Worst case of OWD: Nassim Nicholas

[Hudayar]

https://i.hizliresim.com/JONYOn.png

He also has a lot of bullshit views on genetics of Middle Eastern people. He's also for some reasons extremely butthurt about Arabs.

What do the Lebanese think about him?

[Hudayar]

Is this actually true btw?
https://i.hizliresim.com/0GgqGL.png

[Hudayar]

I am probably more related to Rome and Ancient Hellen people than him lmao.
But according to him we're actually Hittites and Kurds :1127:

[Ghazi]

lol, we actually have a Lebanese member here on TA who is like that

[StonyArabia]

Levantines have deep colonial mentality especially Lebanese, and especially the case of Levantine Christians. Some of them would claim French/Crusader descent. They also love to claim to be Greek or look Greek or Italian. It's kinda sad really. His first name is Nassim which is quite Arabic lol.

[Hudayar]

Levantines have deep colonial mentality especially Lebanese, and especially the case of Levantine Christians. Some of them would claim French/Crusader descent. They also love to claim to be Greek or look Greek or Italian. It's kinda sad really. His first name is Nassim which is quite Arabic lol.


lol, we actually have a Lebanese member here on TA who is like that


But is it true that Lebs can't write a letter in Arabic? :D

[JMack]

Lebanese are mostly Phoenicians not Arabs; genetics proves it. Taleb attesting it isn't OWD because Phoenicians weren't ''whites'' or Europeans. And Lebanon was fully Romanized before it's conquest by Arabs.

[Hudayar]

Lebanese are mostly Phoenicians not Arabs; genetics proves it. Taleb attesting it isn't OWD because Phoenicians weren't ''whites'' or Europeans. And Lebanon was fully Romanized before it's conquest by Arabs.

If you actually read more of his posts you'll see that he's 200% delusional (like claiming Lebs don't speak Arabic and Arabic gene contribution to Lebanon is 0% etc)

The question is
How the fuck is this guy a famous person

[Ghazi]

But is it true that Lebs can't write a letter in Arabic? :D

of course not, all of them speak and write Arabic

[StonyArabia]

But is it true that Lebs can't write a letter in Arabic? :D

No, their official language is arabic. The Arabic alphabet are the most beautiful alphabet in the world. This idiot wants Lebanon to be European enclave in the Middle East what a laughing stock

[JMack]

If you actually read more of his posts you'll see that he's 200% delusional (like claiming Lebs don't speak Arabic and Arabic gene contribution to Lebanon is 0% etc)

The question is
How the fuck is this guy a famous person

I don't know about what he's saying, but Christian Lebanese generally integrate well among whites. That can't be said about most MENA groups.

[StonyArabia]

I don't know about what he's saying, but Christian Lebanese generally integrate well among whites. That can't be said about most MENA groups.

They always kissed White ass, like their Ghassanid Arabian ancestors

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghassanids

They also intermixed with the Greco-Romans

However unlike the Nabateans who rose in revolts with several female warrior Queens, and kept their paganism but would convert to Islam as political means and buff up the Arabian armies.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

I think you fags don't understand what he is saying.



150 The Stickiness of Languages

Many Greek Cypriots still speak the language called "Cypriot Maronite Arabic", that is, 12 centuries after their settlement and integration in the Greek side of the Island. Languages are stickier than we think (People tend to associate languages with states, when the correlation was low before 1917: around the Mediterranean, particularly in Asia Minor, languages had no link to the rule (Armenians spent thousands of years in the area between Cilicia to Aleppo, way past the lifetime of some "Armenian State";etc.)). It is only today that the Cypriot Arabic language has weakened , thanks to Facebook and intermarriage. Semitic languages being based on the triplet of consonnants --using vowels mainly for declensions -- are very stable (the drift in Cypriot Maronite Arabic appears very small).

This stickiness of the Semitic languages supports a speculation: by the 7th Century there had to be many pockets in the Western Mediterranean of Punic-Canaanite speakers, about a thousand years after the fall of Carthage. Falling under Roman rule did not turn the population into Latin speakers (only for scholarly purposes, say Saint Augustine of Hyppo; we have much evidence of diglossia in the Levant, of the use of a language at home and for oral communication that is different from the language of writing, and doing so for 1000 years). And there had to be plenty of Semitic language speakers; just follow placenames from Carthage to Ramatuelle in France near Saint Tropez (ramat el means hill of God in both Canaanite and Hebrew). Even Marseilles seems to come from Marsa, port in Canaanite (and not from Massilia the Roman name since the Romans did not make names, but transcribed them). I estimate that the third of the coastal villages spoke Semitic dialects. The modus of the Phoenicians was network, hence a system of trade links built on trust (you send merchandise to a relative who pays you back; you needed a certain amount of trust before the letter of credit). The region is large: it extends all the way to Mogador on the Atlantic coast.

This explains the mystery of the effortless Arab invasion of the Southern and Western Mediterranean, all the way to Spain (and, less advertised, the Portuguese Algarve). They had to be welcomed by the local population along the coast. Canaanite and Arabic are easily mutually comprehensible (the distance between Semitic languages is very short, a corrollary of the stability thanks to the triplet of consonnants). And it is wasy for a Punic speaker to progressively become an Arabic speaker, since he already knows 80-90% of the vocabulary.

This also gives some credibility to the thesis that was popping up in the 19th century that the North African Jews had a Phoenician origin (or that the difference between Canaanite and Jew before the rabbinical period was not very pronounced for people to see an immediate difference). This is very plausible, since the Phoenician Canaanite diaspora had characteristics in trade networks that is similar to that of the Jews of later period. We find them in the same places as the Phoenicians. They had similar Gods (plus or minus monotheism & the beastly tophet, but we know of syncretisms as because religions were not very differentiated, as we saw evidence in Doura Europos and there were places of worship that would accommodate both Jews, early Christians, and pagans). They had a nearly identical language in the East (Canaanite) and a very similar one in the West (we only have one punic passage transcribed into Latin in a play by Plautus: in spite of the geographic distance it remained very close to classical Hebrew and Canaanite). My speculation is that many of the Jews are those locals who did not convert to Islam, and did not feel that had to. I voiced the idea to Jacques Attali (of North African Jewish ancestry) who boasted a historical relation to Phoenicians; he blurted out "tu me dis que les juifs sont des phéniciens, je te dis que les phéniciens sont des juifs").

It is remarkable how people fall for the retrospective distortion, by imparting to ancient religions modern definitions and differentiations from rituals and theologies developed after, and to ancient "states" the definition of the modern state. "Identities" did not exist at the time, so "Canaanite" or "Arab" were not part of the discussion: one belonged to a certain network, a tribe, bottom up, using the Semitic patrilinear line of belonging. Ibn 3am means "cousin from the father's side" (Remarkably, in Hebrew 3am means people, or tribe).

Finally, the Maltese, in spite of having been a bastion of Christianity, still speak a Semitic language easy to understand by Arabic speakers.
http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/notebook

I'm not saying he's right or wrong. I have no interest in languages. Languages are kind of faggy.

[JMack]

They always kissed White ass, like their Ghassanid Arabian ancestors

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghassanids

They also intermixed with the Greco-Romans

However unlike the Nabateans who rose in revolts with several female warrior Queens, and kept their paganism but would convert to Islam as political means and buff up the Arabian armies.

Modern Lebanese are 93% genetically similar to ancient Phoenicians. I don't think Arabs are a major source of their ancestry. The reason they integrate well is because they behave like humans unlike most other MENAs living in Western countries.

[Hudayar]

I think you fags don't understand what he is saying.

Was this written by him?


