E1b Y-DNA in Europe

[Böri]

https://i.hizliresim.com/jQVLDG.jpg

Kosovo 47,5%
Albania 27,5%
Montenegro 27%
Bulgaria 23,5%
Macedonia 21,5%
Greece 21%
Serbia 15%
Portugal 14%
Romania 14%
Italy 13,5%
Bosnia 11,5% (9% in Bosniaks and Croats; but 17,5% in Serbs)


Red Sea origins & Neolithic expansion

Haplogroup E1b1b (formerly known as E3b) represents the last major direct migration from Africa into Europe. It is believed to have first appeared in the Horn of Africa approximately 26,000 years ago and dispersed to North Africa and the Near East during the late Paleolithic and Mesolithic periods. E-M78 and E-Z827 originated respectively at 20,000 years and 24,000 years. E1b1b lineages are closely linked to the diffusion of Afroasiatic languages.

Lazaridis et al. (2016) tested the first ancient DNA samples from the Mesolithic Natufian culture in Israel, possibly the world's oldest sedentary community, and found that the male individuals belonged either to haplogroups CT or E1b1 (including two E1b1b1b2 samples). These are to date the oldest known E1b1b individuals. The same haplogroups show up in Pre-Pottery Neolithic B Jordan, accompanied by new haplogroups (H2 and T).


Source: Eupedia

[Böri]

It's from farmers and agriculturalists from North Africa, Red Sea and Levantine coast who progressed around 5000 B.C. to south Europe obviously.
They left few to no impact on Russia, Siberia and Finland.

[Philip Latinowitz]

Hitler's haplogroup

[Dema]

https://i.hizliresim.com/jQVLDG.jpg

Kosovo 47,5%
Albania 27,5%
Montenegro 27%
Bulgaria 23,5%
Macedonia 21,5%
Greece 21%
Serbia 15%
Portugal 14%
Romania 14%
Italy 13,5%
Bosnia 11,5% (9% in Bosniaks and Croats; but 17,5% in Serbs)


Red Sea origins & Neolithic expansion

Haplogroup E1b1b (formerly known as E3b) represents the last major direct migration from Africa into Europe. It is believed to have first appeared in the Horn of Africa approximately 26,000 years ago and dispersed to North Africa and the Near East during the late Paleolithic and Mesolithic periods. E-M78 and E-Z827 originated respectively at 20,000 years and 24,000 years. E1b1b lineages are closely linked to the diffusion of Afroasiatic languages.

Lazaridis et al. (2016) tested the first ancient DNA samples from the Mesolithic Natufian culture in Israel, possibly the world's oldest sedentary community, and found that the male individuals belonged either to haplogroups CT or E1b1 (including two E1b1b1b2 samples). These are to date the oldest known E1b1b individuals. The same haplogroups show up in Pre-Pottery Neolithic B Jordan, accompanied by new haplogroups (H2 and T).


Source: Eupedia



That is map of entire E1b, its obvious that it dominates in Africa and in some places like Somalia or Ethiopia can go up to 80%.


There is clade of E1b known as V13 that is much more exclusive to Europe...

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-V13.gif



Its origin is believed to be Balkan, but there is possibility of Levantine or North African origin also.

While its main expansion happened in Bronze Age with Indo-Europeans arriving from direction of Pontic Steppes....

So, R1a, R1b and V13 spread with IE.

[Böri]

Its origin is believed to be Balkan, but there is possibility of Levantine or North African origin also.

While its main expansion happened in Bronze Age with Indo-Europeans arriving from direction of Pontic Steppes....

So, R1a, R1b and V13 spread with IE.

E1b v13 was like G, it was the pre-Indo-European element. Indo Europeans were the R1b who later (end of Neolithic or some times later) assimilated the natives and imposed a language on them.
Original E1b or V13 should have had a Afro-Asiatic type language similar to what was spoken by Egyptian Pharoahs.

[Böri]

By the way I checked for Cyprus.
It appears 24% average E1b. Reportedly Greeks have 25 and Turkish from north 23%.
N is seen as difference in Cyprus beside Q etc.
Greeks are 0% N while Turkish Cypriots have 2% N. While Q is 0,5% in Greek Cypriots and 1% for Turkish ones. :) Not bad for Cypriots

[Jackson78]

Serbia 15%


Serbia have more E1b than this, 20% for sure.

[Böri]

Serbia have more E1b than this, 20% for sure.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml
They give 15 for Serbia and 17,5 for Bosnian Serbs.

[Jackson78]

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml
They give 15 for Serbia and 17,5 for Bosnian Serbs.

Eupedia is not reliable source. Serbs from Serbia have around 20% or little more of E1b, while Bosnian Serbs have around 15%.

[Dema]

By the way I checked for Cyprus.
It appears 24% average E1b. Reportedly Greeks have 25 and Turkish from north 23%.
N is seen as difference in Cyprus beside Q etc.
Greeks are 0% N while Turkish Cypriots have 2% N. :) Not bad for Cypriots.


Not really, Neolithic Europe yielded mostly I1, I2 and G.

If V13 origin was Europe then it must have been some isolated tribe because its absent in Neolithic Europe except of few strange places like one Neolithic sample from Spanish Cave..


V13 origin is still unknown, but its 100% sure that it had Bronze Age expansion just as R1b and R1a.

Also look at V13 map that i posted its funny that Basque region does not have V13 and their language is indeed pre Indo-European.




V13 is just as Indo Euopean just as R1a and R1b. Its Bronze age invaders genociding European natives...


Hence why I1, which is found in Paleolithic and Neolithic Europe, which is formed 27500 years ago but has TMRCA only 4600 years.. Bronze age genocide..

Ofc V13 later also somewhat spread with Romans too... But that expansion is insignificant when in compare to IE one.

[Oneeye]

Natufian pride world wide.

Eat your heart out, Rethel.

[Dema]

Eupedia is not reliable source. Serbs from Serbia have around 20% or little more of E1b, while Bosnian Serbs have around 15%.

Serbs realistically will have 10% of V13 at max... Maybe not even 10%, maybe less

Montenegrin's can raise your V13 if you put them in Serb group.. Also South Serbia which are mostly Slavicized Albanians like Sanxhak and Novi Pazar


Further from Albanians less V13 everyone has....


Albanians must have been among earliest separation from Indo Europeans because they are the only one forming their own branch inside of IE tree except Armenians, and they have big portion of V13 and R1b which also confirms their IE origin.

[Böri]

Not really, Neolithic Euope yielded mostly I1, I2 and G.

If V13 origin was Europe then it must have been some isolated tribe because its absent in Neolithic Europe except of few strange places like one Neolithic sample from Spanish Cave..


V13 origin is still unknown, but its 100% sure that it had Bronze Age expansion just as R1b and R1a.

Also look at V13 map that i posted its funny that Basque region does not have V13 and their language is indeed pre Indo-European.




V13 is just as Indo Euopean just as R1a and R1b. Its Bronze age invaders genociding European natives...


Hence why I1, which is found in Paleolithic and Neolithic Europe, which is formed 27500 years ago but has TMRCA only 4600 years.. Bronze age genocide..

Ofc V13 later also somewhat spread with Romans too... But that expansion is insignificant when in compare to IE one.

Basque language is thought to be (theory) from Caucasus Iber.
It has some similarities with Abkhasian.

Proto-IE people are thought to have started their journey in the Pontic-Caspian steppes.
Logically if those proto-IE were also E1b you should see some impacts until Mongolia and Siberia but there is none. While today around less than 10% of Mongolians can be R.
Let aside Mongolia, E1b is close to zero in Dagestan and Chechenia obviously.

[Wrong]

So far we know R1b-L23 is obviously an IE marker.

J2a in Bronze Age Greece was also found to be an IE marker along with Bronze Age J2b2 in the Dinaric Alps.

Also, EV13 helped spread it too.

[Dema]

Basque language is thought to be (theory) from Caucasus Iber.
It has some similarities with Abkhasian.

Proto-IE people are thought to have started their journey in the Pontic-Caspian steppes.
Logically if those proto-IE were also E1b you should see some impacts until Mongolia and Siberia but there is none. While today around less than 10% of Mongolians can be R.



No, V13 is not originally IE or proto IE. Today most acceptable theory is that IEs so R1a and R1b assimilated V13 somewhere near Pontic Steppes and then together they spread Indo Europization...


So, V13 is not IE in origin but its main expansion happened with IE expansion. So they joined early with IE forces and spread with them..

[Böri]

Man if EV13 was from Kurgan in the Pontic-Caspian steppe why the hell you don't see it in significant amount in the east of Urals?
Why close to zero for Celtic speakers (Cornwall, Britanny etc)?
Why close to zero in Dagestan and Chechenya which are just south of Pontic-Caspian steppe?

E-v13 created the Egyptian culture I guess. and prior, during the Neolithic they spread from North Africa to Europe. When you look at the distribution it's how it is.
E-v13 was the pre-IE natives in Europe just like the G.


So far we know R1b is obviously an IE marker.

J2a in Bronze Age Greece was also found to be an IE marker along with Bronze Age J2b2 in the Dinaric Alps.

Also, EV13 helped spread it too.

Yup looking at geographical distribution you see that E and J have spread to Europe in more or less same ways. There is also somewhat overlap in geographical distribution, though J also spread significantly toward Central Asia and especially Caucasus where Ev13 are present but lesser.

[Wrong]

Man if EV13 was from Kurgan in the Pontic-Caspian steppe why the hell you don't see it in significant amount in the east of Urals?
Why close to zero for Celtic speakers (Cornwall, Britanny etc)?
Why close to zero in Dagestan and Chechenya which are just south of Pontic-Caspian steppe?

E-v13 created the Egyptian culture I guess. and prior, during the Neolithic they spread from North Africa to Europe. When you look at the distribution it's how it is.
E-v13 was the pre-IE natives in Europe just like the G.



Yup looking at geographical distribution you see that E and J have spread to Europe in more or less same ways. There is also somewhat overlap in geographical distribution, though J also spread significantly toward Central Asia and especially Caucasus where Ev13 are present but lesser.
Subclades are more important to look into, J2b2 formed ~18000 years before present somewhere in the West Asian/East Mediterranean area.
From there it spread around in all directions, joined and assimilated other haplogroups.

Just the same way R spread from Southeast Asia.

[Dema]

There is nothing that can explain V13 expansion except Bronze Age Indo-European invasion since it was obviously absent in almost entire Neolithic Europe...

And you have V13 in all IE countries, where you find R1b or R1a also..

[Wrong]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)

Haplogroup P1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_P1_(Y-DNA)) (P-M45), the immediate ancestor of Haplogroup R, likely emerged in Southeast Asia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asia).

[Böri]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)

Haplogroup P1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_P1_(Y-DNA)) (P-M45), the immediate ancestor of Haplogroup R, likely emerged in Southeast Asia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asia).

In the long journey of mankind which started either somewhere around Sudan or maybe Yemen, the ancestors of Ev13 didnt travel all way to Middle East, North India, China, Siberia and to the steppe, like the others did.

Ev13 stayed in North Africa then they moved to Europe during the Neolithic.

The R, N, Q etc are those who made the long journey and came through Siberia and the steppes. They left the C behind them as Chinese and Mongols.

Ev13 were originally Hamitic (Afro-Asiatic) who were later assimilated by Japhetic (IE). That's how I suppose.

[Jackson78]

Serbs realistically will have 10% of V13 at max... Maybe not even 10%, maybe less

Montenegrin's can raise your V13 if you put them in Serb group.. Also South Serbia which are mostly Slavicized Albanians like Sanxhak and Novi Pazar


Further from Albanians less V13 everyone has....


Albanians must have been among earliest separation from Indo Europeans because they are the only one forming their own branch inside of IE tree except Armenians, and they have big portion of V13 and R1b which also confirms their IE origin.

Just lol. Serbs in Serbia, even Serbs far from Kosovo and Montenegro have 20% of E1b.

And Serbs have also much more SNP diversity of E1b than Albanians.

[Böri]

Just lol. Serbs in Serbia, even Serbs far from Kosovo and Montenegro have 20% of E1b.

And Serbs have also much more SNP diversity of E1b than Albanians.

