R1a-M417 in Copper Age Alexandria

[Peterski]

Published yesterday, the oldest R1a-M417 so far (M417 is ancestral to all Indo-European R1a):

http://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/09/19/135616

http://www.biorxiv.org/highwire/filestream/57903/field_highwire_adjunct_files/1/135616-2.xlsx

I6561, Alexandria, Ukraine, 3500 BC, Y DNA R1a1a1 M417, mtDNA H2a1a.

Alexandria (1 individual). An Eneolithic cemetery of the Sredny Stog II culture was excavated by D. Telegin in 1955-1957 near the village of Alexandria, Kupyansk district, Kharkov region on the left bank of the river Oskol.105 A total of 33 individuals were recovered.106 Based on craniometric analysis (I.Potekhina 1999) it was suggested that the Eneolithic inhabitants of Alexandria were not homogeneous and resulted from admixture of local Neolithic hunter-gatherers and early farmers, possibly Trypillian groups.107 We report genetic data from one individual: I6561.

Autosomally he could be similar to the later Central European Corded Ware culture individuals because it seems, that he already had Neolithic Farmer admixture (from Trypillian culture).

His mtDNA probably points also to the presence of CHG admixture.

[Peterski]

To all followers of "R1a out of India" and "R1a hunter-gatherer leftovers" theories:

https://media.tenor.com/images/b308fda88f53eed88f16edcd661049f0/tenor.gif

[ЛыSSый]

But were they styhians or sarmatians? I'm interesting because i want to know which of group of turk-like brown subhumans will pretend on thise bones.

[The Sun King]

Haplogroup G started modern civilization with the invention of agriculture. Indo European’s just built on a previous society already in place.

[Lucas]

To all followers of "R1a out of India" and "R1a hunter-gatherer leftovers" theories:

https://media.tenor.com/images/b308fda88f53eed88f16edcd661049f0/tenor.gif

Of course HG leftover but form Ukraine:)
Older sample is from mesolithic Vasilevka in the same paper:))))

[Lucas]

I sorted available R1a from the table.






I1819

8825-8561 calBCE (9420±50 BP, Poz-81128)

Ukraine_Mesolithic
Vasil'evka
Ukraine
M
U5b2
R1a


I0061
6773-5886 BCE
Karelia_HG

Yuzhnyy Oleni Ostrov, Karelia
Russia
M
C1
R1a1a1


I5876
5500-4800 BCE
Ukraine_Neolithic
Dereivka
Ukraine
M
U5a2a
R1a


I0433
5200-4000 BCE
Samara_Eneolithic
Khvalynsk, Volga River, Samara
Russia
M
U5a1i
R1a1


I6561
5000-3500 BCE
Ukraine_Eneolithic
Alexandria
Ukraine
M
H2a1a
R1a1a1


I0247
375-203 calBCE (2220±30 BP, Beta-392493)
Scythian_IA
Nadezhdinka, Volga Steppes, Samara
Russia
M
G2a4
R1a1a1b2a2a


I0432
2925-2491 calBCE (4180±84 BP, AA-12569)
Poltavka_outlier
Sok River, Samara
Russia
M
U5a1c
R1a1a1b2a


RISE61.SG
2851-2492 calBCE (4071±27 BP, OxA-28296)
Nordic_MN_B.SG
Kyndelöse
Denmark
M
J1c4
R1a1a1


RISE446.SG
2829-2465 calBCE (4015±38 BP, UBA-27950)
Corded_Ware_Germany.SG
Bergrheinfeld
Germany
M
U5b1c2
R1a1a1


RISE94.SG
2621-2472 calBCE (4025±30 BP, OxA-29033)
BattleAxe_Sweden.SG
Viby
Sweden
M
K1a2a
R1a1a1


I0104
2559-2296 calBCE (3927±37 BP, MAMS-21487)
Corded_Ware_Germany
Esperstedt
Germany
M
U4b1a1a1
R1a1a1


