Latest DNA study show that Myceneans and Minoans were Neolithic and non Indoeuropeans

[DarknessWin]

Latest DNA study show that Myceneans and Minoans were Neolithic non Indoeuropeans

https://phys.org/news/2017-08-civilizations-greece-revealing-stories-science.html

[DarknessWin]

So this is the end of Indoeuropean theory ,
its time for their propaganda to collapse

Indoeuropeans make not even 1 civilization in the history
and they were just savages and gypsies that time

[Ox Helicopters]

When looking at them with Eurogenes k=36, the Northern/Central European/Eastern European ancestry is very minimal with the exception of the Crete Armenoi sample. Most of the 40 Ashkenazi Jews that I examined had more Northern/Eastern European ancestry than these individuals besides the Crete Armenoi individual.

[DarknessWin]

Myceneans were strong Military civilization, they worked metal weapons before indoeuropeans.

Another collapse in the myth that Neolithics were just Farmers.
They had the bigger military civilizations like Myceneans and then Spartans

https://stefanosskarmintzos.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/12020464_102079402matt-poitras-at-mp-filmcraft.jpg?w=497&h=279

Mycaenean "demonic warrior" reconstructed by Matt Poitras

http://www.kultofathena.com/images/SBK024_2_l.jpg

Mycenean Sword

[Dibran]

They were 30 percent steppe which was derived from Indoeuropeans. Otherwise they would be Sardinian like with no steppe. I would think only Pelasgian and Minoan cultures can be truly regarded as Fully Neolithic or absent steppe.

[Lavrentis]

They were 30 percent steppe which was derived from Indoeuropeans. Otherwise they would be Sardinian like with no steppe. I would think only Pelasgian and Minoan cultures can be truly regarded as Fully Neolithic or absent steppe.

Sardinians do have some Hunter Gatherer. Isn't Hunter Gatherer the same with Steppe?

[DarknessWin]

When looking at them with Eurogenes k=36, the Northern/Central European/Eastern European ancestry is very minimal with the exception of the Crete Armenoi sample. Most of the 40 Ashkenazi Jews that I examined had more Northern/Eastern European ancestry than these individuals besides the Crete Armenoi individual.

I speak about the old Civilizations in Greece ,
and i dont believe the theory of Indoeuropean Languages

They try to make Indoeuropeans like something special in Europe but actually they were just savages here.
Native Europeans and Neolithics were the people who created Europe

[DarknessWin]

They were 30 percent steppe which was derived from Indoeuropeans. Otherwise they would be Sardinian like with no steppe. I would think only Pelasgian and Minoan cultures can be truly regarded as Fully Neolithic or absent steppe.

Indoeuropeans came from India, not Steppes.
They have nothing to do with Europe

[Dibran]

Sardinians do have some Hunter Gatherer. Isn't Hunter Gatherer the same with Steppe?


I am not certain.

[Ox Helicopters]

I do not really agree but regarding the genetics of these samples, only the Crete Armenoi sample has significant Northern/Eastern European ancestry with k=36. Both Minoans have 0% Northern/Eastern European, two Myceneans have 0%, one Mycenean has 6.56% and one Mycenean has 0.29%. Crete Armenoi sample has 31.3% Northern/Eastern European ancestry.

[Dibran]

Indoeuropeans came from India, not Steppes.
They have nothing to do with Europe

Indo Europeans came from the Steppe. That is the widely accepted view in academics. No one largely supports the out of India theory.

[Sikeliot]

Despite the paper and that article saying that Greeks are closely related to the Mycenaeans, I personally found their GEDmatch results to be very different from modern Greeks and didn't think they appeared particularly close. Though we do know you can model Greeks as 70% Mycenaean and 30% east-central European.

[Lavrentis]

Despite the paper and that article saying that Greeks are closely related to the Mycenaeans, I personally found their GEDmatch results to be very different from modern Greeks and didn't think they appeared particularly close. Though we do know you can model Greeks as 70% Mycenaean and 30% east-central European.

And how do we know the ancestry of the GEDmatch Greeks ? They could have been Anatolian Greeks, so Hellenized West Asians. Or Arvanites, who are Hellenized Albanians. Or mixed. Northern Greece is 50% Anatolian. There has to happen a DNA work on southern Greeks (Peloponnesians, Cretans) and island Greeks.

[Laberia]

Indoeuropeans came from India, not Steppes.
They have nothing to do with Europe

Greek is an indoeuropean language.

[DarknessWin]

Despite the paper and that article saying that Greeks are closely related to the Mycenaeans, I personally found their GEDmatch results to be very different from modern Greeks and didn't think they appeared particularly close. Though we do know you can model Greeks as 70% Mycenaean and 30% east-central European.

I told you that Dorians were in majority Indoeuropeans ,
the article speak about Myceneans and Minoans.

That's explain why Cretans get more neolithic than rest of Greece

[DarknessWin]

Greek is an indoeuropean language.

Its not , its just a theory.
North Europeans want to make us all Indoeuropeans because without the civilizations of South europe they are just
cavemans like Africans

[DarknessWin]

And how do we know the ancestry of the GEDmatch Greeks ? They could have been Anatolian Greeks, so Hellenized West Asians. Or Arvanites, who are Hellenized Albanians. Or mixed. Northern Greece is 50% Anatolian. There has to happen a DNA work on southern Greeks (Peloponnesians, Cretans) and island Greeks.

