ask about the person's skin color and the population are divided in "whites", "blacks", "yellows", "indians" and "mixed". The ethnic background are totally ignored.
So a gypsy will probably respond white, black and mixed, according to the color of her skin and phenotype.
A guy like Eugene Hütz will be seen as a white in Shitland, no matter his ethnic background or what he tell.

It's important to tell that immigration related data considered only the individual's place of origin (passport) for counting purposes. For example, a portuguese gypsy in the XIX would be counted as a portuguese immigrant, not a gypsy. The same would occur with italians from the Austro-Hungarian empire or ukrainians from the Russian empire.

If you want some real information, you will only find it in studies conducted by private groups.

Sorry about the broken english, Buffalo Bull is working to mastered the english language.

It is thanks to people like you, calling your own country as 'Shitland', that Brazil is in decadence but, if you don't know, Southeastern and Southern Brazil have better human development index than most Eastern Europe even with these shitty governments and with poor people from the north coming here to parasite us.

Buffalo Bull
11-17-2017, 09:36 PM
It is thanks to people like you, calling your own country as 'Shitland', that Brazil is in decadence but, if you don't know, Southeastern and Southern Brazil have better human development index than most Eastern Europe even with these shitty governments and with poor people from the north coming here to parasite us.

So you became butt-hurt just because Buffalo Bull tells the truth?

What is the logic in comparing FEDERATIVE UNITS with other COUNTRIES? Seriously, you are comparing regions of a continental country with others countries. It is not even fair.
Why not compare Florianópolis with Prague?
Why not compare Porto Alegre with Budapest?
Why not compare Curitiba with Riga?
Why not compare Campo Grande with Warsaw?
Why not compare Belo Horizonte with Bucharest?

Because you know the truth.

You want to play the nationalist here, but only to promote the Southeastern and Southern regions of Brazil. If you don't know, this "poor people from the north coming" (as you said), you and Buffalo Bull are from Shitland.

We live in the information age. As Apricity knows Shitland have european culture and people with european background, they know this country is not serious and sucks.

Mikula
11-17-2017, 10:14 PM
Shitland is knowing to be the first country to elect a roma ancestry president: Juscelino Kubitschek (czech-roma ancestry).
His government was marked by systemic corruption in the construction of the Shitland's capital (Brasília) and by dumb economic decisions
By the way, there is a theory that he was assassinated by the military regime in the 1970's.

There is no official information about the roma population in Brazil.
Censuses literally just ask about the person's skin color and the population are divided in "whites", "blacks", "yellows", "indians" and "mixed". The ethnic background are totally ignored.
So a gypsy will probably respond white, black and mixed, according to the color of her skin and phenotype.
A guy like Eugene Hütz will be seen as a white in Shitland, no matter his ethnic background or what he tell.

It's important to tell that immigration related data considered only the individual's place of origin (passport) for counting purposes. For example, a portuguese gypsy in the XIX would be counted as a portuguese immigrant, not a gypsy. The same would occur with italians from the Austro-Hungarian empire or ukrainians from the Russian empire.

If you want some real information, you will only find it in studies conducted by private groups.

Sorry about the broken english, Buffalo Bull is working to mastered the english language.

IMHO Kubitschek was of non-Roma Czech ancestry. His grandpa came from Bohemia, Czechia. It was common mistake in the past, that Gypsies were called Bohemians.
And Bohemia is the major, western part of Czechia.
The mistake started in 15th century when first Gypsies arrived to France. Locals asked tem "Where are you from?" and they answered "From Bohemia", because they went to France via Bohemia, actually.

Buffalo Bull
11-17-2017, 10:46 PM
IMHO Kubitschek was of non-Roma Czech ancestry. His grandpa came from Bohemia, Czechia. It was common mistake in the past, that Gypsies were called Bohemians.
And Bohemia is the major, western part of Czechia.
The mistake started in 15th century when first Gypsies arrived to France. Locals asked tem "Where are you from?" and they answered "From Bohemia", because they went to France via Bohemia, actually.

Hey, thanks for the answer.
Buffalo Bull doesn't know that czechs are aware of the existence of Juscelino. Seriously.

Actually, people here claim he was of czech and roma ancestry from her mother side. He was aware of the roma ancestry, but nobody knows if this ancestry really came from her bohemian ancestor, or by some mixed relationship in Brazil from some ancestor of his mother or by her father who abandoned him.

Viktor Dolista, your diplomat here in Shitland, explain the difference between the word bohemian and roma, and the fact that his great grandfather came from Bohemian, but this discussion originates from the use of this word as an adjective to his private life (bohemian life style). They are linking this life style with his origins in Bohemia, than people started this discussion.

His biographers say he was aware of his gypsy background, but only talked about it with other well know gypsies.

Mortimer
11-17-2017, 10:58 PM
IMHO Kubitschek was of non-Roma Czech ancestry. His grandpa came from Bohemia, Czechia. It was common mistake in the past, that Gypsies were called Bohemians.
And Bohemia is the major, western part of Czechia.
The mistake started in 15th century when first Gypsies arrived to France. Locals asked tem "Where are you from?" and they answered "From Bohemia", because they went to France via Bohemia, actually.

no he was roma. The first Brazilian president (1956 – 1961) of direct non-Portuguese Romani origin was Juscelino Kubitschek, 50% Czech Romani by his mother's bloodline. His term was marked by economic prosperity and political stability,[2] being most known by the construction of Brazil's new capital, Brasília. Nevertheless, Brazil already had a president of Portuguese Kale ancestry before Juscelino's term, Washington Luís.