I1532
2500-2050 BCE
Corded_Ware_Germany
Esperstedt
Germany
M
J1c2e
R1a1a


I1544
2500-2050 BCE
Corded_Ware_Germany
Esperstedt
Germany
M
K2b2
R1a


I1540
2500-2050 BCE
Corded_Ware_Germany
Esperstedt
Germany
M
J1c5
R1a1


I1538
2500-2050 BCE
Corded_Ware_Germany
Esperstedt
Germany
M
J1c5
R1a


I1536
2500-2050 BCE
Corded_Ware_Germany
Esperstedt
Germany
M
U5a1g
R1a


RISE386.SG
2298-2045 calBCE (3775±34 BP, OxA-30991)
Sintashta_MBA_RISE.SG
Bulanovo
Russia
M
J1c1b1a
R1a


I0419
2200-1900 BCE
Potapovka
Utyevka, Samara River, Samara
Russia
M
U2e1h
R1a1a1b


RISE392.SG
2126-1896 calBCE (3626±33 BP, OxA-30999)
Sintashta_MBA_RISE.SG
Stepnoe Cemetery
Russia
M
J2b1a2a
R1a1a1b


I0430
1850-1600 BCE
Srubnaya
Spiridonovka II, Samara River, Samara
Russia
M
H3g
R1a1a1b2a2a


I0424
1850-1600 BCE
Srubnaya
Uvarovka, Samara River, Samara
Russia
M
T2b4
R1a1a1b2


I0423
1850-1200 BCE
Srubnaya_Outlier
Barinovka, Samara River, Samara
Russia
M
J2b1a2a
R1a1a1b2


I0232
1850-1200 BCE
Srubnaya
Novoselki, Northern Forest, Samara
Russia
M
U5a1f2
R1a1a1b2


I0361
1850-1200 BCE
Srubnaya
Spiridonovka IV, Samara River, Samara
Russia
M
H5b
R1a1a


I2163
1750-1625 calBCE (3400±30 BP, Beta-432796)
Bulgaria_MLBA
Merichleri, Kairyaka necropolis
Bulgaria
M
U5a2
R1a1a1b2


RISE512.SG
1446-1298 calBCE (3119±27 BP, OxA-31217)
Andronovo.SG
Kytmanovo
Russia
M
U2e1
R1a1a1


I0099
1193-979 calBCE (2889±30 BP, MAMS-21484)
Halberstadt_LBA
Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld
Germany
M
H23
R1a1a1b1a2






Still Karelianhs Hg are older than copper R1a from Ukraine:)

[Rethel]

Haplogroup G started modern civilization with the invention of agriculture.

Eee... our two main forefathers were agriculturalists, so, it is not
an achievment, because we all started as farmers truely saying.


Indo European’s just built on a previous society already in place.

Even if, then IEs did it - others who presumply had "greatest" achievemants, didn't.

[Rethel]

Of course HG leftover but form Ukraine:)
Older sample is from mesolithic Vasilevka in the same paper:))))

Some anti-IE people probably think, that if someone is a
hunter, he cannot be an Indoeuropean. Interesting why?
Does non-hunting make people indoeuropean? :scratch:


Still Karelianhs Hg are older than copper R1a from Ukraine:)

He was an Etruscian from Archangielsk speaking pure russian called sanscrit :)


Still Karelianhs Hg are older than copper R1a from Ukraine:)

Ca you add all R1 with b, but until/without IA?
(and even R2 if there are some)

[cosmoo]

To all followers of "R1a out of India" and "R1a hunter-gatherer leftovers" theories:

https://media.tenor.com/images/b308fda88f53eed88f16edcd661049f0/tenor.gif

Still lived outside of Europe in Palaeolithic.

By the way, I hope estimated age of M417 (3500 B.C.) is not true, because it would mean Indo-Europeans were massive cucks.

[Tschaikisten]

This is great result, it aproves 5500 ybp TMRCA of R1a-M417, and it makes M417 most incest SNP ever. :laugh:

Haplogroup G started modern civilization with the invention of agriculture. Indo European’s just built on a previous society already in place.
:thumb001:

[Turkminator]

May Tengri protect his Turkic R1 sons.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVZI_IRNvP0&list=PLxvpH3TPjI8naOAXeoM3ASAGXaCLC3Cl1

[Peterski]

Still lived outside of Europe in Palaeolithic.

