The Sci-Fi Debate: Star Trek vs. Star Wars

[Aemma]

"Live Long and Prosper" versus "May the Force Be With You": Which popular sci-fi franchise did more to shape today's pop culture and in the end affect people's individual worldviews, be it in a positive or negative fashion?

[Maelstrom]

STARGATE :thumb001:

I'm not that much of a fan of George Lucas, and Trekkies are... well, weird. :eek:

Stargate's awesome. :cool:


EDIT: I think the Trekkies can take credit for making Sci-Fi what it is today. George Lucas just cashed in on it with Star Wars and took Sci-Fi to the mainstream.

What a tool.

[Hildolf]

I think the original 3 star wars films have had the biggest impact on sci-fi (and popular-culture)then the Treks, the 3 star wars films were made and merchandised to death, where as the trek films from that time didn't have such a big impact. As a child, me and my friends were all star wars, helped by all the toy's no doubt, star trek was hardly thought of.

I think Star Trek was more for adults and Star Wars more for kids. I mean look at Return of the Jedi the worst of the original 3. Teddy bears fighting the might of the empire and it's technology, only a kid could buy into that!

Of course Star Wars also has the greatest sci-fi baddie ever, in Darth Vader.

Today my kids love Star Wars (aided some what by the Lego star wars games), but Trek they have no interest in.

I have even seen talk of the new star trek film having a star wars influence!:eek:

[Revenant]

"Live Long and Prosper" versus "May the Force Be With You": Which popular sci-fi franchise did more to shape today's pop culture

Star Wars.


and in the end affect people's individual worldviews, be it in a positive or negative fashion?

I think Star Wars has the bigger fan base, deservedly so, but I don't think they're a worldview changer.


STARGATE :thumb001:

and Trekkies are... well, weird. :eek:
.
Stargate's awesome. :cool:


Ever visit the Gateworld forum?:D

[Lyfing]

While I can really get into some Star Trek, I think Star Wars is in a league of it's own. As some may know I'm a great fan of Joseph Campbell, and so is George Lucas..


George Lucas was the first Hollywood filmmaker to openly credit Campbell's influence. Lucas stated following the release of the first Star Wars film in 1977 that its story was shaped, in part, by ideas described in The Hero With a Thousand Faces and other works of Campbell's. The linkage between Star Wars and Campbell was further reinforced when later reprints of Campbell's book used the image of Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker on the cover.[9] Lucas discusses this influence at great length in the official biography of Joseph Campbell, Joseph Campbell: A Fire in the Mind by Stephen and Robin Larsen:

I [Lucas] came to the conclusion after American Graffiti that what's valuable for me is to set standards, not to show people the world the way it is...around the period of this realization...it came to me that there really was no modern use of mythology...The Western was possibly the last generically American fairy tale, telling us about our values. And once the Western disappeared, nothing has ever taken its place. In literature we were going off into science fiction...so that's when I started doing more strenuous research on fairy tales, folklore, and mythology, and I started reading Joe's books. Before that I hadn't read any of Joe's books...It was very eerie because in reading The Hero with a Thousand Faces I began to realize that my first draft of Star Wars was following classic motifs...so I modified my next draft [of Star Wars] according to what I'd been learning about classical motifs and made it a little bit more consistent...I went on to read 'The Masks of God' and many other books (Larsen and Larsen, 2002: 541).

It was not until after the completion of the original Star Wars trilogy in 1983, however, that Lucas met Campbell or heard any of his lectures.[10] The 1988 documentary The Power of Myth was filmed at Lucas' Skywalker Ranch. During his interviews with Bill Moyers, Campbell discusses the way in which Lucas used The Hero's Journey in the Star Wars films (IV, V, and VI) to re-invent the mythology for the contemporary viewer. Moyers and Lucas filmed an interview 12 years later in 1999 called the Mythology of Star Wars with George Lucas & Bill Moyers to further discuss the impact of Campbell's work on Lucas' films.[11] In addition, the National Air and Space Museum of the Smithsonian Institution sponsored an exhibit during the late 1990s called Star Wars: The Magic of Myth, which discussed the ways in which Campbell's work shaped the Star Wars films.[12] A companion guide of the same name was published in 1997.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell

Mythology of Star Wars with George Lucas & Bill Moyers can be watched here (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=D36B500A9E20E006)..

