4 Anatolian Greeks gedmatch results

[Hudayar]

Greek from Niğde (Central Anatolia)

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.19
2 European_Early_Farmers 17.39
3 Near_East 13.63
4 South_Central_Asian 11.23
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 6.68
6 North_African 4.52
7 South_East_Asian 1.02
8 Ancestral_Altaic 0.79
9 South_Indian 0.72
10 East_Siberian 0.5
11 Paleo_Siberian 0.33

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cretan ( ) 5.93
2 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 5.99
3 Cypriot ( ) 6.49
4 Azov_Greek ( ) 7.15
5 Syrian_Jew ( ) 8.03
6 Greek_Islands ( ) 8.05
7 Greek ( ) 8.41
8 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 8.43
9 Greek_Athens ( ) 9.11
10 Italian_South ( ) 9.46
11 Turk_Kayseri ( ) 9.78
12 Turk_Istanbul ( ) 9.81
13 Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) 10.19
14 Lebanese_Muslim ( ) 10.42
15 Greek_Phokaia ( ) 10.53
16 Turk ( ) 10.54
17 Romanian_Jew ( ) 10.56
18 Turk_Balikesir ( ) 11.14
19 Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) 11.3
20 Central_Greek ( ) 11.54

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.1% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 26.9% Iranian_Jew ( ) @ 1.7
2 51.9% Italian_South ( ) + 48.1% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) @ 1.77
3 73.9% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 26.1% Kurd_Jew ( ) @ 1.83
4 55.7% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) + 44.3% Sicilian_Center ( ) @ 1.84
5 67.3% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 32.7% Georgian_Jew ( ) @ 1.85
6 73.5% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 26.5% Iraqi_Mandean ( ) @ 1.86
7 67% Greek_Islands ( ) + 33% Iraqi_Mandean ( ) @ 1.95
8 73% Cretan ( ) + 27% Jew_Tat ( ) @ 1.95
9 51.6% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) + 48.4% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 1.99
10 59.9% Greek_Islands ( ) + 40.1% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 2
11 77.8% Cretan ( ) + 22.2% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) @ 2.04
12 55.8% Italian_South ( ) + 44.2% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 2.04
13 57.1% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 42.9% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) @ 2.07
14 52.9% Greek_Athens ( ) + 47.1% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) @ 2.09
15 78.9% Cretan ( ) + 21.1% Armenian_Yerevan ( ) @ 2.12
16 51.5% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 48.5% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) @ 2.16
17 67.5% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 32.5% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 2.16
18 78.1% Cretan ( ) + 21.9% Armenian ( ) @ 2.2
19 64.1% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 35.9% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) @ 2.21
20 55.3% Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) + 44.7% Armenian_Yerevan ( ) @ 2.22
• Greek from Kayseri, Eastern Central Anatolia
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 48.6
2 European_Early_Farmers 16.45
3 South_Central_Asian 15.63
4 Near_East 11.88
5 North_African 3.5
6 European_Hunters_Gatherers 2.14
7 East_Siberian 0.88
8 Archaic_Human 0.28
9 Tungus-Altaic 0.27
10 Ancestral_Altaic 0.21
11 Melano_Polynesian 0.17

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cypriot ( ) 10.64
2 Azov_Greek ( ) 10.67
3 Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) 11.1
4 Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) 11.15
5 Armenian ( ) 11.28
6 Jew_Tat ( ) 11.87
7 Turk_Kayseri ( ) 11.88
8 Lebanese_Druze ( ) 12.06
9 Georgian_Jew ( ) 12.59
10 Assyrian_Arzni ( ) 12.69
11 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 12.97
12 Armenian_Yerevan ( ) 13.01
13 Iraqi_Jew ( ) 13.01
14 Greek_Islands ( ) 13.26
15 Turk ( ) 13.57
16 Lebanese_Christian ( ) 14.03
17 Turk_Istanbul ( ) 14.14
18 Druze ( ) 14.32
19 Christian_Arabs_Israel ( ) 14.47
20 Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) 15.06

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.4% Armenian ( ) + 12.6% Sardinian ( ) @ 2.29
2 85.8% Armenian_Yerevan ( ) + 14.2% Sardinian ( ) @ 3.08
3 53.7% Armenian ( ) + 46.3% Greek_Smyrna ( ) @ 3.17
4 73.1% Armenian ( ) + 26.9% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 3.58
5 63.9% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 36.1% Kakheti ( ) @ 3.66
6 75.9% Armenian ( ) + 24.1% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 3.75
7 77.4% Armenian ( ) + 22.6% Italian_Piedmont ( ) @ 3.8
8 54.5% Armenian ( ) + 45.5% Greek_Islands ( ) @ 3.89
9 50.1% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 49.9% Armenian_Yerevan ( ) @ 3.92
10 80.5% Armenian ( ) + 19.5% Italian_Bergamo ( ) @ 3.93
11 86.4% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) + 13.6% Sardinian ( ) @ 4.05
12 67% Armenian ( ) + 33% Sicilian_East ( ) @ 4.09
13 69.9% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 30.1% Georgian ( ) @ 4.12
14 90.3% Armenian ( ) + 9.7% Basque_Spanish ( ) @ 4.2
15 90.5% Armenian ( ) + 9.5% Basque_French ( ) @ 4.27
16 69.4% Armenian ( ) + 30.6% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) @ 4.28
17 65.7% Armenian ( ) + 34.3% Sicilian_Center ( ) @ 4.31
18 68.6% Armenian ( ) + 31.4% French_Jew ( ) @ 4.32
19 83.5% Armenian ( ) + 16.5% Spanish_Baleares_IBS ( ) @ 4.32
20 86.3% Armenian ( ) + 13.7% Spanish_Valencia_IBS ( ) @ 4.33

• Greek from Central Anatolia (Eskişehir Konya Kayseri mixed) (1/4 Eskişehir, 1/4 Konya, 1/2 Kayseri)
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 46.18
2 European_Early_Farmers 15.02
3 Near_East 14.13
4 South_Central_Asian 10.57
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 6.37
6 North_African 3.51
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.39
8 East_Siberian 0.82
9 Arctic 0.59
10 Australoid 0.56
11 Amerindian 0.3
12 Paleo_Siberian 0.2
13 African_Pygmy 0.19
14 Subsaharian 0.15
15 Melano_Polynesian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cypriot ( ) 5.69
2 Azov_Greek ( ) 7.14
3 Lebanese_Druze ( ) 7.98
4 Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) 8.4
5 Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) 9.39
6 Greek_Islands ( ) 9.66
7 Lebanese_Christian ( ) 9.68
8 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 9.72
9 Turk_Kayseri ( ) 10.08
10 Iraqi_Jew ( ) 10.57
11 Georgian_Jew ( ) 10.63
12 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 10.71
13 Cretan ( ) 10.8
14 Turk_Istanbul ( ) 11.06
15 Turk ( ) 11.09
16 Lebanese_Muslim ( ) 11.31
17 Greek ( ) 11.55
18 Christian_Arabs_Israel ( ) 11.6
19 Jew_Tat ( ) 11.73
20 Druze ( ) 11.89

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55% Greek_Islands ( ) + 45% Jew_Tat ( ) @ 1.76
2 79% Cypriot ( ) + 21% Kabardin ( ) @ 1.83
3 80.7% Cypriot ( ) + 19.3% Chechen ( ) @ 1.87
4 78.4% Cypriot ( ) + 21.6% Kumyk ( ) @ 1.91
5 76.3% Cypriot ( ) + 23.7% Cirkassian ( ) @ 2.18
6 80.6% Cypriot ( ) + 19.4% Adygei ( ) @ 2.2
7 52.3% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) + 47.7% Sicilian_Center ( ) @ 2.25
8 56.3% Greek ( ) + 43.7% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) @ 2.29
9 52.8% Greek_Phokaia ( ) + 47.2% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) @ 2.33
10 60.7% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 39.3% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) @ 2.39
11 81.8% Cypriot ( ) + 18.2% Azeri_Dagestan ( ) @ 2.41
12 81.1% Cypriot ( ) + 18.9% Balkar ( ) @ 2.42
13 83.5% Cypriot ( ) + 16.5% Lezgin ( ) @ 2.43
14 59.9% Cretan ( ) + 40.1% Armenian_Yerevan ( ) @ 2.43
15 84% Cypriot ( ) + 16% Avar ( ) @ 2.47
16 58.1% Cretan ( ) + 41.9% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) @ 2.49
17 81.8% Cypriot ( ) + 18.2% North_Ossetian ( ) @ 2.49
18 82.7% Cypriot ( ) + 17.3% Ossetian ( ) @ 2.52
19 50.5% Armenian_Yerevan ( ) + 49.5% Sicilian_Center ( ) @ 2.56
20 55.3% Greek_Athens ( ) + 44.7% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) @ 2.56




