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View Full Version : Sicilian GEDmatch from ancient Greek town in Ragusa.. Santa Croce Camarina



Sikeliot
09-03-2017, 03:45 PM
This is a modern person.

Their father is from Santa Croce Camarina, in Ragusa, the site of one of the Doric Greek cities in southeast Sicily. Their mother is from Menfi in Agrigento, a region of heavy MENA influence.

Even with half of their Sicilian side likely to be "exotic" we can see what happens here because of their father's side. This person is closer to Epirotes (NW Greece) than to Cretans, and is close to half Peloponnese, half Sicilian if you model it on oracle.

On other oracles, it takes less excess MENA to complete them when you model their majority as Greek. Most Sicilians are close to 60/40 Greek to Cypriot, this person can be modeled as 80% Greek and 20% Cypriot.

MDLP K23:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 36.53
2 European_Early_Farmers 23.98
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 15.17
4 Near_East 10.61
5 South_Central_Asian 6.94
6 North_African 4.32


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_West_ @ 4.375132
2 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 5.096630
3 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.101099
4 Ashkenazi_ @ 5.689938
5 Sicilian_East_ @ 6.136982
6 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 6.254027
7 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 7.013033
8 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 7.135573
9 Central_Greek_ @ 7.251184
10 Romanian_Jew_ @ 7.397178
11 Greek_Athens_ @ 7.496558
12 Greek_ @ 7.526618
13 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 7.651533
14 Greek_Northwest_ @ 7.882602
15 Cretan_ @ 8.024005
16 Italian_South_ @ 8.183799
17 Greek_Thessaly_ @ 8.292286
18 Maltese_ @ 8.400067
19 Albanian_Tirana_ @ 8.673336
20 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.673998

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Peloponnesos_ +50% Sicilian_West_ @ 2.534854


Eurogenes K15:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 25.77
2 West_Med 18.04
3 Atlantic 17.21
4 West_Asian 14.88
5 North_Sea 9.4
6 Red_Sea 6.37
7 Baltic 5.28
8 South_Asian 1.09
9 Northeast_African 0.92
10 Eastern_Euro 0.87
11 Sub-Saharan 0.15

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 3.79
2 East_Sicilian 4.05
3 West_Sicilian 4.64
4 South_Italian 4.73
5 Central_Greek 5.02
6 Ashkenazi 7.86
7 Tuscan 8.28
8 Greek 9.03
9 Italian_Jewish 9.12
10 Sephardic_Jewish 9.38
11 Greek_Thessaly 10.15
12 Algerian_Jewish 10.66
13 Tunisian_Jewish 13.94
14 North_Italian 14.76
15 Bulgarian 16.11
16 Libyan_Jewish 16.38
17 Cyprian 16.99
18 Romanian 18.08
19 Turkish 19.59
20 Lebanese_Muslim 19.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.1% South_Italian + 14.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.34
2 89.5% South_Italian + 10.5% French_Basque @ 2.4
3 86.2% South_Italian + 13.8% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.47
4 84% South_Italian + 16% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.5
5 85% South_Italian + 15% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.51
6 84% South_Italian + 16% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.51
7 86.6% South_Italian + 13.4% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.54
8 87.1% South_Italian + 12.9% Southwest_French @ 2.58
9 85.2% South_Italian + 14.8% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.59
10 84.5% South_Italian + 15.5% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.61
11 92% East_Sicilian + 8% French_Basque @ 2.68
12 66.8% South_Italian + 33.2% Tuscan @ 2.68
13 85.6% South_Italian + 14.4% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.7
14 71.7% Tuscan + 28.3% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.7
15 85% South_Italian + 15% Portuguese @ 2.75
16 59.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 40.2% South_Italian @ 2.77
17 57.6% Cyprian + 42.4% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.79
18 79.3% South_Italian + 20.7% North_Italian @ 2.84
19 85.7% South_Italian + 14.3% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.84
20 87.5% South_Italian + 12.5% French @ 2.92


Dodecad K12b:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 32.74
2 Atlantic_Med 28.29
3 North_European 15.34
4 Southwest_Asian 11.96
5 Gedrosia 5.93
6 Northwest_African 4.17
7 East_African 0.81
8 South_Asian 0.76

