The decline of the Arab civilization

[poiuytrewq0987]

At one time when Islam rose and took large swaths of land from the Byzantine Empire and formed the Umayyad Caliphate that did great advancements in fields of math, science and literature take place. However after the collapse of the Islamic caliphates we've seen a steep decline of their civilization as more extremist elements took hold. The elements I believe are primarily responsible for holding back the Arabs who feel strongly connected to Islam. The question is how did this happen and why do they regard Islam so important to their lives whereas most of us consider religion important but would never go to such lengths to promote it as the Arabs have.

I believe that finding the root cause of their decline will be an important part in reversing it. I believe that if we are to co-exist peacefully with them on this planet then we must eliminate elements that keep their civilization poor, backwards and deficient. There is mutual benefit to be seen from this. Restoring normal development of their civilization (i.e. westernization of the Arab world, bringing them out of the medieval age and into the modern age) can eliminate the demand of immigration from their lands into ours. I believe that this is what most on here want.

[Óttar]

French and British expansion removed traditional Islamic social and legal authorities (The jurists, the ulema) replacing it with a Frenchified or Anglicised class of native rulers who were disconnected with the typical Arabic fellahin or farmer/peasant class. The modern printing techniques and Protestant influence (with I suspect, an emphasis on texts and literalism as the foundation of religion) effected the propagation of a "fundamentalist" Islam. Socialist political thought also later influenced the Arab world. Technological advancements in the West had a lot to do with it as well.

[Loddfafner]

Fundamentalist versions of Islam crushed Arabic scholarship in the middle ages. There were a few latecomers like Ibn Khaldoun in the 15th century, but the fundies got em too.

Shifts in trade routes that let Europeans bypass the middle east did not help as much of their prosperity depended on the silk road.

The Mongols were another factor.

[Adalwolf]

I believe that if we are to co-exist peacefully with them on this planet then we must eliminate elements that keep their civilization poor, backwards and deficient.

Peaceful co-existence with radical muslims is nothing short of impossible. It has been attempted vigorously through out the ages to no avail. Dedicated muslims believe wholeheartedly that Islam is the only way and any other religion or groups of people are just vile degenerates unless they bow down to Muhammad...

[poiuytrewq0987]

Peaceful co-existence with radical muslims is nothing short of impossible. It has been attempted vigorously through out the ages to no avail. Dedicated muslims believe wholeheartedly that Islam is the only way and any other religion or groups of people are just vile degenerates unless they bow down to Muhammad...

Yes, but you have got to ask yourself what gives radicalism vigor? 90% of the time it's because of poverty. The poverty stems from corruption, fundamental Islam that have had a foothold after Arab scholars were largely killed off, and hostile actions by European governments. If we can fix the problems and approach them via integrated diplomatic solutions then the problem will be largely fixed. What I meant by that, is that we take an active role in helping the development of Arab economies and eliminate corruption by having our personnel integrated in Arab governments responsible in carrying out the new policy.

With the restoration of prosperity goes away radicalism which will make a large number of Arabs moderate making radicalism a fringe element in their society as much as Neo-Nazis and KKK are fringes in Western society.

[Adalwolf]

The big problem to what you propose is that radical or not, muslims are constantly hostile to any influence from the western sphere of the world. The USA has been over there for decades, basically stealing their oil and trying to impose democracy which utterly failed.

It would be better in my opinion, if we just backed off from them and let them try to handle their affairs on their own. The direct reason why terrorism and hatred exists in the west is because of the same type of formula that you think would work...

[lei.talk]

Yes, but you have got to ask yourself what gives radicalism vigor?
90% of the time it's because of poverty....
With the restoration of prosperity goes away radicalism...
prosperity < industrialisation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrialisation) < capitalisation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism)


وَأَحَلَّ اللّهُ الْبَيْعَ وَحَرَّمَ الرِّبَا (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riba#Rationale_of_the_Prohibition)


one creative capitalist is helping (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22222).

http://i53.tinypic.com/2lcl66d.png (http://www.rex.sg/sharia.html)

[Susi]

Dedicated muslims believe wholeheartedly that Islam is the only way and any other religion or groups of people are just vile degenerates unless they bow down to Muhammad...

I'm not sure if dedicated = radical... I think you can be dedicated but open-minded still.