JMack
11-17-2017, 11:16 PM
Blah, Blah, Blah


You should be spanked to learn about how to have some self respect. Loser.

It is thanks to beta cucks like you that Brazil is in bad conditions. Go suck some Anglo cock, pathetic asshole.

Buffalo Bull
11-18-2017, 12:01 AM
ad hominem and some penile references

You need to start acting like a man.

Primarily you are so proud of here that you don't even identify yourself as a brazilian, or you live in Faroes Island?
If you want to play the nationalist here, at the last develop a critical awareness of this land, and stop bitching when you see someone criticize here. This is the difference between us and the other nationalists here, when they see something stupid of their countries, they try to solve because they really care about their land and have balls to take on their responsibilities.

BTW this country is mess because of people like you, who believes that Brazil is just the southern and southeastern regions, and are desperately trying to be accepted by the others because cares more about the other's opinion than himself. When some shit are throw on the fan, curiously they instantly go blind.
Yeah, Brazil will become a first world country because someone who cursed this country on Internet was "humiliated".
Typical behavior, including the classical penile references and a grievance against a random group (anglo).

Mortimer
11-18-2017, 12:29 AM
There is no official information about the roma population in Brazil.
Censuses literally just ask about the person's skin color and the population are divided in "whites", "blacks", "yellows", "indians" and "mixed". The ethnic background are totally ignored.
So a gypsy will probably respond white, black and mixed, according to the color of her skin and phenotype.
A guy like Eugene Hütz will be seen as a white in Shitland, no matter his ethnic background or what he tell.



What would be my family considered in Brasil? They are typically Gypsies from Southeastern Europe. I suspect if its based only on skin colour and not ethnic background they would respond as "Pardo" (which means Brown). [B][U]Please dont quote

Pigling
11-18-2017, 12:41 AM
There's no way Gypsy could be put in same basket with Russian, Scottish or Polish person for example, racially speaking.

You guys doesn't look European, nor your phenotype/genotype evolved in Europe, is that so hard to understand?

Same as Whites from South African aren't African and they will never be Africans.

Be happy with your own culture.

I'm happy and proud because I'm Slavic Aryan.

Buffalo Bull
11-18-2017, 01:08 AM
Like Buffalo Bull had said the State just asks how the person identifies himself.
Buffalo Bull cannot gave you some "official" answer, because anybody is free to indicate in what group he feels more connection. For example, Ronaldo has a famous quote when he played in Real Madrid, telling he feels white.

Most of people are mixed, so they choose according to the colour of her skin literally.

Buffalo Bull will show her impressions.
1º photo - Woman: mixed or even black / Children: black.
2º photo - Man: mixed.
3º photo - Woman: mixed / You: mixed (if you go to the Northern or Northeastern regions, they will probably see you as white, mixed or even asian - because of your eyes).
4º photo - Man: mixed / Woman: white.
5º photo - both mixed.
6º photo - mixed and black as Buffalo Bull had said.
7º photo - in the Northern and Northeastern regions they will probably see as white. In other regions they will be see as mixed.
8º photo - the woman in right looks white.
9º photo - mixed. In the Northern and Northeastern regions the guy in the left and the guy in the right can pass as white, the guy in the center will be see as mixed or even white.
10º photo - mixed.
11º photo - both mixed. In the Northern and Northeastern regions they can pass as white.

Nice big and beautiful family! :thumb001:

Mortimer
11-18-2017, 01:21 AM
Like Buffalo Bull had said the State just asks how the person identifies himself.
Buffalo Bull cannot gave you some "official" answer, because anybody is free to indicate in what group he feels more connection. For example, Ronaldo has a famous quote when he played in Real Madrid, telling he feels white.

Most of people are mixed, so they choose according to the colour of her skin literally.

Buffalo Bull will show her impressions.
1º photo - Woman: mixed or even black / Children: black.
2º photo - Man: mixed.
3º photo - Woman: mixed / You: mixed (if you go to the Northern or Northeastern regions, they will probably see you as white, mixed or even asian - because of your eyes).
4º photo - Man: mixed / Woman: white.
5º photo - both mixed.
6º photo - mixed and black as Buffalo Bull had said.
7º photo - in the Northern and Northeastern regions they will probably see as white. In other regions they will be see as mixed.
8º photo - the woman in right looks white.
9º photo - mixed. In the Northern and Northeastern regions the guy in the left and the guy in the right can pass as white, the guy in the center will be see as mixed or even white.
10º photo - mixed.
11º photo - both mixed. In the Northern and Northeastern regions they can pass as white.

Nice big and beautiful family! :thumb001:

I seriously doubt they would be seen as "black" or that any Gypsy would be seen as black except ones who are mixed with blacks. but I was told before that the little boy looks black. He was 1 year or 2 years at that time and maybe because of his hair together with his brown skin. But I seriously doubt he would be seen as black though not even as Mullato but black. When even Heathers has written in his Birthcertificate he is a Pardo. Did you saw his pic and his family?

More recent picture of the little boy. Now 4 years old and with different hair cut with his mum. Dont quote thanks.

Buffalo Bull
11-18-2017, 01:57 AM
It's just personal impressions. Not a definitive answer.
If your family members respond some demographic censuses, they are free to answer in what group they belong. Officers only interfere when they detect some trolling attempts. Our censuses do not ask "where your ancestor come?" or "what is your phenotype?". State thinks that these informations are useless today.
In 2009, when the censuses didn't present answers and the person literally wrote their group, there are cases of individuals who responded "blue", "pink" and "orange".
As you can see, there are variations on the answers according to the region in which they are.

