Scientist Anatole Klyosov destroyed the Pan-Turanist myth

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I send a e-mail to scientist Klyosov:

http://i67.tinypic.com/deo7yh.png

Theory that Turkic R1a is imported to all others (by rapings) is big bullshit.

So reallity is that R1a-M458 and R1a-Z280 in reallity don't have Turkic heritage.

Deal with it dear Pan-Turanids.

[Ülev]

Gök babamız bize yardım et bizi koru, doğru yolu tekrar bütün ırkımıza (R1) göster.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Gök babamız bize yardım et bizi koru, doğru yolu tekrar bütün ırkımıza (R1) göster.

Tengri Sky God can't help them now in their Steppe mythology :D

[Vlatko Vukovic]

al-bumpo

[Ülev]

....

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Bmp

[Proto-Shaman]

thanks for enlightenment Vlatko, my Slavic friend, from this day on I am not a Turanist anymore :)

[Vlatko Vukovic]

thanks for enlightenment Vlatko, my Slavic friend, from this day on I am not a Turanist anymore :)

It is good if it is a truth :D

[RN97]

That is a wise man that sadly, no one will listen too or understand even.

[Arduti]

Yes, he favors admix and/or culture as one's primary identifier instead of tribe (haplogroup).
His is only one perspective though.

An interesting perspective from a scientist. Admix- and culture-narratives are usually favored by anthropologists.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

That is a wise man that sadly, no one will listen too or understand even.

He is really serious scientist, indeed.

I watched some works of him.

Btw. I was surprised when he answered to me. I also send to him question about original R, but didn't get answer from him yet.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Yes, he favors admix and/or culture as one's primary identifier instead of tribe (haplogroup).
His is only one perspective though.

An interesting perspective from a scientist. Admix- and culture-narratives are usually favored by anthropologists.

Yeah. But Turkic members from TA based their story on discovers by mr. Klyosov. So i decided to ask him personally about R1a, and surprisely i get the answer :)

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Who is interested, here is answer for original R = It is unknown officially.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2zf0b4j.png

[RN97]

Who is interested, here is answer for original R = It is unknown officially.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2zf0b4j.png

damn. Q as well? I guess we wuz kangz n' sheeit innit?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

damn. Q as well? I guess we wuz kangz n' sheeit innit?

That is a his theory. It is not proven.

But why is impossible that Q was more Caucasoid in ancient times?

Q could be influenced by C and later become Mongoloid, as it is today.

[RN97]

That is a his theory. It is not proven.

But why is impossible that Q was more Caucasoid in ancient times?

Q could be influenced by C and later become Mongoloid, as it is today.

IDK, but today it seems to be related to mong-like people.
I'm really bad at haplogroups, so don't even mind me really, but it just seems amazing that he thinks that a haplogroup that is widespread among mongoloids today was originated from Caucasoids.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

IDK, but today it seems to be related to mong-like people.
I'm really bad at haplogroups, so don't even mind me really, but it just seems amazing that he thinks that a haplogroup that is widespread among mongoloids today was originated from Caucasoids.

They went into a Tungid area and could be influenced by them. Of course those are just guessings not a proven fact. Becouse in reallity we dont know how the descedants of K (Q and R) really look like.

Those poeple who are post some pictures of proto Q carriers or proto R carriers are just guessings.

It seems that really we dont have evidence about it.

[Kamal900]

Soo..basically, Turkic peoples emerged from the combination between this Iranian man:
https://photos.smugmug.com/Middle-East/Iran-Travel-Photos/Iran-Travel/i-6wpWzR2/0/e03a6638/O/6389601163_d6a9b013e7_o.jpg

And this Mongoloid woman:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/gallery/images/47424/1_D6161a_Girl_in_Trad._Dress._Mongolia.jpg

Which gave rise to these people:
http://bestmuslim.com/primages/1319832512.jpg

What a strange domino effect.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Soo..basically, Turkic peoples emerged from the combination between this Iranian man:
https://photos.smugmug.com/Middle-East/Iran-Travel-Photos/Iran-Travel/i-6wpWzR2/0/e03a6638/O/6389601163_d6a9b013e7_o.jpg

And this Mongoloid woman:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/gallery/images/47424/1_D6161a_Girl_in_Trad._Dress._Mongolia.jpg

Which gave rise to these people:
http://bestmuslim.com/primages/1319832512.jpg

What a strange domino effect.

Well, he didnt say that xD but anyways

[Turkminator]

Where does he refute the Turkish claim to the haplogroup R1a as a proto-Turkish haplogroup? He himself confirms that the haplogroup R1a belong together with the haplogroup R1b etc to Proto Turks.

We expects a minimum of prior knowledge in such discussions in order to present a point of view here.

