First of October 2017, Catalunya independence referendum.

[Laberia]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/Flag_of_Catalonia.svg

[Laberia]

The regional Government of Catalonia has set a referendum on Catalan independence for 1 October 2017.[1] This referendum was first called for in June 2017 and was approved by the Catalan parliament in a session on 6th September 2017 along with a law which states that independence would be binding with a simple majority, without requiring a minimum turnout.[2] Opposition parties have called on their voters to boycott the vote, except Podemos who supported participation and Catalunya Sí que es Pot who chose to abstain.[citation needed] According to the Spanish Constitution, the referendum is illegal.[3] It was suspended by the Constitutional Court on 7 September 2017, with the Catalan government stating the court order was not valid for Catalonia and proceeding to gather the support of 750[4] of 948 municipalities of Catalonia,[5][6][7] including a partial support by Barcelona.[8] This led to a constitutional crisis in Spain.

The Government of Spain opposes any Catalan self-determination referendum,[9][10] maintaining that the Spanish Constitution does not allow for a vote on the independence of any Spanish region while also deeming it illegal without its consent;[11][12] an interpretation also favoured by the Catalan Statutory Guarantees Council.[13] On the other hand, the Catalan government invokes the right to self-determination for calling the referendum. So far, the Catalan government has tried but failed to get international support; in particular, Spain’s European partners see Catalonia’s status as a strictly internal matter.[14]

Following a constitutionality check demanded by the Spanish government, the Constitutional Court of Spain annulled the resolution emanated by the Parliament of Catalonia to hold such a vote.[15] The Government of Catalonia, though, maintains that the vote will still be held; in this regard, on 9 June 2017, Puigdemont announced it for 1 October.[1]

The Catalan government had aimed to thwart legal action on behalf of the Spanish government by rushing a referendum law through its own parliament, by simple majority, in September[14] declaring that it would then follow a "Catalan-only" legality (as opposed to the general Spanish one). Spain’s deputy prime minister, Soraya Saenz de Santamaria, had notified the Catalan government in advance that the state would strike down the referendum law right after it was passed.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence_referendum,_2017)

EDIT
Poll added, vote people.

[Laberia]

Spain crisis: 'stop this radicalism and disobedience,' PM tells Catalan leaders

Mariano Rajoy says region must stop ‘escalating’ independence standoff after thousands protest at police raids government buildings in Barcelona


Sam Jones in Madrid and Stephen Burgen in Barcelona

Thursday 21 September 2017 03.51 BST
First published on Wednesday 20 September 2017 09.02 BST

Spain’s prime minister has called on Catalan separatist leaders to end their “escalation” as several thousand people took to the streets of Barcelona to protest at Madrid’s attempts to stop a banned referendum on independence.

“Stop this escalation of radicalism and disobedience once and for all,” Mariano Rajoy said in a televised statement on Wednesday night as protesters remained in the centre of the city after a day-long demonstration.

Catalonia’s president earlier accused the Spanish government of suspending the region’s autonomy after police intensified efforts to stop a vote on independence that has sparked one of the worst political crises since Spain’s return to democracy four decades ago.

Spanish Guardia Civil officers raided a dozen Catalan regional government offices and arrested 14 senior officials on Wednesday as part of an operation to stop the referendum from taking place on 1 October.

Carles Puigdemont, the head of Catalonia’s pro-sovereignty government, described the raids as a “a co-ordinated police assault” that showed that Madrid “has de facto suspended self-government and applied a de facto state of emergency” in Catalonia.
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/c906dae605e07c6d270fc073856bc06e60c44550/0_94_3500_2101/master/3500.jpg?w=1125&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&
He also appeared to draw a parallel between the raids and the repression and abuses of the Franco dictatorship, tweeting: “We will not accept a return to the darkest times. The government is in favour of liberty and democracy.”

Speaking after an emergency ministerial meeting, Puigdemont vowed the poll would go ahead.

“We reaffirm our peaceful response,” he said. “The Spanish government has crossed a red line and become a democratic disgrace.”

The mayor of Barcelona, Ada Colau, called the raids “a democratic scandal” and said Catalans would defend their institutions.
Tensions between Madrid and Barcelona have escalated rapidly over recent days as the government of the Spanish prime minister, Mariano Rajoy, attempts to make good its promise to stop the vote.

On Wednesday morning, Spain’s interior ministry announced it was cancelling leave for all the Guardia Civil and national police officers tasked with preventing the referendum. In a statement, it said the affected officers would have to be available between 20 September and 5 October, but added the period could be extended if necessary.

in his TV address, Rajoy called on Catalonia’s regional leaders to cancel the referendum on the grounds that it goes against Spain’s laws. “Don’t go ahead. Go back to the law and democracy. This referendum is a chimera,” he said.
The raids come a day after the Guardia Civil confiscated referendum documents from the offices of a private delivery firm in the Catalan city of Terrassa. More than 1.5m referendum leaflets and posters have also been seized.

The Catalan high court said that police acting on a judge’s orders had searched 42 premises on Wednesday – including six regional government offices – adding that 20 people were being investigated for alleged disobedience, abuse of power and embezzlement related to the referendum.

The regional government confirmed that Josep Maria Jové, secretary general of economic affairs and an aide to the Catalan vice-president, and Lluis Salvado, the secretary of taxation, were among those arrested.

The Spanish interior ministry said that police had confiscated nearly 10m ballot papers. Polling station signs and documents for electoral officers were also seized during a raid on a warehouse in a small town outside Barcelona.
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/edbc940618be573a40c983f8fad3d4a3725a1b9c/87_451_3730_2238/master/3730.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&
The Catalan president, Carles Puigdemont. Photograph: Andreu Dalmau/EPA

As news of the arrests emerged, a crowd began to gather outside the finance ministry, one of the targets of the raids. By mid morning the crowd had swelled to more than 2,000 people blocking Gran Via, one of Barcelona’s principal thoroughfares.

By late afternoon, under the clatter of surveillance helicopters and with a heavy police presence, the angry but peaceful rally had grown to some 5,000, with hundreds more people joining as they finished work or got out of school.

The crowd, breaking into the Catalan national anthem and waving placards reading “We are voting to be free,” began by chanting “No tinc por” (I’m not afraid) – the slogan used in response to last month’s terrorist attacks in the city.

But the chant was soon replaced by a new cry: “Occupation forces out!”

Smaller demonstrations were being held in other parts of the city, blocking major roads and causing traffic chaos. The mood was tense and very different from the party atmosphere at the million-strong pro-independence rally a little over a week ago.

Catalonia is mainly policed by the local Mossos d’Esquadra. The paramilitary Guardia Civil, strongly associated in some people’s minds with the fascist dictatorship, is rarely seen in the region.

There were steel barriers and a heavy police presence outside the Palau de la Generalitat, the seat of the Catalan government, on Wednesday. Outside the finance ministry, Joan Tardà, a Catalan MP, appealed for calm.

“They’re trying to derail us,” he told the crowd. “Our strength lies in being resolute, but in a civilised and peaceful manner.”
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/4b3153bec79dc2b73773a96a7c2f7c9fec776eee/0_101_4284_2570/master/4284.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&
Catalan police officers try to disperse protesters in Barcelona Photograph: Pau Barrena/AFP/Getty Images
Rajoy’s government argues that any referendum on Catalan independence would be illegal because the country’s 1978 constitution makes no provision for a vote on self-determination.
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The Spanish constitutional court, which has suspended the referendum law pushed through the Catalan parliament earlier this month, is looking into whether the law breaches the constitution.

Speaking on Wednesday morning, the prime minister defended the government’s actions, saying Puigdemont and his supporters were trying to “eliminate the constitution” and were ignoring the law.

“Logically, the state has to react,” he said. “There is no democratic state in the world that would accept what these people are trying to do. They’ve been warned and they know the referendum can’t take place.”

The raids signal a significant escalation of Madrid’s efforts to stop the vote from proceeding – as do remarks from the Spanish foreign minister, who has accused some separatists of using a “Nazi” approach to intimidate Catalan mayors opposed to secession.

