New African Admixture in Iberia

[Cristiano viejo]

Pride in ignorance? That certainly defines you.

I am Spanish, girl. We have the duty to write/speak English incorrectly, the language of the enemy. You are a sold.


So why are you competing about who's english is better.

lol, did you get that feeling? :lol:

[Friends of Oliver Society]

Dont worry, you are forgiven :patpat:



You are really dumb. Even although bets on TA worked, tell me how the fuck you could win it since nobody could convince me you are right :033102st:

I already explained how it would be done. Now I'm sure you're a retard. You can't remember what was written in the past a few posts. There are websites where you can ask professors, lawyers, engineers, doctors, etc. questions.

Who would know better than an English professor?

You reveal yourself when you say no one can convince you I am right. This isn't an opinion on the subject. There is no grey area. It can't be argued. You argue because you're a retard and don't know any better.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Grammar, wtf. It's not grammer.

You were born here, for fuck's sake.

Well you are still snobbish. I wasnt born here. I was an immigrant from a 3rd world country.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

I am Spanish, girl. We have the duty to write/speak English incorrectly, the language of the enemy. You are a sold.



lol, did you get that feeling? :lol:

Why are you projecting your disability on the Spanish nation?

[Cristiano viejo]

You can't remember what was written in the past a few posts.

Wait... do you think I read your entire posts????????????
Be honest :D

[rein]

Enough with this argument over trivial stuff.

[Cristiano viejo]

Why are you projected your disability on the Spanish nation?

Last week new: Only France and Italy speak English worse than Spain
https://www.europapress.es/sociedad/educacion-00468/noticia-espana-sigue-cola-europa-dominio-ingles-ranking-internacional-ef-epi-20181030113004.html

You are a traitor and a shame for Spain.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

Well you are still snobbish. I wasnt born here. I was an immigrant from a 3rd world country.

You're Puerto Rican. Regardless of how I feel about keeping Puerto Rico afloat economically it's a possession of the US.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

You're Puerto Rican. Regardless of how I feel about keeping Puerto Rico afloat economically it's a possession of the US.I was born in dominican republic. A 3rd world shit hole. I was left for dead. Raised by wolves under a plantain tree.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Last week new: Only France and Italy speak English worse than Spain
https://www.europapress.es/sociedad/educacion-00468/noticia-espana-sigue-cola-europa-dominio-ingles-ranking-internacional-ef-epi-20181030113004.html

You are a traitor and a shame for Spain.

He is. But thats not important. Whats important is would he live better in Spain or the United States.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

Last week new: Only France and Italy speak English worse than Spain
https://www.europapress.es/sociedad/educacion-00468/noticia-espana-sigue-cola-europa-dominio-ingles-ranking-internacional-ef-epi-20181030113004.html

I don't understand this pride in ignorance you have and the weird assumption you have that people choose to speak a language they are learning in a fucked up way and not the more likely reason of you not being intelligent enough to be able to write in a language well enough after ten years of rambling and reading on forums.

You only have a job because of nepotism. Without it you'd be looking for work in another Euro country and not get work because of your poor English.


You are a traitor and a shame for Spain.

Spain loves me and my family. Much of those business and employment opportunities my family members have given to Spaniards comes from wealth created in the US since the 1910s. We fed starving Spaniards. What have has your family done other than raise ignorance as a value by sucking on the tit of nepotism? It's not like I haven't noticed how quiet you get over the accusation of nepotism. Nepotism is a Spanish tradition and hence why the economy always fucks up and why you're not starving or working a job that would be best suited for you.

[Neogranadino]

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OXEObMvmq4g/WC9wdXJHCBI/AAAAAAAAmqo/KqaOXLYXKK8tDKJrR4tQDcLnSwfGhy91wCLcB/s1600/keep%2Btranquilo%2Band%2Bhabla%2Bspanglish.jpg

:rotfl

[Friends of Oliver Society]

I was born in dominican republic. A 3rd world shit hole. I was left for dead. Raised by wolves under a plantain tree.

I have to ask you the same question I ask all Dominicans: are you legitimate or illegitimate? And do you wear socks?

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Enough with this argument over trivial stuff.No

[Friends of Oliver Society]

Enough with this argument over trivial stuff.

The promotion of ignorance isn't trivial. It's the root of all problems.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

I have to ask you the same question I ask all Dominicans: are you legitimate or illegitimate? And do you wear socks?I wear 2 socks on one foot but none on the other since Im only half.

[Cristiano viejo]

I don't understand this pride in ignorance


Ignorance is not knowing to speak in your native language. Your case.

Not wanting to learn a foreign language (plus the language of the historical enemy) is a right. We dont speak Albanian or Serbo-Croat, baby. We have an Alpha language, one of the most extended worldwide and we dont need to learn other languages.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Ignorance is not knowing to speak in your native language. Your case.

Not wanting to learn a foreign language (plus the language of the historical enemy) is a right. We dont speak Albanian or Serbo-Croat, baby. We have an Alpha language, one of the most extended worldwide and we dont need to learn other languages.

His native language would be gallician. I never seen him write in galician but probably because he is the only galician.

[Cristiano viejo]

His native language would be gallician. I never seen him write in galician but probably because he is the only galician.

His native languages would be Galician and Castilian. He is unable to write in any of both. All what he knows is the four words he hears his parents.
But hey, he is very proud of knowing English :rolleyes:
A total shame...

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

His native languages would be Galician and Castilian. He is unable to write in any of both. All what he knows is the four words he hears his parents.
But hey, he is very proud of knowing English :rolleyes:
A total shame...If he's gallician and not gallician with castillian ancestry than his native language is just galician. He isn't Castillian as far as I know.

[Vasconcelos]

His native language would be gallician. I never seen him write in galician but probably because he is the only galician.

Many Galicians can't write Galician because their first language is Castilian. TVG is a good example of how heavy Castilian influence in Galicia is, their accents are very butchered

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Many Galicians can't write Galician because their first language is Castilian. TVG is a good example of how heavy Castilian influence in Galicia isThan that means they can't even speak or write in their native language, gallician. They just learned a foreign language. Like me. I learned english, but Im cool with it. I can't speak quecha though and theres no way I can speak any native carribean language. Or niger congo language.

[Vasconcelos]

Than that means they can't even speak or write in their native language, gallician. They just learned a foreign language. Like me. I learned english, but Im cool with it.

The only Galician I personally know and talk to can't. She's from Coruña, her first language is Castillian

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

The only Galician I personally know and talk to can't. She's from Coruña, her first language is Castillian

That sucks for them. But gallician is like spanish alot and a bit of portuguese. But some words are spelled similar but different between the two or have a different word. I can under stand alittle bit but not so much.

[Vasconcelos]

That sucks for them. But gallician is like spanish alot and a bit of portuguese. But some words are spelled similar but different between the two or have a different word. I can under stand alittle bit but not so much.

It's the other way around :)

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

It's the other way around :)Yea they say falar like portuguese pra ect. But the way they speak is more like spanish. And end some words in eiros ect
The accent is more like spanish.

[Cristiano viejo]

That sucks for them. But gallician is like spanish alot and a bit of portuguese. But some words are spelled similar but different between the two or have a different word. I can under stand alittle bit but not so much.

It is the opposite, ignorant. Portuguese came after Galician.

And Castilian is not a foreign language in Galicia. It is spoken there since a loooot of centuries ago.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

It is the opposite, ignorant. Portuguese came after Galician.

And Castilian is not a foreign language in Galicia. It is spoken there since a loooot of centuries ago.

Naa, its pretty obvious spanish is like a simplified dumbed down version of portuguese or something. Theres even way more words in portuguese altogether I think also. Castillian is a foreign language to galicians. I could care less if they lose their language. But it is foreign.


Wether galician or portuguese came first, i dont know or dont care, im talking about their similarities and differences

[Cristiano viejo]

Naa, its pretty obvious spanish is like a simplified dumbed down version of portuguese or something. Theres even way more words in portuguese altogether I think also.
hahahaha, you wish.


Castillian is a foreign language to galicians. I could care less if they lose their language. But it is foreign.
Not true. It is like saying Castilian is foreign to Castilians because was born with Basque influences or comes from Latin :rolleyes:

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

hahahaha, you wish.


Not true. It is like saying Castilian is foreign to Castilians because was born with Basque influences or comes from Latin :rolleyes:

Ok

And I have no Idea what Idea you were trying to express to me after you were laughing.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Ok i understand what you were trying to say after re reading.

If castillian was created by basque and spoken by basque originally. Than it is a basque language.

I dont study languages or anything like that. But if spanish is really just vulgar latin and original iberian languages are lost. Than yes technically its a bit foreign because its foundation is foreign. It would essentially be vulgar latin with iberian influences.

[nightrider+]

SSA admixture in Iberia is probably the most sensitive matter on TA.

[Mark]

SSA admixture in Iberia is probably the most sensitive matter on TA.

Hard to say if it's the most. But I do think many people ignorantly have the habit of overestimating the amount of SSA among Iberians. And they use it as a means to troll and antagonize Iberian members.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

SSA admixture in Iberia is probably the most sensitive matter on TA.Only if you are iberian

[nightrider+]

Hard to say if it's the most. But I do think many people ignorantly have the habit of overestimating the amount of SSA among Iberians. And they use it as a means to troll and antagonize Iberian members.They are probably the most easily trollable group though and themselves tend to underestimate or deny this admixture.

[rein]

Hard to say if it's the most. But I do think many people ignorantly have the habit of overestimating the amount of SSA among Iberians. And they use it as a means to troll and antagonize Iberian members.

Which tests should we trust for SSA admix?

[Mark]

Which tests should we trust for SSA admix?

I think that the usual ones like 23andMe, FTDNA and Ancestry.com are all pretty good. Using one of them, along with the provided raw data through 3rd party calculators (like GEDmatch) is the way to go in general.

[rein]

I think that the usual ones like 23andMe, FTDNA and Ancestry.com are all pretty good. Using one of them, along with the provided raw data through 3rd party calculators (like GEDmatch) is the way to go in general.

Is Gedmatch more accurate?

[Mark]

They are probably the most easily trollable group though and themselves tend to underestimate or deny this admixture.

Well the percentages ultimately speak for themselves, and I don't think the averaged amount of SSA with Iberian people is high.

[Mark]

Is Gedmatch more accurate?

It's a 3rd party website. You upload your raw data file via one of the providers I listed. Those 3 seem to be the best, but there are others that might be good as well.

[Cristiano viejo]

SSA admixture in Iberia is probably the most sensitive matter on TA.

Only for you anti-Iberians. Dont invent, we dont give a fuck, specially because you are unable to show a fuckin dna test where an Iberian showes SSA :rolleyes:

[nightrider+]

Only for you anti-Iberians. Dont invent, we dont give a fuck, specially because you are unable to show a fuckin dna test where an Iberian showes SSA :rolleyes:

There are even proffesional studies that show it. They've been posted countless times. Though it's obvious it got there via North Africans and not straight from Sub-saharans.

[Cristiano viejo]

There are even proffesional studies that show it. They've been posted countless times. Though it's obvious it got there via North Africans and not straight from Sub-saharans.

I knew it... unable a show it :bored:

Oh, wait, yes, yes, you are right... professional studies like this, where EVERYBODY score SSA, Greeks included of course?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JVGdg2UsN3jYWgaoxAZu-QsAmuCaq3kT7FvqSXwUsAA/pubhtml

[nightrider+]

I knew it... unable a show it :bored:

Oh, wait, yes, yes, you are right... professional studies like this, where EVERYBODY score SSA, Greeks included of course?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JVGdg2UsN3jYWgaoxAZu-QsAmuCaq3kT7FvqSXwUsAA/pubhtml

That's not a proffesional study, and in Greece is at noise levels compared to the highest in Europe that is Spain (bar Basques).
Anyway, you asked for it:

Botigué et al. 2013:

https://i.imgur.com/LegXhLs.jpg

Hellenthal et al. 2014:

https://i.imgur.com/FOC3eAA.png

[Cristiano viejo]

That's not a proffesional study, and in Greece is at noise levels compared to the highest in Europe that is Spain (bar Basques).
I dont care "if compared" with Iberians is this or that, you still score it, so what is your point, "you are more black than me?" :rolleyes:



Anyway, you asked for it:

These are not studies where they say Iberians have SSA blood but where they say Iberians share IBD with SSA, idiot.
And again, I am seeing in these maps the SSA IBD in maaany places of Europe. Greece included again.

[Livin]

I dont care "if compared" with Iberians is this or that, you still score it, so what is your point, "you are more black than me?" :rolleyes:


These are not studies where they say Iberians have SSA blood but where they say Iberians share IBD with SSA, idiot.
And again, I am seeing in these maps the SSA IBD in maaany places of Europe. Greece included again.

SSA admixture exists in EUROPE.

81570


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_admixture_in_Europe

I dont know how accurate wiki is but i dont think they lie

[nightrider+]

I dont care "if compared" with Iberians is this or that, you still score it, so what is your point, "you are more black than me?" :rolleyes:

It's called noise level for a reason. 0.1% is not the same as 2%. 2% is like you had an ancestor 5-6 generations ago that looked like Giannis Antetokounmpo.



These are not studies where they say Iberians have SSA blood but where they say Iberians share IBD with SSA, idiot.
And again, I am seeing in these maps the SSA IBD in maaany places of Europe. Greece included again.

Same study:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3718088/figure/fig01/

You are the only idiot here. Try reading anything at some point, instead of constantly shitposting.

[nightrider+]

Southwestern European populations average between 4% and 20% of their genomes assigned to a North African ancestral cluster (SI Appendix, Fig. S3), whereas this value does not exceed 2% in southeastern European populations. Contrary to past observations, Sub-Saharan ancestry is detected at <1% in Europe, with the exception of the Canary Islands.


So, good news CV, you might be up to 20% Moroccan but your SSA is really low.

[Cristiano viejo]

It's called noise level for a reason. 0.1% is not the same as 2%. 2% is like you had an ancestor 5-6 generations ago that looked like Giannis Antetokounmpo.
Cool story.


You are the only idiot here. Try reading anything at some point, instead of constantly shitposting.
It is you who shitposts, show a single dna test where a Spaniard scores SSA blood (Canarians no, please), if it is so easy, come on.


So, good news CV, you might be up to 20% Moroccan but your SSA is really low.
There must be hard not having Moroccan blood and less SSA and yet being darker than Spaniards with all that Middle Eastern blood, eh? :icon_lol:

[nightrider+]

It is you who shitposts, show a single dna test where a Spaniard scores SSA blood (Canarians no, please), if it is so easy, come on.


I already did, Marroquí. What do you expect, 23andme or something? That's all about politically correct, inoffensive, marketing bullshit. You just include African admixture within the Iberian label and it's "gone". Even there many Iberians score North African.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

So, good news CV, you might be up to 20% Moroccan but your SSA is really low.

Those estimations have to include the Canary Islands because it is unlikely (to not say impossible) to find individuals with up to 20% North-African genomes in the peninsula. Realistically the Iberian average among all regions shouldn't surpass ~5%.

I also don't get why you would care so much about our North African genomes being Greek yourself. Greeks share how many genomic segments with the Near East? A range of 50% to 60% of their whole genomic profile? There's a reason why despite Iberians having a small percentage of North African genomes Greeks plot and are still genetically closer to North Africans than Iberians. Also more genetic proximity with the Near East than with the rest of Europe if we exclude the Balkans and South Italy, unlike Iberians.

As for Iberians being the most "trollable" ethnic group according to you, I have to disagree. One just has to take a glimpse of what goes on the other sections like the Greek one (or other Balkanites for the matter), it is a daily beefing among Macedonians, Turks, Albanians, Bulgarians and who knows what else. People from the Balkans are the most sensitive and prone to have a nerve wreck in this forum by far.

[nightrider+]

Those estimations have to include the Canary Islands because it is unlikely (to not say impossible) to find individuals with up to 20% North-African genomes in the peninsula. Realistically the Iberian average among all regions shouldn't surpass ~5%.

I'm pretty sure they do include them.



I also don't get why you would care so much about our North African genomes being Greek yourself. Greeks share how many genomic segments with the Near East? A range of 50% to 60% of their whole genomic profile? There's a reason why despite Iberians having a small percentage of North African genomes Greeks plot and are still genetically closer to North Africans than Iberians. Also more genetic proximity with the Near East than with the rest of Europe if we exclude the Balkans and South Italy, unlike Iberians.

Well, yes we do, since the Minoan years at least, as has been proven by now. I have no problem with it although your percentages are off.



As for Iberians being the most "trollable" ethnic group according to you, I have to disagree. One just has to take a glimpse of what goes on the other sections like the Greek one (or other Balkanites for the matter), it is a daily beefing among Macedonians, Turks, Albanians, Bulgarians and who knows what else.

Balkantards come close indeed, though there are many cool people that post less.

[Cristiano viejo]

I already did, Marroquí. What do you expect, 23andme or something? That's all about politically correct, inoffensive, marketing bullshit. You just include African admixture within the Iberian label and it's "gone". Even there many Iberians score North African.

No, you did not, Turkosperm. Saying exactly this:

"Southwestern European populations average between 4% and 20% of their genomes assigned to a North African ancestral cluster (SI Appendix, Fig. S3), whereas this value does not exceed 2% in southeastern European populations."

and then claiming we are 20% NA is hilarious :lol:
first because in that bag it is the Canarians, who go ap the average drastically,
and second because you are taking the higher amount, 20%, very fair, because yeah, saying only 4% would not be so far of the Eastern populations :rolleyes:

Plus your theory about Moors is stupid since there were not Moors in Eastern Europe and yet you score NA blood too.
Not a comment that "North African ancestral cluster" does not mean at all we have Moorish blood.

Still waiting a single Spanish dna test where he/she scores SSA, little kebab :thumb001:

[nightrider+]

No, you did not, Turkosperm. Saying exactly this:

"Southwestern European populations average between 4% and 20% of their genomes assigned to a North African ancestral cluster (SI Appendix, Fig. S3), whereas this value does not exceed 2% in southeastern European populations."

and then claiming we are 20% NA is hilarious :lol:
first because in that bag it is the Canarians, who go ap the average drastically,
and second because you are taking the higher amount, 20%, very fair, because yeah, saying only 4% would not be so far of the Eastern populations :rolleyes:

Plus your theory about Moors is stupid since there were not Moors in Eastern Europe and yet you score NA blood too.
Not a comment that "North African ancestral cluster" does not mean at all we have Moorish blood.

Still waiting a single Spanish dna test where he/she scores SSA, little kebab :thumb001:

It's up to 11% in Portugal and Galicia, Marroquí, and then declines to the North and East. As you can see in the IBD map, Greece is almost on the same level as Southern Germany regarding NA ancestry ("does not exceed" doesn't mean it's always up there fyi). You don't make much sense otherwise, unsuprisingly.

[Cristiano viejo]

It's up to 11% in Portugal and Galicia, Marroquí, and then declines to the North and East. As you can see in the IBD map, Greece is almost on the same level as Southern Germany regarding NA ancestry ("does not exceed" doesn't mean it's always up there fyi). You don't make much sense otherwise, unsuprisingly.

Galicia was never under Muslims, little kebab :rolleyes:
In the other hand you can enjoy your highly widespread e1b1 African haplogroup and your Middle Eastern genomas, the last a present of the 500 years of Ottoman visit.

[Arch Hades]

Who's stopping you? I'm not going to go through the process of individually assessing every single study. I gave you the relevant info with the sources, you can check it out if you don't believe it.