Anatolian Greeks 50% in North Greece ?? Is this a joke??
They dont even 10-20% at max including the mixed ones

Arvanites are not hellenized Albanians as you say, they are Vlachs and
Vlachs are native Greeks speaking other language

[DarknessWin]

Indo Europeans came from the Steppe. That is the widely accepted view in academics. No one largely supports the out of India theory.

No the theory say that they came from North India and that's why they called Indo-Europeans

[Laberia]

Its not , its just a theory.
North Europeans want to make us all Indoeuropeans because without the civilizations of South europe they are just
cavemans like Africans

How do you explain the similarities between indoeuropean languages?

[DarknessWin]

How do you explain the similarities between indoeuropean languages?

From native European tribes

[Laberia]

Anatolian Greeks 50% in North Greece ?? Is this a joke??
They dont even 10-20% at max including the mixed ones

Arvanites are not hellenized Albanians as you say, they are Vlachs and
Vlachs are native Greeks speaking other language
Arvanites are hellenised Albanians. Stop with this BS and don`t destroy this thread. Concentrate on the topic.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

Interesting the ancient Sardinian warriors also had similar helmets The them and metallurgy :
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/736x/27/49/d9/2749d9866374425293a2f9d72bf6d432.jpg[\img]

[DarknessWin]

Arvanites are hellenised Albanians. Stop with this BS and don`t destroy this thread. Concentrate on the topic.

Dont start this again, i know very well their story. They are vlachs

[ADonkeyBrain]

They were 30 percent steppe which was derived from Indoeuropeans. Otherwise they would be Sardinian like with no steppe. I would think only Pelasgian and Minoan cultures can be truly regarded as Fully Neolithic or absent steppe.

Leaving the low-quality Armenoi sample aside, they were much lower than 30% steppe. The paper modelled them as 80% Minoan and 20% Europe_LNBA (Corded Ware and the like) or 87% Minoan and 13% Steppe_EMBA (i.e. Yamnaya, Afanasievo, the 'pure' steppe populations). Or as the authors summarize elsewhere:


The successful models agree that Mycenaeans have most of their ancestry from the Neolithic substratum (~74-79%), with the remainder from both the Eastern European/Siberian set of populations (~5-16%), and the Iran/Caucasus populations (~9-18%).

But the OP is utterly wrong of course. It's like he didn't even bother to read the paper. And Lavrentis is being a moron as usual.


Despite the paper and that article saying that Greeks are closely related to the Mycenaeans, I personally found their GEDmatch results to be very different from modern Greeks and didn't think they appeared particularly close. Though we do know you can model Greeks as 70% Mycenaean and 30% east-central European.

That's just subjective at the end of the day. What we do know is that overall those ancient Southeastern European samples were closest to modern Southeastern Europeans (Greeks, Albanians, Central and South Italians) but not exactly like them since (the main difference is that) the modern ones are much less Neolithic and much more steppe.

[Laberia]

From native European tribes
No. I want to quote an Albanian linguist, Xhevat Lloshi, one of the best here in Albania, from his last study:
Periudhat historike të shqipes
Historical periods of Albanian language
Sorry for the Gg translation:


The words of the IE languages testify to the areas of distribution and living conditions. They had in common words for the winter, but not for the sea (that is, they are not formed in the shores), for trees (beech, wood) and animals (bear, wolf) that testify to forest areas; they knew to count at least until one hundred and the denomination of number 100 serves to distinguish centum (lat.) - satem (avestically), which occurred with their separation. They had started to do a sedentary life, grow wheat, keep cattle, wiggle, use bow and arrow. Before they were separated, they knew little metal work, beginning with copper. They had passed into the patriarchal family, as the terms of kinship testify, knew leaders, believed in divinity, and had some ethical imaginations.

[DarknessWin]

Interesting the ancient Sardinian warriors also had similar helmets The them and metallurgy :
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/736x/27/49/d9/2749d9866374425293a2f9d72bf6d432.jpg[\img]

Maybe but the statue is in poor contition and Helmets of Myceneans look more like Viking helmets

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/09/e0/ba/09e0ba687297c476a544d040fd427a34--trojan-war-mycenaean.jpg

[Bosniensis]

...

So this video is correct after all:

Rome was a Greek Hellenic State not Lombard/Frank City state:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a0ODTqPXkk


I have received so much insults for stating that Balkan peoples aren't IE.

[Laberia]

Dont start this again, i know very well their story. They are vlachs

You know a shit. You are an hellenised slav. Stop now.

[DarknessWin]

No. I want to quote an Albanian linguist, Xhevat Lloshi, one of the best here in Albania, from his last study:
Periudhat historike të shqipes
Historical periods of Albanian language
Sorry for the Gg translation:

The neolithic Myceneans were the first with patriarchal family,metallurgy etc so all that is bullshit.
Also Myceneans used Boxing as a training, they were really forefathers of the Spartans and have nothing to do with Indoeuropeanσ

According to Iliad, Mycenaean warriors included boxing in their competitions. They did this to honor those who had died. It is possible that Homer told about what the Greeks did, at a later time. Boxing was one of the contests held in memory of Achilles' friend Patroclus, who was killed toward the end of the Trojan War. To commemorate Patroclus the Greeks later introduced boxing to the Olympic Games in 688 BC. Spartan soldiers adopted this form of fighting to train themselves to take massive blows to the head without causing major damage. However, this form of boxing was not considered to be a major spectator sport.

Its funny that people here say that Neolithics were peaceful farmers but it turn that they were the best warriors in Ancient world. LOL .