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian (Dodecad) 5.1
2 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 5.17
3 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 7.12
4 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 7.32
5 C_Italian (Dodecad) 7.41
6 Greek (Dodecad) 7.61
7 O_Italian (Dodecad) 9.93
8 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 10.8
9 Tuscan (HGDP) 11.42
10 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 12.37
11 TSI30 (Metspalu) 12.37
12 N_Italian (Dodecad) 18.08
13 North_Italian (HGDP) 19.4
14 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 19.71
15 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 20.04
16 Cypriots (Behar) 20.06
17 Romanians (Behar) 21.02
18 Turkish (Dodecad) 21.4
19 Lebanese (Behar) 23.51
20 Turks (Behar) 23.85

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 21.9% German (Dodecad) @ 1.55
2 82% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 18% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 2.16
3 82.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 17.9% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.16
4 76.8% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 23.2% Hungarians (Behar) @ 2.23
5 52.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 47.8% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.26
6 78.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 21.5% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 2.27
7 79.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 20.7% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 2.32
8 93.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 6.8% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.43
9 93.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 6.6% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.44
10 93.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 6.6% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 2.46
11 93.6% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 6.4% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 2.48
12 92.5% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 7.5% Russian (HGDP) @ 2.53
13 92.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 7.7% Russian (HGDP) @ 2.55
14 92.2% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 7.8% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.56
15 91.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 8.3% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.58
16 77.1% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 22.9% Lebanese (Behar) @ 2.59
17 92.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 7.9% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.6
18 91.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 8.4% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.63
19 79.5% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 20.5% Jordanians (Behar) @ 2.63
20 93.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 6.5% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 2.66



PuntDNA-L K13:
# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 39.3
2 West_Asia 22.79
3 NE_Europe 18.3
4 SW_Asia 14.85
5 South_Asia 1.33
6 South_Africa 0.84
7 East_Africa 0.72
8 West_Africa 0.71
9 SE_Asia 0.65
10 Americas 0.35
11 Siberia 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazy_Jew 3.38
2 Italian_Abruzzo 3.67
3 Italian_Sicilian 3.71
4 Greek_Central 5.45
5 Sephardic_Jew 7.65
6 Greek_Thessaly 8.92
7 Albanian 9.45
8 Italian_Tuscan 10.55
9 Kosovar 10.85
10 Bulgarian 15.63
11 Macedonian 15.92
12 Italian_Bergamo 16.24
13 Cypriot 16.28
14 Turkish 16.74
15 Romanian 17.98
16 Montenegrin 18.81
17 Turkish_Aydin 19.05
18 Turkish_Kayseri 19.22
19 Syrian 21
20 Serbian 21.25

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 57.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 42.8% French_Basque @ 1.6
2 58.1% Lebanese_Druze + 41.9% French_Basque @ 1.71
3 59% Syrian + 41% French_Basque @ 1.89
4 89.4% Italian_Sicilian + 10.6% French @ 1.89
5 90.4% Italian_Sicilian + 9.6% Belgian @ 1.9
6 90.9% Italian_Sicilian + 9.1% English @ 1.91
7 90.2% Italian_Sicilian + 9.8% German_South @ 1.91
8 91.4% Italian_Sicilian + 8.6% Orcadian @ 1.94
9 91.5% Italian_Sicilian + 8.5% Utahn_European @ 1.95
10 91.6% Ashkenazy_Jew + 8.4% French_Basque @ 1.95
11 91.5% Italian_Sicilian + 8.5% Irish @ 1.95
12 91.2% Italian_Sicilian + 8.8% Scottish @ 1.95
13 76.7% Italian_Sicilian + 23.3% Italian_Tuscan @ 1.96
14 74.7% Italian_Sicilian + 25.3% Albanian @ 1.99
15 92.6% Italian_Sicilian + 7.4% Norwegian @ 2
16 83.8% Italian_Sicilian + 16.2% Italian_Bergamo @ 2
17 83.3% Italian_Sicilian + 16.7% Bulgarian @ 2.03
18 93% Italian_Sicilian + 7% Swedish @ 2.05
19 87.2% Italian_Sicilian + 12.8% Serbian @ 2.05
20 87.6% Italian_Sicilian + 12.4% Spaniard @ 2.05


Eurasia K9 ASI:
# Population Percent
1 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 30.86
2 WHG 22.73
3 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 21.22
4 SW_Asian 19.23
5 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 4.52
6 W_African 1.44