Pontic Greek
# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 40.42
2 East_Med 34.45
3 West_Med 9.43
4 Atlantic 5.41
5 Red_Sea 5.13
6 Eastern_Euro 2.46
7 North_Sea 2.4
8 Southeast_Asian 0.17
9 Baltic 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Armenian 5.21
2 Georgian_Jewish 7.04
3 Assyrian 10.8
4 Kurdish 11.72
5 Turkish 12.53
6 Azeri 13.29
7 Iranian 14.6
8 Kurdish_Jewish 15.37
9 Iranian_Jewish 15.81
10 Lebanese_Muslim 17.44
11 Georgian 18.13
12 Kumyk 19.71
13 Cyprian 19.84
14 Syrian 20
15 Abhkasian 21.1
16 Adygei 21.8
17 Lebanese_Christian 21.85
18 Lebanese_Druze 22.98
19 Ossetian 23.14
20 Balkar 23.54

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.9% Abhkasian + 49.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.44
2 89.3% Armenian + 10.7% Abhkasian @ 4.59
3 87.8% Armenian + 12.2% Georgian @ 4.61
4 52.2% Abhkasian + 47.8% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.75
5 54.9% Georgian + 45.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.75
6 93.2% Armenian + 6.8% North_Ossetian @ 4.9
7 92.8% Armenian + 7.2% Ossetian @ 4.91
8 92.6% Armenian + 7.4% Adygei @ 4.93
9 93.8% Armenian + 6.2% Balkar @ 4.99
10 94.3% Armenian + 5.7% Kabardin @ 5.02
11 56.3% Georgian + 43.7% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.07
12 95.7% Armenian + 4.3% Chechen @ 5.08
13 80.9% Georgian_Jewish + 19.1% Abhkasian @ 5.1
14 78.3% Georgian_Jewish + 21.7% Georgian @ 5.14
15 96.6% Armenian + 3.4% Kumyk @ 5.17
16 97.4% Armenian + 2.6% Lezgin @ 5.17
17 99.2% Armenian + 0.8% French_Basque @ 5.19
18 99.1% Armenian + 0.9% Tabassaran @ 5.21
19 100% Armenian + 0% Spanish_Aragon @ 5.21
20 100% Armenian + 0% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 5.21


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 54.29
2 South_Central_Asian 15.82
3 Near_East 11.96
4 European_Early_Farmers 10.26
5 Austronesian 2.03
6 North_African 1.71
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.67


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Armenian_ @ 5.254725
2 Armenian_Yerevan_ @ 5.952851
3 Assyrian_Arzni_ @ 6.971419
4 Turk_Trabzon_ @ 7.890087
5 Jew_Tat_ @ 9.691676
6 Kakheti_ @ 11.246184
7 Assyrian_Iraqi_ @ 11.999396
8 Turk_Kayseri_ @ 12.579285
9 Georgian_Jew_ @ 12.826561
10 Iraqi_Jew_ @ 13.343711
11 Druze_ @ 13.451194
12 Lebanese_Druze_ @ 13.685290
13 Uzbekistani_Jew_ @ 14.398694
14 Iranian_Jew_ @ 14.559340
15 Turk_ @ 14.704284
16 Iraqi_Chaldean_ @ 14.865918
17 Georgian_ @ 15.073127
18 Kurd_Jew_ @ 15.219669
19 Adjara_ @ 15.334502
20 Turk_Adana_ @ 15.678058

[Hudayar]

Stolen from
http://www.anthrogenica.com/archive/index.php/t-10595.html

[wvwvw]

These are Pontian results of unknown persons, many of which include people with partially Greek ancestry who now consider them Turks, have married with Turks due to Islamization etc.

The vast majority of Pontians have ancestry from North-East Caucasus, the Asia Minor Greeks from Western Turkey. It is very rare for someone Greek to have ancestry from Central Anatolia and whenever they do they are called Pontians.

[Hudayar]

These are Pontian results of unknown persons, many of which include people with partially Greek ancestry who now consider them Turks, have married with Turks due to Islamization etc.

The vast majority of Pontians have ancestry from North-East Caucasus, the Asia Minor Greeks from Western Turkey. It is very rare for someone Greek to have ancestry from Central Anatolia and these people are called Pontians.

Since when Central Anatolia became part of Pontus

they're Greeks from Central Anatolia.

[Hudayar]

1- 1.52% mongoloid
2- 1.15% mongoloid
3- 1.91% mongoloid

they're free of Turkish influence

[Kouros]

These are Pontian results of unknown persons, many of which include people with partially Greek ancestry who now consider them Turks, have married with Turks due to Islamization etc.

The vast majority of Pontians have ancestry from North-East Caucasus, the Asia Minor Greeks from Western Turkey. It is very rare for someone Greek to have ancestry from Central Anatolia and whenever they do they are called Pontians.

Obviously they're not going to be 100% Greek. There scores are kind of what I expect anyway.

[catgeorge]

Caucasian + Levantine + Greek mix is Central Anatolian.

Basically Greek culture won out with these people they are not actually Greek-Greek.

[Hudayar]

Caucasian + Levantine + Greek mix is Central Anatolian.

Basically Greek culture won out with these people they are not actually Greek-Greek.

There was no migration from Levantine to Anatolia. Levantine is probably Native Anatolian. Caucasian probably does not directly come from Armenians (except for Kayseri sample) but from Anatolians.

[wvwvw]

Since when Central Anatolia became part of Pontus

they're Greeks from Central Anatolia.
The correct name of Greeks from that region is PONTIANS not "Anatolians". Look up Capadocian Pontus.

There is no such thing as Anatolian Greek. There never was. The Asia Minor Greeks were never called Anatolians and that term (Asia Minor Greek) is used to denote someone from the region that is now West Turkey.

Pontians were never called Asia Minor Greeks, nor did any Pontian from "Central Turkey".

[Kouros]

1- 1.52% mongoloid
2- 1.15% mongoloid
3- 1.91% mongoloid

they're free of Turkish influence

I mean that's kind of obvious.

[wvwvw]

1- 1.52% mongoloid
2- 1.15% mongoloid
3- 1.91% mongoloid

they're free of Turkish influence

The fact that the majority of Turks have mongoloid admix doesn't negate the fact that there are plenty of Turks as well as Kurds, with no mongoloid influence who might have Armenian, Syrian, North African and other origins. Turks are a mongrel ethnicity.

[Hudayar]

btw added a Pontic Greek

[Hudayar]

The fact that the majority of Turks have mongoloid admix doesn't negate the fact that there are plenty of Turks as well as Kurds, with no mongoloid influence who might have Armenian, Syrian, North African and other origins. Turks are a mongrel ethnicity.

are you a troll

[Bobby Martnen]

The first one is closest to mainland Greeks

[catgeorge]

The first one is closest to mainland Greeks

If Greek Thessaly , South Greek and Central Greek all don't poll in top 10 on GEDmatch I struggle to find any similarities

This is a typical Greek result

1 Greek_Thessaly 5.17
2 Central_Greek 6.11
3 Greek_Macedonia 6.44
4 South_Greek 7.62
5 West_Sicilian 9.15
6 Italian_Abruzzo 9.18
7 South_Italian 9.82
8 Tuscan 12.67
9 Cretan 12.97
10. Romanian 13.75

Last three is replaceable with Albania, Cyprus, Central Italy and Bulgaria

[Teucer]

The first three have Cypriot coming up as one of the closest populations. Are Cypriots actually Anatolian rather than Levantine?