“Referendums are a weapon of choice of dictators,” said Alfonso Dastis in an interview with Bloomberg in New York on Tuesday. “These people actually are taking some Nazi attitudes because they are putting up posters with the faces of mayors who are resisting their call to participate in this charade.

“A referendum isn’t the same as a democracy. Gen Franco organised two referendums.”

Spain’s finance ministry has also launched a crackdown on the regional government’s finances, limiting new credit and requiring central supervision for payment of non-essential services.

Although more than 70% of Catalonia’s 7.5 million people are in favour of a referendum, surveys suggest they are almost evenly split on the issue of independence.

A survey two months ago showed 49.4% of Catalans were against independence while 41.1% were in favour.

More than 80% of participants opted for independence in a symbolic poll three years ago – although only 2.3 million of Catalonia’s 5.4 million eligible voters took part.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/20/spain-guardia-civil-raid-catalan-government-hq-referendum-row

[Laberia]

Europe
The Latest: Spain’s PM warns Catalan officials to drop vote

By Associated Press September 20 at 3:55 PM

MADRID — The Latest on independence efforts in Spain’s Catalonia region (all times local):

9:30 p.m.
Spain’s prime minister is warning Catalan leaders of “greater harm” if they don’t drop plans for an independence referendum that national authorities consider illegal.

Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said in a televised statement on Wednesday night that holding the Oct. 1 vote in violation of the Spanish Constitution is a “totalitarian act.”

Rajoy said. “Disobedience of the law by a part of the political power is the opposite of democracy.”

His remarks came as thousands of people remained in the streets of Catalonia’s capital, Barcelona, to protest the government’s intensifying efforts to stop the referendum.

Police arrested a dozen regional officials and seized 10 million ballot papers on Wednesday.

Addressing Catalan officials, the prime minister said: “If you care about the tranquility of most Catalans, give up this escalation of radicalism and disobedience.”

He warned: “You are on time to avoid a greater harm.”
___

7:45 p.m.

Around 500 people are marching in central Madrid to support the Catalonia region’s bid to hold a referendum on independence from Spain and criticizing the government for launching a crackdown to stop the vote.

The protest in Madrid’s Sol Square mirrored those in Barcelona and other Catalan cities that brought thousands to the streets on Wednesday following police raids and the first arrests so far of regional officials.

Spain’s Constitutional Court has suspended the vote as it assesses its legality.

Police watched protesters, including representatives of left-wing and nationalist parties, as they chanted slogans against the conservative government of Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy.

Police also disbanded a handful of right-wing protesters that showed up with Spanish flags to call for the country’s unity.

___

4:50 p.m.

Barcelona Football Club says it condemns anyone trying to halt Catalonia’s plan to hold a secession referendum next month.

The world-famous soccer club issued a statement Wednesday after Spanish authorities intensified a crackdown on the region’s preparations for an Oct. 1 vote that Spain says is illegal.

Regional authorities have vowed to go ahead with the vote despite the arrests on Wednesday of at least 12 regional officials and government workers.

In the statement, Barcelona says it “condemns any act that may impede the free exercise of these rights.”

The club also says it “will continue to support the will of the majority of Catalan people, and will do so in a civil, peaceful, and exemplary way.”

___

3:50 p.m.

Spain’s Interior Ministry says police have seized nearly 10 million ballot papers that Catalan regional authorities planned to use in the Oct. 1 independence referendum, which Spain says is illegal.

A ministry statement said police also confiscated polling station signs and documents for voting officials in a raid Wednesday on a warehouse in a small town outside Barcelona.

The raid came as part of an ongoing police and judicial operation by Spanish authorities to try to halt the referendum called by the pro-independence Catalan government.

Catalonia has about 5.5 million eligible voters. Polls consistently show the region’s inhabitants favor a referendum but are roughly evenly divided over independence from Spain.

___

2:10 p.m.

Catalan pro-independence supporters have scuffled with Spanish Civil Guard officers escorting a government official arrested as part of a crackdown by national authorities on Catalonia’s plans to hold a secession referendum.

The protesters tried to block the officers as they took Xavier Puig away from the headquarters of the region’s department of external affairs in downtown Barcelona. Puig, the IT manager in the department, was one of at least 12 officials arrested Wednesday in police raids.

The protesters tried to block a police vehicle and some scuffles ensued. There were no reports of arrests or injuries.

Several hundred people are protesting the arrests and shouting pro-independence slogans in different parts of Barcelona and other Catalan towns.

The National Catalan Assembly civic group — the driving force behind the secession push — is calling on residents to rally peacefully on the city’s Las Ramblas boulevard.

___

1:20 p.m.

Spain’s Interior Ministry says time off and vacation will be suspended for Civil Guard and National Police officers assigned to ensure that the Constitutional Court’s halting of Catalonia’s planned independence referendum is heeded.

A ministry statement said the measure will run initially from Wednesday until Oct. 5 — four days after the planned referendum, which Spain says is illegal and won’t be allowed.

The ministry said the measure would apply to those officers stationed in the northeastern region and those to be deployed there. It gave no details on the number of people involved.

___

1:10 p.m.

The leader of Catalonia says Spain is showing a “totalitarian attitude” with the arrests of Catalan officials and civil servants but is vowing to go ahead with an independence referendum despite legal warnings not to do so.

Carles Puigdemont appeared with members of his cabinet Wednesday following several arrests in an ongoing operation by Civil Guard agents. Those arrested include a top official managing the region’s economic affairs.

Puigdemont says the police operations are unlawful and are aimed at preventing Catalans from voting on Oct. 1.

The vote has been suspended by Spain’s Constitutional Court while judges consider the central government’s claims that it is illegal.

Puigdemont also says that the central authorities moves amount to a “de facto” suspension of Catalonia’s self-rule.

___

11:45 a.m.

Spain’s Finance Ministry says it has imposed further controls of the Catalan government’s finances to ensure no public money is used for a planned Oct. 1 vote on the region’s independence that Spain says violates the constitution.

Finance Minister Cristobal Montoro signed an order late Tuesday that limits new credit and requires central authorities’ supervision for every payment of non-essential services in the northeastern region of Catalonia. The decision came after Catalan officials failed to voluntarily agree to the controls.

With the latest measure, virtually all Catalan spending will be in the hands of Madrid. The finance ministry took over the direct payment of basic services such as education, health and civil servants’ salaries last week.

Regional officials have vowed to hold the referendum on Catalonia’s secession from Spain despite fierce opposition from the central government and a suspension order by the Constitutional Court.

The prosperous Catalonia region, whose capital is Barcelona, generates a fifth of Spain’s economy. The region’s 7.5 million inhabitants are nearly evenly divided over independence.

___

11:05 a.m.

News reports says Spanish police have arrested 12 people in raids on offices of the regional government of Catalonia as a crackdown intensifies on the region’s preparations for a secession vote that Spain says is illegal.

Spain’s Europa Press news agency and other media outlets said the raids Wednesday mostly targeted the region’s economic and foreign departments as Spanish authorities worked to halt all preparatory moves for the planned Oct. 1referendum.

Hundreds of people gathered to protest the raids and shout pro-independence slogans outside offices in the region’s capital, Barcelona.

The Catalan regional government confirmed Josep Maria Jove, secretary general of economic affairs, was among those arrested.

Police and judicial authorities would give no details on the operation, saying a judge has placed a secrecy order on it.

___

10:10 a.m.

World News Alerts

Breaking news from around the world.

The Catalan regional government says that a top official in the management of the region’s economic affairs has been arrested as a crackdown intensifies on preparations for a secession vote that Spanish authorities have suspended.

The arrest of Josep Maria Jove, secretary general of economic affairs and number two to the region’s vice president Oriol Junqueras, took place on Wednesday morning as agents of Spain’s Civil Guard searched the premises of the regional department of economy, a spokeswoman with the institution said.

A spokesman for Junqueras confirmed the arrest and said that other Catalan government premises were being searched by the agents. Both officials declined to be identified by name, following internal protocol.