White people please accept me

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Was this written by him?

Yes.



White people please accept me

Do you have paypal?

[StonyArabia]

^ He is delusional and takes pride that his ancestors were proxies of the Byzantines, well my ancestors actually raided Byzantine territory and eventually managed to destroy it. The Bedouin tribes were very hard to subdue by the Byzantines or the Persians. We defeated both. The Nabateans were one of these Bedouin groupings.

[Hudayar]

Phonecians were probably more related to Arab tribes than to Europeans :D

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Modern Lebanese are 93% genetically similar to ancient Phoenicians. I don't think Arabs are a major source of their ancestry. The reason they integrate well is because they behave like humans unlike most other MENAs living in Western countries.

How do you know they're 93% genetically similar to ancient Phoenicians?

[Kouros]

I like him. I died when I first read 'Saudi Barbaria'.

[StonyArabia]

Modern Lebanese are 93% genetically similar to ancient Phoenicians. I don't think Arabs are a major source of their ancestry. The reason they integrate well is because they behave like humans unlike most other MENAs living in Western countries.

Do you know all MENA's? Arabian people don't have much of negative reputation. Saudis, Omanis, Emiriatis, ect. in America are quite successful group, they integrate but they don't want to be White, simply because they are proud of their culture, they even wear their traditional attire. The Ghassanid are still part of their ancestry.

[StonyArabia]

I like him. I died when I first read 'Saudi Barbaria'.

Barbaria was the name of North Africa, nothing funny about it.

[JMack]

How do you know they're 93% genetically similar to ancient Phoenicians?

Many studies have been posted here showing the genetic affinities between Lebanese and Phoenicians. Some Phoenician samples have been tested and the conclusion was that they are ~93% similar to modern Lebanese.

''According to a study in the American Journal of Human Genetics, today’s Lebanese share a whopping 93% of their DNA with ancient Canaanites who lived nearly 4,000 years ago.

The study also found that the Bronze Age inhabitants of Sidon, a major Canaanite city-state in modern-day Lebanon, had the same genetic profile as people who lived 300 to 800 years earlier in present-day Jordan.

Later known as Phoenicians, the Canaanites have a murky past. Nearly all of their own records have been destroyed over the centuries, so their history has been mostly pieced together from archaeological records and the writings of other ancient peoples.''

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-canaanite-lebanese-genetics-20170727-story.html

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

^ He is delusional and takes pride that his ancestors were proxies of the Byzantines, well my ancestors actually raided Byzantine territory and eventually managed to destroy it.

"When crackers destroy a civilization it's horrible. When my people destroy a civilization it's super cool and I get to be proud."

Thank you for proving the point I made in another thread about how tears for the conquered only hides the desire to be the conqueror.


The Bedouin tribes were very hard to subdue by the Byzantines or the Persians. We defeated both. The Nabateans were one of these Bedouin groupings.

I wonder what your ancestors would have thought of you playing a child's game (Pokemon) instead of knowing how to do something masculine like knowing how to fire a gun, box, or use power tools.

[Hudayar]

Many studies have been posted here showing the genetic affinities between Lebanese and Phoenicians. Some Phoenician samples have been tested and the conclusion was that they are ~93% similar to modern Lebanese.

''According to a study in the American Journal of Human Genetics, today’s Lebanese share a whopping 93% of their DNA with ancient Canaanites who lived nearly 4,000 years ago.

The study also found that the Bronze Age inhabitants of Sidon, a major Canaanite city-state in modern-day Lebanon, had the same genetic profile as people who lived 300 to 800 years earlier in present-day Jordan.

Later known as Phoenicians, the Canaanites have a murky past. Nearly all of their own records have been destroyed over the centuries, so their history has been mostly pieced together from archaeological records and the writings of other ancient peoples.''

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-canaanite-lebanese-genetics-20170727-story.html

a smilar study should be done about Seljuk-Turkish relationship to make some dumbasses on the internet shut up. At least 20-30K Turkmens should be tested tho. And if it's possible first 5 Ottoman sultans to see which one is the genetically most closest to us. I think Murad I but could be proven wrong.

[Kouros]

Barbaria was the name of North Africa, nothing funny about it.

Saudi Barbaria = Saudi Arabia...

[frankhammer]

It's good to see these ancient east med people re-owning their heritage again. Is there any recording of their ancient language anywhere that they could remove the Arabic language too.

[Hudayar]

It's good to see these ancient east med people re-owning their heritage again. Is there any recording of their ancient language anywhere that they could remove the Arabic language too.

ancient east med people were probably more related to arabs than to europeans. I'm obviously not saying Lebanese are Arabs, but they're related to Arabs.

we iz white plz accept us wypipo behaviour just makes people like nassim look pathetic.

[frankhammer]

ancient east med people were probably more related to arabs than to europeans.

we iz white plz accept us wypipo behaviour just makes people like nassim look pathetic.

I don't care about the European aspect. And I don't care about who is related to who, however distant. I'd like to see these people realise who they are and change their future. They don't need to be associated with those from the east.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Many studies have been posted here showing the genetic affinities between Lebanese and Phoenicians. Some Phoenician samples have been tested and the conclusion was that they are ~93% similar to modern Lebanese.

There haven't been many studies posted here about the genetic affinities between Lebanese and Phoenicians because there aren't many studies done comparing the genome of ancient remains to the the Lebanese of today. Only in the last few years has the capability been available to sequence ancient DNA. The article you posted is from July of 2017. This a rather new revelation. It's not just another addition to a supposed over load of studies repeating what other studies have already shown.


''According to a study in the American Journal of Human Genetics, today’s Lebanese share a whopping 93% of their DNA with ancient Canaanites who lived nearly 4,000 years ago.

The study also found that the Bronze Age inhabitants of Sidon, a major Canaanite city-state in modern-day Lebanon, had the same genetic profile as people who lived 300 to 800 years earlier in present-day Jordan.

Later known as Phoenicians, the Canaanites have a murky past. Nearly all of their own records have been destroyed over the centuries, so their history has been mostly pieced together from archaeological records and the writings of other ancient peoples.''

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-canaanite-lebanese-genetics-20170727-story.html

Taleb has been vindicated.

[Mingle]

Phonecians were probably more related to Arab tribes than to Europeans :D

Culturally and genetically, they were probably closer to Greeks than to Arabs.

[Hudayar]

Culturally and genetically, they were probably closer to Greeks than to Arabs.

source needed

[Crn Volk]

It's good to see these ancient east med people re-owning their heritage again. Is there any recording of their ancient language anywhere that they could remove the Arabic language too.

http://forward.com/news/israel/164127/maronite-christians-seek-to-revive-aramaic-languag/

[StonyArabia]

"When crackers destroy a civilization it's horrible. When my people destroy a civilization it's super cool and I get to be proud."

Thank you for proving the point I made in another thread about how tears for the conquered only hides the desire to be the conqueror.

The Byzantines tried to force us into Christianity, and even destroyed the scared temple of Al-lat. Thus we revolted several times and we raided their subjugated lands when we were pagans, which the people of those lands welcomed us as liberators, after when we converted to Islam. That was not Byzantine land in the first place but occupied Semitic lands. This

Also this Arabian female warrior kicked Byzantine ass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khawlah_bint_al-Azwar



I wonder what your ancestors would have thought of you playing a child's game (Pokemon) instead of knowing how to do something masculine like knowing how to fire a gun, box, or use power tools.

I am actually quite skilled in using the Sword and I know how to ride a horse more than most people. Since when I was child I was put in horse riding lessons and was taught to use the Sword by my maternal Uncle. We always had female warriors in one period or another, fighting is not masculine or feminine trait look at the warrior I posted.