Spaniards found a way to get 7% SSA. Call it a Spanish Miracle, if you will.
Because you're the one making the claim. That must be a mistake by amateur wiki editors.

[TeutonicBoyars]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that in the 17th century Portugal's Sub-Saharan African population was something like 10 percent from the slave trade (with similar numbers for Spain, I believe)? To put it in perspective, that's almost around as much as the black population of the US, and concentrated into a much smaller area. Today, both Spain and Portugal have around a 1% African population. I don't think the remaining 9 per cent would have just vanished. Could this be what is contributing to the African admixture in Iberia?

[Arch Hades]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that in the 17th century Portugal's Sub-Saharan African population was something like 10 percent from the slave trade (with similar numbers for Spain, I believe)? To put it in perspective, that's almost around as much as the black population of the US, and concentrated into a much smaller area. Today, both Spain and Portugal have around a 1% African population. I don't think the remaining 9 per cent would have just vanished. Could this be what is contributing to the African admixture in Iberia?
The Portuguese do have SSA ancestry but it's not 10%, more like 3%

[TeutonicBoyars]

The Portuguese do have SSA ancestry but it's not 10%, more like 3%

Yeah, I wasn't implying the total admixture for Portugal (or Iberia in general) to be 10%, but rather that since the population of African people used to be 10% of the total population relatively recently in Iberia, and now it's dramatically lower today, would imply that there may have been some absorption of these people since there has as of yet been no proven expulsion or deportation of these African people in Iberian history, and we know that the Spanish and Portuguese were not necessarily against mixing with them as we can see examples of that happening in the New World.

[Cristiano viejo]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that in the 17th century Portugal's Sub-Saharan African population was something like 10 percent from the slave trade (with similar numbers for Spain, I believe)?
You believe wrong. I recommend to you the master piece book The Slave Trade, of the English historian Hugh Thomas.
Then you will know how much British dominated the trade and will leave wet dreams.

[Cristiano viejo]

Yeah, I wasn't implying the total admixture for Portugal (or Iberia in general) to be 10%, but rather that since the population of African people used to be 10% of the total population relatively recently in Iberia

Are you on drugs? are you insinuating that the 10% of the Iberian population was done of African slaves??

[TeutonicBoyars]

You believe wrong. I recommend to you the master piece book The Slave Trade, of the English historian Hugh Thomas.
Then you will know how much British dominated the trade and will leave wet dreams.

I know the British had the monopoly on the slave trade, but that's not really relevant to what I'm saying. Furthermore, most British slaves seem to have been deposited around their many colonies throughout the world, rather than to the motherland unlike the Iberian powers, which was the point of my post. Even more so, the Iberian powers basically pioneered exploration of Africa and perhaps arrived there as early as the late 15th century, so in accumulation throughout the centuries of colonialism they probably harboured the most slaves out of any European power.

[TeutonicBoyars]

Are you on drugs? are you insinuating that the 10% of the Iberian population was done of African slaves??

I know it was for Portugal, but I don't know if it was the same for the rest of Iberia (ie, Spain), but I imagine there were similar numbers.

Here's a reference, you can probably find more in other books, too.

https://books.google.com/books?id=0uhjBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA60&dq=10+percent+of+Portugal+population+was+African&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjri_7HisPeAhXk34MKHREoDakQ6AEIKDAA#v=on epage&q=10%20percent%20of%20Portugal%20population%20was% 20African&f=false

[Damião de Góis]

I know it was for Portugal, but I don't know if it was the same for the rest of Iberia (ie, Spain), but I imagine there were similar numbers.

Here's a reference, you can probably find more in other books, too.

https://books.google.com/books?id=0uhjBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA60&dq=10+percent+of+Portugal+population+was+African&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjri_7HisPeAhXk34MKHREoDakQ6AEIKDAA#v=on epage&q=10%20percent%20of%20Portugal%20population%20was% 20African&f=false

A rather afrocentrist source. Anyway slaves didn't cause too much impact on the portuguese population, which can be seen by looking at haplogroups.

[TeutonicBoyars]

A rather afrocentrist source. Anyway slaves didn't cause too much impact on the portuguese population, which can be seen by looking at haplogroups.

I never meant to imply they made a huge impact, it's just that I was hypothesizing that the trace sub-Saharan admixture found in Iberia might be from them. I myself never thought it could be ancient, but then again, I don't know that much about the genetics of Iberia.

Anyway, that was just one source that I just pulled up quickly, but I've seen similar quotes before. If you google around you can probably find other statistics that come to a similar conclusion

[Friends of Oliver Society]

Ignorance is not knowing to speak in your native language. Your case.

My native language is English. I was born and raised in the US. I speak Spanish just fine and if I decide to have children I certainly won't teach them Spanish. My great grandfather always preferred the US over Spain. He became a US natural citizen. He preferred being around like minded people and not people who raise ignorance to a value like yourself.


Not wanting to learn a foreign language (plus the language of the historical enemy) is a right. We dont speak Albanian or Serbo-Croat, baby. We have an Alpha language, one of the most extended worldwide and we dont need to learn other languages.

Dude, you're writing in English. You've attempted to learn English but you're too stupid and so even though you spent over 10 years on English speaking forums you can't do any better and because of your failure you promote ignorance. You have over 20,000 posts on this forum alone. Ignorance is promoted to a value when the person's pride is hurt.

I don't know what is worse: your stupidity or dishonesty. You're telling me you don't want to learn English... while telling me that in English. I wouldn't be surprised if English is the only other language you know... or sort of know, I should say.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

Many Galicians can't write Galician because their first language is Castilian. TVG is a good example of how heavy Castilian influence in Galicia is, their accents are very butchered

Every kid in Galicia takes a class in the Galician language. There is a reason why we don't have trouble understanding northern Portuguese but have difficulty understanding Portuguese south of the Minho and Tras-Os-Montes. Portuguese as is taught in school has a central Portuguese bias since that's where the capital is located. It reminds me of how standard Italian has a Florence bias.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

Only for you anti-Iberians. Dont invent, we dont give a fuck, specially because you are unable to show a fuckin dna test where an Iberian showes SSA :rolleyes:

You do give a fuck. Behavior has to match words or the person is dishonest. Once again, I'm not sure what I dislike more your stupidity or dishonesty.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

I knew it... unable a show it :bored:

Oh, wait, yes, yes, you are right... professional studies like this, where EVERYBODY score SSA, Greeks included of course?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JVGdg2UsN3jYWgaoxAZu-QsAmuCaq3kT7FvqSXwUsAA/pubhtml

Every study shows it. How dumb are you?

[Friends of Oliver Society]

How about we go back to real world consequences: lets make a $100 bet on the subject. CV, if I can provide a study where Spaniards (not Canary Islanders) show some SSA you pay up. If I can't, I'll give you a $100.

Of course, we know the bet won't be taken. Just as my other bet wasn't accepted.

If you're not willing to suffer real world consequences, then you need to accept you're wrong.

[Cristiano viejo]

My native language is English. I was born and raised in the US. I speak Spanish just fine and if I decide to have children I certainly won't teach them Spanish. My great grandfather always preferred the US over Spain. He became a US natural citizen. He preferred being around like minded people and not people who raise ignorance to a value like yourself.
hahahaha, dont make me laugh, stupid. Native language does not mean the language where you were born. That is circumstancial.
Your native language is the language of your parents/ancestors.

You say your native language is English because you dont have other excuse to discuss this topic :thumb001:

Are you English or descendant of English per chance, fuckin complexed? :thumb001:



You've attempted to learn English .
hahahaha my witch ;) not only guessing the future but the past :lol:



You do give a fuck.
Because you are deeply complexed, my dear witch :thumb001:

[Friends of Oliver Society]

hahahaha, dont make me laugh, stupid. Native language does not mean the language where you were born. That is circumstancial.
Your native language is the language of your parents/ancestors.

You say your native language is English because you dont have other excuse to discuss this topic :thumb001:

Are you English or descendant of English per chance, fuckin complexed? :thumb001:



hahahaha my witch ;) not only guessing the future but the past :lol:



Because you are deeply complexed, my dear witch :thumb001:

The one who suffers from a complex is yourself. A drop of SSA keeps you up at night. I sleep well. I'll sleep even better if you take my bets. You know you're wrong and you'd be forced to acknowledge it when the evidence is posted (so many studies, for fuck's sake) that you very well know exists is presented.

It's almost like you believe in magical thinking. If you say something isn't true it magically becomes untrue.

I would love to know what job your family was able to find for you. It's probably a state job where people look the other way when someone is clearly incompetent.

[Leto]

My native language is English. I was born and raised in the US. I speak Spanish just fine and if I decide to have children I certainly won't teach them Spanish. My great grandfather always preferred the US over Spain. He became a US natural citizen. He preferred being around like minded people and not people who raise ignorance to a value like yourself.
I thought you were born in Spain but left as a kid. If you were born in the US, then no surprise your main language is English. In fact it's good when people assimilate to the country they live in.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

I thought you were born in Spain but left as a kid. If you were born in the US, then no surprise your main language is English. In fact it's good when people assimilate to the country they live in.

Loyalty is always to where you live, neighbors, and friends. The people you grew up with first.

If a person can't do that then they should leave. No country is in need of 5th Columnists.

[Vasconcelos]

Every kid in Galicia takes a class in the Galician language. There is a reason why we don't have trouble understanding northern Portuguese but have difficulty understanding Portuguese south of the Minho and Tras-Os-Montes. Portuguese as is taught in school has a central Portuguese bias since that's where the capital is located. It reminds me of how standard Italian has a Florence bias.

Yeah, but not every kid uses it as a first language, which is why I've come across Galicians whose first language is first and foremost Castillian. Especially in large cities, where most people live. And many who do have a very distinct "Spanish" accent, only rural folk sound close to us

[Friends of Oliver Society]

Yeah, but not every kid uses it as a first language, which is why I've come across Galicians whose first language is first and foremost Castillian. Especially in large cities, where most people live. And many who do have a very distinct "Spanish" accent, only rural folk sound close to us

Most people living in the cities are one or two generations removed from rural areas and I never saw a kid speak to their rural grandparents in Castilian. It would appear uppity. I know from my mother that as a kid Castilian was the language of the middle class and wealthy and even today if you need to meet with a lawyer you tend to speak in Castillian but otherwise you hear Galician on the streets far more than Castillian.

[Vasconcelos]

even today if you need to meet with a lawyer you tend to speak in Castillian but otherwise you hear Galician on the streets far more than Castillian.

I'm not so sure, unfortunetly


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Percentage_of_Galician_speakers_%28corrected%29.PN G

[Friends of Oliver Society]

I'm not so sure, unfortunetly


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Percentage_of_Galician_speakers_%28corrected%29.PN G

That's an interesting trend in the reverse. My only thought is since what is taught as Galician in school can run contrary to the local dialect that they feel more comfortable saying Castillian as their first. The Galician taught in school is based on academic consensus. Normally in a nation one dialect is raised up to dominate the others to become the norm (my examples from earlier) but when you have academia deciding what should be the norm it's not a natural result.

[Leto]

Normally in a nation one dialect is raised up to dominate the others to become the norm (my examples from earlier) but when you have academia deciding what should be the norm it's not a natural result.
Sometimes a literary language is a mix of several dialects/influences. You do agree there has to be a standardized form of language in any serious culture. This goes back all the way to Ancient Greek, Latin, Sanskrit, Classic Arabic, Chinese, etc.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

Sometimes a literary language is a mix of several dialects/influences. You do agree there has to be a standardized form of language in any serious culture. This goes back all the way to Ancient Greek, Latin, Sanskrit, Classic Arabic, Chinese, etc.

This typical comes about naturally with whatever area is the power base. From my understanding Norman French, for example, was the most important influence on modern French. Normandy was where all the hardcore niggas were at and everyone wants to be a hardcore nigga. I'm aware the crusade against the Albengesians (spelling?) by Frenchmen from the north allowed for the complete dominance. So I should say sometimes naturally and other times with force

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

My native language is English. I was born and raised in the US. I speak Spanish just fine and if I decide to have children I certainly won't teach them Spanish. My great grandfather always preferred the US over Spain. He became a US natural citizen.





Thats how I thought when I was like 5. Its all bullshit. Your kids should know both languages. It only works to their advantage.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

Thats how I thought when I was like 5. Its all bullshit. Your kids should know both languages. It only works to their advantage.

They can take Spanish in high school.

Where's CV? Did I scare him away with my bets?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1V559Csh6U

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

They can take Spanish in high school.

Where's CV? Did I scare him away with my bets?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1V559Csh6UYou arent going to learn spanish for real in high school. You might say things like. Dame un taco por favor. But you aren't going to learn enough for conversations

[Cristiano viejo]

They can take Spanish in high school.


Yes, they can take Castilian in high school... and as Galician does not exist not even remotely in the Jewnited States of America, better forget it :rolleyes:

Such cuck, traitor and pathetic.

[Mopi The Dire Wolf]

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/37/4/1041/5670533


discuss this paper folks

[Hamilcar]

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/37/4/1041/5670533


discuss this paper folks


Interesting points of the paper :


It is specifically highlighted that the African influence on the Iberian Peninsula is, by far, more intense than in other European surrounding territories and populations.



Interestingly, the genetic influence of the Near East on Libyan and Egyptian genomes is noticeable. This pattern contrasts with that found in the Maghreb (western North Africa), where that influence is more reduced and comparable to that recorded from western Europe. The observed pattern seems to disagree with conclusions from Arauna et al. (2017), who stated that all of northern Africa is mixed with the Near East.



I already said many times that taking only IBM as north african admixture is wrong so no people like portuguese are not only 5% north african and it seems I'm right :


Within the Iberian Peninsula, the admixture proportion of North African ancestry in southern Portugal samples was 11.17 ± 1.87%, similar to the values observed in Galicia (10.30 ± 1.64%) and western Andalusia (present study, 9.28 ± 1.79%). The Canary Islands (not selected here) exhibit extreme values of the inferred Maghrebi cluster (26%) (Guillen-Guio et al. 2018). Asni Berbers carry the highest proportion of the native Maghrebi ancestral cluster (82.74 ± 8.36%) with respect to the other Moroccan samples.



The Near East appears subdivided into three groups: Druzes (in light green), Bedouins (in pale green), and Palestinians (in dark green). The genetic impact of Palestinians on the Iberian people is remarkable when compared with the other Levantine groups. According to the geographic position of Italy in the central Mediterranean, the sample analyzed here harbors a greater ancestry fraction from the Near East. In the case of North Africans, characterized by varying shades of ochre, the model permits us to distinguish Mozabite Berbers (light ochre), Tunisian Berbers (Chenini) (intermediate ochre), and Moroccan Berbers (dark ochre). The latter is the northern African component more predominant in Iberia. Sub-Saharan from western Africa and the two emerging groups (Senegalese and Nigerians) used in the present work are weakly represented in Iberia


Many north africans attacked me before for saying that eastern libyans were not maghrebis/berbers again it seems I was right :


Finns are differentiated from the rest of Europeans, and most Italians are grouped together, although some of them either group with some French groups or are near the western Iberian cluster (C29IBE3). British and CEU samples show a relative affinity with the Basque group. Near Eastern samples are completely differentiated from those from North Africans with the exceptions of most Egyptians and a few Libyans and Bedouins. Egyptians and Eastern Libyans are populations closer to the Near East than to the Maghreb. This could be mainly due in part to the barrier of the Libyan Desert.



Iberian members trying to make their NA admixture "prehistorical" while in reality most of it is recent :


Point estimates of dates spanned from ∼54 to 4 generations ago, that is, from the 7th to 19th centuries CE (see supplementary table S4, Supplementary Material online). Previous evidence also points to historic migratory events to explain admixture processes in both Iberia and North Africa. Accordingly, Moorjani et al. (2011) estimated dates of a sub-Saharan African admixing source in Portugal and Spain by ∼45 ± 5 and 55 ± 3 generations ago, respectively. Recently, Bycroft et al. (2019) dated admixture events involving European and northwest African source groups to ∼45–35 generations ago (860–1,120 CE). In addition, analyses for North African populations as recipients highlight the effects of recent historical migratory movements, and dates of admixture were mainly explained by the Islamic expansion in Iberia (7th century CE) and the trans-Atlantic/trans-Saharan slave trade (17th century CE) (Arauna et al. 2017).




According to our GW data, Iberians, including southern autochthonous people, are mainly mixing outcomes of ancient settlers in the Peninsula, represented by the Basques and northwestern Europeans, with a reduced contribution of Maghreb and Near East as well as a minor component of sub-Saharan people. The latter influence seems to be old because of the few and short DNA tracts observed on Iberian chromosomes.


Basque as a pure group is wrong :


the idea of Basques as descendant of LGM hunter-gatherers with no input from following migration has been refuted by recent aDNA studies (Günther et al. 2015; Valdiosera et al. 2018; Olalde et al. 2019). Several ancient DNA studies show that Basques are like other Iberian populations admixed with Neolithic coming from the Middle East and further received input from the Bronze Age Steppe populations. It could be that these old admixtures events (with Near Eastern and Steppes origins) have been erased by following drift. Because of the considerable increase in the North Africa component in the Maghreb after the Neolithic, most Iberian admixture events would have taken place later than that period.




The long history of extensive trans-Mediterranean gene flow between the Iberian Peninsula and northern Africa has been well established, and contrasted evidence is supported from different sources of information. An example can be found in the relatively high African genetic signatures in Iberia, especially along its western side. These signals have been mainly detected through haploid, uniparental markers. Modern mtDNA studies have revealed that a certain proportion of African lineages were introduced in the Iberian Peninsula around Early Holocenic times (Cerezo et al. 2012; Hernández et al. 2015). Reciprocally, the input of some European maternal lineages—via Iberia—into North Africa was restricted again to prehistoric times (Cherni et al. 2009; Ottoni et al. 2010; Hernández et al. 2017). Similarly, analyses of ancient mtDNA samples are also very enlightening. Recently, González-Fortes et al. (2019) reported a mitogenome of clear sub-Saharan origin (L2a1) in a 3,600-year-old sample from an Andalusian cave (Córdoba), suggesting transcontinental migrations predating the Bronze Age. Additionally, in Camino de las Yeseras, an especially interesting Late Chalcolithic central Iberian site, a female individual was recovered and genetically distinguished by harboring the L1b mtDNA lineage (Szécsényi-Nagy et al. 2017). Both maternal haplogroups are frequently found in western Africa (see Hernández et al. 2015 and data sets S3 and S4 therein). Olalde et al. (2019) reported a North African ancestry for both mtDNA (M1a1b1) and Y-chromosome (E1b1b1a) lineages in a male individual from Camino de las Yeseras.


more links with iberia than the Levant :


The shape of North Africa, with a remarkable extension in the longitudinal direction and latitudinal shortness, has greatly contributed to its distinguished interpopulation genetic diversity landscape. For example, Alexandria (Egypt) and Tunis (Tunisia) are 4,500 km apart, and within Libya, the broad desert territory between Tripoli and Benghazi, has been scarcely populated from antiquity to recent times. Likewise, Berbers in the Maghreb are genetically differentiated according to ethnic origins (i.e., Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia) indicating a prolonged isolation among them. The European component present in Berbers, at least those settled in northwestern Africa (present study), is generally higher than that observed from the Near East, signifying more intense contacts with the west than eastern Mediterranean. A portion of that European component comes from the Basque genome, indicating old relationships with Iberia.




