Helsinki Drops Muslim Women-Only Pool Sessions

[Eldritch]

http://yle.fi/ecepic/archive/00330/uinti_uima-allas_li_330799b.jpg

The City of Helsinki will stop reserving special hours for Muslim women to use the public pool in Jakomäki. In the future, the timeslot for Muslim ladies will be open to all women.

Other swimmers had criticised the practice, according to Teemu Raatikainen, who manages the pool.

Previously, the Jakomäki swimming hall blocked off Saturday mornings specifically for Muslim women. The women's session followed a swimming class for Muslim girls.

The Jakomäki pool reopened on Wednesday after being closed for renovation. From now on, the pool will be open to all women—and off-limits to men—on Tuesday evenings.

The refurbished facility boasts new pool cleaning technology in addition to updated washrooms and saunas.

Link. (http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2011/01/helsinki_drops_muslim_women-only_pool_sessions_2266901.html)

Typical YLE disinformation this is. People were enraged about the Muslim women only shifts in the swimming hall, that's true, but they weren't ever expressly only for Muslims. It's only ever been "immigrant women only".

Supposedly meaning, as our hero JH-a put it, that on Saturdays the Jakomäki public swimming hall welcomed Swedish, Nigerian, French, Somali, Japanese, Estonian, Saudi Arabian and American women, but not Finnish ones. Although I very much doubt that Sally would have been allowed entry.

So now supposedly people's complaints have been addressed, by saying that they have ben addressed. And things will continue as normal. :coffee:

[Sword of the Morning]

This dynamic has been in play for quite some time now in the United States.

Muslim culture is so obviously antithetical to that of Europeans that they as a group have become an acceptable target for statements that, in other contexts, would be ridiculed as "xenophobic" or--gods forbid!--"racist". In this way, criticism of Muslims acts as something of a pressure-release valve for the built-up resentment of the host population.

The problem is, of course, that Muslims are far from the only threat to the continuity of the European peoples. For example, criticism of Negroes is verboten; yet their presence poses a comparable cultural threat and an infinitely greater racial threat to European existence (IMO).

My question to you, Eldritch, is this: Will people standing up to Muslim demands spark the fire of nationalism/preservationism further down the road, or will it instead bring about a school of thought similar to that of Neo-Conservatives in the USA, whereby any immigrant from the hellpits of the Third World can become a Finn, so long as he "assimilates" and isn't some kind of a "terrorist" (whatever that means :coffee:)?

[Sunray]

I certainly went from understanding the Islamic cultural threat first to the greater cultural threat to our racial tragedy.

I distinctly remember saying a few years ago that the fact that 50% of Britain-dwelling Afro-Caribbean men mate outside there race was good for integration, and therefore good.

If you can think like that, that integration is good as opposed to multiculturalism, then a few facts about genetics and a bit of an open-mind will take you the rest of the way.

[Debaser11]

Imagine that. Finland is no longer showing a racial preference for aliens regarding pooltime. (Or maybe they are still?) The insanity of this "controversy" sums up our times.

And Sunray, I think I had a similiar evolution in my own thought within the past few years. I can remember watching Jared Diamond's television special which highlighted his book, Guns, Germs, and Steel. It was actually that program (which my then liberal mind assumed would explain it all), which was so utterly unconvincing, that took me down the road to people who not only spoke about genetic differences (Rushton), but people who spoke about the culture issues (Mark Steyn). Since then, I've gotten more into philosophical ideas.

It's amazing how many "why" questions you can find yourself asking once you remove the Marxist mind-meld that's put onto you starting at about the age of three. Seriously, under that paradigm, you probably only use about half to two thirds of your critical thinking skills. I'm not exaggerating, either. And I think you guys really have it rough in the U.K. and Finland from what I've seen.

Eldritch, glad you got your pools back (sorta).

[The Ripper]

Finnish women don't usually need a female-only pool time. And I'm sure they'll be even less willing to go if it is used mainly by immigrant women. So nothing has really changed.

If there can be "immigrant only" and "female only" pool time, ngos, whatever, can there also be "Finnish only" or "male only" counterparts? Would they be equally progressive? :rolleyes:

[Debaser11]

Don't you guys make rich people pay more for speeding tickets? I asked this once before and just wanted to get confirmation.

[The Ripper]

Don't you guys make rich people pay more for speeding tickets? I asked this once before and just wanted to get confirmation.

Yes, all fines are "progressive," i.e. they depend on your income. But if you think about the point of having fines, it makes sense. They're supposed to be a deterrent (although today increasingly a source of state income) and if they're too small to deter anyone, they don't work.

[Debaser11]

Yes, all fines are "progressive," i.e. they depend on your income. But if you think about the point of having fines, it makes sense. They're supposed to be a deterrent (although today increasingly a source of state income) and if they're too small to deter anyone, they don't work.

Not that I wish to derail the thread, but I want to respond.

First of all, thank you for answering my question.