[Böri]

Pontic Greeks always have 1 Armenians, 2 Georgians, 3 Assyrians. The theory they descend from Xenophon and Alexander sinks. They are more from Mithridates.

Central Anatolian Greeks might have 1-2% Siberian and N. East Asian that's normal. You must not forget the Turkic Christian mercenarios of Byzantines (Turcopoles, Pechenegs etc).

[wvwvw]

Pontic Greeks always have 1 Armenians, 2 Georgians, 3 Assyrians. The theory they descend from Xenophon and Alexander sinks. They are more from Mithridates.

Central Anatolian Greeks might have 1-2% Siberian and N. East Asian that's normal. You must not forget the Turkic Christian mercenarios of Byzantines (Turcopoles, Pechenegs etc).

No they don't.

The vast majority of Pontians live outside Greece, some as far as Uzbekistan. Many are Muslims or Pontians in name only, assimilated into various countries and many are only partially Pontians and don't speak Greek.

It is questionable the random people you post as Pontians are really Pontians or have any relation to Greek Pontians in Greece.

[Norka]

are you a troll

He has a point that you wish was not true.

[Sikeliot]

These people are culturally, but not genetically, Greek.

[Fedora]

No they don't.

The vast majority of Pontians live outside Greece, some as far as Uzbekistan. Many are Muslims or Pontians in name only, assimilated into various countries and many are only partially Pontians and don't speak Greek.

It is questionable the random people you post as Pontians are really Pontians or have any relation to Greek Pontians in Greece.
There are people in Turkey which still speak Romeyka and their results are just like that. Pontians score like that.

There is a genetic continuum from northern greeks to the island and central anatolia according to the results. The central anatolian greeks have native ancestry from the region which makes them different from mainlanders

[Hudayar]

He has a point that you wish was not true.

"he"
you don't even know about who you're actually talking about lmao

[DarknessWin]

Only the first 1 can claim Greek roots ,
the others are almost 0% Greeks

Especially the Pontian is pure Armenian

[Teucer]

Only the first 1 can claim Greek roots ,
the others are almost 0% Greeks

Especially the Pontian is pure Armenian

Are island Greeks not Greek enough? They all score some similarity to them.

[DarknessWin]

Are island Greeks not Greek enough? They all score some similarity to them.

Of course , especially Cypriots .
Cyprus was half Greek colony and half Phoenician colony
with native Hittite population at that time

So i believe the real Greeks in Cyprus are around 20-30%
with many Phoenician and Armenian shifted people (i recognize them just by their phenotype)
Armenoids,Anatolids and Orientalids

The greek types are Pontids,Dinaromeds,AlpineMeds

[Tauromachos]

There are people in Turkey which still speak Romeyka and their results are just like that. Pontians score like that.

There is a genetic continuum from northern greeks to the island and central anatolia according to the results. The central anatolian greeks have native ancestry from the region which makes them different from mainlanders

The Greek parts of their ancestry make them different from proper Anatolians
as well

[Teucer]

Of course , especially Cypriots .
Cyprus was half Greek colony and half Phoenician colony
with native Hittite population at that time

So i believe the real Greeks in Cyprus are around 20-30%
with many Phoenician and Armenian shifted people (i recognize them just by their phenotype)
Armenoids,Anatolids and Orientalids

The greek types are Pontids,Dinaromeds,AlpineMeds

I'm amazed at how similar Anatolian Greeks are to Cypriots. Should they even be considered Levantine when Cypriots clearly have an affinity toward Asia Minor?

[DarknessWin]

I'm amazed at how similar Anatolian Greeks are to Cypriots. Should they even be considered Levantine when Cypriots clearly have an affinity toward Asia Minor?

Both of them have roots from ancient Hittites , thats why

Actually not Levantine but pure Asia Minor , are closer to Lebanese in MENA countries
and Armenians in caucasus.
And the Greek phenotypes close to mainland Greece

[Norka]

"he"
you don't even know about who you're actually talking about lmao

Does the gender of the person matter? You are changing the topic let's talk about you and your identity crysis not someone else. He/she brought up a good point to which your only response was to call them a troll.

[Hudayar]

Does the gender of the person matter? You are changing the topic let's talk about you and your identity crysis not someone else. He/she brought up a good point to which your only response was to call them a troll.

Are you still talking?
And yes it matters if you're talking about the person and his topic. If i were talking about Einstein and said "She actually wasn't that smart" what would i look like? probably like a dumbass. That's what you look like now


Oh and about the "topic", i already posted a lot of stuff about Turkish genetics including GEDmatch results, papers, pics etc and will continue posting. However, i do not want to derail the thread.

[Fedora]

Do you have any Karamanli results?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t690SNdXick

[Norka]

Are you still talking?
And yes it matters if you're talking about the person and his topic. If i were talking about Einstein and said "She actually wasn't that smart" what would i look like? probably like a dumbass. That's what you look like now


Oh and about the "topic", i already posted a lot of stuff about Turkish genetics including GEDmatch results, papers, pics etc and will continue posting. However, i do not want to derail the thread.

You are such a pussy you keep changing the topic I brought up. I guess I was right you are just another son of pig who is in identity crysis. " oh I will not derail the thread" grow some balls faggot and back yourself up instead of responding to me while wet between the legs.

[Kouros]

Don't Pontians usually score the same as islanders? Make sense since the colonists were Ionian in origin.

[Lavrentis]

These people are culturally, but not genetically, Greek.

Around half of them are not even culturally Greek. Especially those from northern Greece who live in their own communities, since when they entered Greece as refugees they were settled into abandoned areas.

[Lavrentis]

Do you have any Karamanli results?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t690SNdXick

The Karamanli people are literally christian Turks. They used to speak Turkish as a first language.

[Lavrentis]

Are island Greeks not Greek enough? They all score some similarity to them.

Don't island Greeks score close to south Italians?

[Babak]

I believe these are native anatolians bro, not necessarily greek. They have too much caucasian.

[Manuel]

Around half of them are not even culturally Greek. Especially those from northern Greece who live in their own communities, since when they entered Greece as refugees they were settled into abandoned areas.

Who are you talking about?

[Lavrentis]

Who are you talking about?

Anatolian Greeks

[Manuel]

Anatolian Greeks

Yeah but which groups are isolated and live in their own communities???

[Lavrentis]

Yeah but which groups are isolated and live in their own communities???

Those who were settled in deserted villages. These villages used to be inhabited by Bulgarians but they were expelled after the Balkan wars.

[JMack]

Don't island Greeks score close to south Italians?

Depends on which Southern Italians. People from Puglia and Abruzzo score closer to Mainland Greece average and people from Sicily and Calabria are similar to Cretans.

[Lavrentis]

Depends on which Southern Italians. People from Puglia and Abruzzo score closer to Mainland Greece average and people from Sicily and Calabria are similar to Cretans.

So you think that Calabrese differ from other south Italians, like Sikeliot says?

[JMack]

So you think that Calabrese differ from other south Italians, like Sikeliot says?

People from Reggio Calabria are different genetically from people in other parts of Calabria, but the difference is small. They are the closest population to Cretans in continental Italy. Abruzzese and Pugliese are closer to mainlanders and the others in between.

Sikeliot never posts false or dishonest results. I just disagree about his interpretations.

[Lavrentis]

People from Reggio Calabria are different genetically from people in other parts of Calabria, but the difference is small. They are the closest population to Cretans in continental Italy.

What's the difference with Reggio Calabria with the rest of Calabria? And which side is the closest to Cretans?

[JMack]

What's the difference with Reggio Calabria with the rest of Calabria? And which side is the closest to Cretans?

The northern you go in Calabria the closest you get to the average of Campania and other 'in between' regions. So Reggio is closer to Cretans.

[Sikeliot]

Depends on which Southern Italians. People from Puglia and Abruzzo score closer to Mainland Greece average and people from Sicily and Calabria are similar to Cretans.

It tends to be in my opinion that southern Campania, Calabrese (especially Reggio Calabria and Catanzaro) and the Messina/Catania/eastern Palermo area are close to Dodecanese and Cretans, while southeast Sicilians/Apulians/Abruzzese are more like southern Peloponnesians due to higher Greek input, and western Sicilians are more similar to Ashkenazim and in some cases, Sephardim.