Everyone should know that haplogroups represent the tribes of Homo Sapiens, these can be equated badly with modern humans. For the genetic separation of peoples, only the genetic singularity is decisive. If you find mutations in a human group, which are particularly common here, compared to other groups, you will be separated as a group. And what many do not understand here is that neither the political, the history nor the ethnic definition of this group matter.

As the Tatar-Russian scientist quite rightly asserted; both R1a and R1b are undeniably part of the Proto-Turks.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Where does he refute the Turkish claim to the haplogroup R1a as a proto-Turkish haplogroup? He himself confirms that the haplogroup R1a belong together with the haplogroup R1b etc to Proto Turks.

We expects a minimum of prior knowledge in such discussions in order to present a point of view here.

Everyone should know that haplogroups represent the tribes of Homo Sapiens, these can be equated badly with modern humans. For the genetic separation of peoples, only the genetic singularity is decisive. If you find mutations in a human group, which are particularly common here, compared to other groups, you will be separated as a group. And what many do not understand here is that neither the political, the history nor the ethnic definition of this group matter.

As the Tatar-Russian scientist quite rightly asserted; both R1a and R1b are undeniably part of the Proto-Turks.

He refute that R1a is ONLY Turkic haplogroup, as Turkic members spreaded here.

You personally said to me that R1a-M458 (who carry Slavs) are of Turkic origin, and he refute that. Also Turkish members claimed that R1a-Z280 is not Balto-Slavic but Finno-Ugric and that Turkics & Finno-Ugrics imported R1a to all other peoples.

And mr. Klyosov refute that theory, and said that R1a-M458 and R1a-Z280 are Proto-Slavic haplogroups without any other people influence in that.

While R1a-Z93 is proto-Turkic.

[Veslan]

damn. Q as well? I guess we wuz kangz n' sheeit innit?

We don't know if the haplogroup Q developed before Mongoloid-Caucasoid division or not.

[Proto-Shaman]

While R1a-Z92 is proto-Turkic.

Z92 is Baltic, not Turkic. Its under Z283. A totally different subclade, nothing to do with Turkics.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Z92 is Baltic, not Turkic. Its under Z283. A totally different subclade, nothing to do with Turkics.

my bad Z93. I missed a number when typing.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

bump

[Aenar]

Panturanists are defeated, and they avoid this thread.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Panturanists are defeated, and they avoid this thread.

Their leader admit it :D

But puppets still avoid.

[Ülev]

I change my usernames frequently (until Loki forbid), same with R1a, they were Malta Boys, maybe Sarmatians, Turkic (not Turkish) and will ends with Martians
There is a dispute over the name rather than psychical features and genes
Proud Africans from Mozambique use Portuguese language, but still have their gene pool, but "Portugese speaking" community is bigger outside Portugal
Same with others, Slavic language can belong to I2a1 people and R1a can be only users of that language

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I change my usernames frequently (until Loki forbid), same with R1a, they were Malta Boys, maybe Sarmatians, Turkic (not Turkish) and will ends with Martians
There is a dispute over the name rather than psychical features and genes
Proud Africans from Mozambique use Portuguese language, but still have their gene pool, but "Portugese speaking" community is bigger outside Portugal
Same with others, Slavic language can belong to I2a1 people and R1a can be only users of that language

Also Slavic language can belong to R1a-M458, why not (when it is proven that is mainly Slavic haplogroup) ?

[Aenar]

Also Slavic language can belong to R1a-M458, why not (when it is proven that is mainly Slavic haplogroup) ?

Slavic language originated from holders of R1a without any doubt, Slavic is IE and R1a is IE haplogroup.

Holders of I2a were assimilatted by R1a in eastern Europe and they adopted language of R1a population (invaders ?), original language of I2a population was paleo-European, Basque language is probably original language of some I2 population.

[Rethel]

Yes, he favors admix and/or culture as one's primary identifier instead of tribe (haplogroup).

:smilie_liebe9:


http://i65.tinypic.com/2zf0b4j.png

:picard1:


But why is impossible that Q was more Caucasoid in ancient times?

Firstly answer to yourself who was amerindian.
Then, you will not ask such question.


We don't know if the haplogroup Q developed before Mongoloid-Caucasoid division or not.

All hgs developed (partially) before any racial division,
but when they became independent, then ALL became
different (if they were not since the begining).

[Vlatko Vukovic]

:smilie_liebe9:



:picard1:



Firstly answer to yourself who was amerindian.
Then, you will not ask such question.



All hgs developed (partially) before any racial division,
but when they became independent, then ALL became
different (if they were not since the begining).

Yeah, but Q is sister of R.

[Rethel]

Yeah, but Q is sister of R.

Brother, not sister. :picard1:

And what? Every hg is related to another, but
it doesn;t mean, that all hgs are of one race.

Aren't, and this is the point.