A Genetic Study on 16 Turks from Different Parts of Turkey

[Hudayar]

Whole genome sequencing of Turkish genomes reveals functional private alleles and impact of genetic interactions with Europe, Asia and Africa
https://bmcgenomics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2164-15-963





According to the study, Turks cluster with Southern Europeans, however, the weights for the migration events predicted to originate from the East Asian branch into current-day Turkey was 0.217 which mean that modern day Turks carry 21.7% Asian dna in them.
http://media.springernature.com/full/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1186%2F1471-2164-15-963/MediaObjects/12864_2014_Article_6660_Fig2_HTML.jpg







Abstract

Background
Turkey is a crossroads of major population movements throughout history and has been a hotspot of cultural interactions. Several studies have investigated the complex population history of Turkey through a limited set of genetic markers. However, to date, there have been no studies to assess the genetic variation at the whole genome level using whole genome sequencing. Here, we present whole genome sequences of 16 Turkish individuals resequenced at high coverage (32 × -48×).

Results
We show that the genetic variation of the contemporary Turkish population clusters with South European populations, as expected, but also shows signatures of relatively recent contribution from ancestral East Asian populations. In addition, we document a significant enrichment of non-synonymous private alleles, consistent with recent observations in European populations. A number of variants associated with skin color and total cholesterol levels show frequency differentiation between the Turkish populations and European populations. Furthermore, we have analyzed the 17q21.31 inversion polymorphism region (MAPT locus) and found increased allele frequency of 31.25% for H1/H2 inversion polymorphism when compared to European populations that show about 25% of allele frequency.

Conclusion
This study provides the first map of common genetic variation from 16 western Asian individuals and thus helps fill an important geographical gap in analyzing natural human variation and human migration. Our data will help develop population-specific experimental designs for studies investigating disease associations and demographic history in Turkey.

Although the 1000 Genomes Project published in 2012 [2] had aimed to provide a comprehensive map of human genetic variation, it was not complete: populations in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Middle East were missing from that study. In this paper, we present data from high depth whole genome sequencing of 16 individuals from modern day Turkey to complement the 1000 Genomes Project in an effort to extend our understanding of normal human genetic variation. We provide the first preliminary genome-wide map of single nucleotide variation, as well as deletion polymorphisms in this population and in western Asia.

Our analyses show that genetic variation of the contemporary Turkish population is best described within the context of the Southern European/Mediterranean gene pool. However, we predict notable genetic sharing between Turkey’s population and East Asian and African populations. As expected from recent studies, rare and private genetic variation in Turkey has presumably more functional impact than variation shared among populations. We further identified SNPs that were previously associated with diseases that show allele frequency differentiation between Turkey and other Western European populations. Among these, those associated with pigmentation were at lower frequencies in Turkey than in Europe; meanwhile variants associated with total cholesterol levels were at higher levels in the former. Overall, our study improves the framework for population genomics studies in the region, and should incite novel genome-wide association studies in Turkey. Future studies using larger sample sizes will be able to elucidate population structure and history in more detail.




16 Turks were selected from these parts of Turkey
http://media.springernature.com/full/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1186%2F1471-2164-15-963/MediaObjects/12864_2014_Article_6660_Fig1_HTML.jpg

[Hudayar]

I think they should've also included Turks from Aydın, Giresun, Sivas, Gaziantep and Thrace (Edirne, Kırklareli, Tekirdağ and Thracian part of Çanakkale). I'm curious about their genetic make-up.


Also can we actually get the genetic samples from that study, upload them to Gedmatch? I've been looking for Turkish gedmatch results for the last 3 days but only found one with a Gedmatch kitnumber.

[Percivalle]

They have only included samples from 1000 Genomes Project who covers only a very small portion of Europe and the rest of the world. It's a very poor sampling. They even admit that:

"Although the 1000 Genomes Project published in 2012 [2] had aimed to provide a comprehensive map of human genetic variation, it was not complete: populations in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Middle East were missing from that study"

Studies like this are pretty useless imo.