So there is a subset of southern Italians close to, if not identical to southern Aegean islanders, but not all of them -- others are like Peloponnesians, and others like western Jews.

What I think is Apulia and southeast Sicily are the purest representatives of southern Italy before the extra MENA component arrived.

[Sikeliot]

People from Reggio Calabria are different genetically from people in other parts of Calabria, but the difference is small. They are the closest population to Cretans in continental Italy.

Yes, but I would go so far as to say the Reggio area are possibly closer to Dodecanese than to Cretans. The closest Italians in general to Cretans tend to be Messina/Catania/eastern Palermo. Enna is intermediate between this group and SE Sicily/Apulia.

[brennus dux gallorum]

How can someone be from Eastern anatolia and be Greek the same time, with the exception of Pontiac Greeks, the only who can claim Greek ancestry

[brennus dux gallorum]

These people are culturally, but not genetically, Greek.

Culturally Greeks? Not at all, only language and religion, no other aspect

[Sikeliot]

The northern you go in Calabria the closest you get to the average of Campania and other 'in between' regions. So Reggio is closer to Cretans.


Also if you go here, you see that these regions can be divided into the following groupings with respect to "exotic" admixture on Eurogenes K15. Calabria is more like Dodecanese, while Crete is more like the northeastern third of Sicily plus Palermo. Agrigento and Caltanissetta are closest to the other Greek island sets (North Aegean and Cyclades), while all remaining Sicilians seem to be intermediate between Peloponnesians and other Sicilians.

- Calabria/Dodecanese (54-56%)
- Northeast Sicily/Crete/Palermo (51-53%)
- North Aegean/Cyclades/Agrigento/Caltanissetta (49-51%)
- Trapani/Ragusa/Syracuse (45%)
- Peloponnese (42%)
- North Greece (37%)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?225323-For-South-Italy-and-Greece-Eurogenes-K15-sum-of-MENA-components-by-region

[Sikeliot]

Sikeliot never posts false or dishonest results. I just disagree about his interpretations.


What exactly do you disagree with?

[Sikeliot]

Are island Greeks not Greek enough? They all score some similarity to them.

No, they don't. None of the people posted on the first page are close to island Greek results, and I have posted plenty so there is no excuse for ignorance.

EDIT: This comment did not mean to be so harsh, I am sorry if it sounded rude. :( I just mean I spend so much time posting results that by now there should be no mysteries :lol:

[JMack]

What I think is Apulia and southeast Sicily are the purest representatives of southern Italy before the extra MENA component arrived.

What's your hypothesis for this extra MENA component?

Phoenicians and Jews? I think for Calabria it's the only possibility. For Crete, Sicily and Dodecanese there are maybe other and more recent possibilities.

I agree that some extra MENA in Southern Italians is recent, but we need to remember that beside a small Arab raid no land in peninsular Southern Italy have been occupied by Near Eastern peoples. There's no way to change significantly these populations if they didn't had some of these components to begin with.

[Teucer]

No, they don't. None of the people posted on the first page are close to island Greek results, and I have posted plenty so there is no excuse for ignorance.

But they all have island Greeks coming up at a max difference of 13, so there is affinity. You can't say they are not close to them when for 2 of them Greek Islands come up near the top of their matches.

[Sikeliot]

What's your hypothesis for this extra MENA component?

Phoenicians and Jews? I think for Calabria it's the only possibility. For Crete, Sicily and Dodecanese there are maybe other and more recent possibilities.

I agree that some extra MENA in Southern Italians is recent, but we need to remember that beside a small Arab raid no land in peninsular Southern Italy have been occupied by Near Eastern peoples. There's no way to change significantly these populations if they didn't had some of these components to begin with.

My impression is right after the Arab conquest, we would have seen this:

- Western Sicily would have been predominantly MENA genetically, both from Phoenician and Carthaginian leftovers and a lot of MENA immigration. It has since received some repopulation from the mainland and Norman input to make it as it is now.
- Southeast Sicily would have been more or less identical to pre-Slavic Peloponnesians, and have changed very little in the last 2000 years, I believe.
- Northeast Sicily would have received some MENA input but not like the west.

As Muslims were expelled from Sicily, many of them would have ended up in Calabria and converted to Christianity, and would never have ended up in southeast Sicily which was more or less shielded from any post-Neolithic West Asian input (they also have very little North African). The impact of this, plus Jews in Calabria, made Calabria how it is today, and you see remnants of the MENA input in northeast and west-central Sicily.

[Sikeliot]

But they all have island Greeks coming up at a max difference of 13, so there is affinity. You can't say they are not close to them when for 2 of them Greek Islands come up near the top of their matches.

Actual Greek islanders do not score like this, though... that reference population is faulty. This is someone from Kalymnos, one of the most southern Greek islands and I don't see it (or any Greek islander I've seen) scoring like the people in the first post:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.4
2 European_Early_Farmers 23.42
3 Near_East 11.23
4 South_Central_Asian 9.94
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 8.87
6 North_African 4.07
7 Ancestral_Altaic 2.64
8 Austronesian 1.28
9 Tungus-Altaic 0.49
10 Arctic 0.32
11 Melano_Polynesian 0.21
12 Paleo_Siberian 0.07
13 South_East_Asian 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 6.2
2 Sicilian_West ( ) 6.32
3 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 6.56
4 Greek_Northwest ( ) 6.67
5 French_Jew ( ) 6.73
6 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 6.79
7 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 6.81
8 Sicilian_East ( ) 6.82
9 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 7.43
10 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 7.88
11 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 7.94
12 Ashkenazi ( ) 8.01
13 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 8.05
14 Cretan ( ) 8.13
15 Turk_Jew ( ) 8.34
16 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 8.36
17 Italian_Jew ( ) 8.42
18 Kosovar ( ) 8.68
19 Central_Greek ( ) 8.71
20 Maltese ( ) 9.02

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.4% Italian_Piedmont ( ) + 45.6% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) @ 1.69
2 59% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 41% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) @ 1.77
3 71.4% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 28.6% Uzbekistani_Jew ( ) @ 1.77
4 50.7% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) + 49.3% Spanish_Baleares_IBS ( ) @ 1.89
5 64.4% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 35.6% Iranian_Jew ( ) @ 1.94
6 58.7% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 41.3% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 1.98
7 52.9% Italian_Bergamo ( ) + 47.1% Jew_Tat ( ) @ 2.02
8 60% Italian_Piedmont ( ) + 40% Iranian_Jew ( ) @ 2.13
9 60.9% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 39.1% Georgian_Jew ( ) @ 2.13
10 63.8% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 36.2% Uzbekistani_Jew ( ) @ 2.17
11 54.1% Italian_Piedmont ( ) + 45.9% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 2.21
12 67% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 33% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 2.22
13 54.1% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) + 45.9% Italian_Bergamo ( ) @ 2.24
14 63.4% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 36.6% Turk_Adana ( ) @ 2.25
15 56.3% Italian_Piedmont ( ) + 43.7% Georgian_Jew ( ) @ 2.27
16 71.9% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 28.1% Kurd_Jew ( ) @ 2.28
17 64.3% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 35.7% Kurd_Jew ( ) @ 2.29
18 50.2% Italian_Bergamo ( ) + 49.8% Iraqi_Jew ( ) @ 2.39
19 72.2% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 27.8% Iranian_Jew ( ) @ 2.41
20 69% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 31% Georgian_Jew ( ) @ 2.41

[Teucer]