[DarknessWin]

So this video is correct after all:

Rome was a Greek Hellenic State not Lombard/Frank City state:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a0ODTqPXkk


I have received so much insults for stating that Balkan peoples aren't IE.

Yes it was

[Bosniensis]

Greek is an indoeuropean language.

Greek language was formed from Ancient Phoenecian language, Phoenecians were NOT Indo European people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_language


Both Latin and Greek have nothing to do with IE languages.

Phoenician was a variety of the Canaanite languages. However, due to the very slight differences in language, and the insufficient records of the time, whether Phoenician formed a separate and united dialect, or was merely a superficially defined part of a broader language continuum, is unclear. Through their maritime trade, the Phoenicians spread the use of the alphabet to North Africa and Europe, where it was adopted by the Greeks. Later, the Etruscans adopted a modified version for their own use, which, in turn, was modified and adopted by the Romans and became the Latin alphabet

Phoenecians lived in Syria, Northern Africa.

[DarknessWin]

You know a shit. You are an hellenised slav. Stop now.

Half of Balkans and even Rome were kids of Myceneans and Pelasgians , so its actually the other way around.
I am not hellenized Slav, actually all of you are Albanized,Slavized, Romanized Greeks

[ADonkeyBrain]

Fucking hell, yet another topic taken over by wackery. Bosniensis, read a book or two on the Indo-European linguistic family, go grab Beekes's Comparative Indo-European Linguistics: An Introduction.

You're confusing the Phoenician alphabet with the Phoenician language. Those Mycenaeans in the study used Linear B to write an Indo-European language.

[DarknessWin]

Greek language was formed from Ancient Phoenecian language, Phoenecians were NOT Indo European people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_language


Both Latin and Greek have nothing to do with IE languages.

Phoenician was a variety of the Canaanite languages. However, due to the very slight differences in language, and the insufficient records of the time, whether Phoenician formed a separate and united dialect, or was merely a superficially defined part of a broader language continuum, is unclear. Through their maritime trade, the Phoenicians spread the use of the alphabet to North Africa and Europe, where it was adopted by the Greeks. Later, the Etruscans adopted a modified version for their own use, which, in turn, was modified and adopted by the Romans and became the Latin alphabet

Phoenecians lived in Syria, Northern Africa.


Its not phoenician language, they just used some letters of Phoenician Alphabet its what the theory say (still this is not proven).
I believe the language is based in Pelasgian native, so not Phoenician and not Indoeuropean just native

And that's because Greek language have nothing in common with Semitic languages but also have nothing in common with North European languages

[Megadorian]

J-M172(2x), J-Z39482, J-M319(2x), J-PF7263

These are the samples from western Crete and nearby isolated regions of lakonia, some cretans sought refugee in the nearby lakonian regions so there's a bond between the island and them

So far, no R1b or R1a sample has come to surface

[Dibran]

Leaving the low-quality Armenoi sample aside, they were much lower than 30% steppe. The paper modelled them as 80% Minoan and 20% Europe_LNBA (Corded Ware and the like) or 87% Minoan and 13% Steppe_EMBA (i.e. Yamnaya, Afanasievo, the 'pure' steppe populations). Or as the authors summarize elsewhere:



But the OP is utterly wrong of course. It's like he didn't even bother to read the paper. And Lavrentis is being a moron as usual.



That's just subjective at the end of the day. What we do know is that overall those ancient Southeastern European samples were closest to modern Southeastern Europeans (Greeks, Albanians, Central and South Italians) but not exactly like them since (the main difference is that) the modern ones are much less Neolithic and much more steppe.

Ahh, thanks for the clarification. I wonder where I read it from. Could have confused it with a gedmatch report of the sample in question.

[Bosniensis]

Its not phoenician language, they just used some letters of Phoenician Alphabet its what the theory say (still this is not proven).
I believe the language is based in Pelasgian native, so not Phoenician and not Indoeuropean just native

And that's because Greek language have nothing in common with Semitic languages but also have nothing in common with North European languages

That's another part of confusion you see.

Phoenecians and Egyptians aren't Semitic people even though nowdays they speak Arabic language (which was the language of Empire)

Greek obsession with Africa and Syria in Ancient times did not came by accident because Phoenecians, and Northern Egyptians from Alexandria, people of Tunis
it's all E1b1 people (Cousins of Greeks).

You may disagree with me but I've talked with people from Egypt who have confirmed to me that Hellenes from Egypt are Numerous, Alive and Well.

[DarknessWin]

Fucking hell, yet another topic taken over by wackery. Bosniensis, read a book or two on the Indo-European linguistic family, go grab Beekes's Comparative Indo-European Linguistics: An Introduction.

You're confusing the Phoenician alphabet with the Phoenician language. Those Mycenaeans in the study used Linear B to write an Indo-European language.


Prove it , Indoeuropean language . LOL
Its not exist Indoeuropean Language, its native

[Dibran]

J-M172(2x), J-Z39482, J-M319(2x), J-PF7263

These are the samples from western Crete and nearby isolated regions of lakonia, some cretans sought refugee in the nearby lakonian regions so there's a bond between the island and them

So far, no R1b or R1a sample has come to surface

The topic is regarding language and culture, which can spread absent paternal lineages. Culturally and linguistically the Greeks were indo europeans. Genetically speaking them along with most south east europeans are genetically predominantly neolithic with a splash of steppe ancestry.

