To Russian/Slavic users: do these 2 women look Russian/Slavic?

[Lavrentis]

http://mariannademartino.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/LorettadeFalco1.jpg

http://mariannademartino.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tiziana-de-giacomo-41.jpg

[Lavrentis]

Non Russian/Slavic people can contribure to the thread and vote too.

[Austrvegr]

Yes, they can pass.

[Ülev]

first - looks like Maria Zakharova, so Russian vibe
second - more Baltic Republic area (Lithuania, Belarus, Poland)

[Veslan]

First is passable because of dinarization, second is passable because of a broad head.

[Lavrentis]

First is passable because of dinarization

Dinarization is present in most of Europe though, so I wouldn't attribute it to somewhere specifically. But to me she looks Russian. That's what I would guess if I saw her anywhere.

[Tacitus]

Non Russian/Slavic people can contribure to the thread and vote too.

I don't see it imo.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I think that they can pass in Russia. But i don't think that this look is very Slavic.

[Freeroostah]

yes they could, especially the first one

[Lavrentis]

I don't see it imo.

Feel free to vote. I hope you don't mind that I took these two photos from your previous thread?

[Lavrentis]

Bump

[Sikeliot]

Lavrentis is trying to prove Italians look more Slavic than Greeks do :lol: Absolutely ridiculous if he legitimately thinks this.

[dperucca]

Where are they from?

[Lavrentis]

Lavrentis is trying to prove Italians look more Slavic than Greeks do :lol: Idiot.

I'm not trying to prove anything, yesterday you said that neither of these women look Slavic but look at the results of the poll so far.

You are the one who tries to prove that Greeks are Slavicized, and that has made a lot of users here disagree with you, and I'm not talking about Greek users. I have seen from Portuguese to Norwegian users disagree with your theories about Greeks being Slavicized.

You are also biased, I remember when I posted some light northern Greeks and you was the only user who claimed that they look Slavic. All other people said that they either looked Western European or simply lighter Greeks. A Croatian user said that they wouldn't pass in Croatia and that they look Western European (Croatia is the most Slavic country in the Balkans so he must know something).

And now you are mad because I asked if these two south Italian women looked Slavic? And they do, according to most of the people who voted.

[Sikeliot]

I'm not trying to prove anything, yesterday you said that neither of these women look Slavic but look at the results of the poll so far.

You are the one who tries to prove that Greeks are Slavicized, and that has made a lot of users here disagree with you, and I'm not talking about Greek users. I have seen from Portuguese to Norwegian users disagree with your theories about Greeks being Slavicized.

You are also biased, I remember when I posted some light northern Greeks and you was the only user who claimed that they look Slavic. All other people said that they either looked Western European or simply lighter Greeks. A Croatian user said that they wouldn't pass in Croatia and that they look Western European (Croatia is the most Slavic country in the Balkans so he must know something).

And now you are mad because I asked if these two south Italian women looked Slavic? And they do, according to most of the people who voted.


You have been trying for days now to prove southern Italians look as much, if not more, Slavic than Greeks do. No one ever said Greeks look full blown Russian though I could find people who do, like Tracy Spiridakos. But to suggest southern Italians could look as much Slavic as Greeks is ridiculous when they have less than half the NE European influence Greeks have, and have the lowest in all of Europe.

[Lavrentis]

Where are they from?

South Italy, I opened this thread because Sikeliot said yesterday that they don't look Slavic.

I'm not trying to say that south Italians look Slavic, just to see whether I'm right in my argument with Sikeliot.

[Sikeliot]

South Italy, I opened this thread because Sikeliot said yesterday that they don't look Slavic.

I'm not trying to say that south Italians look Slavic, just to see whether I'm right in my argument with Sikeliot.

You are trying to prove southern Italians look more North(east) Euro than Greeks do. Again, good luck proving that.

[Lavrentis]

You have been trying for days now to prove southern Italians look as much, if not more, Slavic than Greeks do.

Wrong, can you prove it?


though I could find people who do, like Tracy Spiridakos.

That's what you say because you are biased, but if Tracy Spiridakos was northern Italian you'd say that she looks Germanic. And in reality she looks more German than Russian. You can open a thread about her.

[Lavrentis]

You are trying to prove southern Italians look more North(east) Euro than Greeks do. Again, good luck proving that.

Wrong.

