Meanwhile in Poland

[KMack]

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A million Christians to pray Rosary on Poland’s border commemorating defeat of Islam. Via @user_one_2015

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLjExTGW0AA8m6R.jpg

[KMack]

Jack Posobiec‏Verified account @JackPosobiec 8m8 minutes ago
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One million Polish Christians formed a human border wall around the entire country today and prayed the Rosary

[Ülev]

http://thenews.pl/1/11/Artykul/329192,Rosary-on-the-Borders

[Philip Latinowitz]

Respect for Poland.

[Peterski]

No need to be jealous of us. You guys can become Polish too.

You just need to get bitten by a Polish person:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG0Wnema41g

[Rethel]

A million Christians to pray Rosary on Poland’s border commemorating defeat of Islam. Via @user_one_2015

I am affriad that it will rather bring more harm than help... :pout:

They should rather convert to the Only True God, than
to make such hutzpah, condeming themselves as idolaters...

[Karol Klačansky]

I am affriad that it will rather bring more harm than help... :pout:

They should rather convert to the Only True God, than
to make such hutzpah, condeming themselves as idolaters...So you are a Protestant and not a Catholic. The One true God gave us the Catholic Church not some imitation that doesn't understand the Bible

Sent from my KIW-L21 using Tapatalk

[Rethel]

So you are a Protestant and not a Catholic.

No, I am not protestant.
Interesting binary viewworld. :bored:



The One true God gave us the Catholic Church not some imitation that doesn't understand the Bible

And gaves the Bible to test everything.
How do you know, that I do not understand the
Bible, when you did not probably even read her?

[Karol Klačansky]

No, I am not protestant.
Interesting binary viewworld. :bored:




And gave the Bible to test everything.
How do you know, that I do not understand the
Bible, when you did not probably even read her?You are part of the so called non-denominational church which is Protestant.

I've read the Bible all my life especially the new testament and know it very well. It doesn't support you Protestants at all. You guys have lost the 2 thousand years of teaching and tradition that the Catholic Church has and can not interpret the Bible correctly because you read it according to what you think it says and not according to the context it was written in. If you would actually read the Bible you would see that all gospels have Peter listed as first and Judas as last, when listing the apostles, while the order of the other apostles changes. We know why Judas is listed last but you Protestants have completely forgotten why Peter is listed first.

Sent from my KIW-L21 using Tapatalk

[Rethel]

You are part of the so called non-denominational church which is Protestant.

:picard2:

So everyone who is not a catholic, or being a catholic
does not belive in every apostasy, is a protestant? :picard2:
JWs and Orthodoxes are also protestants?


I've read the Bible all my life especially the new testament and know it very well.

And where did you read something about praying to Mary?


It doesn't support you Protestants at all.

I am not prostestant, can you get it?


You guys have lost the 2 thousand years of teaching and tradition that the Catholic Church has and can not interpret the Bible correctly because you read it according to what you think it says and not according to the context it was written in. If you would actually read the Bible you would see that all gospels have Peter listed as first and Judas as last, when listing the apostles, while the order of the other apostles changes. We know why Judas is listed last but you Protestants have completely forgotten why Peter is listed first.

What it is at all? Do I said something about apostles and Peter? :picard2:
I see, that you not only see delusionaly everywhere protestants
but you also can;t stick to the topic...

[Karol Klačansky]

:picard2:

So everyone who is not a catholic, or being a catholic
does not belive in every apostasy, is a protestant? :picard2:
JWs and Orthodoxes are also protestants?



And where did you read something about praying to Mary?



I am not prostestant, can you get it?



What it is at all? Do I said something about apostles and Peter? :picard2:
I see, that you not only see delusionaly everywhere protestants but you can;t speak to the topic...Orthodox aren't Protestant they are a schismatic Catholic church. Meaning their beliefs are good, their obedience not.

You are a part of the so called Evangelical church which is Protestant. You don't believe in the authority of Peter as the head of the apostles and don't believe in praying to saints, meaning you aren't Catholic or orthodox , meaning you are 100% Protestant, and most likely Evangelical American type protestantism.

The hail Mary is a prayer directly taken from the Bible. The angel says it to Mary when announcing the birth of the Lord to her. The Bible in revelation says the angels carry the prayers of the saints to God so why is it wrong to ask an angel to take my prayer to God. Praying to saints and Angels has been around since before the Bible even was put together in the Christian Church and the Bible never said not to ask Mary to pray for us.

Andanother angelcame and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he shouldoffer it with the prayers of all saintsupon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints,ascended up before Godout of the angel's hand" (Rev. 8.3,4).

[Rethel]

You are a part of the so called Evangelical church which is Protestant.

And how do you know I am evangelical? :picard2:
You really are very delusional... did you smoke something?


You don't believe in the authority of Peter as the head of the apostles

You clearly smoke something...
Where and when I said I do not belive in that? WHERE?


and don't believe in praying to saints, meaning you aren't Catholic or orthodox, meaning you are 100% Protestant, and most likely Evangelical American type protestantism.

:picard2:


The hail Mary is a prayer directly taken from the Bible. The angel says it to Mary

An angel was praying to Mary? http://emotikona.pl/emotikony/pic/036.gif

https://media.tenor.com/images/0489fb2f025d80cb993ac1e2712682fa/tenor.gif


The Bible in revelation says the angels carry the prayers of the saints to God

Where?


so why is it wrong to ask an angel to take my prayer to God.

Just above you sugested, than angel was praying to human, not otherwise... :picard2:


and the Bible never said not to ask Mary to pray for us.