[Hudayar]

They have only included samples from 1000 Genomes Project who covers only a very small portion of Europe and the rest of the world. It's a very poorly sampling. They even admit that:

"Although the 1000 Genomes Project published in 2012 [2] had aimed to provide a comprehensive map of human genetic variation, it was not complete: populations in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Middle East were missing from that study"

Studies like this are pretty useless imo.

I agree with you about the samples. There are only Southern Europeans, Northern Europeans, Africans and East Asians/Amerindians in the study. Turks will obviously cluster with Southern Europeans (even though i think we're still not close to Southern Europeans genetically in any way). On the other hand, it's not "useless". It's pretty good to see how much Asian shifted are modern-day Turks. Seems it ranges from 5% to 22% (or more).

[RN97]

They "cluster" with southern Europeans because they only have African, European and east Asian populations. If you zoom in further, you can see that they're genetically quite far away from Europeans on average.

[Hudayar]

Yeah. I'm aware of that. Read what i wrote above you. We can consider Europeans as pure caucasoids, East Asians as pure mongoloids and Africans as pure Negroids. The chart works better as a racial chart than as an ethnic one imo.

[Percivalle]

I agree with you about the samples. There are only Southern Europeans, Northern Europeans, Africans and East Asians/Amerindians in the study. Turks will obviously cluster with Southern Europeans (even though i think we're still not close to Southern Europeans genetically in any way). On the other hand, it's not "useless". It's pretty good to see how much Asian shifted are modern-day Turks. Seems it ranges from 5% to 22% (or more).

Has not it been calculated yet? I remember an old study that estimated around 14%. But I think there is a big variability in Turkey. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Hudayar]

Has not it been calculated yet? I remember an old study that estimated around 14%. But I think there is a big variability in Turkey. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It was not calculated "officially" as far as i know. Also yes you're right. There's a big variability in Turkish asiatic dna. For example people from Northeastern Turkey, as far as i saw, have 0% to 3% mongoloid dna which didn't surprise me actually because in Turkey if a guy from those provinces pisses of someone he'll get called "Rum Dönmesi" which means "Greek convert" or something like that. But Turks from other provinces on average have 14-16% mongoloid dna. Most mongoloid Turks are either Yörüks or people from Giresun (22% mongoloid) as far as i know. Some Turks from isolated villages could score more than that or identical to that i think.

[Fedora]

It was not calculated "officially" as far as i know. Also yes you're right. There's a big variability in Turkish asiatic dna. For example people from Northeastern Turkey, as far as i saw, have 0% to 3% mongoloid dna which didn't surprise me actually because in Turkey if a guy from those provinces pisses of someone he'll get called "Rum Dönmesi" which means "Greek convert" or something like that. But Turks from other provinces on average have 14-16% mongoloid dna. Most mongoloid Turks are either Yörüks or people from Giresun (22% mongoloid) as far as i know. Some Turks from isolated villages could score more than that or identical to that i think.

The average for Turkey should be 7% as far as I know. Yörüks are not that many.

[Hudayar]

The average for Turkey should be 7% as far as I know. Yörüks are not that many.

According to the spreadsheet and genetic results that i saw the average is around 14% 15% and sometimes 12% 13%. it's never below 10%. Only Balkan Turks score 5% 7% as far as i know.

besides, the study that i posted also proves it. but they should have also included Turks from the provinces that i mentioned in my second post in this thread.

[Hudayar]

Oh and it seems Turks, racially, cluster more with Southern/Central Americans (who themselves are Southern European+Amerindian mix however sometimes they're more Southern Euro inclined sometimes Amerindian) than with Southern Europeans themselves. For some reasons the study didn't mention it :D

[Böri]

Samples always matter now if they took from a Kurd in Van and an immigrant descent Albanian from Izmir and the Hatay sample is Arab that gives a mishmash. People then are right to think Turkey is a sort of Colombia.

[Hudayar]

Samples always matter now if they took from a Kurd in Van and an immigrant descent Albanian from Izmir and the Hatay sample is Arab that gives a mishmash. People then are right to think Turkey is a sort of Colombia.

