Teutonic Order German GEDmatch

[Peterski]

This is Mr. Krampetz, a German from Dobrinland* and Kulmerland**. His autosomal profile can be similar to East Prussian Germans (but I have not seen any 100% East Prussian Germans so far):

Eurogenes K36:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 0.62
Central_African -
Central_Euro 10.22
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 7.39
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 25.13
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 15.48
Fennoscandian 12.50
French 4.71
Iberian 3.72
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 3.86
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 8.92
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 6.88
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 0.57
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

https://i.imgur.com/LOHaB9A.png

Here is what Krampetz gets in K15 Mixed Mode (3/4 Lithuania + 1/4 West German):

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 72.3% Lithuanian + 27.7% West_German @ 2.46

So basically Baltic (Old Prussians) and maybe Polish ancestry + German settlers.

================

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Prussians

*Dobrinland - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobrzyń_Land

**Kulmerland - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chełmno_Land

Dobrzyń Land (3) belonged to the Teutonic Order in Prussia periodically in 1329-1343, 1352-1355, 1392-1405 and 1409-1410, it was permanently lost by the Order after the battle of Grunwald:

http://slideplayer.pl/slide/836735/2/images/8/Rozw%C3%B3j+terytorialny+pa%C5%84stwa+zakonu+krzy% C5%BCackiego+w+Prusach+(1308-1409)+cd..jpg

[TEUTORIGOS]

This is Mr. Krampetz, a German from Dobrinland* and Kulmerland**. His autosomal profile can be similar to East Prussian Germans (but I have not seen any 100% East Prussian Germans so far):

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 0.62
Central_African -
Central_Euro 10.22
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 7.39
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 25.13
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 15.48
Fennoscandian 12.50
French 4.71
Iberian 3.72
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 3.86
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 8.92
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 6.88
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 0.57
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

https://i.imgur.com/LOHaB9A.png

Here is what Krampetz gets in K15 Mixed Mode (3/4 Lithuania + 1/4 West German):

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 72.3% Lithuanian + 27.7% West_German @ 2.46

So basically Baltic (Old Prussians) and maybe Polish ancestry + German settlers.

================

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Prussians

*Dobrinland - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobrzyń_Land

**Kulmerland - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chełmno_Land

Dobrzyń Land (3) belonged to the Teutonic Order in Prussia periodically in 1329-1343, 1352-1355, 1392-1405 and 1409-1410, it was permanently lost by the Order after the battle of Grunwald:

http://slideplayer.pl/slide/836735/2/images/8/Rozw%C3%B3j+terytorialny+pa%C5%84stwa+zakonu+krzy% C5%BCackiego+w+Prusach+(1308-1409)+cd..jpg

Why did you use K15 mixed mode rather than K13 ? If you don't mind me asking. I am not necessarily implying you were wrong to do so I am just curious.

My K15 says :

76.1% Orcadian + 23.9% East_German @ 2.27

I was able to trace some of my grandmother's ancestors from Alsace-Lorraine to Prussia.

[Peterski]

Why did you use K15 mixed mode rather than K13 ? If you don't mind me asking. I am not necessarily implying you were wrong to do so I am just curious.

Here are his Eurogenes K13 results (kit number M882016):

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 45
2 North_Atlantic 31.54
3 West_Med 10.42
4 East_Med 6.16
5 West_Asian 4.03
6 Amerindian 1.38
7 Oceanian 1.21
8 South_Asian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Polish 3.31
2 South_Polish 4.27
3 Ukrainian 4.83
4 Russian_Smolensk 5.78
5 Belorussian 5.79
6 Estonian_Polish 5.86
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.07
8 Southwest_Russian 6.66
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 7.51
10 Estonian 8.69
11 Lithuanian 9.79
12 Southwest_Finnish 9.81
13 Finnish 10.54
14 Croatian 10.65
15 Kargopol_Russian 10.92
16 East_Finnish 12.52
17 Hungarian 12.99
18 East_German 13.31
19 Erzya 14
20 Moldavian 14.18

And here are some of his results in Mixed Mode:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
7 71.9% Belorussian + 28.1% East_German @ 2.78
8 57.5% Lithuanian + 42.5% Hungarian @ 2.82
9 78.3% Lithuanian + 21.7% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.84
10 81.7% Estonian_Polish + 18.3% West_German @ 2.84
15 75% Belorussian + 25% Austrian @ 2.89
17 84.7% Belorussian + 15.3% French @ 2.91
18 71.9% Estonian_Polish + 28.1% East_German @ 2.92

And his message to me:


Wie gehts

​All my German ancestors were born in Poland, not Germany.
From ~1750 to 1906, when my grandfather left, none were closer to Germany than Torun (Thorn).

Russia was in control of much of the area of current day Poland and Lithuania after the partitions of the 18th century. Nearly all of my ancestors were born in, what is today called "Dobrinland"

After an uprising, around 1860, was put down - Russia declared their sector of Poland was then part of Russian. Also that only the Russian language was to be used.

My Grandfather's, Gustav Krampitz 1881 Barany [Lipno], birth document as well as all his siblings documents were written in Russian.

When he and other siblings emigrated to the U.S., their manifests stated "country of origin: Russia". They'd say they were from "Russia" on documents, until the 'cold war' of the 1950's. Then they said "Poland".

