Reuniting Moldova with Romania, for or against?

[Albion]

What are your opinions on reuniting Moldova with Romania? I personally don't see why Moldova should't rejoin Romania since both share the same language, culture, people and heritage.

The supposed "Moldovan" ethnicity and language are a lie, they're a regional branch of the Romanians in my opinion.
As for Transdnestr I see it as a lost cause, it might as well be left to Ukraine, Transdnestran Russians and Ukrainians would probably except that and Moldova is wasting its time attempting to get it back.

What are your views on this topic?

http://i53.tinypic.com/dpydn7.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/vyxnup.jpg

[ikki]

Start by asking the moldavians?

[Albion]

Start by asking the moldavians?

Well I was hoping Romanians and Moldovans on this board might answer themselves, I already know the views of some Moldovans I know myself and they're for it but they appear to be in the minority.
But this doesn't exclude what other Europeans think about the two nations, people can state their views from other nations without forcing them onto the Moldovans or Romanians I'm sure.

[Loddfafner]

I have a hard time seeing Moldova as any more credible as a country than Transdniestria.

[Great Dane]

But it has been a country for 20 years.

[ikki]

I have a hard time seeing Moldova as any more credible as a country than Transdniestria.

and a good long time previously.. more or less under turkish overlordship

[Daos]

Obviously I am for such a union, but one must also consider the impact it would have on our economy. People are already discontent, just imagine how things would be after the union...


Start by asking the moldavians?

Excluding Russians, Ukrainians and russified Romanians, I'm fairly sure they are in favour of the union.


But it has been a country for 20 years.


and a good long time previously.. more or less under turkish overlordship

...Together with the Moldova region in Romania as part of Moldavia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia).

[Nurzat]

moldova, including the half which lies in today's romania, always had strong connections with the eastern slavic states (Киевская Русь, Галицко-Волынское княжество, later Царство Русское and Российская Империя...). slavs have been on moldovan ground for 1500 years. moldova's population largely consists of moldavianized and then romanianized slavs. genetically, moldavians are pretty much like their ukrainian neighbours. plus, the moldovan republic has a soviet heritage which even if it is perpetuated in the local romanian dialect, is still a soviet culture. indeed, most moldovans wish the unification with romania. i am not against it, but moldovans should keep their particular culture, and that is hard in a megacentralized and nationalist country as romania. and think of that - more than 1/4 of the moldavians' vocabulary in romania (western moldova) consists of slavic origin terms. the sad thing is that after the 1859 unification of moldova and wallachia, it was no collaboration between the two, moldova was clearly regarded as something added to the country and to be brought up to the southern "feeling", in matter of language (dialect) and customs. this is wrong about romanians, they don't understand that a country can and must have diversity, some times even great, without putting the national unity at stakes. romanians want everything centralized, bucharestized, equal and the same. i really hope they think like this only because of the communism and the nationalist propaganda and will pass over it in time. moldova is surely heading towards romania, but romanians better take care and watch us as equals, not as subordinated new territory ready to be "cleaned" of its local pride and local culture

[Geto-Thracian]

moldova, including the half which lies in today's romania, always had strong connections with the eastern slavic states (Киевская Русь, Галицко-Волынское княжество, later Царство Русское and Российская Империя...). slavs have been on moldovan ground for 1500 years. moldova's population largely consists of moldavianized and then romanianized slavs. genetically, moldavians are pretty much like their ukrainian neighbours. plus, the moldovan republic has a soviet heritage which even if it is perpetuated in the local romanian dialect, is still a soviet culture. indeed, most moldovans wish the unification with romania. i am not against it, but moldovans should keep their particular culture, and that is hard in a megacentralized and nationalist country as romania. and think of that - more than 1/4 of the moldavians' vocabulary in romania (western moldova) consists of slavic origin terms. the sad thing is that after the 1859 unification of moldova and wallachia, it was no collaboration between the two, moldova was clearly regarded as something added to the country and to be brought up to the southern "feeling", in matter of language (dialect) and customs. this is wrong about romanians, they don't understand that a country can and must have diversity, some times even great, without putting the national unity at stakes. romanians want everything centralized, bucharestized, equal and the same. i really hope they think like this only because of the communism and the nationalist propaganda and will pass over it in time. moldova is surely heading towards romania, but romanians better take care and watch us as equals, not as subordinated new territory ready to be "cleaned" of its local pride and local culture

The centralization model is a holdover from our love-affair with all things French and we tried to copy their heavily centralized system. I agree this is not workable nowdays and if a union ever took place, Romanians would have to not treat Moldova as a backwater province and develop it while giving Chisinau the proper respect and importance it deserves as the second most important city in the new Romania. It would be, by far, the second-biggest city in the newly-united nation.

Traiasca Romania mare!

[Talvi]

If they want to join, im for it. If they dont want to reunite, then im against it.

Having strong ties with a country isnt a real reason enough to want to be united, though. Unless things were going really bad and they needed support.

[Sabinae]

The people want to... its not only because of the ties, its because they feel close to Romania, they have Romanian hearts :). But yes...guess the political "minds" rulling must be "afraid" of something, and if i wouldnt know better that would have to do with Russia.

Believe me, the people also need support... im for uniting all the way. I dont see them as a different country anyhow, to me they are Romanians still.

[Talvi]

Is this something that is actually being discussed in reality with the state heads?

[Sabinae]

I dont know if it still is, but i know it has, and the Romanian president stated clearly he is for uniting and awaiting for them to take the decision.

[Talvi]

I searched the net for a bit and noticed that Romanians are much more in favor of unifiying the two. Possibly because they still see Moldovians as Romanians and "want them back".

According the internet most conducted national Moldovian polls show that almost half of the Moldovian population see themselves as different from Romanians. I do not think Moldova would want to give up their "freedom".

Are there any moldovians here?

[Sabinae]

"freedom", "want them back"??? lol, you have a funny use of language. :D
WE DO NOT VIEW THEM AS POSSESIONS, THEY ARE FREE TO CHOOSE AND DO HOWEVER THEY LIKE. I still love them the same, and i still see them as Romanians. Also, i wish them the best, wisdom and strength. Fin.