Bible also never said not to ask Judas Iskariot to pray for us... and what? Do you do this too? :picard2:


And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he shouldoffer it with the prayers of all saintsupon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints,ascended up before Godout of the angel's hand".

1. It is symbolism.
2. It was given to him.
3. Noone was praying to this angel... :picard2:
4. "Saints" mean simply faithfull Christians living on Earth.

[Stannis]

This action should be called "Idolatry limitless" :picard2:
For me as a catholic and Pole, it is very sinful and I'm angry, that
people are insulting the God in a such abominable way...

[Karol Klačansky]

And how do you know I am evangelical? :picard2:
You really are very delusional... did you smoke something?



You clearly smoke something...
Where and when I said I do not belive in that? WHERE?



:picard2:



An angel was praying to Mary? http://emotikona.pl/emotikony/pic/036.gif

https://media.tenor.com/images/0489fb2f025d80cb993ac1e2712682fa/tenor.gif



Where?



Just above you sugested, than angel was praying to human, not otherwise... :picard2:



Bible also never said not to ask Judas Iskariot to pray for us... and what? Do you do this too? :picard2:



1. It is symbolism.
2. It was given to him.
3. Noone was praying to this angel... :picard2:
4. "Saints" mean simply faithfull Christians living on Earth.


If you would believe in the authority of the Pope as successor of Peter then you would also accept the Catholic teaching on praying to saints and Mary, you dont you call it idolatry and you believe other evangelical things about evolution which most other Christians do not believe which also gives away what you are.

Yes the angel was praying to Mary as praying just means talking, you are confusing praying with worshiping which is not what Catholics do. Jesus said that God is the God of the living not of the Dead so how is it possible that we are praying to dead people? Jesus clearly said they are alive.

"the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8).

here again is another scripture in Revelation showing us that not only the angels but the " 24 elders" meaning humans who are in heaven, carry bowls filled with the prayers of the saints on earth. you can call it symbolism, its funny how you take genesis to be literal and not symbolic but when the bible doesnt agree with you, you take it as symbolic lol.




and this is what the early church says about praying to saints. These quotes are all before the bible was canonized and these same people are the same people who helped canonize the bible so if you claim them as wrong then you are claiming the bible as wrong

Hermas


"[The Shepherd said:] ‘But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from him?’" (The Shepherd 3:5:4 [A.D. 80]).



Clement of Alexandria


"In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]" (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208]).



Origen


"But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep" (Prayer 11 [A.D. 233]).



Cyprian of Carthage


"Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides [of death] always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy" (Letters 56[60]:5 [A.D. 253]).



Anonymous


"Atticus, sleep in peace, secure in your safety, and pray anxiously for our sins" (funerary inscription near St. Sabina’s in Rome [A.D. 300]).

"Pray for your parents, Matronata Matrona. She lived one year, fifty-two days" (ibid.).

"Mother of God, [listen to] my petitions; do not disregard us in adversity, but rescue us from danger" (Rylands Papyrus 3 [A.D. 350]).



Methodius


"Hail to you for ever, Virgin Mother of God, our unceasing joy, for to you do I turn again. You are the beginning of our feast; you are its middle and end; the pearl of great price that belongs to the kingdom; the fat of every victim, the living altar of the Bread of Life [Jesus]. Hail, you treasure of the love of God. Hail, you fount of the Son’s love for man. . . . You gleamed, sweet gift-bestowing Mother, with the light of the sun; you gleamed with the insupportable fires of a most fervent charity, bringing forth in the end that which was conceived of you . . . making manifest the mystery hidden and unspeakable, the invisible Son of the Father—the Prince of Peace, who in a marvelous manner showed himself as less than all littleness" (Oration on Simeon and Anna 14 [A.D. 305]).

"Therefore, we pray [ask] you, the most excellent among women, who glories in the confidence of your maternal honors, that you would unceasingly keep us in remembrance. O holy Mother of God, remember us, I say, who make our boast in you, and who in august hymns celebrate the memory, which will ever live, and never fade away" (ibid.).

"And you also, O honored and venerable Simeon, you earliest host of our holy religion, and teacher of the resurrection of the faithful, do be our patron and advocate with that Savior God, whom you were deemed worthy to receive into your arms. We, together with you, sing our praises to Christ, who has the power of life and death, saying, ‘You are the true Light, proceeding from the true Light; the true God, begotten of the true God’" (ibid.).

[Rethel]

If you would believe in the authority of the Pope as successor of Peter then you would also accept the Catholic teaching

So,
Pius V taught as all popes before him and majority after him, that fags should be killed.
Present pope teaches quite opposite.
Who do you obey, as a true infable successor of the Peter?


on praying to saints and Mary, you dont you call it idolatry

Yes I can, becasue Pope is not above the word of God, and
I have to obey God at the first place, if Pope contradicts him.


and you believe other evangelical things about evolution which most other Christians do not believe which also gives away what you are.

So, Catholic Church before JP2 was a protestant Church? http://emotikona.pl/emotikony/pic/036.gif

Maybe you are not aware but all Popes until JP2 taught, that
the World was created by God in six literal days ex nihilo...

So, do you belive infilably 260 pops or just 1-5 last ones?


Yes the angel was praying to Mary as praying just means talking,

No, it is not just talking, it is act of worship.
Angel was talking with Mary, becasue spoke
to her directly and vice versa. Talking to
someone who is not present and who does not
speak directly to you - especially if has some
unnatural powers - is an act of worship and is
resevred only to God.


you are confusing praying with worshiping which is not what Catholics do.

So, if so, then why do you not talk with Judas Iscariot?


Jesus said that God is the God of the living not of the Dead so how is it possible that we are praying to dead people?