That is possible if we think that Bosnian Serbs are 17,5% E1b despite living in geographically I zone. Maybe Serbia pre-selected the samples they gave for the study :)

[Rethel]

Eat your heart out, Rethel.

Are you really so butthurted about not being your most imagine hg and
insecure, that you have to spoke irrelevant nonsense, involving me? :confused:

[Rethel]

Ev13 were originally Hamitic (Afro-Asiatic) who were later assimilated by Japhetic (IE). That's how I suppose.

Finally you got it! :thumb001:

[Oneeye]

Are you really so butthurted about not being your most imagine hg and
insecure, that you have to spoke irrelevant nonsense, involving me? :confused:

I just love mocking you.

[Rethel]

I just love mocking you.

You really have no other hobby in life...?

[Vožd]

I dont belive in this map. It show south Serbia as highly concentrated, by logic becouse is closest to Kosovo, but actualy people from this region are mostly origin from Herzegovina, which means they have far less E1b and more I2a. They also look different than Kosovo Serbs and Albanians.

[Vožd]

People from Aleksandrovac (near north Kosovo) tested, and result is: I hg 41,1%, R1a 21,1%, E1b 15,2%.
Source: Todorovic2013

Map is definitely wrong.

[Dema]

Just lol. Serbs in Serbia, even Serbs far from Kosovo and Montenegro have 20% of E1b.

And Serbs have also much more SNP diversity of E1b than Albanians.



Serbs classified as South Slavs have at most 2% of V13.

Montenegrins you are mentioning are Slavicized Albanians and big portion of Slavicised Vlachs....

Sanxhak and Novi Pazar are high in v13 because of Albanian origin..

Also high v13 in Serbian project is because of targeted testing of specific families, from what most are Albanian or Vlach in origin, just as you did with many HGs, mine for example.

Serbs should have around 10% of V13 in reality and everything above 1-2% of V13 among Serbs are recently assimilated Albanian, Vlach, Bulgarian and other populations..


For example you are Serb, while your friend Europa Nazione is only assimilated into Serb ethnos recently when South Slavs arrived on Balkan and started to assimilate natives..



Also for example Vasojevici is Vlach clan while Kuqi is Albanian. Nothing Serbian there but ok, you can claim whatever you want,,

[Jackson78]

Serbs classified as South Slavs have at most 2% of V13.

Montenegrins you are mentioning are Slavicized Albanians and big portion of Slavicised Vlachs....

Sanxhak and Novi Pazar are high in v13 because of Albanian origin..

Also high v13 in Serbian project is because of targeted testing of specific families, from what most are Albanian or Vlach in origin, just as you did with many HGs, mine for example.

Serbs should have around 10% of V13 in reality and everything above 1-2% of V13 among Serbs are recently assimilated Albanian, Vlach, Bulgarian and other populations..


For example you are Serb, while your friend Europa Nazione is only assimilated into Serb ethnos recently when South Slavs arrived on Balkan and started to assimilate natives..



Also for example Vasojevici is Vlach clan while Kuqi is Albanian. Nothing Serbian there but ok, you can claim whatever you want,,

:picard1:

[Jackson78]

I dont belive in this map. It show south Serbia as highly concentrated, by logic becouse is closest to Kosovo, but actualy people from this region are mostly origin from Herzegovina, which means they have far less E1b and more I2a. They also look different than Kosovo Serbs and Albanians.

People from southern Serbia are not from Herzegovina by origin.

[Vožd]

Serbs classified as South Slavs have at most 2% of V13.

Montenegrins you are mentioning are Slavicized Albanians and big portion of Slavicised Vlachs....

Sanxhak and Novi Pazar are high in v13 because of Albanian origin..

Also high v13 in Serbian project is because of targeted testing of specific families, from what most are Albanian or Vlach in origin, just as you did with many HGs, mine for example.

Serbs should have around 10% of V13 in reality and everything above 1-2% of V13 among Serbs are recently assimilated Albanian, Vlach, Bulgarian and other populations..


For example you are Serb, while your friend Europa Nazione is only assimilated into Serb ethnos recently when South Slavs arrived on Balkan and started to assimilate natives..



Also for example Vasojevici is Vlach clan while Kuqi is Albanian. Nothing Serbian there but ok, you can claim whatever you want,,

Albanians have arround 40% E1b, so 60% is not Albanian by your logic?

[Dema]

:picard1:

Its true....

Serbs just as all South Slavs split out of Early Slavs arriving in 6th and 7th century...


For example Slovenes assimilated I1 population and they have high portion of it, while Serbs assimilated V13 population so they are high in it while Slovens are not.

Serbs are even today vastly assimilating Albanian population which is raising their V13...
Do you know that Slovenes also split out of Early Slavs and their I2a and R1a matches rest of South Slavs while they have at most 1-3% of E-v13?


The only Serbian V13 SNPS that you mentioned can be these from Ukraine and Russia, Poland,, V13 goes there up to few percent..


E-v13 Serbs you are mentioning are Slavicized Albanians and Vlachs only recently few centuries back. Just as every fucking J2b1 Serb was Vlach just few centuries back that considered Serb language, ethnos, and culture very alien.

[Vožd]

People from southern Serbia are not from Herzegovina by origin.

From dinaric region and Kosovo, but mostly from dinaric, this is reason why they have 41% I and "only" 15% E1b.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/S._Srbija.pdf/page1-748px-S._Srbija.pdf.jpg

[Dema]

Albanians have arround 40% E1b, so 60% is not Albanian by your logic?


Ofc they are, why wouldn't they be?

[Oneeye]

You really have no other hobby in life...?

Nope. Y haplogroup genotardia takes up all my free time.

[Rethel]

Nope. Y haplogroup genotardia takes up all my free time.

But it would be wise to focus on E1b rather on me.

[Oneeye]

But it would be wise to focus on E1b rather on me.

:picard1:

[Messier 67]

Hitler's haplogroup

And Napoleon.

[Cristiano viejo]

Ahhh... that African haplogroup...

[kingjohn]

And Napoleon.

and Albert Einstein who was also e1b1b1-z830 natuffian.

[DarknessWin]

E1b v13 was like G, it was the pre-Indo-European element. Indo Europeans were the R1b who later (end of Neolithic or some times later) assimilated the natives and imposed a language on them.
Original E1b or V13 should have had a Afro-Asiatic type language similar to what was spoken by Egyptian Pharoahs.

EV13 is Indoeuropean

You post maps from Eupedia but you dont read their posts about EV13 in Europe

https://i.imgur.com/CUz4KxJ.png

[DarknessWin]

Not really, Neolithic Europe yielded mostly I1, I2 and G.

If V13 origin was Europe then it must have been some isolated tribe because its absent in Neolithic Europe except of few strange places like one Neolithic sample from Spanish Cave..


V13 origin is still unknown, but its 100% sure that it had Bronze Age expansion just as R1b and R1a.

Also look at V13 map that i posted its funny that Basque region does not have V13 and their language is indeed pre Indo-European.




V13 is just as Indo Euopean just as R1a and R1b. Its Bronze age invaders genociding European natives...


Hence why I1, which is found in Paleolithic and Neolithic Europe, which is formed 27500 years ago but has TMRCA only 4600 years.. Bronze age genocide..

Ofc V13 later also somewhat spread with Romans too... But that expansion is insignificant when in compare to IE one.


first time i see you educated and dont tell bullcrap that EV13 is African.
Well done , EV13 spread to Europe along with R1 and this is the truth

[DarknessWin]

Natufian pride world wide.

Eat your heart out, Rethel.

Natufians were not EV13,
EV13 in near east are from Romans and Alexander the Great.

Read Eupedia

[DarknessWin]

In the long journey of mankind which started either somewhere around Sudan or maybe Yemen, the ancestors of Ev13 didnt travel all way to Middle East, North India, China, Siberia and to the steppe, like the others did.

Ev13 stayed in North Africa then they moved to Europe during the Neolithic.

The R, N, Q etc are those who made the long journey and came through Siberia and the steppes. They left the C behind them as Chinese and Mongols.

Ev13 were originally Hamitic (Afro-Asiatic) who were later assimilated by Japhetic (IE). That's how I suppose.

:picard2:
EV13 in Africa are just 1-5% and it is from Roman and Greek colonies.
Its not native there but came from Europe

North African is EM81 , different Haplo

[DarknessWin]

And Napoleon.

And Mussolini,
And Giuseppe Garibaldi

https://swh-826d.kxcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Guiseppe-Garibaldi-1.jpg

Also they claim Vlad Tepes and Alexander the Great were also EV13

That's why they called it "Haplogroup of Dictactors"

[Hevo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)

Haplogroup P1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_P1_(Y-DNA)) (P-M45), the immediate ancestor of Haplogroup R, likely emerged in Southeast Asia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asia).

That is based on modern diversity and that can be misleading in some cases. For example, the case about R1a1a from India/Iran based on modern diversity is proven wrong by ancient dna. Ancient DNA= key.

[Rethel]

EV13 is Indoeuropean

:picard2:

[Böri]

EV13 is Indoeuropean

You post maps from Eupedia but you dont read their posts about EV13 in Europe


Nah doesn't make sense. On British isles, especially where you have Celtic speakers left the Ev13 are also missing.
If Ev13 was from Kurgan you would also find east of Urals but that's not existent.
If Ev13 was from Kurgan you would find in little amounts in Chechens and Dagestanis but they are Ev-13 free, similar to north Russians and most Finns.

Ev13 were Indo-Europeanized through elite dominance during the Bronze Age.
Earlier, during the neolithic the Ev13 were all in North Africa, toward the end of the Neolithic age Europe became a warmer continent. Ev13 folks sent scouts to the Balkans and noticed the land was favorable for agriculture.
Then masses of Ev13 agriculturalists moved to the Balkans and settled there, later they moved northward and expanded.

Ev13 who stayed in Africa created the Egyptian civilization.
Maybe it was the Ev13 who brought statehood from Egypt to Greece (Mycenaean Crete) and then expanded it to Europe? But the J2 would also enter in the equation.

[DarknessWin]

Nah doesn't make sense. On British isles, especially where you have Celtic speakers left the Ev13 are also missing.
If Ev13 was from Kurgan you would also find east of Urals but that's not existent.
If Ev13 was from Kurgan you would find in little amounts in Chechens and Dagestanis but they are Ev-13 free, similar to north Russians and most Finns.

Ev13 were Indo-Europeanized through elite dominance during the Bronze Age.
Earlier, during the neolithic the Ev13 were all in North Africa, toward the end of the Neolithic age Europe became a warmer continent. Ev13 folks sent scouts to the Balkans and noticed the land was favorable for agriculture.
Then masses of Ev13 agriculturalists moved to the Balkans and settled there, later they moved northward and expanded.

Ev13 who stayed in Africa created the Egyptian civilization.
Maybe it was the Ev13 who brought statehood from Egypt to Greece (Mycenaean Crete) and then expanded it to Europe?

You continue to speak nonsense and bullshit, EV13 not exist in Africa and never existed.
The few EV13 found in Africa are from Europeans (Romans-Greeks) soldiers and colonies.

Egypt were not EV13, stop speak nonsense
Read Eupedia and study Anthropology

I will post this again until you study it:

https://i.imgur.com/2G15L4W.png

P.S. EV13 exist in Kurgan
http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-V13.gif

[Rethel]

https://i.imgur.com/2G15L4W.png

Did you missed to underline: "from circa 2500 BC". :picard2:

And majority of assumptions here are based on: could be, maybe, probably... :picard1:

And the same Leftpedia claims, that R1 is the only IE marker, so if you read something, read it all.