The central government is waging myriad legal battles to halt the Oct. 1 referendum called by the pro-independence coalition ruling Catalonia, in northeastern Spain.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/the-latest-police-arrests-catalan-crackdown/2017/09/20/7f650ca4-9de3-11e7-b2a7-bc70b6f98089_story.html?utm_term=.aef7c164528d

[Laberia]

Separatist supporters mass outside Barcelona top court
21 SEPTEMBER 2017
Protesters gather outside Supreme Court in a show of support for next month's planned independence referendum.
Pro-independence supporters have gathered outside Barcelona's top court for a second consecutive day, protesting against the Spanish government's attempts to block a referendum on Catalonia's split from Spain.
The demonstrations began after Spanish authorities, which outlawed the vote scheduled for October 1, detained on Wednesday 14 regional officials and seized referendum materials, including some 10m ballot papers, in an unprecedented raid of regional government offices.

The protesters on Thursday packed the Barcelona boulevard connecting Arc de Triomf and Parc Ciutadella, two popular tourist attractions, waving signs reading "Stop dictatorship" and "We want to vote".

OPINION: Why Catalonia should be given a say on its future

"Certainly, the people here are saying they are not going anywhere," Al Jazeera's Karl Penhaul, reporting from the protest site in Catalonia's main city, said.

"They have been chanting slogans such as, 'The streets are ours', a clear determination that they think that one of the ways they can force through this referendum, despite the growing police action, is to try and mobilise, get out there and maintain a presence in these public spaces."

Among those detained was Josep Maria Jove, Catalonia's junior economy minister.

Penhaul said that two of the detained were released overnight, but the other 12 were "still facing possible charges of trying to organise and facilitate a referendum that the state prosecutors are calling illegal".

Acting under court orders, police also raided printers, newspaper offices and private delivery companies in a search for campaign literature, instruction manuals for manning voting stations and ballot boxes.

On Thursday, Catalan leaders acknowledged for the first time that plans to hold the referendum were now in doubt.

"It is obvious that we won't be able to vote as we would have liked," Oriol Junqueras, deputy head and economy minister of the regional government, told local television TV3.

"They have altered the rules," he said, adding, however, that he was convinced voters would still turn out in numbers.

OPINION: The case against Catalan secession

On Wednesday, Catalonia's President Carles Puigdemont said the government's actions imposed a "de facto" state of emergency and denounced the "totalitarian and undemocratic attitude of the Spanish state".

Later in the day, Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy denounced the referendum as undemocratic and called for Catalonia's pro-independence leaders to "stop this escalation of radicalism and disobedience once and for all" in a televised statement.

Spain's constitution grants the central government exclusive power to hold referendums.

Polls show about 40 percent of Catalans support independence although a majority want a referendum on the issue.

Source: News agencies

http://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/09/separatist-supporters-mass-barcelona-top-court-170921105242786.html

[Lluna Plena]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-Lw46vgYuY

[Laberia]

bump. Vote people.

[MinervaItalica]

This should be clear, i don't support secessionism but they seem really determined plus they have all the qualities to take care for themself. Let them split if they want.

Even if they won't be able to do it today, Catalans will always feel a different ethnicity compared to other Spaniards. They will probably vote again in the future if this fails so just Free Catalogna.

[Melki]

This referendum may be constitutionally illegal, nobody can deny that there's a problem in the Spanish house, unique in Europe. "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation. Every house or city divided against itself will not stand." (Matthew 12:22-28 - the last part was famously quoted by Abraham Lincoln).

[Sebastianus Rex]

bump. Vote people.

What for ? The referendum is for Catalan people, what do we have to do with it ?

[nightrider+]

I don't support the independence of Catalunya via a referendum. To arms, you pussies!

[Laberia]

What for ? The referendum is for Catalan people, what do we have to do with it ?

Don't vote.

[Laberia]

I don't support the independence of Catalunya via a referendum. To arms, you pussies!

No, no war. Peace and love and FREEDOM FOR CATALUNYA.

[Melki]

I remain neutral. Even though I support the right of peoples to self-determination, I keep in mind that Catalans have selfish motives: they know they are wealthy and want to abandon the sinking Spanish ship. Ireland was terribly poor compared to heavily industrialized England when they fought for independence from 1919 to 1921. To them, freedom mattered more than purchasing power.

[Laberia]

4 injured after shooting at protesters ahead of Catalonia referendum


Saturday 30/September/2017 - 09:18 PM

https://en.el-balad.com/upload/photo/news/235/1/600x338o/26.jpg?q=1
Ahmed Mohsin
At least 4 people were reported injured after unknown person opened fire at protesters in Catalonia، who rally at school، set to be a polling station، ahead of Sunday’s referendum.

Spanish local media said that the incident took place at one of the schools in the city Manlu، the protesters، who names themselves “Committee for the defense of Manuelo Referendum،” held a sit-in ahead of the anticipated referendum set for place tomorrow.

First، the attacker wounded three people and then shot another. Three of the wounded are members of the Committee for the defense of the referendum. They filed a complaint with the police Generalthat (government of Catalonia).

The protesters confirmed that the shooting incident will not affect their sit-in، and that they continue to stay at the school until the referendum.

https://en.el-balad.com/2351026

[Laberia]

At a polling station in Catalonia shooting occurred, there are victims

magictr | September 30, 2017 | News | 0 Comments

2017-09-30 19:11

At a polling station in Catalonia shooting occurred, there are victims
Manly the mayor called the incident a “fascist attack”.

https://sherbrooktimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/20b930779b4be904991f0dff7b8b0d3d.jpg

At a polling station in Catalonia, where the referendum will take place tomorrow, 30 September, unknown persons opened fire from a pneumatic gun and wounded at least 4 people.

It is reported naiz and publishes a photo of one of the victims, reports Rus.Media.

The incident took place at one of the schools in the city Manlu. Victims injured in the chest and neck.

First, the attacker wounded three people and then shot another who responded to the noise. Three of the wounded are members of the Committee for the defense of the referendum. They filed a complaint with the police Generalthat (government of Catalonia).

https://sherbrooktimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/6357a356e31b339cf4425fa0b1a7eac6.jpg

https://sherbrooktimes.com/at-a-polling-station-in-catalonia-shooting-occurred-there-are-victims/10820

[Dema]

This referendum may be constitutionally illegal, nobody can deny that there's a problem in the Spanish house, unique in Europe. "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation. Every house or city divided against itself will not stand." (Matthew 12:22-28 - the last part was famously quoted by Abraham Lincoln).

divide and rule, its what happening everywhere in a world, if you have fractions you are easy to take down, just i doubt that will happen in Spain...

[nightrider+]

4 injured after shooting at protesters ahead of Catalonia referendum


Well, I told you so. Either they fight like men, or hippies get raped by the Spanish state.

[EuropeanVlachSon]

Why the hell do they use force? Lol, they give them reasons to start some crazy riots and reasons to hate Spain

[EuropeanVlachSon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5BE87pldjA

So many wogs, lol

[alnortedelsur]

No, no war. Peace and love and FREEDOM FOR CATALUNYA.

Only in your dreams. Keep waiting:

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Waiting-Skeleton.jpg

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Laberia doesn't care about the independence of Catalunya. He only cares that there are Spaniards on this forum that upset him and so this is his passive aggressive bitchy way of 'getting back at them,' which is how he typically deals with posters when he gets upset. The guy even thumbed up a post I made in another thread similar to that of Melki's where I call the Catalan independence movement the "what have you done for me lately movement." At least when I talk about Kosovo I do it from a belief formed by the facts and not because 'I iz mad at Albanians!' Even Abubu acknowledges the shadiness behind NATO's actions and purposes.

If an Irishman upset Laberia regularly he'd make a thread about the Potato famine. If an Australian upset him regularly he'd make a thread about how Australia was a prison colony. This is Laberia's pattern of behavior. A pathetic individual.

[EuropeanVlachSon]

Laberia doesn't care about the independence of Catalunya. He only cares that there are Spaniards on this forum that upset him and so this is his passive aggressive bitchy way of 'getting back at them,' which is how he typically deals with posters when he gets upset. The guy even thumbed up a post I made in another thread similar to that of Melki's where I call the Catalan independence movement the "what have you done for me lately movement." At least when I talk about Kosovo I do it from a belief formed by the facts and not because 'I iz mad at Albanians!' Even Abubu acknowledges the shadiness behind NATO's actions and purposes.

