Y-DNA haplogroup I2a1b3

[Antidemokrat]

Hello everyone,

I recently did a Y-DNA haplogroup test and my result came back as I2a1b3. I can't really find anything about it, so I hoped you lovely people here could either tell me more about this haplogroup or direct me to some sources where I can learn more about this specific haplogroup.

Thanks in advance :D

[Bosniensis]

New Age Serb.

Probably mutated from Serb to Srbenda.

xD


Šalim se

Evo šta pišu na jednom forumu

"U svakom slučaju, reci mi odakle ti informacija da haplogrupa I2a1b1 - M359.2/P41.2, odnosno I2a1b-M423 ili I2a1b3 – L621/S392, potiče iz Poljske, oko reke Visle? Ko to tvrdi? Osim toga, prema Nordtvedtovom stablu, I2a1b-M423 je nastala pre oko 15.000 godina, a grana I2a1b3 - L621/S392 je nastala sigurno pre više od 6.000, jer se tada od nje odvojio Disles. Reci mi gde su tada bili Hrvati?

Dalje kažeš da je I2a1b3a - L147.2 naslednik tog haplotipa na Balkanu. Prvo, ovaj haplotip nije karakterističan samo za balkanske Slovene, već ga ima kod svih Slovena. Drugo, nije nastao na Balkanu, već negde severnije, Nordtvedt pretpostavlja da je to negde u tradicionalnoj postojbini Slovena u Pripjatskim močvarama. Ni on, niti iko drugi, to zasigurno ne zna, niti ima bilo čega što bi to moglo potvrditi. Genetsku raznovrsnost haplogrupe I2a1b3a - L147.2 računali su Belorus Vadim Verenič, glavni administrator DNA projekta za prostore bivše Velike kneževine Litvanije, i naš Nevski, na portalu poreklo.rs (sedištu Srpskog DNK projekta). I jedan i drugi su dobili da je najveća raznovrsnost na području Češke, što sugeriše da je izvor haplogrupe I2a1b3a - L147.2 verovatno negde na tom prostoru. Ako se uzme u obzir da je I2a1b3a - L147.2 star negde 2.500 godina, onda se ni on ne može povezati niti sa Srbima, niti sa Hrvatima, jer ih tada nije ni bilo, makar ne na tom prostoru, a pitawe je da li se direktno može povezati i sa Slovenima, jer nije izvesno ni da su Sloveni kao takvi postojali u to vreme. Ono sa čim se može povezati I2a1b3a - L147.2 je možda neko pleme sa tih prostora koje je kasnije učestvovalo u etnogenezi Slovena, arheolozi sugerišu koje je to pleme, ali to je već nova priča, za drugu priliku. Nadam se da sam bio jasan i da će ti se stvari sada malo razjasniti."

[Dema]

Its under I2a-CTS10228, classic Slavic


where have you test

[Antidemokrat]

New Age Serb.

Probably mutated from Serb to Srbenda.

xD


Šalim se

Evo šta pišu na jednom forumu

"U svakom slučaju, reci mi odakle ti informacija da haplogrupa I2a1b1 - M359.2/P41.2, odnosno I2a1b-M423 ili I2a1b3 – L621/S392, potiče iz Poljske, oko reke Visle? Ko to tvrdi? Osim toga, prema Nordtvedtovom stablu, I2a1b-M423 je nastala pre oko 15.000 godina, a grana I2a1b3 - L621/S392 je nastala sigurno pre više od 6.000, jer se tada od nje odvojio Disles. Reci mi gde su tada bili Hrvati?

Dalje kažeš da je I2a1b3a - L147.2 naslednik tog haplotipa na Balkanu. Prvo, ovaj haplotip nije karakterističan samo za balkanske Slovene, već ga ima kod svih Slovena. Drugo, nije nastao na Balkanu, već negde severnije, Nordtvedt pretpostavlja da je to negde u tradicionalnoj postojbini Slovena u Pripjatskim močvarama. Ni on, niti iko drugi, to zasigurno ne zna, niti ima bilo čega što bi to moglo potvrditi. Genetsku raznovrsnost haplogrupe I2a1b3a - L147.2 računali su Belorus Vadim Verenič, glavni administrator DNA projekta za prostore bivše Velike kneževine Litvanije, i naš Nevski, na portalu poreklo.rs (sedištu Srpskog DNK projekta). I jedan i drugi su dobili da je najveća raznovrsnost na području Češke, što sugeriše da je izvor haplogrupe I2a1b3a - L147.2 verovatno negde na tom prostoru. Ako se uzme u obzir da je I2a1b3a - L147.2 star negde 2.500 godina, onda se ni on ne može povezati niti sa Srbima, niti sa Hrvatima, jer ih tada nije ni bilo, makar ne na tom prostoru, a pitawe je da li se direktno može povezati i sa Slovenima, jer nije izvesno ni da su Sloveni kao takvi postojali u to vreme. Ono sa čim se može povezati I2a1b3a - L147.2 je možda neko pleme sa tih prostora koje je kasnije učestvovalo u etnogenezi Slovena, arheolozi sugerišu koje je to pleme, ali to je već nova priča, za drugu priliku. Nadam se da sam bio jasan i da će ti se stvari sada malo razjasniti."