(see supplementary table S2 and fig. S1, Supplementary Material online). Nevertheless, and as expected, the major proportion of North African genomic diversity, such as ADMIXTURE data states, would be due to the “native” Maghrebi cluster (62.5 ± 20.5%), which is far more frequent in the west than in its eastern side (see fig. 2C). In fact, the weight of the Maghrebi component is relatively low in Libya and Egypt, where high rates of Near East ancestry are observed. This interesting finding confirms the crucial role of the Libyan desert as a physical barrier to human mobility. The presence of Near Eastern ancestry, which follows an opposite distribution with a gradient toward the East, has been linked to the Arabian expansion (Hollfelder et al. 2017).


both for admixture time estimation (the deeper event recorded of all scenarios tested) and for geographic distribution, with the historical connection between SW and NW Iberia by means of “via de la Plata” Roman road. Our genomic data reflect that this road, that enabled military and commercial activities, could have acted as a vehicle for the spread of (African) genes, and that have significantly defined the contemporary internal structure within the Iberian Peninsula (see Fortes-Lima et al. 2014; Hernández et al. 2014).

[Gota_type_]

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/37/4/1041/5670533


discuss this paper folks

When people take 2 countries and just those 2 countries they are making a mistake, because the same conclussions could be taken if instead of Spain they took Italy or France. That NorthAfricans are part-caucasoid and that 5000 years ago they probably looked proto-European?? Sure. But, nothing else. And they have taken 142 examples in deep Andalucía, not in all of Spain. And they probably chose the individuals for their dark appareance (I am sure they did not take blond-blue eyed or normal brunette Spaniards because they might have different conclussions to what they researched wanted to prove (and thus, their funding for their research could be thrown to waste).

It is like when some research said that Spain was 20% Jewish and 10% NorthAfrican because these were the frequencies of the E and J halopgroups. If they took ANY other European country, even Germany (Hitler was E), the conclussions would be similar: totally stupid.

[Gota_type_]

There are ZERO evidencies (historical records, material culture, archaelogy) the pressence of "berebers" in Spain, either in recent times or in Old Ancient times. ZERO. Not even graves of bereberes. If they had influenced like a 5-7% of our DNA (supposely), why there are not graves or evidencies of them living here at all?? ZERO EVIDENCIES. And even here in the NW, Galicia, which we have the supposedly highest bereber/NorthAfrican when it is the most far away región from the berebers, why is this?? Were they stupid and wanted to go far away and not close to their previous lands....or THE QUESTION IS THAT IT IS NOT BEREBERS BLOOD but ANCIENT PROTO-EUROPEAN SHARED BLOOD since berebers have lots more European halopgroups and autosomal DNA than the reversal.

All evidencies points that this is a shared ancestry, and NOT ADMIXTURE. Just some retardeds classified certain DNA segments as "north-african/berebers" and we Spaniards have to put up with it despite having absolutely ZERO remains of berebers living here ever.

It is us galicians the ones that score the highest ""bereber"" (I score 0% by the way, at least in 23andme) because we are the less mixed Spanish population (we are in the corner and very Little inmigration from other parts of Spain came here, and this is why we retain better the old DNA of the Peninsula, so it is PROTO-EUROPEAN. Berebers are more European than the reversal, and this is backed by DNA studies.

Conclussion: it is not bereber/northafrican what we Spaniards have. It is just proto-Med or something like that, and NOT ADMIXTURE AT ALL.

[dududud]

Interesting points of the paper :








I already said many times that taking only IBM as north african admixture is wrong so no people like portuguese are not only 5% north african and it seems I'm right :







Many north africans attacked me before for saying that eastern libyans were not maghrebis/berbers again it seems I was right :





Iberian members trying to make their NA admixture "prehistorical" while in reality most of it is recent :








Basque as a pure group is wrong :








more links with iberia than the Levant :


Ce n'est pas que les Basques sont "purs", mais ils manquent l'apport extra-européen qu'ont les Espagnols et les Portugais. Mais ils ne sont pas purement préindo-européens, puisqu'ils ont un apport indo-européen aussi.

Quant à l'apport "near eastern" : tous les Européens ont cet apport. Mon père, du Nord de la France, a 44% d'apport néolithique.

Les Basques sont stricto sensu EEF + beaucoup de WHG + indo-européen, sans les autres apports (ibero machin, séfarade, etc). C'est en ce sens qu'on dit qu'ils sont "purs", mais pas dans le sens d'être purement indo-européen ou purement eef, etc.

[Hamilcar]

Ce n'est pas que les Basques sont "purs", mais ils manquent l'apport extra-européen qu'ont les Espagnols et les Portugais. Mais ils ne sont pas purement préindo-européens, puisqu'ils ont un apport indo-européen aussi.

Quant à l'apport "near eastern" : tous les Européens ont cet apport. Mon père, du Nord de la France, a 44% d'apport néolithique.

Les Basques sont stricto sensu EEF + beaucoup de WHG + indo-européen, sans les autres apports (ibero machin, séfarade, etc). C'est en ce sens qu'on dit qu'ils sont "purs", mais pas dans le sens d'être purement indo-européen ou purement eef, etc.

J'avais déjà bien compris cela. C'était juste histoire de briser les mensonges de certains ici qui essayent de faire passer les basques pour des pré-indo européens préservés de toute influence steppique

[Damião de Góis]

I already said many times that taking only IBM as north african admixture is wrong so no people like portuguese are not only 5% north african and it seems I'm right :


It depends on the model used. I have noticed that 10-11% number is obtained when using something like medieval guanches and iron age basques. Since there is no western iron age sample, you get a poor match with 10-11 guanche. It's a real pitty sampling was poor in the Olalde paper.

[Hamilcar]

It depends on the model used. I have noticed that 10-11% number is obtained when using something like medieval guanches and iron age basques. Since there is no western iron age sample, you get a poor match with 10-11 guanche. It's a real pitty sampling was poor in the Olalde paper.

What makes you think they used guanche samples here ? Also you can verify it yourself : NAs are only 30% IBM, you score around 5% so do the math and you'll reach the same conclusions as the study. It can't be just a coincidence.

[Damião de Góis]

What makes you think they used guanche samples here ? Also you can verify it yourself : NAs are only 30% IBM, you score around 5% so do the math and you'll reach the same conclusions as the study. It can't be just a coincidence.

Because i've seen that model tried more than once.

[Hamilcar]

Because i've seen that model tried more than once.

Thanks for proving you didn't read the paper.

Portuguese do have around 10-15% North african ancestry.

[Leto]

So basically it says ~10% North African and barely 2% Sub-Saharan, i.e. nothing new and spectacular for me not having detailed interest in that particular region.
The supplementary data has some good tables by the way.

[Damião de Góis]

Thanks for proving you didn't read the paper.

Portuguese do have around 10-15% North african ancestry.

Ok, if that helps you sleep better at night... :noidea:

[Hamilcar]

Ok, if that helps you sleep better at night... :noidea:

Keep lying to yourself. In my case I'm good with my ancestors.

[Cernunnos]

Jesus, I hate the term "Iberia" and "Iberians".

[Ethel]

I already said many times that taking only IBM as north african admixture is wrong so no people like portuguese are not only 5% north african and it seems I'm right

Who says that? NA in Iberia reaches its peak in Portuguese with 11% and this has been known and reproduced here for years.

[Hamilcar]

Who says that? NA in Iberia reaches its peak in Portuguese with 11% and this has been known and reproduced here for years.

I know but it seems most iberian members here disagree with this or can't accept it. Members like rocinante,bras, damiao, gota_type, etc all seem to not accept it

[Damião de Góis]

Who says that? NA in Iberia reaches its peak in Portuguese with 11% and this has been known and reproduced here for years.


I know but it seems most iberian members here disagree with this or can't accept it. Members like rocinante,bras, damiao, gota_type, etc all seem to not accept it

I'm saying the model influences the results. I've seen diferent results with diferent models so i'm not sure what the actual number is. 11 is not the number i'm used to seeing.

But, next time i'm running any of these models, every time i don't get at least 11% NA i'll PM either one of you to get your insight. :rolleyes:

[Ethel]

I know but it seems most iberian members here disagree with this or can't accept it. Members like rocinante,bras, damiao, gota_type, etc all seem to not accept it

gota_type is nothing but cristiano viejo in steroids
rocinante did agree with me that IBM doesn't equals North African ancestry
never seen any portuguese member here denying they have ~10% NA

[mitalit]

I've only read the quotes, to understand it well, the paper says that the inhabitants shown in Andalusia have between 9.28 and 1.79% NA?

[Hamilcar]

I'm saying the model influences the results. I've seen diferent results with diferent models so i'm not sure what the actual number is. 11 is not the number i'm used to seeing.

But, next time i'm running any of these models, every time i don't get at least 11% NA i'll PM either one of you to get your insight. :rolleyes:

why are you comparing some amateur models to studies ? Show me any studies that says you have 5% ...go ahead good luck to find it.


10-15% NA ancestry with some SSA admixture, Perfecto :thumb001:

[Hamilcar]

never seen any portuguese member here denying they have ~10% NA

well I invite you to pay more attention we already have an example here

[Hamilcar]

I've only read the quotes, to understand it well, the paper says that the inhabitants shown in Andalusia have between 9.28 and 1.79% NA?

no 9.28 ± 1.79% means an average of 9.28% with variation of 1.79% (and that's for western andalusia)

[Damião de Góis]

why are you comparing some amateur models to studies ? Show me any studies that says you have 5% ...go ahead good luck to find it.


10-15% NA ancestry with some SSA admixture, Perfecto :thumb001:

Models are the same as you see here like plots are also the same thing. It's samples that might be different.

[Ethel]

why are you comparing some amateur models to studies ? Show me any studies that says you have 5% ...go ahead good luck to find it.


10-15% NA ancestry with some SSA admixture, Perfecto :thumb001:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/765042614784360459/783110109316120606/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/765042614784360459/783110596714692608/unknown.png

Average: 10.4%
Nothing out of the ordinary we're used to see here, not only on G25 but almost all calculators.
You resurrected this thread to cause turmoil upon something that everyone's already tired of seeing and stating, you're obsessed with them and have an urge to provoke Iberian members whenever you have a chance

[Damião de Góis]

I removed every spanish, portuguese and basque samples and ran my results.

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.6316% / 0.01631591
44.6 Orcadian
23.0 Sardinian
20.6 Italian_Lombardy
6.2 Mozabite
1.8 Samaritan
1.6 Esan_Nigeria
1.4 Makrani
0.6 Papuan
0.2 Khomani_San

So where's my 15% Mozabite?

Also where do models such as this fail? And where is the supposed remaining 10% North Africa going?

https://i.imgur.com/152VYDk.png

[Area51Defender]

From this website: http://mylittlehistorybloginenglish.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-harem-and-jassa-in-al-andalus.html


In Al-Andalus existed well nourished and famous as that of Madinat Al-Zahra harems, at the time of the Umayyad Caliphate which had 6,300 women (including slaves), or the harem of the King of Seville which provided over 800 women when he went into exile. The prestige of a sovereign andalusí also measured by the number of women who could keep his harem and this often included women who had belonged to his predecessors in power.

What were Visigothic men doing all this time when their women were being creampied by Moors for 800 years? I thought the Visigoths were strong and brave, were they not?

[Rafael Passoni]

"Sicily found significally higher levels of North African male ancestry in Spain, Sicily and Portugal (7.7%, 7.1% and 7.5% respectively) than in Italy (1.7%)." I checked this article, the author of Wikipedia misswrote these percentages. Just an observation.
Correct: Sicily 7.5, Spain 7.7 and Portugal 7.1.
Free full article link:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2947089/

[Hamilcar]

Average: 10.4%
Nothing out of the ordinary we're used to see here, not only on G25 but almost all calculators.
You resurrected this thread to cause turmoil upon something that everyone's already tired of seeing and stating, you're obsessed with them and have an urge to provoke Iberian members whenever you have a chance


Cringe.

I don't see why you're arguing with me about this 11% while it's not me who denied it. Moreover I didn't bump that thread I was simply answering Mopi who bumped it :


https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/37/4/1041/5670533


discuss this paper folks


You often try to portray me as some kind of obsessed complexed user but you fail. That's a behaviour more commonly found among brazilians and none of the informations posted here concerns you so better put your nose elsewhere instead of playing the smart ass.

[Hamilcar]

I removed every spanish, portuguese and basque samples and ran my results.

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.6316% / 0.01631591
44.6 Orcadian
23.0 Sardinian
20.6 Italian_Lombardy
6.2 Mozabite
1.8 Samaritan
1.6 Esan_Nigeria
1.4 Makrani
0.6 Papuan
0.2 Khomani_San

So where's my 15% Mozabite?

Also where do models such as this fail? And where is the supposed remaining 10% North Africa going?



You don't really understand what you're doing nor what I said previously like I told you before instead of embarassing yourself like this stick to History. Studies are clear about portuguese and galicians having the highest amount of NA admixture in the iberian peninsula around 10-15%, that you have a problem accepting it because of your deep inferiority complexes towards NW euros is none of our problem. I stick to facts I don't care about your feelings regarding north african admixture.

Go make some threads about dutch looking portugueses, genetics isn't for you.

[Damião de Góis]

You don't really understand what you're doing nor what I said previously like I told you before instead of embarassing yourself like this stick to History. Studies are clear about portuguese and galicians having the highest amount of NA admixture in the iberian peninsula around 10-15%, that you have a problem accepting it because of your deep inferiority complexes towards NW euros is none of our problem. I stick to facts I don't care about your feelings regarding north african admixture.

Go make some threads about dutch looking portugueses, genetics isn't for you.

So you didn't address any of my questions, gave me a thumbs down and whined a little more.

Not willing to make an effort and reply? I made simple questions and was curious to what you or anyone else had to say.

[Hamilcar]

So you didn't address any of my questions, gave me a thumbs down and whined a little more.

Not willing to make an effort and reply? I made simple questions and was curious to what you or anyone else had to say.

I already explained you but it seems you don't understand what I meant or what the study implies.

If I follow your logic I'm only 30% north african ...please reread the quotes I posted and my answers to you.

[Area51Defender]

So you didn't address any of my questions, gave me a thumbs down and whined a little more.

Not willing to make an effort and reply? I made simple questions and was curious to what you or anyone else had to say.

Butthurt Moor rapebaby why can't you accept your African heritage?

[Damião de Góis]

I already explained you but it seems you don't understand what I meant or what the study implies.

If I follow your logic I'm only 30% north african ...please reread the quotes I posted and my answers to you.

It means you score other things like EEF and some steppe. How would you complete the model i posted then (the one on the picture)?

[Hamilcar]

It means you score other things like EEF and some steppe. How would you complete the model i posted then (the one on the picture)?

If my wife is portuguese (let's imagine she has no IBM admixture) and therefore my children are mixed. Do you think my children will only be 15% north african ? No around half of their ancestry came from a fully north african ancestor which is me their father.

It's the same with you : why do you think all the studies about your people talk about 10-15% of NA ancestry while your model show 5-6% IBM ancestry ? Because the total contribution of north africans to your dna is around 10-15% and that's what the study says. So I don't see why you're even arguing about this.

Like many afrocentrists or anthrotards you tend to select only what fits your narrative and you don't see any problem at contradicting peer-reviewed papers all of this because of your disdain for admixture you view as "parasite" and that question your europeanness in comparison to other europeans (at least based on your racist beliefs). The same way some west asians are triggered by their south asian admixture or north africans being triggered by their ssa admixture.

[Damião de Góis]

If my wife is portuguese (let's imagine she has no IBM admixture) and therefore my children are mixed. Do you think my children will only be 15% north african ? No around half of their ancestry came from a fully north african ancestor which is me their father.

It's the same with you : why do you think all the studies about your people talk about 10-15% of NA ancestry while your model show 5-6% IBM ancestry ? Because the total contribution of north africans to your dna is around 10-15% and that's what the study says. So I don't see why you're even arguing about this.

Like many afrocentrists or anthrotards you tend to select only what fits your narrative and you don't see any problem at contradicting peer-reviewed papers all of this because of your disdain for admixture you view as "parasite" and that question your europeanness in comparison to other europeans (at least based on your racist beliefs). The same way some west asians are triggered by their south asian admixture or north africans being triggered by their ssa admixture.

Ok, so you have no answer to my questions. That's alright.

[Rafael Passoni]

I read some of these reference articles and the most North African ancestry is Caucasoid people (Phoenician and Carthaginian, and they still as they were) and this SSA is controversy - just a hypothesis. I think a direct route from e.g. Central Africa to Gibraltar didn't occur. Very interesting thread.

According to Wikipedia: "Haplogroup U6 was dated to between 31,000 and 43,000 years ago by Behar et al. (2012). Basal U6* was found in a Romanian specimen of ancient DNA (Peștera Muierilor) dated to 35,000 years ago.[49] Hervella et al. (2016) take this find as evidence for Paleolithic back-migration of Homo sapiens from Eurasia into Africa."(...) "U6 is thought to have entered North Africa from the Near East around 30,000 years ago. It has been found among Iberomaurusian specimens dating from the Epipaleolithic at the Taforalt prehistoric site. In spite of the highest diversity of Iberian U6, Maca-Meyer argues for a Near East origin of this clade based on the highest diversity of subclade U6a in that region, where it would have arrived from West Asia, with the Iberian incidence primarily representing migration from the Maghreb and not persistence of a European root population."

[Hamilcar]

Ok, so you have no answer to my questions. That's alright.

try to make your brain works for a few seconds :


Within the Iberian Peninsula, the admixture proportion of North African ancestry in southern Portugal samples was 11.17 ± 1.87%, similar to the values observed in Galicia (10.30 ± 1.64%) and western Andalusia (present study, 9.28 ± 1.79%). The Canary Islands (not selected here) exhibit extreme values of the inferred Maghrebi cluster (26%) (Guillen-Guio et al. 2018). Asni Berbers carry the highest proportion of the native Maghrebi ancestral cluster (82.74 ± 8.36%) with respect to the other Moroccan samples.


now let's try with g25 :

Target: Portuguese
Distance: 0.7018% / 0.00701770
69.2 Iberian
11.4 English
10.4 Berber
7.0 Italian
1.0 Arab
0.8 Georgian
0.2 Levantine


you can try it with any accurate model you want and it will always show the same result for NA admixture

[Ethel]

You often try to portray me as some kind of obsessed complexed user but you fail. That's a behaviour more commonly found among brazilians and none of the informations posted here concerns you so better put your nose elsewhere instead of playing the smart ass.

No one portrays you as an iberian-obsessed bitch more than yourself. Your obsessive-compulsive disorder keeps jumping between having fair skin and using iberians as a last resource to feel closer to euros.

[Hamilcar]

No one portrays you as an iberian-obsessed bitch more than yourself. Your obsessive-compulsive disorder keeps jumping between having fair skin and using iberians as a last resource to feel closer to euros.

sorry that's maybe a common brazilian behaviour but that does not concerns me ...you have my whole post and thread history feel free to post some examples of this obsession :)

[Area51Defender]

sorry that's maybe a common brazilian behaviour but that does not concerns me ...you have my whole post and thread history feel free to post some examples of this obsession :)

You like darkening Iberians but you also like lightening Coastal North Moroccans is that right???