If an Irishman upset Laberia regularly he'd make a thread about the Potato famine. If an Australian upset him regularly he'd make a thread about how Australia was a prison colony. This is Laberia's pattern of behavior. A pathetic individual.

Lol what a cuck, why the hell would someone take this forum seriously?

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Lol what a cuck, why the hell would someone take this forum seriously?

Because he's weak and hence why he trolls Serbs, Greeks, etc. It's easier to do so online then to face them in real life. The guy won't even post his pic out of fear.

[Jehan]

Catalonian are pro immigrants this reason alone should forbid them to become a nation.

In the other hand it might be a laboratory. If they become independant and turn one of the richest region in Spain in a shithole due to immigration and leftism. It wold the best proof of what is the best for european people.
Maybe we should sacrify the place, just the time to show everybody the truth. After it always to reconquer it and make ethnic cleaning.

[Peterski]

I do not support Catalonian independence.

But I support Scottish independence instead.

[Laberia]

Lol what a cuck, why the hell would someone take this forum seriously?

Are you talking about your father or yourself?

[Laberia]

Because he's weak and hence why he trolls Serbs, Greeks, etc. It's easier to do so online then to face them in real life. The guy won't even post his pic out of fear.

It's not man behavior going around in forum and talking against someone, spreading lies, it's typical behavior of a faggot.
You have lost your face in this forum many times but this was your grave in this forum:

When i have asked to the mods to bann you? You have to prove this your claim or accept that you are a coward.

You are a coward.

[TheForeigner]

It's been part of Spain for centuries, so why secede now?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

https://scontent.flhr1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22141153_10155220699863386_5597229947158373930_n.j pg?oh=49088714f0bbcc344799fabffcb2e64c&oe=5A7A8D5D

Franco and Salazar were the most important figures in the Iberian Peninsula on the XX century. Only when sufficient stability is established can a democracy flourish and Franco and Salazar were responsible for that stability. If it weren't for them the Peninsula could have fallen into the hands of the Communists. Had that happened we would be a post-communist shithole like Albania or something similar nowadays.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qFksEK4lQUo/Tudd6oDZ2bI/AAAAAAAAAq8/BL3ZgaKloss/s1600/sal_fr.jpg

[Tietar]

Catalonia is one of the richest regions thanks to the policies of the Franco regime that decided that it was the best area to industrialize by its geolocation (among other reasons)

But in a hypothetical independence, all the products that are manufactured in Catalonia for Spain will stop being manufactured there

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

It's not man behavior going around in forum and talking against someone, spreading lies, it's typical behavior of a faggot.
You have lost your face in this forum many times but this was your grave in this forum:

I made an accusation based on past experience as a mod (every other day you would report a post. Although your own posts were no better) and the fact you repeatedly referenced bannings to me in a thread and even quoted a post of mine where you put in bold insults I made at you while asking a mod to clean up the thread after you falsely accused me of trolling my own thread. Your Puerto Rican friend instigated but that doesn't matter and all like you all he does at this forum is pick fights with ethnic groups he has a inferiority complex towards and nothing more.

Did you not make posts mentioning to me bannings? Did you not ask a mod to come clean up my thread (a thread you didn't give a shit about)? Did you not accuse me of trolling when anyone could see he instigated?

You called the attention of the mods in your post against me. That is a fact. That you didn't report the post itself doesn't change the fact you called attention to the post.

Settle down, you dishonest prick. It was I who went out of my way to ask the mods if you had reported my posts. It wasn't you. I could have simply not bothered or ignored their response. You wouldn't have had the brains to ask them. But unlike you I want to know all the facts.



You are a coward.

Speaking of face you've never showed your own. You can talk a great deal of shit but when someone mentions how you have never posted your pic you don't say a word. Should we assume your insults apply to you? Are you looking a bit swarthy today?

[Laberia]

I made an accusation based on past experience as a mod (every other day you would report a post. Although your own posts were no better) and the fact you repeatedly referenced bannings to me in a thread and even quoted a post of mine where you put in bold insults I made at you while asking a mod to clean up the thread after you falsely accused me of trolling my own thread. Your Puerto Rican friend instigated but that doesn't matter and all like you all he does at this forum is pick fights with ethnic groups he has a inferiority complex towards and nothing more.

Did you not make posts mentioning to me bannings? Did you not ask a mod to come clean up my thread (a thread you didn't give a shit about)? Did you not accuse me of trolling when anyone could see he instigated?

You called the attention of the mods in your post against me. That is a fact. That you didn't report the post itself doesn't change the fact you called attention to the post.

Settle down, you dishonest prick. It was I who went out of my way to ask the mods if you had reported my posts. It wasn't you. I could have simply not bothered or ignored their response. You wouldn't have had the brains to ask them. But unlike you I want to know all the facts.




Speaking of face you've never showed your own. You can talk a great deal of shit but when someone mentions how you have never posted your pic you don't say a word. Should we assume your insults apply to you? Are you looking a bit swarthy today?

You talk to much
Everyone can follow the link in my previous post and verify who is the coward and the troll in this story.

[Geni]

In principe i am pro ...not because Spain but because i think every people should be free today in 2017....in the case of Catalogna i dont know ....i want not to be like Cristijano Viejo and talking like supporter without knowing very good the story Spania-Catalogna...then i vote yes but only for the principe not because is Catalogna...in face 1 people that will freedom only peoples that oprime other peoples can vote NO

[JMack]

Catalans are Spaniards and should remain part of Spain. This minority of agitators/leftists/progressives who shout for independence are clearly globalist puppets.

Divide and rule. Catalans are being taken by pure selfishness and materialism now, but in the long run they will be pretty fucked up without backing from Spain. And I bet other Spaniards will not forget easily what Catalans have made when the final hour of doom start.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Catalunya was industrialised in the 1850s and has been the most productive part of Spain since then. Nothing to do with Franco and another typical Madrid based piece of disinformation. Catalunya was the richest part of Spain before Franco could even bomb Barcelona. For more than a decade after Franco's victory, the devastated economy recovered very slowly. Franco initially pursued a policy of autarky, cutting off almost all international trade. The policy had devastating effects, and the economy stagnated. Only black marketeers could enjoy an evident affluence. On the brink of bankruptcy in the 50s, a combination of pressure from the United States and the IMF managed to convince the natural idiot to adopt a free market economy. Finally Franco gave in and Spain could start to recover.

Franco's biggest achievement was making sure the south of Spain (where his father was from) was prepared for the tourism boom - which he encouraged. The Greek junta were very similar - encouraged tourism hugely - the difference is - the Greek Junta were always pro business - Franco was anti-business until people were starting to go hungry and he abandoned autarky - which was kinda an Albanian/North Korea type of policy favoured by natural idiots on the far left and far right and completely unsuited to the long established commercial and industrial heartlands of the Costa Brava.

That opinion is biased, the autarkism was tried during the first phase of Franco's regime and that may be explainable because during that period the falangist sector was still significant and they need to be appeased somewhow, later he opened the economy and facts tell that under Franco, between 1959 and 1974, Spain had the 2nd highest GDP growth in World after Japan.

[Sebastianus Rex]

My opinion is not biased. Unless you find a contemporary document stating that Franco was vehemently against a decade of autarkism under his rule - one must assume that he believed it to be a good idea - at least in theory - the same way Albanians did, the USSR did, the Brazilian Junta did and North Koreans do. The policy was very unpopular at the time, especially in Catalunya but he persisted with it and contemporaries in the US argued very hard for him to abandon it which he finally did.

Already mentioned that during the earlier period Franco had to hold a balance between internal factions, after the civil war the Falangist faction was powerful and could not be hostilized, naturally he made some concessions to their ideology. With time togheter with the lost of influence of the hardcore falangists the regime and his economic policy become gradually more open and liberal.


What you didn't comment on is the disinformation above your post that Franco industrialised Catalunya. The region was one of the the most heavily industrialised areas in Europe before the Spanish civil war. Had been since the Victorian period. The region is historically wealthy.

I dind't wrote that. But it's true that after the civil war a great deal was destroyed and had to be rebuilt.