At the risk of sounding condescending (which is not my intention), I think that it is exactly this type of hyper-rationalization which causes you guys to give up your pools to foreigners. It's the same exact Marxist strand of conscious thinking. This sort of counting the sprinkles on each cupcake. This sort of staggering the starting blocks on the track accordingly. This sort of hyper-adjusting. This sort of effort to level everything out. First of all, it's completely materialist and obscenely relativist. It assumes there is no meta-retribution or justice to be had in any cosmic sense for infringing on society. So it's completely anti-thetical to not only what a healthy people should do to sustain their race and culture, but it's a completely anti-thetical mindset for any sort of reaching out beyond the material and into the meta realm which has always been European peoples' greatest strength.

So anyways...

Fines are not just a deterrent. And again, I don't mean to belittle you as much as I just intend to speak honestly regarding my feelings. The idea of punishing someone for breaking the law has a deeper purpose that the materialist hyper-rationalization side misses in the abscence of some transcendent beliefs that European-derived peoples increasingly lack but certainly didn't in their glorious past. Fines represent a restoration of balance. We call this justice. And it's the bedrock of society, really. And justice is something that runs so deep in our bones (even if we sometimes ignore it) that we base ontological supermen around such a concept.

So how is it that two people can commit the same act and be given a different fine within the same jurisdiction in the name of justice? It doesn't seem possible by my reckoning. Similarly, your government tells you that race doesn't matter. We're all equal. Even culture doesn't matter. So how can two equal sets of people (according to your government) be given different sets of pool rules?

And what if fines didn't deter? Would they then have no basis? Certainly they would still in most people's eyes because offenses against society's laws are almost cosmic, in a way. What if I stole from a rich man? Say he does not notice. It'd still be wrong, no? But if I were to hyper-rationalize in a materialist sense, I'd start to find reasons to justify such theft ("well, he wasn't going to use it anyways"). This type of thinking has taken hold of Europe and the rest of the West. And it's killing us.

Again, I think such thought largely carries over to the pool situation. Maybe there were some Finns saying "well, we never like to go swimming on Sunday mornings anyways and if makes the immigrants more comfortable and happy not to see us there, then what's the problem?" Of course, it may not have been that exact strain of thought, but a similiar type of pseudo-rationalization that completely omits the fact that Finland belongs to Finns because Finns are distinct group who embody a distinct culture which has a distinct spirit which is the only real system of thought that gives proper dignity to the human race.

[Sunray]

I can remember watching Jared Diamond's television special which highlighted his book, Guns, Germs, and Steel. It was actually that program (which my then liberal mind assumed would explain it all), which was so utterly unconvincing

Travel too; once you have seen Blacks dealing drugs in London, Los Angeles, Brazil and Beijing you wonder. Backpacking itself is wrapped round in implicit Whiteness, with Israelis included but at arm's length, and Japanese honorary if only because they are so polite and few in number.

Curiously I also went to Israel, liked it, and came back a great deal more nationalistic.

[The Ripper]

I see your point. ;)

[Sunray]

Not that I wish to derail the thread, but I want to respond.

First of all, thank you for answering my question.

At the risk of sounding condescending (which is not my intention), I think that it is exactly this type of hyper-rationalization which causes you guys to give up your pools to foreigners. It's the same exact Marxist strand of conscious thinking. This sort of counting the sprinkles on each cupcake. This sort of staggering the starting blocks on the track accordingly. This sort of hyper-adjusting. This sort of effort to level everything out. First of all, it's completely materialist and obscenely relativist. It assumes there is no meta-retribution or justice to be had in any cosmic sense for infringing on society. So it's completely anti-thetical to not only what a healthy people should do to sustain their race and culture, but it's a completely anti-thetical mindset for any sort of reaching out beyond the material and into the meta realm which has always been European peoples' greatest strength.

So anyways...

Fines are not just a deterrent. And again, I don't mean to belittle you as much as I just intend to speak honestly regarding my feelings. The idea of punishing someone for breaking the law has a deeper purpose that the materialist hyper-rationalization side misses in the abscence of some transcendent beliefs that European-derived peoples increasingly lack but certainly didn't in their glorious past. Fines represent a restoration of balance. We call this justice. And it's the bedrock of society, really. And justice is something that runs so deep in our bones (even if we sometimes ignore it), that we base ontological supermen around such a concept.

So how is it that two people can commit the same act and be given a different fine within the same jurisdiction in the name of justice? It doesn't seem possible by my reckoning. Similarly, your government tells you that race doesn't matter. We're all equal. Even culture doesn't matter. So can two equal sets of people (according to your government) be given different sets of pool rules?

And what if fines didn't deter? Would they then have no basis? Certainly they would still in most people's eyes because offenses against societies laws are almost cosmic, in a way. What if I stole from a rich man? Say he does not notice. It'd still be wrong, no? But if I were to hyper-rationalize in a materialist sense, I'd start to find reasons to justify such theft ("well, he wasn't going to use it anyways"). This type of thinking has taken hold of Europe and the rest of the West. And it's killing us.

Again, I think such thought largely carries over to the pool situation. Maybe there were some Finns saying "well, we never like to go swimming on Sunday mornings anyways and if makes the immigrants more comfortable and happy not to see us there, then what's the problem?" Of course, it may not have been that exact strain of thought, but a similiar type of pseudo-rationalization that completely omits the fact that Finland belongs to Finns because Finns are distinct group who embody a distinct culture which has a distinct spirit which is the only real system of thought that gives proper dignity to the human race.