Later,
-Lyfing

[Red Skull]

Star Wars, definitely. And I prefer Episode I-III over IV-VI. Very unorthodox, I know. I love the politics, and the early films are very lacking in that aspect.

[lei.talk]

STARGATE :thumb001:

Stargate's awesome. :cool:
this does look like fun.
http://i44.tinypic.com/2n67q1f.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate#Books)
is this from the notorious showtime episodes (http://www.gateworld.net/the_stargate_faq.shtml#broadcast.5)?

[Loddfafner]

I grew up on Star Trek so I am partial to it. But my favorite int he genre is neither. It is Babylon5.

[Aemma]

this does look like fun.
http://i44.tinypic.com/2n67q1f.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate#Books)
is this from the notorious showtime episodes (http://www.gateworld.net/the_stargate_faq.shtml#broadcast.5)?

Uhmm lei.talk, are you sure you posted in the proper thread? :p :D

[Birka]

I grew up with Star Trek. It's like ingrained into you. I did like the Star Wars with Harrison Ford, I think he made those movies better.

[Thorum]

Now c'mon, there is no question it is the original Star Trek show. It inspired generations....

http://www.dogpile.com/clickserver/_iceUrlFlag=1?rawURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwzuy1.ask.com%2F r%3Ft%3Dp%26d%3Dsynus%26s%3Difs3%26c%3Dif3i%26l%3D dir%26o%3D0%26sv%3D0a5c4318%26ip%3D62dba6af%26id%3 DD77BB604E418B069C477206CAACB82AE%26q%3Dspock%26p% 3D1%26qs%3D121%26ac%3D24%26g%3D10f6HV5Ba69RmH%26en %3Dpi%26io%3D7%26b%3Dimg%26tp%3Dd%26ec%3D16%26pt%3 D%26ex%3D%26url%3D%26u%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.scalzi.c om%2Fspock_kirk_mccoy.jpg&0=&1=0&4=67.63.50.255&5=98.219.166.175&9=cb66cf61e52a4566bf9ef1c705c7c901&10=1&11=info.dogpl&13=search&14=239125&15=main-title&17=16&18=8&19=0&20=0&21=16&22=VRe3LNrFhpA%3D&23=0&40=X8VEDVSOLL2nSJtDxSdgIw%3D%3D&_IceUrl=truehttp://www.dogpile.com/clickserver/_iceUrlFlag=1?rawURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.citlink.net% 2F~lzdaily%2FTOSEnterprise.jpg&0=&1=0&4=67.63.50.255&5=98.219.166.175&9=d26843d8618349f6b98af1c705c7c901&10=1&11=info.dogpl&13=search&14=372380&15=main-title&17=4&18=2&19=0&20=0&21=4&22=HpQiPZmgNKE%3D&23=0&40=xrK%2BzBASZl2bUIfpHrQRoQ%3D%3D&_IceUrl=true

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a1/TOS-day_of_the_dove_klingons.png (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a1/TOS-day_of_the_dove_klingons.png)

Logical?

[lei.talk]

http://i43.tinypic.com/2m4vqxt.jpg (http://www.newsweek.com/id/195082)

[Skandi]

For me Star trek, I grew up with it on the TV I never saw Star wars until I was 22. I would agree that star wars is for children and trek for adults, I'm not sure which one had the biggest effect, but trek certainly tried to get the equality arguments across.

[Barreldriver]

I'd say I know more about Star Wars since I grew up more with it, however I'd have to say that Star Trek is becoming a preferred favorite of mine.

Number one because it's something that may realistically be achieved in the near future (and we already have CLOAKING DEVICES :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D), number two nothing beats Shatfu or Kirkate or Shatkwando, number 3 it is longer running, it had movies, multiple t.v. series, comics, multiple novels etc.... AND!!! Star Trek characters were featured along side the X-Men!!!! Hooyeah! Where's Star Wars' X-Men deal?