[Sikeliot]

Wrong, can you prove it?

[QUOTE=Sikeliot;4719022]though I could find people who do, like Tracy Spiridakos.[/QUOTE[

That's what you say because you are biased, but if Tracy Spiridakos was northern Italian you'd say that she looks Germanic. And in reality she looks more German than Russian. You can open a thread about her.


She looks more Polish or Czech, neither fully western nor fully eastern. But the point is ever since i made my comments, which are verified by science, that there is more North European input in Greece than in southern Italy and it is not even close, you've been trying to find every Italian who looks Slavic as possible. cybernautic does the same. Greeks are so insecure about their North European input.

Why does it even affect you? Cretans don't have Slavic input.

[dperucca]

Why does it have to be an argument that Southern Italians (Italians in general) are genetically diverse and have a variety of features? There are Slavic people who could pass as Mediterranean. I have no emotional investment in admitting that lol.

It would be fun to see a guess their ethnicity poll using Italians/Slavs/Greeks/Albanians. I feel like that might trigger a lot of people though lol.

[Lucia]

The first one doesn't look Slavic to me, she looks like J.K. Rowling.
The second one reminds me of one of our singers, so I guess she can. xD

[Sikeliot]

Why does it have to be an argument that Southern Italians (Italians in general) are genetically diverse and have a variety of features? There are Slavic people who could pass as Mediterranean. I have no emotional investment in admitting that lol. .

Slavic features are not part of that diversity since southern Italians have too low of NE European DNA. This is not true for Greece (even if most do not look Slavic), but for some reason the Greek users here want to deny this. Any "Slavic" DNA in south Italy came from Greece anyway.

[Sikeliot]

The first one doesn't look Slavic to me, she looks like J.K. Rowling.

I made that exact comparison. She looks English or Irish, not Slavic.

[Lavrentis]

But the point is ever since i made my comments, which are verified by science, that there is more North European input in Greece than in southern Italy and it is not even close, you've been trying to find every Italian who looks Slavic as possible. cybernautic does the same. Greeks are so insecure about their North European input.

Why does it even affect you? Cretans don't have Slavic input.

This is the first thread I open about south Italian individuals who look Slavic, you on the other hand have posted tons of threads about Greeks being Slavicized. I wouldn't mind if the threads you have posted were about some people in northern Greece, but you say that even mainland Greeks are Slavicized.

[dperucca]

Slavic features are not part of that diversity since southern Italians have too low of NE European DNA. This is not true for Greece (even if most do not look Slavic), but for some reason the Greek users here want to deny this. Any "Slavic" DNA in south Italy came from Greece anyway.

Regardless of where it comes from you gotta get on that poll! That would settle it lol. You always come up with a lot of interesting samples.

[Sikeliot]

This is the first thread I open about south Italian individuals who look Slavic, you on the other hand have posted tons of threads about Greeks being Slavicized. I wouldn't mind if the threads you have posted were about some people in northern Greece, but you say that even mainland Greeks are Slavicized.

What I said was is northern Greece -- Epirus, Macedonia, Thessaly, and Thrace -- have marginally less Slavic input than Bulgaria, but enough that they overall look clearly different from any southern Italians. I also said Slavic input is found to a lesser extent on the rest of the mainland, except for near Attica and in Laconia/Tsakonia. The islands have only as much Slavic input as was carried there from the mainland.

[Lavrentis]

Any "Slavic" DNA in south Italy came from Greece anyway.

There is no source about that. Italy got more 'recent' Albanian migration (in the Middle Ages) than it got Greek. Greeks who fled to Italy during the Middle Ages were from Peloponnese and the islands.

[Lavrentis]

What I said was is northern Greece -- Epirus, Macedonia, Thessaly, and Thrace -- have marginally less Slavic input than Bulgaria

I don't think that that's the case but you also ignore that in these provinces you listed is concentrated the bulk of the Anatolian Greek population, except Thessaly.

[Sikeliot]

I don't think that that's the case but you also ignore that in these provinces you listed is concentrated the bulk of the Anatolian Greek population, except Thessaly.

Yes but they make up only a portion of the population. That still leaves many people who are not Anatolian in origin. Besides you don't accept them as Greeks anyway.

[Lavrentis]

Yes but they make up only a portion of the population.

They are little bit less than 50% of the northern Greek population.