Most of them are equally mongoloid influenced. But you're right about the sample issue. Wish everyone took a genetic test here. I'd like to take a genetic test too, for free :D

[Hudayar]

The average for Turkey should be 7% as far as I know. Yörüks are not that many.

I looked into your 7% mongoloid dna claim. And found interesting things.


A guy called "Dienekes" claimed that years ago http://dodecad.blogspot.com.tr/2010/11/how-turkish-are-anatolians-revisiting.html http://dienekes.blogspot.com.tr/2011/05/central-asian-element-in-turks-part-3.html . he says we're 5% to 7% mongoloid on average according to his samples (hmm i wonder whether he cherrypicked his samples or not, seems a bit fishy).

2 years later, he posted this http://dienekes.blogspot.com.tr/2012/02/first-look-at-turkish-and-kyrgyz-data.html and it seems the mongoloid input in Turks is much higher than he claimed (around 14% 15% on average) according to an actual scientific study. Which means that he can't be trusted when he talks about our genetics. Dunno maybe he's biased or butthurt or maybe not but he's clearly wrong. Given that he's a Greek from Eastern Black Sea he's most likely biased but could be not.

he also claims that we're 1/6 1/7 1/8 central asian according to his "samples". I thought he was talking about the mongoloid dna but he's talking about all central asian genetic contribution. This is also wrong as i https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?222693-Gedmatch-results-of-a-Turkish-Y%F6r%FCk-Guy-From-Antalya https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?221304-MDLP-K23-results-of-a-Western-Anatolian-Turk posted here. The Central Asian contribution is around 20% to 50%+ and those dudes are genetically close to regular Turks.

[Hadouken]

Hudayar here a turk with ancestry from konya + aydin

Eurogenes K13


1 West_Asian 26.66
2 East_Med 26.4
3 West_Med 11.88
4 Baltic 10.11
5 North_Atlantic 7.8
6 Siberian 6.16
7 Red_Sea 4.31
8 South_Asian 2.52
9 East_Asian 2.36
10 Northeast_African 1.17
11 Sub-Saharan 0.33
12 Amerindian 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

1 Turkish 7.45
2 Azeri 11.39
3 Turkmen 15.97
4 Kumyk 16.08
5 Georgian_Jewish 16.62
6 Kurdish 16.69
7 Central_Greek 16.89
8 Assyrian 17.09
9 Lebanese_Muslim 17.15
10 Armenian 17.2
11 Iranian 17.29
12 East_Sicilian 17.64
13 Syrian 18.05
14 South_Italian 18.42
15 Cyprian 18.54
16 Ashkenazi 18.99
17 Italian_Abruzzo 19.09
18 Iranian_Jewish 19.19
19 Kurdish_Jewish 19.5
20 Balkar 19.52

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance

1 86.1% Turkish + 13.9% Chuvash @ 2.59
2 87% Turkish + 13% Mari @ 2.74
3 83.6% Turkish + 16.4% Tatar @ 2.86
4 87.3% Turkish + 12.7% Erzya @ 3.18
5 87.5% Turkish + 12.5% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.34
6 88.6% Turkish + 11.4% East_Finnish @ 3.44
7 87.2% Turkish + 12.8% Southwest_Russian @ 3.73
8 88.8% Turkish + 11.2% Finnish @ 3.76
9 88.1% Turkish + 11.9% Estonian_Polish @ 3.81
10 89.1% Turkish + 10.9% Estonian @ 3.85
11 51.7% Cyprian + 48.3% Nogay @ 3.87
12 88.3% Turkish + 11.7% Belorussian @ 3.89
13 89.1% Turkish + 10.9% Lithuanian @ 3.89
14 87.4% Turkish + 12.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.9
15 87.1% Turkish + 12.9% Ukrainian @ 3.91
16 88.1% Turkish + 11.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.96
17 86.8% Turkish + 13.2% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 4
18 67.8% Assyrian + 32.2% Tatar @ 4.06
19 84% Turkish + 16% Moldavian @ 4.09
20 88.1% Turkish + 11.9% Polish @ 4.1