Hahahahaha

Samo Srbovanje Srbina Spasava :D

Zahvaljujem za ovo, relativno skoro sam počeo da se zanimam za genetiku pa ne znam odakle da počnem

[Antidemokrat]

Its under I2a-CTS10228, classic Slavic


where have you test

In a laboratory in Belgrade, http://dnk.rs/

[Dema]

From Eupedia:


Haplogroup I2a1b-L621

This branch is found overwhelmingly in Slavic countries. Its maximum frequencies are observed among the Dinaric Slavs (Slovenes, Croats, Bosniaks, Serbs, Montenegrins and Macedonians) as well as in Bulgaria, Romania, Moldavia, western Ukraine and Belarus. It is also common to a lower extent in Albania, Greece, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, and south-western Russia. I2-L621 (L147.2+) is also known as as I2a-Din (for Dinaric).

The high concentration of I2a1b-L621 in north-east Romania, Moldova and central Ukraine reminds of the maximum spread of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture (4800-3000 BCE). No Y-DNA sample from this culture has been tested to date, but as it evolved as an offshoot from the Starčevo–Kőrös–Criş culture, it is likely that I2a was one of its main paternal lineages, and a founder effect could have increased considerably its frequency. The Cucuteni-Trypillian culture was the most advanced Neolithic culture in Europe before the Indo-European invasions in the Bronze Age and seems to have had intensive contacts with the Steppe culture before the expansion of Yamna to the Balkans and Central Europe (see histories of R1a and R1b). From 3500 BCE, at the onset of the Yamna period in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, the Cucuteni-Trypillian people started expanding east into the steppe of what is now western Ukraine, leaving their towns (the largest in the world at the time), and adopting an increasingly nomadic lifestyle like their Yamna neighbours. It can easily be imagined that Cucuteni-Trypillian people became assimilated by the Yamna neighbours and that they spread as a minority lineage alongside haplogroups R1a and R1b as they advanced toward the Baltic with the Corded Ware expansion. Alternatively, I2-L621 lineages could have lived in relative isolation from the mainstream Proto-Indo-European society somewhere around Ukraine, Poland or Belarus, then as the centuries and millennia passed, would have blended with the predominantly R1a populations around them. The resulting amalgam would have become the ancestors of the Proto-Slavs.

Nowadays, I2a1 is five to ten times more common than G2a in Southeast Europe, while during the Neolithic period G2a was approximately four times more common. What can explain this complete reversal? At one point in history, I2a1 lineages seem to have benefited from being on the winning side. Apart from a minor boost from (hypothetically) joining Yamna's westward expansion to Europe, the principal determining event that allowed I2a1b-L621 to become a major Eastern European lineage was probably the Slavic migrations from the 6th to the 9th century CE. Most modern Eastern Europeans belonging to I2a1b fit into the L147.2 (aka CTS10228, CTS2180 or Y3111) subclade, which is thought to have arisen 5,600 years ago (just before the Yamna period and the Trypillian expansion into the steppe), but has a TMRCA of only 2,300 years according to Yfull. The minority of I2a1b-L621 individuals negative for L147.2 are all found around eastern Poland, Belarus and western Ukraine, suggesting that this is where this lineage survived since the Chalcolithic. The I2a1b-L147.2 subclade seems to have expanded very fast from 1900 years ago, which is concordant with the timing of the Slavic ethnogenesis, considering that it takes a few centuries before one man can have enough male descendants to start having an impact at the scale of a population. This I2-L147.2 ancestor would have such an impact on the burgeoning Early Slavic population, still small 2,300 years ago, but booming.

After the Germanic tribes living in eastern Germany and Poland, like the Goths, the Vandals and the Burgundians, invaded the Roman Empire, the Slavs living further east filled the vacuum. Following the collapse of the Western Roman Empire in 476, the Slavs moved in the Dinaric Alps and the Balkans. By the 9th century, the Slavs occupied all modern Slavic-speaking territories, apart from the eastern Balkans under the control of the Turkic-speaking Bulgars.