Besides you don't accept them as Greeks anyway.

That doesn't change the fact that they exist there. And I can't accept them as Greek when they don't have a Greek culture and a Greek mindset. I have said many times that southern Italians are more Greek than them.

[Sikeliot]

They are little bit less than 50% of the northern Greek population.

Maybe people with partial Anatolian Greek ancestry but it could be as little as 1/8. Doubtful many pure ones exist there now.


That doesn't change the fact that they exist there. And I can't accept them as Greek when they don't have a Greek culture and a Greek mindset. I have said many times that southern Italians are more Greek than them.

Some are. I consider Apulians to be Latinized Greeks. But I think Sicily and Calabria have a lot of Near eastern input and aren't like any mainland Greeks.

[nafz]

Both can pass especially the second one.

Some Italians can have a pseudo Balkan/Slavic look. What I mean is that their look is not really Slavic but someone could interpret it as such.

Example 1

If the guy below were Greek I am sure Sikeliot would say that he looks Bulgarian. Since he is Italian I am also sure he will say that he could not pass as Bulgarian :rolleyes:

http://static1.purepeople.com/articles/3/13/77/23/@/1405877-christian-vieri-is-seen-leaving-bar-opengraph_1200-2.jpg

Example 2
The Italian girl below does indeed look Slavic. If she were Greek, Sikeliot would say that she looks Polish. Since she is Italian, Sikeliot is not going to see any Slavic in her. :)

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/rhythmic-gymnast-marta-pagnini-is-photographed-for-self-assignment-on-picture-id595700530

[Lavrentis]

Both can pass especially the second one.

Some Italians can have a pseudo Balkan/Slavic look. What I mean is that their look is not really Slavic but someone could interpret it as such.

Example 1

If the guy below were Greek I am sure Sikeliot would say that he looks Bulgarian. Since he is Italian I am also sure he will say that he could not pass as Bulgarian :rolleyes:

http://static1.purepeople.com/articles/3/13/77/23/@/1405877-christian-vieri-is-seen-leaving-bar-opengraph_1200-2.jpg

Example 2
The Italian girl below does indeed look Slavic. If she were Greek, Sikeliot would say that she looks Polish. Since she is Italian, Sikeliot is not going to see any Slavic in her. :)

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/rhythmic-gymnast-marta-pagnini-is-photographed-for-self-assignment-on-picture-id595700530

Frankly, the first guy doesn't look Bulgarian to me. There are better examples about Italians who look Balkan, such as Giorgio Chiellini (he looks very Albanian).

But yes, the woman does look Slavic and I don't know how can someone deny this.

[Sikeliot]

Both can pass especially the second one.

Some Italians can have a pseudo Balkan/Slavic look. What I mean is that their look is not really Slavic but someone could interpret it as such.

Well of course it is not actually Slavic. But you surely admit in the case of Greeks who look like that, it is probably some Slavic influence affecting their look.

[Sikeliot]

But yes, the woman does look Slavic and I don't know how can someone deny this.

Is she too "Slavic" for Greece? :lol:

[greasycaveman]

@explorer2017 two south italian women who look slavic. Just to prove that you are not alone...

[Lavrentis]

Maybe people with partial Anatolian Greek ancestry but it could be as little as 1/8. Doubtful many pure ones exist there now.

It doesn't matter if someone is pure Anatolian or not, if he is half Anatolian then his Anatolian side could be easily visible by his autosomal DNA. Especially if his Anatolian side is from Cappadocia or generally somewhere in Central/Eastern Turkey.

[Sikeliot]

It doesn't matter if someone is pure Anatolian or not, if he is half Anatolian then his Anatolian side could be easily visible by his autosomal DNA. Especially if his Anatolian side is from Cappadocia or somewhere in Central/Eastern Turkey.

Maybe mixing mainland Greek with Anatolian Greek will make them finally plot in Sicily :lol:

[nafz]

Frankly, the first guy doesn't look Bulgarian to me. There are better examples about Italians who look Balkan, such as Giorgio Chiellini (he looks very Albanian).

But yes, the woman does look Slavic and I don't know how can someone deny this.

Chiellini looks Albanian indeed. I am not saying that Vieri looks Bulgarian, I am saying he could pass as one.