[DarknessWin]

Did you missed to underline: "from circa 2500 BC". :picard2:

And majority of assumptions here are based on: could be, maybe, probably... :picard1:

And the same Leftpedia claims, that R1 is the only IE marker, so if you read something, read it all.


its Leftpedia because it not support your bullshit about arian race but they say the truth.
R1 came from India, assimilated with other european haplogroups and start the migrations in europe

That's why everyone speak Indoeuropean Language, all of these haplogroups lived and moved together,
Married together and have the same language

EV13 were the leading society in Indoeuropean Bronze age

Deal with it , it dont matter if it came from Asia or not.
I believe that native European haplogroups were the leading force,
R1 people came from India were swarthy midgets that time

EV13 people were white and that's why they maybe make them their kings and leaders
and maybe the "Arian" light skin theory start from there

EV13 were the people with vitamin D demiciency and white skin

https://i.imgur.com/DIJ9mgZ.png

The real "Arians" and R1 people were swarthy people look like modern day Indians


https://i.imgur.com/By75oWE.jpg


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/India_-_Varanasi_Swastika_-_0425.jpg/800px-India_-_Varanasi_Swastika_-_0425.jpg

https://www.indiadivine.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/swastika-02.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wlU3SNC.jpg

[Böri]

P.S. EV13 exist in Kurgan
http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-V13.gif

But why it doesn't exist among Celtics of Brittany, Cornwall, Scotch Gaelic; or also among Lithuanians who have Sanskrit-like language? It's zero in them. Also missing in Iceland.
You see a concentration of Ev13 in the Balkans and a decreasing expansion toward central and eastern Europe.
So the starting point can't be Kurgan logically.

Ev13: native, pre-IE, agriculturalist Balkan natives who didn't make the long journey of mankind (Red Sea - ME - North India- SE Asia - China - Siberia).
Ev13 stayed near Red sea, moved to Egypt. Then they waited the climate gets warmer and moved into Europe during the Neolithic.
That makes more sense than IE Kurgan theory.

[DarknessWin]

But why it doesn't exist among Celtics of Brittany, Cornwall, Scotch Gaelic; or also among Lithuanians who have Sanskrit-like language? It's zero in them. Also missing in Iceland.
You see a concentration of Ev13 in the Balkans and a decreasing expansion toward central and eastern Europe.
So the starting point can't be Kurgan logically.

Ev13: native, pre-IE, agriculturalist Balkan natives who didn't make the long journey of mankind (Red Sea - ME - North India- SE Asia - China - Siberia).
Ev13 stayed near Red sea, moved to Egypt. Then they waited the climate gets warmer and moved into Europe during the Neolithic.
That makes more sense than IE Kurgan theory.


See again the map , it dont exist only in Iceland because "indoeuropeans" never made it there
icelanders are I1 native europeans

Egypt again?? Are you idiot or something???
EV13 dont exist there

If is came from Egypt, then it must be there over 10-20% at least

EV13 its native balkan and mixed with indoeuropeans , then moved in all europe
and was the leading society of bronze age

Its all theories anyway, many people (including me) believe that R1 from India
were swarthy people and became white european because they mixed with native europeans

[kingjohn]

mussolini wasn't e1b1b1
there is no confirmation that he was e1b1b1 anywhere ......
garibaldi yes
also the house of savoy were e1b1b1 v13 balkanid
now let me clean the mess
the ancestor of e-v13 e-L618 was found in neolithic dalmatia

Impresso pottery Croatia Zemunica Cave [I3948] M 5600-5470 BCE 769991 E1b1b1a1b1 E1b1b1a1b1:CTS3287:14801129A->G; E1b1b1a1b1:CTS5291:16189080T->G; E1b1b1a1b1:CTS5527:16345952A->G; E1b1b1a1b1:CTS7273:17396160C->T; E1b1b1a1b1:L618:15339697T->C; E1b1b1a1b1:PF2215:8262442A->G; E1b1b1a1b1:PF2246:22073053G->A; E1b1b1a:CTS8899:18538216C->A; E1b1b1a:L546:17516070C->T; E1b1b1a:PF2108:7804308C->T; E1b1b1a:PF2114:8232450C->A; E1b1b1a:PF2173:21036413C->T; E1b1b1a:PF2178:21583211C->A; E1b1b1a:PF2188:22080316G->A; E1b1b1:CTS2216:14221285G->T; E1b1b1:CTS3637:15089380A->G; E1b1b1:CTS6298:16808859A->G; E1b1b1:CTS6834:17138251A->G; E1b1b1:CTS7154:17325559G->T; E1b1b1:CTS9956:19170454C->T; E1b1b1:CTS10184:19316389A->T; E1b1b1:L796:21358197T->C; E1b1b1:M5041:21491115A->G; E1b1b1:M5047:21977569C->T; E1b1b1:M5078:7721674G->A; E1b1b1:M5108:8880108G->A; E1b1b1:M5322:22181731G->A; E1b1b1:M5360:23618826C->T; E1b1b1:PF1575:9389773T->G; E1b1b1:PF1619:13848122T->C; E1b1b:CTS225:2827409C->T; E1b1b:CTS8479.1:18045601C->T; E1b1b:CTS9049:18637397C->G; E1b1b:CTS10513:19503700T->C; E1b1b:CTS10679:22700429G->A; E1b1b:CTS11223:23021729G->A; E1b1b:L336:21903853G->A; E1b1b:M5082:7905833C->T; E1b1b:M5083:7906010A->G; E1b1b:M5101:8692771C->T; E1b1b:M5305:21658631G->C; E1b1:P2:21610831G->A; E1:CTS955:7104553C->T; E1:CTS5913:16550700G->A; E1:CTS9083:18662674G->A; E1:CTS9753:19058376G->A; E:CTS860:7052802A->T; E:CTS2893:14545105G->A; etc N1a1 source Mathieson 2017


also avellander cave iberia
Epicardial Spain Avellaner cave, Catalonia [Ave 07] M 5000 BC E1b1b1a1b1a M35.1, V13, Ei in STR table U5 16051G; 16189C; 16270T source :Lacan 2011b

and we have e-m78 in sopot culture
Sopot (proto Lengyel) Hungary Bicske-Galagonyás [BICS 4]
5000-4800 BC E1b1b1a1 M78 H39 16299g Szécsényi-Nagy 2015 thesis

so this hapologroup have been in europe for along long time much before the indo european who came from the steppe
you are correct though that the natufian not belong to e-v13 :)
they belong to e-z830 the ancestor of m123-m34 the middle eastern version of e1b1b1 who descendnents from e-z827

E1b1b1b has been identified among Natufians, and later among Levantine PPNB

Natufian Israel Raqefet Cave, Mount Carmel [I1072 / Nat 9] M 11840-9760 BCE E1b1b1b2 Z830 (xE1b1b1b2a, E1b1b1b2b) CTS8182+, CTS11781+ (E1b1b1b2), (CTS1652-, CTS11051-, CTS11574-) N1b ? source: Lazaridis 2016

Natufian Israel Raqefet Cave, Mount Carmel [I0861 / Nat 10] M 11840-9760 BCE E1b1b1b2 Z830 (xE1b1b1b2a, E1b1b1b2b) L336+ (E1b1b), M5108+, CTS3637+, CTS7154+, PF1755+, L796+ (E1b1b1), CTS11781+ (E1b1b1b2), (L857-, Z865-)
sourece: Lazaridis 2016


hope i clarify a little bit .......

[Rethel]

its Leftpedia because it not support

It is leftpedia, becasue promotes leftism with the biggotry higher tham among ISIS.


your bullshit about arian race but they say the truth.

Where I said anything ever about aryan race? WHERE??


R1 came from India, assimilated with other european haplogroups and start the migrations in europe

That's why everyone speak Indoeuropean Language, all of these haplogroups lived and moved together,
Married together and have the same language

EV13 were the leading society in Indoeuropean Bronze age

Deal with it , it dont matter if it came from Asia or not.
I believe that native European haplogroups were the leading force,
R1 people came from India were swarthy midgets that time

EV13 people were white and that's why they maybe make them their kings and leaders
and maybe the "Arian" light skin theory start from there

EV13 were the people with vitamin D demiciency and white skin


The real "Arians" and R1 people were swarthy people look like modern day Indians


:picard1:

So butthurt, for not being an IE, that has to create a new fairy tales...
stop being selfhater and deal with your own people.

[Rethel]

mussolini wasn't e1b1b1
there is no confirmation that he was e1b1b1 anywhere ......
garibaldi yes
also the house of savoy were e1b1b1 v13 balkanid


I do not trust Leftpedia, until there was no clear eveidence.
There is a lot of fake news about who had what hg based on Maciamo fantasy.
.

[Tschaikisten]

For example you are Serb, while your friend Europa Nazione is only assimilated into Serb ethnos recently when South Slavs arrived on Balkan and started to assimilate natives..


:D

[kingjohn]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_haplogroups_of_historic_people

so who do you trust ?
there is no end to this
maciamo belong to r1b what agedna/interese do you think he have to promote that garibaldi was e-v13 .....
even in eupedia no mention on mussolini who said he was e-v13 nowhere i saw it none of his relatives was tested to this haplogroup ....
more than llikely he was j or r1b .....

[Hashoeva]

Its obvious that haplogroup E1b and its sub-clades are of near-eastern / north(east)-african origins. Its the original Afroasiatic haplogroup carried by those who belonged to that language family like semites, berbers, ancient egyptians, etc.

[Rethel]

maciamo belong to r1b what agedna/interese do you think he have to promote that garibaldi was e-v13 .....

No agenda, but blind wanting to have as many people as possible on his famous list.

For example, he put gagarin, as a member of Rurykowiczes family - not carrying about
the fact, that Gagarin is quite common surname, a nickname, which have only one small
branch of this family. Luckily, I could persuade him. BUT in the case for example of the
Habsburgs he is deaf to any reason. He thinks, that people in Swiss, who bear similar
surname are their relatives - it is false, becasue the surname is taken from the village,
and the habsburgs, were not from the Habsburg in Swiss at all. They were from Alsass,
and had nothing common with local people, over whom they rule.

Similar story now is with Hohenzollerns, who are made I2, only on some not proven interenet
claim, that some bastards were the offspring of some hohenzollern's prince - when nowhere
it can be even found, that he was in any relationship with such person which claim he was.

The last proven error of his was the Tesla, who was putted to I2 tribe only, becasue he found
similar surname in the FT project, totally being careless of the fact, that guy was adopted... :picard1:

Finaly, tesla was revealed to be R1.


even in eupedia no mention on mussolini who said he was e-v13

For only mention that in Wikipedia Mussolini is described as E1, I was threaten to be banned.
And I only said, that it is written here and here - as I would claim this or promote... :picard1:
They are leftistic fascist freaks on the hormons there...


more than llikely he was j or r1b .....

It is not known, who he was, neither it is not known, from where such claim comes.
He could be anything, as everybody before the test. No sense in guessing.

[kingjohn]

Its obvious that haplogroup E1b and its sub-clades are of near-eastern / north(east)-african origins. Its the original Afroasiatic haplogroup carried by those who belonged to that language family like semites, berbers, ancient egyptians, etc.

e1b1b m35 was in 5000 bc in moroco nuch before there was even a term called berber

hic Morocco Ifri n'Amr or Moussa [IAM.4] M 5300 cal BC E-M35 U6a1b 73G 263G 750G 1438G 2706G 2887C 3107N 3348G 4769G 7028T 7805A 8670G 8860G 9165C 11467G 11719A 12308G 12372A 14179G 14766T 14927G 15326G 16172C 16219G 16235G 16274A 16278T 16311C 16362C source: Fregal 2017


Early Neolithic Morocco Ifri n'Amr or Moussa [IAM.5] M 5000 cal BC E-M35 U6a1b 73G 263G 750G 1438G 2706G 2887C 3107N 3348G 4769G 7028T 7805A 8670G 8860G 9165C 11467G 11719A 12308G 12372A 14179G 14766T 14927G 15326G 16172C 16219G 16235G 16274A 16278T 16311C 16362C sorce :Fregal 2017


Regarding the paternal lineages, IAM individuals carry Y-chromosomes distantly related to the typically North African E-M81 haplogroup, while the Y chromosome from KEB belongs to the T-M184 haplogroup; though scarce and broadly distributed today, this haplogroup has also been observed in European Neolithic individuals (Supplementary Note 5). Both mtDNA and Y-chromosome lineages (K1, J2 and T2 haplogroups, and G-M201 haplogroup, respectively) for samples from TOR/BOT (Iberian Early Neolithic) are similar to those observed in Europe during Neolithic times. source: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/09/21/191569


i am not sure the natuffians spoke afro-asiatic language .....

[kingjohn]

rethel can i see a source who say mussolini was e1b1b1 ?

[Laberia]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_haplogroups_of_historic_people

so who do you trust ?
there is no end to this
maciamo belong to r1b what agedna/interese do you think he have to promote that garibaldi was e-v13 .....
even in eupedia no mention on mussolini who said he was e-v13 nowhere i saw it none of his relatives was tested to this haplogroup ....
more than llikely he was j or r1b .....