Please choose your words better next time... you kind of offended my feelings... :(

P.S. I also metioned the Romanian president feels the same. IT IS THEIR DECISON, we are open to them, thats all. Gosh...where did u get the idea we're some sort of "octopuses" stretching out to grab their "freedom", LOOOL

[Albion]

moldova, including the half which lies in today's romania, always had strong connections with the eastern slavic states (Киевская Русь, Галицко-Волынское княжество, later Царство Русское and Российская Империя...). slavs have been on moldovan ground for 1500 years. moldova's population largely consists of moldavianized and then romanianized slavs. genetically, moldavians are pretty much like their ukrainian neighbours. plus, the moldovan republic has a soviet heritage which even if it is perpetuated in the local romanian dialect, is still a soviet culture. indeed, most moldovans wish the unification with romania. i am not against it, but moldovans should keep their particular culture, and that is hard in a megacentralized and nationalist country as romania. and think of that - more than 1/4 of the moldavians' vocabulary in romania (western moldova) consists of slavic origin terms. the sad thing is that after the 1859 unification of moldova and wallachia, it was no collaboration between the two, moldova was clearly regarded as something added to the country and to be brought up to the southern "feeling", in matter of language (dialect) and customs. this is wrong about romanians, they don't understand that a country can and must have diversity, some times even great, without putting the national unity at stakes. romanians want everything centralized, bucharestized, equal and the same. i really hope they think like this only because of the communism and the nationalist propaganda and will pass over it in time. moldova is surely heading towards romania, but romanians better take care and watch us as equals, not as subordinated new territory ready to be "cleaned" of its local pride and local culture

Some people say the same thing about Romanians, that they're Latinized Slavs who resulted from the migration of Romance-speakers from the Balkans to Romania and Moldova "Romanianizing" the Slavic population.
In reality whether the Romanians are part Slavic or not there is little real difference between the two.


Is this something that is actually being discussed in reality with the state heads?

There's a large minority of people in Moldova who want the two countries united. The Moldovan Communist party has accused Romania of trying to instigate this in the past by offering Romanian citizenship to Moldovans.
Communist supporters in Moldova are generally more against it and favour ties with Russia and the preservation of Moldova so the whole play between East and West comes into light.

[Talvi]

"freedom", "want them back"??? lol, you have a funny use of language. :D
WE DO NOT VIEW THEM AS POSSESIONS, THEY ARE FREE TO CHOOSE AND DO HOWEVER THEY LIKE. I still love them the same, and i still see them as Romanians. Also, i wish them the best, wisdom and strength. Fin.

Please choose your words better next time... you kind of offended my feelings... :(

P.S. I also metioned the Romanian president feels the same. IT IS THEIR DECISON, we are open to them, thats all. Gosh...where did u get the idea we're some sort of "octopuses" stretching out to grab their "freedom", LOOOL


I didnt mean anything bad intentionally. I really like Romania.

It just seems like "Moldova" would become "Romania". I dont think "Romania" would want to become "Moldova"? Or if they did join would they have a completely new name?

If i grew up thinking im Moldovian I dont think it would be an idea id like to let go very easily despite any similarities.

[Albion]

I didnt mean anything bad intentionally. I really like Romania.

It just seems like "Moldova" would become "Romania". I dont think "Romania" would want to become "Moldova"? Or if they did join would they have a completely new name?

If i grew up thinking im Moldovian I dont think it would be an idea id like to let go very easily despite any similarities.

What if you were brought up as East German or West German divided by politics? Or Andorran or Catalan Spanish divided by borders?

[The Ripper]

Seems to me that the strongest opposition to unifications stems from Soviet legacy. This means unification must be a good thing. ;)

[Daos]

If i grew up thinking im Moldovian I dont think it would be an idea id like to let go very easily despite any similarities.

They would still be called Moldovans, but on a national level, rather than an international one.

[Sabinae]

They would still be called Moldovans, but on a national level, rather than an international one.

I agree with Daos. They will always be called Moldovans, even if they unite. Like they call the southern Romanians "munteni" :)

[Nurzat]

i am half ukrainian and half moldavian (the romanian side of moldova), since you were asking of moldavians around

anyway, i wonder what would romanians say if the moldavians of romania would decide to unify with the republic of moldova. would they risk holding a referendum? after all, moldavia had it's own history until 1859, separate from wallachia. same language doesn't make up for a unified czechoslovakia or bulgaria/macedonia or serbia/croatia or even greece/cyprus. a minor difference would be also the fact that moldovans from the republic are old style orthodox (staroviri), as eastern slavs, while romanians are new style orthodox

but anyway, most moldavians of romania feel romanian and wouldn't want something like that. i was just curious of the other romanians' reaction if it were such a situation. it's like thinking you have rights on other regions just because :)

[Nurzat]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Moldovans.PNG

[Loddfafner]

Considering the confusion between Moldova, Moldavia, and Molvania, why doesn't Moldova return to its traditional name, Bessarabia?

[Guapo]

Yes, reunite them.

[Nurzat]

bessarabia is not accurate. it refers to the southern part of historical moldavia, now being mostly in ukraine, but anyway that region is better called budjak. bessarabia was extended as name by the russians, form 1812 to 1917, but no moldavian calls himself bessarabian. there is a trend in romania to call moldovans from the republic bessarabians, to differ from the moldovans in romania, but it is an exonym, no moldavian would like it to be imposed again, from the exterior. in speech and customs moldova is pretty much the same from carpathians to dnestr and from chernivtsi oblast to milcov and danube

[Geto-Thracian]

I think the united lands of all Romanian speakers should ditch the name of Romania and be called Dacia, Magna Dacia, or New Dacia.

[Caeruleus]

I'm from Rep. of Moldova and I say Hell Yeah. Long live Greater Romania.

[Sturmgewehr]

FOR, Romanians or Moldovans same thing speak same Language time for them to Reunite.

[Turkophagos]

Transnistria should unite with Greater Russia (Russia-Ukraine-Bellarussia) and the rest should unite with "Romania", forming the Republic of Moldovlachia.

[morski]

Sturmgewehr16, how would you feel about a future unification of Bulgaria and FYROM?

On the subject. At the present moment the rep of Moldova seems to be struggling with being an independant country and probably it is in their best interest to become part of either Romania or Ukraine, but which one :) Romania would be the more obvious choice, but the 25%(mostly slavs) strong minority and the moldovans who vote communist are against. All of the bessarabian bulgarians I know prefer closer ties with the Commonwealth of Independent States and Russia in particular. They seem to be afraid of loosing some of their cultural autonomy in a greater Romania and of being assimilated eventually.