More photos

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Photo/competitions/Comp_Matches/01/90/14/78/1901478_w21.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Christian_Vieri.jpg/220px-Christian_Vieri.jpg

[Lavrentis]

Is she too "Slavic" for Greece? :lol:

Yes.

[Sikeliot]

Chiellini looks Albanian indeed. I am not saying that Vieri looks Bulgarian, I am saying he could pass as one.

More photos

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Photo/competitions/Comp_Matches/01/90/14/78/1901478_w21.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Christian_Vieri.jpg/220px-Christian_Vieri.jpg


But if he was posted as Greek, Greek users would deny such a look is Bulgarian.

There is a persistent need to find any excuse possible to deny the NE European input into Greece ,everything from claiming Sicilians look Slavic too, to finding other explanations for such looks.

[Sikeliot]

Yes.

So again you're claiming southern Italians look more Slavic than Greeks do.

[nafz]

But if he was posted as Greek, Greek users would deny such a look is Bulgarian.

There is a persistent need to find any excuse possible to deny the NE European input into Greece ,everything from claiming Sicilians look Slavic too, to finding other explanations for such looks.

All I am saying is that such looks in Greece cannot be attributed solely to NE European input since they are also present in other countries were NE European input is minimal to non existent.

[Lavrentis]

So again you're claiming southern Italians look more Slavic than Greeks do.

You are making things up. I said that she looks Slavic and that's the reason she looks off for Greece. She looks off for Italy too.

[Sikeliot]

You are making things up. I said that she looks Slavic and that's the reason she looks off for Greece. She looks off for Italy too.

I don't see why it matters to you. You come from a part of Greece without Slavic in it.

[Lavrentis]

But if he was posted as Greek, Greek users would deny such a look is Bulgarian.

There is a persistent need to find any excuse possible to deny the NE European input into Greece ,everything from claiming Sicilians look Slavic too, to finding other explanations for such looks.

This particular guy, Vieri, looks Balkan in some photos and in some other he looks like a robust Italian.

[Sikeliot]

This particular guy, Vieri, looks Balkan in some photos and in some other he look like a robust Italian.

But if I posted him and said he was Greek, no one would say he looked Bulgarian because again there is a persistent desire on this forum to turn Greeks into Sicilians, Jews and MENAs and deny the Slavic input. There is even a desire to lighten southern Italians to make them like mainland Greeks just to deny the Slavic input.

[Lavrentis]

I don't see why it matters to you. You come from a part of Greece without Slavic in it.

According to this map made by a troll on an anthrofora, a significant part of Crete is Slavic influenced :lol:

https://s31.postimg.org/eid6xv8kr/13770535_690365121117806_5102015285444749814_n.jpg

I wonder which troll made this. Not even Bulgaria and Serbia are that Slavic influenced.

[nafz]

But if he was posted as Greek, Greek users would deny such a look is Bulgarian.


Yes because my point is that such looks are not exclusively Balkan but can be found instead in most of southern European countries. I could probably even find Iberian people who look like this if I searched.

[Lavrentis]

But if I posted him and said he was Greek, no one would say he looked Bulgarian because again there is a persistent desire on this forum to turn Greeks into Sicilians, Jews and MENAs and deny the Slavic input.

That's not true but whatever.

You are over-exxagerating the Slavic input in Greece. Greeks are closer to southern Italians than to Bulgarians, doesn't that say anything to you?

[Sikeliot]

That's not true but whatever.

You are over-exxagerating the Slavic input in Greece. Greeks are closer to southern Italians than to Bulgarians, doesn't that say anything to you?

Not unanimously, no, they are not. Most of the non-Anatolian population of the mainland except for Peloponnese is slightly closer to Bulgarians, and Peloponnesians are intermediate overall but with certain regions closer to southern Italy.

The only places where people are unanimously and consistently closer to southern Italians is the islands. I never said Greeks are MOSTLY Slavic, just that it is obvious enough that an average group of Greeks cannot fit AS ONE GROUP in Sicily and this is the primary difference between the two groups.

[Lavrentis]

Most of the non-Anatolian population of the mainland except for Peloponnese is slightly closer to Bulgarians

That's where I disagree with you because I'm not really sure about this.

[Sikeliot]

That's where I disagree with you because I'm not really sure about this.