Some regions are more white.
Some are more mixed.
Some are black.

Like Buffalo Bull said, the ordinary individual will respond according to her skin, even if he are white, mixed, black, asian or indigenous. Bizarre cases are quite common.

Buffalo Bull respond that 2009 censuses. The officer come here, pick Buffalo Bull's informations and basically asked how Buffalo Bull feels. Buffalo Bull respond and signed that document. Just that. The informations you see on Buffalo Bull's profile are not asked.

For example, according to the "official" data, there are cities with "95% of whites" and cities with "95% of mixed". If your family members are in these cities, you can expect that the social perception will change according to the locals. So in some regions they can be white, mixed, black, asian or indigenous.

Just look at this image
69903
Pardo doesn't mean "brown", it is a generic word to someone with a mixed background.

Mortimer
11-18-2017, 02:09 AM
It's just personal impressions. Not a definitive answer.
If your family members respond some demographic censuses, they are free to answer in what group they belong. Officers only interfere when they detect some trolling attempts. Our censuses do not ask "where your ancestor come?" or "what is your phenotype?". State thinks that these informations are useless today.
In 2009, when the censuses didn't present answers and the person literally wrote their group, there are cases of individuals who responded "blue", "pink" and "orange".
As you can see, there are variations on the answers according to the region in which they are.

Some regions are more white.
Some are more mixed.
Some are black.

Like Buffalo Bull said, the ordinary individual will respond according to her skin, even if he are white, mixed, black, asian or indigenous. Bizarre cases are quite common.

Buffalo Bull respond that 2009 censuses. The officer come here, pick Buffalo Bull's informations and basically asked how Buffalo Bull feels. Buffalo Bull respond and signed that document. Just that. The informations you see on Buffalo Bull's profile are not asked.

For example, according to the "official" data, there are cities with "95% of whites" and cities with "95% of mixed". If your family members are in these cities, you can expect that the social perception will change according to the locals. So in some regions they can be white, mixed, black, asian or indigenous.

Just look at this image
69903
Pardo doesn't mean "brown", it is a generic word to someone with a mixed background.

I see but I doubt they would be seen as asian, indigenous, or black. Maybe mixed. But I think they dont fit this census at all. Closest would be mixed (as triracials or mullatos) but actually they dont fit anything. They are not mixed (black/white/indigenous etc.) or white or black or asian or indigenous etc. They are nothing of that. Thanks for your impression though bro. Its interesting to read.

Buffalo Bull
11-18-2017, 02:21 AM
I see but I doubt they would be seen as asian, indigenous, or black. Maybe mixed. But I think they dont fit this census at all. Closest would be mixed (as triracials or mullatos) but actually they dont fit anything. They are not mixed (black/white/indigenous etc.) or white or black or asian or indigenous etc. They are nothing of that. Thanks for your impression though bro. Its interesting to read.

You are welcome! :thumb001:

But let's try another example, and this time using your country?
Look at these photos.
69904

69905

He is a brazilian-serbian football player. He even played for Serbia U-19 team.
He's serbian grandfather came here because of the World War 2.
He's mother is probably of full portuguese heritage.
Others information are unknown.
At last he is 75% portuguese and 25% serbian.

Here, if he identified himself as white or even mixed (who knows?) no one will saying anything. Not a big deal. Just a common fact.

But if he goes to Serbia and claim he is a serbian? Serbians will accept? He will be see as a common serbian?

When he played for Serbia some years ago he complained that serbians not accepted he as a common citizen.

Heather Duval
11-18-2017, 02:24 AM
Mortimer, Youre trying hard as fuck to be seen as white in somewhere.

Mortimer
11-18-2017, 02:24 AM
You are welcome! :thumb001:

But let's try another example, and this time using your country?
Look at these photos.
69904

69905

He is a brazilian-serbian football player. He even played for Serbia U-19 team.
He's serbian grandfather came here because of the World War 2.
He's mother is probably of full portuguese heritage.
Others information are unknown.
At last he is 75% portuguese and 25% serbian.

Here, if he identified himself as white or even mixed (who knows?) no one will saying anything. Not a big deal. Just a common fact.

But if he goes to Serbia and claim he is a serbian? Serbians will accept? He will be see as a common serbian?

When he played for Serbia some years ago he complained that serbians not accepted he as a common citizen.

If he doesnt speak serbian and has only a serbian grandparent he probably would be seen as foreign, but if he were born in serbia and speaks fluent serbian he would probably be seen as serb. From look he fits serb look and no one would question him, but he probably was not accepted because he doesnt speak serbian and was not born in serbia.

Anyways, I like Brasil and think its a cool country and I think I get that you want to say in Brasil everyone can decide by feeling what he wants to be, right? Pretty cool system.

Mortimer
11-18-2017, 02:26 AM
Mortimer, Youre trying hard as fuck to be seen as white in somewhere.

I didnt said I want to be seen as white, I didnt even mentioned white. I said that roma are closest to generic pardos (triracials like people from northeast region etc.), I didnt said they are closest to whites. Look again what I wrote.

Buffalo Bull
11-18-2017, 02:30 AM
If he doesnt speak serbian and has only a serbian grandparent he probably would be seen as foreign, but if he were born in serbia and speaks fluent serbian he would probably be seen as serb. From look he fits serb look and no one would question him, but he probably was not accepted because he doesnt speak serbian and was not born in serbia.