The big problem to what you propose is that radical or not, muslims are constantly hostile to any influence from the western sphere of the world. The USA has been over there for decades, basically stealing their oil and trying to impose democracy which utterly failed.

Really? Because one of my colleagues is Muslim and he's really open-minded about western influences. I'm sure there's many cases like him? I think we can't label every single one as hostile to western influence when there's many cases to the contrary.


It would be better in my opinion, if we just backed off from them and let them try to handle their affairs on their own. The direct reason why terrorism and hatred exists in the west is because of the same type of formula that you think would work...

I think we shouldn't leave them alone entirely, but I think we should maintain relations as well.

[Adalwolf]

I'm not sure if dedicated = radical... I think you can be dedicated but open-minded still.

Being dedicated especially to religion definitely hinders your ability to have an open mind. Especially Islam, because if you do not know, they're very strict and ritualistic.




Really? Because one of my colleagues is Muslim and he's really open-minded about western influences.

Ok, and how long has his family been living in England for? Why don't you go to the middle east and see how open-minded they are...


I think we shouldn't leave them alone entirely, but I think we should maintain relations as well.

Maybe for trading purposes and neutral diplomatic relations. But countries shouldn't be in there trying to change their politics and way of life.

[Magister Eckhart]

The first mistake being made here is assuming that somehow modern necessarily follows medieval and that all cultures on the earth follow the same trajectory as Western historians have insisted we follow. Drop the artificial linear history and you'll find the picture of European-Mohammedan relations is very different.

I have yet to see a thread on this board so openly and unabashedly imperialist as this one. You are talking about eradicating their culture, not improving it, about blanching it with Westernisms and modernization theory, and calling that "peaceful co-existence". Let's put aside any opinions about whether modernism is a good or a bad thing and just look at what you're suggesting:


The question is how did this happen and why do they regard Islam so important to their lives whereas most of us consider religion important but would never go to such lengths to promote it as the Arabs have.

I believe that finding the root cause of their decline will be an important part in reversing it. I believe that if we are to co-exist peacefully with them on this planet then we must eliminate elements that keep their civilization poor, backwards and deficient.

First and foremost, Westerners did go to great lengths to promote and preserve the faith of their ancestors and later Christianity, using the blade of the sword and tip of the spear to propagate the faith. You think this is backwards because it is in our past, but neglect the decline in power that Christianity has over Westerners. We're looking today at a Europe that overall is more than half atheist. No wonder no one is as dedicated to Christianity as Mohammedans are to their own faith, and those of us who are dedicated to religion, Christian or otherwise, are damned by society as "extremists" or "superstitious" or just "insane".

The assumption, furthermore, that somehow strict social rules and taboos coupled with a dedication to religious morality is somehow backwards or deficient is one of the oldest excuses for liberal imperialism that has ever been used. "Oh, we're not here to rape your land and steal your resources, we want to improve you and make you civilised. You should thank us for colonialising your native land!" Only a liberal could put his boot on a man's throat and beat him within an inch of his life, and then consider the victim an ingrate for not "appreciating what's being done for him". At least authoritarians are honest about the use of naked force and conquest.

What exactly is poor, deficient, or backwards about the Mohammedans? Foreign to us, yes. A threat, assuredly. But inferior? I'm not so sure. Mohammedanism is one of the fastest growing religions on the planet for a reason: in the atheist, secular West, people have long been deprived of the spiritual fulfilment and personal improvement that only religion can provide. Right now Mohammedanism is the single strongest religious force on the planet, and definitely sports the most dedicated followers of almost any other faith.

To discount Arabic/Mohammedan culture and "backwards and deficient" ignores the tremendous strengths that our own culture has lacked for almost two centuries, and the reasons why Mohammedanism poses such a threat to the West. They are stronger than us, spiritually and mentally, and possess a cultural fortitude that is so lacking in the West that those of us who believe in it are forced onto hidden corners of the internet to discuss how wrong our culture has gone on forums like The Apricity. Mohammedans have no need of such places: their cultural strength is widespread and public.