[Caeruleus]

Ukraine is not an option, it never was and it will never be. They already stole a chunk of our land in 1940 (southern Bessarabia AKA Budjak) and (northern Bessarabia AKA Hotin and Bukovina). At that time (1940's) the communist party of Ukraine (part of the USSR) requested the annexation of Bessarabia and Bukovina (territories that USSR took by force from Greater Romania) to Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. Moscow (the Politbureau) decided that only Bucovina, northern and southern Bessarabia will be given to Ukraine (it was the only time when russians showed some kind of mercy) the rest of the land formed the Moldovan Soviet Socialist Republic.

The ethnic groups in Rep. of Moldova (Transnistria excluded) are

Romanians (Moldovans) 78 %
Ukrainians 8.3 %
Russians 5.9 %
Gagauzes (christian turks) 4.4 %
Bulgarians 1.9 %
Others 1.5 %

So, as you can see slavs form only 16 % of Moldova's population.

Transnistria is a lost cause. It was artificially created in 1923-24 out of ukrainian land by the russian Politbureau for one reason only, and that's the disintegration of Greater Romania. Russians did that to Finland (Rep. of Karelia) and Georgia (Abhazia) too. Both Karelia and Abhazia were created in 1923-24 :) what a "coincidence" !

Here's a map to help you understand what I'm talking about.

[Bugarash]

first of all
Russia will never allow it
if Moldova and Romania try something like that,Russia will react the same way it did in South Osetia...

against
nobody wants Romania to become a state of 25 million and with a territory almost like Germany...

but Moldova is poor like hell
it will only make thing bad for Romania

[Caeruleus]

Well, Bugarash, you do have a talent for "making friends" ... and although I'm a new member I already understood that you are rather fucked up in the head :)

[Bugarash]

Im being real
Moldova is just too much complicated
Gagauzia
Transistria
poverty-poorest country in Europe
there are many moldovans who dont support that

and no Great power would support such unification
with that unification Romania would gain but it can turn out that the bad things would be more than the benefits...

[Caeruleus]

Well nobody said that it will happen tomorrow, it will take time for nostalgic soviet moldovans to die out :D (most of them are very old) or to brake the russian propaganda spell that they're under. And the eradication of the communist party is a must do. The young generation (18-25 years of age) is very pro-romanian.
Yes, Moldova is a poor country but then Romania is not rich either.
Transnistria is a o problem wich can be solved by kicking transnistrian ass out of Moldova. If they want independence let them have it. Transnistria is worthtless to Moldova, a territory that molodvan authorities do not control ... So what's the point of keeping someone who only piles debt ?

Gagauzia is not a problem, gagauzes are very submisive.

Who cares what other countries think about the Unification ? Everybody was against german unification but that didn't stop them so why should someone elses opinion stop us ?

[Bugarash]

Well nobody said that it will happen tomorrow, it will take time for nostalgic soviet moldovans to die out :D (most of them are very old) or to brake the russian propaganda spell that they're under. And the eradication of the communist party is a must do. The young generation (18-25 years of age) is very pro-romanian.
Yes, Moldova is a poor country but then Romania is not rich either.
Transnistria is a o problem wich can be solved by kicking transnistrian ass out of Moldova. If they want independence let them have it. Transnistria is worthtless to Moldova, a territory that molodvan authorities do not control ... So what's the point of keeping someone who only piles debt ?

Gagauzia is not a problem, gagauzes are very submisive.

Who cares what other countries think about the Unification ? Everybody was against german unification but that didn't stop them so why should someone elses opinion stop us ?

Romania is alot better than Moldova as economy goes...

what other countries think,it is crucial;)
you cant move without the word of the ''great powers''

Gagauz are in fact Bulgars...but turkey has its own politics toward them...which will make things iven more complicated...

the German unification was made under different circumstances and in a different period!

[morski]

Caeruleus, wasn`t most of the Moldovan industrial complex situated in Pridnestrovie :p

[Bugarash]

and Bulgaria should ask for compesation if Romania gets Moldova
just like Romania asked for compesation in the balkan war:)

North Dobruja would be enough:)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Dobruja_in_Europe_map.svg/350px-Dobruja_in_Europe_map.svg.png

[Caeruleus]

Caeruleus, wasn`t most of the Moldovan industrial complex situated in Pridnestrovie :p

yeah one that we dont use, so its all the same for Moldova

[Caeruleus]

and Bulgaria should ask for compesation if Romania gets Moldova
just like Romania asked for compesation in the balkan war:)

North Dobruja would be enough:)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Dobruja_in_Europe_map.svg/350px-Dobruja_in_Europe_map.svg.png

like I said you are a little cuckoo upstairs :) maybe a little more

[morski]

I don`t think it`s a lost cause, though. I mean what sort of a state is Transnistria capable of being- nothing more than an european bantustan.

[Bugarash]

like I said you are a little cuckoo upstairs :) maybe a little more

I just want things to be fair
and plus there is a bulgarian minority in Moldova
officialy its 2% but estimates show that about 250,000 moldovans have bulgarian origin
thats about 7% of the population!

[morski]

Come now, Bugarash, bulgarians are really well treated in Moldova. Vasile Tarlev was prime minister, they have their bulgarian schools and a university. I don`t see any problems there.

[Caeruleus]

getting rid of Transnistria would be the best geo-political and economical move made in the last 50 years. This way Moldova would free itself of russian influence, transnistrian financial blackhole (debt piling, arms trafficking and God knows what else) ... Transnistria is a lost cause believe me

[Caeruleus]

I just want things to be fair
and plus there is a bulgarian minority in Moldova
officialy its 2% but estimates show that about 250,000 moldovans have bulgarian origin
thats about 7% of the population!

having bulgarian origins and being a bulgarian ethnic are 2 different things. I have bulgarian origins but I'm not a bulgarian. Bulgarians and other minorities are very well treated in Moldova.

[morski]

I have bulgarian origins but I'm not a bulgarian

You can easily become one, though. The Bulgarian government is very generous with regard to anyone who is able to prove his Bulgarian origins- it provides grants for bulgarians from abroad to study in Bulgarian universities and most of those who do it end up with Bulgarian passports, a lot stay in Bulgaria permanently:p

[Caeruleus]

well that wouldn't help me much ... I dont speak bulgarian, all i know is " kak si' - how are you, "svale" - get out of here" and "ela na san" - come to me ... I think that every country gives passports to those who can prove their connection with the motherland :)

[morski]

Well, there are Bulgarian language courses in the first one or two years in every university, a lot of the Bessarabian bulgarians who come here to study in our universities also need aditional training in bulgarian because the dialect they speak is rather archaic.