[War Chef]

He seems like a well-rounded guy to me.

Christian Lebs cannot relate to backward Moslems. Better turn to Europe indeed, we'll gladly accept them. :)

<3 you Lebanon.

[amoora]

But is it true that Lebs can't write a letter in Arabic? :D

No that's not true lol

[Kouros]

Culturally and genetically, they were probably closer to Greeks than to Arabs.

Culturally yeah, genetically I don't think so...

[Mingle]

It's good to see these ancient east med people re-owning their heritage again. Is there any recording of their ancient language anywhere that they could remove the Arabic language too.

There are a few inscriptions of their language, but not enough to revive it unfortunately. It was closely related to Hebrew so maybe they could start a Neo-Phoenician language heavily based on Hebrew with a few tweaks? Seems unrealistic though.

[JMack]

There haven't been many studies posted here about the genetic affinities between Lebanese and Phoenicians because there aren't many studies done comparing the genome of ancient remains to the the Lebanese of today. Only in the last few years has the capability been available to sequence ancient DNA. The article you posted is from July of 2017. This a rather new revelation. It's not just another addition to a supposed over load of studies repeating what other studies have already shown.


I was talking about this year. These topics have been discussed here in TA countless times. If you weren't seeing it's not my problem.

[Mingle]

Culturally yeah, genetically I don't think so...

According to this, modern day Lebanese people are closer to Greeks than to Saudis:

https://images.nature.com/full/nature-assets/nature/journal/v513/n7518/images/nature13673-f2.jpg

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

I was talking about this year. These topics have been discussed here in TA countless times. If you weren't seeing it's not my problem.

You said many studies. There aren't many studies on ancient Phoenician genome and certainly not being compared to modern day populations of Lebanese. You're giving a false impression.

[Smeagol]

According to this, modern day Syrians are closer to Greeks than to Bedouins and Iraqis:

http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/jewfig2d.png

I believe those are actually Syrian Jews.

[War Chef]

Lebanon took in the most refugees during the crisis. Gulf Arab did jack shit. Arabs can go suck a dick, stupid fuckers.

[StonyArabia]

I believe those are actually Syrian Jews.

I believe that's the case. Anyways Southeast Syria is mostly Bedouin tribesmen. As there was depopulation of that region just like Iraq and was replaced by Bedouin tribesmen. I don't believe Syrians would be more different than their neighbours the Iraqis are are closer to Greeks sounds like BS to me. Many Syrians can be very swarthy without any Bedouin ancestry. There is also significant Iranian influence especially in the Northeast

[Mingle]

I believe those are actually Syrian Jews.

It looked off to me in many different ways. I swapped it with another map. In the new map, I don't think they're Jews because Iraqi and Iranian Jews were specified so if they were Jews from Syria, then they would have been specified.

[Smeagol]

It looked off to me in many different ways. I swapped it with another map. In the new map, I don't think they're Jews because Iraqi and Iranian Jews were specified so if they were Jews from Syria, then they would have been specified.

Okay. Well on the new plot you posted Syrians are closer to ''Bedouin A'' than Greeks but closer to Greeks than ''Bedouin B'' Not sure what the differences in the Bedouin groups are.

[Hadouken]

Okay. Well on the new plot you posted Syrians are closer to ''Bedouin A'' than Greeks but closer to Greeks than ''Bedouin B'' Not sure what the differences in the Bedouin groups are.

Bedouin-A is owd while Bedouin-B is proud arabian warrior

the A in Bedouin A stands for Asskisser (of europeans) while the B in Bedouin-B stands for Boss

[JMack]

You said many studies. There aren't many studies on ancient Phoenician genome and certainly not being compared to modern day populations of Lebanese. You're giving a false impression.

There are at least 4 since 2016. I can link them if you want.

[Smeagol]

Oh, just noticed they're closer to Greeks than Saudis as well. Probably true that ancient Canaanites/Phoenicians would be closer to Southeastern Europeans than Peninsular Arabs.

[StonyArabia]

Okay. Well on the new plot you posted Syrians are closer to ''Bedouin A'' than Greeks but closer to Greeks than ''Bedouin B'' Not sure what the differences in the Bedouin groups are.

Bedouin B is Arabian peninsula
Bedouin A Levantine Bedouin

[Kouros]

According to this, modern day Syrians are closer to Greeks than to Saudis:

https://images.nature.com/full/nature-assets/nature/journal/v513/n7518/images/nature13673-f2.jpg

You mean modern day Lebanese? Syrians are about equal it seems. Saudis have a shit ton of SSA which is why they get pulled away from other 'Arab' countries. I don't think they affected the gene pool of modern day Arab countries significantly. I hate this term 'Arab country' or 'Arab' anyways despite not even being MENA myself. Everyone East of Greece is an 'Arab' according to most Americans and Canadians, they are very ignorant here.

I have a Syrian friend and his brother would pass in all southern and eastern European countries.

[StonyArabia]

You mean modern day Lebanese? Syrians are about equal it seems. Saudis have a shit ton of SSA which is why they get pulled away from other 'Arab' countries

No, Saudis are not more SSA influenced than most Arab countries, at least not ethnic Saudis. Since the country has different ethnic groups living in it. Saudis cluster with Yemenite Jews and Bedouins. They don't cluster with Syrians because Syrians have different genetic components and one of those is Iranian and Anatolian influence. Iraqi Arabs are very close to Saudis yet they don't have much SSA. Iraqi Arabs are very far from Syrians and are much closer to Bedouins on this map at least.


I don't think they affected the gene pool of modern day Arab countries significantly. I hate this term 'Arab country' or 'Arab' anyways despite not even being MENA myself. Everyone East of Greece is an 'Arab' according to most Americans and Canadians, they are very ignorant here.

North Africa did not get much of an Arabian input, but the Levant actually did, especially certain regions. The term Arab refers to anyone speaking Arabic or has some cultural elements. Arabian is different.


I have a Syrian friend and his brother would pass in all southern and eastern European countries.

Genetically he still different from them. The fairest Levantine would autosomally be no different to the darkest Levantine. McCree900 is pretty fair and can pass in Europe, yet he is closer to me genetically than he is to any European, despite our difference in phenotype.

[Hadouken]

Genetically he still different from them. The fairest Levantine would autosomally be no different to the darkest Levantine. McCree900 is pretty fair and can pass in Europe, yet he is closer to me genetically than he is to any European, despite our difference in phenotype.

McCrees results are more similar to mine than they are to peninsular arabians if I remember right

and you are half north caucasian dont forget that so your autosomal results are not to taken as an example of saudis especially not since your arab ancestry is not even from saudi arabia but iraq

but I agree that saudis dont get much ssa . but if I remember right a decent amount of northeast/east african either way . I would need to check

[StonyArabia]

McCrees results are more similar to mine than they are to peninsular arabians if I remember right

McCree results seem to be very Levantine, he scores some Arabian and Egyptian admix but yes. He is still closer to people of the Mideast than most Europeans though.


and you are half north caucasian dont forget that so your autosomal results are not to taken as an example of saudis especially not since your arab ancestry is not even from saudi arabia but iraq

I never said my results are close to the people of the Arabian pen. Yes my Arabian ancestry from Iraq but it does go to Northern Saudi Arabia.


but I agree that saudis dont get much ssa . but if I remember right a decent amount of northeast/east african either way . I would need to check

Yep I posted results of ethnic Saudis they are not more SSA than other Arab nations. Yes they have some north/east African ancestry like all Semitic people do. Ethnic Saudis cluster with Yemenite Jews, Bedouins, and southern Iraqis. Somehow they keep on getting misrepresented because people want to whitewash levantines

[Marmara]

Arab world is large and diverse and it's not about race but language and culture. Only peninsular Arabs can be considered true arabs yet they don't make the majority of arab world. Lebanese people are not the least arabs among arabs. It would be Maghrebis i think. I find it understandable that Lebanese Christians wants to seperate themselves from Arabs since they lack the most important thing (islam) that holds arab world tight. Muslim arabs are proud to be Arabs since Islam was founded by Arabs, it's the opposite for Christian Arabs i think.