Finally the economic miracle that happened - happened across Europe. The Greek Economic Miracle under the Junta is claimed by nearly all neutral historians to have lead Greece (under the Junta) - not Spain, to have the second biggest growth rate behind Japan. Italy also had a massive boom at the time. Some massive articles on the Greek Economic Miracle.

https://i.snag.gy/nSc2O3.jpg

Depends on the time period, during those 15 years I mentioned Spain had the second largest GDP growth in the World.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timreuter/2014/05/19/before-chinas-transformation-there-was-the-spanish-miracle/#7587d3ee3b3e


Spain is still a very myopic and insular country - included in this is all regions. The more you travel across Europe, the more you see different versions of Franco - all claiming the same things. What is different about Spain is the severe cultural differences in places like the Basque region and Catalunya - once independent kingdoms which predate Spain as a nation.

To be accurate Catalunya was never a Kingdom, it was a conjunction of Counties or a Principality. Neither there was one Kingdom corresponding geographically to the Basque Region.

[Tooting Carmen]

Neutral. It is an internal matter up to the Catalans themselves to decide and resolve.

[Tooting Carmen]

What I do find funny, however, is when Catalan (and Basque) nationalists prefer to write and speak in English rather than Spanish, as can even be seen by some of the banners in the current demonstrations. They complain that Spanish is an imperialist imposition on them, but how do they think English spread around the world? Pure accident? English people being really nice to everyone else and inviting them round for tea and English classes?

[ÁGUIA]

Neutral. It is an internal matter up to the Catalans themselves to decide and resolve.

The same for me. I'm not emotionally attached to the subject.
But is funny that by trying to prevent the referendum, Rajoy's lack of diplomacy, political tact or what you wanna call it. Gave exactly a major propel to independentism movement.
Through police brutality and savagery :picard2: he offered the independence supporters what they needed. He gave them, The day Spain opressed Catalonia and its profound significance, he almost "legitimated" their cause. There will be non pro independence Catalans that from yesterday on, stopped to feel Spanish.
I may be wrong, but yesterday was much more crucial than it appears.

[Axios]

the creator of this is the stupid Spanish government, yes i support the independece as i live here. But not because i hate Spain or spaniards. Because our government is full of shit and fascist heritage.

[Tietar]

The same for me. I'm not emotionally attached to the subject.
But is funny that by trying to prevent the referendum, Rajoy's lack of diplomacy, political tact or what you wanna call it. Gave exactly a major propel to independentism movement.
Through police brutality and savagery :picard2: he offered the independence supporters what they needed. He gave them, The day Spain opressed Catalonia and its profound significance, he almost "legitimated" their cause. There will be non pro independence Catalans that from yesterday on, stopped to feel Spanish.
I may be wrong, but yesterday was much more crucial than it appears.

people can create their imaginary world, but this is irrelevant, the laws are above that and are to be fulfilled. And so far all that has been done is enforcing the law, the police acted with a very specific mission, prevent the referendum. And those who tried to prevent it from the action of justice and the forces of order, will go to jail for sedition.

The previous president of Catalonia is going to lose his assets to respond for embezzlement of funds, for the 5 million euros he spent for the previous referendum.

the current president will go to jail if he unilaterally declares independence, and there are more charges being investigated for other people who have committed crimes

everything else is irrelevant, Justice does not give a shit about the international tabloid press and if you like more or less. there is nothing worse than that in a country the laws are not respected, therefore things can not be worse.

And people should mentalise themselves that justice will always act,, and stop wasting time.

[Laberia]

people can create their imaginary world, but this is irrelevant, the laws are above that and are to be fulfilled. And so far all that has been done is enforcing the law, the police acted with a very specific mission, prevent the referendum. And those who tried to prevent it from the action of justice and the forces of order, will go to jail for sedition.

The previous president of Catalonia is going to lose his assets to respond for embezzlement of funds, for the 5 million euros he spent for the previous referendum.

the current president will go to jail if he unilaterally declares independence, and there are more charges being investigated for other people who have committed crimes

everything else is irrelevant, Justice does not give a shit about the international tabloid press and if you like more or less. there is nothing worse than that in a country the laws are not respected, therefore things can not be worse.

And people should mentalise themselves that justice will always act,, and stop wasting time.

In your opinion, how much is the percentage of the Catalans who are for the Indipendence?

[Tietar]

In your opinion, how much is the percentage of the Catalans who are for the Indipendence?

not in my opinion, if not in all the polls and according to the election results, it is half, perhaps something less

http://estaticos.elperiodico.com/resources/jpg/5/8/1347298939285.jpg

https://cdn27.hiberus.com/uploads/imagenes/bajacalidad/2017/03/30/_independenciacatalua_98633683.jpg?06d051e3e47d953 a1d278748a3a454c2

I suppose that the final result in a plebiscite would depend on the undecided, or whether the day of the vote is rain or sun. Perhaps the end result would depend on the new immigrants. We will never know this curiosity, because in Spain secession is not allowed.

[Laberia]

not in my opinion, if not in all the polls and according to the election results, it is half, perhaps something less

http://estaticos.elperiodico.com/resources/jpg/5/8/1347298939285.jpg

https://cdn27.hiberus.com/uploads/imagenes/bajacalidad/2017/03/30/_independenciacatalua_98633683.jpg?06d051e3e47d953 a1d278748a3a454c2

I suppose that the final result in a plebiscite would depend on the undecided, or whether the day of the vote is rain or sun. Perhaps the end result would depend on the new immigrants. We will never know this curiosity, because in Spain secession is not allowed.
Ok Tietar, thanks for the info. But after reading this data, i don`t understand how much is possible this scenario:

the current president will go to jail if he unilaterally declares independence, and there are more charges being investigated for other people who have committed crimes

[Quasar]

I think if the English or Americans start stomping on grannies heads in Catalunya - you would see less banners in English too!

Then I guess you won't speak Catalan anymore, because this is how your Catalan police treated peaceful people demonstrating in Barcelona 2011.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH1Eqq4_J9o

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yQuvVn_G0E

[Laberia]

A Spaniard explains what happened two days ago:
What happened yesterday was truelly shocking. In terms of politics, more than the beating of people in October 1st (remember mass beating have been common in Spain through decades).

The Constitution define the 155 very broadly, there were doubts about how could be applied. Some actors, as PSOE (which support the issue) told it would be "soft". PP went in the opposite direction, and has applied a "hard" 155 version:

*The President and the consellers of the Generalitat are deposed, all the cuppula. The charge of president will be probably occupied by Mariano Rajoy or another high rank member of the central government, and the rest of charges will be elected just by the central government. In fact, all the personnel of the Generalitat will be elected by the central government

*All the branches of the Generalitat will be subjected to central government dictates

*The direction of the Mossos is taken by the central government, those of doubtful loyalty will be removed and substituted by Civil Guards

*The Catalan television (TV3) is taken under the control of the central state

*The Parliament can't propose candidates to the presidency

And many more issues.

But because we live in the age of the eufemism, Rajoy says the autonomy is not supressed. The Parliament is active, but can only work with issues not touched by the 155, neither can go against it: they can legislate about forest explotation, for example.

Of course, the autonomy has been fully supressed. The idea is having elections in six months, but that's just a compromise Rajoy told in public, nothing obligate him to call them.

In fact, all of these measures have to be approved on Monday by the high chamber (Senate), but that is of unimportance, since the Senate is controlled by a hugh absolute majority of PP.

[Kouros]

Fuck Catalonia. I don't want these commie coward scum to associate with Spain, so I wouldn't mind them splitting.

But I also don't want them to get what they want, so I voted no. :)

[Laberia]

Fuck Catalonia. I don't want these commie coward scum to associate with Spain, so I wouldn't mind them splitting.

But I also don't want them to get what they want, so I voted no. :)

It's normal that you voted no, but this have nothing to do with commie or other similar things. It's simple, your country it's the epitome of a country created by different ethnic groups stealing the lands of the others.
Anyway, thanks for the vote.
P.s.
A friendly advice.
Control your instincts, no hate, stop with fuck this and fuck that. This can be harmful for your brain and can led you to stupidity.