I think that every country gives passports to those who can prove their connection with the motherland
sure:)

[d3cimat3d]

Moldovans aren't even the same as Romanians. Romanans look Balkanic and Moldovans look Slavic.

http://i53.tinypic.com/r05o95.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/2814dxi.png

^ Look how MD2 is away from Romanians and almost joining the Hungarians.

& ignore MD1, thats me :p. I'm not even Moldovan but Polako considers me one.

[Caeruleus]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Haplogroup_I.png

Here's a little something that contradicts your statement (moldovans being less balcanic than other romanians)
I'm a moldovan (romanian) and when I asked in this forum to be classified and guessified, people told that I'm a pred. Dinaroid and possibly a serb, croat or albanian.

[Zephyr]

I'm identirarian and usually against centralist states and empires.

From what I've learned, it's romanian Moldova that should be reunited with independent Moldova.

Iashi as capital, of course.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Moldova_1483_EnglishPNG.png

It's Romania which needs a reform. At best, a Greater Romania should be a 3-state federation. Moldova, Vallachia and Transylvania

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/RomaniaHistRegions.jpg

[Unurautare]

I'm identirarian and usually against centralist states and empires.

From what I've learned, it's romanian Moldova that should be reunited with independent Moldova.

Iashi as capital, of course.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Moldova_1483_EnglishPNG.png

It's Romania which needs a reform. At best, a Greater Romania should be a 3-state federation. Moldova, Vallachia and Transylvania

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/RomaniaHistRegions.jpg

I just hope it's a troll,I suppose you are the supporter of small states that hate each other. :rolleyes:
Btw it's "Romanian Moldova" that created Romania. But sure,let's join Rep.Moldova,a newly created state from a part stolen from Medieval Moldavia and then from Romania, so we can all be beaten/raped/killed/deported and replaced by Russians and be forced to learn Russian while foreign troops would be in our country illegally,like it's happening today in Rep.Moldova.

PS Federation my ...,since when are we Germany? Romania is a unitary and national state,even so lots of Romanians still live outside the borders(i.e. Rep.Moldova). You know nothing about Romanians and leave it at that.

[Siberyak]

What would be done with Transnistria?

[Unurautare]

What would be done with Transnistria?

Stalin and the soviets created it and called it the "Moldavian ASSR"(it's purpose was to make claim on Romanian lands,the same way they did with Finland and probably others): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavian_ASSR
The only moderate way I can think of(but I'm not eager to try it,imo no inch should be given away): I don't think there is much hope for it to be incorporated into Romania again since the Russians and the Soviets made sure to colonize it properly(and they are still encouraging colonists to go and live there to this day). So it's probably better,in the event of a union, if the Russians in Rep,Moldova were sent to Transnistria and the Romanians from Transnistria would be sent to live in Romanian lands,while the Budjak sub-region and North "Bukovina" should be returned to Romania.

[Caeruleus]

Zephyr you seem to be a nice guy but looks like you dont know anything about Romania, Moldova or romanians. I'm a romanian (you may call me moldovan too) from Republic of Moldova and I say that Moldova belongs to Romania. Period.

Slav Transnistrians should be killed or deported to Siberia :D

Felicitari romanilor de pretutindeni cu ziua lor nationala si sper ca niciunul dintre ei sa nu uite ce sarbatorim noi astazi :) Poate ca in viitorul nu tocmai indepartat ne vom regasi in acelasi stat.

[Unurautare]

A caricature of Rep.Moldova made by Spiridon Manoliu in 1992,20 years later and not much has changed,except from bad to worse maybe, "thanks" to the Russians(see Transnistria):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/CARICMOLD.JPG


@Caeruleus: Mulţumesc şi la mulţi ani de ziua naţională a României şi a românilor de pretutindeni. :)

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=609058&postcount=1668

[Zephyr]

[...]You know nothing about Romanians and leave it at that.

I'm not Romanian, thus I have a good excuse to be ignorant on the matter, haven't I? :)

Sorry, I'll remove all my internet armies from Romania as of tonight. Didn't mean to interfere.

We can even make some bets: what will happen first? reenactment of the short-lived Greater Romania or the reenactment of the austrian Anschluss?

[Zephyr]

Zephyr you seem to be a nice guy but looks like you dont know anything about Romania, Moldova or romanians. I'm a romanian (you may call me moldovan too) from Republic of Moldova and I say that Moldova belongs to Romania. Period.

Slav Transnistrians should be killed or deported to Siberia.

Ah, thanks for the compliment. :)

I was just sharing my opinion on this debate, in the past I've spent hours studying romanian history.

I just don't agree with centralist pan-states, rather the freedom of the people, whether are the romanians or the portuguese.

I also think killing people is not right, even if they are slav transnistrians.

[BeerBaron]

I dont see why not, Moldova is just an ungodly shit hole, they should unite with whoever.

[Siberyak]

I heard Tiraspol looks like an old soviet dump. Lenin's pictures on the buildings. Hammer and sickles everywhere.

[Unurautare]

I'm not Romanian, thus I have a good excuse to be ignorant on the matter, haven't I? :)

Sorry, I'll remove all my internet armies from Romania as of tonight. Didn't mean to interfere.

We can even make some bets: what will happen first? reenactment of the short-lived Greater Romania or the reenactment of the austrian Anschluss?

It's no problem being ignorant,you just overdid it. :D Didn't mean to go ballistic about it,but I have a good reason to be bitchy because of the history of the Romanian states and the current situation in Rep.Moldova. The only ones to speak of fragmentation and/or federations are the foreign ultra-liberals and the enemies of Romanians. I don't support EU either but Romania is for Romanians,and minorities here probably have more rights than in the West and they are also represented in Parliament by law.
"Greater Romania" still had Romanian population just outside the borders,it was "Greater" just at it's borders,but if anything I think Rep.Moldova has a better chance of joining Romania than Austria has of joining Germany for the following reasons: the same identity,most Romanians there feel Romanian(this was also seen during the Chişinău revolts ~2-3 years ago);the same language(both written and spoken),as opposed to Austria - Federal Germany(they differ a lot in local dialects),mostly the same history as opposed to Austria who has hardly been part of Germany or any state that is currently part of Germany; the economic situation of Rep.Moldova would rather favor the union,if it was rich then maybe they wouldn't be so keen on joining; the political situation: because of the Russian backed communist party,who sabotaged Rep.Moldova's progress and development for years and years, and because of the Russian army stationed in Transnistria(not to mention past history) I wouldn't expect many would favor an Eastern approach unless they are Slavs and/or die-hard commie fanatics.