Minoans and Pelasgians were culturally and linguistically different to the proto greeks who were probably far less neolithic. As the ages pass, the genetic blue print of nations are re-written due to the sequence of events. No one is a direct continuation of ancient folk, only a mix.

[ADonkeyBrain]

Prove it , Indoeuropean language . LOL
Its not exist Indoeuropean Language, its native

You cannot prove something to someone who doesn't want to believe in it, whatever you show them. Both the linguistics and the genetic results in this paper, if you ever bother to read it and understand it, speak for themselves.

[Laberia]

Greek language was formed from Ancient Phoenecian language, Phoenecians were NOT Indo European people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_language


Both Latin and Greek have nothing to do with IE languages.

Phoenician was a variety of the Canaanite languages. However, due to the very slight differences in language, and the insufficient records of the time, whether Phoenician formed a separate and united dialect, or was merely a superficially defined part of a broader language continuum, is unclear. Through their maritime trade, the Phoenicians spread the use of the alphabet to North Africa and Europe, where it was adopted by the Greeks. Later, the Etruscans adopted a modified version for their own use, which, in turn, was modified and adopted by the Romans and became the Latin alphabet

Phoenecians lived in Syria, Northern Africa.
Can you prove your theory that greek language was formed from Ancient Phoenecian language? Or still Vatican and modern scholars don`t allow you?
From what we know, ancient greeks borrowed the alphabet from Phoenecian, not the language.
P.S.
Are you really so famous that all those scholars are conspiring against you?

[DarknessWin]

That's another part of confusion you see.

Phoenecians and Egyptians aren't Semitic people even though nowdays they speak Arabic language (which was the language of Empire)

Greek obsession with Africa and Syria in Ancient times did not came by accident because Phoenecians, and Northern Egyptians from Alexandria, people of Tunis
it's all E1b1 people (Cousins of Greeks).

You may disagree with me but I've talked with people from Egypt who have confirmed to me that Hellenes from Egypt are Numerous, Alive and Well.


Today dont exist greeks there, they are all Arabs.
Also Greeks have EV13 along with J2,R1b,R1a in compination

EV13 exist only in Balkans, dont exist out of Europe

[Bosniensis]

Can you prove your theory that greek language was formed from Ancient Phoenecian language? Or still Vatican and modern scholars don`t allow you?
From what we know, ancient greeks borrowed the alphabet from Phoenecian, not the language.
P.S.
Are you really so famous that all those scholars are conspiring against you?

Well even if I was the Greatest scholar on Earth, can you imagine the effort "me" going to prove that:

1. People of Modern France are bloodthristy barbarians who slaughtered Gauls
2. People of Italy (north of Rome) are Lombards who slaughtered natives.

(Which is also documented by "Byzantine Liars")

3. People of Modern France and Germany did not know to speak, read and write all the way up to 5th century A.D, and are not even Europeans.

That is my position, my belief that is recognized by at least 7 Byzantine Emperors, 10 Byzantine Historians (They are all apparently Liars)

[DarknessWin]

You cannot prove something to someone who doesn't want to believe in it, whatever you show them. Both the linguistics and the genetic results in this paper, if you ever bother to read it and understand it, speak for themselves.

I dont believe in Indoeuropean theory and Indoeuropean languages, all that are created from the West.
Actually north europeans use Greek words in their Languages, and this is the only common between their language and our language

For example they say that indoeuropeans have almost the same word for the wolf,
In Greek wolf called Λυκαων and Λυκος (Likaon - Likos)
Have nothing in common. Why ???

[Sikeliot]

Phoenician was very close to Hebrew. Linguistically it has nothing to do with Greek.

[Bosniensis]

Today dont exist greeks there, they are all Arabs.
Also Greeks have EV13 along with J2,R1b,R1a in compination

EV13 exist only in Balkans, dont exist out of Europe

By all that is holy, I know all Arab tribes.

I know COPTS who say: All Egyptians are Ancient Egyptians and we all speak and write Arab foreign language.

Arabs are very small in numbers and they live in Arabia only.

Look, I can't go against you arguing about that... ask Egyptians if you know any.

Arabs have very well documented ALL THEIR TRIBES.. and Syrians, Egyptians belong to none of them.

[DarknessWin]

Phoenician was very close to Hebrew. Linguistically it has nothing to do with Greek.

This is true, but Greek have nothing to do with Germanic and English too

[Bosniensis]

Phoenician was very close to Hebrew. Linguistically it has nothing to do with Greek.

OF COURSE... I was saying it INFLUENCED Greek in Pra-Ancient times, that's all.

[ADonkeyBrain]

I dont believe in Indoeuropean theory and Indoeuropean languages.

Well, yes, you are clueless on the topic and very ethnocentric as well, so that's to be expected.

[Laberia]

Well even if I was the Greatest scholar on Earth, can you imagine the effort "me" going to prove that:

1. People of Modern France are bloodthristy barbarians who slaughtered Gauls
2. People of Italy (north of Rome) are Lombards who slaughtered natives.

(Which is also documented by "Byzantine Liars")

3. People of Modern France and Germany did not know to speak, read and write all the way up to 5th century A.D, and are not even Europeans.

That is my position, my belief that is recognized by at least 7 Byzantine Emperors, 10 Byzantine Historians (They are all apparently Liars)

Excuse me, what hell have all this to do with my question:

Can you prove your theory that greek language was formed from Ancient Phoenecian language?

[Sikeliot]

This is true, but Greek have nothing to do with Germanic and English too

It is clearly Indo-European though, you see this in pronouns, some numbers, and so on.