-----

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cyprian +50% Nogay @ 4.068420


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Assyrian +25% Bulgarian +25% Nogay @ 2.750805


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Ashkenazi + Kabardin + Lebanese_Christian + Nogay @ 2.048378
2 Afghan_Turkmen + Georgian + Greek_Thessaly + Lebanese_Christian @ 2.221129
3 Afghan_Turkmen + Armenian + Assyrian + Bulgarian @ 2.237461
4 Ashkenazi + Kabardin + Nogay + Samaritan @ 2.269875
5 Afghan_Turkmen + Georgian + Greek_Thessaly + Lebanese_Druze @ 2.288395
6 Afghan_Turkmen + Armenian + Bulgarian + Kurdish_Jewish @ 2.295885
7 Ashkenazi + Kabardin + Lebanese_Druze + Nogay @ 2.310704
8 Afghan_Turkmen + Assyrian + Bulgarian + Georgian_Jewish @ 2.343364
9 Ashkenazi + Nogay + North_Ossetian + Samaritan @ 2.363758
10 Adygei + Afghan_Turkmen + Central_Greek + Lebanese_Christian @ 2.368820
11 Abhkasian + Afghan_Turkmen + Greek_Thessaly + Lebanese_Christian @ 2.447322
12 Abhkasian + Afghan_Turkmen + Greek_Thessaly + Samaritan @ 2.451439
13 Afghan_Turkmen + Bulgarian + Georgian_Jewish + Georgian_Jewish @ 2.460231
14 Ashkenazi + Balkar + Lebanese_Christian + Nogay @ 2.479559
15 Abhkasian + Afghan_Turkmen + Bulgarian + Lebanese_Christian @ 2.496081
16 Abhkasian + Afghan_Turkmen + Greek_Thessaly + Lebanese_Druze @ 2.496169
17 Afghan_Turkmen + Georgian + Greek_Thessaly + Samaritan @ 2.496526
18 Adygei + Ashkenazi + Nogay + Samaritan @ 2.505815
19 Armenian + Lebanese_Muslim + Tatar + Turkish @ 2.511839
20 Ashkenazi + Balkar + Nogay + Samaritan @ 2.518907

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


and since you like Mdlp K23 so much :D

Mdlp k23


# Population Percent

1 Caucasian 38.51
2 South_Central_Asian 12.86
3 European_Early_Farmers 10.96
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 9.78
5 Near_East 8.99
6 East_Siberian 4.62
7 Ancestral_Altaic 4.03
8 North_African 2.54
9 South_East_Asian 2.54
10 Tungus-Altaic 2.15
11 Paleo_Siberian 0.93
12 Subsaharian 0.66
13 Amerindian 0.46
14 African_Pygmy 0.45
15 Khoisan 0.31
16 South_Indian 0.11
17 Archaic_Human 0.07
18 Australoid 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance

1 Turk_Aydin ( ) 4.17
2 Turk_Balikesir ( ) 6.35
3 Turk_Istanbul ( ) 7.41
4 Turk_Adana ( ) 7.54
5 Turk ( ) 7.85
6 Turk_Kayseri ( ) 9.43
7 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain ( ) 10.25
8 Azov_Greek ( ) 11.3
9 Syrian_Jew ( ) 12.21
10 Gagauz ( ) 12.95
11 Georgian_Jew ( ) 13.03
12 Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) 13.14
13 Azeri ( ) 13.17
14 Lebanese_Muslim ( ) 13.51
15 Lebanese ( ) 13.63
16 Kurd_North ( ) 13.79
17 Cretan ( ) 13.81
18 Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) 13.92
19 Stalskoe_Kumyk ( ) 14.33
20 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 14.46