Becasue they died, and there was no ressurection yet? Or was?


Jesus clearly said they are alive.

Context.


"the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8).

Again...
1. You assume that you know who 24 elders are.
2. It is clearly a symbol, which is even explain incense = prayers.
3. 24 elders are not angels, neither catholic saints, neither none of the saints was praying to them.

Stop twisting the stright words of the Bible.


here again is another scripture in Revelation showing us that not only the angels but the " 24 elders" meaning humans who are in heaven,

How do you know, they are humans?


carry bowls filled with the prayers of the saints on earth.

This is symbolism, and they ARE NOT THE SUBJECTS OF THESE PRAYERS.
Noone was there praying to 24 elders, neither they are angels or catholic saints.


you can call it symbolism, its funny how you take genesis to be literal and not symbolic but when the bible doesnt agree with you, you take it as symbolic lol.

:picard1:

Becasue the Apocalypse tells herslef, that is a symbolic
book, and clearly explains, that in this case it is a symbol.
Prayers play similar role as incense - they are incesnse and vice versa.

Genesis is not told that is symbolic, Jesus dpidn;t taught, that it is symbolic,
and any other scripture did not even suggest that it is symbolic, and either
the Church and 260 popes never taught that it is symbolic.

It is interesting, that clearly literal book, you treat as symbolic, but clearly symbolic
book, you treat as literal... total twisting of terms... And you are saying, I do not
understand the Bible - if you can;t even understand which Book is literal and which
symbolic, especially, that it is directly written in the content.


and this is what the early church says about praying to saints.

I do not care.
These sources are saying many heresis,
which even present church does not support.
And the most important - are not the Word of
God, which is much more important, than free
creativity of ancient heretics.

[Philip Latinowitz]

This action should be called "Idolatry limitless" :picard2:
For me as a catholic and Pole, it is very sinful and I'm angry, that
people are insulting the God in a such abominable way...

what's idolatry about it ?

[Karol Klačansky]

So,
Pius V taught as all popes before him and majority after him, that fags should be killed.
Present pope teaches quite opposite.
Who do you obey, as a true infable successor of the Peter?

You obviously know zero about the Catholic church. Not everything the Pope says is infallible. Only when he speaks ex-cathedra and declares something a dogma is it considered binding to the entire church and Christian community, a power which was directly given by Jesus himself in the bible. Matthew 16:18

…17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”…



Yes I can, becasue Pope is not above the word of God, and
I have to obey God at the first place, if Pope contradicts him.

The Pope is the one who declared the canon of the bible and said it is the word of God, if he didnt the Bible wouldnt have the authority it does. Protestantism is a complete contradiction on this issue. How can you claim a book has authority over everyone yet the book was put together by the church that you reject.




So, Catholic Church before JP2 was a protestant Church? http://emotikona.pl/emotikony/pic/036.gif

Maybe you are not aware but all Popes until JP2 taught, that
the World was created by God in six literal days ex nihilo...

So, do you belive infilably 260 pops or just 1-5 last ones?

again you completely misunderstand what infallible means as you probably have never read a catholic catechism in your life. Also you are completely wrong on this issue, the bible itself says 24 hour days were created on the fourth day of creation, no pope or christian believed the way you evangelicals and protestants do about genesis.




No, it is not just talking, it is act of worship.
Angel was talking with Mary, becasue spoke
to her directly and vice versa. Talking to
someone who is not present and who does not
speak directly to you - especially if has some
unnatural powers - is an act of worship and is
resevred only to God.

only you and your opinion says its worshiping, we catholics know our own hearts and know we alone worship God the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit ( a teaching you also have from us). As ive shown you Jesus said God is God of the living and not the dead when speaking of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So how are they dead?? During the transfiguration Jesus clearly speaks to Moses who according to you is Dead, how could this be possible if he wasnt alive in heaven. Jesus said to ask people to pray for you, you can pray directly to God but also ask your friends to pray for you. The whole point of Jesus's death is that he united us again to God and heaven so that we could now enter into paradise with God. This means the saints on earth are no longer seperated from our loved ones after death (the saints in heaven). The bible says they are praying for us constantly. Meaning we can ask them to continue to pray to God for us. This has nothing to do with worshiping.




So, if so, then why do you not talk with Judas Iscariot?

Should I ask the devil to pray for me as well? what a silly and stupid point. This makes no sense.




Becasue they died, and there was no ressurection yet? Or was?

Lol you better be careful as unless you are seventh day adventist no christian whether protestant or Catholic believes that after death we dont immediatly go to heaven or Hell, we just believe we will be reunited with our eathly body after Christs second coming. Also just because someone died doesnt mean they are dead. Unless you are an athiest then you better reconsider your thoughts on this subject. The bible also clearly says when Jesus was raised on the third day many souls came out of their graves and were visible in the towns. This clearly shows Jesus is the resurection and the life, we already have life in him now.




Context.



Again...
1. You assume that you know who 24 elders are.
2. It is clearly a symbol, which is even explain incense = prayers.
3. 24 elders are not angels, neither catholic saints, neither none of the saints was praying to them.

Stop twisting the stright words of the Bible.

Bible clearly says they are bringing the prayers of us on earth infront of God, even if it is symobilsm its symbolism of what will actually and is actually happening. You can deny it all you want the bible doesnt support you, and its not me who is twisting the bible as 2000 years of Christians held my views, not yours.




How do you know, they are humans?

If they arent angels, and not God they have to be humans, its the only option.




This is symbolism, and they ARE NOT THE SUBJECTS OF THESE PRAYERS.
Noone was there praying to 24 elders, neither they are angels or catholic saints.