[Rafael Passoni]

This abstract is interesting too:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330565318_A_western_route_of_prehistoric_human_mig ration_from_Africa_into_the_Iberian_Peninsula

[Luso]

Wowwww NEWS ALERT Iberians have some North African???? WOw, I wouldn't have guessed it... thanks for informing me! We totally aren't geographically close North Africa at all and didn't have an extensive Moorish rule period in our past so how is this possible??? *sarcasm* :rolleyes:

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f162acd032e822419d8107389ccc0d95

/thread closed/

[Dr_Maul]

Is it me or does it seem to be a lot more in Portugal than in Spain? Why?

[Luso]

Is it me or does it seem to be a lot more in Portugal than in Spain? Why?

Yes, you are correct... On average Portuguese and Galicians get the highest portion of North African DNA estimated to be around 5-10%? But I will say it is interesting indeed, b/c Portugal got rid of the moors 300 years before Spain did.

[Dr_Maul]

b/c Portugal got rid of the moors 300 years before Spain did.

Well possibly, because of that reason, there was a more easy going treatment. I guess what I mean is that the Spaniards were likely a lot more harsh to the local/mixed Moor population having to deal with them for an extra 300 years.

[Luso]

Well possibly, because of that reason, there was a more easy going treatment. I guess what I mean is that the Spaniards were likely a lot more harsh to the local/mixed Moor population having to deal with them for an extra 300 years.

Yeah, very good point. Portugal was definitely less strict with the moor population after the years of fighting. And it seems we gave in and at a point let them mix into the gene pool, which can explain the tendency for more varieties of haplogroups occurring, besides the r1b majority, at a greater rate than in Spain. But I'm not too well versed in it all, I'd have to ask my dad who knows the history much clearer than I do.

[Area51Defender]

Yeah, very good point. Portugal was definitely less strict with the moor population after the years of fighting. And it seems we gave in and at a point let them mix into the gene pool, which can explain the tendency for more varieties of haplogroups occurring, besides the r1b majority, at a greater rate than in Spain. But I'm not too well versed in it all, I'd have to ask my dad who knows the history much clearer than I do.

Iberia follows an East-West gradient, not a North-South one, the West is swarthier than the East. Portugal/Galicia being the darkest and Basque Country/Navarre/Aragon/Catalonia being the lightest.

[Luso]

Iberia follows an East-West gradient, not a North-South one, the West is swarthier than the East. Portugal/Galicia being the darkest and Basque Country/Navarre/Aragon/Catalonia being the lightest.

Yeah, Ik this gradient pattern. In theory, the Muslim Berbers (or a mixture of both native iberian and moor) moved upwards to Galicia to settle in bulks. It is also thought, for this reason, that Galicians appear more similar to southern Portuguese than their neighbors Asturians and Asturians appear more alike to Andalusians genetically.

[Jana]

Iberia follows an East-West gradient, not a North-South one, the West is swarthier than the East. Portugal/Galicia being the darkest and Basque Country/Navarre/Aragon/Catalonia being the lightest.

Galiacia is one of lightest regions in Spain. West Iberia has both elevated levels of north African and Germanic admixture compared to the rest of peninsula.

[Jana]

Butthurt Moor rapebaby why can't you accept your African heritage?

Another subhuman from Italic roots. Please ban this retard.

[Luso]

Another subhuman from Italic roots. Please ban this retard.

That's the place where some nationalistic Italian guy posted a pic of me without my permission :rolleyes:

[Ruggery]

The high North African genetic contribution in Portugal and Galicia always seemed curious to me, taking into account that the Moors spent less time there than in the rest of the peninsula, I would expect Andalusia to be the region with the most genetic contribution but it really is not. So .

[Rafael Passoni]

That is horrible! I think he envies you. Send a request to administrator to delete the post with your pic. It's very boring. :(

[Luso]

That is horrible! I think he envies you. Make a request to administrator erase the post with your pic. It's very boring. :(

Oh it was dw it was funny to me tho.

[Jana]

The high North African genetic contribution in Portugal and Galicia always seemed curious to me, taking into account that the Moors spent less time there than in the rest of the peninsula, I would expect Andalusia to be the region with the most genetic contribution but it really is not. So .

Andalusia was repopulated from northern Spain. Still it's one of swarthiest regions, definitely darker than Galicia. Because repopulation is never 100%, pockets of Moorish Era locals remained. Plus Gitanos etc.
Extremadura may be darkest if I was about to guess.

[Luso]

Andalusia was repopulated from northern Spain. Still it's one of swarthiest regions, definitely darker than Galicia. Because repopulation is never 100%, pockets of Moorish Era locals remained. Plus Gitanos etc.
Extremadura may be darkest if I was about to guess.

Yeah, same applies to southern Portugal as well. It is really hot in these regions tho, with an incredibly hot sun compared to the north so that could be why?

[Jana]

Yeah, same applies to southern Portugal as well. It is really hot in these regions tho, with an incredibly hot sun compared to the north so that could be why?

Ofc, locals in southern Iberia have permanent tan! If they lived in cooler region they would be lighter.

[Peter Parker]

Iberians were probably darker (with more NA admixture) in the 1500s than they are now.
Maybe the Spanish conquistadors brought a lot of these older phenotypes to Latin America where they still survive even in some Mestizos/Castizos to some extent.

There are a lot of blond Portuguese and Spanish people nowadays but 'Nordic'-looking Latin Americans of Iberian descent (I am not talking about Latin Americans of German or Scandinavian descent either) seem to be extremely rare.

A lot of Hispanics physically resemble the Moors - a lot more than Iberians themselves who are basically just normal Southern European-looking.

[Cristiano viejo]

Iberia follows an East-West gradient, not a North-South one, the West is swarthier than the East. Portugal/Galicia being the darkest and Basque Country/Navarre/Aragon/Catalonia being the lightest.

Retarded Italo Middle Eastern, Galicia is the lighest Spanish region.

[Peter Parker]

The darkest Iberians are Canary Islanders.

[Damião de Góis]

you can try it with any accurate model you want and it will always show the same result for NA admixture

I already tried the simplest model of all. I removed every spanish, portuguese and basque sample from G25 and ran it and got 6% north african. But you never addressed that and gave me thumbs down instead.


Well possibly, because of that reason, there was a more easy going treatment. I guess what I mean is that the Spaniards were likely a lot more harsh to the local/mixed Moor population having to deal with them for an extra 300 years.


Yeah, very good point. Portugal was definitely less strict with the moor population after the years of fighting. And it seems we gave in and at a point let them mix into the gene pool, which can explain the tendency for more varieties of haplogroups occurring, besides the r1b majority, at a greater rate than in Spain. But I'm not too well versed in it all, I'd have to ask my dad who knows the history much clearer than I do.

No that doesn't make any sense. It was war like in any other place, in fact there are almost no moorish buildings left, like an Alhambra palace. Also when this was over we attacked Morocco:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Portuguese_Morocco.PNG


Yeah, Ik this gradient pattern. In theory, the Muslim Berbers (or a mixture of both native iberian and moor) moved upwards to Galicia to settle in bulks. It is also thought, for this reason, that Galicians appear more similar to southern Portuguese than their neighbors Asturians and Asturians appear more alike to Andalusians genetically.

Again, that doesn't make any sense (i don't know what they are teaching you in America..). Galicia was never occupied and was retaken very quickly. It's very difficult to explain their NA score with moorish conquest, occupation or a resettlement like you are suggesting. Just like it's difficult to explain the E-M81 enclave in the place where christian reconquest started:

https://i.imgur.com/SY9TB3h.gif


Yeah, same applies to southern Portugal as well. It is really hot in these regions tho, with an incredibly hot sun compared to the north so that could be why?


Ofc, locals in southern Iberia have permanent tan! If they lived in cooler region they would be lighter.

The people i posted in this thread are from inland southern Portugal (hottest place in the country) and don't have a permanent tan (i guess some have, but it's not the rule). I don't have one either and have roots in the region too.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?323818-Portuguese-bullfighters

I don't think complexion or the ability to tan is related to weather. I also don't find Azoreans especially pale in comparison even if the islands are a lot more cloudy than here.

[Area51Defender]

Retarded Italo Middle Eastern, Galicia is the lighest Spanish region.

Retarded Moor rapebaby, you are darker than my shit.

[Cristiano viejo]

Retarded Moor rapebaby, you are darker than my shit.

Oh Italo Armenoid boy, you wish be as light as me, that is sure :thumb001:

[Gota_type_]

From this website: http://mylittlehistorybloginenglish.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-harem-and-jassa-in-al-andalus.html



What were Visigothic men doing all this time when their women were being creampied by Moors for 800 years? I thought the Visigoths were strong and brave, were they not?

Those are exagerated, like the number of soldiers in wars.

And the results of those mixing with goths is that the Emirs of AlAndalus were 50-75% Spanish by blood even in their name were typical arabic. Alhakén II was blond and blue eyed and 75% Spanish. And many others the same. It is funny seen the "Reyes Nazaries de la Alhambra" painting (all of them look not only uber-White but also germanic-nordic) and then seeing quadrons northafricans (20% black on average and totally non-White) claiming "my ancestors". No, the ones that ruled AlAndalus were White people.

And the offspring of those goths enslaved were also muslims, so they were kicked out, unless a raid from the north came and liberated the women.


Yes, you are correct... On average Portuguese and Galicians get the highest portion of North African DNA estimated to be around 5-10%? But I will say it is interesting indeed, b/c Portugal got rid of the moors 300 years before Spain did.

This makes the "northafrican" label as FALSE since there were ZERO muslims-northafricans in Galicia ever. So, it is not "northafrican", it is just ancient proto-european that some berebers also have it, but it is labeled as "northafrican" because some retarded wanted us to feel being mixed, which is false. People mistake having a 5-10% of natives that look uber-med and non-White with having ""north-african"" blood, which it does not make sense at all from any point of view: archaeological, historical, material culture, etc. Zero northafricans have been here in NW. Zero means zero.

And 300 years more only in Granada. 90% of Spain was liberated already in 1230-40. We kept Granada as a vassall state and the muslims had to pay taxes, that is the only reason we maintained it. Your country is also 4 times smaller, so it is easiest to kick foreigners.



Iberia follows an East-West gradient, not a North-South one, the West is swarthier than the East. Portugal/Galicia being the darkest and Basque Country/Navarre/Aragon/Catalonia being the lightest.

Being "darkest" only means LESS INDOEUROPEAN blood and more "native" European, or old dark DNA. It has Little or nothing to do with admixture with foreign people from Africa. And being "darkest" is just a mínimum difference. 80% of the people in the West look exactly as light as the people in the East.



Yeah, Ik this gradient pattern. In theory, the Muslim Berbers (or a mixture of both native iberian and moor) moved upwards to Galicia to settle in bulks. It is also thought, for this reason, that Galicians appear more similar to southern Portuguese than their neighbors Asturians and Asturians appear more alike to Andalusians genetically.

Absolutely FALSE. There were zero moros here. They had a garrison in Astorga and just that, that they used it to attack Galicia for 20 years, but that is all. And if you are talking about moriscos, ZERO were resettled in Galicia. Most of them went to Castilla and Extremadura, and were ALL kicked out in 1609.


The high North African genetic contribution in Portugal and Galicia always seemed curious to me, taking into account that the Moors spent less time there than in the rest of the peninsula, I would expect Andalusia to be the region with the most genetic contribution but it really is not. So .

It is NOT "NorthAfrican". Mongolian people get "Finnish" DNA (1-2%), when it is the opposite in reality: Finnish people usually get 1-5% East Asian, but some retarded labeled some DNA segments as "Finnish" and if a mongolian takes a DNA test, it will appear as "Finnish". When were the people of Finlandia in Mongolia?? Never. When were the northafricans in Galicia? Never. It is a matter of labels. And IN ANY CASE, if we gave this falacy as valid, it would still be caucasoid blood since northafricans 5000 years ago were basically White. Today they are mongrels because of islam enslaving blacks in the last 1000 years.

[Leto]

The supplementary data has some good tables by the way.
Here they are
https://i.ibb.co/G9kXFGH/African-European.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Wsrbm2d/Ancestral-clusters.jpg

[Hamilcar]

I already tried the simplest model of all. I removed every spanish, portuguese and basque sample from G25 and ran it and got 6% north african. But you never addressed that and gave me thumbs down instead.

Yes thanks for proving your model isn't accurate. Basque don't even have NA admixture lmao

[Damião de Góis]

Yes thanks for proving your model isn't accurate. Basque don't even have NA admixture lmao

So why do you think they make a difference? I removed them to try a model without any iberian source so that my 15% North African would show.

Here it is with and without Basques:

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.6304% / 0.01630427
44.6 Orcadian
23.0 Sardinian
20.6 Italian_Lombardy
6.2 Mozabite
1.8 Samaritan
1.6 Esan_Nigeria
1.4 Makrani
0.6 Papuan
0.2 Ju_hoan_North

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.3523% / 0.01352292
49.6 Basque_French
20.2 Italian_Lombardy
12.2 Shetlandic
7.2 Iraqi_Jew
2.6 Mozabite
2.4 German_East
1.8 Esan_Nigeria
1.2 Iranian_Mazandarani
1.0 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.8 Fulani
0.6 Papuan
0.4 Moroccan_South

Where is my 15% North African?

[Hamilcar]

So why do you think they make a difference? I removed them to try a model without any iberian source so that my 15% North African would show.

Here it is with and without Basques:

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.6304% / 0.01630427
44.6 Orcadian
23.0 Sardinian
20.6 Italian_Lombardy
6.2 Mozabite
1.8 Samaritan
1.6 Esan_Nigeria
1.4 Makrani
0.6 Papuan
0.2 Ju_hoan_North

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.3523% / 0.01352292
49.6 Basque_French
20.2 Italian_Lombardy
12.2 Shetlandic
7.2 Iraqi_Jew
2.6 Mozabite
2.4 German_East
1.8 Esan_Nigeria
1.2 Iranian_Mazandarani
1.0 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.8 Fulani
0.6 Papuan
0.4 Moroccan_South

Where is my 15% North African?


Use basque spanish instead and stop using tons of very different proxies, only a few of them would be enough. On the model with old components you scored 5% IBM so it confirms what the study says. Thanks.

[Synapsid]

Yes, you are correct... On average Portuguese and Galicians get the highest portion of North African DNA estimated to be around 5-10%? But I will say it is interesting indeed, b/c Portugal got rid of the moors 300 years before Spain did.

It has to do with Pre-Islamic Berbers migrating to Western Iberia that piles up with more recent Medieval admixture. Western Iberia was more geography accessible and a more green place than Eastern Iberia, which was harsher in Geography so that's where Pre Islamic Berbers settled mixed with locals since there was no Religious barriers back then (although that why strangely the W. Islamic Taifa fell faster than the eastern ones in Velencia)

[Synapsid]

Well possibly, because of that reason, there was a more easy going treatment. I guess what I mean is that the Spaniards were likely a lot more harsh to the local/mixed Moor population having to deal with them for an extra 300 years.

That's not the reason. Berbers settled in Western part of Iberia more then the East during Roman times. Hence why Gallicians have higher NA than Castillians despite being under Islamic for far less time

[Synapsid]

The high North African genetic contribution in Portugal and Galicia always seemed curious to me, taking into account that the Moors spent less time there than in the rest of the peninsula, I would expect Andalusia to be the region with the most genetic contribution but it really is not. So .

Look at the post i made above. People tend forget that NA and Iberians were in same Empires long before Arab invasions. Its not all Islamic era stuff

[Damião de Góis]

Use basque spanish instead and stop using tons of very different proxies, only a few of them would be enough. On the model with old components you scored 5% IBM so it confirms what the study says. Thanks.

Basque spanish was part of the spreadsheet, so if the calculator didn't choose it's not my fault. If i remove Basque_French, Basque_Spanish appears and i get this:

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.5875% / 0.01587481
28.4 Italian_Lombardy
27.2 Basque_Spanish
19.6 Orcadian
6.4 Sardinian
5.6 German_East
4.0 Mozabite
3.8 Iraqi_Jew
1.6 Gambian
1.2 Makrani
1.2 Moroccan_South
0.6 Papuan
0.4 Esan_Nigeria


Again i don't get 15% North African. So you are saying i need to tweak it a lot to get the desired 15% North African? I thought those results were solid and appear in every run without iberians. :rolleyes:

[Ethel]

.:

Try this model (Scaled):

French+Basque:French_Auvergne,0.1254161,0.1446566, 0.0474194,0.0129918,0.0434726,0.0039974,-0.0003394,0.0025128,0.0154076,0.0221721,-0.0024659,0.0073546,-0.0139686,-0.0096693,0.0082989,0.001483,-0.0007871,0.0014968,0.0030726,-0.000213,0.0018579,0.003737,-0.0022823,0.0018163,-8.87e-05
French+Basque:Basque_French,0.128051,0.1520246,0.0 551727,0.0128231,0.0564104,0.0025099,-0.00141,0.0033229,0.0305968,0.0412036,-0.0092724,0.0103408,-0.0209761,-0.0140237,0.0132192,-0.0019359,-0.0119173,0.0030278,-0.0007165,-0.0044144,0.010157,0.0024855,-0.0086397,-0.0091698,7.18e-05
French+Basque:French_Occitanie,0.1270391,0.1448823 ,0.048879,0.0179086,0.0433756,0.0034164,0.0005222, 0.0038909,0.0148564,0.0235894,-0.0032883,0.0065816,-0.0150436,-0.0094578,0.010737,0.0025671,-0.0037088,0.0024846,0.0014247,4.52e-05,0.0036706,0.0024456,-0.0025505,0.0017673,0.0004224
Italian_Calabria,0.1028203,0.1462363,-0.011942,-0.0466197,0.0125147,-0.0117133,-0.0024283,-0.0031537,0.0044993,0.0215037,0.000433,0.0027977,-0.0055003,-0.000963,-0.009636,-0.0052593,0.0068237,0.0009713,0.0051537,-0.003043,-0.0026203,-0.0023907,-0.0001643,0.0037753,0.00012
Mozabite,-0.0649782,0.135551,-0.0032793,-0.0717622,0.0260249,-0.0328364,-0.0260656,0.0108257,0.0617306,0.0303463,0.0065097,-0.006366,0.021795,-0.0165685,0.0163159,-0.016176,-0.0027097,-0.0219282,-0.0435571,0.0082757,-0.0146263,-0.0367947,0.0246817,-0.0042277,0.0056594
Swedish,0.1339317,0.1282953,0.0720659,0.0563097,0. 0409013,0.0214348,0.0070612,0.0092964,0.0049085,-0.0065951,-0.0048022,0.001513,-0.004651,-0.0038337,0.0150003,0.0040156,-0.0072332,0.0020029,0.0034837,0.0048772,0.0070768, 0.0022787,0.0011269,0.0106612,-0.0009751

Don't expect to score more than 11% NA, the most extreme case I've seen had 12% of it. The moor clown is obviously inflating NA in Iberians, 15% NA for a Portuguese is just too much and would be a rare isolated case.

[Hamilcar]

Basque spanish was part of the spreadsheet, so if the calculator didn't choose it's not my fault. If i remove Basque_French, Basque_Spanish appears and i get this:

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.5875% / 0.01587481
28.4 Italian_Lombardy
27.2 Basque_Spanish
19.6 Orcadian
6.4 Sardinian
5.6 German_East
4.0 Mozabite
3.8 Iraqi_Jew
1.6 Gambian
1.2 Makrani
1.2 Moroccan_South
0.6 Papuan
0.4 Esan_Nigeria


Again i don't get 15% North African. So you are saying i need to tweak it a lot to get the desired 15% North African? I thought those results were solid and appear in every run without iberians. :rolleyes:

that's why i told you to use less proxies ...you don't even understand what you're doing.