The big guys, the big universities, when they decide to enter in this game. Bloggers, forums, etc, are not credible sources. We have for example sources from the middle ages that are called anonymus, usually because for example there is not the cover and the first pages of the book and we don`t know who is the author and for this reason we call it anonymus. But an anonymus in XXI century?

[Rethel]

rethel can i see a source who say mussolini was e1b1b1 ?

Here: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D1%83%D 0%BF%D0%BF%D0%B0_E1b1b_(Y-%D0%94%D0%9D%D0%9A)#.D0.98.D0.B7.D0.B2.D0.B5.D1.81 .D1.82.D0.BD.D1.8B.D0.B5_.D0.BF.D1.80.D0.B5.D0.B4. D1.81.D1.82.D0.B0.D0.B2.D0.B8.D1.82.D0.B5.D0.BB.D0 .B8

Btw, some Engels was tested V13, but it is not known if he was related to the infamous one.

[Dema]

first time i see you educated and dont tell bullcrap that EV13 is African.
Well done , EV13 spread to Europe along with R1 and this is the truth

Show some respect pleb, you are not talking to your friends on a market.

[Chev Chelios]

E1b Y-DNA in Europe = descendant of African Horners or Natufians in Europe

Hey haplotards! How does it feel when you take a DNA test and the result reveals you're E? Acting as a White supremacist while your grandfathers were non-White. xD

[kingjohn]

feal great :)
i don't need you or anyone confirmation
more than liklely that the e-v13 who came to europe from antolia
carried slc24a5 a/a and other white skin allells .......
my haplogroup is e-m34 exist in the horn you should not put all e1b1b1 in one boat
e-v13 is the mother of europe
and e-m34 was found in bronze age armenia

Middle Bronze Age Armenia Nerquin Getashen [RISE423] M 1402-1211 BC 391,520 E1b E1b1b1b2a1a (L795) T2a 73G, 195C, 263G, 709A, 750G, 1438G, 2706G, 3107T, 4917G, 6006T, 7028T, 8697A, 10463C, 11251G, 11719A, 11812G, 13368A, 13965C, 14233G, 14766T, 14905A, 15326G, 15452A, 15607G, 15928A, 16126C, 16294T, 16296T, 16519C Allentoft 2015; Y-DNA personal communication from author + add info from Steve Fix

and probably descxendents from those e-z830 natufians
who were in the levant much bvefore was even one j1 in the area
j1 came in the chl period and brought with him iran- neolithic admixture ......
buttom line happy about it ....

[Rethel]

Hey haplotards! How does it feel when you take a DNA test and the result reveals you're E? Acting as a White supremacist while your grandfathers were non-White. xD

No haplotards but whit'otards, racists, nazis whatever. Haplotism doesn;t look at race.

But as you can see here, many nazis here were not what they wanted to be... :)

Btw, majority of white supremasists are probably not R1 :laugh:

[kingjohn]

me a nazi are you kidding
you are the one with the r1a propaganda ... :D
any way the source for mussolini is not convincing at all
it just writen e1b1b1 next to his name in russian
in russian site .....

[Root]

https://i.hizliresim.com/jQVLDG.jpg

Kosovo 47,5%
Albania 27,5%
Montenegro 27%
Bulgaria 23,5%
Macedonia 21,5%
Greece 21%
Serbia 15%
Portugal 14%
Romania 14%
Italy 13,5%
Bosnia 11,5% (9% in Bosniaks and Croats; but 17,5% in Serbs)


Red Sea origins & Neolithic expansion

Haplogroup E1b1b (formerly known as E3b) represents the last major direct migration from Africa into Europe. It is believed to have first appeared in the Horn of Africa approximately 26,000 years ago and dispersed to North Africa and the Near East during the late Paleolithic and Mesolithic periods. E-M78 and E-Z827 originated respectively at 20,000 years and 24,000 years. E1b1b lineages are closely linked to the diffusion of Afroasiatic languages.

Lazaridis et al. (2016) tested the first ancient DNA samples from the Mesolithic Natufian culture in Israel, possibly the world's oldest sedentary community, and found that the male individuals belonged either to haplogroups CT or E1b1 (including two E1b1b1b2 samples). These are to date the oldest known E1b1b individuals. The same haplogroups show up in Pre-Pottery Neolithic B Jordan, accompanied by new haplogroups (H2 and T).


Source: Eupedia





Kosovo is in black color lol

[kingjohn]

by the way if i go back far enough R1 was a gook from asia :)
......
so assholes becarfull when you use the term white here .....

i-m170 are the true europeans
and e-v13 brought them civilization .... :cool:

[DarknessWin]

It is leftpedia, becasue promotes leftism with the biggotry higher tham among ISIS.



Where I said anything ever about aryan race? WHERE??



:picard1:

So butthurt, for not being an IE, that has to create a new fairy tales...
stop being selfhater and deal with your own people.

Fairytales??? I post proofs but you post nothing.
You tell fairytales.

Yeah i am butthurt because i want to be an Indian Paki asian and not native european.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Are you for real?? R1 came to europe and ruled from EV13, deal with it

Most warriors,dictactors and kings were EV13

You dont speak about aryan but Hitler did and with his fairytales connected Indoeuropean Pakis with Aryan theories
of Nordic looking people. In reallity R1 people are the most short in Europe and not Nordic so DEAL WITH THIS

Garibaldi was warrior hero, look Nordic and was EV13 of course,
not Paki R1.
I am I2 native european and i have way more respect to EV13 than paki R1

[DarknessWin]

Its obvious that haplogroup E1b and its sub-clades are of near-eastern / north(east)-african origins. Its the original Afroasiatic haplogroup carried by those who belonged to that language family like semites, berbers, ancient egyptians, etc.

We speak about EV13 here , EV13 have very few numbers in Near East and it is there from romans and greeks.
So it is not Afroasiatic , semitic or berber

Berbers are EM81
Palestinian-Jewish are EM123

[Rethel]

by the way if i go back far enough R1 was a gook from asia :)
......
so assholes becarfull when you use the term white here .....

You do know that continent does not make you white or black... don't you?
And we are rather from Ural (inculding large part of eastern Europe
plus caspian steppes) rather than Asia per se.



i-m170 are the true europeans

C1 were earlier, and both groups were blackish.


and e-v13 brought them civilization .... :cool:

Wishfull thinking. EV13 was only in Greece, maybe originaly even only
on some islands. Before IEs living there plazgians (probably EV13) and
others were not too much developed (excluding Crete).

[kingjohn]

http://i023.radikal.ru/1207/f3/e562f5c5cc1d.jpg

semetic m123 +berberid e-m81 descendnets from e-z827
and european e-v13 is descendnets from e-v68
e-z827 and e-v68 are 2 different branches of e1b1b1 m35 ....... origin in the horn area .....
but some clades were in south west asia and southern europe for thousands of years important to remmber ......

[Rethel]

Most warriors,dictactors and kings were EV13

https://media.tenor.com/images/0489fb2f025d80cb993ac1e2712682fa/tenor.gif

Sensless debate with you as always...
Btw, you are very insecure and complexes - you are showing this
with every post more and more. You do not even see it. :picard1:

Btw, since when hg matter - you just nagate your previous statements. :picard2:
But I do not suspect any coherent thought from you... don;t worry. :)

[firemonkey]

I'm E-V13-E-L17-E-Z16664. Known ancestry is British isles. I have no idea where E-Z1664 originates from. I can find little info about it.

[Rethel]

by the way if i go back far enough R1 was a gook from asia :)

Btw, ALL hgs come from Asia, since Ararat and Shinaar are in Asia...

The problem with R1 is, that it is hard to say, were was the first and the last common camp of that tribe (the same as any other hg, but because other are more stationary than we, it is easier to make their urururheimat probable. But it is really irrelevant where it was. Could be even in Tasmania, and people would be still the same. I have no problem with locality or I do not care about being original european at all - becasue it has no sense. Only some insecure people with deep complexes (like Darknesswinn) or some weired nazi agendalists, like some laudly I1s and E1s here - have some alsomt mistical ties to this subject. If they would have to admit that they ate not euro they would go crazy probably. Maybe they think, that european soil has some magical whitenning powers :laugh:

[kingjohn]

for me r1 will always be a gook
it was the last card :)
so i don't understand from what this person say that to people who discover they are e1b1b1 or e-v13
to be sad or something
nothing wrong with that you can continue with your r1a propagnda
but r1 was gook and it is conected to haplogrop q which is damn mongoloid through haplogroup p there ancestor ....
haplogroup i-m170 were the original europeans and most important nothing gookish about this haplogroup :)

p.s
now i know why many europeans go to thiland they are attracted to gooks ....

now people will call me here kike and stuff fuck off i don't fucking care .....

e1b1b blood of the kings https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Prince_Roland_Bonaparte_3641567004_c517894947_o.jp g/300px-Prince_Roland_Bonaparte_3641567004_c517894947_o.jp g

[Rethel]

me a nazi are you kidding

And where I wrote such thing? :picard1:


you are the one with the r1a propaganda ... :D

Not R1a but R1, and not propaganda, but simply an interest.


any way the source for mussolini is not convincing at all
it just writen e1b1b1 next to his name in russian
in russian site .....

I did not say it is convincing, did I?
You asked about source, and I showed you where it is.
Why are you constantly prescribing things
to your interlocutors, which were not told? :picard2:

[Philip Latinowitz]

@Rethel

how can R1 be elite marker when most males in Europe carry it ? :D

For something to be considered elite, it needs to be minor lineage.

[Rethel]

e1b1b blood of the kings

Only one, who was unable to remain at the throne and to establish the dynasty.
even his "successor" was not from his own family... :bored:

[Rethel]

@Rethel

how can R1 be elite marker when most males in Europe carry it ? :D

Where I said such thing?


For something to be considered elite, it needs to be minor lineage.

You are absolutly right. But it also should be important.
But majority of countries has this small amount of R1. :)
Actually all countries in the world (exept these with majority).

[Philip Latinowitz]

Where I said such thing?



You are absolutly right. But it also should be important.
But majority of countries has this small amount of R1. :)
Actually all countries in the world (exept these with majority).

R1 is dominant pretty much everywhere in europe except in balkans & scandinavia
I'd give higher chance to E1b to be IE rulling class since it's rare everyhwere except in south balkans (probably founder effect)

[kingjohn]

majority dose not mean quality
you just came as gooks and kiled many I-M170 true europeans
but the gookish origin is there
go to fucking china ........

p.s
at least he was not gook ....
can i see a picture of you if you are such ubermenchen
you all speak behind photos of your heroes
take your balls and show us all your damn face little haydrich ......

[Rethel]

R1 is dominant pretty much everywhere in europe except in balkans & scandinavia

I said about the world.


I'd give higher chance to E1b to be IE rulling class since it's rare everyhwere except in south balkans (probably founder effect)

Some rulers of course probably were E1,
especially in later periods, but it cannot
be said it was a rule, becasue werent.

[Philip Latinowitz]

I said about the world.



Some rulers of course probably were E1,
especially in later periods, but it cannot
be said it was a rule, becasue werent.

No point to speak about entire planet when they're different race than Euros therefore carry other haplogroups

Among whites R1 is clearly no.1

[kingjohn]

what most important that r1a1 and r1b were a big slaves of hitler e1b1-v13
this your legacy slaves of ideology slaves of one man .......

[DarknessWin]

Show some respect pleb, you are not talking to your friends on a market.