[DarknessWin]

By all that is holy, I know all Arab tribes.

I know COPTS who say: All Egyptians are Ancient Egyptians and we all speak and write Arab foreign language.

Arabs are very small in numbers and they live in Arabia only.

Look, I can't go against you arguing about that... ask Egyptians if you know any.

Arabs have very well documented ALL THEIR TRIBES.. and Syrians, Egyptians belong to none of them.

Egyptians are Berbers with Arabic language and culture , they are not Meds and few Greeks there in the past are not exist today.
Syrians are Assyrians, ancient People close to Sumerians and not arabs. Agree with you about this but again have nothing to do with Greeks.

Greeks and Romans had colonies and soldiers there but today you cant find people from Greek or Roman roots down there

[DarknessWin]

It is clearly Indo-European though, you see this in pronouns, some numbers, and so on.

How do we know that this is indoeuropean and not native European ???
Indoeuropeans must speak something close to Hindus ......

[Laberia]

I dont believe in Indoeuropean theory and Indoeuropean languages, all that are created from the West.
Actually north europeans use Greek words in their Languages, and this is the only common between their language and our language

For example they say that indoeuropeans have almost the same word for the wolf,
In Greek wolf called Λυκαων and Λυκος (Likaon - Likos)
Have nothing in common. Why ???
There are many like you in Greece? And only hellenised slavs show this symptoms or it is widespread among other ethnic groups and races in your country?

[DarknessWin]

There are many like you in Greece? And only hellenised slavs show this symptoms or it is widespread among other ethnic groups and races in your country?

You said that indoeuropeans have same words, where it is ??
How do you call Wolf in Albanian language??

[Bosniensis]

Egyptians are Berbers with Arabic language and culture , they are not Meds and few Greeks there in the past are not exist today.
Syrians are Assyrians, ancient People close to Sumerians and not arabs. Agree with you about this but again have nothing to do with Greeks.

Greeks and Romans had colonies and soldiers there but today you cant find people from Greek or Roman roots down there

Well that's true they don't speak Greek, but I am saying that before "Arabization" they were Hellenized at least and were part of Empire.

You have said previously that Serbs are Slavicized ... there is also nothing wrong with those who were Arabized.

Phoenecian peoples are Arabized, Tunisian Berbers served in Roman Empire for many years... they were all Arabized as well.

They are after all ... ALL E1b1 (not V13) but still genetically related. UNLIKE R1a and R1b who are obviosly Indo Europeans.

[ADonkeyBrain]

You said that indoeuropeans have same words, where it is ??
How do you call Wolf in Albanian language??

That's an extremely funny example you chose because Albanian exactly also has an inherited Indo-European word for wolf and no, you can't explain it as a borrowing from Greek in any way.

[Ox Helicopters]

If Indo-European means similar to Northern Europeans or Eastern Europeans, then these populations were not primarily Indo-European based on these samples. Here are the breakdown for the Minoans and Myceneans using the same method that was used for the Ashkenazi Jews in the other thread:
Minoan_I0070: 37.33% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 62.67% Mediterranean
Minoan_I0073: 32.31% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 67.69% Mediterranean
Mycenean_I9006: 34.68% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 67.58% Mediterranean, 7.73% Iberian and Basque
Mycenean_I9010: 24.2% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 61.84% Mediterranean, 13.94% Iberian and Basque
Mycenean_I9033: 23.69% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 55.49% Mediterranean, 14.26% Iberian and Basque, 6.56% Northern/Eastern European.
Mycenean_I19041: 28.66% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 56.24% Mediterranean, 14.81% Iberian and Basque, 0.29% Northern/Eastern European.

Only two of the individuals showed any Northern European/Eastern European ancestry, and it is not much.

[DarknessWin]

Well that's true they don't speak Greek, but I am saying that before "Arabization" they were Hellenized at least and were part of Empire.

You have said previously that Serbs are Slavicized ... there is also nothing wrong with those who were Arabized.

Phoenecian peoples are Arabized, Tunisian Berbers served in Roman Empire for many years... they were all Arabized as well.

They are after all ... ALL E1b1 (not V13) but still genetically related. UNLIKE R1a and R1b who are obviosly Indo Europeans.


Haplogroups mean nothing , you can found Indoeuropean from EV13 and also you can found Nigger from R1b

For example 40% of Cameroon belong to R1b

[DarknessWin]

If Indo-European means similar to Northern Europeans or Eastern Europeans, then these populations were not primarily Indo-European based on these samples. Here are the breakdown for the Minoans and Myceneans using the same method that was used for the Ashkenazi Jews in the other thread:
Minoan_I0070: 37.33% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 62.67% Mediterranean
Minoan_I0073: 32.31% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 67.69% Mediterranean
Mycenean_I9006: 34.68% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 67.58% Mediterranean, 7.73% Iberian and Basque
Mycenean_I9010: 24.2% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 61.84% Mediterranean, 13.94% Iberian and Basque
Mycenean_I9033: 23.69% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 55.49% Mediterranean, 14.26% Iberian and Basque, 6.56% Northern/Eastern European.

Only one of the individuals showed any Northern European/Eastern European ancestry, and it is not much.


So they were Native population and it prove the research.
North Europeans are not Indoeuropeans through , Vikings were native farmers from I1 haplo

[Lavrentis]

This is true, but Greek have nothing to do with Germanic and English too

Germanic languages and also English have many Greek loanwords.