You an accurate model not something that will overfit the NA admixture with all these unrelated pops ....you even got makrani and papuan lmao you can't even use it properly.

Here try this model :


Levantine,0.0853674,0.1486734,-0.0573978,-0.0925072,-0.0096018,-0.0350286,-0.002209,-0.0081688,0.016321,0.008237,0.0091586,-0.0099212,0.0204854,0.0118632,-0.0055372,0.0021214,-0.011239,0.0010134,0.0021116,-0.003652,-0.0005242,0.003116,0.000567,-0.0029402,0.0046462
Arab,0.0542556,0.1360809,-0.0682589,-0.1211978,-0.0037272,-0.056305,-0.0130301,-0.0088204,0.0628798,-0.002045,0.0167981,-0.0325711,0.0657411,0.0058413,0.0080528,0.0270778,-0.0210643,0.0028717,-0.0019133,0.0248312,0.0137259,0.0160887,-0.0087369,0.0027848,-0.0052289
Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666
Iberian,0.1219803,0.1465747,0.0426775,0.002584,0.0 449827,-0.0008367,-0.0008617,0.0043845,0.025395,0.034321,-0.0023003,0.0096163,-0.0147918,-0.0124548,0.0070348,0.000442,-0.0014342,0.00038,-0.0044413,-0.0016048,0.0037017,-0.0006183,-0.0028348,-0.0064467,0.0018163
Italian,0.1256322,0.1482672,0.0303111,-0.0061572,0.0342755,-0.0004532,0.0020416,0.0020047,0.0100346,0.0230415,-0.0022328,0.0054889,-0.0105363,-0.0038189,-0.0026974,0.000953,0.0034796,0.0019557,0.0028518,-0.0042286,-0.0009982,0.0028594,-0.0001309,0.001318,-0.0021479
Iranian,0.0885141,0.0956389,-0.0638664,-0.024092,-0.0460899,0.0007546,0.0044097,-0.0052124,-0.0285852,-0.0148255,0.0007832,-0.0010579,0.0047396,-0.00255,0.0045506,0.0118005,-0.0054146,0.0015202,0.0019668,-0.008938,-0.0004036,-0.0033604,0.0012905,-0.0044371,0.0040645
Georgian,0.108132,0.1332374,-0.0619988,-0.0459952,-0.0383456,-0.0089246,0.0113746,-0.0056768,-0.0639748,-0.0175312,-0.0004546,0.0130384,-0.0251532,0.0072388,0.001873,-0.0238662,0.0070668,-0.0044088,-0.0095026,0.0153074,0.0115046,0.0013602,2.46e-05,-0.0070852,-0.0017964
German,0.1302626,0.1373792,0.0579811,0.0387068,0.0 400035,0.0156461,0.0040665,0.0057865,0.003526,0.00 188,-0.0044133,0.0023732,-0.0053706,-0.0025417,0.0085125,0.0032913,-0.0032728,0.0016631,0.0033669,0.0017191,0.00314,0. 002005,7.18e-05,0.0083052,0.0002774
English,0.1318551,0.137043,0.0617883,0.044013,0.03 92299,0.0167481,0.0049845,0.0057448,0.0052637,0.00 56781,-0.0047691,0.0056161,-0.0125892,-0.0103507,0.0206153,0.0035521,-0.0103689,0.004094,0.003685,0.0029619,0.0059369,0. 0034036,-0.0032693,0.0137938,3.16e-05
Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Dinka,-0.577083,0.0507765,-0.0003773,-0.0075098,-0.0053855,-0.0016735,-0.0176848,0.0204222,0.081145,-0.0969495,-0.02107,0.022742,-0.0383172,-0.0011698,0.0101452,-0.021347,0.0186125,-0.0094382,0.0241968,-0.0241678,0.002402,0.003308,0.001479,0.0009038,0.0 096995


With the good models you're suddenly scared :rolleyes:

[Damião de Góis]

Try this model (Scaled):

French+Basque:French_Auvergne,0.1254161,0.1446566, 0.0474194,0.0129918,0.0434726,0.0039974,-0.0003394,0.0025128,0.0154076,0.0221721,-0.0024659,0.0073546,-0.0139686,-0.0096693,0.0082989,0.001483,-0.0007871,0.0014968,0.0030726,-0.000213,0.0018579,0.003737,-0.0022823,0.0018163,-8.87e-05
French+Basque:Basque_French,0.128051,0.1520246,0.0 551727,0.0128231,0.0564104,0.0025099,-0.00141,0.0033229,0.0305968,0.0412036,-0.0092724,0.0103408,-0.0209761,-0.0140237,0.0132192,-0.0019359,-0.0119173,0.0030278,-0.0007165,-0.0044144,0.010157,0.0024855,-0.0086397,-0.0091698,7.18e-05
French+Basque:French_Occitanie,0.1270391,0.1448823 ,0.048879,0.0179086,0.0433756,0.0034164,0.0005222, 0.0038909,0.0148564,0.0235894,-0.0032883,0.0065816,-0.0150436,-0.0094578,0.010737,0.0025671,-0.0037088,0.0024846,0.0014247,4.52e-05,0.0036706,0.0024456,-0.0025505,0.0017673,0.0004224
Italian_Calabria,0.1028203,0.1462363,-0.011942,-0.0466197,0.0125147,-0.0117133,-0.0024283,-0.0031537,0.0044993,0.0215037,0.000433,0.0027977,-0.0055003,-0.000963,-0.009636,-0.0052593,0.0068237,0.0009713,0.0051537,-0.003043,-0.0026203,-0.0023907,-0.0001643,0.0037753,0.00012
Mozabite,-0.0649782,0.135551,-0.0032793,-0.0717622,0.0260249,-0.0328364,-0.0260656,0.0108257,0.0617306,0.0303463,0.0065097,-0.006366,0.021795,-0.0165685,0.0163159,-0.016176,-0.0027097,-0.0219282,-0.0435571,0.0082757,-0.0146263,-0.0367947,0.0246817,-0.0042277,0.0056594
Swedish,0.1339317,0.1282953,0.0720659,0.0563097,0. 0409013,0.0214348,0.0070612,0.0092964,0.0049085,-0.0065951,-0.0048022,0.001513,-0.004651,-0.0038337,0.0150003,0.0040156,-0.0072332,0.0020029,0.0034837,0.0048772,0.0070768, 0.0022787,0.0011269,0.0106612,-0.0009751

Don't expect to score more than 11% NA, the most extreme case I've seen had 12% of it. The moor clown is obviously inflating NA in Iberians, 15% NA for a Portuguese is just too much and would be a rare isolated case.

Like i was saying i only get the desired result if you tweak the model enough. Distance also increases compared to what i was trying which was simply to remove iberians and basques from the spreadsheet.

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.9849% / 0.01984860
66.0 French+Basque
14.6 Italian_Calabria
11.4 Mozabite
8.0 Swedish

[Damião de Góis]

that's why i told you to use less proxies ...you don't even understand what you're doing.


You an accurate model not something that will overfit the NA admixture with all these unrelated pops ....you even got makrani and papuan lmao you can't even use it properly.

Here try this model :


Levantine,0.0853674,0.1486734,-0.0573978,-0.0925072,-0.0096018,-0.0350286,-0.002209,-0.0081688,0.016321,0.008237,0.0091586,-0.0099212,0.0204854,0.0118632,-0.0055372,0.0021214,-0.011239,0.0010134,0.0021116,-0.003652,-0.0005242,0.003116,0.000567,-0.0029402,0.0046462
Arab,0.0542556,0.1360809,-0.0682589,-0.1211978,-0.0037272,-0.056305,-0.0130301,-0.0088204,0.0628798,-0.002045,0.0167981,-0.0325711,0.0657411,0.0058413,0.0080528,0.0270778,-0.0210643,0.0028717,-0.0019133,0.0248312,0.0137259,0.0160887,-0.0087369,0.0027848,-0.0052289
Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666
Iberian,0.1219803,0.1465747,0.0426775,0.002584,0.0 449827,-0.0008367,-0.0008617,0.0043845,0.025395,0.034321,-0.0023003,0.0096163,-0.0147918,-0.0124548,0.0070348,0.000442,-0.0014342,0.00038,-0.0044413,-0.0016048,0.0037017,-0.0006183,-0.0028348,-0.0064467,0.0018163
Italian,0.1256322,0.1482672,0.0303111,-0.0061572,0.0342755,-0.0004532,0.0020416,0.0020047,0.0100346,0.0230415,-0.0022328,0.0054889,-0.0105363,-0.0038189,-0.0026974,0.000953,0.0034796,0.0019557,0.0028518,-0.0042286,-0.0009982,0.0028594,-0.0001309,0.001318,-0.0021479
Iranian,0.0885141,0.0956389,-0.0638664,-0.024092,-0.0460899,0.0007546,0.0044097,-0.0052124,-0.0285852,-0.0148255,0.0007832,-0.0010579,0.0047396,-0.00255,0.0045506,0.0118005,-0.0054146,0.0015202,0.0019668,-0.008938,-0.0004036,-0.0033604,0.0012905,-0.0044371,0.0040645
Georgian,0.108132,0.1332374,-0.0619988,-0.0459952,-0.0383456,-0.0089246,0.0113746,-0.0056768,-0.0639748,-0.0175312,-0.0004546,0.0130384,-0.0251532,0.0072388,0.001873,-0.0238662,0.0070668,-0.0044088,-0.0095026,0.0153074,0.0115046,0.0013602,2.46e-05,-0.0070852,-0.0017964
German,0.1302626,0.1373792,0.0579811,0.0387068,0.0 400035,0.0156461,0.0040665,0.0057865,0.003526,0.00 188,-0.0044133,0.0023732,-0.0053706,-0.0025417,0.0085125,0.0032913,-0.0032728,0.0016631,0.0033669,0.0017191,0.00314,0. 002005,7.18e-05,0.0083052,0.0002774
English,0.1318551,0.137043,0.0617883,0.044013,0.03 92299,0.0167481,0.0049845,0.0057448,0.0052637,0.00 56781,-0.0047691,0.0056161,-0.0125892,-0.0103507,0.0206153,0.0035521,-0.0103689,0.004094,0.003685,0.0029619,0.0059369,0. 0034036,-0.0032693,0.0137938,3.16e-05
Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Dinka,-0.577083,0.0507765,-0.0003773,-0.0075098,-0.0053855,-0.0016735,-0.0176848,0.0204222,0.081145,-0.0969495,-0.02107,0.022742,-0.0383172,-0.0011698,0.0101452,-0.021347,0.0186125,-0.0094382,0.0241968,-0.0241678,0.002402,0.003308,0.001479,0.0009038,0.0 096995


With the good models you're suddenly scared :rolleyes:

No, i just like to simplify things.

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.9424% / 0.01942407
69.6 Iberian
18.6 English
7.6 Levantine
2.8 Yoruba
0.8 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.6 Georgian

Where is my 15% North African?

[Ethel]

Like i was saying i only get the desired result if you tweak the model enough. Distance also increases compared to what i was trying which was simply to remove iberians and basques from the spreadsheet.

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.9849% / 0.01984860
66.0 French+Basque
14.6 Italian_Calabria
11.4 Mozabite
8.0 Swedish

Yes, the distances are higher compared to what you were trying, because we're using the smallest possible number of populations here to simulate a western Iberian with everything that he's expected to have de facto, and to avoid overfitting.
With your model you scored several false-positives that are actually shattered pieces of your real components, for example 2% SSA which is obviously false in your case, it comes from your NA part which contains Iberomaurusian which in turn contains a basal admixture that is read as SSA by G25.

It happens a lot to us Latin Americans, when we have real SSA, NA will often appear inflated, because it absorbs our true SSA and adds to it other components of Iberian origin (EEF, Natufian etc.) that also exist in North Africans and materializes itself in NA.
In my case, if I don't make the model concise enough to avoid overfitting, my real Amerindian overflows in false Finnish due to ANE connection.

Here, far from being a perfect model, but it's more complete than the previous one and should isolate your % NA better:

Iberia_BA:Iberia_Central_BA,0.1239044,0.1505886,0. 059639,0.0003691,0.0686281,-0.0074901,-0.0052371,-0.0001319,0.0395609,0.0550354,-0.0029926,0.01291,-0.0243167,-0.019621,0.0066116,0.0103233,0.0156089,-0.0004163,-0.0021549,0.0007146,0.0115154,-0.0001766,-0.0088561,-0.020261,0.0028397
Iberia_BA:Iberia_North_BA,0.1242568,0.154699,0.055 5627,0.004522,0.0679613,-0.002417,-0.0025068,0.0038458,0.0341553,0.0550352,-0.0043032,0.0096663,-0.0209117,-0.0154367,0.0064918,0.0047733,0.0091053,0.0049197,-0.0011732,-0.002522,0.0091712,0.0056468,-0.0093462,-0.0190388,0.003752
Iberia_BA:Iberia_Northeast_BA,0.1263438,0.1502982, 0.0608579,0.0031896,0.066897,-0.0059264,-0.0008225,-0.0004904,0.038834,0.055058,-0.0028212,0.0090484,-0.025644,-0.0184072,0.0007975,0.0107232,0.0113922,0.0003484, 0.0009271,0.0039394,0.0108089,0.0023186,-0.0131569,-0.0163879,0.0003441
Iberia_BA:Iberia_Southeast_BA,0.1269128,0.1571532, 0.055625,-0.0073482,0.0667815,-0.006763,-0.0067562,0.0053652,0.048063,0.0672453,-0.0018675,0.0116522,-0.0258298,-0.0177187,0.005225,0.0056685,0.0052478,-0.0016785,0.0006285,0.0003122,0.0087348,0.001082,-0.0048685,-0.0211775,-0.0010475
Iberia_BA:Iberia_Southwest_BA,0.1200835,0.1497905, 0.050534,-0.0134045,0.064166,-0.0133865,-0.0019975,0.0047305,0.046018,0.062416,-0.003735,0.012214,-0.022894,-0.013212,0.0059715,-0.0007955,-0.0037815,-0.003864,0.001571,0.003064,0.0146615,0.0007415,-0.00758,-0.0265095,0.002215
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:DA111,0.124067,0.151314,0.063 356,0.026163,0.0437,0.005857,0.001175,0.002308,0.0 20861,0.02442,-0.012342,0.00015,-0.01665,-0.003165,0.014658,-0.009546,-0.018254,0.003801,0.005908,0.001626,0.009858,0.006 059,-0.004437,-0.005904,-0.005269
SWE_BA,0.119514,0.142174,0.073916,0.062016,0.03108 3,0.011156,0.012691,0.015692,0.011658,-0.003645,-0.001624,-0.006744,-0.007879,-0.009634,0.014794,0.024794,0.018775,-0.006334,-0.01081,-0.00075,-0.001497,0.002844,0.006532,-0.011568,0.000359
Canary_Islands_Guanche,-0.0393828,0.1314096,-0.0023384,-0.0687344,0.0337292,-0.0363672,-0.0299874,0.008261,0.0708878,0.0305428,0.0075674,-0.0059948,0.0182554,-0.0176982,0.0232082,-0.0130468,0.0031814,-0.019206,-0.044321,0.010405,-0.0134762,-0.0377142,0.0232692,-0.0011806,0.0046224
ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141

[Area51Defender]

Those are exagerated, like the number of soldiers in wars.

And the results of those mixing with goths is that the Emirs of AlAndalus were 50-75% Spanish by blood even in their name were typical arabic. Alhakén II was blond and blue eyed and 75% Spanish. And many others the same. It is funny seen the "Reyes Nazaries de la Alhambra" painting (all of them look not only uber-White but also germanic-nordic) and then seeing quadrons northafricans (20% black on average and totally non-White) claiming "my ancestors". No, the ones that ruled AlAndalus were White people.

And the offspring of those goths enslaved were also muslims, so they were kicked out, unless a raid from the north came and liberated the women.

My question was the Visigoths were obviously taller and stronger than the Moors (they came from the shores of the Baltic Sea) so why didn't they have a problem with their women being enslaved?

[gixajo]

Try this model (Scaled):

French+Basque:French_Auvergne,0.1254161,0.1446566, 0.0474194,0.0129918,0.0434726,0.0039974,-0.0003394,0.0025128,0.0154076,0.0221721,-0.0024659,0.0073546,-0.0139686,-0.0096693,0.0082989,0.001483,-0.0007871,0.0014968,0.0030726,-0.000213,0.0018579,0.003737,-0.0022823,0.0018163,-8.87e-05
French+Basque:Basque_French,0.128051,0.1520246,0.0 551727,0.0128231,0.0564104,0.0025099,-0.00141,0.0033229,0.0305968,0.0412036,-0.0092724,0.0103408,-0.0209761,-0.0140237,0.0132192,-0.0019359,-0.0119173,0.0030278,-0.0007165,-0.0044144,0.010157,0.0024855,-0.0086397,-0.0091698,7.18e-05
French+Basque:French_Occitanie,0.1270391,0.1448823 ,0.048879,0.0179086,0.0433756,0.0034164,0.0005222, 0.0038909,0.0148564,0.0235894,-0.0032883,0.0065816,-0.0150436,-0.0094578,0.010737,0.0025671,-0.0037088,0.0024846,0.0014247,4.52e-05,0.0036706,0.0024456,-0.0025505,0.0017673,0.0004224
Italian_Calabria,0.1028203,0.1462363,-0.011942,-0.0466197,0.0125147,-0.0117133,-0.0024283,-0.0031537,0.0044993,0.0215037,0.000433,0.0027977,-0.0055003,-0.000963,-0.009636,-0.0052593,0.0068237,0.0009713,0.0051537,-0.003043,-0.0026203,-0.0023907,-0.0001643,0.0037753,0.00012
Mozabite,-0.0649782,0.135551,-0.0032793,-0.0717622,0.0260249,-0.0328364,-0.0260656,0.0108257,0.0617306,0.0303463,0.0065097,-0.006366,0.021795,-0.0165685,0.0163159,-0.016176,-0.0027097,-0.0219282,-0.0435571,0.0082757,-0.0146263,-0.0367947,0.0246817,-0.0042277,0.0056594
Swedish,0.1339317,0.1282953,0.0720659,0.0563097,0. 0409013,0.0214348,0.0070612,0.0092964,0.0049085,-0.0065951,-0.0048022,0.001513,-0.004651,-0.0038337,0.0150003,0.0040156,-0.0072332,0.0020029,0.0034837,0.0048772,0.0070768, 0.0022787,0.0011269,0.0106612,-0.0009751

.


Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.7237% / 0.01723750
86.8 French+Basque
9.4 Italian_Calabria
3.8 Mozabite

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 2.0723% / 0.02072337
73.0 French+Basque
19.4 Italian_Calabria
7.6 Mozabite

Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 1.7446% / 0.01744629
82.0 French+Basque
8.8 Swedish
5.0 Mozabite
4.2 Italian_Calabria






Levantine,0.0853674,0.1486734,-0.0573978,-0.0925072,-0.0096018,-0.0350286,-0.002209,-0.0081688,0.016321,0.008237,0.0091586,-0.0099212,0.0204854,0.0118632,-0.0055372,0.0021214,-0.011239,0.0010134,0.0021116,-0.003652,-0.0005242,0.003116,0.000567,-0.0029402,0.0046462
Arab,0.0542556,0.1360809,-0.0682589,-0.1211978,-0.0037272,-0.056305,-0.0130301,-0.0088204,0.0628798,-0.002045,0.0167981,-0.0325711,0.0657411,0.0058413,0.0080528,0.0270778,-0.0210643,0.0028717,-0.0019133,0.0248312,0.0137259,0.0160887,-0.0087369,0.0027848,-0.0052289
Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666
Iberian,0.1219803,0.1465747,0.0426775,0.002584,0.0 449827,-0.0008367,-0.0008617,0.0043845,0.025395,0.034321,-0.0023003,0.0096163,-0.0147918,-0.0124548,0.0070348,0.000442,-0.0014342,0.00038,-0.0044413,-0.0016048,0.0037017,-0.0006183,-0.0028348,-0.0064467,0.0018163
Italian,0.1256322,0.1482672,0.0303111,-0.0061572,0.0342755,-0.0004532,0.0020416,0.0020047,0.0100346,0.0230415,-0.0022328,0.0054889,-0.0105363,-0.0038189,-0.0026974,0.000953,0.0034796,0.0019557,0.0028518,-0.0042286,-0.0009982,0.0028594,-0.0001309,0.001318,-0.0021479
Iranian,0.0885141,0.0956389,-0.0638664,-0.024092,-0.0460899,0.0007546,0.0044097,-0.0052124,-0.0285852,-0.0148255,0.0007832,-0.0010579,0.0047396,-0.00255,0.0045506,0.0118005,-0.0054146,0.0015202,0.0019668,-0.008938,-0.0004036,-0.0033604,0.0012905,-0.0044371,0.0040645
Georgian,0.108132,0.1332374,-0.0619988,-0.0459952,-0.0383456,-0.0089246,0.0113746,-0.0056768,-0.0639748,-0.0175312,-0.0004546,0.0130384,-0.0251532,0.0072388,0.001873,-0.0238662,0.0070668,-0.0044088,-0.0095026,0.0153074,0.0115046,0.0013602,2.46e-05,-0.0070852,-0.0017964
German,0.1302626,0.1373792,0.0579811,0.0387068,0.0 400035,0.0156461,0.0040665,0.0057865,0.003526,0.00 188,-0.0044133,0.0023732,-0.0053706,-0.0025417,0.0085125,0.0032913,-0.0032728,0.0016631,0.0033669,0.0017191,0.00314,0. 002005,7.18e-05,0.0083052,0.0002774
English,0.1318551,0.137043,0.0617883,0.044013,0.03 92299,0.0167481,0.0049845,0.0057448,0.0052637,0.00 56781,-0.0047691,0.0056161,-0.0125892,-0.0103507,0.0206153,0.0035521,-0.0103689,0.004094,0.003685,0.0029619,0.0059369,0. 0034036,-0.0032693,0.0137938,3.16e-05
Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Dinka,-0.577083,0.0507765,-0.0003773,-0.0075098,-0.0053855,-0.0016735,-0.0176848,0.0204222,0.081145,-0.0969495,-0.02107,0.022742,-0.0383172,-0.0011698,0.0101452,-0.021347,0.0186125,-0.0094382,0.0241968,-0.0241678,0.002402,0.003308,0.001479,0.0009038,0.0 096995

:

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.6829% / 0.01682852
92.2 Iberian
6.4 English
0.8 Arab
0.6 Berber_Tunisia_Chen

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 2.1201% / 0.02120099
75.8 Iberian
16.6 Italian
7.6 Berber_Tunisia_Chen

Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 2.1848% / 0.02184850
78.8 Iberian
19.6 English
1.6 Berber_Tunisia_Chen

I still don´t know why I score less MENA than my mother.:confused:

Change your coordinates name and try my new model Hamilcar, Adamm is not already here, and I need a representant from NA to check if it works well.:)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?337761-UN-geographical-World-Regions-G25-Scaled-calculator-(customized-references)&p=7015610#post7015610

[Luso]

My question was the Visigoths were obviously taller and stronger than the Moors (they came from the shores of the Baltic Sea) so why didn't they have a problem with their women being enslaved?

How do we know they were? They could be short for all we know, in fact, they probably were around 5 foot 7-ish avg at this time. And how do we know that the moors weren't strong or similar heights? These seem engraved in stereotypes.

[Cristiano viejo]

That's not the reason. Berbers settled in Western part of Iberia

Source: your imagination.

[Luso]

Try this model (Scaled):

French+Basque:French_Auvergne,0.1254161,0.1446566, 0.0474194,0.0129918,0.0434726,0.0039974,-0.0003394,0.0025128,0.0154076,0.0221721,-0.0024659,0.0073546,-0.0139686,-0.0096693,0.0082989,0.001483,-0.0007871,0.0014968,0.0030726,-0.000213,0.0018579,0.003737,-0.0022823,0.0018163,-8.87e-05
French+Basque:Basque_French,0.128051,0.1520246,0.0 551727,0.0128231,0.0564104,0.0025099,-0.00141,0.0033229,0.0305968,0.0412036,-0.0092724,0.0103408,-0.0209761,-0.0140237,0.0132192,-0.0019359,-0.0119173,0.0030278,-0.0007165,-0.0044144,0.010157,0.0024855,-0.0086397,-0.0091698,7.18e-05
French+Basque:French_Occitanie,0.1270391,0.1448823 ,0.048879,0.0179086,0.0433756,0.0034164,0.0005222, 0.0038909,0.0148564,0.0235894,-0.0032883,0.0065816,-0.0150436,-0.0094578,0.010737,0.0025671,-0.0037088,0.0024846,0.0014247,4.52e-05,0.0036706,0.0024456,-0.0025505,0.0017673,0.0004224
Italian_Calabria,0.1028203,0.1462363,-0.011942,-0.0466197,0.0125147,-0.0117133,-0.0024283,-0.0031537,0.0044993,0.0215037,0.000433,0.0027977,-0.0055003,-0.000963,-0.009636,-0.0052593,0.0068237,0.0009713,0.0051537,-0.003043,-0.0026203,-0.0023907,-0.0001643,0.0037753,0.00012
Mozabite,-0.0649782,0.135551,-0.0032793,-0.0717622,0.0260249,-0.0328364,-0.0260656,0.0108257,0.0617306,0.0303463,0.0065097,-0.006366,0.021795,-0.0165685,0.0163159,-0.016176,-0.0027097,-0.0219282,-0.0435571,0.0082757,-0.0146263,-0.0367947,0.0246817,-0.0042277,0.0056594
Swedish,0.1339317,0.1282953,0.0720659,0.0563097,0. 0409013,0.0214348,0.0070612,0.0092964,0.0049085,-0.0065951,-0.0048022,0.001513,-0.004651,-0.0038337,0.0150003,0.0040156,-0.0072332,0.0020029,0.0034837,0.0048772,0.0070768, 0.0022787,0.0011269,0.0106612,-0.0009751

Don't expect to score more than 11% NA, the most extreme case I've seen had 12% of it. The moor clown is obviously inflating NA in Iberians, 15% NA for a Portuguese is just too much and would be a rare isolated case.

tbf I get 15% lol

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.1438% / 0.02143784
54.0 French+Basque
16.6 Italian_Calabria
15.0 Mozabite
14.4 Swedish

[Synapsid]

Source: your imagination.

Its in the 2018 and 2019 papers.

[Luso]

Levantine,0.0853674,0.1486734,-0.0573978,-0.0925072,-0.0096018,-0.0350286,-0.002209,-0.0081688,0.016321,0.008237,0.0091586,-0.0099212,0.0204854,0.0118632,-0.0055372,0.0021214,-0.011239,0.0010134,0.0021116,-0.003652,-0.0005242,0.003116,0.000567,-0.0029402,0.0046462
Arab,0.0542556,0.1360809,-0.0682589,-0.1211978,-0.0037272,-0.056305,-0.0130301,-0.0088204,0.0628798,-0.002045,0.0167981,-0.0325711,0.0657411,0.0058413,0.0080528,0.0270778,-0.0210643,0.0028717,-0.0019133,0.0248312,0.0137259,0.0160887,-0.0087369,0.0027848,-0.0052289
Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666
Iberian,0.1219803,0.1465747,0.0426775,0.002584,0.0 449827,-0.0008367,-0.0008617,0.0043845,0.025395,0.034321,-0.0023003,0.0096163,-0.0147918,-0.0124548,0.0070348,0.000442,-0.0014342,0.00038,-0.0044413,-0.0016048,0.0037017,-0.0006183,-0.0028348,-0.0064467,0.0018163
Italian,0.1256322,0.1482672,0.0303111,-0.0061572,0.0342755,-0.0004532,0.0020416,0.0020047,0.0100346,0.0230415,-0.0022328,0.0054889,-0.0105363,-0.0038189,-0.0026974,0.000953,0.0034796,0.0019557,0.0028518,-0.0042286,-0.0009982,0.0028594,-0.0001309,0.001318,-0.0021479
Iranian,0.0885141,0.0956389,-0.0638664,-0.024092,-0.0460899,0.0007546,0.0044097,-0.0052124,-0.0285852,-0.0148255,0.0007832,-0.0010579,0.0047396,-0.00255,0.0045506,0.0118005,-0.0054146,0.0015202,0.0019668,-0.008938,-0.0004036,-0.0033604,0.0012905,-0.0044371,0.0040645
Georgian,0.108132,0.1332374,-0.0619988,-0.0459952,-0.0383456,-0.0089246,0.0113746,-0.0056768,-0.0639748,-0.0175312,-0.0004546,0.0130384,-0.0251532,0.0072388,0.001873,-0.0238662,0.0070668,-0.0044088,-0.0095026,0.0153074,0.0115046,0.0013602,2.46e-05,-0.0070852,-0.0017964
German,0.1302626,0.1373792,0.0579811,0.0387068,0.0 400035,0.0156461,0.0040665,0.0057865,0.003526,0.00 188,-0.0044133,0.0023732,-0.0053706,-0.0025417,0.0085125,0.0032913,-0.0032728,0.0016631,0.0033669,0.0017191,0.00314,0. 002005,7.18e-05,0.0083052,0.0002774
English,0.1318551,0.137043,0.0617883,0.044013,0.03 92299,0.0167481,0.0049845,0.0057448,0.0052637,0.00 56781,-0.0047691,0.0056161,-0.0125892,-0.0103507,0.0206153,0.0035521,-0.0103689,0.004094,0.003685,0.0029619,0.0059369,0. 0034036,-0.0032693,0.0137938,3.16e-05
Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Dinka,-0.577083,0.0507765,-0.0003773,-0.0075098,-0.0053855,-0.0016735,-0.0176848,0.0204222,0.081145,-0.0969495,-0.02107,0.022742,-0.0383172,-0.0011698,0.0101452,-0.021347,0.0186125,-0.0094382,0.0241968,-0.0241678,0.002402,0.003308,0.001479,0.0009038,0.0 096995


Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.4909% / 0.02490852
73.8 Iberian
12.4 English
9.2 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
2.8 Levantine
1.8 Dinka

[gixajo]

There is no way, the NA in Iberians rises, falls or even disappears depending on the sources we use, it is a component that is both persistent and ephemeral.

As for the SSA, in the datasheet references it does not appear much to the rest of Europeans, but in individual results of people here, I get tired of seeing that component even more frequently than in Iberians.

But of course, if it is not a Southern European who scores SSA, Levantine, Middle Eastern or NA, it is a mistake surely.

[Luso]

There is no way, the NA in Iberians rises, falls or even disappears depending on the sources we use, it is a component that is both persistent and ephemeral.

As for the SSA, in the datasheet references it does not appear much to the rest of Europeans, but in individual results of people here, I get tired of seeing that component even more frequently than in Iberians.

But of course, if it is not a Southern European who scores SSA, Levantine, Middle Eastern or NA, it is a mistake surely.

Yes, and we know that the NA sources have some inevitable overlap between Iberian sources lol. So it isn't set in stone.

[Hamilcar]

No, i just like to simplify things.

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.9424% / 0.01942407
69.6 Iberian
18.6 English
7.6 Levantine
2.8 Yoruba
0.8 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.6 Georgian

Where is my 15% North African?

that's highly suspicious send me your coordinates (all the portuguese samples get around 11% and suddenly you score almost none :rolleyes: )

[Synapsid]

My question was the Visigoths were obviously taller and stronger than the Moors (they came from the shores of the Baltic Sea) so why didn't they have a problem with their women being enslaved?

Back then, Cavalry ruled the day. The Horse's stirup was invented in N. China during Xianbei era and spread West to Persia then to the Arab conquerors of the Middle East. When Ummayads invaded Spain, the Arabo-Berber Cavalry defeated the Visigothic force due to better cavalry tactics and also importantly, the use of horse stirrups, which allows a cavalryman to use lances and long swords more efficiently without fear of falling off the mount. However, the Franks in Frankia under Martell knew that the invading Islamic armies had better cavalry and therefore drilled themselves in heavy infantry anti cav tactics and placing the battlefield were cavalry would be less effective, resulting in the Frankish victory at Tours

[gixajo]

Yes, and we know that the NA sources have some inevitable overlap between Iberian sources lol. So it isn't set in stone.

The fact is that the NA component of the Iberians, is broken down into SA / Levantino / Arab / Middle East / Berber as soon as you start to put those references.

[Damião de Góis]

that's highly suspicious send me your coordinates (all the portuguese samples get around 11% and suddenly you score almost none :rolleyes: )

I just made this on Paint in 5 minutes:

https://i.imgur.com/giW3MhJ.jpg

[Hamilcar]

hahah I honestly wasn't expecting damio to be so much delusional and complexed

gixajo you should teach him a bit because he seems lost

[Damião de Góis]

hahah I honestly wasn't expecting damio to be so much delusional and complexed

gixajo you should teach him a bit because he seems lost

Where is my 15% North African? Would you like my coordinates so you can find a custom model for me?

[Hamilcar]

I just made this on Paint in 5 minutes:

https://i.imgur.com/giW3MhJ.jpg


that's what the average portuguese get with the same model :

Target: Portuguese
Distance: 0.7021% / 0.00702054
69.8 Iberian
11.8 English
10.4 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
5.6 Italian
0.8 Arab
0.8 Georgian
0.8 Levantine


You clearly have done something ...suspicious

[Ethel]

tbf I get 15% lol

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.1438% / 0.02143784
54.0 French+Basque
16.6 Italian_Calabria
15.0 Mozabite
14.4 Swedish

Hmm indeed, try this one instead:


Iberia_BA:Iberia_Central_BA,0.1239044,0.1505886,0. 059639,0.0003691,0.0686281,-0.0074901,-0.0052371,-0.0001319,0.0395609,0.0550354,-0.0029926,0.01291,-0.0243167,-0.019621,0.0066116,0.0103233,0.0156089,-0.0004163,-0.0021549,0.0007146,0.0115154,-0.0001766,-0.0088561,-0.020261,0.0028397
Iberia_BA:Iberia_North_BA,0.1242568,0.154699,0.055 5627,0.004522,0.0679613,-0.002417,-0.0025068,0.0038458,0.0341553,0.0550352,-0.0043032,0.0096663,-0.0209117,-0.0154367,0.0064918,0.0047733,0.0091053,0.0049197,-0.0011732,-0.002522,0.0091712,0.0056468,-0.0093462,-0.0190388,0.003752
Iberia_BA:Iberia_Northeast_BA,0.1263438,0.1502982, 0.0608579,0.0031896,0.066897,-0.0059264,-0.0008225,-0.0004904,0.038834,0.055058,-0.0028212,0.0090484,-0.025644,-0.0184072,0.0007975,0.0107232,0.0113922,0.0003484, 0.0009271,0.0039394,0.0108089,0.0023186,-0.0131569,-0.0163879,0.0003441
Iberia_BA:Iberia_Southeast_BA,0.1269128,0.1571532, 0.055625,-0.0073482,0.0667815,-0.006763,-0.0067562,0.0053652,0.048063,0.0672453,-0.0018675,0.0116522,-0.0258298,-0.0177187,0.005225,0.0056685,0.0052478,-0.0016785,0.0006285,0.0003122,0.0087348,0.001082,-0.0048685,-0.0211775,-0.0010475
Iberia_BA:Iberia_Southwest_BA,0.1200835,0.1497905, 0.050534,-0.0134045,0.064166,-0.0133865,-0.0019975,0.0047305,0.046018,0.062416,-0.003735,0.012214,-0.022894,-0.013212,0.0059715,-0.0007955,-0.0037815,-0.003864,0.001571,0.003064,0.0146615,0.0007415,-0.00758,-0.0265095,0.002215
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:DA111,0.124067,0.151314,0.063 356,0.026163,0.0437,0.005857,0.001175,0.002308,0.0 20861,0.02442,-0.012342,0.00015,-0.01665,-0.003165,0.014658,-0.009546,-0.018254,0.003801,0.005908,0.001626,0.009858,0.006 059,-0.004437,-0.005904,-0.005269
SWE_BA,0.119514,0.142174,0.073916,0.062016,0.03108 3,0.011156,0.012691,0.015692,0.011658,-0.003645,-0.001624,-0.006744,-0.007879,-0.009634,0.014794,0.024794,0.018775,-0.006334,-0.01081,-0.00075,-0.001497,0.002844,0.006532,-0.011568,0.000359
Canary_Islands_Guanche,-0.0393828,0.1314096,-0.0023384,-0.0687344,0.0337292,-0.0363672,-0.0299874,0.008261,0.0708878,0.0305428,0.0075674,-0.0059948,0.0182554,-0.0176982,0.0232082,-0.0130468,0.0031814,-0.019206,-0.044321,0.010405,-0.0134762,-0.0377142,0.0232692,-0.0011806,0.0046224
ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141

[Hamilcar]

Where is my 15% North African? Would you like my coordinates so you can find a custom model for me?

All the studies are clear about the proportion of NA admixture in Portugal why are you refuting these studies ?

