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View Full Version : Should we separate the Catalunya section from the Spanish one on TA?



Loki
10-02-2017, 09:46 AM
What do you think? Should Apricity move with the times, go with the current flow of happenings in the world?

Ujku
10-02-2017, 09:48 AM
hahahha good one.

Let's wait and see , I don't think Spain will agree for Catalonia to separate.

adsız
10-02-2017, 09:49 AM
You did for Kurdish Autonomous region..

Ilma
10-02-2017, 09:49 AM
:lol: There are not many Catalans on TA. If you start doing this I could request a Normandy section :D

Are there special sections for autonomous lands, peoples, yet ?

Tittles above our avatar are good though, I should propose the Norman one to Kazimiera :)

MinervaItalica
10-02-2017, 09:54 AM
I was asking myself why there aren't sections for microstates (except for Malta).

Loki
10-02-2017, 09:56 AM
:lol: There are not many Catalans on TA. If you start doing this I could request a Normandy section :D


We had a very active one for a few years, Count Arnau. But he left for some reason.



Are there special sections for autonomous lands, peoples, yet ?


No, not really.

Anyway, I'm half-joking with this thread. I tend to go with official, universally accepted (or close) conventions. That prevents people from continually claiming areas that they want to be independent. Apricity only accepts what is generally accepted in society as a rule. However, if Catalunya genuinely declares independence I'd go with it.

Kosovo used to be a point of contention years ago here.

Ilma
10-02-2017, 09:59 AM
We had a very active one for a few years, Count Arnau. But he left for some reason.



No, not really.

Anyway, I'm half-joking with this thread. I tend to go with official, universally accepted (or close) conventions. That prevents people from continually claiming areas that they want to be independent. Apricity only accepts what is generally accepted in society as a rule. However, if Catalunya genuinely declares independence I'd go with it.

Kosovo used to be a point of contention years ago here.

Open a section "annoying autonomous / independant states" and put all of us in :lol:

Well Catalunya already gets its subsection, seems good enough.

Loki
10-02-2017, 10:00 AM
I was asking myself why there aren't sections for microstates (except for Malta).

They're usually too small and don't generate much discussion.

Loki
10-02-2017, 10:02 AM
You did for Kurdish Autonomous region..

That's in a different part of the forum actually.

Sizzo
10-02-2017, 10:08 AM
I want a section also for my bedroom! Independence from the first floor!

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
10-02-2017, 10:09 AM
Catalonia is not an independent state, just an autonomous region. To be coherent you would have to create a separate section for each potential independent state in Europe.

http://one-europe.net/user/files/Ivan/United%20Kingdom/Scotland%20and%20Europe.jpg

https://geopoliticalfutures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/europe-distinct-separatist-movements.png

catgeorge
10-02-2017, 10:11 AM
The future of Europe heading back to City State of 3,000 years ago.

As Mark Twain once said - History never repeats it only rhymes.

I am just wondering who is going to be next - but I think Spain will not keep quiet with this...they will make Catalonia earn it.

Ilma
10-02-2017, 10:12 AM
Catalonia is not an independent state, just an autonomous region. To be coherent you would have to create a separate section for each potential independent state in Europe.

http://one-europe.net/user/files/Ivan/United%20Kingdom/Scotland%20and%20Europe.jpg

https://geopoliticalfutures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/europe-distinct-separatist-movements.png

That map isnt good, there is Brittany but nott Normandy ?! :mad:

Edit : Ah my bad, the second is really better ! :loveheart:

catgeorge
10-02-2017, 10:15 AM
..and that map is being generous to Germany.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Deutscher_Bund.png

Sizzo
10-02-2017, 10:23 AM
All this particularity is simply dementia, a kind of infantile disease. Concepts like Italia, Iberia/Hispania, Gallia, Germania, Britannia etc. are sacred. Have we come to the point of shuffling History with business selfishness? Quod Iuppiter avertat!

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
10-02-2017, 10:26 AM
http://www.delicious-spanish-recipes.com/image-files/spanish-regions.png

If Spain were to be divided in different independent regions, it would look like this. Instead of being a major economic player in Europe, the Iberian peninsula would just be a conglomerate of several micro-states.

♥ Lily ♥
10-02-2017, 10:29 AM
Catalonia is not an independent state, just an autonomous region. To be coherent you would have to create a separate section for each potential independent state in Europe.

http://one-europe.net/user/files/Ivan/United%20Kingdom/Scotland%20and%20Europe.jpg

https://geopoliticalfutures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/europe-distinct-separatist-movements.png

What about the French Basque Country too? :icon_ask: The French Basques see themselves as culturally different to the rest of France. Do you think the Basque Country in France and the Basque Country in Spain would unite together (?) as they're both Basque clans, but they're just living on different sides of the Pyrenee Mountains between France, Andorra, and Spain.