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82.1% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 17.9% Saami_Kola ( ) @ 3.14
2 85% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 15% Saami_Finland ( ) @ 3.17
3 78.9% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 21.1% Russian-Ural ( ) @ 3.24
4 86.8% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 13.2% Saami ( ) @ 3.28
5 81.2% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 18.8% Komi ( ) @ 3.3
6 89.1% Turk ( ) + 10.9% Saami ( ) @ 3.31
7 87.6% Turk ( ) + 12.4% Saami_Finland ( ) @ 3.34
8 84.2% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 15.8% Mari ( ) @ 3.37
9 80.3% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 19.7% Finnish-East ( ) @ 3.37
10 79% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 21% Tatar_Kryashen ( ) @ 3.38
11 81.9% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 18.1% Chuvash ( ) @ 3.39
12 91.5% Turk ( ) + 8.5% Selkup ( ) @ 3.39
13 80.3% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 19.7% Finn_East ( ) @ 3.4
14 80.8% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 19.2% Finn ( ) @ 3.41
15 91.7% Turk ( ) + 8.3% Mansi ( ) @ 3.42
16 79.9% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 20.1% Finnish_FIN ( ) @ 3.42
17 85.3% Turk ( ) + 14.7% Saami_Kola ( ) @ 3.47
18 77.6% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 22.4% Russian-North ( ) @ 3.48
19 79.4% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 20.6% Tatar ( ) @ 3.48
20 83.6% Turk ( ) + 16.4% Finnish-East ( ) @ 3.49

----

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Turk_ +50% Turk_Aydin_ @ 4.565720


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian_ +25% Bashkir_ +25% Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 2.572088


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++
1 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Bashkir_ + Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 2.572088
2 Armenian_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Bashkir_ + Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 2.647935
3 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Bashkir_ + French_Jew_ @ 2.705515
4 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Bashkir_ + Sicilian_West_ @ 2.761037
5 Armenian_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Bashkir_ + Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 2.771554
6 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Bashkir_ + Sicilian_East_ @ 2.796134
7 Armenian_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Bashkir_ + Sicilian_West_ @ 2.809549
8 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Bashkir_ + Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 2.812037
9 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Bashkir_ + Maltese_ @ 2.836586
10 Assyrian_Iraqi_ + Bashkir_ + Kakheti_ + Sicilian_East_ @ 2.854861
11 Armenian_ + Assyrian_Arzni_ + Bashkir_ + Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 2.855257
12 Armenian_ + Assyrian_Arzni_ + Bashkir_ + Sicilian_West_ @ 2.859962
13 Armenian_ + Assyrian_Arzni_ + Greek_Northwest_ + Tatar-Siberian_ @ 2.862252
14 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Bashkir_ + Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 2.863661
15 Armenian_ + Bashkir_ + Greek_Smyrna_ + Turk_Kayseri_ @ 2.870184
16 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Bashkir_ + Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 2.874602
17 Armenian_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Bashkir_ + Maltese_ @ 2.875799
18 Armenian_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Bashkir_ + French_Jew_ @ 2.879054
19 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Bashkir_ + Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 2.885605
20 Armenian_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Bashkir_ + Sicilian_East_ @ 2.888103

[Hudayar]

Those are very interesting results actually. I didn't expect "Armenian" though. I thought Armenians didn't live in Konya or Aydın. His Central Asian ancestry appears as Bashkir/Siberian Tatar/Afghan Turkmen even though he's only 14.73% mongoloid on average. And his EHG dna is quite high. I think 11 51.7% Cyprian + 48.3% Nogay @ 3.87 is the best estimate that describes his ancestry considering Oghuz TUrks were as mongoloid as Nogays/Turkmens when they came here with some exceptions. Or maybe 30-40% Central Asian 60-70% Greeco-Anatolian.

btw where did you get that result? do you have his or her gedmatch kit number? i've been trying to collect Turkish gedmatch kitnumbers but i suck at it. Thank you.