[Zephyr]

I was being ironic. I know something about Romania. If not, I would just embody the usual Transylvania je Hungarija stuff. You shouldn't assume people are all the same.

In all honesty, centralist unitarian states never work well, they eventually crush internal diversity like France did. A large country is naturally made up of more than one identity. Federation shouldn't mean any sort of dissolution. Actually it would discourage breakaways.

[arcticwolf]

A question to my Romanian brothers, what is the main issue or issues that prevent Romania and Moldova from uniting? It seems natural that both countries which share so much would tend to come together. Excuse my ignorance brothers.

[Unurautare]

A question to my Romanian brothers, what is the main issue or issues that prevent Romania and Moldova from uniting? It seems natural that both countries which share so much would tend to come together. Excuse my ignorance brothers.

The politics of Great Powers,as usual. Both Romania and Rep.Moldova are in important strategic areas. If anybody is interested I suggest these articles on Romania and Rep.Moldova:

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20101115_geopolitical_journey_part_3_romania

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20101118_geopolitical_journey_part_4_moldova

The only addition I'd make is to the part if the Rep.Moldova article where it refers to the language,it's not 100% accurate: the Russians and the Soviets 'encouraged' "Moldovan" as a separate identity from Romania,including the language(that is written and spoken the same,as I said and there is no ISO for "Moldovan",simply because it's the same as Romanian). The only difference is that some people in Rep.Moldova speak Romanian with Russian accent,because they use Russian in everyday life.


I was being ironic. I know something about Romania. If not, I would just embody the usual Transylvania je Hungarija stuff. You shouldn't assume people are all the same.

In all honesty, centralist unitarian states never work well, they eventually crush internal diversity like France did. A large country is naturally made up of more than one identity. Federation shouldn't mean any sort of dissolution. Actually it would discourage breakaways.

A federation would only encourage separate identities and breakaways,see Yugoslavia/"The Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes" and "Czechoslovakia".

[morski]

I'm strongly in favor of Romania and Moldova reuniting. I hate FYROM like experiments in ethno-engineering.:mad:

[Zephyr]

A federation would only encourage separate identities and breakaways,see Yugoslavia/"The Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes" and "Czechoslovakia".

That is not correct. Those countries/states were not federations of identities, rather an artificial and difficult union of different nations, with different cultures, religions and languages. Deemed to fail since the beginning like Belgium.

The german model works, the swiss model is a model for every country. Don't waste chances.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Moldova has a much older national identity than Romania. It also appeared as a state with several centuries before Romania, so I believe it would be unnatural for them to unite. I also don't think Romania could handle such a big new territory under its administration, since they could barely organize a functioning country since the union with Transylvania in 1918. Moldova is a way too big hat for Romania, and many Romanians I talked with think the same.

[Caeruleus]

Ah, thanks for the compliment. :)

I was just sharing my opinion on this debate, in the past I've spent hours studying romanian history.

I just don't agree with centralist pan-states, rather the freedom of the people, whether are the romanians or the portuguese.

I also think killing people is not right, even if they are slav transnistrians.

Well I obviously exagerated when I said that you dont know anything about Romania. You are a well read individual (and I'm not saying this just to smooth things over) but you have an anti-unionist view which in opinion is a little bit odd. Romania and Moldova (Bessarabia) have been together twice in their history. The first man to unite all romanian lands was Michael the Brave (1600) that was a forcible unification and I can understand if someone (especially a foreigner) objects to that kind of union. The second time romanian/moldovan people of Bessarabia voted in favour of the union, on the 9th of april 1918 Sfatul Tarii (the bessarabian parliament) decided with 86 votes for, 3 against and 36 abstaining, for union with the Kingdom of Romania. The interwar period was probably the greatest time in the history of my nation (politically, economically, culturally) to bad that the whole thing ended the way it did.

[Zephyr]

Moldova has a much older national identity than Romania. It also appeared as a state with several centuries before Romania, so I believe it would be unnatural for them to unite. I also don't think Romania could handle such a big new territory under its administration, since they could barely organize a functioning country since the union with Transylvania in 1918. Moldova is a way too big hat for Romania, and many Romanians I talked with think the same.

Yet you don't think Transylvania would become a big hat for Hungary, do you? :D and Slovakia... and Voivodina... and Croatia...

I don't think so. If Romania can handle half of Moldova why wouldn't handle the rest? once communist nostalgia dies, it will become easy, as long as they leave the Transnistrian nightmare alone.

[Zephyr]

Well I obviously exagerated when I said that you dont know anything about Romania. You are a well read individual (and I'm not saying this just to smooth things over) but you have an anti-unionist view which in opinion is a little bit odd.

Wrong :) I'm even of the opinion that Romania should use Transnistria and Nistru navigation rights to negotiate the reacquisition of Bugeac from Ukraine.

However that would unlikely happen, since Cetatea Alba was completely cleansed. But, you never know.

[Unurautare]

That is not correct. Those countries/states were not federations of identities, rather an artificial and difficult union of different nations, with different cultures, religions and languages. Deemed to fail since the beginning like Belgium.

The german model works, the swiss model is a model for every country. Don't waste chances.

Romania is not a German country,get over it,we are neither big in size nor full of major ethno-diversity to ever justify the formation of a "Germany","Belgium" or a "Switzerland"(a failed state that never produced anything useful to humanity). If something Nazi Germany had the right idea about what to do with the "federation", and they became the most advanced military and technological country in Europe and the world at their time.
I know this "model": creating a federation,then creating autonomous regions,then full out "independence" followed by 100% foreign dominance,thanks but no thanks. If we ever become an empire the federal system might be necessary to manage territories the size of Romania or larger,until then it's nothing good and not in the character of the Romanian people.