[Bosniensis]

Haplogroups mean nothing , you can found Indoeuropean from EV13 and also you can found Nigger from R1b

For example 40% of Cameroon belong to R1b

40%?

Did they mix with French... how many French people are there.

I know they speak French and English as official languages but still 40% is WAY too much.

Don't forget that French/English were rapist hehhahah

Just kidding.. I taught that R1 group is strictly Indo European.

[Laberia]

You said that indoeuropeans have same words, where it is ??
How do you call Wolf in Albanian language??
Ujk. You have to read the letter j like the y in english you.

[Bosniensis]

Germanic languages and also English have many Greek loanwords.

It is said that Germanic people did not know to Read and Write up to 4th century.. so Greek loanwords are there for obvious reasons... they did not have their own.

[Ox Helicopters]

So they were Native population and it prove the research.
North Europeans are not Indoeuropeans through , Vikings were native farmers from I1 haplo

Yes it does suggest Minoans and Myceneans were mainly local, not Steppe-like people.

[DarknessWin]

Ujk. You have to read the letter j like the y in english you.

nothing in common too

[gültekin]

How do we know that this is indoeuropean and not native European ???
Indoeuropeans must speak something close to Hindus ......

Well said professor

[ADonkeyBrain]

If Indo-European means similar to Northern Europeans or Eastern Europeans, then these populations were not primarily Indo-European based on these samples. Here are the breakdown for the Minoans and Myceneans using the same method that was used for the Ashkenazi Jews in the other thread:
Minoan_I0070: 37.33% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 62.67% Mediterranean
Minoan_I0073: 32.31% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 67.69% Mediterranean
Mycenean_I9006: 34.68% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 67.58% Mediterranean, 7.73% Iberian and Basque
Mycenean_I9010: 24.2% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 61.84% Mediterranean, 13.94% Iberian and Basque
Mycenean_I9033: 23.69% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 55.49% Mediterranean, 14.26% Iberian and Basque, 6.56% Northern/Eastern European.
Mycenean_I19041: 28.66% Middle Eastern/Caucasus, 56.24% Mediterranean, 14.81% Iberian and Basque, 0.29% Northern/Eastern European.

Only two of the individuals showed any Northern European/Eastern European ancestry, and it is not much.

Calculators using modern populations as proxies or whatever don't matter much**; there are better methods that the researchers themselves utilized. Anyone who's actually interested will read the paper and see the 13% Yamnaya-like ancestry those Mycenaeans can be modelled with (and no one said they were significantly steppe in the first place), on top of the Minoan 'base', and that will be my final word on that since some people are resistant to reading the actual research.

**All of those populations already have steppe in them

[Laberia]

Germanic languages and also English have many Greek loanwords.

We are not talking here about loanwords.

[DarknessWin]

40%?

Did they mix with French... how many French people are there.

I know they speak French and English as official languages but still 40% is WAY too much.

Don't forget that French/English were rapist hehhahah

Just kidding.. I taught that R1 group is strictly Indo European.

They are 100% niggers from R1b haplogroup
actually the nigger tribe of Ouldeme have 95.5% R1b

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5c/3e/28/5c3e2809dbe3f9c2ab6120f5275c3450--african-tribes-african-art.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/71/fd/a6/71fda685d636f91826f793b94499e016--empire.jpg

[Kouros]

Mycenean vs. Seima Turbino
https://i.imgur.com/FXyRU1B.png

East Siberian Koryak vs Mycenean
https://i.imgur.com/ckIi9Sv.png

Daggers (look at the chariot design)
https://i.imgur.com/GcQbhcv.jpg

Mycenaean Chariot
https://i.imgur.com/WpparO9.jpg

Ivory Head featuring Boar Tusk Helmet
https://i.imgur.com/Y8IfVx4.jpg

Female head
https://i.imgur.com/MeRHpLd.jpg

I wonder if we'll ever see samples for seima-turbino culture.






Greek language was formed from Ancient Phoenecian language, Phoenecians were NOT Indo European people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_language

Both Latin and Greek have nothing to do with IE languages.


That's the alphabet... not the language... :picard1:


That's another part of confusion you see.

Phoenecians and Egyptians aren't Semitic people even though nowdays they speak Arabic language (which was the language of Empire)

Greek obsession with Africa and Syria in Ancient times did not came by accident because Phoenecians, and Northern Egyptians from Alexandria, people of Tunis
it's all E1b1 people (Cousins of Greeks).

You may disagree with me but I've talked with people from Egypt who have confirmed to me that Hellenes from Egypt are Numerous, Alive and Well.

That's an interesting theory but Greece had contacts with almost every country, Ethiopia, Persia, Egypt.


Today dont exist greeks there, they are all Arabs.
Also Greeks have EV13 along with J2,R1b,R1a in compination

EV13 exist only in Balkans, dont exist out of Europe

I've seen quite a lot of Lebanese people that look very Greek and I suspect it's from colonization in 800BC.

[Ox Helicopters]

Calculators using modern populations as proxies or whatever don't matter much**; there are better methods that the researchers themselves utilized. Anyone who's actually interested will read the paper and see the 13% Yamnaya-like ancestry those Mycenaeans can be modelled with (and no one said they were significantly steppe in the first place), on top of the Minoan 'base', and that will be my final word on that since some people are resistant to reading the actual research.

**All of those populations already have steppe in them

Obviously scientific papers are more important than calculators. If the paper said they were 13% Steppe, that has more weight than Eurogenes k=36 components. I would not say that calculators are unimportant though, especially for modern individuals. As an example, one Ashkenazi Jew in the other thread has about 4% Northern/Eastern European ancestry, but another has about 20% Northern/Eastern European ancestry. Both of those individuals probably got around 94-98% Ashkenazi on a DNA test, but the calculators reveal some interesting things.