[Hadouken]

Those are very interesting results actually. I didn't expect "Armenian" though. I thought Armenians didn't live in Konya or Aydın. His Central Asian ancestry appears as Bashkir/Siberian Tatar/Afghan Turkmen even though he's only 14.73% mongoloid on average. And his EHG dna is quite high. I think 11 51.7% Cyprian + 48.3% Nogay @ 3.87 is the best estimate that describes his ancestry. Or maybe 30-40% Central Asian 60-70% Greeco-Anatolian.

btw where did you get that result? do you have his or her gedmatch kit number? i've been trying to collect Turkish gedmatch kitnumbers but i suck at it. Thank you.

I know him from forums . yes I have his kit number but I dont share kit numbers with others to not hurt their privacy (I dont know if they would want it) . if you want to see other results just tell me which calculator result you would like to see

and ..

1. that he gets Armenian in population approx. doesnt mean that he is Armenian . it just means if he was modelled in 4 populations according to the calculator he would be such a split

2. he is not 14.73 % mongoloid but rather 8-9% . look at eurogenes k13 that I posted . on other calculators he is also around that

[Hudayar]

I know him from forums . yes I have his kit number but I dont share kit numbers with others to not hurt their privacy (I dont know if they would want it) . if you want to see other results just tell me which calculator result you would like to see

and ..

1. that he gets Armenian in population approx. doesnt mean that he is Armenian . it just means if he was modelled in 4 populations according to the calculator he would be such a split

2. he is not 14.73 % mongoloid but rather 8-9% . look at eurogenes k13 that I posted . on other calculators he is also around that

In both calculators he gets Assyrian/Armenian which means that he has Armenian heritage. Obviously i'm not calling him Armenian. Native Anatolians were either identical to Armenians (though i doubt that) or 1000 years ago some of his ancestors were Armenians.

Second, ancestral_altaic is a mongoloid component. the mongoloid dna in Turks rise when you include a greater sampling of mongoloid components. Because not all mongoloid components are the same just as how not all caucasoid components are not the same. For example, if you only include EEF and EHG as caucasoid components Turks would be only 20-30% Caucasoid and it would look horrible.

[Hadouken]

In both calculators he gets Assyrian/Armenian which means that he has Armenian heritage. Obviously i'm not calling him Armenian. Native Anatolians were either identical to Armenians (though i doubt that) or 1000 years ago some of his ancestors were Armenians.

Second, ancestral_altaic is a mongoloid component. the mongoloid dna in Turks rise when you include a greater sampling of mongoloid components.

it doesnt mean that he has Armenian heritage man why do you think that :D by your logic most of west asia are armenians then

I am a Georgian Jew according to what you say :lol:

--

on all other calcs I have run him he is around 9% mongoloid

[Hudayar]

it doesnt mean that he has Armenian heritage man why do you think that :D by your logic most of west asia are armenians then

I am a Georgian Jew according to what you say :lol:

--

on all other calcs I have run him he is around 9% mongoloid

As far as i saw Turks mostly get Southern European populations as their second or first population approx. Like Greeks for example. Or Sicilians. Anyway you probably got my point


What about Gedrosia K3 though? Other calculators have outdated population components btw.

[Hadouken]

As far as i saw Turks mostly get Southern European populations as their second or first population approx. Like Greeks for example. Or Sicilians. Anyway you probably got my point


What about Gedrosia K3 though? Other calculators have outdated population components btw.

it depends what the secondary population is (nogai or turkmen or something else etc.). and also depends on the turk itself

K3 has only 3 population admix so a very vague calc and (therefore) has odd oracles

his K3


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 W_Eurasian 86.52
2 E_Eurasian 12.06
3 SSA 1.42


Finished reading population data. 129 populations found.
3 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turkish @ 0.903314
2 Balkar @ 1.297655
3 Russian @ 2.760215
4 Iranian @ 2.859714
5 Finnish @ 3.162188
6 Mordovian @ 3.368108
7 Adygei @ 4.954739
8 Kurd_C @ 5.401672
9 Chechen @ 6.723159
10 Kurd_N @ 7.898965
11 Loschbour @ 9.562022
12 Makrani @ 9.802026
13 Abkhasian @ 9.995587
14 Tajik_Pomiri @ 10.100055
15 Brahui @ 10.364480
16 Georgian_Jew @ 10.448834
17 Estonian @ 10.566662
18 Balochi @ 10.723284
19 Belarusian @ 11.221881
20 Iranian_Jew @ 11.505964