Anyways, I like Brasil and think its a cool country and I think I get that you want to say in Brasil everyone can decide by feeling what he wants to be, right? Pretty cool system.

Thanks for your answer. :thumb001:

Bolsonaro2018
11-18-2017, 02:31 AM
I think many gypsies could pass as "white" in Brazil, but your examples are not that good, these persons dont look like it, all of them could pass as pardos with no problem. Average pardo brazilian is around 70% european anyway, I think gypsies score in this extention.

And why is that guy talking about himself in third person?

Mortimer
11-18-2017, 02:32 AM
I think many gypsies could pass as "white" in Brazil, but your examples are not that good, these persons dont look like it, all of them could pass as pardos with no problem. Average pardo brazilian is around 70% european anyway, I think gypsies score in this extention.

And why is that guy talking about himself in third person?

i didnt want to bring examples of white gypsies though, i was just curious about my family. those are my family. i was just curious about my family.

Bolsonaro2018
11-18-2017, 02:34 AM
i didnt want to bring examples of white gypsies though, i was just curious about my family. those are my family. i was just curious about my family.

I get it now, I think you look the whitest among them, you could pass as white in some regions here, mainly North/Northeast imo.

Buffalo Bull
11-18-2017, 02:34 AM
I think many gypsies could pass as "white" in Brazil, but your examples are not that good, these persons dont look like it, all of them could pass as pardos with no problem. Average pardo brazilian is around 70% european anyway, I think gypsies score in this extention.

And why is that guy talking about himself in third person?

Because Buffalo Bull talks in the third person. :eek:

Buffalo Bull is impressed that nobody noticed that he is just a character based on self-hating humour.

Mortimer
11-18-2017, 02:35 AM
I get it now, I think you are the whitest among them, you could pass as white in some regions here, mainly North/Northeast imo.

because my paternal family looks white i think. or southeuropean/southeastern european. they are my maternal family.

Bolsonaro2018
11-18-2017, 02:37 AM
Because Buffalo Bull talks in the third person. :eek:

Buffalo Bull is impressed that nobody noticed that he is just a character based on self-hating humour.

You'll feel at home in this forum


because my paternal family looks white i think. or southeuropean/southeastern european. they are my maternal family.

So you are half roma, makes sense.

Mortimer
11-18-2017, 02:39 AM
You'll feel at home in this forum



So you are half roma, makes sense.

2/3 my dad was a quarter but still looked white.

Bolsonaro2018
11-18-2017, 02:43 AM
2/3 my dad was a quarter but still looked white.

Do you have his pic too?

Mortimer
11-18-2017, 02:44 AM
[QUOTE=Bolsonaro2018;4782373]Do you have his

Bolsonaro2018
11-18-2017, 02:48 AM
.

Yes, he looks white, could pass as one with no problem here. He kinda resembles an american actor of some movies that I've watched, but I dont remember its name.

Heather Duval
11-18-2017, 03:01 AM
Shitland is knowing to be the first country to elect a roma ancestry president: Juscelino Kubitschek (czech-roma ancestry).
His government was marked by systemic corruption in the construction of the Shitland's capital (Brasília) and by dumb economic decisions
By the way, there is a theory that he was assassinated by the military regime in the 1970's.

There is no official information about the roma population in Brazil.
Censuses literally just ask about the person's skin color and the population are divided in "whites", "blacks", "yellows", "indians" and "mixed". The ethnic background are totally ignored.
So a gypsy will probably respond white, black and mixed, according to the color of her skin and phenotype.
A guy like Eugene Hütz will be seen as a white in Shitland, no matter his ethnic background or what he tell.

It's important to tell that immigration related data considered only the individual's place of origin (passport) for counting purposes. For example, a portuguese gypsy in the XIX would be counted as a portuguese immigrant, not a gypsy. The same would occur with italians from the Austro-Hungarian empire or ukrainians from the Russian empire.

If you want some real information, you will only find it in studies conducted by private groups.

Sorry about the broken english, Buffalo Bull is working to mastered the english language.

Youre right. Most people thinks in Brazil pardo is a brown skin colour, so many light skinned mixed people are seen and considers themselves white here. The census is a joke. Selena Gomez and a lot of light mestizos like her would be white here because they have white skin.