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 2.69
2 Greek 4.8
3 Maltese 5.32
4 Albanian 7.63
5 Tuscan 7.86
6 Bulgarian 13.45
7 Turkish 16.2
8 Cypriot 16.46
9 Spanish 18.47
10 Kumyk 21.13
11 Adygei 21.37
12 Lebanese 21.62
13 Croatian 22.57
14 Druze 22.58
15 Armenian 22.68
16 Chechen 23.33
17 Syrian 23.41
18 French 23.41
19 Jordanian 24.01
20 Azeri 24.09

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.6% Tuscan + 25.4% Armenian @ 1.51
2 76.2% Tuscan + 23.8% Georgian_Jew @ 1.76
3 77.5% Tuscan + 22.5% Iranian_Jew @ 1.76
4 83.5% Greek + 16.5% Druze @ 1.8
5 82.9% Greek + 17.1% Lebanese @ 1.8
6 94.7% Sicilian + 5.3% Tajik_Pomiri @ 1.8
7 93% Sicilian + 7% Lezgin @ 1.81
8 96.1% Sicilian + 3.9% KOTIAS @ 1.81
9 97.6% Sicilian + 2.4% SATSURBILA @ 1.83
10 92.2% Sicilian + 7.8% Chechen @ 1.84
11 84% Greek + 16% Syrian @ 1.85
12 85.4% Greek + 14.6% Iraqi_Jew @ 1.89
13 91.9% Sicilian + 8.1% Adygei @ 1.94
14 84.5% Greek + 15.5% Jordanian @ 1.94
15 96.3% Sicilian + 3.7% Kalash @ 1.95
16 92% Sicilian + 8% Kumyk @ 1.96
17 95.7% Sicilian + 4.3% Pashtun_Afghan @ 2
18 78.9% Greek + 21.1% Cypriot @ 2
19 96.5% Sicilian + 3.5% Kurd_SE @ 2.01
20 96.3% Sicilian + 3.7% Pathan @ 2.01


Near East Neolithic K13:
# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 33.91
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 23.08
3 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 15.26
4 NATUFIAN 12.21
5 SHG_WHG 6.46
6 EHG 5.75
7 SUB_SAHARAN 2.34
8 SIBERIAN 0.55
9 KARITIANA 0.45

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 4.69
2 Greek 5.39
3 Italian_South 7.25
4 Albanian 7.74
5 Jew_Ashkenazi 7.82
6 Bulgarian 12.62
7 Turkish_Istanbul 12.66
8 Jew_Moroccan 12.67
9 Turkish 13.28
10 Turkish_Balekesir 15.27
11 Cypriot 15.37
12 Romanian 15.99
13 Turkish_Aydin 16.86
14 Turkish_Adana 17.46
15 Turkish_Kayseri 17.88
16 Jew_Tunisian 18.38
17 Jew_Libyan 18.59
18 Turkish_Trabzon 20.52
19 Balkar 20.89
20 Lebanese 21.08

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.8% Sicilian + 7.2% Armenia_MLBA @ 3.62
2 85.7% Italian_South + 14.3% Armenia_ChL @ 3.63
3 90.6% Greek + 9.4% Armenia_ChL @ 3.69
4 92% Greek + 8% Anatolia_ChL @ 3.72
5 92.2% Greek + 7.8% Iran_recent @ 3.76
6 87.9% Italian_South + 12.1% Anatolia_ChL @ 3.76
7 94.1% Greek + 5.9% Iran_ChL @ 3.79
8 93.3% Sicilian + 6.7% Armenia_ChL @ 3.82
9 96% Sicilian + 4% Iran_ChL @ 3.92
10 94.8% Sicilian + 5.2% Iran_recent @ 3.95
11 69.1% Albanian + 30.9% Cypriot @ 3.96
12 75.7% Albanian + 24.3% Lebanese @ 3.98
13 79.2% Albanian + 20.8% Jew_iraqi @ 4
14 91.4% Greek + 8.6% Armenia_MLBA @ 4
15 80.4% Greek + 19.6% Cypriot @ 4
16 85.3% Greek + 14.7% Lebanese @ 4.04
17 97.5% Sicilian + 2.5% Iran_LN @ 4.08
18 97.5% Sicilian + 2.5% Iran_N @ 4.08
19 77.6% Greek + 22.4% Jew_Moroccan @ 4.13
20 61.2% Sicilian + 38.8% Greek @ 4.15

DarknessWin
09-03-2017, 07:29 PM
good find

Sikeliot
09-03-2017, 07:33 PM
good find

What is your opinion on it?