Respect to an idiot like you???
Suck my dick and fuck your mother

fucking gay

[DarknessWin]

E1b Y-DNA in Europe = descendant of African Horners or Natufians in Europe

Hey haplotards! How does it feel when you take a DNA test and the result reveals you're E? Acting as a White supremacist while your grandfathers were non-White. xD

So all great leaders of europe and great civilization made from Africans???
Go suck the dick of Alexander the Great and Napoleon moron

[Mikula]

Hitler's haplogroup


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZVeAAUaD0M

[kingjohn]

they reduced your number
made you go to shalters in west balkan and scandinavia
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/78/60/e7/7860e7dabfe7fed1c79d943ba2eb0922.jpg
but you will rise back one day ...... :)

[DarknessWin]

for me r1 will always be a gook
it was the last card :)
so i don't understand from what this person say that to people who discover they are e1b1b1 or e-v13
to be sad or something
nothing wrong with that you can continue with your r1a propagnda
but r1 was gook and it is conected to haplogrop q which is damn mongoloid through haplogroup p there ancestor ....
haplogroup i-m170 were the original europeans and most important nothing gookish about this haplogroup :)

p.s
now i know why many europeans go to thiland they are attracted to gooks ....

now people will call me here kike and stuff fuck off i don't fucking care .....

e1b1b blood of the kings https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Prince_Roland_Bonaparte_3641567004_c517894947_o.jp g/300px-Prince_Roland_Bonaparte_3641567004_c517894947_o.jp g

R1 have nothing to offer, but EV13 have great personalities.
Rethel believe in aryan bullshit and indoeuropean theory

In reality R1a (his haplo) came from India and Pakistan

[Philip Latinowitz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZVeAAUaD0M

lol epic :cool:

[DarknessWin]

https://media.tenor.com/images/0489fb2f025d80cb993ac1e2712682fa/tenor.gif

Sensless debate with you as always...
Btw, you are very insecure and complexes - you are showing this
with every post more and more. You do not even see it. :picard1:

Btw, since when hg matter - you just nagate your previous statements. :picard2:
But I do not suspect any coherent thought from you... don;t worry. :)

You are butthurt because the most famous R1a man is Mamnoon Hussain while EV13 have Napoleon,Hitler,Mussolini,Alexander,Garibaldi

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Mamnoon_Hussain_2014.jpg

[kingjohn]

You are butthurt because the most famous R1a man is Mamnoon Hussain while EV13 have Napoleon,Hitler,Mussolini,Alexander,Garibaldi

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Mamnoon_Hussain_2014.jpg

they have tom hanks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Hanks
green mile lol .......

[Philip Latinowitz]

In reality R1a (his haplo) came from India and Pakistan

R1a came to India from steppe, but R comes from Siberia originally

[DarknessWin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZVeAAUaD0M

Nonsense, Meditid/Somalids are not EV13
Also Coon and other anthropologist have Meditid/Somalids in Caucasian race
so they are not Niggers but Caucasians adjust to african heat (black skin)



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Sara_Nuru_01.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKKgAgc0MZt4LfxRiRdbwvSU9b5-jsW-U7yDILs_UqfO4U2nDQjg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTjZ2G0Uvhc1U5BZIwRb5Juq0oUtjo7Q i5lL1ZvC4tzBJXy1Aso

https://i.imgur.com/a2je85V.png

Somalians look like dark Berbers, have caucasian features with dark skin

The real Niggers are the Nigerians and Cameroonians , and Nigerians-Cameroonians belong to R1b haplogroup
Especially Hunza people of Sudan 40% R1b
Fulani people and Chalid tribes (Nigeria-Cameroon)frequency of R1b ranging from 30% to 95%

http://www.rogerblench.info/Language/Afroasiatic/Chadic/West/Mwaghavul/ES/Images/Festivals/Wus%20festival%2C%20Mangu%202008/Wus%20festival%2C%20Mangu%2C%20February%202008/images/pict0045.jpg


https://i.pinimg.com/236x/98/ea/3c/98ea3c2e53e384c153264fc2f7bde90a.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/L3zLxsL.jpg

Somalians are caucasian White compare to R1b nigerian-cameroonians. LOL

[DarknessWin]

they have tom hanks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Hanks
green mile lol .......
LOL
Napoleon EV13 vs Benjamin Netanyahu R1a

[Rethel]

while EV13 have (...) Alexander

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0MYunAI4j10uWbFm/source.gif


while EV13 have Napoleon,Hitler,Mussolini, (...),Garibaldi

What to be envy about, if these were commies, masons, leftists and antychristian genociders with OWD? :picard1:

[Rethel]

No point to speak about entire planet when they're different race than Euros therefore carry other haplogroups

But you was saying about minor percentage.
R1 is a minor percentage amongs all non IE countries.


Among whites R1 is clearly no.1

Yes, becasue whites were originally R1, and
all R1 were originally white in modern terminology.

[Rethel]

what most important that r1a1 and r1b were a big slaves of hitler e1b1-v13

Now you are a fun of Hitler? :picard1:
A guy, who similarly as Napoleon, could
not remain at power not too much longer
than a decade being kicked by R1?

And no, he was not V13.
He was cloaser to your clade, as
he was also of jewish provenance.

[DarknessWin]

But you was saying about minor percentage.
R1 is a minor percentage amongs all non IE countries.



Yes, becasue whites were originally R1, and
all R1 were originally white in modern terminology.

R1 are original Asians , wtf are you talking about they came from asia.
I1-I2 are original white europeans

[kingjohn]

not a fun just mention that r1a like you and your cosins r1b were his slaves
and kissed his feet and salute him non stop ....
he was not jewish at all you are talking from your ass now .....
at least i have balls to show my face not hiding under pictures like you
.....

[DarknessWin]

Now you are a fun of Hitler? :picard1:
A guy, who similarly as Napoleon, could
not remain at power not too much longer
than a decade being kicked by R1?

And no, he was not V13.
He was cloaser to your clade, as
he was also of jewish provenance.

not remain at power not too much longer
than a decade being kicked by R1?

LOOOL , kid you have fun.
R1 dont exist in Leaders,
Leonidas and Alexander alone are more than all of your history

[DarknessWin]

not a fun just mention that r1a like you and your cosins r1b were his slaves
and kissed his feet and salute him non stop ....
he was not jewish at all you are talking from your ass now .....
at least i have balls to show my face not hiding under pictures like you
.....

R1 were followers , even Eupedia claim that EV13 were the ruling cast among Indoeuropean tribes
in bronze age society

[kingjohn]

even today the r1a russians follow putin like sheeps
.....

[DarknessWin]

even today the r1a russians follow putin like sheeps
.....

and they are not even europeans,
they dont look caucasian at all but an asian mix

[Philip Latinowitz]

even today the r1a russians follow putin like sheeps
.....

Putin is probably N1c

[kingjohn]

N1 is also gookish they share a common ancestor with haplogroup O{ chinese east asians}

[kingjohn]

which haplogroup this guy belong to
i think he is i-m170 {original europeans}
http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/Cards/Basketball/2159/2159-674250Fr.jpg
original europeans -I-m170
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/BPGCGB/gheorghe-muresan-my-giant-1998-BPGCGB.jpg

[Rethel]

Putin is probably N1c

Maybe is, maybe not - he can be everything.
But until now he pretends to be R1, and this
is all what we know or could assume. I myself
don;t know, it is good or not too much...

[kingjohn]

Maybe is, maybe not - he can be everything.
But until now he pretends to be R1, and this
is all what we know or could assume. I myself
don;t know, it is good or not too much...


looks very much like this n1c estonian gookish politican

https://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaak_Aaviksoo

[Rethel]

looks very much like this n1c estonian gookish politican

https://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaak_Aaviksoo

But Estonians are only 1/3 N. Russians 1/5.

Similarity exists indeed :D

[kingjohn]

you succeded all this forum was suposed to be on e1b1
how did we reach putin n1c and r1a again truly amazing ...... :picard1:

[kingjohn]

bump

[Dema]

Respect to an idiot like you???
Suck my dick and fuck your mother

fucking gay

Typical I2a behavior..

[Rethel]

Typical I2a behavior..

He is I2?
So why he has some inferiority complex towards E1? :laugh:

[Dema]

He is I2?
So why he has some inferiority complex towards E1? :laugh:

IDK, its what it says in his profile..

I was checking Greek project few days ago and noticed they have really decent amount of I2a..

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Greece/default.aspx?section=yresults

[Longobarda]

https://i.hizliresim.com/jQVLDG.jpg

Kosovo 47,5%
Albania 27,5%
Montenegro 27%
Bulgaria 23,5%
Macedonia 21,5%
Greece 21%
Serbia 15%
Portugal 14%
Romania 14%
Italy 13,5%
Bosnia 11,5% (9% in Bosniaks and Croats; but 17,5% in Serbs)


Red Sea origins & Neolithic expansion

Where are the Spanish and French percentages? If you look at the map, Spain has the same colour as Serbia, for example, with a darker spot in the North. The same happens for France. Please write down their percentages. Thanks

[kingjohn]

in north Spain cantabria area 17% of the males carry e-m35
but they carry e-m81 not the european e-v13
e-m81 berbrid is the cousin of e-m34 proto Semitic

[Longobarda]

and Albert Einstein who was also e1b1b1-z830 natuffian.

And Lyndon Johnson

[Longobarda]

in north Spain cantabria area 17% of the males carry e-m35
but they carry e-m81 not the european e-v13
e-m81 berbrid is the cousin of e-m34 proto Semitic


Cantabria in northern Spain has the highest E-M81 of Europe.

V13 is a subclade of M78. Therefore all E-V13 is also M78

68400

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68400&d=1507428825

68401

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68401&d=1507428830

[DarknessWin]

He is I2?
So why he has some inferiority complex towards E1? :laugh:

Because Greece is 20% EV13 .
IDIOT

And many of our ancient Heroes were EV13,
I believe that EV13 is superior to R1 haplos and everyone believe this too after so many
great people carry this haplo.
But noone have R1

Also I haplo are the real europeans ( the real whites).
Not Pakis from R1a

[DarknessWin]

Cantabria in northern Spain has the highest E-M81 of Europe.

V13 is a subclade of M78. Therefore all E-V13 is also M78

68400

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68400&d=1507428825

68401

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68401&d=1507428830

EV13 created in Balkans

[Philip Latinowitz]

Because Greece is 20% EV13 .
IDIOT

And many of our ancient Heroes were EV13,
I believe that EV13 is superior to R1 haplos and everyone believe this too after so many
great people carry this haplo.
But noone have R1

Also I haplo are the real europeans ( the real whites).
Not Pakis from R1a

Greece has lot of R1b :D

[DarknessWin]

Typical I2a behavior..

Typical cuck behavior from R1, you cry like girl.
I2a are native europeans so you must give respect

[DarknessWin]

Greece has lot of R1b :D

North Greece is 31% R1 and 10% I2a
but also 20% EV13

I see not difference in Phenotypes and actually EV13 people here
are more European looking than some types from J2 and R1a

Especially when R1a was Ottoman haplogroup , that's why i dont like it

[Philip Latinowitz]

North Greece is 31% R1 and 10% I2a
but also 20% EV13

I see not difference in Phenotypes and actually EV13 people here
are more European looking than some types from J2 and R1a

Especially when R1a was Ottoman haplogroup , that's why i dont like it

R1a is surely slav, and some could be Dorian ? Turks have Z93 subclade which doesn't exist in Europe AFAIK

what about J2a, in which parts of Greece is it most frequent ? Crete ?

[Rethel]

Especially when R1a was Ottoman haplogroup

So where is this V13 superriority over R1a? :laugh:

[DarknessWin]

R1a is surely slav, and some could be Dorian ? Turks have Z93 subclade which doesn't exist in Europe AFAIK

what about J2a, in which parts of Greece is it most frequent ? Crete ?

I believe R1a is Hunnic and Turkic , it come from asia
R1b came with Celts

J2a its native Mediterranean from Sea People ,Romans,Byzantines etc.
Crete is the island of Sea People (Philistines) and so it most elevated there

[DarknessWin]

So where is this V13 superriority over R1a? :laugh:

because it fucked everyone come close to Balkans

[Rethel]

because it fucked everyone come close to Balkans

So why not Osmans?

[Dema]

Typical cuck behavior from R1, you cry like girl.
I2a are native europeans so you must give respect

Your HG is Slavic.. Arrived with Slavs

[DarknessWin]

So why not Osmans?

You see osmans here ???

[DarknessWin]

Your HG is Slavic.. Arrived with Slavs

Dream on,
its native Thracian-Hellenic Balkan

[Rethel]

You see osmans here ???

Osmans kept you under foot during 600 years...