I've proven it with GEDmatch results. GEDMatch is down right now but I am going to post 50 or so mainland Greeks and then highlight where they are closer to between Bulgaria and Sicily. You will see nearly all Epirotes, Thessalians, and most Macedonians closer to Bulgaria, and only Peloponnese are closer to Sicily though less so than the islands are.

[Sikeliot]

This map is very rudimentary but you can clearly see Thessalians are closer to Bulgarian than to southern Italian.

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15V4.png

[nafz]

But if I posted him and said he was Greek, no one would say he looked Bulgarian because again there is a persistent desire on this forum to turn Greeks into Sicilians, Jews and MENAs and deny the Slavic input. There is even a desire to lighten southern Italians to make them like mainland Greeks just to deny the Slavic input.

As far as Greeks are concerned, Greek users don't have such desire (to turn Greeks into Sicilians and MENAs) and they don't desire to turn them into Slavs either.

Greeks are Greeks :D

[Sikeliot]

As far Greeks are concerned, Greek users don't have such desire (to turn Greeks into Sicilians and MENAs) and they don't desire to turn them into Slavs either.

Greeks are Greeks :D

But don't you think it is a bit ridiculous to pretend there is no difference to southern Italians but a large difference to Bulgaria? Which is exactly what people on here do. People from the north and most of the mainland just do not look like southern Italians.

[Lavrentis]

This map is very rudimentary but you can clearly see Thessalians are closer to Bulgarian than to southern Italian.

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15V4.png

Isn't this the map that was posted in a previous thread about a Sicilian actor? I have seen it a lot of times in here. I have noticed that maps can usually give different results. In a map that the user RN97 posted Greeks were overall closer to south Italians than to Bulgarians.

[Sikeliot]

Isn't this the map that was posted in a previous thread about a Sicilian actor? I have seen it a lot of times in here. I have noticed that maps can usually give different results. In a map that the user RN97 posted Greeks were overall closer to south Italians than to Bulgarians.


This is from a professional study, and the Greek sample is closer to Bulgaria (minus 2 outliers). Would you rather I start saying southern Italians have Levantine influence to explain the difference to Greeks?

https://images.nature.com/full/nature-assets/nature/journal/v513/n7518/images/nature13673-f2.jpg

[Lavrentis]

But don't you think it is a bit ridiculous to pretend there is no difference to southern Italians but a large difference to Bulgaria? Which is exactly what people on here do. People from the north and most of the mainland just do not look like southern Italians.

The difference with Bulgaria is that they look Balkan. Greeks are predominantly Meds. It's not like Bulgarians are Gorids and Baltids on average.

[Sikeliot]

The difference with Bulgaria is that they look Balkan. Greeks are predominantly Meds. It's not like Bulgarians are Gorids and Baltids on average.

Greeks look Balkan when compared to southern Italians, and do not look the same "type" of Med as an average Sicilian or Calabrese.

[nafz]

But don't you think it is a bit ridiculous to pretend there is no difference to southern Italians but a large difference to Bulgaria? Which is exactly what people on here do. People from the north and most of the mainland just do not look like southern Italians.

Personally I see differences with both Southern Italians and Bulgarians. But if you were to ask me to whom Greeks resemble more, then yes I would say south Italians. I am speaking about averages and rough terms here ofcourse.

[Lavrentis]

This is from a professional study, and the Greek sample is closer to Bulgaria (minus 2 outliers). Would you rather I start saying southern Italians have Levantine influence to explain the difference to Greeks?

https://images.nature.com/full/nature-assets/nature/journal/v513/n7518/images/nature13673-f2.jpg

Am I reading this wrong or is the Tuscan sample more southern shifted than the Greek?

[Sikeliot]

Personally I see differences with both Southern Italians and Bulgarians. But if you were to ask me to whom Greeks resemble more, then yes I would say south Italians. I am speaking about averages and rough terms here ofcourse.

To me, the difference is larger to Calabria/Sicily than to Bulgaria, but is minimized when compared to Apulia.

Then what difference do you see to southern Italians? Put it in words I apparently understand.. "Slavic influence," "Levantine influence," "eastern," "western," "Balkan" etc. Not just these have bigger eyes and those have lighter hair.

[Sikeliot]

Am I reading this wrong or is the Tuscan sample more southern shifted than the Greek?

On a north/south axis they are the same, but the Tuscans shift toward Sardinia and the Greeks toward NE Europe.