[Kouros]

It's normal that you voted no, but this have nothing to do with commie or other similar things. It's simple, your country it's the epitome of a country created by different ethnic groups stealing the lands of the others.
Anyway, thanks for the vote.
P.s.
A friendly advice.
Control your instincts, no hate, stop with fuck this and fuck that. This can be harmful for your brain and can led you to stupidity.

Seriously, what is your problem?

[Laberia]

Seriously, what is your problem?

No, i don`t have any problem. You are attacking a lot of people here. The last victim of your attacks was this ne Bulgarian member. But all this is not enough for you. Now you are attacking entire regions:

Fuck Catalonia.
Let me give you an other advice, take a break, log out for some time and follow your normal life if you have one. Your mental degradation was very faster, you are member here from only 2-3 months.

[Kouros]

No, i don`t have any problem. You are attacking a lot of people here. The last victim of your attacks was this ne Bulgarian member. But all this is not enough for you. Now you are attacking entire regions:

Let me give you an other advice, take a break, log out for some time and follow your normal life if you have one. Your mental degradation was very faster, you are member here from only 2-3 months.

1. I've never attacked any other member on this board but you.

2. Don't tell me what to do and stop projecting your mental illness on me, it will only get worse.

3. I don't think you understand this whole Catalonian situation, I think you want Catalonian freedom because, as usual, some Spanish member on here angered you. Jehan puts the whole situation perfectly, they are selfish leftist scum:


Catalonian are pro immigrants this reason alone should forbid them to become a nation.

In the other hand it might be a laboratory. If they become independant and turn one of the richest region in Spain in a shithole due to immigration and leftism. It wold the best proof of what is the best for european people.
Maybe we should sacrify the place, just the time to show everybody the truth. After it always to reconquer it and make ethnic cleaning.

Also do you have any additional comments on this Laberian psycho-analytical passage by Mr. Grimes you complexed parasite? Hopefully an Irishman doesn't push you to the brink of bringing up the potato famine. He is so spot on it's hilarious:


Laberia doesn't care about the independence of Catalunya. He only cares that there are Spaniards on this forum that upset him and so this is his passive aggressive bitchy way of 'getting back at them,' which is how he typically deals with posters when he gets upset. The guy even thumbed up a post I made in another thread similar to that of Melki's where I call the Catalan independence movement the "what have you done for me lately movement." At least when I talk about Kosovo I do it from a belief formed by the facts and not because 'I iz mad at Albanians!' Even Abubu acknowledges the shadiness behind NATO's actions and purposes.

If an Irishman upset Laberia regularly he'd make a thread about the Potato famine. If an Australian upset him regularly he'd make a thread about how Australia was a prison colony. This is Laberia's pattern of behavior. A pathetic individual.

And this young Romanian man seems to agree as well:


Lol what a cuck, why the hell would someone take this forum seriously?

Because he's weak and hence why he trolls Serbs, Greeks, etc. It's easier to do so online then to face them in real life. The guy won't even post his pic out of fear.

So basically you are a little crybaby and most of this forum agrees.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And yes I do believe I was harsh by saying 'fuck Catalonia'. I still don't think a Catalonian would take me seriously as Laberia did, being the ethnic Catalan he is.

Sorry if I'm being rude but you're fucking up, stop filling your country with refugees. I expect better from the people who conquered the Americas and basically publicized racial consciousness.

[Laberia]

1. I've never attacked any other member on this board but you.
brennus, the most ridiculous feature of your character is that you are a liar.
This new Bulgarian member explained his point of view with a very detailed and elaborate post. My interest is not if he is wrong or right in his post. My interest is your reaction. And this is your answer to him:

Who the hell claimed we are a homogeneous nation? Minorities don't belong in Greece as much as they don't belong in Bulgaria, I will leave Albania out of this because no minority would want to reside there, but minorities should be expelled from every balkan country if the region is to move forward.

Also no one cares if you held Salonica for a couple decades, don't be a chauvinist idiot and stop with these autistic maps.

As you and the others can see, when you don't have arguments, you attack the person.


2. Don't tell me what to do and stop projecting your mental illness on me, it will only get worse.

3. I don't think you understand this whole Catalonian situation, I think you want Catalonian freedom because, as usual, some Spanish member on here angered you. Jehan puts the whole situation perfectly, they are selfish leftist scum:



Also do you have any additional comments on this Laberian psycho-analytical passage by Mr. Grimes you complexed parasite? Hopefully an Irishman doesn't push you to the brink of bringing up the potato famine. He is so spot on it's hilarious:



And this young Romanian man seems to agree as well:




So basically you are a little crybaby and most of this forum agrees.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And yes I do believe I was harsh by saying 'fuck Catalonia'. I still don't think a Catalonian would take me seriously as Laberia did, being the ethnic Catalan he is.

Sorry if I'm being rude but you're fucking up, stop filling your country with refugees. I expect better from the people who conquered the Americas and basically publicized racial consciousness.
Now, as i said in another thread, i don't have time and interest to discuss with an idiot without life who use different accounts in this forum, because, among other things, you want to convince the people here that Greece is not a Balkan country but is situated in a imaginary place between Appennino Peninsula and Iberian Peninsula.
I want to explain to you little retard liar, that i don't attack any ethnicity when someone attacks me. In situations like this i answer to the poster directly, or when the member who attack me is totally idiot, i dedicate to him a separate thread. This can be verified very easily by checking the list of the threads started by me. Ok you retard liar?

[Laberia]

Back to the topic, of course if the troll will allow this.
"Rajoy is playing with fire":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boLvX_N4P64

[Laberia]

double post.

[Kouros]

The Independence movement in Catalunya is not leftist in nature. That is just how the Madrid government paint it. Those on the right, centre and left support independence and that is why over half of all Catalans voted for pro-independence parties.

Puigdemont is centre right. However more interestingly than this - the biggest blockers of Catalan Independence are the far left in both Madrid and Catalunya. Leftists by their very nature always seek further federalism and state unity. For example - the Catalan Monday session of parliament after the referendum was going to be the session that the Catalans declared independence. This session was blocked by a court injunction which was initiated by the Catalan left and submitted to the judges by the Catalan left. Needless to say they were successful in blocking the session. You can read about the party here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialists%27_Party_of_Catalonia


The Catalan socialists who are pro independence are the CUP and they only managed to get 1 quarter of the votes at the last election as the Socialist Party who are pro-unity. So the majority of socialists in Catalunya are pro unity.

Rajoy made sure the Spanish Socialists backed his Article 155 announcement before he made it as they would be key to selling the process and even voting on it because the PP have a minority. Needless to say they gave their loyalty to Rajoy without question.

So therefore the Catalan left is split between pro independence and unity with Spain - with 3/4s of Catalan Socialists backing unity with Spain. The right and centre in Catalan politics are the ones Independence hinged on. If this was simply a leftist rebellion in would have died out years ago - most Catalans do not vote in leftist parties - but like in other EU nations - leftist parties often find themselves as the king makers. The Catalan left is like SYRIZA in Greece. They like to attack the EU but as Tsipras and Varafoufakis constantly prove, they don't want to leave the EU under an circumstances and the EU know it.

As for the picture of immigrants in Catalunya. Like in most other places - the right are against it and the left for it.

Catalunya has been the industrial heartland of Spain since it industrialised in the 1850s. Catalans are natural businessmen and businesswomen. Natural traders. That is why the majority don't vote in leftist parties. The whole independence movement is based on making Catalunya richer and furthering Catalan culture. Like the Greek left - most the Catalan left don't give two craps about historical patriotism which are the foundation stones of Catalan identity. The Catalan Independence movement is underpinned by right wing ideologies. The Spanish civil war blurred those lines and many pro independence catalans were horrified by the anarchists during the civil war and stayed neutral as a result. The fact that these anarchists were burning down churches etc meant many of the Catalan right who were the architects of Independence abandoned the cause. Now they are all back and stronger than before.

Fair enough. According to what I've read your region actually encourages immigration though. If what you are saying is true I will accept it. I recognize your unique culture but I think a secession in the midst of this continent-wide chaos is dividing your people.

[Graham]

Fair enough. According to what I've read your region actually encourages immigration though. If what you are saying is true I will accept it. I recognize your unique culture but I think a secession in the midst of this continent-wide chaos is dividing your people.