[Dema]

Dream on,
its native Thracian-Hellenic Balkan

You most likely fall under CTS10228, do you have your str markers, where have you test

[Ülev]

to me R1a is Hunnic & Mongolic
R1b is Hunnic and Turkic (Bashkir)

I see it on their faces

[Wrong]

I believe R1a is Hunnic and Turkic , it come from asia
R1b came with Celts

J2a its native Mediterranean from Sea People ,Romans,Byzantines etc.
Crete is the island of Sea People (Philistines) and so it most elevated there
Main R1b in Albanians, Greeks, Bulgarians and Romanians is related to Yamnaya.

I think Leonidas and the Dorians carried this as it's elevated in Peloponnese opposed to the rest of the Greek mainland.

[Wrong]

to me R1a is Hunnic & Mongolic
R1b is Hunnic and Turkic (Bashkir)

I see it on their faces
That is wrong.

Those two groups in its base were East-Euro Hunter-Gatherers and spread both west- and eastwards later.

[Kelmendasi]

Main R1b in Albanians, Greeks, Bulgarians and Romanians is related to Yamnaya.

I think Leonidas and the Dorians carried this as it's elevated in Peloponnese opposed to the rest of the Greek mainland.
Yh high chance they carried a good amount of it but I still think that there is a higher chance of Leonidas being J2a

[Wrong]

Yh high chance they carried a good amount of it but I still think that there is a higher chance of Leonidas being J2a
We're can't be sure until we get aDNA of the Spartans.

[DarknessWin]

That is wrong.

Those two groups in its base were East-Euro Hunter-Gatherers and spread both west- and eastwards later.

Most Hunter-Gatherer genes in Europe belong to Lapps.
Sο its connection to asian groups are huge

[Kelmendasi]

We're can't be sure until we get aDNA of the Spartans.
True dat.

[Kelmendasi]

Most Hunter-Gatherer genes in Europe belong to Lapps.
Sο its connection to asian groups are huge
Nope, Baltic peoples like Lithuanians, Latvians etc have the most WHG in Europe

[DarknessWin]

We're can't be sure until we get aDNA of the Spartans.

They do it for Myceneans and they were J2, Myceneans are forefathers of Spartans so Spartans most probably
were both J2,EV13 and maybe R1

[Wrong]

R1a and R1b are undoubtedly the strongest haplogroups of Europe.

The bulk of the European population carries it by far as it had the greatest elite dominance and influence.

[Kelmendasi]

R1a and R1b are undoubtedly the strongest haplogroups of Europe.

The bulk of the European population carries it by far as it had the greatest elite dominance and influence.
They seem to have had the ability of producing a great number of sons lol

[Dick]

We're can't be sure until we get aDNA of the Spartans.

What about the Mycenaean samples from this year?

[Wrong]

They do it for Myceneans and they were J2, Myceneans are forefathers of Spartans so Spartans most probably
were both J2,EV13 and maybe R1
They didn't find enough of samples to make any conclusion yet. Those J2a might have mixed with northern R1 invaders.

Spartans were Dorians as most evidence and writings show. As I say, it wouldnt surprise me if they get J2a anyway.

[DarknessWin]

Nope, Baltic peoples like Lithuanians, Latvians etc have the most WHG in Europe

Estonians have the most 49.5% and Finns are 47%,
but among Lapps in Finland are higher

[DarknessWin]

Osmans kept you under foot during 600 years...

Osmans never come here, they put mercenaries from Balkan and traitors to do the job.
Half of the Greeks joined them and we sent them in Turkey when Balkans were free.

You can see the East Asian mix in Greece is 0%

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/East-Asian-admixture.gif

[Rethel]

Osmans never come here, they put mercenaries from Balkan and traitors to do the job.
Half of the Greeks joined them and we sent them in Turkey when Balkans were free.

You can see the East Asian mix in Greece is 0%

It is hard for them to live some asian DNA if they themselves were
mostly autosomaly european or caucasian, and during first hundrets
years counted bearly one person... later they number was not bigger
than couple of dozens... so how they could... :picard1:

[Wrong]

What about the Mycenaean samples from this year?
They J2a Mycaeneans in the mainland must have gotten Steppe admixture from somewhere, as J2a Minoans weren't Indo-Europeans and did not have this admixture iirc.

[Philip Latinowitz]

Dream on,
its native Thracian-Hellenic Balkan

most of I2 in balkans is slavic

but maybe you have native subclade

[Wrong]

most of I2 in balkans is slavic

but maybe you have native suclade
Yeah. I2a2 is pre-Slavic

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-I2b.gif

[Philip Latinowitz]

btw guys, how common is M67 in greece ?

http://gentis.ru/img/y/M67.gif

thanks in advance.

[Wrong]

btw guys, how common is M67 in greece ?

http://gentis.ru/img/y/M67.gif

thanks in advance.
20-35% depending on areas if we combine J2a & J2b.

Most in Crete, particularly J2a.

[Philip Latinowitz]

20-35% depending on areas if we combine J2a & J2b.

Most in Crete, particularly J2a.

Thanks bro. J2 pride :cool:

[kingjohn]

R1a and R1b are undoubtedly the strongest haplogroups of Europe.

The bulk of the European population carries it by far as it had the greatest elite dominance and influence.

number dosen't mean quality the gookish invaders killed many i-m170 {original Europeans}

how old is i-m170 in europe damn old............

Gravettian Italy Grotta Paglicci [PA133 (23C-2)] M 34580-312010 cal BP 82330 I CTS674+, CTS9269+, FGC2416- , CTS8300-, PF3815-, L80- , M253-, L81-, M307.2- , FGC2416, CTS8300-, PF3815- U8c C16519T, (6N, 11N) source: Posth 2016; Fu 2016

[DarknessWin]

It is hard for them to live some asian DNA if they themselves were
mostly autosomaly european or caucasian, and during first hundrets
years counted bearly one person... later they number was not bigger
than couple of dozens... so how they could... :picard1:

But we let Greek dna in whole Balkans , Middle East, North Africa and colonies in Catalonia,Marseille,Sicily,Cuprys
All Pontid and DinaroMeds types there are from Greek seed

Turks left nothing, they mixed with native anatolias and stolen Greek childs to make them Janissaries (their best fighters).
Then traitors from Balkans ruled the region like Ali Pasha Tepelena etc

[Kelmendasi]

Yeah. I2a2 is pre-Slavic

[ig]http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-I2b.gif[/img]
I2a2a in present day Balkanites is mainly derived from Germanic groups which is pretty ironic since I2a2a-Z161 and other I2a2a clades were found in the ancient Balkans.

[Wrong]

number dosen't mean quality the gookish invaders killed many i-m170 {original Europeans}
Except that they weren't "gookish".

There's 14000 year old R1b Villabruna sample from Italy.

[DarknessWin]

most of I2 in balkans is slavic

but maybe you have native subclade

The only slavic marker is R1a-M458

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1a-M458.png

I2 is native Balkan

[Philip Latinowitz]

The only slavic marker is R1a-M458

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1a-M458.png

I2 is native Balkan

no way.

M458, Z280 and CTS10228 are all equaly slavic. none of the ancient groups carried only one HG

[Kelmendasi]

The only slavic marker is R1a-M458

[IG]http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1a-M458.png[/IMG]

I2 is native Balkan
I2a-CTS10228 which is the main I2 clade in the Balkans expanded via the Slavs in the region around Ukraine as shown by its having the most diversity there although it's distant origin is probably from northern Europe like Scandinavia judging by ancient I2a1b samples

[kingjohn]

but the r1b in villabruna is not the same r1b of modern europeans
and still so it was ancient gook in north italy ....
i-m170 arrived directly from the middle east not from sibir and gookish lands |

Azalian Switzerland Grotte du Bichon M 13770-13560 cal BP 2116782 I2 U5b1h Mutations with respect to the Reconstructed Sapiens Reference Sequence: 146T, 150T, 152T, 195T, 247G, [384G not found], 769G, 825T, 1018G, 2758G, 2885T, 3197C, 3594C, 4104A, 4312C, [5656G non found], 7028C, 7146A, 7256C, [7521G not found], 7768G, 8468C, 8655C, 8701A, 9477A, 9540T, 10398A, 10664C, 10688G, 10810T, 10873T, 10915T, 11467G, 11914G, 12308G, 12372A, 12705C, 13105A, 13276A, 13506C, 13617C, 13650C, 14182C, 16129G, 16187C, 16223C, 16230A, 16270T, 16278C, 16311T, 16519T Jones 2015; Fu 2016

[Dick]

They J2a Mycaeneans in the mainland must have gotten Steppe admixture from somewhere, as J2a Minoans weren't Indo-Europeans and did not have this admixture iirc.

Greek Dna project has some interesting results.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Greece/default.aspx?section=yresults

[DarknessWin]

I2a-CTS10228 which is the main I2 clade in the Balkans expanded via the Slavs in the region around Ukraine as shown by its having the most diversity there although it's distant origin is probably from northern Europe like Scandinavia judging by ancient I2a1b samples

Maybe but it was not Slavic, Slavic group had also EV13-J2 etc

Their main Haplo was R1a M458

https://i.imgur.com/uHHg4Qj.png

Why you dont claim that EV13 is also Slavic then??

[Philip Latinowitz]

Maybe but it was not Slavic, Slavic group had also EV13-J2 etc

Their main Haplo was R1a M458

https://i.imgur.com/uHHg4Qj.png

Why you dont claim that EV13 is also Slavic then??

South slavs assimilated E1b, J2 R1b haplos after arrival in balkans. When they came they were mix of R1a and I2 dinaric. simple as that.
they also assimilated some germanic I1

all slavs are mostly R1a+ I2, other haplos are additions trough centuries

[Kelmendasi]

Maybe but it was not Slavic, Slavic group had also EV13-J2 etc

Their main Haplo was R1a M458

[IG]https://i.imgur.com/uHHg4Qj.png[/IMG]

Why you dont claim that EV13 is also Slavic then??
Because V13 has origins in the Balkans judging by it's father and grandfather clade being found in the Balkans and it's TMRCA pre-dates the Slavs. The I2a1b in the Balkans on the other hand haven't been found in ancient Balkan samples and they have TMRCA's which go hand-in-hand with the Slavic expansion and their ancestral clades were found in east European countries and Scandinavian countries. Btw Eupedia isn't the greatest at time, Maciamo makes it seem as if Indo-Europeans helped expand every haplogroup

[DarknessWin]

Because V13 has origins in the Balkans judging by it's father and grandfather clade being found in the Balkans and it's TMRCA pre-dates the Slavs. The I2a1b in the Balkans on the other hand haven't been found in ancient Balkan samples and they have TMRCA's which go hand-in-hand with the Slavic expansion and their ancestral clades were found in east European countries and Scandinavian countries. Btw Eupedia isn't the greatest at time, Maciamo makes it seem as if Indo-Europeans helped expand every haplogroup

Even if you have EV13 you can be Slavic, maybe your EV13 come here with Slavs.
Or maybe with Goths, Dorians or someone else.

Simply as that. Haplogroups are not a good source to found your genes

The basic Slavic haplo from the North (Poland) was R1a M458

[Kelmendasi]

Even if you have EV13 you can be Slavic, maybe your EV13 come here with Slavs.
Or maybe with Goths, Dorians or someone else.

Simply as that. Haplogroups are not a good source to found your genes

The basic Slavic haplo from the North (Poland) was R1a M458
Yh they are Slavic now but their paternal ancestor wasn't a Slav, Maciamo pulled the whole theory about E-V13 being spread by Goths, Slavs etc from his ass he doesn't even mention paleo-Balkanites or Albanians lol just like how he claims J2b2-L283 as an Indo-European haplogroup just because that one proto-Illyrian had steppe admix.

[DarknessWin]

Yh they are Slavic now but their paternal ancestor wasn't a Slav, Maciamo pulled the whole theory about E-V13 being spread by Goths, Slavs etc from his ass he doesn't even mention paleo-Balkanites or Albanians lol just like how he claims J2b2-L283 as an Indo-European haplogroup just because that one proto-Illyrian had steppe admix.

Well Myceneans were "Indoeuropean" people, they were Dorians and came from North.
Still they had haplogroup J2

[Kelmendasi]

Well Myceneans were "Indoeuropean" people, they were Dorians and came from North.
Still they had haplogroup J2
well that means that those Indo-Europeans assimilated the native J2, V13, G2 etc peoples

[Wrong]

well that means that those Indo-Europeans assimilated the native J2, V13, G2 etc peoples
Yep, R1 people in the Bronze Age were the main Indo-Europeans.