Actual Greek islanders do not score like this, though... that reference population is faulty. This is someone from Kalymnos, one of the most southern Greek islands and I don't see it (or any Greek islander I've seen) scoring like the people in the first post:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.4
2 European_Early_Farmers 23.42
3 Near_East 11.23
4 South_Central_Asian 9.94
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 8.87
6 North_African 4.07
7 Ancestral_Altaic 2.64
8 Austronesian 1.28
9 Tungus-Altaic 0.49
10 Arctic 0.32
11 Melano_Polynesian 0.21
12 Paleo_Siberian 0.07
13 South_East_Asian 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 6.2
2 Sicilian_West ( ) 6.32
3 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 6.56
4 Greek_Northwest ( ) 6.67
5 French_Jew ( ) 6.73
6 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 6.79
7 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 6.81
8 Sicilian_East ( ) 6.82
9 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 7.43
10 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 7.88
11 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 7.94
12 Ashkenazi ( ) 8.01
13 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 8.05
14 Cretan ( ) 8.13
15 Turk_Jew ( ) 8.34
16 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 8.36
17 Italian_Jew ( ) 8.42
18 Kosovar ( ) 8.68
19 Central_Greek ( ) 8.71
20 Maltese ( ) 9.02

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.4% Italian_Piedmont ( ) + 45.6% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) @ 1.69
2 59% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 41% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) @ 1.77
3 71.4% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 28.6% Uzbekistani_Jew ( ) @ 1.77
4 50.7% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) + 49.3% Spanish_Baleares_IBS ( ) @ 1.89
5 64.4% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 35.6% Iranian_Jew ( ) @ 1.94
6 58.7% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 41.3% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 1.98
7 52.9% Italian_Bergamo ( ) + 47.1% Jew_Tat ( ) @ 2.02
8 60% Italian_Piedmont ( ) + 40% Iranian_Jew ( ) @ 2.13
9 60.9% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 39.1% Georgian_Jew ( ) @ 2.13
10 63.8% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 36.2% Uzbekistani_Jew ( ) @ 2.17
11 54.1% Italian_Piedmont ( ) + 45.9% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 2.21
12 67% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 33% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 2.22
13 54.1% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) + 45.9% Italian_Bergamo ( ) @ 2.24
14 63.4% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 36.6% Turk_Adana ( ) @ 2.25
15 56.3% Italian_Piedmont ( ) + 43.7% Georgian_Jew ( ) @ 2.27
16 71.9% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 28.1% Kurd_Jew ( ) @ 2.28
17 64.3% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 35.7% Kurd_Jew ( ) @ 2.29
18 50.2% Italian_Bergamo ( ) + 49.8% Iraqi_Jew ( ) @ 2.39
19 72.2% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 27.8% Iranian_Jew ( ) @ 2.41
20 69% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 31% Georgian_Jew ( ) @ 2.41

So the entire reference population is faulty but your one Greek from Kalymnos is a true representation?

What is the sample size for the faulty reference Greek Island population? I imagine it is more than one.

[JMack]

As Muslims were expelled from Sicily, many of them would have ended up in Calabria and converted to Christianity, and would never have ended up in southeast Sicily which was more or less shielded from any post-Neolithic West Asian input (they also have very little North African). The impact of this, plus Jews in Calabria, made Calabria how it is today, and you see remnants of the MENA input in northeast and west-central Sicily.

This is not possible though since Calabrese don't score any North African. Most Muslims who were present in Calabria after Arab conquest would be similar to the ones in Sicily. If they were expelled to Calabria modern Calabrese would possibly score some North African.

I think it's more likely that Calabrese, Cretans and Dodecanese were always similar. There's no recorded large scale migrations to Calabria. The only Near Eastern peoples there were the Phoenicians and for a short amount of time. Maybe some Jewish conversos, but that's all.

[Sikeliot]

So the entire reference population is faulty but your one Greek from Kalymnos is a true representation?

What is the sample size for the faulty reference Greek Island population? I imagine it is more than one.


I don't know, but when I asked the person who made the calculator where the Greek islands population was from they could not tell me the island.

These do score Greek islander but they do not score MENAs in their top 20, unlike the people in the first post.

This is, for the record, someone from Tilos in the Dodecanese. Again, it is different but consistent to the Kalymnian.

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 42.76
2 European_Early_Farmers 19.56
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 13.37
4 Near_East 11.78
5 South_Central_Asian 5.83
6 North_African 3.65
7 Paleo_Siberian 1.23
8 Melano_Polynesian 1.03
9 Ancestral_Altaic 0.38
10 Australoid 0.23
11 South_Indian 0.13
12 African_Pygmy 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek ( ) 3.38
2 Cretan ( ) 4.05
3 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 4.11
4 Greek_Athens ( ) 4.19
5 Italian_South ( ) 4.52
6 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 4.52
7 Greek_Islands ( ) 4.6
8 Greek_Phokaia ( ) 5.43
9 Romanian_Jew ( ) 6.05
10 Central_Greek ( ) 6.91
11 Cypriot ( ) 7.46
12 Sicilian_Center ( ) 7.64
13 Gagauz ( ) 8.33
14 Ashkenazi ( ) 8.37
15 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 8.82
16 Azov_Greek ( ) 8.98
17 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 9.39
18 Sicilian_East ( ) 9.55
19 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 9.82
20 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 9.99

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.9% Greek ( ) + 28.1% Cypriot ( ) @ 1.88
2 52.1% Central_Greek ( ) + 47.9% Cypriot ( ) @ 1.91
3 54.5% Cypriot ( ) + 45.5% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) @ 1.93
4 88.6% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.4% Kuban_cossack ( ) @ 1.99
5 69.9% Central_Greek ( ) + 30.1% Lebanese_Christian ( ) @ 2.02
6 88.8% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.2% Russian_Center ( ) @ 2.05
7 89.3% Greek_Islands ( ) + 10.7% Lithuanian ( ) @ 2.05
8 82.4% Greek_Athens ( ) + 17.6% Samaritian ( ) @ 2.06
9 88.1% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.9% Belarusian ( ) @ 2.06
10 85.2% Greek ( ) + 14.8% Lebanese_Christian ( ) @ 2.09
11 88.6% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.4% Belarusian_South ( ) @ 2.13
12 84.9% Greek ( ) + 15.1% Lebanese_Druze ( ) @ 2.13
13 88.5% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.5% Mixed_East_Slav ( ) @ 2.14
14 87.6% Greek_Islands ( ) + 12.4% Pole ( ) @ 2.14
15 88.5% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.5% Belarusian_Russian ( ) @ 2.14
16 57.7% Cypriot ( ) + 42.3% Albanian_Tirana ( ) @ 2.14
17 57.3% Cypriot ( ) + 42.7% Greek_Thessaly ( ) @ 2.14
18 90% Greek_Islands ( ) + 10% Latvian ( ) @ 2.15
19 87.8% Greek_Islands ( ) + 12.2% Don_cossack ( ) @ 2.15
20 69.3% Central_Greek ( ) + 30.7% Lebanese_Druze ( ) @ 2.15



As is this person from Chios:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.25
2 European_Early_Farmers 21.51
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.74
4 Near_East 10.91
5 South_Central_Asian 6.55
6 North_African 3.08
7 Paleo_Siberian 0.75
8 Austronesian 0.72
9 Archaic_Human 0.45
10 East_Siberian 0.41
11 Ancestral_Altaic 0.35
12 Melano_Polynesian 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 2.94
2 Greek_Athens ( ) 3.3
3 Greek_Islands ( ) 3.3
4 Greek ( ) 3.64
5 Italian_South ( ) 3.85
6 Cretan ( ) 4.97
7 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 5.54
8 Greek_Phokaia ( ) 6.19
9 Central_Greek ( ) 6.42
10 Romanian_Jew ( ) 6.71
11 Sicilian_Center ( ) 7.31
12 Cypriot ( ) 8.21
13 Ashkenazi ( ) 8.65
14 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 8.85
15 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 9.45
16 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 9.5
17 Gagauz ( ) 9.51
18 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 9.59
19 Sicilian_East ( ) 9.6
20 Azov_Greek ( ) 9.84