[Hadouken]

Le-Bedouin in case you dont have saudi kit numbers and are curious about their results here a saudi person

yurojeans k13




# Population Percent

1 East_Med 40.98
2 Red_Sea 38.59
3 Northeast_African 8.1
4 West_Med 5.06
5 West_Asian 4.64
6 South_Asian 2.21
7 Oceanian 0.26
8 East_Asian 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance

1 Saudi 7.76
2 Yemenite_Jewish 13.97
3 Bedouin 19.62
4 Egyptian 21.62
5 Palestinian 24.68
6 Jordanian 26.13
7 Samaritan 29.05
8 Syrian 29.43
9 Lebanese_Christian 31.26
10 Libyan_Jewish 31.34
11 Tunisian_Jewish 32.1
12 Tunisian 32.44
13 Lebanese_Muslim 32.54
14 Algerian 32.88
15 Moroccan 33.19
16 Lebanese_Druze 33.33
17 Mozabite_Berber 34.87
18 Sephardic_Jewish 35.58
19 Kurdish_Jewish 35.75
20 Cyprian 35.83


püntdna el k13 gulobal




# Population Percent

1 SW_Asia 46.56
2 West_Asia 26.33
3 SW_Europe 17.2
4 East_Africa 4.36
5 South_Africa 1.34
6 West_Africa 1.24
7 South_Asia 1.21
8 SE_Asia 0.64
9 Oceania 0.56
10 Americas 0.52
11 NE_Asia 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Saudi 3.64
2 Bedouin 8.84
3 Yemeni 11.12
4 Egyptian_Copts 13.88
5 Palestinian 17.82
6 Egyptian 19.05
7 Jordanian 20.42
8 Samaritan_Jew 20.42
9 Syrian 25.15
10 Lebanese_Muslim 25.28
11 Lebanese_Christian 25.47
12 Lebanese_Druze 26.15
13 Moroccan 30.09
14 Tunisian 30.28
15 Assyrian 30.52
16 Cypriot 31.53
17 Algerian 31.84
18 Armenian 32.95
19 Turkish_Kayseri 33.62
20 Saharawi 34


Oirasia K9 Asü



# Population Percent

1 SW_Asian 54.18
2 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 19.79
3 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 14.11
4 W_African 6.81
5 WHG 1.96
6 SE_Asian 1.64
7 Ancestral_South_Indian 1.51

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Yemenite_Jew 5.94
2 BedouinA 9.75
3 Saudi 12.11
4 Yemen 13.76
5 Jordanian 20
6 Syrian 21.63
7 Lebanese 22.91
8 Druze 24.8
9 Iraqi_Jew 25.15
10 Cypriot 28.21
11 Iranian_Jew 30.74
12 Georgian_Jew 30.95
13 Armenian 34.24
14 Maltese 35.41
15 Turkish 35.45
16 Azeri 37.71
17 Kurd_N 37.76
18 Sicilian 37.99
19 Iranian 38.9
20 Georgian 41.75



püntdna el k15



# Population Percent
1 SW_Asian 39.3
2 Mediterranean 21.69
3 Caucasian 18.38
4 Horn_Of_Africa 15.87
5 Omo_River 1.41
6 S_Indian 1.29
7 S_African 0.65
8 W_African 0.64
9 Oceanian 0.46
10 Wht_Nile_River 0.22
11 NE_European 0.07
12 Beringian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Yemenese 11.59
2 Bedouin_A 12.36
3 Yemenite_Jew 14.51
4 Saudi 15.43
5 Libyan 19.55
6 Egyptian 20.7
7 Jordanian 21.22
8 Syrian 22.75
9 Iraqi_Jew 23.89
10 Palestinian 25.6
11 Lebanese 26.36
12 Samaritian 27.27
13 Druze 30.04
14 Cypriot 35.57
15 Moroccan 37.08
16 Sephardic_Jew 37.48
17 Assyrian 37.61
18 Somali_Benadiri 37.79
19 Mozabite_Berber 38.23
20 Ashkenazy_Jew 38.4

[StonyArabia]

Arab world is large and diverse and it's not about race but language and culture. Only Gulf Arabs can be considered true arabs yet they don't make the majority of arab world. Lebanese people are not the least arabs among arabs. It would be Maghrebis i think. I find it understandable that Lebanese Christians wants to seperate themselves from Arabs since they lack the most important thing (islam) that holds arab world tight. Muslim arabs are proud to be Arabs since Islam was founded by Arabs, it's the opposite for Christian Arabs i think.

Correct Morrocans are the least Arabian influenced people genetically and culturally. Their dialect is mostly Berber rather than Arabic and most Arabic speakers don't understand them. As for Gulf Arabs not everyone residing in the Gulf is of Arab ancestry, some are of Persian, Baluchi, African and Indian ancestry, however the Arabian tribes are indeed true Arabians. Also the term Gulf Arab is a misnomer because it refers to Eastern Arabia and not interior of Arabian peninsula where the majority of ethnic Arabians live. Basically you got it right. Lebanese Christians want to form their own identity, well most Muslim Arabs are proud to have Arabian culture even if they are not ethnically Arabian due to the influence of Islam. That said some Arab Christians are also of Bedouin stock a small minority, they don't bs like this. They even wear the same attire, the difference seems to be in body type for some reason they are more robust their Muslim counterparts, they exist in Jordan and some ethnic southern Iraqi Arabs are also Christian. I share with one on 23andme and seen his gedmatch result this Jordanian Bedouin christian clusters with Saudis and Yemenite Jews. Southern Iraqis cluster with Saudis regardless of religious or sectarian affiliation, with few outliers of course.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

There are at least 4 since 2016. I can link them if you want.

Please do so. I'm sure your googling ability is far superior to my own.

This was said in May of 2016.


However, the researchers note that studies of the ancient DNA of Phoenicians are ongoing, and expect to make further progress in unraveling this genetic mystery.
https://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2016/0529/Ancient-Phoenician-DNA-suggests-a-new-model-of-human-migration

Maybe you're confused or think haplogroups are the same as genetic sequencing.

[amoora]

I always heard that Lebanese, especially Christians, were not Arab. My mum doesn't call herself Arab, she'll just say Lebanese. Phoenician heritage is definitely acknowledged more. I see Arab as more of a cultural and linguistic thing though...like the way Hispanic is. I have friends from mexico who are native american, but call themselves latino/hispanic because their country is spanish speaking.

Since I speak Arabic I don't have a problem being called Arab, even though I know the majority of my genetic makeup is not Arab.

[Smeagol]

Only Gulf Arabs can be considered true arabs.

Not only gulf Arabs but peninsular Arabs in general.

[Marmara]

Not only gulf Arabs but peninsular Arabs in general.

Yeah i actually meant Arabian Peninsula, i wrote gulf by mistake.

[Fractal]

Not only gulf Arabs but peninsular Arabs in general.

Which MENA groups do you believe should be kept out of the USA at all costs? I think first focus should be on preventing Gulf Arabs such as Yemenites from invading ollowed by Syrians, Lebanese, Egyptians,Turks, then lastly Iranians and Afghans.