This arrogance of liberal Westerners who believe us to sit at the end of all human history, the finest and most advanced specimen of humanity ever to stand on the earth, is exactly the attitude that is leading today to our wholesale destruction. The inability to respect the enemy is second only to the inability to recognise the enemy in guaranteeing defeat in every circumstance. Endorsing neocolonialism and continuing the failed liberal project to "civilise" the earth is not only not European preservation, it is actively endorsing a key contributor to European destruction, as we continue to equip the coloured world with the tools and the motivation to destroy us as a revenge for the liberals' condescension and abuses of their people.

[Debaser11]

Yes, but you have got to ask yourself what gives radicalism vigor? 90% of the time it's because of poverty. The poverty stems from corruption, fundamental Islam that have had a foothold after Arab scholars were largely killed off, and hostile actions by European governments. If we can fix the problems and approach them via integrated diplomatic solutions then the problem will be largely fixed. What I meant by that, is that we take an active role in helping the development of Arab economies and eliminate corruption by having our personnel integrated in Arab governments responsible in carrying out the new policy.

With the restoration of prosperity goes away radicalism which will make a large number of Arabs moderate making radicalism a fringe element in their society as much as Neo-Nazis and KKK are fringes in Western society.

Nice wishful thinking. Too bad you blatantly ignore the nature of the very entity that you're trying to control or at the very least moderate. Saying that Muslims behave the way they do because of poverty confuses cause and effect. Where do you think wealth comes from? It's created and material status is a manifestation of cultural development that creates a feedback loop. There's a reason (and it's not politically correct) for why some regions are richer than other ones.

[Magister Eckhart]

Nice wishful thinking. Too bad you blatantly ignore the nature of the very entity that you're trying to control or at the very least moderate. Saying that Muslims behave the way they do because of poverty confuses cause and effect. Where do you think wealth comes from? It's created and material status is a manifestation of cultural development that creates a feedback loop. There's a reason (and it's not politically correct) for why some regions are richer than other ones.

In addition, the very concept of "poverty" is almost entirely modern, and Mohammedan violence and radicalism is not. Before the industrialisation of the West, Mohammedan radicalism was alive and well, but not equipped by Western liberals with the technological ability to bring this radicalism into threatening action.

[Susi]

Being dedicated especially to religion definitely hinders your ability to have an open mind. Especially Islam, because if you do not know, they're very strict and ritualistic.

[quote]Ok, and how long has his family been living in England for? Why don't you go to the middle east and see how open-minded they are...

I'm right now in Canada, he's been here most of his life since his family fled the war in Lebanon. We talked about this at length actually. I wouldn't say he's hardcore dedicated but his religion is more important to him than for most. I asked him what led him to this and he said when he was younger he explored the ideas of different religions and forsook Islam for a time, but in the end he decided that his ancestral religion was the best for him.


Maybe for trading purposes and neutral diplomatic relations. But countries shouldn't be in there trying to change their politics and way of life.

Middle East isn't strictly Islamic and to say so is to not know about the intricate religious geographies of the region. There's many Christians there also.

[Magister Eckhart]

There's many Christians there also.

Indeed, but I would venture that the Copts and the European Christians are rather disparate; likewise for the various communities of Arab and even, I would venture, Persian Christians. I do not hold with Huntington's hypothesis that culture is religiously driven.

[Austin]

Talked to a Saudi guy many times who was a friend of a friend at university. When I mentioned things like the religious police and womens rights he literally just shut off or would proclaim he was unaware of what I meant when I know he knew from his expression.

I think anyone who thinks that the average Arab is going to really become liberalized is a naive fool. These guys can play the part perfectly when in the West. One time I told him, Abdullah, about these things where you could pay to have sex with women. His eyes lit up and he implored how and I trailed off as I wasn't interested in helping him but still it left an impression on me. Have no illusions, Arabs view every single Western woman as a whore or at best a willing slut. I could tell by how they spoke of them when drunk. It is not so much this was their personal experience so much as this is what they grew up believing. You go to the West and get to fuck the pretty blond whore and party and all then go back to the dark ages and wed your virgin and get your good engineering/oil position with Aramco.

He gets educated in the West, whores around in West Europe/U.S. on Saudi government oil grants provided by the West to 'privileged' young Saudi men and then goes back to Saudi and marries some ripe little virgin with a 5th grade education.