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.4% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 41.6% Italian_South ( ) @ 1.52
2 53.8% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 46.2% Greek_Athens ( ) @ 1.6
3 57.6% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 42.4% Greek ( ) @ 1.81
4 84.7% Greek_Islands ( ) + 15.3% Bulgarian ( ) @ 1.95
5 90.8% Greek_Islands ( ) + 9.2% Hungarian_Budapest ( ) @ 1.97
6 92.1% Greek_Islands ( ) + 7.9% Kashub ( ) @ 1.99
7 92.8% Greek_Islands ( ) + 7.2% German ( ) @ 2
8 70.5% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 29.5% Greek_Macedonia ( ) @ 2
9 91.1% Greek_Islands ( ) + 8.9% Slovenian ( ) @ 2.01
10 93.7% Greek_Islands ( ) + 6.3% Swede_Saami ( ) @ 2.02
11 91.3% Greek_Islands ( ) + 8.7% Hungarian ( ) @ 2.02
12 87% Greek_Islands ( ) + 13% Montenegrian ( ) @ 2.03
13 91.7% Greek_Islands ( ) + 8.3% Slovak ( ) @ 2.03
14 92.2% Greek_Islands ( ) + 7.8% Sorb ( ) @ 2.04
15 85% Greek_Islands ( ) + 15% Macedonian ( ) @ 2.05
16 91.5% Greek_Islands ( ) + 8.5% Czech ( ) @ 2.05
17 88.3% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.7% Serb_BH ( ) @ 2.05
18 88.6% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.4% Serb_Serbia ( ) @ 2.05
19 93.5% Greek_Islands ( ) + 6.5% North_German ( ) @ 2.06
20 88.7% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.3% Bosnian ( ) @ 2.07

[Sikeliot]

I think it's more likely that Calabrese, Cretans and Dodecanese were always similar. There's no recorded large scale migrations to Calabria. The only Near Eastern peoples there were the Phoenicians and for a short amount of time. Maybe some Jewish conversos, but that's all.

My impression is southern Calabria/Messina/Catania is basically like the Dodecanese and the rest of Calabria is like Crete. Palermo also falls into this overall grouping, while the rest of western Sicily except Trapani is more like the other Greek islands that are not Crete/Dodecanese.

The question is, how did SE Sicilians totally evade extra MENA and end up genetically so different from other Sicilians. Either they lost the MENA input by mixing with mainland Greeks, or they never had it.

[Teucer]

I don't know, but when I asked the person who made the calculator where the Greek islands population was from they could not tell me the island.

These do score Greek islander but they do not score MENAs in their top 20, unlike the people in the first post.

This is, for the record, someone from Tilos in the Dodecanese. Again, it is different but consistent to the Kalymnian.

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 42.76
2 European_Early_Farmers 19.56
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 13.37
4 Near_East 11.78
5 South_Central_Asian 5.83
6 North_African 3.65
7 Paleo_Siberian 1.23
8 Melano_Polynesian 1.03
9 Ancestral_Altaic 0.38
10 Australoid 0.23
11 South_Indian 0.13
12 African_Pygmy 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek ( ) 3.38
2 Cretan ( ) 4.05
3 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 4.11
4 Greek_Athens ( ) 4.19
5 Italian_South ( ) 4.52
6 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 4.52
7 Greek_Islands ( ) 4.6
8 Greek_Phokaia ( ) 5.43
9 Romanian_Jew ( ) 6.05
10 Central_Greek ( ) 6.91
11 Cypriot ( ) 7.46
12 Sicilian_Center ( ) 7.64
13 Gagauz ( ) 8.33
14 Ashkenazi ( ) 8.37
15 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 8.82
16 Azov_Greek ( ) 8.98
17 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 9.39
18 Sicilian_East ( ) 9.55
19 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 9.82
20 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 9.99

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.9% Greek ( ) + 28.1% Cypriot ( ) @ 1.88
2 52.1% Central_Greek ( ) + 47.9% Cypriot ( ) @ 1.91
3 54.5% Cypriot ( ) + 45.5% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) @ 1.93
4 88.6% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.4% Kuban_cossack ( ) @ 1.99
5 69.9% Central_Greek ( ) + 30.1% Lebanese_Christian ( ) @ 2.02
6 88.8% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.2% Russian_Center ( ) @ 2.05
7 89.3% Greek_Islands ( ) + 10.7% Lithuanian ( ) @ 2.05
8 82.4% Greek_Athens ( ) + 17.6% Samaritian ( ) @ 2.06
9 88.1% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.9% Belarusian ( ) @ 2.06
10 85.2% Greek ( ) + 14.8% Lebanese_Christian ( ) @ 2.09
11 88.6% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.4% Belarusian_South ( ) @ 2.13
12 84.9% Greek ( ) + 15.1% Lebanese_Druze ( ) @ 2.13
13 88.5% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.5% Mixed_East_Slav ( ) @ 2.14
14 87.6% Greek_Islands ( ) + 12.4% Pole ( ) @ 2.14
15 88.5% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.5% Belarusian_Russian ( ) @ 2.14
16 57.7% Cypriot ( ) + 42.3% Albanian_Tirana ( ) @ 2.14
17 57.3% Cypriot ( ) + 42.7% Greek_Thessaly ( ) @ 2.14
18 90% Greek_Islands ( ) + 10% Latvian ( ) @ 2.15
19 87.8% Greek_Islands ( ) + 12.2% Don_cossack ( ) @ 2.15
20 69.3% Central_Greek ( ) + 30.7% Lebanese_Druze ( ) @ 2.15



As is this person from Chios:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.25
2 European_Early_Farmers 21.51
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.74
4 Near_East 10.91
5 South_Central_Asian 6.55
6 North_African 3.08
7 Paleo_Siberian 0.75
8 Austronesian 0.72
9 Archaic_Human 0.45
10 East_Siberian 0.41
11 Ancestral_Altaic 0.35
12 Melano_Polynesian 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 2.94
2 Greek_Athens ( ) 3.3
3 Greek_Islands ( ) 3.3
4 Greek ( ) 3.64
5 Italian_South ( ) 3.85
6 Cretan ( ) 4.97
7 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 5.54
8 Greek_Phokaia ( ) 6.19
9 Central_Greek ( ) 6.42
10 Romanian_Jew ( ) 6.71
11 Sicilian_Center ( ) 7.31
12 Cypriot ( ) 8.21
13 Ashkenazi ( ) 8.65
14 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 8.85
15 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 9.45
16 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 9.5
17 Gagauz ( ) 9.51
18 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 9.59
19 Sicilian_East ( ) 9.6
20 Azov_Greek ( ) 9.84

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.4% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 41.6% Italian_South ( ) @ 1.52
2 53.8% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 46.2% Greek_Athens ( ) @ 1.6
3 57.6% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 42.4% Greek ( ) @ 1.81
4 84.7% Greek_Islands ( ) + 15.3% Bulgarian ( ) @ 1.95
5 90.8% Greek_Islands ( ) + 9.2% Hungarian_Budapest ( ) @ 1.97
6 92.1% Greek_Islands ( ) + 7.9% Kashub ( ) @ 1.99
7 92.8% Greek_Islands ( ) + 7.2% German ( ) @ 2
8 70.5% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 29.5% Greek_Macedonia ( ) @ 2
9 91.1% Greek_Islands ( ) + 8.9% Slovenian ( ) @ 2.01
10 93.7% Greek_Islands ( ) + 6.3% Swede_Saami ( ) @ 2.02
11 91.3% Greek_Islands ( ) + 8.7% Hungarian ( ) @ 2.02
12 87% Greek_Islands ( ) + 13% Montenegrian ( ) @ 2.03
13 91.7% Greek_Islands ( ) + 8.3% Slovak ( ) @ 2.03
14 92.2% Greek_Islands ( ) + 7.8% Sorb ( ) @ 2.04
15 85% Greek_Islands ( ) + 15% Macedonian ( ) @ 2.05
16 91.5% Greek_Islands ( ) + 8.5% Czech ( ) @ 2.05
17 88.3% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.7% Serb_BH ( ) @ 2.05
18 88.6% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.4% Serb_Serbia ( ) @ 2.05
19 93.5% Greek_Islands ( ) + 6.5% North_German ( ) @ 2.06
20 88.7% Greek_Islands ( ) + 11.3% Bosnian ( ) @ 2.07

They still score similar matches with certain populations. Greek Smyrna, Cypriot, even Azov Greek. If it is not a Greek component they are matching with, it is a Caucasian one. Nevertheless, there is still affinity, so you can't just outright say these Anatolian Greeks have nothing in common with Island Greeks.