In 1976, the Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics ran a household survey that marked a crucial departure from other census exercises. The Pesquisa Nacional por Amostra de Domicílios (PNAD) did not ask Brazilians to choose a race category among pre-determined choices; instead, researchers went out and asked people to describe the colour they thought they were.
This is what was returned:
Acastanhada Somewhat chestnut-colou
Agalegada Somewhat like a Galician
Alva Snowy white
Alva escura Dark snowy white
Alvarenta (not in dictionary; poss. d
Alvarinta Snowy white
Alva rosada Pinkish white
Alvinha Snowy white
Amarela Yellow
Amarelada Yellowish
Amarela-queimada Burnt yellow
Amarelosa Yellowy
Amorenada Somewhat dark-skinned
Avermelhada Reddish
Azul Blue
Azul-marinho Sea blue
Baiano From Bahia
Bem branca Very white
Bem clara Very pale
Bem morena Very dark-skinned
Branca White
Branca-avermelhada White going on for red
Branca-melada Honey-coloured white
Branca-morena White but dark-skinned
Branca-pálida Pale white
Branca-queimada Burnt white
Branca-sardenta Freckled white
Branca-suja Off-white
Branquiça Whitish
Branquinha Very white
Bronze Bronze-coloured
Bronzeada Sun-tanned
Bugrezinha-escura Dark-skinned India
Burro-quando-foge Disappearing donkey (i.e. humorous
Cabocla Copper-coloured ( refers t
Cabo-verde From Cabo Verde (Cape V
Café Coffee-coloured
Café-com-leite Café au lait
Canela Cinnamon
Canelada Somewhat like cinnamon
Cardão Colour of the cardoon, or
Castanha Chestnut
Castanha-clara Light chestnut
Castanha-escura Dark chestnut
Chocolate Chocolate-coloured
Clara Light-coloured, pale
Clarinha Light-coloured, pale
Cobre Copper-coloured
Corada With a high colour
Cor-de-café Coffee-coloured
Cor-de-canela Cinnamon-coloured
Cor-de-cuia Gourd-coloured
Cor-de-leite Milk-coloured (i.e. milk-w
Cor-de-ouro Gold-coloured (i.e. golden
Cor-de-rosa Pink
Cor-firme Steady-coloured
Crioula Creole
Encerada Polished
Enxofrada Pallid
Esbranquecimento Whitening
Escura Dark
Escurinha Very dark
Fogoió Having fiery-coloured hair
Galega Galician or Portuguese
Galegada Somewhat like a Galician
Jambo Light-skinned (the colour
Laranja Orange
Lilás Lilac
Loira Blonde
Loira-clara Light blonde
Loura Blonde
Lourinha Petite blonde
Malaia Malaysian woman
Marinheira Sailor-woman
Marrom Brown
Meio-amarela Half-yellow
Meio-branca Half-white
Meio-morena Half dark-skinned
Meio-preta Half-black
Melada Honey-coloured
Mestiça Half-caste/mestiza
Miscigenação Miscegenation
Mista Mixed
Morena Dark-skinned, brunette
Morena-bem-chegada Very nearly morena
Morena-bronzeada Sunburnt morena
Morena-canelada Somewhat cinnamon-colo
Morena-castanha Chestnut-coloured morena
Morena-clara Light-skinned morena
Morena-cor-de-canela Cinnamon-coloured more
Morena-jambo Light-skinned morena
Morenada Somewhat morena
Morena-escura Dark morena
Morena-fechada Dark morena
Morenão Dark-complexioned man
Morena-parda Dark morena
Morena-roxa Purplish morena
Morena-ruiva Red-headed morena
Morena-trigueira Swarthy, dusky morena
Moreninha Petite morena
Mulata Mulatto girl
Mulatinha Little mulatto girl
Negra Negress
Negrota Young negress
Pálida Pale
Paraíba From Paraíba
Parda Brown
Parda-clara Light brown
Parda-morena Brown morena
Parda-preta Black-brown
Polaca Polish woman
Pouco-clara Not very light
Pouco-morena Not very dark-complexion
Pretinha Black – either young, or s
Puxa-para-branco Somewhat towards white
Quase-negra Almost negro
Queimada Sunburnt
Queimada-de-praia Beach sunburnt
Queimada-de-sol Sunburnt
Regular Regular, normal
Retinta Deep-dyed, very dark
Rosa Rose-coloured (or the ros
Rosada Rosy
Rosa-queimada Sunburnt-rosy
Roxa Purple
Ruiva Redhead
Russo Russian
Sapecada Singed
Sarará Yellow-haired negro
Saraúba (poss. dialect) Untranslata
Tostada Toasted
Trigo Wheat
Trigueira Brunette
Turva Murky
Verde Green
Vermelha Red

JMack
11-18-2017, 04:28 AM
Selena Gomez and a lot of light mestizos like her would be white here because they have white skin.


Are you on drugs? If Selena Gomez have white skin then I'm albino. lol

These are average ''whites'' in Southeastern Brazil:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4YSd6Etddwk/VL2z0zxQQNI/AAAAAAAAFGs/OgwcI7oUpNA/s1600/gianecchini%2Bde%2Bbigode_001.jpeg

http://www.portalparamulher.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Murilo-Benicio-Dodi.jpg

https://observatoriodosfamosos.bol.uol.com.br/portal/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/debora.jpg

Brazilian whites in the Southeast are dark haired and dark eyed since most of us are Italian/Iberian. But no one with brown skin (like Selena Gomez) would be considered white here.

Mortimer would have more chance of passing as white than Selena Gomez.

Heather Duval
11-18-2017, 05:07 AM
Are you on drugs? If Selena Gomez have white skin then I'm albino. lol

These are average ''whites'' in Southeastern Brazil:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4YSd6Etddwk/VL2z0zxQQNI/AAAAAAAAFGs/OgwcI7oUpNA/s1600/gianecchini%2Bde%2Bbigode_001.jpeg

http://www.portalparamulher.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Murilo-Benicio-Dodi.jpg

https://observatoriodosfamosos.bol.uol.com.br/portal/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/debora.jpg

Brazilian whites in the Southeast are dark haired and dark eyed since most of us are Italian/Iberian. But no one with brown skin (like Selena Gomez) would be considered white here.

Mortimer would have more chance of passing as white than Selena Gomez.

