Estonia map on euro coin 'includes chunk of Russia'

[The Ripper]

Estonia map on euro coin 'includes chunk of Russia'

Estonia's introduction of the euro has sparked controversy after it was claimed that a map of the tiny Baltic country on the new Estonian one euro coin appears to include a chunk of neighbouring Russia.

A prominent member of Estonia's large ethnic Russian community complained about the alleged mistake to the Kremlin, triggering a diplomatic row just days after the new coins entered circulation on January 1.

"When I first took the new euro coin in my hand the borders seemed unfamiliar to me," said Sergey Seredenko, a lawyer and defender of the Russian diaspora's rights in Estonia.

"I phoned the Bank of Estonia and asked what borders were represented. The answer was wonderful. They told me that it was an 'artist's impression'." Mr Seredenko said it looked as if the artist had made a mistake and included a chunk of western Russia that used to belong to Estonia before 1944.

His claim is highly sensitive as Estonia was part of first the Russian Empire and then the Soviet Union until 1991 and relations between the Kremlin and its tiny neighbour remain riven with mutual historical animosity.

Russian media were quick to suggest that the alleged error was a deliberate "political provocation" designed to rub salt in a long-standing territorial dispute.

"The map of Estonia depicted on the new euro coins clearly does not correspond to the country's modern borders," Russian daily newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda fumed.

It said the two countries had tried to reach an agreement over their respective borders in 2005 but that a deal had unravelled after the Kremlin accused Estonia of bad faith.

"The situation is absolutely scandalous and its consequences are unpredictable," the paper said of the euro coin dispute. "It would have been better if the Estonians had depicted a fig leaf on their coins turned towards Russia. That would have been more honest."

Estonia's ambassador to Moscow dismissed the claims about the new coins as inaccurate. While admitting that the borders depicted on the coin might be "a millimetre out here and there," he said the outline was broadly right.

"This piece of news is untruthful," the ambassador, Simmu Tiik, told Ekho Moskvy radio. "The current border and not the pre-war border is depicted." Estonia has tried to distance itself from Moscow by joining the EU, Nato, and, most recently, by adopting the euro.


Estonians have a tendency for this kind of thing, I think. I remember reading an Estonian news story on the school shootings in Finland, and there the Finnish map had the borders established in the treaty of Dorpat rather than the ones established in the treaty of Moscow and Paris. ;)

[Talvi]

Actually I heard about that before the coins had come out.

I must say I dont really understand it. I cant really see the difference between the map and the coin...

http://www.estonia.com.au/pics/map.jpg

http://www.estonianfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/1_euro_coin_Ee-300x300.jpg

If you look really hard, maybe the upper part seems a bit odd? But I dont see it as terribly unfamiliar with chunks of Russian land... ?!

[The Ripper]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q50/AlfaetOmega/1939_eng_expl.jpg

Actually it seems that the map on the coin is more akin to present borders.

Anyway, even if Estonia "took" a chunk of Russia in this map, Russia took a chunk (actually all) of Estonia in reality. Of course since they did it in order to fight fascism, they have a right to bitch.

[Äike]

In reality, the Estonian euro coins have the current borders. The Seto people even protested against the winning design, as Setomaa wasn't included on it. Setomaa is currently occupied by Russia.

There's a plan by the local Seto craftsmen to "fix" the euro coins which are used in the Estonian part of Setomaa, so that they would included Setomaa in the borders of Estonia, like it was before 1944.

I didn't even read the original article, but I have to say that these crazy Russians in Estonia are capable of whining about everything, even if there's nothing to whine about. They say that our prime minister and the entire Estonian government is a bunch of "fascists", because Russian isn't the official language of Estonia.

[Talvi]

In reality, the Estonian euro coins have the current borders. The Seto people even protested against the winning design, as Setomaa wasn't included on it. Setomaa is currently occupied by Russia.