[ADonkeyBrain]

Obviously scientific papers are more important than calculators. If the paper said they were 13% Steppe, that has more weight than Eurogenes k=36 components. I would not say that calculators are unimportant though, especially for modern individuals. As an example, one Ashkenazi Jew in the other thread has about 4% Northern/Eastern European ancestry, but another has about 20% Northern/Eastern European ancestry. Both of those individuals probably got around 94-98% Ashkenazi on a DNA test, but the calculators reveal some interesting things.

If that test uses a few Ashkenazim to create an 'Ashkenazi' category to compare further Ashkenazim with, like some companies seem to do, by definition other Ashkenazim will score high on that, even if they differ in some of their ancestry (few populations are extremely homogeneous after all). Those people are trying to find something different about their ancestry usually so that's helpful for them. But sure I generally agree with you, the rest of my comment went towards some other commenters.

The problem in this particular case is that many of the components you combined to create those fewer categories will already have steppe in them so it can't tell us much for this purpose.

[Lek]

They were 30 percent steppe which was derived from Indoeuropeans. Otherwise they would be Sardinian like with no steppe. I would think only Pelasgian and Minoan cultures can be truly regarded as Fully Neolithic or absent steppe.

There were also different type of farmers. Sardinians don't have all those farmer inputs wile Italians and Balkanites do.

[Ox Helicopters]

If that test uses a few Ashkenazim to create an 'Ashkenazi' category to compare further Ashkenazim with, like some companies seem to do, by definition other Ashkenazim will score high on that, even if they differ in some of their ancestry (few populations are extremely homogeneous after all). Those people are trying to find something different about their ancestry usually so that's helpful for them. But sure I generally agree with you, my comment went towards some other commenters.

The problem in this particular case is that many of the components you combined to create those fewer categories will already have steppe in them so it can't tell us much for this purpose.

I believe all of the major DNA companies have an Ashkenazi category, so for those individuals who are 95% Ashkenazi, it does not exactly tell them about their breakdown in detail. I actually did not expect Ashkenazi individuals to have such wide variance in their Northern/Eastern European ancestry, for some individuals it is 15% or more, but for others it is only about 5%. For the Minoans and Myceneans, I agree it will not help much, the Northern/Eastern European component was created just to give a general picture of "Northern" ancestry for the Ashkenazi, not for Steppes or Germanic admixture or anything like that. I think we mainly agree on these issues.

[Graecian]

Nah, they were Nordic Viking Supermen, with muhblondeblueeyes and shieet :rotfl::viking1:

[Babak]

Myceneans had steppe though

[Kamal900]

Myceneans had steppe though

And they were Greeks who in turn are Indo-Europeans themselves.

[Graecian]

Myceneans had steppe though

Modern Greeks have way higher steppe admixture.
Mycenaeans having steppe admixture can mean one of the following: A steppe group migrated south and intermingled with the native Mycenaeans or a Mycenaean group migrated north, intermingled with the native Steppe peoples and returned south with that minor admixture.

Also, having a steppe minor influence, doesnt mean that this steppe is of ''nordic'' descent. The study specifically suggests that ALL mycenaean and minoan samples had dark hair, eyes and complexion. Something that can be seen in their artworks.

[Babak]

Modern Greeks have way higher steppe admixture.
Mycenaeans having steppe admixture can mean one of the following: A steppe group migrated south and intermingled with the native Mycenaeans or a Mycenaean group migrated north, intermingled with the native Steppe peoples and returned south with that minor admixture.

Also, having a steppe minor influence, doesnt mean that this steppe is of ''nordic'' descent. The study specifically suggests that ALL mycenaean and minoan samples had dark hair, eyes and complexion. Something that can be seen in their artworks.

yes

[DarknessWin]

Well said professor

Get the fuck out of here

[DarknessWin]

And they were Greeks who in turn are Indo-Europeans themselves.

They were europeans, not indoeuropeans.

Indoeuropeans are people came from Afganistan,Kyrgystan and north India and today settle in north east europe

[Kamal900]

They were europeans, not indoeuropeans.

Indoeuropeans are people came from Afganistan,Kyrgystan and north India and today settle in north east europe

Dude, it's the other way around. Indo-Europeans came from North-Eastern Europe, and Greeks themselves are Indo-Europeans regardless on the fact that they don't have much steppe ancestry themselves, and they're mostly derived from pre-indo-European native peoples of South-Eastern Europe.

[DarknessWin]

Dude, it's the other way around. Indo-Europeans came from North-Eastern Europe, and Greeks themselves are Indo-Europeans regardless on the fact that they don't have much steppe ancestry themselves, and they're mostly derived from pre-indo-European native peoples of South-Eastern Europe.

How do you know that??
The most R1a exist in Afganistan Pashtuns ,Pakistan and North India

Indoeuropeans are not native to Europe

[Babak]

How do you know that??
The most R1a exist in Afganistan Pashtuns ,Pakistan and North India

Indoeuropeans are not native to Europe

Yea but all those groups have steppe-admix

[DarknessWin]

Yea but all those groups have steppe-admix

They have not steppe admix, they are 100% middle east

[Coolguy1]

I dont understand the point of this thread. Indo-European is a linguistic category, which Greek falls under. The Mycenaeans were the first inhabitants in Greece to speak the Greek language, making them Indo-Europeans. We dont know what language the Minoans spoke, but it seems plausible that it was a linguistic isolate, similar to Basque today. The two groups however, despite their linguistic differences, are similar in genetic composition, the difference being higher amounts of steppe ancestry in the Mycenaeans.