While Star Wars only had the movies, comics, multiple shitty novels, and a few cartoon series, pales in comparison to the success and the depth of Star Trek, Star Trek gives you more adventure for your time, there is simply more of it produced, and it's quality entertainment, high quantity plus high quality equals a deal that cannot be beat, Star Wars has some good quality but is severely lacking in the quantity department.

[Manifest Destiny]

I think the Star Wars franchise has done more to shape popular culture; mainly because it has a broader appeal. The only people who really get into Star Trek are the Trekkies themselves. I don't know anyone who doesn't like Star Wars.

[Rudy]

I always enjoyed the Star Wars movies more.
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll373/berthold_2008/star_Wars-space-battle_L-01.jpg
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll373/berthold_2008/yoda.jpg
Try not, do or do not, there is no try.

I like Star Trek for the nerd factor.
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll373/berthold_2008/bushs_nerve_pinch.jpg
nerve pinch
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll373/berthold_2008/Vulcan_death_grip.jpg
vulcan death grip

[Birka]

Who would win, Gandalf vs. Yoda?

[Barreldriver]

Gandalf, he's a god.

[Óttar]

Star Wars. Yoda, Vader and the Imperial March?!

::Bom, bom, bom, bom, ba bom, bom, ba bom, BOM, BOM, BOM, BOM!, BA BOM, BOM, BA BOM!!!:

:tongue

[chap]

Star Trek is s*** and one world government / commie propaganda :D

[Barreldriver]

Star Trek is s*** and one world government / commie propaganda :D

Star Wars isn't? :D

[Groenewolf]

I like the star wars movies. The Star Trek movies only the ones with the orginal crew in them. And I grew up with the series.


I grew up on Star Trek so I am partial to it. But my favorite int he genre is neither. It is Babylon5.

http://www.spontaneousderivation.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/alfred-bester.jpg

Compared with Star Trek a lot more dark sided politics and less utopian. Also the reason I loved the introduction of Section 14 (or what the number is again) in Star Trek Deep Space Nine.

[lei.talk]

http://i44.tinypic.com/ogxu1t.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spock)
*

[Galloglaich]

While I'm not going to slag Trek too badly, Star Wars wins hands down. It just works so much better on so many levels, especially at the mythological and aesthetic levels. You can tell that Trek is the product of a mind overly concerned with technology, empiricism, and communal Utopianism; whereas Star Wars operates at a level beyond that. The universal drama of conflict and resolution is never as black and white as often depicted in Trek. Star Wars encourages the individual to asses him/herself not only in relation to the world(s) around them, but to look internally and face what is lurking inside their own potentialities as well. The Trek universe is always so sanitary, it hardly looks lived in; Star Wars is gritty, grimy, and imperfect. I guess Star Wars also secretly appeals to the anti-establishmentarian in me as well. Trek just comes off as a bunch of boy scouts following orders. As a result, Star Wars has better 3 dimensional characters. Oh yeah, I'll take a light saber over a phaser any day.

In defense of Trek, Roddennberry's creation didn't crap all over itself like Lucas did with the last installments.

[Äike]

I like Star Wars more then Star Trek.

[lei.talk]

Khan Noonien Singh, commonly shortened to Khan, is a villain in the fictional Star Trek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek) universe. According to backstory given in the character's first appearance, the Star Trek original series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series) episode "Space Seed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Seed)", Khan is a genetically engineered superhuman tyrant who once controlled more than a quarter of the Earth during the Eugenics Wars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_Wars#Eugenics_Wars_and_World_War_III) of the 1990s. After being revived in 2267 by the crew of the Enterprise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Enterprise), Khan attempts to capture the starship, but is thwarted by James T. Kirk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_T._Kirk) and exiled on Ceti Alpha V to create a new civilization with his people. The character returns in the 1982 film Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_II:_The_Wrath_of_Khan), set fifteen years after "Space Seed", in which Khan escapes his imprisonment and sets out to seek revenge upon Kirk. The character was portrayed by Ricardo Montalbán (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Montalb%C3%A1n) in both the television episode and in the movie.