I mean ideally it would be great if none of those groups were here but we have to be practical here.

[Smeagol]

Which MENA groups do you believe should be kept out of the USA at all costs? I think first focus should be on preventing Gulf Arabs such as Yemenites from invading ollowed by Syrians, Lebanese, Egyptians,Turks, then lastly Iranians and Afghans.

I mean ideally it would be great if none of those groups were here but we have to be practical here.

Muslims as a whole have no place in America. The worst MENA group I can think of would be the SSA admixed North Africans who are causing so many problems in Europe. Best would be Christian Levantines.

[StonyArabia]

I always heard that Lebanese, especially Christians, were not Arab. My mum doesn't call herself Arab, she'll just say Lebanese. Phoenician heritage is definitely acknowledged more. I see Arab as more of a cultural and linguistic thing though...like the way Hispanic is. I have friends from mexico who are native american, but call themselves latino/hispanic because their country is spanish speaking.

Since I speak Arabic I don't have a problem being called Arab, even though I know the majority of my genetic makeup is not Arab.

Arab is cultural term yes. However in your case you might have Arabian ancestry from the Ghassanids and of course Levantine peoples. You show slight Arabid traits. Not to mention the Ghassanid intermixed also with Byzantine nobility. Some Lebanese Christians are even from the Banu Makhzum a clan of Quryaish that left Islam for Christianity.That said I don't mind if people don't want to identify as Arab but to use it at of self-hate and hostility is very wrong and demeaning and it comes out of hostility and to some extent envy toward the people of the Arabian peninsula, and also to try to connect with Europeans as if they are kin, just shows colonial mentality and sense of inferiority not referring to you, but to this idiot Nassim.

[Fractal]

Muslims as a whole have no place in America. The worst MENA group I can think of would be the SSA admixed North Africans who are causing so many problems in Europe. Best would be Christian Levantines.

Agreed. But I dont feel any special connection to the last, but that's because I'm not a Christian. So I say keep them out too.

[Bobby Martnen]

I'm fine with Middle Eastern Christians and Jews in America but most Muslims should stay out

[Smeagol]

Agreed. But I dont feel any special connection to the last, but that's because I'm not a Christian. So I say keep them out too.

The only immigrants I believe America should be accepting right now are White South Africans and Rhodesians. They're of good stock and being treated terribly under black majority rule.

[StonyArabia]

I'm fine with Middle Eastern Christians and Jews in America but most Muslims should stay out

There is significant Yemenite Jewish community in Brooklyn

[Bobby Martnen]

The only immigrants I believe America should be accepting right now are White South Africans and Rhodesians. They're of good stock and being treated terribly under black majority rule.

I'm fine with a very limited amount of immigration from other Western countries. What harm will a couple thousand Irishmen, Australians, or Serbians do?

[Smeagol]

I'm fine with a very limited amount of immigration from other Western countries. What harm will a couple thousand Irishmen, Australians, or Serbians do?

True.

[Arduti]

"Peninsular Arabs" and "Gulf Arabs" being the "truest Arabs" -- yeah right. In antiquity, the Gulf was heavily settled by Kush tribes, Israelite tribes, Ishmaelite tribes, Midianite tribes, etc. None of these are Arabs. Even the "pure" Qahtanites have mixed with Kush tribes given their proximity to Yemen and the Red Sea. Being ARABIZED does not make one an Arab. That is the case for Levantines/Aram, Khaleejis/Kush, Assyrians/Ashur, etc.

[Annie999]

Lebanese are mostly Phoenicians not Arabs; genetics proves it. Taleb attesting it isn't OWD because Phoenicians weren't ''whites'' or Europeans. And Lebanon was fully Romanized before it's conquest by Arabs.
How do phoenincians score in DNA tests? is there a way to know whether you score phoencian or arab? In 23andme there are only 2 categories under MENA; North african and middle east

[JMack]

How do phoenincians score in DNA tests? is there a way to know whether you score phoencian or arab? In 23andme there are only 2 categories under MENA; North african and middle east

23andme is only good to know your ancestry when you are new worlder. To excavate better old world ancestries you need to use more advanced calculators like gedmatch and that stuff. Phoenicians weren't drastically different from Arabs from what I have seen, but they were closer to people like Cypriots and even some Greeks and Italians than to Saudis. Just like modern Syrians/Lebanese.

Phoenicians would probably have a bigger score of East Med and a lower of Red Sea/SW Asian, compared to modern Levantines. But they are still similar overall.

[Lavrentis]

Culturally and genetically, they were probably closer to Greeks than to Arabs.

The Phoenicians were Hellenized at one point. They had a lot of trade with Greeks too, but I'm not sure about cultural similarities. There are no genetic studies regarding the genetic similarities between Phoenicians and other populations as far as I know. But both Phoenicians and Arabs were Semitic populations, so why would they be dissimilar in the first place?

[amoora]

Arab is cultural term yes. However in your case you might have Arabian ancestry from the Ghassanids and of course Levantine peoples. You show slight Arabid traits. Not to mention the Ghassanid intermixed also with Byzantine nobility. Some Lebanese Christians are even from the Banu Makhzum a clan of Quryaish that left Islam for Christianity.That said I don't mind if people don't want to identify as Arab but to use it at of self-hate and hostility is very wrong and demeaning and it comes out of hostility and to some extent envy toward the people of the Arabian peninsula, and also to try to connect with Europeans as if they are kin, just shows colonial mentality and sense of inferiority not referring to you, but to this idiot Nassim.

Which calculator on ged match differentiates Arab DNA? I saw a post on here some time ago about it but I didn't pay much attention to it. On Ancestry DNA I was I think 26% middle eastern but I assume that includes Phoenician, Aramean, Arab, and whatever else.

[RN97]

Reminds me of the "muh central yurup" people here :D

[Mingle]

The Phoenicians were Hellenized at one point. They had a lot of trade with Greeks too, but I'm not sure about cultural similarities.

Similarities definitely would have developed from extensive trade. Also, you said the Phoenicians were Hellenized, meaning their culture was Greekified.


There are no genetic studies regarding the genetic similarities between Phoenicians and other populations as far as I know.

We could use modern day Lebanese as a proxy population. They're closer to Greeks than to Saudis.


But both Phoenicians and Arabs were Semitic populations, so why would they be dissimilar in the first place?

Semitic is mainly just a linguistic term. But even if there were some similarities, their differences would have been much bigger since the Arabs lived in an inland desert without any actual law or government whereas the Phoenicians had their own kingdoms, lived by the sea, had contact with different folk, etc.

[Mingle]

You mean modern day Lebanese? Syrians are about equal it seems. Saudis have a shit ton of SSA which is why they get pulled away from other 'Arab' countries. I don't think they affected the gene pool of modern day Arab countries significantly. I hate this term 'Arab country' or 'Arab' anyways despite not even being MENA myself. Everyone East of Greece is an 'Arab' according to most Americans and Canadians, they are very ignorant here.

I have a Syrian friend and his brother would pass in all southern and eastern European countries.

Yeah, I meant Lebanese

[wvwvw]

Similarities definitely would have developed from extensive trade. Also, you said the Phoenicians were Hellenized, meaning their culture was Greekified.



We could use modern day Lebanese as a proxy population. They're closer to Greeks than to Saudis.



Semitic is mainly just a linguistic term. But even if there were some similarities, their differences would have been much bigger since the Arabs lived in an inland desert without any actual law or government whereas the Phoenicians had their own kingdoms, lived by the sea, had contact with different folk, etc.