Europeans (and non-Europeans too in various cultures across the planet) can be very clannish and they want to protect their own unique identities, languages, and cultures, hence the reasons (along with political and economical issues too) why they're seeking independence to self-govern their own territorial regions.

A Dutch person once wrote that forced unions placed upon different peoples always leads to tensions, disagreements, dictatorships and divides. People may get along more harmoniously and cooperate with each other better without a forced political union between them, and can even become friendly neighbours and allies.

Others have a different view of this though and will say, 'United we stand, divided we fall.'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5fZtNmAJhs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0exzlDHSHpw

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
10-02-2017, 10:33 AM
What about the French Basque Country too? :icon_ask: The French Basques see themselves as culturally different to the rest of France. Do you think the Basque Country in France and the Basque Country in Spain would unite together as they're both Basques?

Yes, Basque independents claim a portion of the French territory as well. Will this ever happen? Very unlikely.

http://travel-holidays.money-socrates.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/basque_map.jpg

Dandelion
10-02-2017, 10:58 AM
..and that map is being generous to Germany.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Deutscher_Bund.png

Germany the undivided: according to every such map. ;)

Loki
10-02-2017, 11:09 AM
Catalonia is not an independent state, just an autonomous region. To be coherent you would have to create a separate section for each potential independent state in Europe.

http://one-europe.net/user/files/Ivan/United%20Kingdom/Scotland%20and%20Europe.jpg


Good maps :) (but the map confused North Ossetia with South Ossetia... it is the South that wants independence, not the North)

And yes I am aware of that, but you have to admit that Catalonia is the foremost issue at the moment, not the others. Maybe in a few years it could be Scotland again.

Laberia
10-02-2017, 11:17 AM
The future of Europe heading back to City State of 3,000 years ago.

As Mark Twain once said - History never repeats it only rhymes.

I am just wondering who is going to be next - but I think Spain will not keep quiet with this...they will make Catalonia earn it.

Crete maybe?

Loki
10-02-2017, 11:20 AM
..and that map is being generous to Germany.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Deutscher_Bund.png

Unification of the German principalities was the miracle of modern Europe, that has defined modern Europe. Unlike these other cases, Germans were one ethnic group, whose country was divided up between different princes.

Sundqvist
10-02-2017, 11:21 AM
yes, I am ready to change my data, so pls add Catalunya flag

Mikula
10-02-2017, 11:29 AM
https://geopoliticalfutures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/europe-distinct-separatist-movements.png
If I can say something as a Czech and Moravian to the map - I dont ever heard about any Moravian separatism, there.
There are just an movements at Moravia, with a program to change unitar model of the Czech Republic into federation of historical lands (Bohemia, Moravia, Silesia), simillar to the model of "Bundesländer" what is used in Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_of_Germany)and Austria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_of_Austria).
Todays model of regional division of the Czechia, does not corresponded with the historical division of 3 crown-lands

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Czech_Rep._-_Bohemia%2C_Moravia_and_Silesia_III_%28en%29.png/1200px-Czech_Rep._-_Bohemia%2C_Moravia_and_Silesia_III_%28en%29.png

Sebastianus Rex
10-02-2017, 11:56 AM
:rolleyes: That's sounds like opportunism to increase the adhesion of Catalan members to the forum...yeah I admit it's probably a good business move that would increase the traffic of the website altough ethically deplorable imo.

MinervaItalica
10-02-2017, 11:56 AM
https://geopoliticalfutures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/europe-distinct-separatist-movements.png

I doubt that in Sicily there is a strong nationalist tendency...

Same for Padania (a political invention with no cultural basis), which include Tuscany and Marche for example and those regions have zero nationalists

The strongest nationalists are in Lombardy, Alto Adige (not Trentino) and Veneto though they want more authonomy not to split from Italy (except maybe for Alto Adige) although the map marks them with non Italic names. I've my doubt about that map.

Insubria? Never heard any movement for that...

Liguria?!?! :lol:

Calcifer
10-02-2017, 03:26 PM
What do you think? Should Apricity move with the times, go with the current flow of happenings in the world?

:picard1:

Please don't put ideas in their heads! We will end up having 60 more subforums with no posts.

There was huge uproar about the creation of Crna Gora a year or two ago and it only has 27 threads. Most of the threads in this subsection were moved from other parts of the forum, which means the amount of threads created specifically for this subsection I can probably count on one hand.

EVERYONE wants their subsection but when it comes down to it, nobody is interested in posting there.