Every night these Saudi guys would go to a bar and just take out wads and wads of cash from an ATM from their govt. stipend and blow it on shots/beers then try to hit on girls, fail, and go back to their apartments and get the phone book and call an escort, always the most expensive/blond ones from what I gathered, and do their thing before they had to get down on their prayer mat before bed.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Talked to a Saudi guy many times who was a friend of a friend at university. When I mentioned things like the religious police and womens rights he literally just shut off or would proclaim he was unaware of what I meant when I know he knew from his expression.

I think anyone who thinks that the average Arab is going to really become liberalized is a naive fool. These guys can play the part perfectly when in the West. One time I told him, Abdullah, about these things where you could pay to have sex with women. His eyes lit up and he implored how and I trailed off as I wasn't interested in helping him but still it left an impression on me. Have no illusions, Arabs view every single Western woman as a whore or at best a willing slut. I could tell by how they spoke of them when drunk. It is not so much this was their personal experience so much as this is what they grew up believing. You go to the West and get to fuck the pretty blond whore and party and all then go back to the dark ages and wed your virgin and get your good engineering/oil position with Aramco.

He gets educated in the West, whores around in West Europe/U.S. on Saudi government oil grants provided by the West to 'privileged' young Saudi men and then goes back to Saudi and marries some ripe little virgin with a 5th grade education.

Every night these Saudi guys would go to a bar and just take out wads and wads of cash from an ATM from their govt. stipend and blow it on shots/beers then try to hit on girls, fail, and go back to their apartments and get the phone book and call an escort, always the most expensive/blond ones from what I gathered, and do their thing before they had to get down on their prayer mat before bed.

Like every other rich person on this world?

[StonyArabia]

At one time when Islam rose and took large swaths of land from the Byzantine Empire and formed the Umayyad Caliphate that did great advancements in fields of math, science and literature take place. However after the collapse of the Islamic caliphates we've seen a steep decline of their civilization as more extremist elements took hold.

The reason for the growth of Islam and it's successes that there was already Arab tribes in the regions of the Byzantine empire, although Christians they cooperated with the Arab Muslims whom they saw as liberators and eventually converted to Islam. The Umayyad Caliphate did in fact create the beginnings of the roads to the Arab civilization, but the greatest climax came with the second most powerful Arab Islamic dynasty the Abbasids. It was during this time that advancements in math, science, literature and other fields of the sciences and humanities that took place. However the Arab civilization was centered in Baghdad of modern day Iraq. In the 12th century A.D nomadic Mongols would invade, and according to legends and historical accounts the Mongols purposely destroyed the libraries and throw the books into the rivers. One river became red because of the blood and other black because of the ink. When this lost knowledge occurred the Arab civilization began to decline and slowly withered away. The Turko-Mongols eventually convert to Islam and by doing so few Islamic empires are born the Ottomans of Anatolia, the Mougals of India, and the Timiruids of Central Asia.



The elements I believe are primarily responsible for holding back the Arabs who feel strongly connected to Islam. The question is how did this happen and why do they regard Islam so important to their lives whereas most of us consider religion important but would never go to such lengths to promote it as the Arabs have.

The answer for this would be tied to the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman did not encourage scientific knowledge and focused on the mystical aspect of the religion and hence some of these mystical groups. Which lead rise to the extremist elements. After the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Such groups became a puritan and originally nationalistic they wanted to remove the Persian and Turkic influence on Islam, and this group became the Wahabis. Originally supported by the British and today they dominate Saudi Arabia. The movement is shrouded in mystery and how it's was created. So there are conspiracy theories ranging from the British foundation to a Freemasonic organization. Thus this when the true decline occurred in the Middle East of their civilizations. It almost shifted focus from the scientific here and now to the abstract mysticism which in part is the fault of the Ottoman Empire.



I believe that finding the root cause of their decline will be an important part in reversing it. I believe that if we are to co-exist peacefully with them on this planet then we must eliminate elements that keep their civilization poor, backwards and deficient. There is mutual benefit to be seen from this. Restoring normal development of their civilization (i.e. westernization of the Arab world, bringing them out of the medieval age and into the modern age) can eliminate the demand of immigration from their lands into ours. I believe that this is what most on here want.