The Sicilians are no closer to Greeks than they are to Moroccan and Tunisian Jews.

[Lavrentis]

Greeks look Balkan when compared to southern Italians

The difference is not as big as the difference with Bulgarians. Greeks have assimilated Balkanites, mostly Albanians and that contributed to the 'Balkan' types. Originally, Greeks have a Sardinian/Med type of DNA, exactly like south Italians.

[Sikeliot]

The difference is not as big as the difference with Bulgarians. Greeks have assimilated Balkanites, mostly Albanians and that contributed to the 'Balkan' types. Originally, Greeks have a Sardinian/Med type of DNA, exactly like south Italians.

Yes, it is. The facial structure of many Greeks is entirely "off" with the square heads, flat back of head, far-spaced eyes.

Southern Italians have other influences, also.

[nafz]

To me, the difference is larger to Calabria/Sicily than to Bulgaria, but is minimized when compared to Apulia.

Then what difference do you see to southern Italians? Put it in words I apparently understand.. "Slavic influence," "Levantine influence," "eastern," "western," "Balkan" etc. Not just these have bigger eyes and those have lighter hair.

Greeks may have a slightly increased Slavic/Balkan influence and southerns Italians may have a slightly increased levantive influence but I am not sure about that. There I said it. But these influences are minuscule. It's not like night/day differences.

[Lavrentis]

On a north/south axis they are the same, but the Tuscans shift toward Sardinia and the Greeks toward NE Europe.

And like 1/3 of Greek 'dots' shif towards Turkey, meaning Eastern, but not Eastern European and those are probably Anatolian Greeks. That's why I don't trust these maps.

[Sikeliot]

Greeks may have a slightly increased Slavic/Balkan influence and southerns Italians may have a slightly increased levantive influence but I am not sure about that. There I said it. But these influences are minuscule. It's not like night/day differences.

So you think those differences contribute only to a minority of phenotypes and otherwise they are interchangeable.

[Aenar]

Both women look Slavic, second women look Polish.

[Sikeliot]

And like 1/3 of Greek 'dots' shif towards Turkey, meaning Eastern, but not Eastern European and those are probably Anatolian Greeks. That's why I don't trust these maps.

The one right above the Sicilians is a Cretan. I have no idea about the extreme outlier. But the other Greeks are closer to Albania and Bulgaria.

[Lavrentis]

Tuscans are certainly more homogeneous than whatever there is in northern and central Greece with all the Arvanite and Anatolian migrations. Greece cannnot be represented correctly in these maps imo.

[Lavrentis]

If they included only Peloponnesians you'd see a big difference. Greece is not like Italy, the Greek nation was built in a complete different basis. The biggest difference is:

1) Foreign elements in Italy are mostly ancient.

2) Foreign elements in Greece are mostly recent.

[Sikeliot]

Tuscans are certainly more homogeneous than whatever there is in northern and central Greece with all the Arvanite and Anatolian migrations. Greece cannnot be represented correctly in these maps imo.

Shouldn't it just be a gradient from Bulgaria to Sicily with the islanders closer to the latter and the mainlanders to the former.

[Sikeliot]

If they included only Peloponnesians you'd see a big difference. Greece is not like Italy, the Greek nation was built in a complete different basis. The biggest difference is:

1) Foreign elements in Italy are mostly ancient.

Such as?

Peloponnesians would, for what it is worth, be closer to Abruzzese.

[nafz]

So you think those differences contribute only to a minority of phenotypes and otherwise they are interchangeable.

There are other differences too. I think that some South Italians have some minor N/NW European input which Greeks may have too but to a lesser extent.
I think Apulians are the closest to Greeks overall in terms of phenotypes.

[Sikeliot]

I think Apulians are the closest to Greeks overall in terms of phenotypes.

This might be the only thing we really agree on.

Let me ask this; which region of southern Italy, do you think, is there the most blatant Levantine influence that stands out from Greece?

Some people say it is Calabria, not Sicily.

[Lavrentis]

Such as?

Peloponnesians would, for what it is worth, be closer to Abruzzese.

In my opinion, the exotic south Italians were there since Roman times.

In Greece, most of the time the exotic people are of Anatolian ancestry. There's a difference here. Same in Crete tbh, most of the exotic people here look Armenian rather than Levantine (as opposed to Sicily). And Armenian familes were settled here during the Middle Ages. Also the Albanian elements in Greece arrived here in the Middle Ages, the Arvanites. So that's the big difference between foreign elements in Greece and Italy.