[Sikeliot]

They still score similar matches with certain populations. Greek Smyrna, Cypriot, even Azov Greek. If it is not a Greek component they are matching with, it is a Caucasian one. Nevertheless, there is still affinity, so you can't just outright say these Anatolian Greeks have nothing in common with Island Greeks.



This is not possible though since Calabrese don't score any North African. Most Muslims who were present in Calabria after Arab conquest would be similar to the ones in Sicily. If they were expelled to Calabria modern Calabrese would possibly score some North African.

I think it's more likely that Calabrese, Cretans and Dodecanese were always similar. There's no recorded large scale migrations to Calabria. The only Near Eastern peoples there were the Phoenicians and for a short amount of time. Maybe some Jewish conversos, but that's all.


Also for comparison here is a Calabrese from Reggio Calabria, a Palermitan, Messinese, and Syracusan in that order.

The Calabrese is the most exotic European result I have ever seen. They are closer to a Cypriot than to anyone else on the list, or "Greek Islands" + 1/5 ARABIAN PENINSULA. He is a relative of mine on 23andme and is from 3 towns at the tip of Calabria.

The Palermitan is much more "Jewish" like and close to Moroccan Jews because of the North African, and scores Sephardim first.

Messinese result is close to the Palermitan or like a watered down version of the Calabrese.

Syracusan is almost a Peloponnesian.


Calabria:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 42.74
2 European_Early_Farmers 18.1
3 Near_East 17.64
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 10.83
5 North_African 5.2
6 South_Central_Asian 3.27
7 East_African 0.71
8 Amerindian 0.52
9 South_Indian 0.31
10 Tungus-Altaic 0.23
11 Arctic 0.19
12 Archaic_Human 0.15
13 Australoid 0.07
14 African_Pygmy 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cypriot ( ) 6.5
2 Cretan ( ) 7.11
3 Greek_Phokaia ( ) 7.35
4 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 7.46
5 Greek_Islands ( ) 7.86
6 Greek ( ) 8.11
7 Italian_South ( ) 8.28
8 Romanian_Jew ( ) 8.79
9 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 8.85
10 Greek_Athens ( ) 9.13
11 Sicilian_Center ( ) 9.7
12 Syrian_Jew ( ) 9.97
13 Ashkenazi ( ) 10.62
14 Sicilian_East ( ) 11.17
15 Italian_Jew ( ) 11.29
16 Turk_Jew ( ) 11.42
17 Central_Greek ( ) 11.43
18 Gagauz ( ) 11.7
19 Lebanese_Muslim ( ) 11.71
20 Lebanese_Christian ( ) 12.26

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.8% Greek_Islands ( ) + 20.2% Yemenite_Jew ( ) @ 2.09
2 79.3% Italian_South ( ) + 20.7% Yemenite_Jew ( ) @ 2.84
3 56.4% Sicilian_Center ( ) + 43.6% Lebanese_Christian ( ) @ 3.22
4 87.7% Greek_Islands ( ) + 12.3% Qatari ( ) @ 3.3
5 51.7% Lebanese_Christian ( ) + 48.3% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) @ 3.4
6 69.6% Lebanese_Christian ( ) + 30.4% Italian_Piedmont ( ) @ 3.4
7 57.1% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 42.9% Druze ( ) @ 3.44
8 52% Lebanese_Christian ( ) + 48% Greek_Thessaly ( ) @ 3.49
9 86.1% Greek_Islands ( ) + 13.9% Saudi ( ) @ 3.5
10 70.5% Greek_Islands ( ) + 29.5% Palestinian ( ) @ 3.51
11 78% Greek_Athens ( ) + 22% Yemenite_Jew ( ) @ 3.53
12 64.6% Greek_Phokaia ( ) + 35.4% Lebanese_Christian ( ) @ 3.54
13 54% Ashkenazi ( ) + 46% Lebanese_Christian ( ) @ 3.55
14 67.5% Lebanese_Christian ( ) + 32.5% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 3.6
15 79.2% Greek_Islands ( ) + 20.8% BedouinA ( ) @ 3.6
16 50.2% Lebanese_Christian ( ) + 49.8% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) @ 3.61
17 62.6% Lebanese_Christian ( ) + 37.4% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 3.62
18 58.7% Lebanese_Christian ( ) + 41.3% Kosovar ( ) @ 3.69
19 53% Lebanese_Christian ( ) + 47% Albanian_Tirana ( ) @ 3.73
20 72.2% Druze ( ) + 27.8% Spanish_Baleares_IBS ( ) @ 3.74


Palermitan:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 35.26
2 European_Early_Farmers 20.85
3 Near_East 13.15
4 North_African 8.97
5 South_Central_Asian 8.7
6 European_Hunters_Gatherers 8.58
7 East_African 1.81
8 Ancestral_Altaic 0.82
9 Subsaharian 0.77
10 South_Indian 0.48
11 Archaic_African 0.3
12 Tungus-Altaic 0.29
13 Archaic_Human 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 4.53
2 Turk_Jew ( ) 5.56
3 Sicilian_West ( ) 5.64
4 Moroccan_Jew ( ) 5.76
5 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 6.02
6 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 6.18
7 French_Jew ( ) 6.32
8 Italian_Jew ( ) 6.77
9 Maltese ( ) 6.78
10 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 7.68
11 Sicilian_East ( ) 8.06
12 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 8.26
13 Libyan_Jew ( ) 8.74
14 Tunisian_Jew ( ) 9.27
15 Ashkenazi ( ) 9.77
16 Syrian_Jew ( ) 10.04
17 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 10.33
18 Greek_Northwest ( ) 10.61
19 Cretan ( ) 10.93
20 Bulgarian ( ) 11.11

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.9% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 22.1% Portugese ( ) @ 1.82
2 94.3% Turk_Jew ( ) + 5.7% Kalash ( ) @ 2.01
3 63.4% Lebanese_Druze ( ) + 36.6% Spanish_Canarias_IBS ( ) @ 2.1
4 91.6% Sephardic_Jew ( ) + 8.4% Tajik_Pomiri_Rushan ( ) @ 2.11
5 80.9% French_Jew ( ) + 19.1% Ain_Touta_WGA ( ) @ 2.13
6 93.7% Turk_Jew ( ) + 6.3% Brahui ( ) @ 2.14
7 80.9% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 19.1% Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS ( ) @ 2.15
8 92.9% Turk_Jew ( ) + 7.1% Makrani ( ) @ 2.16
9 80.6% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 19.4% Spanish_Galicia_IBS ( ) @ 2.16
10 92.1% Sephardic_Jew ( ) + 7.9% Tajik_Pomiri_Shugnan ( ) @ 2.19
11 80.7% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 19.3% Spanish_Canarias_IBS ( ) @ 2.23
12 93.3% Turk_Jew ( ) + 6.7% Balochi ( ) @ 2.23
13 80.3% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 19.7% Spanish_Extremadura_IBS ( ) @ 2.23
14 80.6% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 19.4% Spanish_Murcia_IBS ( ) @ 2.23
15 92.7% Sephardic_Jew ( ) + 7.3% Tajik_Pomiri_Ishkashim ( ) @ 2.26
16 92.1% Sephardic_Jew ( ) + 7.9% Uzbek_Afghan ( ) @ 2.28
17 91.3% Italian_Jew ( ) + 8.7% Makrani ( ) @ 2.3
18 90.6% Sephardic_Jew ( ) + 9.4% Tajik_Yagnobi ( ) @ 2.3
19 79.5% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 20.5% Spaniard ( ) @ 2.33
20 86.6% Sephardic_Jew ( ) + 13.4% Ain_Touta_WGA ( ) @ 2.33


Messina:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 34.59
2 European_Early_Farmers 22.32
3 Near_East 14.61
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 9.63
5 South_Central_Asian 8.36
6 North_African 6.72
7 East_African 1.98
8 Subsaharian 0.74
9 Australoid 0.65
10 African_Pygmy 0.2
11 Khoisan 0.19