We others joined them from time to time which is why we find Steppe & EHG in samples that did not contain any of it ancestrally.

[DarknessWin]

well that means that those Indo-Europeans assimilated the native J2, V13, G2 etc peoples
It Had J2 people to the north ???

[DarknessWin]

Yep, R1 people in the Bronze Age were the main Indo-Europeans.

We others joined them from time to time which is why we find Steppe & EHG in samples that did not contain any of it ancestrally.

What if all the studies are wrong and R1 are actually Asians and not Europeans ???
Until now we see only theories

If Myceneans one from the first "indoeuropean" tribes were J2 then something is very wrong with this theory

Especially when Ottomans were R1a

[Wrong]

What if all the studies are wrong and R1 are actually Asians and not Europeans ???
Until now we see only theories

If Myceneans one from the first "indoeuropean" tribes were J2 then something is very wrong with this theory

Especially when Ottomans were R1a
You see zero Asiatic admix in regions where say, R1b is rich. It all depends on certain subclades.

[Dema]

Even if you have EV13 you can be Slavic, maybe your EV13 come here with Slavs.
Or maybe with Goths, Dorians or someone else.

Simply as that. Haplogroups are not a good source to found your genes

The basic Slavic haplo from the North (Poland) was R1a M458



South Slavs probably brought around 1-2% of E-v13 along with them when arrived in 6th and 7th cet.. And these clades can be found in Poland, Ukraine, Russia..

But your I2a is most likely under CTS10228 which is heavily Slavic marker, probably even proto Slavic. Just like Ev13 could be Proto IE, its not IE in origin but proto IE assimilated it early on so it expanded with IE.

Same thing with your I2a, its not Slavic in origin but it was assimilated by proto Slavs and its expansion is heavily associated only with Slavs and within Slavic countries..

Why dont you admit you are under CTS10228, i asked you a simple question, do you know your str markers and where did you test

[DarknessWin]

South Slavs probably brought around 1-2% of E-v13 along with them when arrived in 6th and 7th cet.. And these clades can be found in Poland, Ukraine, Russia..

But your I2a is most likely under CTS10228 which is heavily Slavic marker, probably even proto Slavic. Just like Ev13 could be Proto IE, its not IE in origin but proto IE assimilated it early on so it expanded with IE.

Same thing with your I2a, its not Slavic in origin but it was assimilated by proto Slavs and its expansion is heavily associated only with Slavs and within Slavic countries..

Why dont you admit you are under CTS10228, i asked you a simple question, do you know your str markers and where did you test


It dont matter, it is I2a-Din

Maybe some Slavs had it but Thracians , Dorians had it also

So you cant tell that it is slavic, i can tell that it is Thracian

[DarknessWin]

You see zero Asiatic admix in regions where say, R1b is rich. It all depends on certain subclades.

So we go back to the fact that Haplogroups are Nothing ,
why we still play with them >???

[Kelmendasi]

It Had J2 people to the north ???
I'm talking about native balkanites

[Dema]

It dont matter, it is I2a-Din

Maybe some Slavs had it but Thracians , Dorians had it also

So you cant tell that it is slavic, i can tell that it is Thracian




600 CE:

https://i.imgur.com/aROhBwK.png

[DarknessWin]

600 CE:

https://i.imgur.com/aROhBwK.png

I2a existed in Byzantine empire and ancient Greece too

[Dema]

I2a existed in Byzantine empire and ancient Greece too

There is no chance about Ancient Greece, and in Byzantine Empire it arrived thru Slavs looting and raping Byzantine Greeks, and also later thru Greeks assimilating Slavs..

Why are your speaking about E-v13 when you dont know basics even about your own hg?

TMRCA of your group must be around 2000 years, and its origin around Poland, i dont see how it could have been Ancient Greek lol..

[kingjohn]

back to e1b1b1
about the e-m81 cousins in cantabria :)
it was found also in the non- pasiego 88 sample 17%
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1469-1809.2003.00045.x/full
i wonder if the moors ever made it that north in spain to give this % :confused:
there is also some % in France auvergne maybe they are descendnets of Muslims who fought at the battle of tours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours

there were 3 remains from 700 ad nimes southern France which have been confirmed as e-m81...

Islamic France Nimes [SP7089] M 637-765 E1b1b1b M81 K1a4a Gleize 2016
Islamic France Nimes [SP9269] M 649-767 E1b1b1b M81 H1 Gleize 2016
Islamic France Nimes [SP7080] M 684-876 E1b1b1b M81 L1c3a Gleize 2016

source:http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0148583

[DarknessWin]

There is no chance about Ancient Greece, and in Byzantine Empire it arrived thru Slavs looting and raping Byzantine Greeks, and also later thru Greeks assimilating Slavs..

Why are your speaking about E-v13 when you dont know basics even about your own hg?

TMRCA of your group must be around 2000 years, and its origin around Poland, i dont see how it could have been Ancient Greek lol..

From Dorians
I2a exist on Thracians so its not come here with Slavs.
You speak crap again

Byzantines have it for sure just like Thracians

[Dick]

From Dorians
I2a exist on Thracians so its not come here with Slavs.
You speak crap again

Byzantines have it for sure just like ThraciansI2a-Din is a young subclade. Thracians definitely did not have it.

[Principe Azzurro]

I2a-Din is very likely originally a Scythian line, Scythians had long contacts with the Balkans and particular subclades such as I-PH908 were part of the formation of Proto-Slavs imo, could very easily explain it's spread.

[Principe Azzurro]

@Darknesswithin R1a and R1b are Indo European markers, there is too much evidence to support this.

As for the main point of thread, people with Haplogroup E should be very proud, many important cultures were strong in E.

[Wrong]

I2a-Din is very likely originally a Scythian line
I think it is too late in history to conclude that. Most of the known cultures had a mix of haplogroups back then that is, varied between areas it spanned.

[Kelmendasi]

I2a-Din is very likely originally a Scythian line, Scythians had long contacts with the Balkans and particular subclades such as I-PH908 were part of the formation of Proto-Slavs imo, could very easily explain it's spread.
I'd say that's very unlikely, the ancestor of the I2a-Din carried by south Slavs was found in the Motala SHG samples which suggests an origin from there and then a migration further east to somewhere around Ukraine(Judging by the diversity of I2a-Din there) where it then expanded into the Balkans with Slavs. Anyways Scythians carried haplogroups found in the Caucasus and central Asia iirc like R1a-Z93, J1, G1 etc

[Principe Azzurro]

I'd say that's very unlikely, the ancestor of the I2a-Din carried by south Slavs was found in the Motala SHG samples which suggests an origin from there and then a migration further east to somewhere around Ukraine(Judging by the diversity of I2a-Din there) where it then expanded into the Balkans with Slavs. Anyways Scythians carried haplogroups found in the Caucasus and central Asia iirc like R1a-Z93, J1, G1 etc


So maybe Garrick from Eupedia was right the whole time with Bastarnae theory? I did not know that they found an ancient sample of I-CTS10228?! I agree with the Haplogroups of the Scythians as well you can add some J2 in there as well, Ossetia carries quite a lot of J2. Thanks man!

[Wrong]

So maybe Garrick from Eupedia was right the whole time with Bastarnae theory? I did not know that they found an ancient sample of I-CTS10228?! I agree with the Haplogroups of the Scythians as well you can add some J2 in there as well, Ossetia carries quite a lot of J2. Thanks man!
Garrick is always parroting nonsense over there. Some people do not realize that variety of yDNA types was higher back 1500+ years ago than it is now due to founder effects, replacing other lines through migrations, birth rates, wars, plagues, selection and many other factors.

[Principe Azzurro]

Garrick is always parroting nonsense.

I never really believed his theory, though he has points, but if there is an ancient sample of I-CTS10228 in Motala which is SHG it would suggest a Germanic origin for that line, which is fucked if you think about it.

[Kelmendasi]

I never really believed his theory, though he has points, but if there is an ancient sample of I-CTS10228 in Motala which is SHG it would suggest a Germanic origin for that line, which is fucked if you think about it.
It was the ancestor of CTS10228 which was found in Motala

[Wrong]

I never really believed his theory, though he has points, but if there is an ancient sample of I-CTS10228 in Motala which is SHG it would suggest a Germanic origin for that line, which is fucked if you think about it.
Though none of these groups existed that far back. Isn't Motala sample 6000BC~?

[Kelmendasi]

So maybe Garrick from Eupedia was right the whole time with Bastarnae theory? I did not know that they found an ancient sample of I-CTS10228?! I agree with the Haplogroups of the Scythians as well you can add some J2 in there as well, Ossetia carries quite a lot of J2. Thanks man!
I2a-L147.2 which is the ancestor of CTS10228 was found in one Motala sample. Yh forgot about J2 lol, J2a was found in Scythian samples. No problem man

[Principe Azzurro]

It was the ancestor of CTS10228 which was found in Motala

That's really far back then, its more possible that I-CTS10228 just happened to migrate to the area of Proto Slavs, the reason why I say a possible Scythian origin is because of I-A2512 which is a subclade of it and is basically only found in Greeks and Ashkenazim, the TMRCA of it is 2200 ybp which is too old for it to be Slavic, and the TMRCA of the Ashkenazi clade is older than when the Slavs started migrating to the Balkans and is before Jewish migration to Eastern Europe.

[kingjohn]

only 1% of our total genome
the y dna and all the arguments here......
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?107088-Actual-Importance-of-Haplogroups

[Ülev]

maybe 1% but the most important for some reasons

[kingjohn]

so fucking what in geno2 next generation
i score 1% Neanderthal
so it is the same% of the total genome as the y dna
still important to remember thanks longbowman
i hope the r1a propaganda will stop one day
we were Aryans and shit lol......

[Ülev]

if someone's child is E1b whereas "father" is for example J2, miracle? can it be explained by autosomalism etc?, E1b of this child is only 1%, lol
(example from very inbred society for example)

[Rethel]

if someone's child is E1b whereas "father" is for example J2, miracle? can it be explained by autosomalism etc?, E1b of this child is only 1%, lol
(example from very inbred society for example)

He, and sissies like he, would gladly be happy about that. If their
wives would tell them: "You know honey, Y hg is totaly irrelevant,
this is only 1% of DNA - autosomaly he is native as you!" – they
will be happpppy... especially, if every child would have different
hg – it is irrelevant anyway according to them :laugh:

[kingjohn]

listen to your Führer
he was e1b1b
remember that you were his slaves for 6 years
you and Cristiano gitano are 2 people who if i ever met them in real life
i will defiantly go into fight maybe i will lose but i would defiantly go for it .
but i can't recognize his face and yours because at least i have balls to put my picture
and not hiding like you and him ..... fuck of...

[Longobarda]

I believe R1a is Hunnic and Turkic , it come from asia
R1b came with Celts

J2a its native Mediterranean from Sea People ,Romans,Byzantines etc.
Crete is the island of Sea People (Philistines) and so it most elevated there

R1b did not come with Celts, It is a neolithic haplogroup

R1a comes from the same place as R1b. They split in very ancient times

Crete is not the Island of the sea people. It is Ciprus their intermediate stop Island. Sea people final places were: Spain, Sicily, Sardinia, Ireland and Danemark. Philistines or Pelasgians ended in all the western mediterranean lands sparsely located. The megalitic walls you find everywhere are theirs.
As to J2 origins it is debated. Someone thinks it comes from middle east but the samples found dont point to middle-east but to Anatolia (maybe Ittites?).

[Longobarda]

68437
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68437&d=1507501459

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68428&d=1507500426

68434
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68434&d=1507501447

68435
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68435&d=1507501452

68436
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68436&d=1507501453

68431
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68431&d=1507501442

68432
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68432&d=1507501444

68433
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68433&d=1507501446

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Superior R1b-L21 right here :D

[Longobarda]

Superior R1b-L21 right here :D

Superior to whom? Superior for what? In Portugal maybe R1b-L21 exists but the iberian R1b is R1b-DF27/S250

Look, superior being, what your MTDNA H15 is:

With a distribution that reaches to Denmark, it is tempting to place this line in Europe before the last ice age. However, H15b is much younger than the beginning of the last ice age, and the parent branch, H15, is unlikely to be from Europe. Thus, the Franco-Cantabrian Refuge is unlikely to have been the source for H15b's ancestors. The age of H15b and its spread from the Middle East to Europe may link it to the spread of farming in the late Neolithic. It could also have come to Europe with later migrations in the Bronze Age.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Superior to whom? Superior for what? In Portugal maybe R1b-L21 exists but the iberian R1b is R1b-DF27/S250

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/7/7c/Arrogance1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150901181307

Deal with it.