There's a plan by the local Seto craftsmen to "fix" the euro coins which are used in the Estonian part of Setomaa, so that they would included Setomaa in the borders of Estonia, like it was before 1944.

I didn't even read the original article, but I have to say that these crazy Russians in Estonia are capable of whining about everything, even if there's nothing to whine about. They say that our prime minister and the entire Estonian government is a bunch of "fascists", because Russian isn't the official language of Estonia.

Actually I am not so sure if it would be a good idea to include those areas. It is mostly a pride thing, but in reality, its not like those areas are full of wonderful Estonians or Setu people. If we ever did get those areas the percentage of Russians would just go up.

However, the original coins and the original design had the borders according to the Tartu peace treaty, as Ive heard, but it was changed to the current map.

And going a little off topic Id like to mention I was physically assaulted by a Russian bus driver in the bus station for telling him to speak in Estonian.

[The Ripper]

Хейм модули рейха! ;)

[Äike]

Actually I am not so sure if it would be a good idea to include those areas. It is mostly a pride thing, but in reality, its not like those areas are full of wonderful Estonians or Setu people. If we ever did get those areas the percentage of Russians would just go up.

Russian occupied Karelia is also full of Russians, does that mean that Karelia shouldn't belong to Finland?

East-Prussia is now full of Russians, while it was German before WW2.

Setomaa is occupied by Russia, that's a fact.


However, the original coins and the original design had the borders according to the Tartu peace treaty, as Ive heard, but it was changed to the current map.

:ohwell:


And going a little off topic Id like to mention I was physically assaulted by a Russian bus driver in the bus station for telling him to speak in Estonian.

We have all been physically assaulted by Russians at some point of our lives, once it ended quite badly for me. It was in May, 2008. But I do not want to talk about that.

You're a woman, how could anyone assault a woman? Even from a vile Russian it is a bit unexpected.

[The Ripper]

Russian occupied Karelia is also full of Russians, does that mean that Karelia shouldn't belong to Finland?

Most Finns would not take Karelia back with the Russian population. If it was given back as it was taken - void of people - we would consider it.

[Äike]

Most Finns would not take Karelia back with the Russian population. If it was given back as it was taken - void of people - we would consider it.

Karelia was given, Setomaa was taken. There's a difference.

[The Ripper]

Karelia was given, Setomaa was taken. There's a difference.

WTF?

[Äike]

WTF?

I somehow misinterpreted your post, but the point remains. Finland gave Karelia away with a peace treaty, Setomaa was taken without any treaties. Either way Karelia should belong to Finland and Setomaa to Estonia.

[Peerkons]

Alosha?

[Äike]

Alosha?

Why do you, a Balto-Slav, have to invade every Estonian thread with your Balto-Slavic trolling?

Seriously, do posts which have a single word in them, have a meaning? Most people would say no.

[The Ripper]

I somehow misinterpreted your post, but the point remains. Finland gave Karelia away with a peace treaty, Setomaa was taken without any treaties. Either way Karelia should belong to Finland and Setomaa to Estonia.

Estonians gave away their entire country. :rolleyes:

When you give something away at gun point, its called robbery.

[Talvi]

Russian occupied Karelia is also full of Russians, does that mean that Karelia shouldn't belong to Finland?

East-Prussia is now full of Russians, while it was German before WW2.

Setomaa is occupied by Russia, that's a fact.



Of course it would be nice if those areas belonged to their so-called "rightful owners", but as mentioned by some other posters they now come with a certain price - more Russians.

If we could deport all the anti-Estonian Russians and people who are unable to properly communicate in Estonian, then there would be no problem. But we cant really do that....

Personally I dont think Russia should have any land at all, but thats not really an option either. Pretty much everything they have has been taken from other peoples, and they havent even done anything good with it, just screw it up.

[Äike]

Estonians gave away their entire country. :rolleyes:

Estonia was occupied. Denmark gave away their entire country without a single shot, while the Estonians still tried to fight the Soviets.