All civilizations have an outcome of decline and fall. It's part of human nature. No one can revise it, or keep the status qauo. The decline of the Arab civilization, happened gradually, although they lost political power to the Turkic world, it was there civilization that was still being used and even spread to the gates of Vienna. Most of the Arab world does not want to be Westernized in the sense of Europe and North America, but they do aspire to move forward and have industrial economies. The best is to leave them be, as it's believed that one of the missions in the U.S is to develop Iraq, but this does not seem to be the case, and has only created a sense of hate and resentment. Peace can be achieved by people cooperating mutually and respecting the differences of cultures.


French and British expansion removed traditional Islamic social and legal authorities (The jurists, the ulema) replacing it with a Frenchified or Anglicised class of native rulers who were disconnected with the typical Arabic fellahin or farmer/peasant class. The modern printing techniques and Protestant influence (with I suspect, an emphasis on texts and literalism as the foundation of religion) effected the propagation of a "fundamentalist" Islam. Socialist political thought also later influenced the Arab world. Technological advancements in the West had a lot to do with it as well.

That is indeed true but it's roots were laid in the Ottoman Empire and formation of the mystical groups of various types. The French and the British just added the secularism as well to the region.


Fundamentalist versions of Islam crushed Arabic scholarship in the middle ages. There were a few latecomers like Ibn Khaldoun in the 15th century, but the fundies got em too.

That's true the mystical fundamentalists movement which appeared during the Ottoman period. However North African which is continuation of the Arab civilization continued, until the various nomadic Arab tribes ironically invaded and destroyed much of the civilization that was there. In fact Ibn Khaldun himself recalls these events. Yet the Arab civilizations of the East mostly located in the Levant and Iraq was obliterated by the Turko-Mongols who later adopted Islam, and to a degree Arab cultural attributes.


The big problem to what you propose is that radical or not, muslims are constantly hostile to any influence from the western sphere of the world. The USA has been over there for decades, basically stealing their oil and trying to impose democracy which utterly failed.

This because of the mentality they have gained. According to the them they are not to be occupied by anyone else other than themselves, because it is seen as humiliation and slavery. The U.S has done the opposite it has strengthened dictators that are of it's benefits. The U.S and depends on the monarchies for oil, and the monarchies for U.S protection, in the past from Iraq, and now from Iran or even the locals who are most often hostile to their monarchies.


It would be better in my opinion, if we just backed off from them and let them try to handle their affairs on their own. The direct reason why terrorism and hatred exists in the west is because of the same type of formula that you think would work...

Actually they themselves would say the same in fact. Most of them would like to be left alone. Interfering with them and their affairs has crated hate and resentment and opened wounds that will take a long time to heal on both sides.

[Crossbow]

At one time when Islam rose and took large swaths of land from the Byzantine Empire and formed the Umayyad Caliphate that did great advancements in fields of math, science and literature take place. However after the collapse of the Islamic caliphates we've seen a steep decline of their civilization as more extremist elements took hold. The elements I believe are primarily responsible for holding back the Arabs who feel strongly connected to Islam. The question is how did this happen and why do they regard Islam so important to their lives whereas most of us consider religion important but would never go to such lengths to promote it as the Arabs have.

I believe that finding the root cause of their decline will be an important part in reversing it. I believe that if we are to co-exist peacefully with them on this planet then we must eliminate elements that keep their civilization poor, backwards and deficient. There is mutual benefit to be seen from this. Restoring normal development of their civilization (i.e. westernization of the Arab world, bringing them out of the medieval age and into the modern age) can eliminate the demand of immigration from their lands into ours. I believe that this is what most on here want.


Arabs may be strongly attached to their religion, because it has emanated from their own world. They can identify with it, for it is a part of Arab history, there is nothing in between. The language of their holy book is Arab. That is imo the reason why Arab culture and religion are so thoroughly intertwined, and they are totally committed to it.
The same could be said of the Jewish faith, when comparing these factors.
Our bonds with the Christian religion are of a different nature, as it has not originated from within. This is just a thought, there might be other reasons of course.

[Adalwolf]

This because of the mentality they have gained. According to the them they are not to be occupied by anyone else other than themselves, because it is seen as humiliation and slavery. The U.S has done the opposite it has strengthened dictators that are of it's benefits. The U.S and depends on the monarchies for oil, and the monarchies for U.S protection, in the past from Iraq, and now from Iran or even the locals who are most often hostile to their monarchies.