Most of the migration that comes into Spain is EU policy led by the European Peoples Party. Who has a good role in this party? Oh the Spanish Peoples Party.

Anyone saying i'm against because of immigration doesnt give a good case.

[Laberia]

Catalunya declares Indipendence from Spain.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/923905074325155840
http://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/10/catalan-parliament-begins-vote-independence-171027115908493.html
Barcelona - The Catalan parliament has voted to declare independence from Spain.
Seventy lawmakers voted in favour, 10 voted against, while two cast blank ballots.
The decision was made during a secret vote in Barcelona on Friday afternoon.
The names of those who voted for independence were withheld, as the Spanish attorney general promised to charge those who voted in favour of independence with “rebellion”.
After the declaration, the Spanish government voted in favour of the application of Article 155 of the Constitution, which allows Madrid to directly administer the breakaway region.
Two right-wing parties, Citizens (Cs) and People's Party (PP), along with the centre-left Socialist Party of Catalonia (PSC), left the Catalan parliament before the vote in protest.
Alberto Rivera, president of Cs, took to Twitter to call the vote "illegal". Miguel Iceta of the PSC said it was a "spectacular error".
During the special plenary in the Catalan parliament on Friday, Carles Riera from the far-left Popular Unity Candidacy party, asked that the declaration be voted upon.
"We take this step on our feet, with our heads held high. Not on our knees like subjects, but as free people without fear," he said.
Following the declaration, Spainish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy called for calm in a tweet.
"I ask for calm from all Spainards," Rajoy said. "The rule of law will restore legality in Catalonia."

[Laberia]

Following Friday’s independence vote, European Council president Donald Tusk said “nothing changes” for the EU, adding it would continue only to deal with the Madrid government.

Mr Tusk urged Spain to favour “force of argument, not argument of force” in addressing the independence declaration.

The United States said Catalonia was an “integral part of Spain” and that it supported Spanish government efforts to keep the nation “strong and united.”

State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said the two NATO allies “cooperate closely to advance our shared security and economic priorities.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/catalonia-independence-latest-spain-direct-rule-catalan-parliament-president-a8023221.html?amp

[Laberia]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/872094/spain-catalonia-independence-news-EU-finland-Mikko-Karna
EU TURMOIL: Finland preparing to go against Spain and RECOGNISE Catalonia’s independence

[catgeorge]

This is a dangerous game to play and allow for almost menial like differences for independance.

I am not against it - it is dangerous. The Greek states worked off this system and it was in constant military conflict with each other on who was better. German tribes were the same.

I do not like this for small differences.

[Böri]

Most likely Spanish army will move in.

[Axios]

This is a dangerous game to play and allow for almost menial like differences for independance.

I am not against it - it is dangerous. The Greek states worked off this system and it was in constant military conflict with each other on who was better. German tribes were the same.

I do not like this for small differences.

We live in 2017

[Dandelion]

Spain will now invade Catalonia and militarily occupy it.

[Dunai]

I am all for the right of the people of Catalunya to decide about their independence from Spain, but what I saw was, that in the recent referendum there wasn't a majority of Catalunya's entire population voting for independence, and that would mean 50%+1. I also find it hugely unfair the Spanish authorities' intervention in trying to interrupt a democratic referendum, but until there won't be such a referendum held which will give the before mentioned results, then until this time independence cannot be claimed, as it won't represent the will of the majority of the people living in Catalunya.

[Damião de Góis]

Spain will now invade Catalonia and militarily occupy it.

I'm sure the catalan armed forces will repel the attack. That or NATO steps in and saves Catalonia from oppresion.

[Böri]

I think it's England which is the country destabilizing Spain nowadays :)
They left the EU by playing a nasty Scot referendum game.
They might be afraid that Spain will ask them Gibraltar territory.

If you look at world medias, English news outlets are these most Catalan favoring.

[Laberia]

I didn't know that Galizians have this sense of humor. The Voice of Galizia:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNTEBqCXkAAGAUP.jpg:large

[Laberia]

Meanwhile and according to the norwegian TV2 channel, spain doesn't need to worry if catalunya breaks away, because they will gain something else in return:
http://cdn.ptjornal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/22855566_10203807208216561_1644355912_n.jpg
If you pay attention, you can see that apart Catalunya who is painted in its borders, the rest of Iberian Peninsula is painted with the colors of the Spanish flag. There is no Portugal. So, be careful Portuguese, this Castilians are crazy, God knows what are they working behind. After all this, it's not strange if one day they decide to swallow you. A united Iberian Peninsula.

[Sebastianus Rex]

I didn't know that Galizians have this sense of humor. The Voice of Galizia:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNTEBqCXkAAGAUP.jpg:large

Even more humorous considering that Mariano Rajoy is Galician. xD


Meanwhile and according to the norwegian TV2 channel, spain doesn't need to worry if catalunya breaks away, because they will gain something else in return:
http://cdn.ptjornal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/22855566_10203807208216561_1644355912_n.jpg
If you pay attention, you can see that apart Catalunya who is painted in its borders, the rest of Iberian Peninsula is painted with the colors of the Spanish flag. There is no Portugal. So, be careful Portuguese, this Castilians are crazy, God knows what are they working behind. After all this, it's not strange if one day they decide to swallow you. A united Iberian Peninsula.

Creepy...already knew that Norwegians don't give their seats to pregnant women in public transportation, but never suspected that the geographical knowledge of a supposedly qualified TV worker in Norway is comparable to the american average.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

What should be done is a real referendum manned by a third party and all polling stations filmed to avoid any underhanded behavior. If the majority want independence, then off you go. If the majority don't want independence, then that's that. Separatists have to accept it. If they want another referendum on the issue they have to wait another generation (30 years).

That's the most sensible course of action.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

I didn't know that Galizians have this sense of humor. The Voice of Galizia:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNTEBqCXkAAGAUP.jpg:large

That's clearly something I would do if I owned a newspaper. That's hilarious.

[Laberia]

Even more humorous considering that Mariano Rajoy is Galician. xD



Creepy...already knew that Norwegians don't give their seats to pregnant women in public transportation, but never suspected that the geographical knowledge of a supposedly qualified TV worker in Norway is comparable to the american average.

OK, but don't forget the words of your elders:
( De Espanha, nem bom vento nem bom casamento )
( From Spain, neither good wind nor good marriage )

[Böri]

Catalonia leader escaped to Brussels according to reports. Game over obviously.
EU is firmly behind Spain, Catalan separatists are supported only by UK from what İ notice.

[Laberia]

Catalonia polls close after voters turn out in force – live updates (https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/dec/21/catalonia-voters-results-regional-election-spain-live)

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/f9d2ec98a57e893ceb60c6320bc4a2e2933270f2/0_0_5184_3110/master/5184.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&
A man wearing a barretina, the traditional Catalan hat, kisses his ballot while voting in Barcelona. Photograph: Lluis Gene/AFP/Getty Images

Tobias Buck‏ @TobiasBuckFT (https://twitter.com/TobiasBuckFT)

Treat with caution but here is today's tracking poll from @LaVanguardia. This is not an exit poll. It shows a likely majority for the pro-independence bloc but also Ciudadaons as the biggest individual party. #EleccionesCataluna
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRl68DjX4AICXGi.jpg

[Laberia]

Catalonia election: Exit polls see pro-independence parties winning small majority (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/catalonia-election-latest-exit-polls-result-what-happened-who-won-catalan-vote-a8123431.html)

[Lluna Plena]

Catalonia election: Exit polls see pro-independence parties winning small majority (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/catalonia-election-latest-exit-polls-result-what-happened-who-won-catalan-vote-a8123431.html)

I hope that freedom and democracy win. ll*ll
:victory0:

[Laberia]

I hope that freedom and democracy win. ll*ll
:victory0:
3m ago 20:32 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/dec/21/catalonia-voters-results-regional-election-spain-live)

Counting is underway, but is progressing slowly. Most observers warn against drawing any firm conclusions about the outcome until at least 80% of votes have been counted – a tally which looks a long way off at the moment:

Catalan News‏ @catalannews (https://twitter.com/catalannews)

6.3% votes counted: pro-independence Together for Catalonia is leading (35 out of 135 seats), parties for a Catalan state would keep the majority in the chamber with 72 seats. Majority is at 68 #21D ➡️https://goo.gl/KVA4jF .