In "Space Seed" writer Carey Wilber's original plot treatment, the character of Khan was a Nordic superman named Harold Erricsen. The first draft of the script introduced the character as John Ericssen, who is revealed to be a man involved in "the First World Tyranny" called Ragnar Thorwald. The character of Thorwald was more brutal than Khan in the final version, killing guards using a phaser. By the final draft, Khan is of Indian ancestry. The character's Latino accent and superhuman appearance strongly differentiate him from most Star Trek characters. In "Space Seed", Khan is presented as having several good aspects. He is gracious, smiling, fearless, and generous. He is not threatened by the success of others, and encourages their self-esteem. He is also ambitious, desiring a challenge commensurate with his abilities. This ambition, however, is not tempered by any consideration of the rights of others. Author Paul Cantor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Cantor) asserts that Khan is a mirror image of Kirk, sharing his aggressiveness, ambition, and even his womanizing tendencies, but possessing them in far greater degree. During the episode, several of the characters express their admiration for the man, while opposing his plans and what he stands for at the same time.

- source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Noonien_Singh)
https://i.imgur.com/r19aeHu.jpg (https://youtu.be/Z_4z33kR0W8)
*

[Puddle of Mudd]

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/zz2cc0ddf9.jpg

[Cato]

http://www.jimwcoleman.com/photoblog/1986%20Jim%20star%20trek.jpg

versus

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/geekspeak/archives/stormtrooper.jpg

[ikki]

Starwreck (http://www.starwreck.com/download.php), babylon 5 and Stargate.

Starwars is a bit better... atleast they wont pretend with those trilithium crystals, replicators that for some weird reason cannot make goldpressed latinum..whatever that is... and for some even weirder reason they build ships by hand, rather than building a really large replicator spitting out some 100 ships a minute!
Metabolise a moon or two for rawmaterial...

Or atleast the romulans should be able to do this, they have miniblackholes as energysources.. perfect matter energy transformation + replicators.

Nor to forget those civilisations, tricks etc that somehow are usable only once. Terrible, terrible inconsictency!

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/6227/newportallogohs5.jpg

..damn latinspeaking holybook believers that killed thor.. :angry:

[Liffrea]

Star Whores Revenge of the Cli......ah wrong genre....:p

I grew up with Trek but after Kirk-Spock & McCoy it all went a bit gay and limp wristed for my tastes. I started to enjoy Enterprise, oh alright that Blalock Vulcan babe in a skin tight suit, then they pulled the plug on that one. The original series was more action/comic, it was less serious, which is usually good for TV sci-fi, which generally sucks in my opinion, Dr Who? What was that load of rubbish all about? Blake 7 ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I will add, though, that I agree with Loddfafner, Babylon 5 beats them all hands down, myth meets sci-fi, it's like a condensed version of Zoroastrianism or a Greek tragedy based on Paradise Lost made for TV and set in the future. Vorlons or Shadows……..neither, good choice John.:thumb001:

[Cato]

Babylon 5 also had a definite beginning, middle and end. That's what I really liked about it, especially the buildup to the Shadow/Vorlon war during the first couple of seasons. Sinclair was a regular asskicker who I liked a lot more than Sheridan.

I like Star Wars more than Star Trek, but both genres have had enjoyable movies. Star Wars has been a more enduring part of modern society, however, because it's basically a myth or fairy-tale set in outer space that appeals to many fans for many different reasons (not that Star Trek can't do this too, but I think Star Trek is hampered a bit by being set in the "real" world).

[Mrs. G]

I like both. I would have to say though that I like the Star Wars movies a little better than the Star Trek. To me they are almost on an equal basis. I do like the Star Trek Movies with the original cast though. Out of all the Star Trek movies I love the one with the whales the best. I think that is Star Trek IV.:D

[Cato]

I enjoyed the remake of Star Trek. It's hard to make a movie with the original cast when half of them are all dead. :P