After the 7th century up to modern times their culture was Arabized. They have much more in common with other Arabs than with Greeks. The Arabs had been living in Syro-Palestine since Herodotus time.

[Mingle]

After the 7th century up to modern times their culture was Arabized. They have much more in common with other Arabs than with Greeks.

In regards to culture, I was talking about Phoenicians not modern day Lebanese. I think they would have been closer to Greeks than to Arabs.

The only place I mentioned modern day Lebos was regarding genetics.

[wvwvw]

In regards to culture, I was talking about Phoenicians not modern day Lebanese. I think they would have been closer to Greeks than to Arabs.

The only place I mentioned modern day Lebos was regarding genetics.

The Phoenicians had a very different culture at 1000 BC, 400 BC and at various periods afterward.

[wvwvw]

The only place I mentioned modern day Lebos was regarding genetics.

Genetically they are close to Palestinians who are close to Egyptians and other Arabs like Syrians.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

It's good to see these ancient east med people re-owning their heritage again. Is there any recording of their ancient language anywhere that they could remove the Arabic language too.

There might be but the closest thing we have to it is Hebrew and...Arabic ;)

[Mingle]

Genetically they are close to Palestinians who are close to Egyptians and other Arabs like Syrians.

IDK about Egyptians, but I was specifically comparing them to Saudis since the Arabian Peninsula was probably the only place where Arabs lived during the days of the Phoenicians.

[Mingle]

There might be but the closest thing we have to it is Hebrew and...Arabic ;)

They could also standardize their dialect of Arabic and call it the "Lebanese language".

[wvwvw]

IDK about Egyptians, but I was specifically comparing them to Saudis since they the Arabian Peninsula was probably the only place where Arabs lived during the days of the Phoenicians.

That was definitely not the only place they lived. The Arabs were living in Syria-Palestine adjacent to Egypt from 600 BC according to Herodotus.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

They could also standardize their dialect of Arabic and call it "Lebanese language".

You mean like the Maltese did? It would seem silly to everyone to do that, esp since Lebanese dialect has cognates with Syrian, Palestinian and Jordanian Arabic dialects.

[Mingle]

That was definitely not the only place they lived. The Arabs were living in Syria-Palestine adjacent to Egypt from 600 BC according to Herodotus.

Oh right, there were also the Ghassanids. I guess my original statement isn't so accurate then. But they still would have been a minority of Arabs.

[Mingle]

You mean like the Maltese did? It would seem silly to everyone to do that, esp since Lebanese dialect has cognates with Syrian, Palestinian and Jordanian Arabic dialects.

Yeah. But it could help in developing a Lebanese identity/ethnicity. I'm not saying they should, but it is a possibility if they are looking for an excuse to distance themselves from Arabs.

[Voskos]

Some years ago I used to watch Lebanese TV and honestly the Lebos don't really remind of Gulf Arabs in either looks or accent. They're more like Levantine-Mesopotamian type.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

Yeah. But it could help in developing a Lebanese identity/ethnicity. I'm not saying they should, but it is a possibility if they are looking for an excuse to distance themselves from Arabs.

No. It isn’t a possibility. Firstly nobody speaks Phonecian anymore and one of the closest languages we have to it is Arabic so it’s a pointless argument.

[wvwvw]

Yeah. But it could help in developing a Lebanese identity/ethnicity. I'm not saying they should, but it is a possibility if they are looking for an excuse to distance themselves from Arabs.

Who are the Arabs? All Arabs are quite diverse and quite related to one another. Syrians are not any less Arabs than the Saudis who have addititional Yemeni admix or the Algerians who have additional admixtures.

[wvwvw]

Some years ago I used to watch Lebanese TV and honestly the Lebos don't really remind of Gulf Arabs in either looks or accent. They're more like Levantine-Mesopotamian type.

Lots of Gulf Arabs look almost Indian because of their South Asian admixture. They didn't look like that at the time of Muhammad.

[wvwvw]

Yeah. But it could help in developing a Lebanese identity/ethnicity. I'm not saying they should, but it is a possibility if they are looking for an excuse to distance themselves from Arabs.

You can't be a Muslim, speak Arabic and distance yourself from the Arabs, that's impossible. And Arabs are quite diverse themselves.

[Mingle]

No. It isn’t a possibility. Firstly nobody speaks Phonecian anymore and one of the closest languages we have to it is Arabic so it’s a pointless argument.

Standardizing the Lebanese dialect of Arabic is a possibility, but extremely unlikely.

[Mingle]

You can't be a Muslim, speak Arabic and distance yourself from the Arabs, that's impossible. And Arabs are quite diverse themselves.

I don't think most Lebos will want to. I was just mentioning a hypothetical in case they did want to (which they don't).

[Babak]

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-canaanite-lebanese-genetics-20170727-story.html

The DNA of ancient Canaanites lives on in modern-day Lebanese, genetic analysis shows

The study has cultural implications, presenting a unifying message in a society fiercely divided along political and sectarian lines. (July 28, 2017) (Sign up for our free video newsletter here http:///2n6VKPR)
Mira Abed
The Canaanites lived at the crossroads of the ancient world.

In a territory that would later be known as the Middle East, they experienced wars, conquests and occupations over thousands of years. As a result, evolutionary geneticists expected their DNA to reflect substantial mixing with incoming populations.

A new genetic analysis shows that scientists were wrong. According to a study in the American Journal of Human Genetics, today’s Lebanese share a whopping 93% of their DNA with ancient Canaanites who lived nearly 4,000 years ago.

The study also found that the Bronze Age inhabitants of Sidon, a major Canaanite city-state in modern-day Lebanon, had the same genetic profile as people who lived 300 to 800 years earlier in present-day Jordan.

Later known as Phoenicians, the Canaanites have a murky past. Nearly all of their own records have been destroyed over the centuries, so their history has been mostly pieced together from archaeological records and the writings of other ancient peoples.

Archaeologists at the Sidon excavation site have been unearthing ancient Canaanite secrets for the last 19 years in the still-inhabited Lebanese port city. They have uncovered 160 burials from the Canaanite period alone, including children buried in jars and adults placed in sand, said Claude Doumet-Serhal, director of the excavation.

An aerial view of the Sidon excavation site.
An aerial view of the Sidon excavation site. (Claude Doumet-Serhal / The Sidon Excavation)
Evolutionary geneticists are taking the work a step further.

Aided by new DNA sampling techniques, they sequenced the whole genomes of five individuals found in Sidon who lived about 3,700 years ago.

The team compared the genomes of these ancient Canaanites with those of 99 Lebanese people currently living in the country, as well as with previously published genetic data from modern and ancient populations across Europe and Asia.

First, they investigated the genetic ancestry of the Canaanites themselves. They found that these Bronze Age inhabitants of Sidon shared about half their DNA with local Neolithic peoples and the other half with Chalcolithic Iranians. Interestingly, this genetic profile is nearly identical to the one evolutionary geneticist Iosif Lazaridis and his team found last year in Bronze Age villagers near ‘Ain Ghazal in modern-day Jordan.

This suggests that Canaanites were spread across a wide region during the Bronze Age, from urban societies on the coast to farming societies further inland. It also supports the idea that different Levantine cultural groups — such as the Moabites, Israelites and Phoenicians — had a common genetic background, the study authors said.

By comparing the lengths of similar strands of DNA, the researchers determined that the genetic mixing of the Levantine and Iranian peoples happened between 6,600 and 3,550 years ago. If they had more ancient DNA samples from the region, they could come up with a more precise estimate, they added.