[Caeruleus]

Moldova has a much older national identity than Romania. It also appeared as a state with several centuries before Romania, so I believe it would be unnatural for them to unite. I also don't think Romania could handle such a big new territory under its administration, since they could barely organize a functioning country since the union with Transylvania in 1918. Moldova is a way too big hat for Romania, and many Romanians I talked with think the same.

get the fuck out of here you mongoloid pony rider ... since when the hungies have a say in romanian-moldovan business !? your mule riding ass probably doesnt know or doesnt want to admitt the fact that Romania had one of the best economies of the interwar period. Moldova is a way too big hat for Romania !? :laugh2: you mongoloids are hopeless

"The land reform passed by Sfatul Ţării in 1918-1919 resulted in the rise of a middle class as the rural population of the region represented 80%. Together with peace and favorable economic circumstances, it produced a small economic boom, which allowed the region to catch up technologically with the rest of Europe. The majority of the political leadership of Bessarabia in 1918 supported lawful land reform instead of the expropriation of property promoted by the pro-Soviet elements. Land reform was more appealing to the local farmers, and was at least partly responsible for the consent the peasantry gave to the intelligentsia's plans for building a unified state for all Romanians.[citation needed] The literacy rate grew to over 40% by 1930"

those "many romanians" that you talk about are the same people that prefer mongoloids over their countrymen !? :laugh2: take your hungarian sorry ass out of romanian threads you pathetic wanker :)

[Unurautare]

@Caeruleus: Don't reply to the mongol trolls,not on this thread. He can talk to himself for all I care.

[Caeruleus]

Wrong :) I'm even of the opinion that Romania should use Transnistria and Nistru navigation rights to negotiate the reacquisition of Bugeac from Ukraine.

However that would unlikely happen, since Cetatea Alba was completely cleansed. But, you never know.

I dont think thats possible either ... Romania and Moldova could use Transnistria in a land exchange with Ukraine (we give them Prednistrovia and they give us the Reni rayon + Bucovina territories that are still inhabited by romanians)

Thats Bukovina and its ethnic composition

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/Cvethnic1980.png

Thats Budjak and its ethnic composition

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Bugeac-etnic.png

[Zephyr]

Will Russia try to interfere with this?

[Caeruleus]

Will Russia try to interfere with this?

Absolutely ... when did Russia not interfered !? to be honest its a bit of a SF scenario :) but we are allowed to dream or are we not !? :)

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Yet you don't think Transylvania would become a big hat for Hungary, do you? :D and Slovakia... and Voivodina... and Croatia...

I don't think so. If Romania can handle half of Moldova why wouldn't handle the rest? once communist nostalgia dies, it will become easy, as long as they leave the Transnistrian nightmare alone.

Felvidék (Upper Hungary) is in quite good shape, only Transylvania and Délvidék (Lower Hungary) needs more resources to be brought on the same level as truncated Hungary. But we are willing to make the sacrifices to reintegrate these lands into one Hungarian state. Before Trianon all these lands were flourishing, but Romanian and Serbian rule brought them way down. Only the Slovaks (with large help from the Czechs) have merits to keep the land they took from us on the same level as truncated Hungary.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

get the fuck out of here you mongoloid pony rider ... since when the hungies have a say in romanian-moldovan business !? your mule riding ass probably doesnt know or doesnt want to admitt the fact that Romania had one of the best economies of the interwar period. Moldova is a way too big hat for Romania !? :laugh2: you mongoloids are hopeless

"The land reform passed by Sfatul Ţării in 1918-1919 resulted in the rise of a middle class as the rural population of the region represented 80%. Together with peace and favorable economic circumstances, it produced a small economic boom, which allowed the region to catch up technologically with the rest of Europe. The majority of the political leadership of Bessarabia in 1918 supported lawful land reform instead of the expropriation of property promoted by the pro-Soviet elements. Land reform was more appealing to the local farmers, and was at least partly responsible for the consent the peasantry gave to the intelligentsia's plans for building a unified state for all Romanians.[citation needed] The literacy rate grew to over 40% by 1930"

those "many romanians" that you talk about are the same people that prefer mongoloids over their countrymen !? :laugh2: take your hungarian sorry ass out of romanian threads you pathetic wanker :)

The official Moldovan census shows clearly that the population of Moldova consider themselves in majority as Moldovans (76%), while only 2% declared themselves as Romanian ;). It is obvious that Moldovans are aware of their own Moldovan identity, and it comes first to the Romanian identity trying to be forced on them by Romanian propaganda.

[Volkodav]

The official Moldovan census shows clearly that the population of Moldova consider themselves in majority as Moldovans (76%), while only 2% declared themselves as Romanian ;). It is obvious that Moldovans are aware of their own Moldovan identity, and it comes first to the Romanian identity trying to be forced on them by Romanian propaganda.

All Moldavians are Romenians, but not all Romenians are Moldavian, and you my dear sir., you're a fuckin moron, you're an idiot.




S4FyZwAFZII

[Zephyr]

In any moment of history did the hungarian population surpassed the romanian in Transylvania?

[oyster]

I would strongly support a Greater Moldova but I would also support a Greater Romania but this ONLY in the case Moldovans from the Republic would decide like >80% to unite. It's up to the locals to decide, always, in my opinion. In the same idea, if Banat wants independence and votes >80%, so be it... :) Let the people decide for themselves.

[Daos]

In any moment of history did the hungarian population surpassed the romanian in Transylvania?

I would say no, but there's no way of knowing... Anyway, have a look here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Transylvania#Historical_population).

[Sagitta Hungarica]

In any moment of history did the hungarian population surpassed the romanian in Transylvania?

Probably the Vlachs started to outgrow the Hungarians after the end of the Hunyadi (Corvin) rule over the Kingdom of Hungary, the beginning of the 16th century. It is very difficult to give clear data, from lack of serious census in those times, and because people weren't counted after ethnicity, but by their religion.

[Unurautare]

Who cares? Pannonia next. :ranger:

[Caeruleus]

I would strongly support a Greater Moldova but I would also support a Greater Romania but this ONLY in the case Moldovans from the Republic would decide like >80% to unite. It's up to the locals to decide, always, in my opinion. In the same idea, if Banat wants independence and votes >80%, so be it... :) Let the people decide for themselves.

75 % is more than enough, and I believe there will be a time when those from the Republic will vote for the union (maybe sooner than we think) most of them are romanian citizens anyway so ... all hail Greater Romania :)

[Arrow Cross]

In any moment of history did the hungarian population surpassed the romanian in Transylvania?
The first known documented mention of Romanians in Transylvania dates to the XIIIth Century. The arrivers were mostly shepherds settling in more mountainous areas, therefore, they were less devastated in the Turkish Wars. The war made the Kingdom of Hungary a constant buffer zone for the most massive campaigns and skirmishes in Europe for 150 years.