And with accurate models you also get 11%

[Luso]

Hmm indeed, try this one instead:


Iberia_BA:Iberia_Central_BA,0.1239044,0.1505886,0. 059639,0.0003691,0.0686281,-0.0074901,-0.0052371,-0.0001319,0.0395609,0.0550354,-0.0029926,0.01291,-0.0243167,-0.019621,0.0066116,0.0103233,0.0156089,-0.0004163,-0.0021549,0.0007146,0.0115154,-0.0001766,-0.0088561,-0.020261,0.0028397
Iberia_BA:Iberia_North_BA,0.1242568,0.154699,0.055 5627,0.004522,0.0679613,-0.002417,-0.0025068,0.0038458,0.0341553,0.0550352,-0.0043032,0.0096663,-0.0209117,-0.0154367,0.0064918,0.0047733,0.0091053,0.0049197,-0.0011732,-0.002522,0.0091712,0.0056468,-0.0093462,-0.0190388,0.003752
Iberia_BA:Iberia_Northeast_BA,0.1263438,0.1502982, 0.0608579,0.0031896,0.066897,-0.0059264,-0.0008225,-0.0004904,0.038834,0.055058,-0.0028212,0.0090484,-0.025644,-0.0184072,0.0007975,0.0107232,0.0113922,0.0003484, 0.0009271,0.0039394,0.0108089,0.0023186,-0.0131569,-0.0163879,0.0003441
Iberia_BA:Iberia_Southeast_BA,0.1269128,0.1571532, 0.055625,-0.0073482,0.0667815,-0.006763,-0.0067562,0.0053652,0.048063,0.0672453,-0.0018675,0.0116522,-0.0258298,-0.0177187,0.005225,0.0056685,0.0052478,-0.0016785,0.0006285,0.0003122,0.0087348,0.001082,-0.0048685,-0.0211775,-0.0010475
Iberia_BA:Iberia_Southwest_BA,0.1200835,0.1497905, 0.050534,-0.0134045,0.064166,-0.0133865,-0.0019975,0.0047305,0.046018,0.062416,-0.003735,0.012214,-0.022894,-0.013212,0.0059715,-0.0007955,-0.0037815,-0.003864,0.001571,0.003064,0.0146615,0.0007415,-0.00758,-0.0265095,0.002215
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:DA111,0.124067,0.151314,0.063 356,0.026163,0.0437,0.005857,0.001175,0.002308,0.0 20861,0.02442,-0.012342,0.00015,-0.01665,-0.003165,0.014658,-0.009546,-0.018254,0.003801,0.005908,0.001626,0.009858,0.006 059,-0.004437,-0.005904,-0.005269
SWE_BA,0.119514,0.142174,0.073916,0.062016,0.03108 3,0.011156,0.012691,0.015692,0.011658,-0.003645,-0.001624,-0.006744,-0.007879,-0.009634,0.014794,0.024794,0.018775,-0.006334,-0.01081,-0.00075,-0.001497,0.002844,0.006532,-0.011568,0.000359
Canary_Islands_Guanche,-0.0393828,0.1314096,-0.0023384,-0.0687344,0.0337292,-0.0363672,-0.0299874,0.008261,0.0708878,0.0305428,0.0075674,-0.0059948,0.0182554,-0.0176982,0.0232082,-0.0130468,0.0031814,-0.019206,-0.044321,0.010405,-0.0134762,-0.0377142,0.0232692,-0.0011806,0.0046224
ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 1.8740% / 0.01874046
62.4 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany
15.8 Canary_Islands_Guanche
13.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
8.6 Iberia_BA

[Damião de Góis]

that's what the average portuguese get with the same model :

Target: Portuguese
Distance: 0.7021% / 0.00702054
69.8 Iberian
11.8 English
10.4 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
5.6 Italian
0.8 Arab
0.8 Georgian
0.8 Levantine


You clearly have done something ...suspicious

Fine, you and everyone else can try your model with my coordinates:

----------

Maybe they can find where my 15% North African is.

[gixajo]

Yes, and we know that the NA sources have some inevitable overlap between Iberian sources lol. So it isn't set in stone.

Depending which sources, it´s normal some overlapping, we are separated by 14 km, and we shared common history since very ancient times.

The genetic link is inevitable, the strange thing is that the NAs are not more Iberian and the Iberians more NA.

I still don't understand why we all go around the same thing so much.

[gixajo]

Hmm indeed, try this one instead:


Iberia_BA:Iberia_Central_BA,0.1239044,0.1505886,0. 059639,0.0003691,0.0686281,-0.0074901,-0.0052371,-0.0001319,0.0395609,0.0550354,-0.0029926,0.01291,-0.0243167,-0.019621,0.0066116,0.0103233,0.0156089,-0.0004163,-0.0021549,0.0007146,0.0115154,-0.0001766,-0.0088561,-0.020261,0.0028397
Iberia_BA:Iberia_North_BA,0.1242568,0.154699,0.055 5627,0.004522,0.0679613,-0.002417,-0.0025068,0.0038458,0.0341553,0.0550352,-0.0043032,0.0096663,-0.0209117,-0.0154367,0.0064918,0.0047733,0.0091053,0.0049197,-0.0011732,-0.002522,0.0091712,0.0056468,-0.0093462,-0.0190388,0.003752
Iberia_BA:Iberia_Northeast_BA,0.1263438,0.1502982, 0.0608579,0.0031896,0.066897,-0.0059264,-0.0008225,-0.0004904,0.038834,0.055058,-0.0028212,0.0090484,-0.025644,-0.0184072,0.0007975,0.0107232,0.0113922,0.0003484, 0.0009271,0.0039394,0.0108089,0.0023186,-0.0131569,-0.0163879,0.0003441
Iberia_BA:Iberia_Southeast_BA,0.1269128,0.1571532, 0.055625,-0.0073482,0.0667815,-0.006763,-0.0067562,0.0053652,0.048063,0.0672453,-0.0018675,0.0116522,-0.0258298,-0.0177187,0.005225,0.0056685,0.0052478,-0.0016785,0.0006285,0.0003122,0.0087348,0.001082,-0.0048685,-0.0211775,-0.0010475
Iberia_BA:Iberia_Southwest_BA,0.1200835,0.1497905, 0.050534,-0.0134045,0.064166,-0.0133865,-0.0019975,0.0047305,0.046018,0.062416,-0.003735,0.012214,-0.022894,-0.013212,0.0059715,-0.0007955,-0.0037815,-0.003864,0.001571,0.003064,0.0146615,0.0007415,-0.00758,-0.0265095,0.002215
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:DA111,0.124067,0.151314,0.063 356,0.026163,0.0437,0.005857,0.001175,0.002308,0.0 20861,0.02442,-0.012342,0.00015,-0.01665,-0.003165,0.014658,-0.009546,-0.018254,0.003801,0.005908,0.001626,0.009858,0.006 059,-0.004437,-0.005904,-0.005269
SWE_BA,0.119514,0.142174,0.073916,0.062016,0.03108 3,0.011156,0.012691,0.015692,0.011658,-0.003645,-0.001624,-0.006744,-0.007879,-0.009634,0.014794,0.024794,0.018775,-0.006334,-0.01081,-0.00075,-0.001497,0.002844,0.006532,-0.011568,0.000359
Canary_Islands_Guanche,-0.0393828,0.1314096,-0.0023384,-0.0687344,0.0337292,-0.0363672,-0.0299874,0.008261,0.0708878,0.0305428,0.0075674,-0.0059948,0.0182554,-0.0176982,0.0232082,-0.0130468,0.0031814,-0.019206,-0.044321,0.010405,-0.0134762,-0.0377142,0.0232692,-0.0011806,0.0046224
ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141

You are comparing a late medieval Guanche with references from Bronze age and one Italian from Iron Age...

[gixajo]

hahah I honestly wasn't expecting damio to be so much delusional and complexed

gixajo you should teach him a bit because he seems lost

Why complexed? He is showing his doubts about all this through his results, I have many too.

[Damião de Góis]

Why complexed? He is showing his doubts about all this through his results, I have many too.

All i said was that different models give different results, which is something we've seen in "our thread". And casted doubts on the 11% NA score which everyone was taking for granted as a sure thing.

This makes me a highly complexed individual :rolleyes:

[gixajo]

If we separate Portuguese references according to which survey they come from:

https://i.imgur.com/d5ib0yU.png

An according to my fantastic model:

Target: Berber_Tunisia_Chen
Distance: 4.7386% / 0.04738555
84.0 NorthernAfrica:Morocco+AlgeriaA
9.0 SouthernEurope:CentralSpain
7.0 SouthernEurope:ItalySouth

[gixajo]

All i said was that different models give different results, which is something we've seen in "our thread". And casted doubts on the 11% NA score which everyone was taking for granted as a sure thing.

This makes me a highly complexed individual :rolleyes:

You have your point of view on the matter, others may hold a different thesis than yours, that is no reason to define anyone with that type of personal qualification.

The usual, if I do not agree, in any case I would attack the thesis you propose, not you.

As long as I've had a good day, if I'm in a bad temper I don't rule out anything.:rolleyes:

[Area51Defender]

How do we know they were? They could be short for all we know, in fact, they probably were around 5 foot 7-ish avg at this time. And how do we know that the moors weren't strong or similar heights? These seem engraved in stereotypes.

The Visigoths were a Germanic people-group, and they were naturally taller than the Romans who they defeated because they originated in a much colder climate to the north. In order to cope with the cold Baltic climate, they had to develop strong traits like tall height and robust build. Also they naturally had fairer skin, eyes, and hair because the Baltic didn't receive as much annual sunlight as the Mediterranean.

On the other hand, the Moors originated from the hot deserts of North Africa and were a Semitic people-group, so they were naturally shorter. Also the West Africans that came along with the Moors were quite short as well: The tallest Sub-Saharan Africans (Nilotes) actually live in East Africa.

So the Visigoths were probably physically stronger than the Moors, even if they had weaker military skills.

[Luso]

The Visigoths were a Germanic people-group, and they were naturally taller than the Romans who they defeated because they originated in a much colder climate to the north. In order to cope with the cold Baltic climate, they had to develop strong traits like tall height and robust build. Also they naturally had fairer skin, eyes, and hair because the Baltic didn't receive as much annual sunlight as the Mediterranean.

On the other hand, the Moors originated from the hot deserts of North Africa and were a Semitic people-group, so they were naturally shorter. Also the West Africans that came along with the Moors were quite short as well: The tallest Sub-Saharan Africans (Nilotes) actually live in East Africa.

So the Visigoths were probably physically stronger than the Moors, even if they had weaker military skills.

I heard the Guanche population - which is comprised by Berbers were quite tall. 5 ft 9 to 6 ft 2 avg. So that is why I asked. I know that naturally Germanics were quite tall, and even for their time, but I wonder if there is bone excavations to compare.

[gixajo]

All i said was that different models give different results, which is something we've seen in "our thread". And casted doubts on the 11% NA score which everyone was taking for granted as a sure thing.

This makes me a highly complexed individual :rolleyes:

I think 11% pure NA alone is too much, but 11% NA + different Midlle Eastern and small ammounts of SSA components is not that rare.

[Defcon2]

I think 11% pure NA alone is too much, but 11% NA + different Midlle Eastern and small ammounts of SSA components is not that rare.

It is 11% medieval supposedly, and exclusively NA. It varies between regions: Portugal 11%, Galicia 10%, Extremadura 8%, Andalusia I don't remember but it must be around these percentages.

[gixajo]

The Visigoths were a Germanic people-group, and they were naturally taller than the Romans who they defeated because they originated in a much colder climate to the north. In order to cope with the cold Baltic climate, they had to develop strong traits like tall height and robust build. Also they naturally had fairer skin, eyes, and hair because the Baltic didn't receive as much annual sunlight as the Mediterranean.

On the other hand, the Moors originated from the hot deserts of North Africa and were a Semitic people-group, so they were naturally shorter. Also the West Africans that came along with the Moors were quite short as well: The tallest Sub-Saharan Africans (Nilotes) actually live in East Africa.

So the Visigoths were probably physically stronger than the Moors, even if they had weaker military skills.

Berbers are not Semitic people and the Germans did not defeat the Roman Empire because they were taller.:picard1:

[gixajo]

It is 11% medieval supposedly, and exclusively NA. It varies between regions: Portugal 11%, Galicia 10%, Extremadura 8%, Andalusia I don't remember but it must be around these percentages.

Sorry I meant, 15%...:picard1:

[gixajo]

Anyway...this thread was about SSA admixture.

It´s Hamilcar ,whenever he appears we end up talking about the same thing !!!

[Gota_type_]

It has to do with Pre-Islamic Berbers migrating to Western Iberia that piles up with more recent Medieval admixture. Western Iberia was more geography accessible and a more green place than Eastern Iberia, which was harsher in Geography so that's where Pre Islamic Berbers settled mixed with locals since there was no Religious barriers back then (although that why strangely the W. Islamic Taifa fell faster than the eastern ones in Velencia)

So, you English know better about archaelogy, history, and material culture of Spain than us Spaniards.

PROVE that the ""berebers" were living in Western Iberia. Give real scientific papers or archaeology. I guess that you have a clear agenda because the only thing related with berebers in ancient times is one tumb of a north-african DNA-like person, who could perfectly be some person wandering through the Iberian Peninsula.

Now, explain, where are those hundreds or thousands of old berebers civilizations in the Iberian Peninsula?? We have ZERO material culture, archaegology, cemeteries, or whatever of berebers. And if the "NorthAfrican" was a 5% in Spain and it is ancient, we should conclude that half the people living in ancient "Spain" had to be berebers, because to get a 5% after thousands of years, they had to be a sustancial amount of the population in ancient times, and would have left material culture and thousands other remains....but, hey, there are ZERO.

If you can´t, then stop using that stupid hypothesis because we live here, we know the history of our villages, our counties, our regions, we read the newspapers, archaeology, etc, and there has been ZERO news regarding massive population (or even negligible) of berebers here, in ANY PART of Spain.

[Gota_type_]

Here they are
https://i.ibb.co/G9kXFGH/African-European.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Wsrbm2d/Ancestral-clusters.jpg

So, this proves that berebers, or ancient northafricans were EUROPEAN-LIKE populations and that is why some retards use the label of "North-African" when they find common DNA segments with Spain, but it is not, it is that the bereberes or ancient northafricans were almost pure Europeans or caucasoids, and the "north-african" that some get in Spain is not northafrican but common shared ancestry between caucasoid groups.

And I am sure that if they added France, Italy, or even Germany, they will get very similar numbers, but hey, let´s just use Spain so we can take false conclussions about berebers inhabiting the Iberian Peninsula in millions or hundred of thousands, when there are ZERO remains here, zero archaeology, zero material culture. Absolutely nothing related with bereberes.


And subsaharan appears in all European countries, the more isolated their population is, the more "subsaharan" they get. Even in anthrogenica there was a north Swedish saying that he got like 0.9% subsaharan in a DNA test. Why? Because he lived in a very isolated place and thus he still have his old DNA more visible than let´s say people in Stockholm. And I am sure blacks never reached Sweden or Spain in ancient times.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

So, you English know better about archaelogy, history, and material culture of Spain than us Spaniards.

PROVE that the ""berebers" were living in Western Iberia. Give real scientific papers or archaeology. I guess that you have a clear agenda because the only thing related with berebers in ancient times is one tumb of a north-african DNA-like person, who could perfectly be some person wandering through the Iberian Peninsula.

Now, explain, where are those hundreds or thousands of old berebers civilizations in the Iberian Peninsula?? We have ZERO material culture, archaegology, cemeteries, or whatever of berebers. And if the "NorthAfrican" was a 5% in Spain and it is ancient, we should conclude that half the people living in ancient "Spain" had to be berebers, because to get a 5% after thousands of years, they had to be a sustancial amount of the population in ancient times, and would have left material culture and thousands other remains....but, hey, there are ZERO.

If you can´t, then stop using that stupid hypothesis because we live here, we know the history of our villages, our counties, our regions, we read the newspapers, archaeology, etc, and there has been ZERO news regarding massive population (or even negligible) of berebers here, in ANY PART of Spain.

What he says makes sense. Although we'd need it confirmed with ancient DNA samples.

Also, you don't need to be from a place to know about history and population genetics of that place. Someone born in Spain doesn't magically become an expert on Spanish history and population genetics simply because they're born and raised in the culture. You could be Japanese born in Tokyo and know far more about Spanish history and population genetics than some random Spaniard. It's a question of interest and time.

[gixajo]

https://i.imgur.com/du5lx3Q.png

Quite high European admixture, a 5.72% ,a 13.36% ,19.28% among Berbers and a 21.50% in North Morocco, and mainly probably Iberian (Eu2=South Europe).

[Adamm]

Simple G25 run with all ancient samples I could find from the ancient scaled data set, I highlighted the IBM admixture (which is indigenous North African admixture, IBM is modeled by some as 65% Eurasian 35% Sub Saharan African (which there is still ongoing debate about).

https://i.imgur.com/MercLmz.png

[Cernunnos]

"Either you agree with me or you are full of complexes!!!"


https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/cqwLSGlA37P87Axuph4nDuxviyw/fit-in/2048xorig/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2018/09/05/877/n/45197154/4f535d7a5b9036a6740497.17935028_/i/What-Say-Your-Kids-When-Cry.jpg

[Hamilcar]

"Either you agree with me or you are full of complexes!!!"




it's the studies not me. So now we have a bunch of amateurs on the internet that refute a long list of studies who reach the same conclusions

" I don't have a lot of north african ancestors I only score 5% IBM"

https://media.giphy.com/media/Vg0JstydL8HCg/giphy.gif

[Adamm]

Simple G25 run with all ancient samples I could find from the ancient scaled data set, I highlighted the IBM admixture (which is indigenous North African admixture, IBM is modeled by some as 65% Eurasian 35% Sub Saharan African (which there is still ongoing debate about).

https://i.imgur.com/MercLmz.png

And here the results with the modern Iberians (all that I could find on Davidski's database):

https://i.imgur.com/h93nPBc.png

[Hamilcar]

And here the results with the modern Iberians (all that I could find on Davidski's database):

https://i.imgur.com/h93nPBc.png

some of these andalusians and portuguese have around 18-20% of NA admixture, interesting

[gixajo]

But what are you arguing about? :confused:

[Damião de Góis]

it's the studies not me. So now we have a bunch of amateurs on the internet that refute a long list of studies who reach the same conclusions

" I don't have a lot of north african ancestors I only score 5% IBM"

https://media.giphy.com/media/Vg0JstydL8HCg/giphy.gif

So where's my 15% North African? I even gave you my coordinates.

[Rafael Passoni]

Interesting, Hunter-Gatherer DNA still significant.

[Ethel]

dunno why you guys still waste your time arguing with nassbitch, stay a little longer and y'all leave here with 20%~25% NA and belly dancing

[Hamilcar]

So where's my 15% North African? I even gave you my coordinates.

I never said you had 15%, I said portuguese in average have around 10-15% NA ancestry which is confirmed by the studies about your people that you don't read. I run your coordinates and compared to the average portuguese you have less NA admixture (around 8%) but unlike the average portuguese you do have ssa ancestry (2%) and it doesn't seem to be related to NAs nor is it "noise" (this same ssa admixture among portuguese is also confirmed by the study mopi posted I invite you to read it)

[gixajo]

As such, it does not help us much Adamm, we would have to separate the samples from before the Muslim invasion and after.

In reality, the whole "problem" is to measure the genetic inheritance left by Muslim rule in the peninsula and separate it from contributions prior to that.

Apparently what they talk about is which % of that SSA or NA is from the Muslim era.

And the Ibero Maurissian is not a good reference to see that, because NA yourselves are not 100% IM.

I am bored with the subject, I do not care when that contribution was received, nor do I care if I have it or not and in what quantity. We received Na, SSA, Levantine, Middle Eastern, Arab, in many times and in different historic moments, that´s clear for me.

When I say that I don´t care, I should rather say that since I know that right now we cannot separate it and I cannot satisfy my curiosity, I don't want to argue about something that I cannot determine.

We can give the G25 the laps you want, only with that we will never know that.

[Hamilcar]

dunno why you guys still waste your time arguing with nassbitch, stay a little longer and y'all leave here with 20%~25% NA and belly dancing

What's up with your obsession about me ? They are not arguing with me nor did I bumped this thread ...you seem to be really deranged when a north african talk about NA admixture in iberia. It does not concern you, you're brazilian go read some yaoi and let genetics for people who take their time to properly read and analyze the papers.

[Damião de Góis]

I never said you had 15%, I said portuguese in average have around 10-15% NA ancestry which is confirmed by the studies about your people that you don't read. I run your coordinates and compared to the average portuguese you have less NA admixture (around 8%) but unlike the average portuguese you do have ssa ancestry (2%) and it doesn't seem to be related to NAs nor is it "noise" (this same ssa admixture among portuguese is also confirmed by the study mopi posted I invite you to read it)

So we're back where we started?

https://i.imgur.com/152VYDk.png

All this spectacle and doubting my results for nothing?

[Hamilcar]

So we're back where we started?



All this spectacle and doubting my results for nothing?

what you posted just confirmed what I said...

[Damião de Góis]

what you posted just confirmed what I said...