By the way, I hope estimated age of M417 (3500 B.C.) is not true, because it would mean Indo-Europeans were massive cucks.
This is great result, it aproves 5500 ybp TMRCA of R1a-M417, and it makes M417 most incest SNP ever. :laugh:

:thumb001:

Paleolithic and Early Farmer "zombies" are never going to take back Alexandria from us!: :)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?50755-Members-of-the-Apricity-How-Do-You-Imagine-Them&p=4657166&viewfull=1#post4657166

[Tschaikisten]

Paleolithic and Early Farmer "zombies" are never going to take back Alexandria from us!: :)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?50755-Members-of-the-Apricity-How-Do-You-Imagine-Them&p=4657166&viewfull=1#post4657166

Who d fuck cares, we live in Dinaric Аlps where r1 boyz are in percents lower than 20%.

[Rethel]

By the way, I hope estimated age of M417 (3500 B.C.) is not true, because it would mean Indo-Europeans were massive cucks.

:confused:

[Rethel]

May Tengri protect his Turkic R1 sons.

Apage satanas!

[Turkminator]

Apage satanas!

Tengri est de nobis. Vivat Turcorum!

[Ülev]

May Tengri protect his Turkic R1 sons.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVZI_IRNvP0&list=PLxvpH3TPjI8naOAXeoM3ASAGXaCLC3Cl1

Tengri biz menemen ! Gök babamız bize yardım et bizi koru, doğru yolu tekrar bütün ırkımıza göster.

[Rethel]

Tengri est de nobis. Vivat Turcorum!

:puke:

[Megadorian]

Sometimes R1 feels like that annoying mosquito who will keep nagging you everywhere until you stomp it out

[The Sun King]

Eee... our two main forefathers were agriculturalists, so, it is not
an achievment, because we all started as farmers truely saying.



Even if, then IEs did it - others who presumply had "greatest" achievemants, didn't.


No you guys were not agriculturists. You are steppe invaders who brought Indo European language’s, which is something to be proud of your right in that. Your wrong however in assuming that civilization started or stems from that. It doesn’t. It stems from the invention of agriculture. That step put us out of a primitive hunter gatherer lifestyle.

[Rethel]

His mtDNA probably points also to the presence of CHG admixture.

So early, and still it didn't matter - neither mt, neither her au-appearience.

[Rethel]

But were they styhians or sarmatians?

Ykpc.


Your wrong however in assuming that civilization started or stems from that.

We do not think like that at all.
It is your own submission.


It doesn’t. It stems from the invention of agriculture. That step put us out of a primitive hunter gatherer lifestyle.

I allready said to you, that all people were farmers at the begining.
So it was not the invention of any particular group.

[The Sun King]

Ykpc.



We do not think like that at all.
It is your own submission.



I allready said to you, that all people were farmers at the begining.
So it was not the invention of any particular group.

Where do you get ( source please) we were all farmers? We were not. It was an invention. From the Middle East who came to Europe at a time when Europe’s population were Hunter Gatherers and not farmers.

[The Sun King]

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml


There’s a map on this page that will show what I’m talking about.

[Rethel]

Where do you get ( source please) we were all farmers? We were not. It was an invention. From the Middle East who came to Europe at a time when Europe’s population were Hunter Gatherers and not farmers.

Yes, we were all, as our forefathers were.
Some just stopped for a while to do this job,
because of a different enviroment which they
founded in the new place of living.

In the Book of Genesis stood written:

"Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden
of Eʹden to cultivate it and to take care of it.

And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree
concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the
ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life.
It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field.
In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out
of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Abel became a shepherd of the flock, but Cain became a cultivator of the ground.
After some time, Cain brought some fruits of the land as an offering to Jehovah.

Now Noah started off as a farmer, and he planted a vineyard.

As we are all descendants of Adam and Noah, then we all were farmers, especially,
that at babel times, we all had to grow food beofre we were scattered across the earth.

[blogen]

To all followers of "R1a out of India" and "R1a hunter-gatherer leftovers" theories:

One. This lonely migrant isn't enough for even a significant drifting. :D

Pls! R1a is mesolithic Eastern European. The R1a Slavs are mostly assimilated HG peoples, live with it!