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian_West ( ) 4.59
2 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 5.48
3 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 5.73
4 Turk_Jew ( ) 6.51
5 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 6.8
6 Maltese ( ) 7.01
7 Moroccan_Jew ( ) 7.03
8 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 7.1
9 French_Jew ( ) 7.16
10 Italian_Jew ( ) 7.78
11 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 8.02
12 Sicilian_East ( ) 8.63
13 Greek_Northwest ( ) 9.97
14 Libyan_Jew ( ) 10.06
15 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 10.19
16 Ashkenazi ( ) 10.53
17 Italian_Abruzzo ( ) 11.18
18 Tunisian_Jew ( ) 11.19
19 Bulgarian ( ) 11.46
20 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 11.59

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.8% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 31.2% Spanish_Andalucia_IBS ( ) @ 2.16
2 69.7% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 30.3% Spanish_Valencia_IBS ( ) @ 2.17
3 66% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 34% Spaniard ( ) @ 2.27
4 67.6% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 32.4% Spanish_Cataluna_IBS ( ) @ 2.3
5 70.5% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 29.5% Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha_IBS ( ) @ 2.31
6 62% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 38% Spanish_Baleares_IBS ( ) @ 2.33
7 71.4% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 28.6% Spanish_Cantabria_IBS ( ) @ 2.43
8 67.7% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 32.3% Spanish_Murcia_IBS ( ) @ 2.43
9 56.2% Lebanese ( ) + 43.8% Italian_Bergamo ( ) @ 2.44
10 82.1% Sicilian_West ( ) + 17.9% Muslim_Arabs_Israel ( ) @ 2.47
11 71.5% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 28.5% Spanish_Aragon_IBS ( ) @ 2.5
12 82.7% Sicilian_West ( ) + 17.3% Palestinian ( ) @ 2.52
13 85.8% Sicilian_West ( ) + 14.2% BedouinA ( ) @ 2.53
14 89.5% Sicilian_West ( ) + 10.5% Yemenite_Jew ( ) @ 2.53
15 73.5% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 26.5% French_South ( ) @ 2.57
16 53.9% Samaritian ( ) + 46.1% Italian_Bergamo ( ) @ 2.58
17 83% Sicilian_West ( ) + 17% Jordanian ( ) @ 2.58
18 63.3% Lebanese ( ) + 36.7% Spanish_Baleares_IBS ( ) @ 2.65
19 84.5% Sicilian_West ( ) + 15.5% Syrian ( ) @ 2.65
20 57.2% Lebanese_Druze ( ) + 42.8% Portugese ( ) @ 2.7



Syracusan:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 36.85
2 European_Early_Farmers 25.74
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 12.5
4 Near_East 8.38
5 North_African 7.07
6 South_Central_Asian 6.72
7 South_East_Asian 1.8
8 Ancestral_Altaic 0.55
9 East_African 0.31
10 Australoid 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 4.08
2 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 4.29
3 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 4.39
4 French_Jew ( ) 4.83
5 Sicilian_West ( ) 5.19
6 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 5.23
7 Sicilian_East ( ) 5.28
8 Maltese ( ) 5.36
9 Greek_Northwest ( ) 5.85
10 Kosovar ( ) 6.64
11 Ashkenazi ( ) 6.81
12 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 6.96
13 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 7.15
14 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 7.32
15 Italian_Abruzzo ( ) 7.33
16 Italian_Jew ( ) 7.43
17 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 7.53
18 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 7.66
19 Turk_Jew ( ) 8.14
20 Romanian_Jew ( ) 9.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 94.4% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 5.6% Georgian_Imereti ( ) @ 2.62
2 94.1% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 5.9% Georgian_Megrelia ( ) @ 2.64
3 93.9% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 6.1% Georgian ( ) @ 2.66
4 94.6% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 5.4% Georgian_Laz ( ) @ 2.67
5 93.9% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 6.1% Abkhasian ( ) @ 2.69
6 94.3% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 5.7% Georgian_Svan ( ) @ 2.69
7 94.4% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 5.6% Georgian_Tbilisi ( ) @ 2.7
8 94.1% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 5.9% Adjara ( ) @ 2.75
9 93.1% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 6.9% Turk_Trabzon ( ) @ 2.75
10 93.3% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 6.7% Kakheti ( ) @ 2.76
11 78% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 22% Greek_Athens ( ) @ 2.85
12 79.6% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 20.4% Greek_Smyrna ( ) @ 2.85
13 91.9% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 8.1% Circassian ( ) @ 2.87
14 91.6% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 8.4% Armenian ( ) @ 2.9
15 93% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 7% Ossetian ( ) @ 2.92
16 90.6% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 9.4% Cirkassian ( ) @ 2.94
17 85.7% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 14.3% Azov_Greek ( ) @ 2.95
18 78.8% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 21.2% Italian_South ( ) @ 2.96
19 76.7% Sicilian_East ( ) + 23.3% Italian_North ( ) @ 2.96
20 92.6% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 7.4% Balkar ( ) @ 2.96

[Sikeliot]

Based on the above it seems that southern Calabria is unmatched in outlying qualities, the Palermitan/Messinese are more Jewish-like and show the added MENA, while the Syracusan is not really exotic at all.

[Bobby Martnen]

Anatolian Greeks probably have some mainland Greek input, just not a lot. (i.e. single digits) They're mostly indigenous to Asia Minor and the Caucasus.

[JMack]

Based on the above it seems that southern Calabria is unmatched in outlying qualities, the Palermitan/Messinese are more Jewish-like and show the added MENA, while the Syracusan is not really exotic at all.

This particular dude yes. But I guess his results aren't the average there, right?

Most other GEDmatch Calabrese I've seen were more ''normal''. You can't use one result to determine an entire population. It would be like using outlier Cretans as average for all Crete or Greece.

[Tauromachos]

Anatolian Greeks probably have some mainland Greek input, just not a lot. (i.e. single digits) They're mostly indigenous to Asia Minor and the Caucasus.

No they are not.
At least regular Greeks from Asia Minor that means West Anatolia are almost the same with Greeks they are similar to Aegean Island Greeks and also to Mainland
Greeks for that matter.

[Sikeliot]

This particular dude yes. But I guess his results aren't the average there, right?

Most other GEDmatch Calabrese I've seen were more ''normal''. You can't use one result to determine an entire population. It would be like using outlier Cretans as average for all Crete or Greece.


That is typical for Reggio Calabria in my experience, whereas other parts of Calabria are more like the Messina result.

[Sikeliot]

It is my inclination that a lot of Calabrese and some Sicilians will be closer to Cyprus than to anywhere in mainland Greece. Not even Apulians are close to northern Greeks, there is a difference there let alone when compared to Calabrese.

[Tauromachos]

It is my inclination that a lot of Calabrese and some Sicilians will be closer to Cyprus than to anywhere in mainland Greece

This can be true
Why not?
I don't disagree..

[Sikeliot]

This can be true
Why not?
I don't disagree..

Those with extra MENA will end up at least intermediate.

[BalkanTurk]

The fact that the majority of Turks have mongoloid admix doesn't negate the fact that there are plenty of Turks as well as Kurds, with no mongoloid influence who might have Armenian, Syrian, North African and other origins. Turks are a mongrel ethnicity.I've personally still got to come across Turks with no Mongoloid-Caucasoid synthesis thats typical for Turkic admixture.

Saying we are a mongrel ethnicity is like saying Greeks are too. The Greek language came from the Proto-Indo-European homeland in Ukraine/Russia. By means of migrations the Indo-Europeans spread to many regions in the world and assimilated the pre-Indo-European peoples of the regions they settled in. Some regions were settled by many Indo-European tribes, like Kyrgyzstan and Kashmir, but others not so much. Genetic studies show that Greeks barely have ancestry from Indo-Europeans, especially Cretans. What happened is, after 3000 BC the Greek Indo-European tribes who were heavily outnumbered by pre-Greeks imposed their identity and language on the pre-Greeks, who had their own identity and language but lost those due to the assimilation. The modern Greeks are primarily descended from pre-Greeks.

The exact same process happened to Turks. There are two differences : 1. Turks have more Central Asian ancestry than Greeks have Indo-European ancestry 2. Anatolian Turks assimilated and mixed with non-Turks after 1071 while Greeks assimilated and mixed with non-Greeks around 3000-1500 BC.

So if you say Turks are mongrels, Greeks must be mongrels too...

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