:picard1:

Becasue the Apocalypse tells herslef, that is a symbolic
book, and clearly explains, that in this case it is a symbol.
Prayers play similar role as incense - they are incesnse and vice versa.

you neither pray to saints nor have incense so non of your religion makes sense according to the bible. What do the symbols represent? you cant answer that question because it doesnt support your american protestant views.


Genesis is not told that is symbolic, Jesus dpidn;t taught, that it is symbolic,
and any other scripture did not even suggest that it is symbolic, and either
the Church and 260 popes never taught that it is symbolic.

Jesus nor the Bible ever said genesis is literal, infact Genesis literally says 24 hour days were created on the 4th day but you deny this. though it clearly says the Sun and the stars were created on the 4th day to dictate the days the times and the years. A 24 hour day is dicated by the sun. On mars they dont have 24 hour days, but some how simple science escapes you and all protestants. You also have no clue about what the popes believed, you are getting some weird Protestant theory that isnt based in any history.


It is interesting, that clearly literal book, you treat as symbolic, but clearly symbolic
book, you treat as literal... total twisting of terms... And you are saying, I do not
understand the Bible - if you can;t even understand which Book is literal and which
symbolic, especially, that it is directly written in the content.

I interpret the bible according to how it has been traditionally intepreted by the Christian faithful for 2000 years and according to how the Church who put it together has taught it should be interpreted. You protestants interpret it through modern eyes and have complete lost sight of the context the bible was written in.




I do not care.
These sources are saying many heresis,
which even present church does not support.
And the most important - are not the Word of
God, which is much more important, than free
creativity of ancient heretics.

Amazing how you insult the early christians as heretics when these same people put the bible together. How can the bible have the authority it has if the Church and people who put it together were all heretics. So all early Christians who were taught even in some cases by the apostles themselves are heretics but Protestants over 1500 years later suddenly have the true Christian faith and then even later american protestantism has the true faith :D. utter nonsense. You guys are filled with contradictions. I hope one day you will be reunited to the one and true Catholic church. You deny the Bible and the people who put it together.

[KMack]

Can we get back to the topic, kudos to Poland.

[Rethel]

You obviously know zero about the Catholic church.

Yea, sure...


Not everything the Pope says is infallible. Only when he speaks ex-cathedra and declares something a dogma is it considered binding to the entire church and Christian community, a power which was directly given by Jesus himself in the bible. Matthew 16:18

Ok, so as far as I now, Church ex cathedra taught,
that God created everything in six literal days 6000
years ago. So, you have to belive in that.

Btw, I do not care, if Church is teaching lies and heresies
ex cathedra or not - what she teaches she teaches and I
am talking about this. Through centuries was teaching as
that, so now choose, which teaching is infallible and which
is not. If you have problems with that, ask sedevacantists,
lefebrists, or whatever who stick to traditional catholicism.


The Pope is the one who declared the canon of the bible and said it
is the word of God, if he didnt the Bible wouldnt have the authority it does.


Firstly, Jesus was the one who was speaking about the Bible,
secondly, if Church said that it is the Holy Scriptue, ok, I can
live with that, and still jugde her according to the Book, which
she declars to be the Holy One, the Word of God, and a basis
of church teachings. What is strange in that? If I say, I live by
rules containing in some book, you can judge me according to
it - only becasue I said I stick to that book.


Protestantism is a complete contradiction on this issue. How can you claim a book has authority over everyone yet the book was put together by the church that you reject.

Firstly, I do not reject church, stop taking with your own imaginations.
Secondly, if the Chuch said this is the Book, so I am judging the Church
according to this Book, which she says is Holy and binding us and the
Church. What is strange in that? Does the fact, that Church is pointing
to the Book means, that she has to not obey that Book???


again you completely misunderstand what infallible means

I know what it means, but I am not going to search for every detail, if it is taught infallibly or not.
The matter which is important, is that Church teaches such and such. I dont care what rank has
the teaching, becasue it influences belivers. Btw, you are an exellent example, how stupid this idea
is - instead of talking on the topic which matters, you are elaborating irrelevant details about some
catholic internal theologic formal divisions. Probably it was created for that purpose.


the bible itself says 24 hour days were created on the fourth day of creation,

It is totaly untrue.
Time was created on the first day, because the space and matter cannot exist without time.
You can be in the emptiness without watch, but it doesn't mean, that time is not running or
that you cannot measure him. You just not have the watch. This is exactly what was created
(or maybe just did start to be visible) on the fourth day. You have not even basic idea what
the verse which you are talking about is claiming...


no pope or christian believed the way you evangelicals and protestants do about genesis.

So, read the cathechism or whatever what you think is infillable.
I know traditional catholics and I know from the first hand, what
the catholic teaching, former and present, is about the Genesis.
So please, just stop it.


only you and your opinion says its worshiping,

Ok, so if you will regularly pray to Buddha before his statue,
and at the same time you will be claiming, that this is not
idolatry, but a talk, then it will be not an idolatry???? :picard1:


we catholics know our own hearts

The Bible says:

'The heart is more devious than any other thing, and is depraved; who can pierce its secrets?
I, Yahweh, search the heart, test the motives, to give each person what his conduct and his actions deserve.
(...)
whoever trusts in Yahweh will prosper. He that trusts in his own heart is a fool,.



and know we alone worship God the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit ( a teaching you also have from us).

Man, you are really deluded... :picard1:
I allready said to you couple of times THAT I AM NOT A PROTESTANT,
and you still impose, that I am some part of plural "you". :picard1:

I DO NOT BELIVE IN THE TRINITY AS IT IS NOT BIBLICAL TEACHING,
so how can I have that teaching from you, or be a protestant at all??? :picard2:

Do you even listen what I am talking to you,
or you just disscuss with your own imagination?


As ive shown you Jesus said God is God of the living and not the dead when speaking of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So how are they dead??

He was speaking about resurrection - for God they are as they would be alive,
becasue they will be resureced. It is the very teaching that Jesus was teaching
there Saducess who did not belive in resurrection and were mocking Jesus for
teaching this. If you think, that ressurection allready happend, then according
to apostle Paul, you have to be cut off from the church as a gengrene:

Talk of this kind spreads corruption like gangrene, as in the case of Hymenaeus
and Philetus, the men who have gone astray from the truth, claiming that the
resurrection has already taken place. They are upsetting some people's faith.


During the transfiguration Jesus clearly speaks to Moses who according to you is Dead, how could this be possible if he wasnt alive in heaven.

It was just a vision.
And does not Church teaches that in
Sheol souls are partialy conscious??


Jesus said to ask people to pray for you, you can pray directly to God but also ask your friends to pray for you. The whole point of Jesus's death is that he united us again to God and heaven so that we could now enter into paradise with God. This means the saints on earth are no longer seperated from our loved ones after death (the saints in heaven). The bible says they are praying for us constantly. Meaning we can ask them to continue to pray to God for us. This has nothing to do with worshiping.

:picard2:


Lol you better be careful as unless you are seventh day adventist

So now I am 7DA??? :picard2:
Can you finally decide which delusion about me is the correct one?


The bible also clearly says when Jesus was raised on the third day many souls came out of their graves and were visible in the towns. This clearly shows Jesus is the resurection and the life, we already have life in him now.

1. This passage is very unclear, can mean also, that people who saw this event, went to the city and talk about what happen.
2. They went to the city and... didn't go to heaven...
3. As was quoted by me in the verse, clearly shows, that ressurection
didn't yet happen some 20 years later, so the more it didn't happen then.


Bible clearly says they are bringing the prayers of us on earth infront of God,

Nope. This is just your addition to the text.


even if it is symobilsm its symbolism of what will actually and is actually happening. You can deny it all you want the bible doesnt support you, and its not me who is twisting the bible as 2000 years of Christians held my views, not yours.

Democracy is not a good tool to determine the truth.
Majority in Israel worshipped to Baal, and majority sentenced Jesus to death.
If you really want to go after the crowd it is your bussiness, but it doesn't mean, that the crowd is right.


If they arent angels, and not God they have to be humans, its the only option.

Why do you limit God?
Btw, I didn't say, they certainly are not humans, angels, cherubs, serafs, or whatever.
I just pointed to the fact, that Bible does not explain who they are, and you cannot claim,
that you certainly know, who they are, becasue Bible herself doesn't say it.


you neither pray to saints nor have incense so non of your religion makes sense according to the bible. What do the symbols represent? you cant answer that question because it doesnt support your american protestant views.

So, now I am a protestent again? :bored:
The point is, that angels do not bear prayers to God, becasue God can hear them without it.
Neither there is written that they do such thing. It is your private addition to the text. They
just symbolicly use prayers as an incense - whatever it means - and it is clrealy explained in
the very text. It also correspods to other parts of the holy text, as the Pslam 141:2, where
poetically David says, that he wish his prayers be as incense.


Jesus nor the Bible ever said genesis is literal,

Yes, he does.
For example he pointed to the creation of Adam and Eve as a real fact.
The same did apostle Paul and other biblical writers. Do you really want
to convince me, that biblical writers, including Jesus, belive in evolution,
and did not belive, that the history of creation was the real, when Jews
of the time and later Church clearly belived that it was literal? http://emotikona.pl/emotikony/pic/036.gif


infact Genesis literally says 24 hour days were created on the 4th day but you deny this.

Becasue it doesn;t say it. It is just your own invention.
Even if it would be not 24-hours days, there is no room,
neither a need for billions of years of nothingness.


though it clearly says the Sun and the stars were created on the 4th day to dictate the days the times and the years.

So, if you would have a watch, and the sun and stars would
dissipate, then you would not be able to measure 24 hours??? :bored:


A 24 hour day is dicated by the sun. On mars they dont have 24 hour days,

No, 24.40. :picard2:
You really wouldn't be able to count only 24
earthly hours on Mars? Really? The more on earth? :picard2:


but some how simple science escapes you and all protestants. You also have no clue about what the popes believed, you are getting some weird Protestant theory that isnt based in any history.

Can you finally stop to speak to me as to a protestant whom I am not, or you
have problems with understanding a simple sentence: I AM NOT A PROTESTANT.
If you can;t understand this, please ask someone who knows better english to
translate it for you - maybe it is too advanced english for you...


I interpret the bible according to how it has been traditionally intepreted by the Christian faithful for 2000 years

So, traditionally for 2000 years it was interpreted, that God created everything
in six days, 6000 years ago. So why do you interpret differently, than the church
did through 2000 years, and in addition you falsly claim, that you do as they did
through such long period of time. Don't be a liar.


and according to how the Church who put it together has taught it should be interpreted. You protestants interpret it through modern eyes and have complete lost sight of the context the bible was written in.

1. I AM NOT A PROSTESTANT - how many times have I to reapet it, until you undertsand it??? Are you retarded?
2. How it is possible, that traditional, 2000 years teaching teaches, that evolution is biblical, and God does not
created wolrd directly in six days, but beliving as it is written in the Bible, that God did create everything in six
days, is a looking at this through modern eyes?????? http://emotikona.pl/emotikony/pic/036.gif


Amazing how you insult the early christians as heretics when these same people put the bible together.

Ok, so cut your dick, as Origenes did, if he is so saint example for you... :picard1:


How can the bible have the authority it has if the Church and people who put it together were all heretics.

Becasue holy spirit does not depend on people.


So all early Christians who were taught even in some cases by the apostles themselves are heretics but Protestants over 1500 years later suddenly have the true Christian faith and then even later american protestantism has the true faith :D

WHERE I SAID, THAT PROTESTANTISM IS THE TRUE FAITH?? WHERE?????!!!!

CAN YOU FINALLY STOP IMPUTTING ME THINGS WHICH I DID NOT SAID???

YOU REALLY CANNOT UNDERSTAND IT?


. utter nonsense.

YEA, nonsense, which you had created in your own delusion...


You guys are filled with contradictions. I hope one day you will be reunited to the one and true Catholic church. You deny the Bible and the people who put it together.

:picard2:

[Karol Klačansky]

Yea, sure...



Ok, so as far as I now, Church ex cathedra taught,
that God created everything in six literal days 6000
years ago. So, you have to belive in that.

Btw, I do not care, if Church is teaching lies and heresies
ex cathedra or not - what she teaches she teaches and I
am talking about this. Through centuries was teaching as
that, so now choose, which teaching is infallible and which
is not. If you have problems with that, ask sedevacantists,
lefebrists, or whatever who stick to traditional catholicism.




Firstly, Jesus was the one who was speaking about the Bible,
secondly, if Church said that it is the Holy Scriptue, ok, I can
live with that, and still jugde her according to the Book, which
she declars to be the Holy One, the Word of God, and a basis
of church teachings. What is strange in that? If I say, I live by
rules containing in some book, you can judge me according to
it - only becasue I said I stick to that book.



Firstly, I do not reject church, stop taking with your own imaginations.
Secondly, if the Chuch said this is the Book, so I am judging the Church
according to this Book, which she says is Holy and binding us and the
Church. What is strange in that? Does the fact, that Church is pointing
to the Book means, that she has to not obey that Book???



I know what it means, but I am not going to search for every detail, if it is taught infallibly or not.
The matter which is important, is that Church teaches such and such. I dont care what rank has
the teaching, becasue it influences belivers. Btw, you are an exellent example, how stupid this idea
is - instead of talking on the topic which matters, you are elaborating irrelevant details about some
catholic internal theologic formal divisions. Probably it was created for that purpose.



It is totaly untrue.
Time was created on the first day, because the space and matter cannot exist without time.
You can be in the emptiness without watch, but it doesn't mean, that time is not running or
that you cannot measure him. You just not have the watch. This is exactly what was created
(or maybe just did start to be visible) on the fourth day. You have not even basic idea what
the verse which you are talking about is claiming...



So, read the cathechism or whatever what you think is infillable.
I know traditional catholics and I know from the first hand, what
the catholic teaching, former and present, is about the Genesis.
So please, just stop it.



Ok, so if you will regularly pray to Buddha before his statue,
and at the same time you will be claiming, that this is not
idolatry, but a talk, then it will be not an idolatry???? :picard1:



The Bible says:

'The heart is more devious than any other thing, and is depraved; who can pierce its secrets?
I, Yahweh, search the heart, test the motives, to give each person what his conduct and his actions deserve.
(...)
whoever trusts in Yahweh will prosper. He that trusts in his own heart is a fool,.




Man, you are really deluded... :picard1:
I allready said to you couple of times THAT I AM NOT A PROTESTANT,
and you still impose, that I am some part of plural "you". :picard1:

I DO NOT BELIVE IN THE TRINITY AS IT IS NOT BIBLICAL TEACHING,
so how can I have that teaching from you, or be a protestant at all??? :picard2:

Do you even listen what I am talking to you,
or you just disscuss with your own imagination?



He was speaking about resurrection - for God they are as they would be alive,
becasue they will be resureced. It is the very teaching that Jesus was teaching
there Saducess who did not belive in resurrection and were mocking Jesus for
teaching this. If you think, that ressurection allready happend, then according
to apostle Paul, you have to be cut off from the church as a gengrene:

Talk of this kind spreads corruption like gangrene, as in the case of Hymenaeus
and Philetus, the men who have gone astray from the truth, claiming that the
resurrection has already taken place. They are upsetting some people's faith.



It was just a vision.
And does not Church teaches that in
Sheol souls are partialy conscious??



:picard2:



So now I am 7DA??? :picard2:
Can you finally decide which delusion about me is the correct one?



1. This passage is very unclear, can mean also, that people who saw this event, went to the city and talk about what happen.
2. They went to the city and... didn't go to heaven...
3. As was quoted by me in the verse, clearly shows, that ressurection
didn't yet happen some 20 years later, so the more it didn't happen then.



Nope. This is just your addition to the text.



Democracy is not a good tool to determine the truth.
Majority in Israel worshipped to Baal, and majority sentenced Jesus to death.
If you really want to go after the crowd it is your bussiness, but it doesn't mean, that the crowd is right.



Why do you limit God?
Btw, I didn't say, they certainly are not humans, angels, cherubs, serafs, or whatever.
I just pointed to the fact, that Bible does not explain who they are, and you cannot claim,
that you certainly know, who they are, becasue Bible herself doesn't say it.



So, now I am a protestent again? :bored:
The point is, that angels do not bear prayers to God, becasue God can hear them without it.
Neither there is written that they do such thing. It is your private addition to the text. They
just symbolicly use prayers as an incense - whatever it means - and it is clrealy explained in
the very text. It also correspods to other parts of the holy text, as the Pslam 141:2, where
poetically David says, that he wish his prayers be as incense.



Yes, he does.
For example he pointed to the creation of Adam and Eve as a real fact.
The same did apostle Paul and other biblical writers. Do you really want
to convince me, that biblical writers, including Jesus, belive in evolution,
and did not belive, that the history of creation was the real, when Jews
of the time and later Church clearly belived that it was literal? http://emotikona.pl/emotikony/pic/036.gif



Becasue it doesn;t say it. It is just your own invention.
Even if it would be not 24-hours days, there is no room,
neither a need for billions of years of nothingness.



So, if you would have a watch, and the sun and stars would
dissipate, then you would not be able to measure 24 hours??? :bored:



No, 24.40. :picard2:
You really wouldn't be able to count only 24
earthly hours on Mars? Really? The more on earth? :picard2:



Can you finally stop to speak to me as to a protestant whom I am not, or you
have problems with understanding a simple sentence: I AM NOT A PROTESTANT.
If you can;t understand this, please ask someone who knows better english to
translate it for you - maybe it is too advanced english for you...



So, traditionally for 2000 years it was interpreted, that God created everything
in six days, 6000 years ago. So why do you interpret differently, than the church
did through 2000 years, and in addition you falsly claim, that you do as they did
through such long period of time. Don't be a liar.



1. I AM NOT A PROSTESTANT - how many times have I to reapet it, until you undertsand it??? Are you retarded?
2. How it is possible, that traditional, 2000 years teaching teaches, that evolution is biblical, and God does not
created wolrd directly in six days, but beliving as it is written in the Bible, that God did create everything in six
days, is a looking at this through modern eyes?????? http://emotikona.pl/emotikony/pic/036.gif



Ok, so cut your dick, as Origenes did, if he is so saint example for you... :picard1:



Becasue holy spirit does not depend on people.



WHERE I SAID, THAT PROTESTANTISM IS THE TRUE FAITH?? WHERE?????!!!!

CAN YOU FINALLY STOP IMPUTTING ME THINGS WHICH I DID NOT SAID???

YOU REALLY CANNOT UNDERSTAND IT?



YEA, nonsense, which you had created in your own delusion...



:picard2:You haven't studied enough of Christian history to discuss this topic. Amazing u make such bold statements when u haven't in the least researched where the Bible comes from and who put it together. Also who knows if you are Protestant or not. You don't believe in the trinity which means u aren't even Christian. Evolution is also a fact and Catholic Pope's never said the earth was created in 6 24 hour days. It was always seen as having a deeper meaning as the Bible says 1 day to God is a thousand years and a thousand years 1 day, but ur lack of knowledge of the Bible is even worse than your lack of knowledge of church and Christian history.

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[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Rethel and Stannis are Jehovah's Witnesses and therefore Polish traitors.

[Stannis]

Rethel and Stannis are Jehovah's Witnesses and therefore Polish traitors.

:picard2:
I'm not JW and I've never been.

[Karol Klačansky]

Rethel and Stannis are Jehovah's Witnesses and therefore Polish traitors.Seems like it.

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[Rethel]

Seems like it.

Lastly many things seems to you... protestants, evangelicals, adventists, now JWs... what will seem to you tomorrow?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Seems like it.

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They clearly are Jehovah's Witnesses, a pain the ass. When I was living in Poland these people were knocking on my door all the time. It is clear that Rethel and Stannis do not adhere to Roman Catholicism and therefore are seen as deviant and traitors among the most conservative sect of the Polish society.

[Karol Klačansky]

Lastly many things seems to you... protestants, evangelicals, adventists, now JWs... what will seem to you tomorrow?You obviously aren't ashamed to say u don't believe in evolution. I myself am ashamed to deny blatant facts but you are ashamed to mention what denomination u are a part of.

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[Lucia]

Rethel and Stannis are Jehovah's Witnesses and therefore Polish traitors.

It all makes sense now!

[Karol Klačansky]

They clearly are Jehovah's Witnesses, a pain the ass. When I was living in Poland these people were knocking on my door all the time. It is clear that Rethel and Stannis do not adhere to Roman Catholicism and therefore are seen as deviant and traitors among the most conservative sect of the Polish society.What's amazing is how they are ashamed to say what denomination they belong to but go around constantly talk about their faith. It's like me screaming how much I love watching soccer but then never telling any one what team I support.

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[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

You obviously aren't ashamed to say u don't believe in evolution. I myself am ashamed to deny blatant facts but you are ashamed to mention what denomination u are a part of.

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It all makes sense now!

They can't admit it openly because these people are persecuted in Poland (being serious). Polish identity and Roman Catholicism goes hand in hand, adhering to something different is seen as treason in there. Try saying to a Pole that Karol Józef Wojtyła was an idolater like these guys say in here and good luck with that...

[Ülev]

:picard2:
Pentecostalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentecostalism)



















































(jk)

[Karol Klačansky]

They can't admit it openly because these people are persecuted in Poland (being serious). Polish identity and Roman Catholicism goes hand in hand, adhering to something different is seen as treason in there. Try saying to a Pole that Karol Józef Wojtyła was an idolater like this guys say in here and good luck with that...Maybe not in real life but on a forum it should be easy. He openly insults pope JP2 on here anyways so that's not the problem. Its how all these cultic sects are they don't tell u who they are ever because they slowly want to trap u into it with them.

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[Stannis]

They clearly are Jehovah's Witnesses, a pain the ass.

Because you say so? Your lies have no meaning.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Because you say so? Your lies have no meaning.

All I know is that you're not a Roman Catholic and therefore not a "real" Pole. You can trick others but not me, I used to live in Poland. People like you and Rethel are seen as undesirable in there.

[Stannis]

All I know is that you're not a Roman Catholic

I am, but the true Catholic, not idolater like most of false catholics.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I am, but the true Catholic, not idolater like most of false catholics.

Yes, that's exactly what Jehovah Witnesses usually say, rotfl. "We are the real Catholics", typical sectarian cults.

[Stannis]

Try saying to a Pole that Karol Józef Wojtyła was an idolater like this guys say in here and good luck with that...

I'm permanently saying it and also that Francis is worst pope than Wojtyła was.
People, which I say it, generally they have no arguments and change a topic.

[Karol Klačansky]

Yes, that's exactly what Jehovah Witnesses usually say, rotfl. "We are the real Catholics", typical sectarian cults.They most definitely aren't Roman Catholic or any Catholic rite. They aren't even the sectarian old Catholics, and definitely not Eastern Orthodox. Ur right how could I not see it immediately. They are JW

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[Stannis]

Yes, that's exactly what Jehovah Witnesses usually say, rotfl. "We are the real Catholics", typical sectarian cults.

I don't care what they say. As far as I know, they don't accept the Roman Church as the Church of Christ.
I do quite inversely, but I don't follow blindly for popes like most of the members of the Church.

[Dick]

They clearly are Jehovah's Witnesses, a pain the ass. When I was living in Poland these people were knocking on my door all the time. It is clear that Rethel and Stannis do not adhere to Roman Catholicism and therefore are seen as deviant and traitors among the most conservative sect of the Polish society.

I didn't know that there's Jehova's witnesses in Europe. They rarely knock on people's doors over here anymore. They also support each other financially like jews, that's probably how they lure converts into their sect nowadays.

[Stannis]

T Ur right how could I not see it immediately.


Because it is untruth and propagating this, you throw a calumny!
And this a sin.

Don't get attached to this idea, because for a hour you change your
mind again. I'm afraid now, what you imagine yourself next...

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I didn't know there are Jehova's witnesses in Europe. They rarely knock on people's doors over here anymore. They also support each other financially like jews, that's probably how they lure converts into their sect nowadays.

There are but the worse in Portugal right now is this bullshit Brazilian pentecostal\evangelic crap. In Poland the Jehova got the addresses of nearly every single foreigner student in there where I was living and were knocking in our doors nearly every week, inviting us to attend their meetings. Probably our addresses where provided by someone who was a Jehova and worked at the University back office, I can't find another explanation because several friends of mine living in other parts of the city were contacted by them.

I just had to ask a Polish friend to write a letter to the concierge, you should have seen her face, she was utterly mad to know that the keen of Rethel and Stannis were coming in. It was the last time they bothered me.

[Rethel]

They clearly are Jehovah's Witnesses, a pain the ass. When I was living in Poland these people were knocking on my door all the time. It is clear that Rethel and Stannis do not adhere to Roman Catholicism and therefore are seen as deviant and traitors among the most conservative sect of the Polish society.

You seems to not be aware, but typical JW would deny,
the same as protestant, apostolic succession. Did I?

The very fact, that JWs belive in something has to mean, that others cannot? :picard2:


You obviously aren't ashamed to say u don't believe in evolution.

Yopu are a weak detective, as Viriatio.
If you wuld have any idea about JWs, you would know,
that they do not belive in six literal days of creation. :picard1:


I myself am ashamed to deny blatant facts but you are ashamed to mention what denomination u are a part of.

The only denomination to which I belong (at least formaly) is Catholic Church.
If atheists can belong to her, why properly beliving Christians cannot?

[Rethel]

They can't admit it openly because these people are persecuted in Poland (being serious).

:picard2:


Polish identity and Roman Catholicism goes hand in hand,

:picard2:


adhering to something different is seen as treason in there.

:picard2:


Try saying to a Pole that Karol Józef Wojtyła was an idolater like these guys say in here and good luck with that...

In childhood I was very antycatholic (about their practisies). For example
an eight grade I was quoting some pseudoprophesies, that on the throne
of pope seats Satan, and was painting pop's pictures in handbook with
pentagrams aso - and I am still alive, noone made me any harm... :picard2:

[Rethel]

Yes, that's exactly what Jehovah Witnesses usually say, rotfl. "We are the real Catholics", typical sectarian cults.

You clearly had never met a one... :picard2:

[Rethel]

They also support each other financially like jews, that's probably how they lure converts into their sect nowadays.

And are mixing blood? :picard2:

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Hitting a nerve Rethel? Now everyone knows that you're a Jehovah Witness, it's time for you to openly admit it.

[Rethel]

In Poland the Jehova got the addresses of nearly every single foreigner student

Jehovah knows adresses of everybody, as he is Allmighty and Omnipotent.


provided by someone who was a Jehova

God still is the Jehovah, but I do not think, he is directly providing adresses
to Witnessists... especially, that there are some problems with them... :pout:

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Being so defensive about JW is something no Roman Catholic Pole would ever do. Try to disguise it better next time.

[Rethel]

Being so defensive about JW is something no Roman Catholic Pole would ever do. Try to disguise it better next time.

And being so defensive about Catholic Church and six days
Creation, is something what Witnessist would never do. So?

Not my fault that you are talking nonsense, which you support by another
nonsense... I know very well what Witnessists belive and how they behave,
as they have many right belives which I share, but I am not one of them.
They usually do not even want to speak with me. So how can I be? :picard1:


Roman Catholic Pole would ever do.

I am christian first above everything else - denomination or nationaly.
And I want to rimind you, that I am Polgerman from Mazowia... and a
Sarmatian. Not some Kashub with whom you had to deal.