Nowadays northern Slavic countries have between 9% (Poland, Czech republic) and 21% (Ukraine) of I2a-L621, while southern Slavs have between 20% (Bulgaria) and 50% (Bosnia). The higher percentage of I2a-Din in the south is probably just due to another founder effect due to the fact that the South Slavs originated in western Ukraine, where the ratio of I2a to R1a was higher. Virtually all Dinaric I2a falls under the L147.2 branch, and the majority to the S17250 ramification, who descend from a common patrilinear ancestor who lived only 1,800 years ago.



https://i.imgur.com/W4PBi4Y.png

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml

https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-L621/



Also, Serbs will most likely recruit you to join their project so they will explain everything to you...

[Antidemokrat]

From Eupedia:


Haplogroup I2a1b-L621

This branch is found overwhelmingly in Slavic countries. Its maximum frequencies are observed among the Dinaric Slavs (Slovenes, Croats, Bosniaks, Serbs, Montenegrins and Macedonians) as well as in Bulgaria, Romania, Moldavia, western Ukraine and Belarus. It is also common to a lower extent in Albania, Greece, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, and south-western Russia. I2-L621 (L147.2+) is also known as as I2a-Din (for Dinaric).

The high concentration of I2a1b-L621 in north-east Romania, Moldova and central Ukraine reminds of the maximum spread of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture (4800-3000 BCE). No Y-DNA sample from this culture has been tested to date, but as it evolved as an offshoot from the Starčevo–Kőrös–Criş culture, it is likely that I2a was one of its main paternal lineages, and a founder effect could have increased considerably its frequency. The Cucuteni-Trypillian culture was the most advanced Neolithic culture in Europe before the Indo-European invasions in the Bronze Age and seems to have had intensive contacts with the Steppe culture before the expansion of Yamna to the Balkans and Central Europe (see histories of R1a and R1b). From 3500 BCE, at the onset of the Yamna period in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, the Cucuteni-Trypillian people started expanding east into the steppe of what is now western Ukraine, leaving their towns (the largest in the world at the time), and adopting an increasingly nomadic lifestyle like their Yamna neighbours. It can easily be imagined that Cucuteni-Trypillian people became assimilated by the Yamna neighbours and that they spread as a minority lineage alongside haplogroups R1a and R1b as they advanced toward the Baltic with the Corded Ware expansion. Alternatively, I2-L621 lineages could have lived in relative isolation from the mainstream Proto-Indo-European society somewhere around Ukraine, Poland or Belarus, then as the centuries and millennia passed, would have blended with the predominantly R1a populations around them. The resulting amalgam would have become the ancestors of the Proto-Slavs.

Nowadays, I2a1 is five to ten times more common than G2a in Southeast Europe, while during the Neolithic period G2a was approximately four times more common. What can explain this complete reversal? At one point in history, I2a1 lineages seem to have benefited from being on the winning side. Apart from a minor boost from (hypothetically) joining Yamna's westward expansion to Europe, the principal determining event that allowed I2a1b-L621 to become a major Eastern European lineage was probably the Slavic migrations from the 6th to the 9th century CE. Most modern Eastern Europeans belonging to I2a1b fit into the L147.2 (aka CTS10228, CTS2180 or Y3111) subclade, which is thought to have arisen 5,600 years ago (just before the Yamna period and the Trypillian expansion into the steppe), but has a TMRCA of only 2,300 years according to Yfull. The minority of I2a1b-L621 individuals negative for L147.2 are all found around eastern Poland, Belarus and western Ukraine, suggesting that this is where this lineage survived since the Chalcolithic. The I2a1b-L147.2 subclade seems to have expanded very fast from 1900 years ago, which is concordant with the timing of the Slavic ethnogenesis, considering that it takes a few centuries before one man can have enough male descendants to start having an impact at the scale of a population. This I2-L147.2 ancestor would have such an impact on the burgeoning Early Slavic population, still small 2,300 years ago, but booming.

After the Germanic tribes living in eastern Germany and Poland, like the Goths, the Vandals and the Burgundians, invaded the Roman Empire, the Slavs living further east filled the vacuum. Following the collapse of the Western Roman Empire in 476, the Slavs moved in the Dinaric Alps and the Balkans. By the 9th century, the Slavs occupied all modern Slavic-speaking territories, apart from the eastern Balkans under the control of the Turkic-speaking Bulgars.

Nowadays northern Slavic countries have between 9% (Poland, Czech republic) and 21% (Ukraine) of I2a-L621, while southern Slavs have between 20% (Bulgaria) and 50% (Bosnia). The higher percentage of I2a-Din in the south is probably just due to another founder effect due to the fact that the South Slavs originated in western Ukraine, where the ratio of I2a to R1a was higher. Virtually all Dinaric I2a falls under the L147.2 branch, and the majority to the S17250 ramification, who descend from a common patrilinear ancestor who lived only 1,800 years ago.



https://i.imgur.com/W4PBi4Y.png

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml

https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-L621/



Also, Serbs will most likely recruit you to join their project so they will explain everything to you...


That's some useful information, thanks for sharing that with me