[Lluna Plena]

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/21/europe/catalonia-election-results-independence-spain-intl/index.html

:bowlol:

[Laberia]

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/21/europe/catalonia-election-results-independence-spain-intl/index.html

:bowlol:
Ambiguity, is the right word.
The only sure thing is that Rajoy is fucked.

[Graham]

The Spanish Unionists thought they'd do better hence the election in the first place and this is what happens when you only listen to your own biased news. The Popular Party lost votes to a Catalan pro Spain party(Citizens) which in itself is a confidence boost to Barcelona.

Reminds me of Theresa May holding the UK election and causing more havoc.

[Tietar]

The only sure thing is that Rajoy is fucked.

Supreme Court Broadens Catalan Rebellion Investigation To Include Artur Mas And Five Others

Supreme Court judge Pablo Llarena has decided to broaden the probe into the process that led to a declaration of independence in Catalonia on October 27 and include former First Minister Artur Mas and five others in his investigation of rebellion, sedition and the misuse of public funds, the Supreme Court confirmed on Friday morning.

Judge Llarena says in a ruling that the six additional suspects were part of the strategic leadership group that drove the Catalan independence process in the previous parliament.

They have also been "identified as participants in some of the meetings that were supposedly used to come up with and carry out the break up process being investigated", says the ruling.

The five others are Anna Gabriel (CUP), Marta Rovira (ERC), Mireia Boyá (CUP), Marta Pascal (PDeCat) and Neus Lloveras, the chairwoman of the Association of Pro-independence Towns (AMI).

Judge Llarena says they all played a "leading and noteworthy role" in the process.

This is the same investigation being carried out into Carles Puigdemont and the entire former regional government, as well as several former members of the Catalan Parliament, and the (former) chairmen of the Catalan National Assembly and Omnium Cultural, Jordi Sánchez and Jordi Cuixart.

Several former members of the Catalan government, including the former Deputy First Minister and leader of Republican Catalan Left, Oriol Junqueras, as well as Messrs. Sánchez and Cuixart, remain in jail on remand in Madrid.

Mr. Puigdemont is still in self-imposed exile in Brussels, with a Spanish arrest warrant sill outstanding should he choose to return to Spain.

Former Catalan Police (Mossos) chief Josep Lluis Trapero and one other Mossos officer are being investigated for their roles in the independence process at the National High Court in Madrid, not the Supreme Court.

https://www.thespainreport.com/articles/1278-171222113536-supreme-court-broadens-catalan-rebellion-investigation-to-include-artur-mas-and-five-others

[perikolez]

The Spanish Unionists thought they'd do better hence the election in the first place and this is what happens when you only listen to your own biased news. The Popular Party lost votes to a Catalan pro Spain party(Citizens) which in itself is a confidence boost to Barcelona.

Reminds me of Theresa May holding the UK election and causing more havoc.

If PP had inteligent people, Rajoy shouldnt follow as PP leader, because he is a very bad politician and leader. With these catalonians elections he favoured his main enemies Puigdemont and Ciudadanos.

Puigdemont is nowadays stronger than before aplication of 155. He and exconvergencia people are leaders of catalonian separatism, and in my opinion they are more dangerous for spaniards than ERC.

On the other hand, Rajoy have promoted Ciudadanos in these catalonian elections when they are competing by same ideological spectrum in Spain, while catalonian PP have had a ridiculous voting. Probably many Ciudadanos voters would vote for PP or PSOE in spanish elections, but if they get realized that PP-PSOE isnt the only option, would be very dangerous for PP-PSOE. Fortunately for PP-PSOE spanish electoral law protect them.

Spanish newspapers criticize catalonian electoral law who favoured less populated provinces of Girona and LLeida were separatists are very strong, when catalonia electoral law is the same as spanish electoral which is mainly in favour of PP-PSOE, and against Ciudadanos, Podemos, IU or ancient UPyD.

[Tietar]

Arrested two councilmen of the CUP for not going to testify in a case of incitement to hatred against the police

he Mossos D'Esquadra have stopped this Wednesday at noon in city of Reus to councillors of CUP Oriol Ciurana and Marta Llorens for not declaring in an investigation to instigate hatred against police in drafting of a manifesto criticizing Presence in city of reinforcement contingents of national police following illegal consultation of 1 October. The Court of Instruction 2 of Reus had set for tomorrow, at nine o'clock in morning, deadline for two councillors of CUP to appear to be taken a declaration. With this arrest, investigating judge is guaranteed to attend subpoena. The judge, who twice had tried unsuccessfully to interrogate Oriol Ciurana and Marta Llorens, had to issue an arrest warrant for Mossos D'Esquadra to stop councilmen. The arrest has been practiced after 12 noon in municipal offices, where this morning y have come to "work as usual," y said. Encouraged by dozens of demonstrators who have concentrated to support m, two councillors had expressed ir intention not to voluntarily face judicial authority. "You know where you can find us," y had secured. Tomorrow all standing up to support companies victims of oppressive state. DEFENSR democracy punished with persecution judicial.no you are alone, if we touch some we touch all @ANC_Reus @VilaWeb_EN @CDRCatOficial @lluis_llach @ 324cat @KRLS @junqueras @jordiborras — CDR Reus (@CDRReus) December 26, 2017 The mayor of Reus, Carles Pellicer, declared on 23 November also as investigated by this case. Pellicer, PDeCAT, was interrogated for his responsibility in drafting a manifesto criticizing presence in city of reinforcement contingents of national police. It defended n that text sought to recover " coexistence" after climate of tension and "anguish" that triggered police charges that were recorded on October 1 in several communes-re was none in Reus-and that purpose was not to indicate or Vejar to Law enforcement. Toger with Pellicer, six or councilmen of independence parties were quoted, which also signed document, among which were two councillors of CUP. The Court of Instruction 2 of Reus opened judicial proceedings after receiving a certificate of National Police detailing several incidents suffered by agents in previous days, and later, to celebration of referendum of 1 October. In Reus several units of police reinforcement that arrived in Catalonia were lodged and, allegedly, agents felt vilified. In front of hotel where y slept y took place repeated escraches and judge also points out an incident suffered by some agents when y tried to exercise in a gymnasium of municipality. "They were expelled from local," says investigating judge.

http://www.turkeytelegraph.com/politics/arrested-two-councilmen-of-the-cup-for-not-going-to-testify-in-a-case-of-incitement-to-hatred-against-the-police-h14661.html

[Lluna Plena]

Inés Arrimadas (Ciutadans leader) has nothing to do. She won elections but independentism has ate her xDDDD

71178

[Damião de Góis]

The solution is elections again next month.

[B01AB20]

The solution is elections again next month.

if separatists don't get an agreement on who will be president of catalonia possibly we will have another election soon.
and who knows, this weird situation has made grow resentment and an atmosphere of distrust between the two big independits parties.

this is like a race :rolleyes: PP making indepes with their policial and judicial actions and indepes making anti-indepes with their stupidity and crazyness... and in the meantime the economy and society of catalonia going to shit.

[perikolez]

if separatists don't get an agreement on who will be president of catalonia possibly we will have another election soon.
and who knows, this weird situation has made grow resentment and an atmosphere of distrust between the two big independits parties.

this is like a race :rolleyes: PP making indepes with their policial and judicial actions and indepes making anti-indepes with their stupidity and crazyness... and in the meantime the economy and society of catalonia going to shit.

If PP had inteligent politicians, they would win spanish elections always, but they are full non capable men an women and very corrupt. They are also very hypocrite. I dont understand why Leopoldo López is a political prisoner and Jordis arent.

Ancient convergencia have superiority complex against ERC. If Puigdemot dont return, Junqueras has to be president. If Pugdemont want to be president, has to return and acept that he can go to prison like Junqueras is nowadays. Junqueras in this elections has been in inferiority situation, because he hasnt been in TV or radios, while Puigdemont has been everyday in TV in Belgium. Puigdemont cant be president living in Belgium.

[00danieleinad00]

Yes! Of course! Spain is so evil with this Region.