Reading too much Johan Bäckman, huh? I never imagined you as a supporter of him. :ohwell:

[Äike]

Of course it would be nice if those areas belonged to their so-called "rightful owners", but as mentioned by some other posters they now come with a certain price - more Russians.

We already have a shitload of Russians, the small number of Russians living in Setomaa wouldn't be a problem if they stayed in their areas or moved to Russia(which the Estonian government would support financially).


If we could deport all the anti-Estonian Russians and people who are unable to properly communicate in Estonian, then there would be no problem. But we cant really do that....

Deporting 1/4 of the population of Estonia is an impossible task. :(


Personally I dont think Russia should have any land at all, but thats not really an option either. Pretty much everything they have has been taken from other peoples, and they havent even done anything good with it, just screw it up.

You are completely correct.

[The Ripper]

Estonia was occupied. Denmark gave away their entire country without a single shot, while the Estonians still tried to fight the Soviets.

Reading too much Johan Bäckman, huh? I never imagined you as a supporter of him. :ohwell:

Look, its not me who started saying that we gave Karelia away, and that because of that our claim to it is weaker than your claim to Setomaa. I wonder what exactly makes you say such an offensive thing? If anything, the fact that we fought, damned hard, strengthens our claim to the lost territories. Your political leadership keeled over and accepted the TREATY handed by the Soviets, which DE FACTO gave your country away.

I'm not a fan of Bäckman, I'm an opponent of your one-eyed points of view. By saying that you gave your country away I tried to give you an idea of how offensive it was to claim that we somehow "gave" away Karelia, and that this lessens our claim to that land. Yeah, we "gave" it, after losing c. 25 000 young men on the front, after 4 months of warfare that left the forests and lakes of Karelia littered with the bodies of Soviet soldiers that would begin decomposing in spring.

And then you say I'm a supporter of Bäckman. You dick.

[Peerkons]

I agree with Riippumatto about claims for those lands. Finland was the only one, who had guts to fight soviets. Imo Baltic states dont deserve to exist because they didnt fought for anything.

[Eldritch]

Alosha?

Huh?

[Äike]

Look, its not me who started saying that we gave Karelia away, and that because of that our claim to it is weaker than your claim to Setomaa. I wonder what exactly makes you say such an offensive thing? If anything, the fact that we fought, damned hard, strengthens our claim to the lost territories. Your political leadership keeled over and accepted the TREATY handed by the Soviets, which DE FACTO gave your country away.

I'm not a fan of Bäckman, I'm an opponent of your one-eyed points of view. By saying that you gave your country away I tried to give you an idea of how offensive it was to claim that we somehow "gave" away Karelia, and that this lessens our claim to that land. Yeah, we "gave" it, after losing c. 25 000 young men on the front, after 4 months of warfare that left the forests and lakes of Karelia littered with the bodies of Soviet soldiers that would begin decomposing in spring.

And then you say I'm a supporter of Bäckman. You dick.

I misinterpreted your original post. I am sorry if I offended you in any way. Many Estonians also fought alongside with Finns, against the Soviets, thus both of our people suffered. I have always considered Karelia to be Finnish territory.


Imo Baltic states dont deserve to exist because they didnt fought for anything.

Having fun with being a troll? :)

[EWtt]

Any Estonian can see it doesn't include the Treaty of Tartu borders, many Estonians even called it a map of the Estonian SSR not the Republic of Estonia. I would have preferred the original design which did include the old areas, if those Setu craftsmen ever happen to make those, I'd love to own one.

As for the Russians whining again, they won't stop until we're in the CIS or completely part of Russia, until we have Russian rouble as our currency, and Russian as the only official language. What would make them really happy is Estonians being sent to Siberia. They're just bitter about losing their occupation era privileges in society.

[The Ripper]

Allowing for a continued existence of Estonians is like letting the Nazis win, to them. ;)