So explain your math at least. Given the run and table i posted where are you getting the remaining percentages to get from 5% to 10-15%?

[Hamilcar]

So explain your math at least. Given the run and table i posted where are you getting the remaining percentages to get from 5% to 10-15%?

simple look at my results :

Target: Hamilcar_scaled
Distance: 2.9501% / 0.02950090
46.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N
27.4 MAR_Iberomaurusian
12.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
6.6 Yoruba
5.0 Levant_Natufian
1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.4 WHG


I'm only 27.4% IBM and portuguese have in average 5%....I let you do the math.

[Luso]

simple look at my results :

Target: Hamilcar_scaled
Distance: 2.9501% / 0.02950090
46.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N
27.4 MAR_Iberomaurusian
12.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
6.6 Yoruba
5.0 Levant_Natufian
1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.4 WHG


I'm only 27.4% IBM and portuguese have in average 5%....I let you do the math.

don't these results just prove that North African's component is not as dependent on iberomaursians as thought? So why is it so significant, if you as a native NA, barely get any of it yourself? It's interesting to me... saying that this component is what largely overlaps in ancient sources with Iberia already with inevitable portions. So in reality you gotta include the Levant, samara, Yoruba, IRN components into the iberomaurasian to make it a true NA percentage. It is more complex than it seems people think, and we obviously do not have enough research to conclude the correct % to the decimal.

[Adamm]

don't these results just prove that North African's component is not as dependent on iberomaursians as thought? So why is it so significant, if you as a native NA, barely get any of it yourself? It's interesting to me... saying that this component is what largely overlaps in ancient sources with Iberia already with inevitable portions. So in reality you gotta include the Levant, samara, Yoruba, IRN components into the iberomaurasian to make it a true NA percentage. It is more complex than it seems people think, and we obviously do not have enough research to conclude the correct % to the decimal.

Fully 100% North Africans (Morocco, Algeria) get consistently between 30 to 40% IBM (depending on the region), so what Hamilar is trying to say is the following:

https://i.imgur.com/2pPOlgY.png

Though I'm not sure if its oke to make this calculation as there may be some other factors coming into the play when it comes to the spread of autosomalic DNA.

[Luso]

Fully 100% North Africans (Morocco, Algeria) get consistently between 30 to 40% IBM (depending on the region), so what Hamilar is trying to say is the following:

https://i.imgur.com/2pPOlgY.png

Though I'm not sure if its oke to make this calculation as there may be some other factors coming into the play when it comes to the spread of autosomalic DNA.

Oh I see. Yeah I get what you’re saying.

[Hamilcar]

Fully 100% North Africans (Morocco, Algeria) get consistently between 30 to 40% IBM (depending on the region), so what Hamilar is trying to say is the following:

https://i.imgur.com/2pPOlgY.png

Though I'm not sure if its oke to make this calculation as there may be some other factors coming into the play when it comes to the spread of autosomalic DNA.

well you can question this calculation but I don't think it's a coincidence if the studies show similar results. Here an example :


Within the Iberian Peninsula, the admixture proportion of North African ancestry in southern Portugal samples was 11.17 ± 1.87%, similar to the values observed in Galicia (10.30 ± 1.64%) and western Andalusia (present study, 9.28 ± 1.79%). The Canary Islands (not selected here) exhibit extreme values of the inferred Maghrebi cluster (26%) (Guillen-Guio et al. 2018). Asni Berbers carry the highest proportion of the native Maghrebi ancestral cluster (82.74 ± 8.36%) with respect to the other Moroccan samples.

[Defcon2]

well you can question this calculation but I don't think it's a coincidence if the studies show similar results. Here an example :

The problem that I see is that 25% is a completely Algerian or Moroccan grandfather, that is to say that a person with 8.75% IBM necessarily has a direct grandfather native to North Africa, and there are Iberian people exceeding 7% IBM according to some models with what is 20% NA, this is much more than a great-grandfather.

I would get 18.8% (along with the SSA).

[Hamilcar]

The problem that I see is that 25% is a completely Algerian or Moroccan grandfather, that is to say that a person with 8.75% IBM necessarily has a direct grandfather native to North Africa, and there are Iberian people exceeding 7% IBM according to some models with what is 20% NA, this is much more than a great-grandfather.

I would get 18.8% (along with the SSA).


no it doesn't necessarily means you have a north african grandfather lol Are you going to say ethiopians have a yemenite parent because of them being around half natufian ?

[Area51Defender]

Oh I see. Yeah I get what you’re saying.

Is that what you really look like in your pfp, or are you just catfishing?

[Defcon2]

no it doesn't necessarily means you have a north african grandfather lol Are you going to say ethiopians have a yemenite parent because of them being around half natufian ?

The proportions of each person are these: 25 x 4.

25% of whatever is practically equal to a direct grandparent, since we inherit that percentage approximately from each grandparent (it is not exact).

The percentages depend on the model used, I can show you others, like this one (using nmonte3):


[1] "distance%=0.6865"

Portuguese

NW_Iberia_IA,71.4
Roman_Colonial,13.2
Berber_EMA,11.2
Germanic,4.2


[1] "distance%=0.566"

Spanish_Galicia

NW_Iberia_IA,74.6
Roman_Colonial,11.8
Berber_EMA,10.8
Germanic,2.8


[1] "distance%=0.7804"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

NW_Iberia_IA,79.4
Roman_Colonial,10.8
Berber_EMA,9.8


[1] "distance%=1.5266"

Spanish_Asturias

NW_Iberia_IA,86.2
Berber_EMA,8.8
Roman_Colonial,5

My result:

[1] "distance%=1.9178"

JJJ

NW_Iberia_IA,79.8
Roman_Colonial,12.4
Berber_EMA,7.8

[Hamilcar]

The proportions of each person are these: 25 x 4.

25% of whatever is practically equal to a direct grandparent, since we inherit that percentage approximately from each grandparent (it is not exact).

The percentages depend on the model used, I can show you others, like this one (using nmonte3):



My result:

[1] "distance%=1.9178"

JJJ

NW_Iberia_IA,79.8
Roman_Colonial,12.4
Berber_EMA,7.8


but that assumption isn't correct when your whole population has berber admixture (with variation of course). If you were german and had 25% berber ancestry then yes it would have certainly mean you have a berber grandparent but that isn't correct when almost all of your people have NA admixture that they acquired at some points in the past.

[Damião de Góis]

simple look at my results :

Target: Hamilcar_scaled
Distance: 2.9501% / 0.02950090
46.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N
27.4 MAR_Iberomaurusian
12.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
6.6 Yoruba
5.0 Levant_Natufian
1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.4 WHG


I'm only 27.4% IBM and portuguese have in average 5%....I let you do the math.

You could have answered this at my post #359 (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?221225-New-African-Admixture-in-Iberia&p=7014500&viewfull=1#post7014500), on page 36 (thanks also to Adamm for clarifying it more). It would have saved us from 10 pages of drama and accusations of altering results.

Anyway i don't think your calculation is correct. It would be if the remaining of your results on that run were all north african specific, but they aren't.

[Luso]

Is that what you really look like in your pfp, or are you just catfishing?

That’s me lol. Why?

[Area51Defender]

That’s me lol. Why?

You look gypsy or Goan to me.

[Luso]

You look gypsy or Goan to me.

Good! :rolleyes: are you from italic roots?

[Mixdguy17]

You look gypsy or Goan to me.

lol no he doesnt.

[Hamilcar]

You could have answered this at my post #359 (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?221225-New-African-Admixture-in-Iberia&p=7014500&viewfull=1#post7014500), on page 36 (thanks also to Adamm for clarifying it more). It would have saved us from 10 pages of drama and accusations of altering results.

Anyway i don't think your calculation is correct. It would be if the remaining of your results on that run were all north african specific, but they aren't.

well that's what I was saying the last 10 pages to you and yes it does seem correct because it's correlated with what the studies says and by your logic I'm mostly european not north african because my components are EEF and steppe lol If my children are mixed my total contribution would be 50% not 27% lol

[Area51Defender]

Good! :rolleyes: are you from italic roots?

Is there anything wrong if I am? Am I not allowed to have dual membership?

[Luso]

Is there anything wrong if I am? Am I not allowed to have dual membership?

ofc you are. I've browsed the site and it is a very funny small circlejerk of like 5 Italian white supremacists who have a fetish for blond hair blue eyes :picard2:that's all. Since when are Sicilians all as pale and blonde as Swedish? And then looking at stuff like this makes me laugh at how sad the agenda is-

https://i.imgur.com/ojoebLL.png

https://i.imgur.com/skG5pRV.png

:thumb001:

So now it's not surprising you think I'm gyspy LOL, b/c you think anyone swarthy and not Nordic as fuck is non-european.

[dududud]

ofc you are. I've browsed the site and it is a very funny small circlejerk of like 5 Italian white supremacists who have a fetish for blond hair blue eyes :picard2:that's all. And then looking at stuff like this makes me laugh at how sad the agenda is-

https://i.imgur.com/ojoebLL.png

https://i.imgur.com/skG5pRV.png

Aermacchi is half english and half northern italian. He like to suck the blond dick.

[Peter Parker]

I've never understood why people are ashamed of having darker features.
I'm not proud of it (it's stupid anyway to be proud of something you had no hand in achieving) but I find it pretty cool to have dark hair and eyes.

Of course blond or red hair can look nice too. But a lot of Southern Europeans are seen as attractive exactly because they have darker features.

[Luso]

I've never understood why people are ashamed of having darker features.
I'm not proud of it (it's stupid anyway to be proud of something you had no hand in achieving) but I find it pretty cool to have dark hair and eyes.

Of course blond or red hair can look nice too, of course. But a lot of Southern Europeans are seen as attractive exactly because they have darker features.

The only reason is b/c of white supremacist low-lives who think this shit is a big dealio. Irl no one gives a shit lol, really only the obsessed people, like I posted (from Italic Roots), think phenotype and skin complexion is worth discussing all day 7 days a week/ 24/7. I've never seen someone so obsessed ngl. And now I'm learning the person isn't even fully Italian :picard2: I feel bad for real Italians without stupid complexes like that that have to see someone saying they are the "whitest" of the white in Europe. Cause that's pretty much what I'm seeing.

Also, I am proud of my dark features, but I don't like being classified poorly, or being passively insulted by being called someone I'm not close to under retarded ignorance. Probably a troll tho

[Cristiano viejo]

ofc you are. I've browsed the site and it is a very funny small circlejerk of like 5 Italian white supremacists who have a fetish for blond hair blue eyes :picard2:that's all. Since when are Sicilians all as pale and blonde as Swedish?
White, you say? jaja, that was funny. I remember some members of iTALIc Rats when they posted here and they looked like fuckin MENAs (well, what they are after all).


The problem that I see is that 25% is a completely Algerian or Moroccan grandfather, that is to say that a person with 8.75% IBM necessarily has a direct grandfather native to North Africa, and there are Iberian people exceeding 7% IBM according to some models with what is 20% NA, this is much more than a great-grandfather.

I would get 18.8% (along with the SSA).

I already have explained this to Nassbean in the past, but he dont want to understand.

[Rafael Passoni]

We know fighting for an idea anything goes, but the author of this post on Italic Roots was so cruel comparing a pic of three beautiful guys who did "mirror's face" to an old man pic taked out from a paused video. He could choose this spaniard guy (Ferran Calderón) to compare:


104329

Why not?

[Rafael Passoni]

They found R1b there: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259979497_POSSIBLE_AFRICAN_ORIGIN_OF_Y-CHROMOSOME_R1-M173

[Gota_type_]

What he says makes sense. Although we'd need it confirmed with ancient DNA samples.

Also, you don't need to be from a place to know about history and population genetics of that place. Someone born in Spain doesn't magically become an expert on Spanish history and population genetics simply because they're born and raised in the culture. You could be Japanese born in Tokyo and know far more about Spanish history and population genetics than some random Spaniard. It's a question of interest and time.

We are not talking about the average Joe but people that already know how these things (archaeology, genetics, subrracial cathegories, and things like these) work in different degree. I perfectly know the history of my town, my county, my región and my country. I read like 30-40 History books each year (I don´t read other thing basically) and I can guarantee you that there are zero remains left of bereberes in any part of Spain (except the tumb of 1-2 northafricans or 1-2 muslim cemeteries in the south during Al-Andalus), zero material culture left of bereberes, zero archaeology, zero ceramics, zero rastros of bereberes civilization. Zero. Considering that some ignorants want us to have like a 5% "North-African" (aka bereber) in today´s Spaniards, they should have been like 50-60% of the total population 3000-5000 years ago. So, then, by basic logic, where are those civilizations or remains? Nowhere. Zero.

Sooner or later it will be confirmed that the ""North-African"" in Spaniards is not north-african but just common proto-European or proto-Med admixture in a time where most Europeans looked mostly the same (or 2-3 different main types basically) since steppe people had just arrived in those times. So, most north-Africans probably looked quite similar to Europeans, and berebers were probably a small European group that settled in north-Africa, and not the opposite.

[Mopi The Dire Wolf]

We are not talking about the average Joe but people that already know how these things (archaeology, genetics, subrracial cathegories, and things like these) work in different degree. I perfectly know the history of my town, my county, my región and my country. I read like 30-40 History books each year (I don´t read other thing basically) and I can guarantee you that there are zero remains left of bereberes in any part of Spain (except the tumb of 1-2 northafricans or 1-2 muslim cemeteries in the south during Al-Andalus), zero material culture left of bereberes, zero archaeology, zero ceramics, zero rastros of bereberes civilization. Zero. Considering that some ignorants want us to have like a 5% "North-African" (aka bereber) in today´s Spaniards, they should have been like 50-60% of the total population 3000-5000 years ago. So, then, by basic logic, where are those civilizations or remains? Nowhere. Zero.

Sooner or later it will be confirmed that the ""North-African"" in Spaniards is not north-african but just common proto-European or proto-Med admixture in a time where most Europeans looked mostly the same (or 2-3 different main types basically) since steppe people had just arrived in those times. So, most north-Africans probably looked quite similar to Europeans, and berebers were probably a small European group that settled in north-Africa, and not the opposite.

+1000

well said :thumb001:

[Mopi The Dire Wolf]

We are not talking about the average Joe but people that already know how these things (archaeology, genetics, subrracial cathegories, and things like these) work in different degree. I perfectly know the history of my town, my county, my región and my country. I read like 30-40 History books each year (I don´t read other thing basically) and I can guarantee you that there are zero remains left of bereberes in any part of Spain (except the tumb of 1-2 northafricans or 1-2 muslim cemeteries in the south during Al-Andalus), zero material culture left of bereberes, zero archaeology, zero ceramics, zero rastros of bereberes civilization. Zero. Considering that some ignorants want us to have like a 5% "North-African" (aka bereber) in today´s Spaniards, they should have been like 50-60% of the total population 3000-5000 years ago. So, then, by basic logic, where are those civilizations or remains? Nowhere. Zero.

Sooner or later it will be confirmed that the ""North-African"" in Spaniards is not north-african but just common proto-European or proto-Med admixture in a time where most Europeans looked mostly the same (or 2-3 different main types basically) since steppe people had just arrived in those times. So, most north-Africans probably looked quite similar to Europeans, and berebers were probably a small European group that settled in north-Africa, and not the opposite.

+1000

well said :thumb001:

[Hamilcar]

+1000

well said :thumb001:

dumbass morocco is at 15km of spain but you think North africans never went there ? We do have genetic and archeological evidence he doesn't even know what he's talking about. The moors never went there ? Carthaginians never went there ?

let's post some examples so you understand how dumb he is :


Our Copper Age dataset includes a newly reported male (I4246) from Camino de las Yeseras (14) in central Iberia, radiocarbon dated to 2473–2030 calibrated years BCE, who clusters with modern and ancient North Africans in the PCA (Fig. 1C and fig. S3) and, like ~3000 BCE Moroccans (8), can be well modeled as having ancestry from both Late Pleistocene North Africans (15) and Early Neolithic Europeans (tables S9 and S10). His genome-wide ancestry and uniparental markers (tables S1 and S4) are unique among Copper Age Iberians, including individuals from sites with many analyzed individuals such as Sima del Ángel, and point to a North African origin

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/363/6432/1230

"copper age" so that was even before iberians as we know them today existed ...


let's see other examples :


It is specifically highlighted that the African influence on the Iberian Peninsula is, by far, more intense than in other European surrounding territories and populations.

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/37/4/1041/5670533


In Spain to maintain the Punic order, he brought 15,000 Libyan soldiers from Africa whom he entrusted to his brother Hasdrubal

Yann le bohec, Military History of the Punic Wars, p133




and the difficulties in Mauretania, where the "king" Garmul succeeded in defeating three Byzantine generals, who lost their lives in these clashes: the prefect of Africa Theodore in 569, the magistri militum Theoctistus in 570 and Amabilis in 571, to which 'we read in the Chronicle of John de Biclar; the episode, which occupies the years 569-572, remains very poorly known but caused the exile of many Africans to Spain. The situation was only restored during the reign of Tiberius Constantine by the campaign of the magister militum Gennadius who succeeded in defeating Garmul definitively in 578 or 579.

Africa quasi Roma by Jean-Marie Lassère,p708


Explain this to us pls :

https://i.imgur.com/GbdtXwb.jpg


and I can continue posting examples fucking ignorant retards, you haven't even open a book in your life and you dare to contradict the conclusions of years of study by scholars ?

[Cristiano viejo]

dumbass morocco is at 15km of spain but you think North africans never went there ? We do have genetic and archeological evidence he doesn't even know what he's talking about. The moors never went there ? Carthaginians never went there ?

and I can continue posting examples fucking ignorant retards, you haven't even open a book in your life and you dare to contradict the conclusions of years of study by scholars ?
Spaniards and Portuguese have nothing to do with North Africans genetically. FACT.
Moors ALWAYS were here... and we are the dumbasses... :rolleyes:

By the way, being in a place means nothing. Spaniards were in Netherlands and your host country Belgium for centuries and in amounts muuuuuuuch higher than the four Berbers and Arabs that came here, and not for that there is Spanish dna among Dutch and Belgians.

[Rafael Passoni]

I'm part Spaniard descent and I did't score Africa.

[Cernunnos]

Spaniards and Portuguese have nothing to do with North Africans genetically. FACT.
Moors ALWAYS were here... and we are the dumbasses... :rolleyes:

By the way, being in a place means nothing. Spaniards were in Netherlands and your host country Belgium for centuries and in amounts muuuuuuuch higher than the four Berbers and Arabs that came here, and not for that there is Spanish dna among Dutch and Belgians.

Did you know you are 25% geneticaly similar to a rat? The things we learn....

[Ethel]

Did you know you are 25% geneticaly similar to a rat? The things we learn....

85% on average, actually

[French Rolland]

There is probably more moorish influence with the current-day morrocan immigration than by history.

[Gredos]

There is probably more moorish influence with the current-day morrocan immigration than by history.

Europe is about to disappear as we know it, and meanwhile in this forum the important thing is the African and Phoenician migration and mixing in the Bronze Age

[Cristiano viejo]

There is probably more moorish influence with the current-day morrocan immigration than by history.

Probably, you say?? today there are between 1 and 2 millions of REAL Moroccan immigrants in Spain while 500 years ago when they were expelled they were barely 300.000 and as it is known most of them were racially Iberian...

[French Rolland]

They even proved some were from SLAVIC area. Here we are flooded with North Africans and Sub-Saharians. I felt that.

[French Rolland]

Double post