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Balochi +50% Estonian @ 0.000000
2 50% Brahui +50% Estonian @ 0.000000
3 50% Georgian_Jew +50% Tajik_Pomiri @ 0.000000
4 50% Balochi +50% Belarusian @ 0.263091
5 50% Brahui +50% Loschbour @ 0.352371
6 50% Kalash +50% Sicilian @ 0.372162
7 50% Belarusian +50% Brahui @ 0.436291
8 50% Kalash +50% Spanish @ 0.459730
9 50% Cypriot +50% Kalash @ 0.461215
10 50% Pathan +50% Sardinian @ 0.503562
11 50% Pashtun_Afghan +50% Spanish @ 0.542759
12 50% LBK_EN +50% Pathan @ 0.551453
13 50% Abkhasian +50% Brahui @ 0.563388
14 50% Balochi +50% Loschbour @ 0.568372
15 50% Abkhasian +50% Balochi @ 0.581604
16 50% Balkar +50% Turkish @ 0.654653
17 50% Pashtun_Afghan +50% Sardinian @ 0.656489
18 50% Iranian_Jew +50% Tajik_Pomiri @ 0.738325
19 50% LBK_EN +50% Pashtun_Afghan @ 0.744353
20 50% Balochi +50% Ukrainian @ 0.750155


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Abkhasian +25% Armenian +25% Vaish @ 0.000000

[Hudayar]

it depends what the secondary population is (nogai or turkmen or something else etc.). and also depends on the turk itself

K3 has only 3 population admix so a very vague calc and (therefore) has odd oracles

his K3


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 W_Eurasian 86.52
2 E_Eurasian 12.06
3 SSA 1.42


Finished reading population data. 129 populations found.
3 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turkish @ 0.903314
2 Balkar @ 1.297655
3 Russian @ 2.760215
4 Iranian @ 2.859714
5 Finnish @ 3.162188
6 Mordovian @ 3.368108
7 Adygei @ 4.954739
8 Kurd_C @ 5.401672
9 Chechen @ 6.723159
10 Kurd_N @ 7.898965
11 Loschbour @ 9.562022
12 Makrani @ 9.802026
13 Abkhasian @ 9.995587
14 Tajik_Pomiri @ 10.100055
15 Brahui @ 10.364480
16 Georgian_Jew @ 10.448834
17 Estonian @ 10.566662
18 Balochi @ 10.723284
19 Belarusian @ 11.221881
20 Iranian_Jew @ 11.505964

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Balochi +50% Estonian @ 0.000000
2 50% Brahui +50% Estonian @ 0.000000
3 50% Georgian_Jew +50% Tajik_Pomiri @ 0.000000
4 50% Balochi +50% Belarusian @ 0.263091
5 50% Brahui +50% Loschbour @ 0.352371
6 50% Kalash +50% Sicilian @ 0.372162
7 50% Belarusian +50% Brahui @ 0.436291
8 50% Kalash +50% Spanish @ 0.459730
9 50% Cypriot +50% Kalash @ 0.461215
10 50% Pathan +50% Sardinian @ 0.503562
11 50% Pashtun_Afghan +50% Spanish @ 0.542759
12 50% LBK_EN +50% Pathan @ 0.551453
13 50% Abkhasian +50% Brahui @ 0.563388
14 50% Balochi +50% Loschbour @ 0.568372
15 50% Abkhasian +50% Balochi @ 0.581604
16 50% Balkar +50% Turkish @ 0.654653
17 50% Pashtun_Afghan +50% Sardinian @ 0.656489
18 50% Iranian_Jew +50% Tajik_Pomiri @ 0.738325
19 50% LBK_EN +50% Pashtun_Afghan @ 0.744353
20 50% Balochi +50% Ukrainian @ 0.750155


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Abkhasian +25% Armenian +25% Vaish @ 0.000000

K3 is only good to learn what percent Asian/SSA one person is. Because Gedrosia K3 has only 3 major components, you can't use it for population approximation/mix guesses. But it can be used to broadly understand the Caucasoid+SSA+Asian heritage of one person.