[The Sun King]

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/8000BCE-haplogroups.png

[War Chef]

To put into perspective :

https://i.imgur.com/UCkyCTW.jpg

[zarzian]

Davidski's minions are at large, desperately trying claim m417 as somehow being originally Slavic, when Slavic is only a thousand years old. The oldest m417 comes from way east in the Altai meaning it is an eastern haplogroup, more likely from Central Asia, so there goes your last desperate attempt to try to connect yourselves to PIE , which was only based on an arbitrarily Geographical conotation. All this proves is that Slavs are rape products of a few R1a men from Asia subduing high inhibition low T baltic and Eastern Euro hunter gatherers.

[Kamal900]

All this proves is that Slavs are rape products of a few R1a men from Asia subduing high inhibition low T baltic and Eastern Euro hunter gatherers.

Which is also true for the Turkic peoples of Siberia and Mongolia as well. Ouch. Never knew the R1a men were that Alpha, lol.

[Peterski]

The oldest m417 comes from way east in the Altai meaning it is an eastern haplogroup, more likely from Central Asia, so there goes your last desperate attempt to try to connect yourselves to PIE , which was only based on an arbitrarily Geographical conotation. All this proves is that Slavs are rape products of a few R1a men from Asia subduing high inhibition low T baltic and Eastern Euro hunter gatherers.

Stop lying, the oldest R1a-M417 is from Ukraine, as is the oldest R1a. And the oldest R1a-Z93 is from Russia:

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php?t=13911&p=1318959&viewfull=1#post1318959

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Je9MSxLd1GY/WcuzFWCF86I/AAAAAAAAGHY/1GJk6vQXAz8PHpEScVs4tIlyO511e2oCgCLcBGAs/s1600/R1a-M417_The_Beast.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4JPMYHTZis

[Peterski]

Map showing the location of Alexandria within the Pontic-Caspian Steppe:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/57/33/3c/57333c0609d0e31b273fc437db3a83ab.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/57/33/3c/57333c0609d0e31b273fc437db3a83ab.jpg

[Rethel]

Map showing the location of Alexandria within the Pontic-Caspian Steppe:

No dobra, but Alexandria's finding is only one subclade.
There are still basal a and b found far norther than this,
and even westiest and eastiest. We still are in general
east Europe as a core. a-M417 was one guy among the
hundrets of thousands of Indoeuropeans who did allready
live in the whole eastern part of Europe...

[Rethel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4JPMYHTZis

6:27 - autosomalism destroyed :)
They belived - do you too?

Btw, interesting thing here is that
two tribal names are of PIE origin:

Teutons - tribesmen, współplemieńcy
and Aryans - kinsmen, krewniacy.

So, to be an Aryan you have to be a descendant
of Aryan forefather, not only a speaker or a looker :laugh:

A Polish builder - a typical Protoprotoindoeuropean? :)

Btw, is he nasz? https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRjzxtiA4ARsJa1G-gx87LDl9R_6XCzFCrvX52Ju1TQMG4UahcB

[Ülev]

unban Rethel!

[Leto]

We ruled them Egypsies! :cool:

[Ülev]

unban Rethel!

unban him!

[Dragoon]

This makes sense. So R1a M417 predates Slavic language but was input towards Slavs.

then younger is M458
then L260 (around 1000BC?)

early proto Slavic (1000BC!)
middle proto Slavic (1000BC-1AD)
late proto Slavic (1-600AD)

or

pre/proto Slavic (1500BC to 300AD)
early Slavic (300-600AD)
middle Slavic (600-800AD)
common Slavic (800-1000AD)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Slavic

[Peterski]

I have uploaded him to GEDmatch:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?277289-Ancestor-of-R1a-men-on-GEDmatch

[Arhat]

Stop lying, the oldest R1a-M417 is from Ukraine, as is the oldest R1a. And the oldest R1a-Z93 is from Russia:

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php?t=13911&p=1318959&viewfull=1#post1318959

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Je9MSxLd1GY/WcuzFWCF86I/AAAAAAAAGHY/1GJk6vQXAz8PHpEScVs4tIlyO511e2oCgCLcBGAs/s1600/R1a-M417_The_Beast.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4JPMYHTZis

He is now pretty much confirmed as Y3 what makes him ancestral to Indian/Indo-Aryan R1a-L657.

[Token]

Very Proto-Indo-European