Selena doesnt have brown skin.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ac/26/c3/ac26c340b076b342758cbc3fa6810811--young-actors-selena-gomez-photos.jpg
https://www.fuse.tv/image/59b306c7eb7a54e557000015/816/545/selena-gomez-celebrity-sightings-in-los-angeles-august-24-2017.jpg

Most Brazilians on yahoo questions said shes white
https://br.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130528043216AApynaq

https://br.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100602085005AAa5Ww0

https://br.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100602085005AAa5Ww0

And everything they said was " her skin is white, then shes white"

And I doubt she wouldnt be white in São Paulo. This Brazilian claimed to be from São Paulo and looks mixed too.
https://conteudo.imguol.com.br/c/noticias/ef/2016/05/27/27mai2016---nana-queiroz-e-diretora-executiva-da-revista-azmina-facebookcomrevistaazmina-autora-do-livro-presos-que-menstruam-e-roteirista-da-serie-de-mesmo-nome-em-producao-tambem-e-criadora-do-1464366959476_615x300.jpg

'Shock'
I lived here for the first time in 2009 when I was 23 and I came to learn English and live with an American family that I babysat for a year.
It was in the line of an office that I discovered that the Americans saw me in a very different way. The young lady at the reception asked my information. "Age, marital status, race?" When I said "white," she did not hold back the laughter. "I do not understand, I'm not white?" And she told me, "No, you're a Latina."
That explains a lot. When I take my dog ​​to a park in the neighborhood I live in, some people ask me if I'm their caretaker - it does not make sense to some white Americans that someone like me lives in a good place in town. When I say that I am Brazilian, some men feel the right to touch me, something they do not dare to do with whites. I had never experienced the life of being a woman and a member of a racial minority until I arrived in the United States.

Heather Duval
11-18-2017, 05:09 AM
People do not get noticed in small details. If you have white skin youre taken as white. Everyone knows that there are whites in Brazil, but many considered white are only seen as white because they have white skin.

Magnolia
11-18-2017, 06:38 AM
no he was roma. The first Brazilian president (1956 – 1961) of direct non-Portuguese Romani origin was Juscelino Kubitschek, 50% Czech Romani by his mother's bloodline. His term was marked by economic prosperity and political stability,[2] being most known by the construction of Brazil's new capital, Brasília. Nevertheless, Brazil already had a president of Portuguese Kale ancestry before Juscelino's term, Washington Luís.

No he wasn't:


President Kubitschek was the son of Júlia (Kubitschek) and João César de Oliveira. His maternal great-grandfather was Bohemian (Czech). The remainder of President Kubitschek’s ancestry was Colonial Brazilian (Portuguese).


President Kubitschek’s maternal grandfather was Augusto Elias Kubitschek (the son of Jan Nepomuscky Kubitschek and Teresa Maria de Jesus de Aguilar). Jan was born in South Bohemia, Czech Republic (sometimes cited as Třeboň), and immigrated to Diamantina, Minas Gerais, in 1823. He was nicknamed João Alemão, meaning “German John” in Portuguese.

Jan Nepomuk Kubíček was full Czech (Bohemian).

Mortimer
11-18-2017, 10:20 AM
No he wasn't:





Jan Nepomuk Kubíček was full Czech (Bohemian).

Bullshit everyone knows he was roma. And you cite something about his maternal great grandfather only

Mikula
11-18-2017, 10:45 AM
Bullshit everyone knows he was roma. And you cite something about his maternal great grandfather only

Whose ancestor of him was of Roma ancestry?

Mikula
11-18-2017, 11:03 AM
The main problem is that the exact birth date and birthplace of Jan Nepomuk Kubitschek (Kubíček) was not found yet.
Some documents mentioned town of Třeboň, as his birthplace. But genealogical researching in the church baptismal records of the town was not succesful.
It is possible that Třeboň was actually written in some kind of documents,what Jan Nepomuk had, for his travelling to Brasil.
But Třeboň could be mentioned probably not as birthplace, but as a seat of some authority what issued the documents for him.
Třeboň was for several centuries a "capital" of Třeboň Domain, seat of local landlords, there, nobler families of Rožmberk and later of Prince Schwarzenberg families.
Before 1848, when the feudal system was cancelled, and new governmental system arrived with political division of country by districts (counties), people had to ask for permission to leave home area their landlords. For large part of southern Bohemia it was authorities at Třeboň - seat of Prince Schwarzenberg.
In the case that Jan Nepomuk came from this area, it means that is necessery to check church records for more than 100 towns and villages, what belonged to Třebon Domain.

In Třeboň is today a regional archive, where are stored old church records (and also big number of records of a different kind) for the area of southern Bohemia.
Archive staff tried to find data about Jan Nepomuk Kubíček (Kubitschek),because Brasilian authorities asked for it.
There is an article about it (https://www.ceskearchivy.cz/archivni-oddeleni/soa-trebon/soa-tb-aktuality-a-zpravy/291-jihoceske-koreny-brazilskeho-prezidenta-juscelina-kubitscheka), I will translate it soon

Marinus
11-18-2017, 11:07 AM
Gypsies are known as "Ciganos" in Brazil, but they're not a large enough presence to be considered an ethnicity on their own. So the majority of Roma will be considered white and if they're darker then pardo.

Magnolia
11-18-2017, 11:13 AM
Bullshit everyone knows he was roma. And you cite something about his maternal great grandfather only

He had not Roma ancestry - as Mikula said it is only a myth caused the fact in "Latin" countries - Bohemians = Gypsies (when a Gypsy clan came to a"Latin" country they claimed they came from Bohemia).

Jan Nepomuk Kubíček wasn't Gypsy. Deal with it.