There really isn't much more to it.

[Fantomas]

I dont understand the point of this thread. Indo-European is a linguistic category, which Greek falls under. The Mycenaeans were the first inhabitants in Greece to speak the Greek language, making them Indo-Europeans. We dont know what language the Minoans spoke, but it seems plausible that it was a linguistic isolate, similar to Basque today. The two groups however, despite their linguistic differences, are similar in genetic composition, the difference being higher amounts of steppe ancestry in the Mycenaeans.

There really isn't much more to it.
:picard1: It's interesting, how long some people going to keep believing in absolutely groundless "steppe urheimat" indo-European theory?

I guess this phenomenon or form of mass insanity directly has to do with aggressive unalternative points of view which have been imposed with very obsessive style, like Eupedia did it for example.
https://i.imgur.com/6JEultg.jpg

[kingjohn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4JPMYHTZis

this for rethel :)

[kingjohn]

myceneans were indo european
they had significant steppe admixture

Mycenaean
Minoan_Lasithi 0.786±0.049
Sintashta 0.214±0.049
P-value 0.96574059
chisq 6.030
Full output

Mycenaean
Corded_Ware_Germany 0.210±0.043
Minoan_Lasithi 0.790±0.043
P-value 0.961238695
chisq 6.198
Full output

Mycenaean
Minoan_Lasithi 0.791±0.043
Srubnaya 0.209±0.043
P-value 0.950419642
chisq 6.558
Full output


http://eurogenes.blogspot.co.il/2017/08/steppe-admixture-in-mycenaeans.html

regards
adam

[kingjohn]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Indo-European_migrations.gif

[Rethel]

Latest DNA study show that Myceneans (...) were Neolithic non Indoeuropeans

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/facepalm.gif

[Rethel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4JPMYHTZis

this for rethel :)

I heard him some time ago, and if I remamber correctly he is some deluded (in some things) neopagan, probably even I1 OWD :laugh:

[Iloko]

Edit: sorry wrong thread

[Ülev]

Andronovo culture - does it has anything in common with "early Android"?

[DarknessWin]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/facepalm.gif

Read the study , Neolithic mens created Europe and thats a fact.
Indoeuropean myth come to an end,they were just some Pakistanis came from India

[Principe Azzurro]

Read the study , Neolithic mens created Europe and thats a fact.
Indoeuropean myth come to an end,they were just some Pakistanis came from India

Indo-Europeans came from the Pontic Steppe and secondly Neolithic does not mean created in Europe in reality it means G2a Anatolian farmers mixed with I Hunter Gatherers and J2 is neither Euro Hunter Gatherer or Anatolian farmer.

[kingjohn]

i think j2 was found in lbk austria
i will check now ......

[kingjohn]

ok i check it is
j2 is very old in europe thats for sure ..... :)

LBK Austria Kleinhadersdorf Flur Marchleiten [I5068 / grave 40 (Inventory no. NHM 25.929)] M 5500-4775 BCE 329072 J2 J2:L228:7771358C->T; J:CTS687:6953311A->T; etc. T2b23 Mathieson 2017

the place in austria :
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleinhadersdorf



back to the topic myceneans were indo-european there language and there steppe admixture which was lack in the minoans
show us that they had a northen elment you can check davidski anlaysis in the link i gave few pages ago
he knows a thing or two about genetics believe me ......

[Tauromachos]

Despite the paper and that article saying that Greeks are closely related to the Mycenaeans, I personally found their GEDmatch results to be very different from modern Greeks and didn't think they appeared particularly close. Though we do know you can model Greeks as 70% Mycenaean and 30% east-central European.

Ok,then go ahead and publish a counter paper based on your Gedmatch observations to disprove all this papers in public.
Lets see how the scientific world will appreciate your results.

[Principe Azzurro]

ok i check it is
j2 is very old in europe thats for sure ..... :)

LBK Austria Kleinhadersdorf Flur Marchleiten [I5068 / grave 40 (Inventory no. NHM 25.929)] M 5500-4775 BCE 329072 J2 J2:L228:7771358C->T; J:CTS687:6953311A->T; etc. T2b23 Mathieson 2017

the place in austria :
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleinhadersdorf



back to the topic myceneans were indo-european there language and there steppe admixture which was lack in the minoans
show us that they had a northen elment you can check davidski anlaysis in the link i gave few pages ago
he knows a thing or two about genetics believe me ......

There is also 3 in Copper Age Hungary, the thing is there is over 89 J2 subclades alone from 6000-3000 ybp, majority of J2 in Europe is post Neolithic, J2 came in several waves into Europe. The J2 in Minoans is linked to the Iran Neolithic link admixture which is seen also with J1 in the Middle East. The more ancient dna they discover from the Middle East the more J1 and J2 they will find, think of the J2 in Austria and Hungary like the R1b in Villabruna.

[Rethel]

I heard him some time ago, and if I remamber correctly he is some deluded (in some things) neopagan, probably even I1 OWD :laugh:

And again I was right - my intuition worked well, as usually.
This guy confirmed, that he is I1 OWD when he argued, that
everybody can be IE, regardless hg... interesting why... :laugh:

I can detect a wannabe on a mile...