Muslims have been hostile to the western sphere of influence long before there was wars and oppression. They believe that any life lived outside of Islam is immoral and decadent. And therefore are natural enemies to any who don't bend to their wishes.




Actually they themselves would say the same in fact. Most of them would like to be left alone. Interfering with them and their affairs has crated hate and resentment and opened wounds that will take a long time to heal on both sides.

I agree here; although you will always have your radicals. And yes, these US false flag wars have caused tensions and turmoil for most of the world, let alone that small region.

[SwordoftheVistula]

I'm wondering whether they didn't just capture knowledge from the Byzantine empire and other sources. When the library at Baghdad was burned, why did this finish off this knowledge for all time-why was it not rebuilt? Were the 'arabic scholars' of the time mostly just drawing from the library knowledge transcribed in earlier times?

[Debaser11]

Even the PC types frame Islam's greatest cultural achievement in terms of them "preserving" old texts from the great past civilizations. I remember that much from uni when I took my Middle East history course.

Hehe...It's like the Byzantines were wiping their behinds with manuscripts until the nondecadent camel jockey scholars came in.

Part of me suspects that they didn't preserve anything that wouldn't have been preserved anyways. In fact, it's likely what we give them credit for is them simply not wiping the whole lot of documented Western progress out.

[StonyArabia]

I'm wondering whether they didn't just capture knowledge from the Byzantine empire and other sources. When the library at Baghdad was burned, why did this finish off this knowledge for all time-why was it not rebuilt? Were the 'arabic scholars' of the time mostly just drawing from the library knowledge transcribed in earlier times?

Most of the sources came from Greco-Roman areas, Persian, and to some extent Indian. They just advanced upon them. Many of the Arab scholars came from a variety of ethnic group. That many of them were of Persian blood rather than of an Arabian one. However there was some Arab scholars as well. Civilizations don't happen out of void most often. Thus it was a synthesis of Greco-Roman, Persian, and Arabian all merged into one.

The sources were destroyed and so were the scholars, during the Mongol times. Because the Arabs were also removed from political power which transitioned the move more into the Turks or Turkic peoples hand, who became the dominant force. They were interested in consolidating their power. Basically the Arab civilizations was finished, and Islamic civilization took a new turn a more of a Turkic Persian form with little traces of the Arabian foundation.


Even the PC types frame Islam's greatest cultural achievement in terms of them "preserving" old texts from the great past civilizations. I remember that much from uni when I took my Middle East history course.

They did preserve some of the writings of Greco-Romans mostly and translated them into Arabic, and then from Arabic into Latin. However some of the texts were also preserved by the European monks especially in Ireland and other places. According to some the Church laid the foundation of the dark ages for destroying the ancient work, but still many were preserved in Europe itself.



Hehe...It's like the Byzantines were wiping their behinds with manuscripts until the nondecadent camel jockey scholars came in.

The Byzantines lost most of their empire to the Arabs, except for Anatolia and some regions of the Caucasus, and they would be conquered by the recently Islamized Turkic tribes. However many of the works of the Byzantines and Greco-Romans have been preserved by the Arabs or better the Muslims as they came from various stocks. As well many of the works of the ancient Persians also came out to be and had significant foundation.


Part of me suspects that they didn't preserve anything that wouldn't have been preserved anyways. In fact, it's likely what we give them credit for is them simply not wiping the whole lot of documented Western progress out.

Actually many believe that work of the ancients have been preserved in Europe, but many of it that was lost due to various factors, were preserved or translated into Arabic and later into Latin. The Arabs participated very little in the scientific endeavours as most often the scientists came from Persian stock. The Arabs were more into the religious scholarship and politics until the 12th century A.D when they lost it to the Turkics.

[CelticTemplar]

Peaceful co-existence with radical muslims is nothing short of impossible. It has been attempted vigorously through out the ages to no avail. Dedicated muslims believe wholeheartedly that Islam is the only way and any other religion or groups of people are just vile degenerates unless they bow down to Muhammad...

Agreed, so why on earth would you want to reverse their decline? If anything we should be trying to reverse our own decline.

[Loddfafner]

The more livable their countries are, the less inclined they will be to leave them for places where they must endure pork and bikinis.