The buried remains of a Canaanite adult whose DNA was sequenced in the study.
The buried remains of a Canaanite adult whose DNA was sequenced in the study. (Claude Doumet-Serhal / The Sidon Excavation)
Next, the team compared the Canaanite genome with the genetic makeup of people who currently inhabit the ancient Canaanite cities. So they collected DNA from 99 modern Lebanese people — Druze, Muslim, and Christian alike.

As expected, they found some new additions to the Lebanese genome since the Bronze Age. About 7% of modern Lebanese DNA originates from eastern Steppe peoples found in what is now Russia — an ancestry not seen in the Bronze Age Canaanites or their ancestors.

But what really surprised the team was what was missing from the DNA of today’s Lebanese.

“If you look at the history of Lebanon — after the Bronze Age, especially — it had a lot of conquests,” said Marc Haber, a study leader from the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Hinxton, England. He and his colleague Chris Tyler-Smith expected to see greater genetic contributions from multiple conquering peoples, and they were surprised that as much as 93% of the Lebanese genome is shared with their Canaanite predecessors.

Though a 7% genetic influx from the Steppe seems very small, that number might be covering some hidden complexities, said Lazaridis, who worked on the Bronze Age Jordanian samples but was not involved in the new study.

Not much is known about the migrations of these eastern Steppe populations, he said. If the genomes of the incoming people were only half Steppe, for example, 14% of the Lebanese genome could have come from the new migrants.

Haber and Tyler-Smith said they want to explore this complexity further.

“Who were those eastern migrants? Where did they come from? And why did they migrate toward the Levant region?” Haber said. Analyzing more samples from different locations and time periods could lead to an answer.

The team also wanted to know if the individuals from Sidon are more similar to modern-day Lebanese than to other modern Eurasian populations.

Despite small genetic variations between the three religious groups caused by preferential mating over time, the Lebanese genome is not widely varied. As a whole, the Lebanese people have more genetic overlap with the Canaanites from Sidon than do other modern Middle Eastern populations such as Jordanians, Syrians or Palestinians.

The difference is small, but it’s possible that the Lebanese population has remained more isolated over time from an influx of African DNA than other Levantine peoples, Lazaridis suggested.

An archaeologist sorts pottery at the Sidon excavation site.
An archaeologist sorts pottery at the Sidon excavation site. (Claude Doumet-Serhal / The Sidon Excavation)
The findings have powerful cultural implications, said Doumet-Serhal, who worked on the new study. In a society struggling with the ramifications of war and fiercely divided along political and sectarian lines, religious groups have often looked to an uncertain history for their identities.

“When Lebanon started in 1929,” Doumet-Serhal said, “the Christians said, ‘We are Phoenician.’ The Muslims didn’t accept that and they said, ‘No, we are Arab.’”


Next, the team compared the Canaanite genome with the genetic makeup of people who currently inhabit the ancient Canaanite cities. So they collected DNA from 99 modern Lebanese people — Druze, Muslim, and Christian alike.

As expected, they found some new additions to the Lebanese genome since the Bronze Age. About 7% of modern Lebanese DNA originates from eastern Steppe peoples found in what is now Russia — an ancestry not seen in the Bronze Age Canaanites or their ancestors.

But what really surprised the team was what was missing from the DNA of today’s Lebanese.

“If you look at the history of Lebanon — after the Bronze Age, especially — it had a lot of conquests,” said Marc Haber, a study leader from the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Hinxton, England. He and his colleague Chris Tyler-Smith expected to see greater genetic contributions from multiple conquering peoples, and they were surprised that as much as 93% of the Lebanese genome is shared with their Canaanite predecessors.

Though a 7% genetic influx from the Steppe seems very small, that number might be covering some hidden complexities, said Lazaridis, who worked on the Bronze Age Jordanian samples but was not involved in the new study.

[Incal]

"When crackers destroy a civilization it's horrible. When my people destroy a civilization it's super cool and I get to be proud."

Thank you for proving the point I made in another thread about how tears for the conquered only hides the desire to be the conqueror.



I wonder what your ancestors would have thought of you playing a child's game (Pokemon) instead of knowing how to do something masculine like knowing how to fire a gun, box, or use power tools.

Word.

[Arduti]

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-canaanite-lebanese-genetics-20170727-story.html

The DNA of ancient Canaanites lives on in modern-day Lebanese, genetic analysis shows

The study has cultural implications, presenting a unifying message in a society fiercely divided along political and sectarian lines. (July 28, 2017) (Sign up for our free video newsletter here http:///2n6VKPR)
Mira Abed
The Canaanites lived at the crossroads of the ancient world.

In a territory that would later be known as the Middle East, they experienced wars, conquests and occupations over thousands of years. As a result, evolutionary geneticists expected their DNA to reflect substantial mixing with incoming populations.

A new genetic analysis shows that scientists were wrong. According to a study in the American Journal of Human Genetics, today’s Lebanese share a whopping 93% of their DNA with ancient Canaanites who lived nearly 4,000 years ago.

The study also found that the Bronze Age inhabitants of Sidon, a major Canaanite city-state in modern-day Lebanon, had the same genetic profile as people who lived 300 to 800 years earlier in present-day Jordan.

Later known as Phoenicians, the Canaanites have a murky past. Nearly all of their own records have been destroyed over the centuries, so their history has been mostly pieced together from archaeological records and the writings of other ancient peoples.

Archaeologists at the Sidon excavation site have been unearthing ancient Canaanite secrets for the last 19 years in the still-inhabited Lebanese port city. They have uncovered 160 burials from the Canaanite period alone, including children buried in jars and adults placed in sand, said Claude Doumet-Serhal, director of the excavation.

An aerial view of the Sidon excavation site.
An aerial view of the Sidon excavation site. (Claude Doumet-Serhal / The Sidon Excavation)
Evolutionary geneticists are taking the work a step further.

Aided by new DNA sampling techniques, they sequenced the whole genomes of five individuals found in Sidon who lived about 3,700 years ago.

The team compared the genomes of these ancient Canaanites with those of 99 Lebanese people currently living in the country, as well as with previously published genetic data from modern and ancient populations across Europe and Asia.

First, they investigated the genetic ancestry of the Canaanites themselves. They found that these Bronze Age inhabitants of Sidon shared about half their DNA with local Neolithic peoples and the other half with Chalcolithic Iranians. Interestingly, this genetic profile is nearly identical to the one evolutionary geneticist Iosif Lazaridis and his team found last year in Bronze Age villagers near ‘Ain Ghazal in modern-day Jordan.

This suggests that Canaanites were spread across a wide region during the Bronze Age, from urban societies on the coast to farming societies further inland. It also supports the idea that different Levantine cultural groups — such as the Moabites, Israelites and Phoenicians — had a common genetic background, the study authors said.

By comparing the lengths of similar strands of DNA, the researchers determined that the genetic mixing of the Levantine and Iranian peoples happened between 6,600 and 3,550 years ago. If they had more ancient DNA samples from the region, they could come up with a more precise estimate, they added.

The buried remains of a Canaanite adult whose DNA was sequenced in the study.
The buried remains of a Canaanite adult whose DNA was sequenced in the study. (Claude Doumet-Serhal / The Sidon Excavation)
Next, the team compared the Canaanite genome with the genetic makeup of people who currently inhabit the ancient Canaanite cities. So they collected DNA from 99 modern Lebanese people — Druze, Muslim, and Christian alike.

As expected, they found some new additions to the Lebanese genome since the Bronze Age. About 7% of modern Lebanese DNA originates from eastern Steppe peoples found in what is now Russia — an ancestry not seen in the Bronze Age Canaanites or their ancestors.

But what really surprised the team was what was missing from the DNA of today’s Lebanese.