Magnolia
11-18-2017, 11:14 AM
The main problem is that the exact birth date and birthplace of Jan Nepomuk Kubitschek (Kubíček) was not found yet.
DSome documents mentioned town of Třeboň, as his birthplace. But genealogical researching in the church baptismal records of the town was not succesful.
It is possible that Třeboń was actually written in some kind of Documents,what Jan Nepomuk had, for his travelling to Brasil.
But Třeboň could be mentioned probably not as birthplace, but as a seat of some authority what issued the documents for him.
Třeboň was for several centuries a "capital" of Třeboň Domain, seat of local landlords, there, nobler families of Rožmeberk and later of Prince Schwarzenberg families.
Before 1848, when the feudal syte, was cancelled, and new governmantal system arrived with political division of country by districts (counties), people had to ask for permission to leave home area their landlords. For large part of southern Bohemia it was authorities at Třeboň - seat of Prince schwarzenberg.
In the case that Jan Nepomuk came from this area, it means that is necessery to check church records for more than 100 towns and villages, what belonged to Třebon Domain.

In Třeboň is today a regional archive, where are stored old church records (and also big number of records of a different kind) for the area of southern Bohemia.
Archive staff tried to find data about Jan Nepomuk Kubíček (Kubitschek),because Brasilian authorities asked for it.
There is an article about it (https://www.ceskearchivy.cz/archivni-oddeleni/soa-trebon/soa-tb-aktuality-a-zpravy/291-jihoceske-koreny-brazilskeho-prezidenta-juscelina-kubitscheka), I will translate it soon

I guess no need to translate it. What is clear that guy wasn't gypsy.

Mikula
11-18-2017, 11:23 AM
My translation from Czech to English:
Jan (or Josef?) Kubíček left Třeboň Domain somewhen before 1830, when he joined military.
As a soldier of troops under command of majora Schäffer he landed on Brasil in. 1830
Since 1835 is recorded at Diamantina, Minas Gerais - he left army, started his own cabinet-maker workshop, get married and started a family.

Origin of him is not solved, yet.
Researchers from Třeboň archive, came with 2 hypothesis:
1) Jan Nepomuk Kubiček is identical with a boy with the same name, who was born in 1812 at village Kolný (house nr.2), as a son of
Tomáš Kubíček and Barbora nee Novák. But the hypothese had to be wrong, because this boy died the same year.
2) Josef Kubíček. Yes, the firstname is different. He was born i 1813 at village Domanín, house nr. 16, as a son of Matěj Kubíček and Anna.

Mother Anna widowed and remarried in 1821, his new husband was Bartoloměj Perkous. TThis couple, together with children later moved to America.
But sources does not say anything about date of their emigration. There was not found also any source, whether Josef were out of home in military service.
Brasilian sources from town of Diamantina tells, that he was a cabinaet-maker, and came from Třeboň. But in 1790-1820 was not mentioned any Kubíček at Třeboň.
Jan Nepomuk Kubíček came to Brasil, most probably as a soldier under commanf of major Schäffer, to support Emperore of Brasil Pedro I. Wife of the emperor was Leopoldina, a daughter of Austrian Emperor Francis I. And Třeboň, Bohemia belonged to the Austrian Empire, in that times.

Mikula
11-18-2017, 11:36 AM
IMHO, it will be perhaps helpful to check data of Kriegsarchive at Vienna. There are stored alphabetical list of the soldiers (includes Bohemia) since year 1780 (http://www.genea.cz/informace/pomucky/ostatni-pomucky/grundbuchsblaetter-diverse-1780-1930/).
Ones were microphilmed by LDS and the microphilms are possible to study

Mortimer
11-18-2017, 12:07 PM
He had not Roma ancestry - as Mikula said it is only a myth caused the fact in "Latin" countries - Bohemians = Gypsies (when a Gypsy clan came to a"Latin" country they claimed they came from Bohemia).

Jan Nepomuk Kubíček wasn't Gypsy. Deal with it.

If the official narrative is that he was i believe that. Probably geneaological research was already done or it wouldnt be claimed. We dont need armchair scientists like you and mikula deal with it

Mortimer
11-18-2017, 12:09 PM
IMHO, it will be perhaps helpful to check data of Kriegsarchive at Vienna. There are stored alphabetical list of the soldiers (includes Bohemia) since year 1780 (http://www.genea.cz/informace/pomucky/ostatni-pomucky/grundbuchsblaetter-diverse-1780-1930/).
Ones were microphilmed by LDS and the microphilms are possible to study

Geneaological research was certainly already done by experts. I believe it because everyone says it

Magnolia
11-18-2017, 12:17 PM
If the official narrative is that he was i believe that. Probably geneaological research was already done or it wouldnt be claimed. We dont need armchair scientists like you and mikula deal with it

Nothing official about it. Mainly Gypsies "communities" says that to "prove" some famous people of Gypsy origin exist.
His grandmother father was Czech and her mother was Portuguese.

Litvinski
11-18-2017, 12:24 PM
Probably Pardo = Brown.

Mortimer
11-18-2017, 12:25 PM
Nothing official about it. Mainly Gypsies "communities" says that to "prove" some famous people of Gypsy origin exist.
His grandmother father was Czech and her mother was Portuguese.

Not only gypsies say it. Deal with it you lier.

Magnolia
11-18-2017, 05:00 PM
Not only gypsies say it. Deal with it you lier.

:) Of course it is a Gypsy aim to claim he was Gypsy... Read once again what wrote Mikula. That guy was a Czech (Bohemian) soldier, he had a typical Czech name btw. (not a Gypsy name) and he married to a Portuguese woman; the rest of his ancestors were of Portuguese origin.