[Adalwolf]

Agreed, so why on earth would you want to reverse their decline? If anything we should be trying to reverse our own decline.

Why do you think they flood our nations in the first place? It must be because they admire the moral constructs of western civilization... :coffee:

[Cato]

Bah fuck the Arabs.

[Austin]

Amusing how many of you deem Arabs as 'on the decline', something they certainly arent numerically-speaking.


If geopolitical and European birth rates continue as-is into the future then there won't be much of a sophisticated, liberal Europe left to complain about the supposed 'declining Arab civilization'....


The one thing that irked and or bothered me and still does in respect to my time spent partying with these rich Saudi caliphate children at my university was how they spoke of French people, having vacationed there previously on various Saudi-govt stiffens.

They were always extremely hostile to the French when speaking of them. Whenever I would complain they'd deem me as 'acting like a Frenchman'. I won't even go into how they spoke of French women, but it wasn't charitably to say they least. This bothered me because from listening to them it was clear they had no fear, no fear at all of European systems and or laws. On the contrary they, from what I gathered, felt completely at home traipsing around Europe on Saudi-King-Fahd-Aramco-Scholarship Dollars and Euros, provided to them by the Western governments through oil grants. It disturbed me that males from such a foreign culture had such little respect for the nations systems they resided in and benefited from, yet it became more and more clear they were mere beneficiaries of a sickened, dying system.

It is not Arab civilization which is declining much to my regret, but European civilization, both culturally and numerically.

[Cato]

More than a few Arabs have European ancestry, such as Wafah bin Ladin (Swiss grandfather, who married a Persian lady, on her mother's side). I don't really dislike Arabs, I just don't care about them like I do Americans/Europeans. It's Islam that I loathe, not the Arabs.

[Debaser11]

I don't loathe any single individual by virtue of their race or ancestry. But speaking holisitically about a group as one does when addressing race, I can say that I pretty much tend to loathe Arabs along with other groups you might guess.

[Cato]

There was an open-minded (and somewhat agnostic) Arab/Lebanese girl, Farah, who used to post here, she was majoring in international relations or political theory or somesuch. After realizing that she wasn't a troll, and was interested in talking to us in an honest fashion, I befriended her and we used to chat on MSN every so often.

Sadly, the usual suspect turds made her leave the forum because they couldn't tolerate the presence of a "non-Aryan" or somesuch here. :grumpy:

[Debaser11]

Well, there have been a couple non-white forum members I've had long discussions with on here. While I do find their involvement on such a site peculiar, I have never run one off. By the same token, I wouldn't last too long on a forum centered around other non-white ethnicities given my views.

[Svipdag]

Arab civilization is an oxymoron.

[Adalwolf]

Sadly, the usual suspect turds made her leave the forum because they couldn't tolerate the presence of a "non-Aryan" or somesuch here. :grumpy:

Maybe you should read over the forum's mission statement again.

[Cato]

Maybe you should read over the forum's mission statement again.

Where does it mention Aryans?

[Adalwolf]

Aryan is a meaningless term and besides the point. In your previous post you were angered over how a Arab-Lebanese girl was ''forced to leave''.


The Apricity is a free-speech* forum for people of European heritage who want to explore their cultural roots. In today's climate of political-correctness meant to stifle vital debate, we want to provide you with a platform where you are free to voice your opinion, as long as it is done in a civil and non-provocative manner.

Here at The Apricity we believe in the importance of preservation (ethnic, cultural and spiritual) of all the European peoples.

In order to maintain a relevant discussion group, account registrations are limited to people who are from this [European] demographic section. Therefore this forum is European-specific.

This all seems pretty straightforward; to me at least...

[The Lawspeaker]

There was an open-minded (and somewhat agnostic) Arab/Lebanese girl, Farah, who used to post here, she was majoring in international relations or political theory or somesuch. After realizing that she wasn't a troll, and was interested in talking to us in an honest fashion, I befriended her and we used to chat on MSN every so often.

Sadly, the usual suspect turds made her leave the forum because they couldn't tolerate the presence of a "non-Aryan" or somesuch here. :grumpy:
Luckily she is still within easy reach for some of us. :thumb001:
She is a fine person and would have made a great member.