Prior to the late 1800's, I find church documents were in Latin (when listed at a Catholic church - even though they were evangelical) or in Polish, when entered at an Evangelic church.

I have only one German document, a 1794 marriage in the Torun area, of my 3xGreat grandparents written in old German. That document gave me much grief as people able to translate German were at a loss trying to decipher many of the old word meanings.

East Europe areas that today are likely being acceptable as 'German' are likely East & West Prussia. There was a period that some called the Russian Partition "South Prussia", but that wasn't widely accepted.

I have not fully understood where the German speaking and Evangelic (Lutheran) people originated. I've read that Sweden invaded Poland in the 16th century, and that many 'Hollanders' were invited into Poland to tame their swampland. But I find little Genetic connection of the Eastern Europe Germans and long-time ancestry of Germans from areas in today's Germany.

I've read that the largest 'ethnic' group in today's United States, is German. But my research shows that most Germans came from Eastern Europe, specifically Poland! They have "Russia" as their country of origin on their Ellis Island manifests.

I certainly would like to learn more of how so many Germans came to populate the East Europe lands.

I should learn more of DNA genome matching, I only know that all the "Matches" the different companies with my genome tell me of - are just 'dead ends'

[Peterski]

So his ancestors were Evangelical (not Catholic) Germans from Dobrinland + Kulmerland (Thorn).

[Dick]

Largest segment = 6.5 cM
Total of segments > 2 cM = 622.1 cM
220 matching segments

[Lucas]

This is Mr. Krampetz, a German from Dobrinland* and Kulmerland**. His autosomal profile can be similar to East Prussian Germans (but I have not seen any 100% East Prussian Germans so far):

Dobrzyń Land (3) belonged to the Teutonic Order in Prussia periodically in 1329-1343, 1352-1355, 1392-1405 and 1409-1410, it was permanently lost by the Order after the battle of Grunwald:




Russia was in control of much of the area of current day Poland and Lithuania after the partitions of the 18th century. Nearly all of my ancestors were born in, what is today called "Dobrinland"



First of all, Dobrinland was in possesion of Teutonic Order by 14, then 3, then 13 years nad then 6 years (and every period was broken by reutn to Poland, guess what and how many German settlements could establish in such short periods?). It wasn't also in Prussia after Commonwealth partition but in Russia.
So local Germans weren't for sure descendants of Teutonic Order colonists.
Most likely they from XVIII century as his record started.

[Kelmendasi]

Largest segment = 6.4 cM
Total of segments > 2 cM = 671.4 cM
238 matching segments

[brennus dux gallorum]

lol they should call themselves "venedic order"

[Loki]

Very interesting.

[Not a Cop]

This is Mr. Krampetz, a German from Dobrinland* and Kulmerland**. His autosomal profile can be similar to East Prussian Germans (but I have not seen any 100% East Prussian Germans so far):


I was thinking about it in light of my grand-fathers results and came to conclusion that while in East-Prussia there was an assimilation focus in Livland and Estland Germans generally were pretty exclusive, so they remained more Germanic than Prussians.

[Rethel]

First of all, Dobrinland was in possesion of Teutonic Order by 14, then 3, then 13 years nad then 6 years (and every period was broken by reutn to Poland, guess what and how many German settlements could establish in such short periods?). It wasn't also in Prussia after Commonwealth partition but in Russia.
So local Germans weren't for sure descendants of Teutonic Order colonists.
Most likely they from XVIII century as his record started.

Yes, and the guy's ascendency ended about 1800, when
Krzyżaks were long gone... and btw, they had no offspring...

[Peterski]

Good documentary (in Polish):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbqWxM8_rUQ

I wonder if soundtrack from this documentary is available somewhere.

[Peterski]

There were also Poles and Lithuanians who settled in East Prussia:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?213697-quot-Germans-quot-from-East-Prussia

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?213697-quot-Germans-quot-from-East-Prussia&p=4499466&viewfull=1#post4499466

Distribution of Old Prussian subclade of N1c haplogroup as of 1914:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?212757-Old-Prussian-ancestry-of-East-Prussians&p=4499310&viewfull=1#post4499310

http://i.imgur.com/liyBy1Y.png

http://i.imgur.com/2cBD3qc.jpg

Old Prussian ancestry of East Prussians (some statistical estimates):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?212757-Old-Prussian-ancestry-of-East-Prussians&p=4459328&viewfull=1#post4459328

[Slavic Italian]

Largest segment = 6.5 cM
Total of segments > 2 cM = 622.1 cM
220 matching segments

This dude is family. :)

Largest segment = 6.9 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 317.9 cM (8.864 Pct)

118 shared segments found for this comparison.

489460 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.985 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Bessarion]

This dude is family. :)

Largest segment = 6.9 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 317.9 cM (8.864 Pct)

118 shared segments found for this comparison.

489460 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.985 Pct SNPs are full identical

what is the threshold?

[Kaspias]

Def threshold

Largest segment = 8.0 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 8.0 cM (0.224 Pct)
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.4

1 shared segments found for this comparison.

[Slavic Italian]

what is the threshold?

That person has been deceased for over 100 years so 50-2.