RN97
09-03-2017, 07:43 PM
You're jacking off too much to these damn calculators. All it means is that he leans slightly NE of your average Sicilian. Nothing unusual. There doesn't exist one population where everyone are the exact same.

DarknessWin
09-03-2017, 08:30 PM
What is your opinion on it?

His dorian side from his Father turn him eastnorth when his mother turn his southeast in Levant

gültekin
09-03-2017, 08:44 PM
Guess what, some Sicilians are slightly more north shifted than average whereas some are slightly more levant shifted. They aren't clones for God's sake.

Sicilians who are a bit levant shifted are true sicilians but those with slightly north shift have to be Greek descendants lol, as we all know Greeks are a Northeast European population and totally alien in mediterrenean. So anything "northern" in sicily comes from Greeks

Sikeliot
09-03-2017, 08:52 PM
Guess what, some Sicilians are slightly more north shifted than average whereas some are slightly more levant shifted. They aren't clones for God's sake.

Sicilians who are a bit levant shifted are true sicilians but those with slightly north shift have to be Greek descendants lol, as we all know Greeks are a Northeast European population and totally alien in mediterrenean. So anything "northern" in sicily comes from Greeks

There are people who shift north in and around Trapani also but there you can see it is not Greek because the northward shift comes from having more "Atlanto-Med" type ancestry (Sardinian) without any increase in the NE European. There are also Lombard descendants in the inland east.

But it makes sense for some people to shift north due to Greek input, especially in places colonized heavily by Dorians.

Kouros
09-03-2017, 09:30 PM
Guess what, some Sicilians are slightly more north shifted than average whereas some are slightly more levant shifted. They aren't clones for God's sake.

Sicilians who are a bit levant shifted are true sicilians but those with slightly north shift have to be Greek descendants lol, as we all know Greeks are a Northeast European population and totally alien in mediterrenean. So anything "northern" in sicily comes from Greeks

Regardless if they are Levant shifted or Northern shifted they all have varying magnitudes of Greek ancestry. No one ever claimed that 'north-shifted Sicilians are true Greek descendants' so stop strawmanning like an autistic faggot. The Italian is from a Doric Greek colony and matches with Greek regions which were also historically Dorian.

gültekin
09-03-2017, 09:41 PM
Regardless if they are Levant shifted or Northern shifted they all have varying magnitudes of Greek ancestry. No one ever claimed that 'north-shifted Sicilians are true Greek descendants' so stop strawmanning like an autistic faggot.

Twat, are you serious? That's what Sikeliot has been implying for years. South Italians even built an anti-Sikeliot online base (ItalicRoots) just because they are tired of his propaganda LOL

Kouros
09-03-2017, 10:36 PM
No one ever claimed that 'north-shifted Sicilians are true Greek descendants' so stop strawmanning like an autistic faggot.


Twat, are you serious? That's what Sikeliot has been implying for years.
If he has then all the power to him, I don't see him claiming that in this thread however. The population sharing from that Italian (from a doric colony) correlates with Dorian settlement in the mainland (Peloponnese, N. Greece) and their origins are ambiguous compared to other Hellenic groups. There are paintings of Ionian and Achaean Greeks in Magna Graecia, and they are all on the swarthy end of the spectrum:

https://i.imgur.com/R5P4dpa.jpg

Art from Doric colonies on the other hand doesn't exist and never has. If sikeliot believes that Dorians were more North-Eastern shifted than were other groups than I don't see a problem as long as it's rooted in some type of evidence.

DarknessWin
09-04-2017, 12:25 AM
Guess what, some Sicilians are slightly more north shifted than average whereas some are slightly more levant shifted. They aren't clones for God's sake.

Sicilians who are a bit levant shifted are true sicilians but those with slightly north shift have to be Greek descendants lol, as we all know Greeks are a Northeast European population and totally alien in mediterrenean. So anything "northern" in sicily comes from Greeks


I heard that they ban all trolls in TA but this idiot its still here

Sikeliot
09-04-2017, 12:38 PM
I heard that they ban all trolls in TA but this idiot its still here

Talk to Loki. If I had my way he would be banned but I cannot decide on my own.... :lol: