What is the Difference between the Beginnings of Islam and the Church of Latter Day Saints?

[Teucer]

Both started from the 'revelations' of two men, Muhammad and Joseph Smith, that no one else could falsify, claiming to have been visited by an angel and were then able to attract a number of followers.

In this regard, the origin of both religions' is quite similar.

Both religions prohibit the consumption of alcohol, narcotics, gambling, etc.. Both prescribe fasting and chastity. Both vilify homosexuality. Both deny the Trinity.

Why do you choose to believe the revelations of Muhammad over those of Joseph Smith?

What insights in Islam convince you of its validity, over those of Mormonism?

[Messier 67]

Mormons believe:


An oft-repeated claim is that Mormons believe Jesus is the brother of Satan. Like many other provocative claims against Mormonism this is only a half-truth; a half-truth which leaves the uninformed reader with the false impression that Mormons place Jesus and Satan on equal footing. This could not be further from the truth–it is a distortion of what Mormons actually believe.
Latter-day Saints believe that God is the father of all spirits (Hebrews 12:9). These spirits include all humans, as well as angels, demons (including Satan), and Jesus Christ. In this sense, we are all brothers and sisters to each other. We are all brothers and sisters to Christ, as well as to Satan.

http://mormonvoices.org/1/jesus-brother-of-satan

[Teucer]

Mormons believe:



http://mormonvoices.org/1/jesus-brother-of-satan

But to be against this idea requires someone to already have a theological position. Of course there are differences between their doctrines, but considering the similarity of their origins, how does someone choose between them or discern which is correct?

[Arduti]

1.) Muhammad was a direct descendant of Abraham via Ishmael, Joseph Smith wasn't.
2.) Ishmael is a promised nation according to the Tanakh, LDS isn't.
3.) The Tanakh prophesies of an unlettered/unlearned prophet who would be sent to the Israelite people. This is Muhammad, and the Israelites in question are the Lost Tribes who were removed from the Kingdom of Israel by the Assyrian Empire 1100 years before the coming of Muhammad and no longer had consciousness of their Israelite identities. See Isaiah 11:11 for where these Lost Tribes are today. Muslim nations. Of course, Muhammad was sent to more people than just the Israelites, and I am not inferring otherwise.
4.) Muhammad cleared all of the pagan idols out of the Kaaba which his ancestors Abraham and Ishmael had built. What did Joseph Smith ever do for any Holy Land, either Jerusalem or Mecca?
5.) Islam says Muhammad is the seal of the prophets, meaning there would not be anymore after him.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

1.) Muhammad was a direct descendant of Abraham via Ishmael, Joseph Smith wasn't.
2.) Ishmael is a promised nation according to the Tanakh, LDS isn't.
3.) The Tanakh prophesies of an unlettered/unlearned prophet who would be sent to the Israelite people. This is Muhammad, and the Israelites in question are the Lost Tribes who were removed from the Kingdom of Israel by the Assyrian Empire 1100 years before the coming of Muhammad and no longer had consciousness of their Israelite identities. See Isaiah 11:11 for where these Lost Tribes are today. Muslim nations. Of course, Muhammad was sent to more people than just the Israelites, and I am not inferring otherwise.
4.) Muhammad cleared all of the pagan idols out of the Kaaba which his ancestors Abraham and Ishmael had built. What did Joseph Smith ever do for any Holy Land, either Jerusalem or Mecca?
5.) Islam says Muhammad is the seal of the prophets, meaning there would not be anymore after him.

How do you know Muhammad was descended from a man who may not have existed?

How do you know Ismael existed?

If I was a self proclaimed prophet I would also say I was the last prophet. There were quite a few people in Muhammad's day claiming they were prophets as well. I'd have to neutralize them.

[Arduti]

Mormons believe:



http://mormonvoices.org/1/jesus-brother-of-satan

The Christian understanding of Satan is bizarre.

Satan is a Creation of the Lord. His purpose is ordained.
He exposes all unbelievers, for the benefit of the believers. He also exposes acts of disbelief amongst the believers, either we are privately or publicly shamed by him, according to the Lord's decree.

BUT. The only way Satan is helpful is by being very far from his works, which is why we should consider him our enemy, lest we become stung or stinking with shame.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Both started from the 'revelations' of two men, Muhammad and Joseph Smith, that no one else could falsify, claiming to have been visited by an angel and were then able to attract a number of followers.

In this regard, the origin of both religions' is quite similar.

Both religions prohibit the consumption of alcohol, narcotics, gambling, etc.. Both prescribe fasting and chastity. Both vilify homosexuality. Both deny the Trinity.

Why do you choose to believe the revelations of Muhammad over those of Joseph Smith?

What insights in Islam convince you of its validity, over those of Mormonism?

I've argued a similar point. Both guys wandered off into the wilderness and came back claiming they were a prophet. Both made statements that were dependent on the moment and would later contradict themselves because the circumstances changed. Both really liked to bang chicks.

[Messier 67]

But to be against this idea requires someone to already have a theological position. Of course there are differences between their doctrines, but considering the similarity of their origins, how does someone choose between them or discern which is correct?

https://steynian.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/hagia-sophia.jpg

[Teucer]

1.) Muhammad was a direct descendant of Abraham via Ishmael, Joseph Smith wasn't.
2.) Ishmael is a promised nation according to the Tanakh, LDS isn't.
3.) The Tanakh prophesies of an unlettered/unlearned prophet who would be sent to the Israelite people. This is Muhammad, and the Israelites in question are the Lost Tribes who were removed from the Kingdom of Israel by the Assyrian Empire 1100 years before the coming of Muhammad and no longer had consciousness of their Israelite identities. See Isaiah 11:11 for where these Lost Tribes are today. Muslim nations. Of course, Muhammad was sent to more people than just the Israelites, and I am not inferring otherwise.
4.) Muhammad cleared all of the pagan idols out of the Kaaba which his ancestors Abraham and Ishmael had built. What did Joseph Smith ever do for any Holy Land, either Jerusalem or Mecca?
5.) Islam says Muhammad is the seal of the prophets, meaning there would not be anymore after him.

1) How could that be proven?
2) This point is predicated on the validity of the previous point
3) From the writing of the Tanakh, was there not a single illiterate prophet? Also, if the basis of faith is on prophecies, Christian apologists can also list off a number of 'prophecies' stated in the Bible that also came true. Some of these include the rise of Islam as a 'false faith'. How does someone choose which is the right one?
4) That only indicates a perceived piety on the part of the person who believes it was pious for Muhammad to do so, and not the veracity of the religion
5) Citing a doctrine of a religion to then validate said religion is a logical inconsistency

[Teucer]

https://steynian.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/hagia-sophia.jpg

I'm not Christian

[Arduti]

How do you know Muhammad was descended from a man who may not have existed?

How do you know Ismael existed?


I believe the Tanakh.
I believe the Quran.

[Arduti]

1) How could that be proven?
2) This point is predicated on the validity of the previous point
3) From the writing of the Tanakh, was there not a single illiterate prophet? Also, if the basis of faith is on prophecies, Christian apologists can also list off a number of 'prophecies' stated in the Bible that also came true. Some of these include the rise of Islam as a 'false faith'. How does someone choose which is the right one?
4) That only indicates a perceived piety on the part of the person who believes it was pious for Muhammad to do so, and not the veracity of the religion
5) Citing a doctrine of a religion to then validate said religion is a logical inconsistency

5.) The Tankah also says, in a way, that the "unlettered prophet" is the "seal of prophets"
It is said thus:
The prophet before him was presented a Scripture, of which he said, "I have knowledge, but I do not have the seal" (Jesus)
But the unlettered prophet said, "I do not have knowledge, but I have the seal" (Muhammad)
So the Scripture was opened to him
What else could this Scripture be besides Quran?

The meaning of seal, according to Tanakh, connotes something different than it does in Islam, "seal of prophets" could have two (or more) different meanings, as is often the case.

1.) & 2.) I cannot prove anything, and you will not believe that which you are not inclined to believe anyway.
3.) The Tanakh says there will be many diviners and dreamers who have knowledge, but that they are not of benefit to believers. This is an interesting topic but a separate thread can be started for it.
4.) Someone who has little value for religion and piety will always prefer the preservation of any worldly thing that can be studied, as if knowledge is the be-all end-all. Beresheit proves otherwise; the forbidden fruit came from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

[Decius]

Lol mormonism is like Islam for people of european descent Both mormonism and Islam are false religions, Mormons arent as crazy though

[Teucer]

5.) The Tankah also says, in a way, that the "unlettered prophet" is the "seal of prophets"
It is said thus:
The prophet before him was presented a Scripture, of which he said, "I have knowledge, but I do not have the seal" (Jesus)
But the unlettered prophet said, "I do not have knowledge, but I have the seal" (Muhammad)
So the Scripture was opened to him
What else could this Scripture be besides Quran?

The meaning of seal, according to Tanakh, connotes something different than it does in Islam, "seal of prophets" could have two (or more) different meanings, as is often the case.

1.) & 2.) I cannot prove anything, and you will not believe that which you are not inclined to believe anyway.
3.) The Tanakh says there will be many diviners and dreamers who have knowledge, but that they are not of benefit to believers. This is an interesting topic but a separate thread can be started for it.
4.) Someone who has little value for religion and piety will always prefer the preservation of any worldly thing that can be studied, as if knowledge is the be-all end-all. Beresheit proves otherwise; the forbidden fruit came from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

My point is no one is predisposed to a particular faith, it has to be nurtured. Most likely when the religious person is very young.

I realise this is why faith is called faith to begin with, but my question is why do you believe in the Tanakh and the Quran? Were you brought up in Islam or did you later adopt it?

[monfret]

The Christian understanding of Satan is bizarre.

Satan is a Creation of the Lord. His purpose is ordained.
He exposes all unbelievers, for the benefit of the believers. He also exposes acts of disbelief amongst the believers, either we are privately or publicly shamed by him, according to the Lord's decree.

BUT. The only way Satan is helpful is by being very far from his works, which is why we should consider him our enemy, lest we become stung or stinking with shame.

Muhammed was never prophesied in the Torah,and all it says is that Yishmael will be a wild nation against everyone.


the christian narative of Jesus was prophesied in the Torah clearly in Isaiah 53.

as for Satan being God´s Servant that contradicts the Torah יב אַף-אָמְנָם, אֵל לֹא-יַרְשִׁיעַ; וְשַׁדַּי, לֹא-יְעַוֵּת מִשְׁפָּט. 12 Yea, of a surety, God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert justice.

this also destroys the Islamic doctrine of Qadr.where God breathes in man his piety and his evil,and is truly responsible for his evil actions.