[Cristiano viejo]

Superior R1b-L21 right here :D

Whatever less African e1b1.

[Longobarda]

Whatever less African e1b1.

.... that is the highest of Europe in Cantabria, SPAIN

[Cristiano viejo]

.... that is the highest of Europe in Cantabria, SPAIN

Tell them. It is only a few, you will have easy.

[Kouros]

While its main expansion happened in Bronze Age with Indo-Europeans arriving from direction of Pontic Steppes....

Can I get a link on that? I always thought it was just balkan neolithic haplogroup that originated in Africa. Also I love how E1b1b corresponds precisely with Aegean coast Asia minor settlement of Hellenic tribes.

[DarknessWin]

R1b did not come with Celts, It is a neolithic haplogroup

R1a comes from the same place as R1b. They split in very ancient times

Crete is not the Island of the sea people. It is Ciprus their intermediate stop Island. Sea people final places were: Spain, Sicily, Sardinia, Ireland and Danemark. Philistines or Pelasgians ended in all the western mediterranean lands sparsely located. The megalitic walls you find everywhere are theirs.
As to J2 origins it is debated. Someone thinks it comes from middle east but the samples found dont point to middle-east but to Anatolia (maybe Ittites?).


I speak About Philistine Sea People and their island was Crete , not Cyprus

Although a majority of the Sea Peoples may have come from the Greek mainland, it has been speculated that the island of Crete, which was then home to the powerful Minoan civilization, also produced raiders who participated in the conquests of the Sea Peoples. At times, Crete has been connected to the Tjeker and Peleset peoples, both of whom were lumped in with the Sea Peoples confederation by ancient Egyptian authors. Prior to the Late Bronze Age Collapse, the Minoans traded widely with the Egyptians and the civilizations of the Levant. Furthermore, in the Amarna Letters, Crete, which is called Caphtor, is included as one of the great regional powers that suffered under the constant attacks of the Sea Peoples. That being said, Minoan pirates, along with Mycenaean colonists who had settled both Crete and Cyprus, may have joined the Sea Peoples to capture livestock, booty, and slaves.

Outside of the Bible, the Philistines are mentioned in several Syrian, Phoenician, and Egyptian letters. While it is generally considered that the Philistines were a group of Sea Peoples who settled the area, not everyone agrees on their exact origins.One of the more common theories is that the Philistines were originally from the Aegean Sea region, with many more people claiming that the Philistines were Mycenaean Greeks. Archaeological digs near the ancient Philistine city of Gath uncovered pieces of pottery that bear close similarities to ancient Greek objects. Furthermore, a red-and-black ceramic bear taken from one of the excavations almost certainly points to the influence of the Mycenaean culture.

-------///////////------------////////////////-----------///////////

After all that Ottoman Dynasty was R1a , so the theory of European and Aryan R1 collapse once more.

[DarknessWin]

He, and sissies like he, would gladly be happy about that. If their
wives would tell them: "You know honey, Y hg is totaly irrelevant,
this is only 1% of DNA - autosomaly he is native as you!" – they
will be happpppy... especially, if every child would have different
hg – it is irrelevant anyway according to them :laugh:

Show us your indoeuropean face , i need to have a laugh

Indian R1a clearly dont make you Ragnar, you get it Kid???
But haplogroup I can make you

[Fustan]

E-V13 could very well be indo european, I dont know what this bald j2b1ugoslav is sperging about.

The fact that we found Indo-European J2a, shows that we knew very little about their haplos.

[Longobarda]

68446

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68446&d=1507509538

68447

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68447&d=1507509538
68448

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68448&d=1507509538
68449

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68449&d=1507509538
68450

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68450&d=1507509538
68451
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68452
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68453
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68454
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68455
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68456
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68457
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68460
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68460&d=1507509538

[Longobarda]

68461
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68461&d=1507510704

68462
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68462&d=1507510704
68463
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68463&d=1507510704
68464
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68465
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68465&d=1507510704
68466
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68466&d=1507510704
68467
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68467&d=1507510704
68468
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68468&d=1507510704
68469
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68470
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68470&d=1507510704
68471
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68471&d=1507510704

[Dema]

E-V13 could very well be indo european, I dont know what this bald j2b1ugoslav is sperging about.

The fact that we found Indo-European J2a, shows that we knew very little about their haplos.




Read better and I dont see why you hating for no reason? Lack of sun in Scandinavia? I think that is the same problem that is bothering your two friends also, Kurgan and Abubu... Mediterranean Albanians just cant handle these Scandinavian winters and nights, thats what all Albanians from TA that are insane have in common.. All maybe except Albo Balboa, he is still resisting but i think its effecting him too..


Its origin is believed to be Balkan, but there is possibility of Levantine or North African origin also.

While its main expansion happened in Bronze Age with Indo-Europeans arriving from direction of Pontic Steppes....

So, R1a, R1b and V13 spread with IE.



And regarding J2b1 its obvious that all of us who fall under Y22066 are today assimilated into ethnicities where we belong..
My ancestor was most likely mercenary protecting your lands, while your ancestor was too busy handling his sheeps:

https://i.imgur.com/1MwnIvj.png

[kingjohn]

at the moment that r1b decided Golan be a slave of e1b1b from 1939 get lost everything.... superior .... that is a good one... ��

[Wrong]

E-V13 could very well be indo european, I dont know what this bald j2b1ugoslav is sperging about.

The fact that we found Indo-European J2a, shows that we knew very little about their haplos.
+1 broder :cheers: just my sig proves what knowledge Demic has about everything.

[Dema]

+1 broder :cheers: just my sig proves what knowledge Demic has about everything.

If pseudo science like classification is knowledge about everything then its clear why you have it about nothing.
And your friend made like stupid comment, he calls me stupid and says V13 could be indo european while its what i claimed since page 1..

Just continue to derail the thread with stupidities since obviously you have nothing smart to say about topic anyways..

Why dont you rather go learn Albanian language for a start :D


Emigrant business.....

[Brutus]

https://i.hizliresim.com/jQVLDG.jpg

Kosovo 47,5%
Albania 27,5%
Montenegro 27%
Bulgaria 23,5%
Macedonia 21,5%
Greece 21%
Serbia 15%
Portugal 14%
Romania 14%
Italy 13,5%
Bosnia 11,5% (9% in Bosniaks and Croats; but 17,5% in Serbs)


Red Sea origins & Neolithic expansion

Haplogroup E1b1b (formerly known as E3b) represents the last major direct migration from Africa into Europe. It is believed to have first appeared in the Horn of Africa approximately 26,000 years ago and dispersed to North Africa and the Near East during the late Paleolithic and Mesolithic periods. E-M78 and E-Z827 originated respectively at 20,000 years and 24,000 years. E1b1b lineages are closely linked to the diffusion of Afroasiatic languages.

Lazaridis et al. (2016) tested the first ancient DNA samples from the Mesolithic Natufian culture in Israel, possibly the world's oldest sedentary community, and found that the male individuals belonged either to haplogroups CT or E1b1 (including two E1b1b1b2 samples). These are to date the oldest known E1b1b individuals. The same haplogroups show up in Pre-Pottery Neolithic B Jordan, accompanied by new haplogroups (H2 and T).


Source: Eupedia

Italy has 14% E1b and E1b1b (E-M215) is approximately 41,500 years old.

[Brutus]

It's from farmers and agriculturalists from North Africa, Red Sea and Levantine coast who progressed around 5000 B.C. to south Europe obviously.
They left few to no impact on Russia, Siberia and Finland.

E-V13 entered Europe since 7,000 BCE, older than 5,000 BCE.

[safinator]

It's from farmers and agriculturalists from North Africa, Red Sea and Levantine coast who progressed around 5000 B.C. to south Europe obviously.
They left few to no impact on Russia, Siberia and Finland.

E-V13 was found in spanish caves already in 7000 BC

[Kriptc06]

Oh Hi there! :D my subclade is E-Z16242, present in Iberia and England, its dated 4k yo, in the bronze age (yfull). I still want to buy BIGY, I done V13 Pack and Y67 so far :D

[MiloshN]

E-V13 - white niggers :P

[Vasconcelos]

I have a very rare subclade of this, E-M123* Y31991 (PF4428), despite being over 10000 years old. My FTDNA YDNA matches are all of Iberian descent plus one Norwegian, but E-M123* has mostly been found in Portugal and Germany, although it also exists in Austria, Italy, Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova and England, plus a few samples in the Levant and Armenia (although the two Lebanese have another subclade only 950 years old).


The only ancient sample found with this haplogroup is a Scythian who lived in the 8th century BC in modern northeast Kazakhstan. He was buried in an island on the Irtysh river

[Kriptc06]

I have a very rare subclade of this, E-M123* Y31991 (PF4428), despite being over 10000 years old. My FTDNA YDNA matches are all of Iberian descent plus one Norwegian, but E-M123* has mostly been found in Portugal and Germany, although it also exists in Austria, Italy, Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova and England, plus a few samples in the Levant and Armenia (although the two Lebanese have another subclade only 950 years old).


The only ancient sample found with this haplogroup is a Scythian who lived in the 8th century BC in modern northeast Kazakhstan. He was buried in an island on the Irtysh river

It could as well be of phoenician origin, could it not?

[Wrong]

Was possibly spread from the Balkans in the Bronze Age combined with IE peoples.

R1b-L23, J2b2, EV13 are my broders.

[Freeroostah]

An interesting fact about E1b is that it is abundant in North Africa and South Balkans but very insignificant in the Middle East
Our ancestors came here via Boats!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jheEi_R0kV0

[Wrong]

An interesting fact about E1b is that it is abundant in North Africa and South Balkans but very insignificant in the Middle East
Our ancestors came here via Boats!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jheEi_R0kV0
Yeah, was spread with Natufians according to aDNA circa 9000BC. Either with boats or southern Anatolian coast.

Later in Europe, from the Balkans, theory is it was helped to spread along with IE groups, both south and north.

[Vasconcelos]

It could as well be of phoenician origin, could it not?

Not likely, how would you explain a Scythian near the Altai mountains having it if it were Pheonician by 800BC? It's likely earlier than that - my guess would be neolithic or chalcolithic, probably got integrated into IE-speaking groups some time during the Bronze Age as they moved along - although there's a remote possibility it was spread by groups descended from Scythian tribes, since they were active in the eastern half of the continent, and the Alans did settle in Portugal by 400AD. I wouldn't put money on this theory, but it's possible.

The Pheonician one(s) probably belongs to M34 to which we're all negative, that one has a mediterranean distribution, Y31991 doesn't.

[Wrong]

Not likely, how would you explain a Scythian near the Altai mountains having it if it were Pheonician by 800BC? It's likely earlier than that - my guess would be neolithic or chalcolithic, probably got integrated into IE-speaking groups some time during the Bronze Age as they moved along - although there's a remote possibility it was spread by groups descended from Scythian tribes, since the Alans did settle in Portugal. I wouldn't put money on this theory, but it's possible.

The Pheonician one(s) probably belongs to M34 to which we're all negative, that one has a mediterranean distribution, Y31991 doesn't.
This. Alot of non-R1 groups got integrated into the greater R1-pool.

[Wrong]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?268495-Atlantis-Real-Location

Atlas, king of Atlantis is the originator of this haplogroup.

[Brutus]

An interesting fact about E1b is that it is abundant in North Africa and South Balkans but very insignificant in the Middle East
Our ancestors came here via Boats!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jheEi_R0kV0

:picard2:

So? Levantine Natufians (lived approx. 15,000 YBP) were E1b1b. North African (excluding Egypt) E1b1b is mostly M81, meanwhile M78 and Z830 are mostly present at the Levant and Egypt. So a migration through the Levant into the Balkans during 5000 BCE would make more sense than a group of sailors.