[nafz]

This might be the only thing we really agree on.

Let me ask this; which region of southern Italy, do you think, is there the most blatant Levantine influence that stands out from Greece?

Some people say it is Calabria, not Sicily.

I really cannot answer that. I have been to Italy but not Sicily or Calabria.
However the people form Sicily and Calabria I have met looked mostly like Gracile Meds. Not the levantine/Lebanese looking persons we see posted all the time.

[Sikeliot]

In my opinion, the exotic south Italians were there since Roman times.

In Greece, most of the time the exotic people are of Anatolian ancestry. There's a difference here. Same in Crete tbh, most of the exotic people here look Armenian rather than Levantine (as opposed to Sicily). And Armenian familes were settled here during the Middle Ages. Also the Albanian elements in Greece arrived here in the Middle Ages, the Arvanites. So that's the big difference between foreign elements in Greece and Italy.

The difference is that the Levantine influences in Sicily occurred rapidly and then stopped, over a course of less than 1000 years. Around 6000 BC, Sicilians were entirely WHG type people (I saw this in a study) and identical to the rest of Western Europe. Aside from early Italic and Greek input, most of the other influences up to around 1100 AD were from the Levant, but there has been almost no foreign input into Sicily since (and Norman input was low).

[Sikeliot]

I really cannot answer that. I have been to Italy but not Sicily or Calabria.
However the people form Sicily and Calabria I have met looked mostly like Gracile Meds. Not the levantine/Lebanese looking persons we see posted all the time.

Well, you can look through this yourself and come to your own conclusion: https://www.facebook.com/pg/PINKCODEPALERMO/photos/?ref=page_internal

What phenotypes do you think Aegean islanders mostly have?

[Aenar]

In my opinion, the exotic south Italians were there since Roman times.

In Greece, most of the time the exotic people are of Anatolian ancestry. There's a difference here. Same in Crete tbh, most of the exotic people here look Armenian rather than Levantine (as opposed to Sicily). And Armenian familes were settled here during the Middle Ages. Also the Albanian elements in Greece arrived here in the Middle Ages, the Arvanites. So that's the big difference between foreign elements in Greece and Italy.

Except Armenians, Arvanites and Anatolians, don't forget about Slavic and Vlach element in Greece.

[Sikeliot]

Except Armenians, Arvanites and Anatolians, don't forget about Slavic and Vlach element in Greece.

No one wants to recognize those.

[nafz]

Well, you can look through this yourself and come to your own conclusion: https://www.facebook.com/pg/PINKCODEPALERMO/photos/?ref=page_internal

What phenotypes do you think Aegean islanders mostly have?

Going to have a look and I'll get back to you at a later time

[Lavrentis]

Except Armenians, Arvanites and Anatolians, don't forget about Slavic and Vlach element in Greece.

The Slavic element in Greece is mostly in some parts of northern Greeks like Florina. Also, there are two types of Vlachs in Greece:

1) Those who are simply Latinized Greeks from the Roman times.

2) And those who arrived here during Medieval migrations. These Vlachs were mostly in Macedonia.

[Aenar]

No one wants to recognize those.

For some reason Slavic and Vlach (especially Slavic) influence is taboo among Greeks.

[Sikeliot]

Going to have a look and I'll get back to you at a later time

When you do, post the thoughts in this thread or quote me or something.

[Aenar]

The Slavic element in Greece is mostly in some parts of northern Greeks like Florina. Also, there are two types of Vlachs in Greece:

1) Those who are simply Latinized Greeks.

2) And those who arrived here during Medieval migrations. These Vlachs were mostly in Macedonia.

There is a 2 or 3 Vlach group in Greece, some are latinized Greeks and some are not.
What about Aromanians, whether they latinized Greeks or they came from eastern Balkans during the Middle Age? There is few theories about their origin.

[Lavrentis]

No one wants to recognize those.

I recognize them but not to the extend of saying that most mainland Greece is influenced by them.

Greece's first king was Bavarian and he brough Bavarian settlers here. One neighborhood in Athens was entirely Bavarian. Should I start saying that a good number of Athenians are of German descent?