Following its end, the Habsburg administration dealt with the severe nationwide depopulation (from circa 4 million subjects in the Kingdom of Hungary ~1500 to roughly 2 million by 1700) by inviting Vlachs from Wallachia, Germans from the west, Serbs fleeing Ottoman oppression, etc., luring them in with relatively favourable terms of serfdom at the time.

The so-called "Three Nations of Transylvania" (which still form its coat of arms) were the Magyars, Szeklers and Saxons. Vlachs were excluded simply because they weren't yet there when the traditional socio-political foundations of medieval Transylvania were laid.

[Unurautare]

The first known documented mention of Romanians in Transylvania dates to the XIIIth Century. The arrivers were mostly shepherds settling in more mountainous areas, therefore, they were less devastated in the Turkish Wars. The war made the Kingdom of Hungary a constant buffer zone for the most massive campaigns and skirmishes in Europe for 150 years.

Following its end, the Habsburg administration dealt with the severe nationwide depopulation (from circa 4 million subjects in the Kingdom of Hungary ~1500 to roughly 2 million by 1700) by inviting Vlachs from Wallachia, Germans from the west, Serbs fleeing Ottoman oppression, etc., luring them in with relatively favourable terms of serfdom at the time.

The so-called "Three Nations of Transylvania" (which still form its coat of arms) were the Magyars, Szeklers and Saxons. Vlachs were excluded simply because they weren't yet there when the traditional socio-political foundations of medieval Transylvania were laid.

Nope,Romanians were suppressed,as natives, by the conquerors. If we were colonists we would have gotten rights and incentives,like the German settlers got,but instead:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unio_Trium_Nationum


Unio Trium Nationum (Latin for "Union of the Three Nations" was a pact of mutual aid formed in 1438 by three Estates of Transylvania: the (largely Hungarian) nobility, the Saxon (i.e. German) burghers, and the free Szeklers.[citation needed] It marks the irrevocable dissolution of the Estate of the Vlachs (i.e. Romanians) of Transylvania.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejmer Teuton fortified area with church that has Romanian elements... cca. 1212–1213,there are many such places in Transylvania.

Ofc let's not forget when the Romanians in Transylvania asked for equal rights and they received rejection + prison:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplex_Libellus_Valachorum

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transylvanian_Memorandum


The Transylvanian Memorandum was a petition sent in 1892 by the leaders of the Romanians of Transylvania to the Austro-Hungarian Emperor-King Franz Joseph, asking for equal ethnic rights with the Hungarians, and demanding an end to persecutions and Magyarization attempts.


Franz Josef, without reading it, forwarded the memorandum to Budapest parliament, which, also without reading it, sent it back to the head of delegation. After printing and spreading the document the authors were charged with incitement committed through the press and most of them sentenced to prison ranging from two months to five years. Although in 1895 they were freed by royal amnesty, the outcome contributed to a decrease in loyalism to the Crown, with many leaders of the PNR turning towards the goal of union of Transylvania with Romania.

Isn't it interesting that both Romanians and Saxons voted for the union with Romania? I wonder why? :rolleyes:

[Zephyr]

The first known documented mention of Romanians in Transylvania dates to the XIIIth Century. The arrivers were mostly shepherds settling in more mountainous areas, therefore, they were less devastated in the Turkish Wars.

What happen to the Dacians that Romans fought for decades?

[Sagitta Hungarica]

What happen to the Dacians that Romans fought for decades?

According to Herodotus "all Dacian men were killed by the Romans" (exaggerating obviously). Some of them were assimilated by Romans, some of them remained outside the influence of the Roman Empire, the Free Dacians. In 271 the Roman emperor Aurelianus commanded the general withdrawal from Dacia, this meant the whole population. It is plausible that this order wasn't followed by the entire population of Dacia, but the numbers who stayed couldn't have been too big. The successive migrations in the coming centuries erased any trace of Roman rule in the territory we today call Transylvania, and this fact is attested by lack of surviving Roman settlements. Basically civilization ceased to exist on this territory until the Magyars arrived and started building new settlements. According to some theories there is the possibility that Dacians might've been related to proto-Magyars, since both could originate from the vast Scythian people.

[Zephyr]

According to Herodotus "all Dacian men were killed by the Romans" (exaggerating obviously). Some of them were assimilated by Romans, some of them remained outside the influence of the Roman Empire, the Free Dacians. In 271 the Roman emperor Aurelianus commanded the general withdrawal from Dacia, this meant the whole population. It is plausible that this order wasn't followed by the entire population of Dacia, but the numbers who stayed couldn't have been too big. The successive migrations in the coming centuries erased any trace of Roman rule in the territory we today call Transylvania, and this fact is attested by lack of surviving Roman settlements. Basically civilization ceased to exist on this territory until the Magyars arrived and started building new settlements. According to some theories there is the possibility that Dacians might've been related to proto-Magyars, since both could originate from the vast Scythian people.

I'm led to believe that populations don't change dramatically. So, I think that Magyars didn't fill a void, but rather dominated and "magyarized" the existing population. This was what happened all over the Balkans with general slavic newcomers.

Even the so much hated Ottomans are the continuation of the anatolian populations. Though with some strong external assorted input, and despite you can generally tell them from Greeks, Turks from Turkey look closer to their neighbours than to any other turkic tribe.

Back to the transylvanian subject, the question is similar to so many others. For example some german irredentists still claim the Ostland. In fact slavs settled all over the germanic lands when the latter were busy moving west.

When Germans returned their attentions to the east, they found a totally new slavicized civilization as far as Bavaria. Berlin, the mighty jewel of the 3rd Reich was initially a slavic settlement of fishermen (Bralin). Many town names you take for granted as germanic were slavic settlements (-au, -az, -itz).

Of course there will always be grudge and autism from any side. Poles call those lands "recovered territories", but in fact they never got beyond Poznan. The former slavs inhabiting Danzig were not polish, they were the Kashubians. Other different slavs so to speak.

Most of the millions of germans expelled after 1945 were germanized slavs.

And so on. Europe is complex.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

I'm led to believe that populations don't change dramatically. So, I think that Magyars didn't fill a void, but rather dominated and "magyarized" the existing population. This was what happened all over the Balkans with general slavic newcomers.

Even the so much hated Ottomans are the continuation of the anatolian populations. Though with some strong external assorted input, and despite you can generally tell them from Greeks, Turks from Turkey look closer to their neighbours than to any other turkic tribe.