[Hudayar]

wait actually i've just learned that Ancestral_Altaic is not a mongoloid component. Well that came as a surprise to me.

[Hadouken]

wait actually i've just learned that Ancestral_Altaic is not a mongoloid component. Well that came as a surprise to me.

it peaks in Amerindians and people like Hakas , Altaians , Bashkirs have a decent amount of it so a big part of it should be mongoloid

[Hudayar]

it peaks in Amerindians and people like Hakas , Altaians , Bashkirs have a decent amount of it so a big part of it should be mongoloid

I hope they improve the calculators soon. it seems population components still need some work. But i think a big part or a small part of it is ancient mongoloid.

[safrax]

Thus 'Turks' of Turkey largely have almost nothing in common with real Turks. The whole idea of an nation 'Turkey' goes back to Fascists, and is the biggest lie of all of this lousy plannet. Give back 'Turkey' to its Greek, Kurdish, Armenian, Caucasian, ..., real owners!

[Pahli]

East Eurasian admixture in Turks depends a lot, some Turks have almost 0, others are around 15%, would be nice to get samples from Turkic Turks only and compare since Turkey is also full of non-Turkic immigrants and citizens :D

[Hadouken]

I have kit numbers from turks from erzurum and trabzon . they score almost no east eurasian

but they are outliers

[Pahli]

I have kit numbers from turks from erzurum and trabzon . they score almost no east eurasian

but they are outliers

Isn't Erzurum partly Kurdish and (was) Armenian?

Trabzon is full of Laz people afaik but I could be wrong.

[Hadouken]

Isn't Erzurum partly Kurdish and (was) Armenian?

Trabzon is full of Laz people afaik but I could be wrong.

the kit numbers I have/speak about are from ethnic turks

[Böri]

Thus 'Turks' of Turkey largely have almost nothing in common with real Turks. The whole idea of an nation 'Turkey' goes back to Fascists, and is the biggest lie of all of this lousy plannet. Give back 'Turkey' to its Greek, Kurdish, Armenian, Caucasian, ..., real owners!

Turks are victim of immigration and religious solidarity. Crusaders, Mongols, Armenians, Byzantines couldn't deal with and stop Turks, but when the religious opiate is given, things dramatically change. That's how it is.

[Hudayar]

Thus 'Turks' of Turkey largely have almost nothing in common with real Turks. The whole idea of an nation 'Turkey' goes back to Fascists, and is the biggest lie of all of this lousy plannet. Give back 'Turkey' to its Greek, Kurdish, Armenian, Caucasian, ..., real owners!

Are you dumb?


East Eurasian admixture in Turks depends a lot, some Turks have almost 0, others are around 15%, would be nice to get samples from Turkic Turks only and compare since Turkey is also full of non-Turkic immigrants and citizens :D

well, yes indeed it depends. but median average is around 12-15% as far as i know. But i imagine some Turks from specific places (Muğla, Giresun) and isolated villages could score way higher than the median average i think.

[Hudayar]

Isn't Erzurum partly Kurdish and (was) Armenian?

Trabzon is full of Laz people afaik but I could be wrong.

Erzurum is actually unique, historically speaking Turkmen tribes (for example, Dodurga, Avşar etc) did settle in Erzurum. But there were a lot of Armenians and Kurds only lived in the south of Erzurum. But Trabzon is a notorious case. And no it's not because they're Laz, Lazes are/were a minority in Trabzon. People from Trabzon could be the original Greeco-Anatolians who inhabitated Anatolia before Turks came.

[Luca]

"16 turks"
Instantly disregarded.
If you wanna make a serious study, better should use a bigger n value (aka. use more participants. 16 is laughable. Especially seen as ONE PERSON is supposed to stand for an entire region)