[Sikeliot]

For some reason Slavic and Vlach (especially Slavic) influence is taboo among Greeks.

Yes, now we have to pretend Italians have it too :lol:

[Lavrentis]

For some reason Slavic and Vlach (especially Slavic) influence is taboo among Greeks.

It's not a tabboo, because it is insignificant.

[Bobby Martnen]

You are trying to prove southern Italians look more North(east) Euro than Greeks do. Again, good luck proving that.

Sicilians have more Northwest Euro than Greeks, but it is less than the amount of Northeast Euro that Greeks have.

[Sikeliot]

Sicilians have more Northwest Euro than Greeks, but it is less than the amount of Northeast Euro that Greeks have.

Correct.

[Kouros]

For some reason Slavic and Vlach (especially Slavic) influence is taboo among Greeks.

No it's not, Dema. It's isolated to mostly Macedonia and no one seriously gives a shit. It's just Germans, Fallemeyer-idiots, Albanians, and Sikeliot that like to blow it out of proportion.

[Sikeliot]

No it's not, Dema. It's isolated to mostly Macedonia and no one seriously gives a shit. It's just Germans, Fallemeyer-idiots, Albanians, and Sikeliot that like to blow it out of proportion.

Wouldn't Epirus, Thessaly and Thrace have it too?

[Rumata]

They both pass in Russia. I'm not sure if the first one looks particularly Slavic.

[Sikeliot]

They both pass in Russia. I'm not sure if the first one looks particularly Slavic.

She looks like JK Rowling to me.

[NSXD60]

Only the first woman looks Slav

[Kouros]

Wouldn't Epirus, Thessaly and Thrace have it too?

Idk. I don't think there was ever a significant population of vlachs outside of Macedonia. Thrace is full of different ethnic minorities I hear. Maybe I have to read more. Difference between Greece and other countries in archaic times and during middle ages is that we recorded everything. If other countries copied down even half the things the Eastern Romans and Greeks wrote, it would fuel 'x have y ancestry' threads for centuries.

Dema freaked out on a couple Albanians in a Y-DNA project thread and got banned. Reason? Because they told him his haplogroup was not Balkan or Albanian in origin - possibly Slavic or Levantine. You can start to see why someone like this would enjoy saying shit in threads like these.

I took his side but who cares, I think Guitar Master banned him on a past offence out of spite, which is unfair.

[Austrvegr]

I made that exact comparison. She looks English or Irish, not Slavic.

She's not the most typical Russian face, but such faces occur among Russians and are perceived as native.

She reminds me of the Russian actress Olga Prokofieva.

http://mariannademartino.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/LorettadeFalco1.jpg

http://www.kino-teatr.ru/acter/album/3500/160367.jpg

[Sarmatian]

Both could pass as Slavic but only the first one as Russian.

[Sarmatian]

I made that exact comparison. She looks English or Irish, not Slavic.

It may come as surprise to you but North Pontid and Atlantid types are quite often undistinguishable from each other. The differences between certain types of Brits and Russians are negligible and only manifested in manners.

[Antimage]

Second one looks like Xena.

[Antimage]

http://mariannademartino.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/LorettadeFalco1.jpg


Russian wouldn't be my first guess.

[Mikula]

http://mariannademartino.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/LorettadeFalco1.jpg


Both can pass, The 1st one reminds me Monika Brindzáková, Czech TV presenter
http://img.ceskatelevize.cz/program/porady/11127706028/foto09/brindzakova_02.jpg

[glass]

First one can pass as atypical, though i would not guess her russian in first 5 attempts at least. Second one is absolutely foreign. She does not pass anywhere east to Poland

[Lavrentis]

Russian wouldn't be my first guess.

What would be your first guess?


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[Lavrentis]

First one can pass as atypical, though i would not guess her russian in first 5 attempts at least. Second one is absolutely foreign. She does not pass anywhere east to Poland

So the second can pass in Poland, but not in Russia?


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[Lavrentis]

No it's not, Dema. It's isolated to mostly Macedonia and no one seriously gives a shit. It's just Germans, Fallemeyer-idiots, Albanians, and Sikeliot that like to blow it out of proportion.

Where the hell have you seen a German claim that Greeks are Slavicized?


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[glass]

So the second can pass in Poland, but not in Russia?


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Perhaps, but she can not be russian, nor even ukrainian imo