Yes!

We are constantly told prison is not about retribution but only about preventing future crimes. A justice system about justice is for savages...somehow...I suppose it prioritizes itself over the best outcome of lower future crime and therefore is less good. This ignores the obvious fact that justice is a good in itself.

[Debaser11]

Travel too; once you have seen Blacks dealing drugs in London, Los Angeles, Brazil and Beijing you wonder. Backpacking itself is wrapped round in implicit Whiteness, with Israelis included but at arm's length, and Japanese honorary if only because they are so polite and few in number.

Curiously I also went to Israel, liked it, and came back a great deal more nationalistic.

Haha. Again, we share some similarities. I lived in a clean, safe, efficient Asian city for two years. I began to walk the city streets without the normal sense of anxiety one gets when large numbers of blacks or Mexicans inhabit a place. Then I moved back and I remember one night filling up my gas in the wrong part of town. All of sudden, I saw my first bullet proof glass for a convenient store clerk in two years. I remember filling up my gas tank thinking that I could legitmately be killed where I was standing.

The contrast got me to think about why. Racial demographics and cultural rifts were obvious differences. It's funny. Usually it's the airhead liberal crowd that wants you to travel and "open your mind." Traveling with somewhat of a genuinely critical mind (I'll give myself some credit here) actually had the reverse effect that my college professors probably wanted.

[Sword of the Morning]

I certainly went from understanding the Islamic cultural threat first to the greater cultural threat to our racial tragedy.

I distinctly remember saying a few years ago that the fact that 50% of Britain-dwelling Afro-Caribbean men mate outside there race was good for integration, and therefore good.

If you can think like that, that integration is good as opposed to multiculturalism, then a few facts about genetics and a bit of an open-mind will take you the rest of the way.

That's wonderful to hear! :thumb001:

I suppose it stands to reason that those individuals possessed of an inquiring mind and the ability to think critically run little risk of becoming bogged down in Republican/EDL-style opposition to Islam and Islam alone, missing the forest for the trees.


And Sunray, I think I had a similiar evolution in my own thought within the past few years. I can remember watching Jared Diamond's television special which highlighted his book, Guns, Germs, and Steel. It was actually that program (which my then liberal mind assumed would explain it all), which was so utterly unconvincing, that took me down the road to people who not only spoke about genetic differences (Rushton), but people who spoke about the culture issues (Mark Steyn). Since then, I've gotten more into philosophical ideas.

It's amazing how many "why" questions you can find yourself asking once you remove the Marxist mind-meld that's put onto you starting at about the age of three. Seriously, under that paradigm, you probably only use about half to two thirds of your critical thinking skills. I'm not exaggerating, either. And I think you guys really have it rough in the U.K. and Finland from what I've seen.

Absolutely. Some say that a person's tolerance for racial diversity is inversely proportional to his or her experience with it, and the same principle applies to the pseudo-science held up as absolute truth by those who would deny Europeans the right to exist. Several White acquaintances of mine from college became insta-racists overnight after enrolling in a Women's Studies course in which the Afro-Jewish professor spent the entire class, every class, making her visceral hatred of Europeans abundantly clear.

I'm grateful for idiots like her. She has made more strides for European preservationism than I ever could! :clap2:

[Eldritch]

My question to you, Eldritch, is this: Will people standing up to Muslim demands spark the fire of nationalism/preservationism further down the road, or will it instead bring about a school of thought similar to that of Neo-Conservatives in the USA, whereby any immigrant from the hellpits of the Third World can become a Finn, so long as he "assimilates" and isn't some kind of a "terrorist" (whatever that means :coffee:)?

The consensus among the people who take a realistic approach to immigration is that large-scale integration is not possible.

Whether anyone would want integration and assimilation of lots of foreign people even if it were is a more theoretical question (I sure as hell would not).

Is a fully integrated Third Worlder a Finn? No, but I'll make the allowance that his fully integrated children may be. But then we run into the problem that studies have shown that the second generation of immigrants is often even more radicalised and problematic (the London tube bombers had all been born in Britain). So all in all it should be obvious that instead of trying to come with solutions to these problems, it would make much more sense to just not let them develop in the first place.



Eldritch, glad you got your pools back (sorta).

The Muslims only day was ever observed in one swimming hall of fourteen in Helsinki, so the opposition to it was, for most people, including me, a question of principle more than anything else. What was particularly annoying to me (it seemed like giving the finger to general population whose taxes pay for the pool) was that they had to choose Saturday for the Muslims only day, despite the fact that about 0% of the Muslim women here work.

At least from now on the hall will also be open on Sundays, which is the popular swimming and bathing day for families here.

[Debaser11]

Well, as you saw from my bloviated post I made, I think principles very much matter. And I think it's this laxing of principles in the name of perceived material interests and shallow sentimentality (equality) that have degraded us in more ways than we can imagine. And none of us are exempt, I'm sure.

[Eldritch]

Well, as you saw from my bloviated post I made, I think principles very much matter.

Yes indeed, of course they do.