Mikula
11-18-2017, 05:18 PM
Geneaological research was certainly already done by experts. I believe it because everyone says it

Whay are you so angry, bro?
If somebody will show me some document, proving that Kubitschek ancestors were Gypsies at Bohemia, I will have not any problem with it.
But until the time when will be found undoubted birth/baptismal record (written in the original church baptismal book) about his origin, we can just speculate about it.
And as an amateur researcher I can say you that there are exists several myths, about origin of famous persons, what were found as mistakes. If you wish I can name you some examples.
Iit is natural that people copying the biographical data, without veryfying the sources - and when somebody made a mistake, his followers multiplying it.
Trust, but verify (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust,_but_verify)

Black Panther
11-18-2017, 10:03 PM
People do not get noticed in small details. If you have white skin youre taken as white. Everyone knows that there are whites in Brazil, but many considered white are only seen as white because they have white skin.

If Ourobouros still doubt this, he can take a look at this map made by G1 which contains the images of multiple victims or murder/suicide throughout Brazil during a week:

http://especiais.g1.globo.com/monitor-da-violencia/2017/uma-semana-de-mortes-violentas-no-brasil/

You can filter race and state of origin there, so you can for example search for Whites in São Paulo. A lot of those murder/suicide victims are basically light-skinned mulattoes/pardos or castizos who checked White on the census. And that's São Paulo! Can you imagine how it is in the rest of Brazil excluding the South?

JMack
11-18-2017, 10:14 PM
If Ourobouros still doubt this, he can take a look at this map made by G1 which contains the images of multiple victims or murder/suicide throughout Brazil during a week:

http://especiais.g1.globo.com/monitor-da-violencia/2017/uma-semana-de-mortes-violentas-no-brasil/

You can filter race and state of origin there, so you can for example search for Whites in São Paulo. A lot of those murder/suicide victims are basically light-skinned mulattoes/pardos or castizos who checked White on the census. And that's São Paulo! Can you imagine how it is in the rest of Brazil excluding the South?

Most are still counted as pardos. There are even people who could pass as white marked as ''pardos''. But indeed there are many light skinned mongrels counted as whites.

It just confirms something that I said many times: ethnic backgroud doesn't count in Brazil and Brazilians doesn't know what is a ''white'' or a ''black''. One drup rule would improve a lot racial relations in Brazil, that's why I support the nigger movements. Don't get me wrong I'm not hardcore racist, I just think preservation is better for everyone.

But people know what is a ''white'' at the end of the day. Generally the ones called ''branquelos'' are almost always true whites. But of course this term excludes some people who are in fact whites too.

I have always said that people like Xavi (Spaniard), Nesta (Italian) or Dua Lipa (Albanian) wouldn't pass as whites in Brazil. But there is white as skin color description and white as ''socially'' white. They would pass as the later.

As an anedocte I can tell you that my mother, for example, isn't someone who is particularly knowledgeable in racial matters, but she always detects light pardos who pretend they are whites. Some days ago she commented with me like how a woman we know personally who is very white skinned and is light eyed have ''negro traits''.

Black Panther
11-18-2017, 10:21 PM
Most are still counted as pardos. There are even people who could pass as white marked as ''pardos''. But indeed there are many light skinned mongrels counted as whites.

It just confirms something that I said many times: ethnic backgroud doesn't count in Brazil and Brazilians doesn't know what is a ''white'' or a ''black''. One drup rule would improve a lot racial relations in Brazil, that's why I support the nigger movements. Don't get me wrong I'm not hardcore racist, I just think preservation is better for everyone.

But people know what is a ''white'' at the end of the day. Generally the ones called ''branquelos'' are almost always true whites. But of course this term excludes some people who are in fact whites too.

I have always said that people like Xavi (Spaniard), Nesta (Italian) or Dua Lipa (Albanian) wouldn't pass as whites in Brazil. But there is white as skin color description and white as ''socially'' white. They would pass as the later.

My mother, for example, isn't someone who is particularly knowledgeable in racial matters, but she always detects light pardos who pretend they are whites. Some days ago she commented with me like how a woman we know personally who is very white skinned and is light eyed have ''negro traits''.

Well, self-declared pardos are over represented in murder statistics, though not in suicide statistics. That's why most of them were pardos.

Heather Duval
11-19-2017, 12:42 AM
Most are still counted as pardos. There are even people who could pass as white marked as ''pardos''. But indeed there are many light skinned mongrels counted as whites.

It just confirms something that I said many times: ethnic backgroud doesn't count in Brazil and Brazilians doesn't know what is a ''white'' or a ''black''. One drup rule would improve a lot racial relations in Brazil, that's why I support the nigger movements. Don't get me wrong I'm not hardcore racist, I just think preservation is better for everyone.

But people know what is a ''white'' at the end of the day. Generally the ones called ''branquelos'' are almost always true whites. But of course this term excludes some people who are in fact whites too.

I have always said that people like Xavi (Spaniard), Nesta (Italian) or Dua Lipa (Albanian) wouldn't pass as whites in Brazil. But there is white as skin color description and white as ''socially'' white. They would pass as the later.

As an anedocte I can tell you that my mother, for example, isn't someone who is particularly knowledgeable in racial matters, but she always detects light pardos who pretend they are whites. Some days ago she commented with me like how a woman we know personally who is very white skinned and is light eyed have ''negro traits''.

Usually people who are self declared pardos are people with brown skin. Light skinned mongrels claims to be white.

Black Panther
11-19-2017, 10:08 PM
Usually people who are self declared pardos are people with brown skin. Light skinned mongrels claims to be white.

That's why my cousin always told me, "you are a Brazilian White boy, not a European White boy". LoL.