Back to the transylvanian subject, the question is similar to so many others. For example some german irredentists still claim the Ostland. In fact slavs settled all over the germanic lands when the latter were busy moving west.

When Germans returned their attentions to the east, they found a totally new slavicized civilization as far as Bavaria. Berlin, the mighty jewel of the 3rd Reich was initially a slavic settlement of fishermen (Bralin). Many town names you take for granted as germanic were slavic settlements (-au, -az, -itz).

Of course there will always be grudge and autism from any side. Poles call those lands "recovered territories", but in fact they never got beyond Poznan. The former slavs inhabiting Danzig were not polish, they were the Kashubians. Other different slavs so to speak.

Most of the millions of germans expelled after 1945 were germanized slavs.

And so on. Europe is complex.

You weren't very attentive to what I posted. Magyars found almost nothing when they arrived in the land which is called Transylvania. There were almost no settlements, and we know where settlements don't exist, humans don't exist. Actually the scarce population who lived here welcomed the Magyars, and addressed to them in their language, according to early Magyars chronicles, which in conclusion means that a similar population to the Magyars was already living here, and they easily assimilated into the Magyars. These are probably the Székelys (Szeklers), who according to their tradition are descendants of the Huns. They still are majority in a large aria in Eastern Transylvania. The case what you presented cannot be compared to this case. The historical circumstances are very different. I like both Poles and Germans, so I believe a peaceful compromise should be reached regarding Eastern Prussia.

[Unurautare]

You weren't very attentive to what I posted. Magyars found almost nothing when they arrived in the land which is called Transylvania. There were almost no settlements, and we know where settlements don't exist, humans don't exist. Actually the scarce population who lived here welcomed the Magyars, and addressed to them in their language, according to early Magyars chronicles, which in conclusion means that a similar population to the Magyars was already living here, and they easily assimilated into the Magyars. These are probably the Székelys (Szeklers), who according to their tradition are descendants of the Huns. They still are majority in a large aria in Eastern Transylvania. The case what you presented cannot be compared to this case. The historical circumstances are very different. I like both Poles and Germans, so I believe a peaceful compromise should be reached regarding Eastern Prussia.

Read your own Hungarian chronicles,it says they found Slavs and Romanians in Panonnia and Transylvania. I believe Hungary should be divided amongst the neighbors,no point in keeping a non-European country in central Europe,especially one that has crazy butthurts like you.

[Zephyr]

Well, I won't take part in your rivalries, I like both hungarian and romanian people and appreciate knowing your history. Infights will only benefit the enemies of Europe.

[HungAryan]

Read your own Hungarian chronicles,it says they found Slavs and Romanians in Panonnia and Transylvania. I believe Hungary should be divided amongst the neighbors,no point in keeping a non-European country in central Europe,especially one that has crazy butthurts like you.

Why not divide Romania between Hungary, Bulgaria and Ukraine instead? http://mmg-jk3.de/images/smileys/:trollface:.gif

[Unurautare]

Well, I won't take part in your rivalries, I like both hungarian and romanian people. Infights will only benefit the enemies of Europe.

Hungarians are the enemies of Europe,they even supported Kosovo by sending politicians there when they declared "independence",they probably do the same for every breakaway region too. Not to mention their friendship with Turks and whatnot,I posted pictures of it before,how ordinary people and officials were befriending Turkish officials and Turkish people.

http://erdely.ma/uploaded/images/6532394_nagy.jpg

http://erdely.ma/uploaded/images/7018633_nagy.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5027/5661446895_a23a553090.jpg

[HungAryan]

Hungarians are the enemies of Europe,they even supported Kosovo by sending politicians there when they declared "independence",they probably do the same for every breakaway region too. Not to mention their friendship with Turks and whatnot,I posted pictures of it before,how ordinary people and officials were befriending Turkish officials and Turkish people.

http://erdely.ma/uploaded/images/6532394_nagy.jpg

http://erdely.ma/uploaded/images/7018633_nagy.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5027/5661446895_a23a553090.jpg

Oh really?

Look who is talking!


MONGOLS HAND-IN-HAND!
http://cdn.timeoutnewyork.com/sites/timeoutnewyork.com/files/imagecache/timeout_492x330/827.fi_.autobiographyofnicolerev827.jpg

RXIfVok6Li8

[Unurautare]

Oh really?

Look who is talking!


MONGOLS HAND-IN-HAND!
http://cdn.timeoutnewyork.com/sites/timeoutnewyork.com/files/imagecache/timeout_492x330/827.fi_.autobiographyofnicolerev827.jpg

RXIfVok6Li8

That's communist 'cooperation' and I don't remember North Koreans or Chinese invading Europe and kidnapping children or enslaving Europeans... Turkishfags.

[HungAryan]

That's communist 'cooperation' and I don't remember North Koreans or Chinese invading Europe and kidnapping children or enslaving Europeans... Turkishfags.

Hungarians suffered under Turkish yoke more than your Romanians will ever do.
Hungary had to suffer over 150 years under the misery of Ottoman rule, while Wallachia and Moldova were merely vassals of the Ottoman Empire.
The Ottoman invasion was the main reason why Hungarians became a minority in their own country (Greater Hungary).
No sane Hungarian loves Turks. Only liberals do, or mislead Turanist idiots.

[Unurautare]

Hungarians suffered under Turkish yoke more than your Romanians will ever do.
Hungary had to suffer over 150 years under the misery of Ottoman rule, while Wallachia and Moldova were merely vassals of the Ottoman Empire.
The Ottoman invasion was the main reason why Hungarians became a minority in their own country (Greater Hungary).
No sane Hungarian loves Turks. Only liberals do, or mislead Turanist idiots.

Yes,my point exactly,only anti-Europeans would befriend Turks... Corvin and Iancu would be rolling in their graves. :|

[HungAryan]

Yes,my point exactly,only anti-Europeans would befriend Turks... Corvin and Iancu would be rolling in their graves. :|

You mean János Hunyadi and King Mátyás (Mathias)?
Actually, EVERY SINGLE HUNGARIAN who lived before 1945 would be rolling in their graves.

The Hungarians between 1453 and 1526 gave their lives away to expel those invaders, and the fact that their modern-day descendants are befriending those mongrels is extremely disappointing.

[Volkodav]

I just dont understand how some people dare to write here, this is a subject ONLY FOR MOLDOVANS , and we are ONLY TWO on this forum. All others just mind your own bussines, stay away from our politic and our fellings.