MinervaItalica
10-02-2017, 03:46 PM
..and that map is being generous to Germany.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Deutscher_Bund.png

It's impossible to see modern Germany from that map. :)

They really have had a lot of states...

...btw what is the red line?

Germany today is a federation not an unitary state.

Lluna Plena
10-04-2017, 06:16 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcxcrxslnYk

:thumb001:

Per a tots aquells que diuen que les imatges amb sang eran falses, la meva resposta és: no cal veure sang per que hi hagi violència. Els cops de porra, les empentes per les escales i les salvatges estirades de cabells no enganyen ningú...

Finnish Swede
10-04-2017, 06:31 AM
https://geopoliticalfutures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/europe-distinct-separatist-movements.png

That picture is ''hilarious''...atleast what comes to Samis. If Samis would ever become independece or having more autonomy position (they already have several extra rights vs Finns or Scadinavians in Northest parts of those countries...to be able to safe their culture and lifestyle)....their real area will be very small compare that map....being just in the northest corner of Scandinavia. Honestly less than 100 000 people will not even need more land. And they will/would never either get more. Problem/challenger is that their lifestyle (herd the reindeers) which needs lot of more land than they would do as a people. So atleast as long as they continue that, there are zero changes they could become independence.

But autonomy could also work some cases. Finland had all the time autonomy position as it was short period (100 years) in history part of Russia, Åland island has it now as part of Finland. Stronger autonomy position for Catalunya could solve the problem? Won't still happen as long as present leaders/goverments are in power (after last weekend).

Lluna Plena
10-08-2017, 09:39 AM
"There are not many Catalans on TA. If you start doing this I could request a Normandy section :D "



Hey! I'm here. ;)

Tietar
11-06-2017, 09:35 PM
and in the section of Catalonia you can create another section dedicated to Tabarnia (the rich province that does not want to be in a third-world republic of rednecks).

municipal electoral results in deep Catalonia and in Tabarnia (Green separatist, Red unionist)
https://www.elmagacin.com/wp-content/uploads/mapa-de-Tabarnia-2017.jpg

https://gaceta.es/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/tabarnia-bcnisnotcat-mapa-comunidad-barcelona.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/--HoNuyQ0fGU/WY7RfeuSmTI/AAAAAAAAALE/wcao_NO7wDocvULEiQNm1tnoDa6XRiALwCLcBGAs/s1600/TABARNIA-libertad-cartel-arran-barcelona.jpg

https://gaceta.es/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/tabarnia.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cnByudSEbyE/WTbF11p_I8I/AAAAAAAFPVA/_G9lZeV_L5Mbxbweyfwv2WCD2FFmnNGNgCLcB/s1600/vp5r3FL.jpg

https://barcelonaisnotcatalonia.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/cabecera-21.jpg?w=1400&h=

Adoptee
11-06-2017, 09:36 PM
It's already over so no. I knew it was a big nothing

Damião de Góis
11-06-2017, 09:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcxcrxslnYk


Why is that guy still in the European Parliament?

Bosniensis
11-06-2017, 09:48 PM
What do you think? Should Apricity move with the times, go with the current flow of happenings in the world?

No let them fight on a the same forum, that's more entertaining.. don't make TA boring.

alnortedelsur
11-07-2017, 12:52 AM
It would not make any sense because Catalonia IS Spain.

alnortedelsur
11-07-2017, 01:03 AM
http://www.delicious-spanish-recipes.com/image-files/spanish-regions.png

If Spain were to be divided in different independent regions, it would look like this. Instead of being a major economic player in Europe, the Iberian peninsula would just be a conglomerate of several micro-states.

That's what anti-Spanish haters, and even some stupid anti-Spanish leftists from Spain dream about, but it won't ever happen.

Cristiano viejo
11-07-2017, 01:20 AM
and in the section of Catalonia you can create another section dedicated to Tabarnia (the rich province that does not want to be in a third-world republic of rednecks).

Dont forget the Valley of Arán, they already have said that if Catalonia separates of Spain they will separate of Catalonia and will join Spain again :cool:

alnortedelsur
11-07-2017, 01:42 AM
Dont forget the Valley of Arán, they already have said that if Catalonia separates of Spain they will separate of Catalonia and will join Spain again :cool:

The most funny part, is that if (as Tietar pointed out) the most densely populated and industrialized part of Catalonia (which is precisely the part that is full of non-Catalan Spanish descent people), is where more people is against the independence and would not want to be part of Catalonia, but join Spain again, that means that the separatists would have to deal with NOT counting with that industrialized area that they would like so bad to be part of their seceded state.

They would have to end up conforming with an insignificant micro-state with no industries, lol

... but also, without the Valley of Arán, lololololol......