“If you look at the history of Lebanon — after the Bronze Age, especially — it had a lot of conquests,” said Marc Haber, a study leader from the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Hinxton, England. He and his colleague Chris Tyler-Smith expected to see greater genetic contributions from multiple conquering peoples, and they were surprised that as much as 93% of the Lebanese genome is shared with their Canaanite predecessors.

Though a 7% genetic influx from the Steppe seems very small, that number might be covering some hidden complexities, said Lazaridis, who worked on the Bronze Age Jordanian samples but was not involved in the new study.

Not much is known about the migrations of these eastern Steppe populations, he said. If the genomes of the incoming people were only half Steppe, for example, 14% of the Lebanese genome could have come from the new migrants.

Haber and Tyler-Smith said they want to explore this complexity further.

“Who were those eastern migrants? Where did they come from? And why did they migrate toward the Levant region?” Haber said. Analyzing more samples from different locations and time periods could lead to an answer.

The team also wanted to know if the individuals from Sidon are more similar to modern-day Lebanese than to other modern Eurasian populations.

Despite small genetic variations between the three religious groups caused by preferential mating over time, the Lebanese genome is not widely varied. As a whole, the Lebanese people have more genetic overlap with the Canaanites from Sidon than do other modern Middle Eastern populations such as Jordanians, Syrians or Palestinians.

The difference is small, but it’s possible that the Lebanese population has remained more isolated over time from an influx of African DNA than other Levantine peoples, Lazaridis suggested.

An archaeologist sorts pottery at the Sidon excavation site.
An archaeologist sorts pottery at the Sidon excavation site. (Claude Doumet-Serhal / The Sidon Excavation)
The findings have powerful cultural implications, said Doumet-Serhal, who worked on the new study. In a society struggling with the ramifications of war and fiercely divided along political and sectarian lines, religious groups have often looked to an uncertain history for their identities.

“When Lebanon started in 1929,” Doumet-Serhal said, “the Christians said, ‘We are Phoenician.’ The Muslims didn’t accept that and they said, ‘No, we are Arab.’”


Next, the team compared the Canaanite genome with the genetic makeup of people who currently inhabit the ancient Canaanite cities. So they collected DNA from 99 modern Lebanese people — Druze, Muslim, and Christian alike.

As expected, they found some new additions to the Lebanese genome since the Bronze Age. About 7% of modern Lebanese DNA originates from eastern Steppe peoples found in what is now Russia — an ancestry not seen in the Bronze Age Canaanites or their ancestors.

But what really surprised the team was what was missing from the DNA of today’s Lebanese.

“If you look at the history of Lebanon — after the Bronze Age, especially — it had a lot of conquests,” said Marc Haber, a study leader from the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Hinxton, England. He and his colleague Chris Tyler-Smith expected to see greater genetic contributions from multiple conquering peoples, and they were surprised that as much as 93% of the Lebanese genome is shared with their Canaanite predecessors.

Though a 7% genetic influx from the Steppe seems very small, that number might be covering some hidden complexities, said Lazaridis, who worked on the Bronze Age Jordanian samples but was not involved in the new study.

This entire study proves that admix identity, social identity, national identity are all "murky" and up for interpretation.

Tribal identity is more concrete and scientific, i.e. R1bs and I1s belong here, R1as and I2s belong there, done deal, no drama, be done with it.

[Babak]

This entire study proves that admix identity, social identity, national identity are all "murky" and up for interpretation.

Tribal identity is more concrete and scientific, i.e. R1bs and I1s belong here, R1as and I2s belong there, done deal, no drama, be done with it.

They're basically mostly native with a small steppe component. Makes sense since longbowman has around the same amount of steppe.

[StonyArabia]

Lots of Gulf Arabs look almost Indian because of their South Asian admixture. They didn't look like that at the time of Muhammad.

That's because they are of Baluchi, South Persian and Indo-Pakistani descent, they are not ethnic Arabians who got citizenship before the formation of those nations. That said Bedouin tribes there are dark skinned and did not look like Levantines who tend to be fairer and taller. Also the so called South Asian look can be found in Iraqis, Jordanians, ect because all brown people look Indian, yet on the autosomal level they look very different. I am often mistaken as South Asian or Mestizo. Not to mention there is large amount of South Asian expats there. That's true only for Eastern Arabia, but not interior of Arabia.

https://s7.postimg.org/t285h74nf/Shammara.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://s7.postimg.org/ipluvl0yz/Bedouin_Arab2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

To westerners they will look like south Asians, but they clearly are Semites. They are from the North of Arabia, near Iraq.

[Marmara]

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-canaanite-lebanese-genetics-20170727-story.html

The DNA of ancient Canaanites lives on in modern-day Lebanese, genetic analysis shows

The study has cultural implications, presenting a unifying message in a society fiercely divided along political and sectarian lines. (July 28, 2017) (Sign up for our free video newsletter here http:///2n6VKPR)
Mira Abed
The Canaanites lived at the crossroads of the ancient world.

In a territory that would later be known as the Middle East, they experienced wars, conquests and occupations over thousands of years. As a result, evolutionary geneticists expected their DNA to reflect substantial mixing with incoming populations.

A new genetic analysis shows that scientists were wrong. According to a study in the American Journal of Human Genetics, today’s Lebanese share a whopping 93% of their DNA with ancient Canaanites who lived nearly 4,000 years ago.

The study also found that the Bronze Age inhabitants of Sidon, a major Canaanite city-state in modern-day Lebanon, had the same genetic profile as people who lived 300 to 800 years earlier in present-day Jordan.

Later known as Phoenicians, the Canaanites have a murky past. Nearly all of their own records have been destroyed over the centuries, so their history has been mostly pieced together from archaeological records and the writings of other ancient peoples.

Archaeologists at the Sidon excavation site have been unearthing ancient Canaanite secrets for the last 19 years in the still-inhabited Lebanese port city. They have uncovered 160 burials from the Canaanite period alone, including children buried in jars and adults placed in sand, said Claude Doumet-Serhal, director of the excavation.

An aerial view of the Sidon excavation site.
An aerial view of the Sidon excavation site. (Claude Doumet-Serhal / The Sidon Excavation)
Evolutionary geneticists are taking the work a step further.

Aided by new DNA sampling techniques, they sequenced the whole genomes of five individuals found in Sidon who lived about 3,700 years ago.

The team compared the genomes of these ancient Canaanites with those of 99 Lebanese people currently living in the country, as well as with previously published genetic data from modern and ancient populations across Europe and Asia.

First, they investigated the genetic ancestry of the Canaanites themselves. They found that these Bronze Age inhabitants of Sidon shared about half their DNA with local Neolithic peoples and the other half with Chalcolithic Iranians. Interestingly, this genetic profile is nearly identical to the one evolutionary geneticist Iosif Lazaridis and his team found last year in Bronze Age villagers near ‘Ain Ghazal in modern-day Jordan.

This suggests that Canaanites were spread across a wide region during the Bronze Age, from urban societies on the coast to farming societies further inland. It also supports the idea that different Levantine cultural groups — such as the Moabites, Israelites and Phoenicians — had a common genetic background, the study authors said.

By comparing the lengths of similar strands of DNA, the researchers determined that the genetic mixing of the Levantine and Iranian peoples happened between 6,600 and 3,550 years ago. If they had more ancient DNA samples from the region, they could come up with a more precise estimate, they added.

The buried remains of a Canaanite adult whose DNA was sequenced in the study.
The buried remains of a Canaanite adult whose DNA was sequenced in the study. (Claude Doumet-Serhal / The Sidon Excavation)
Next, the team compared the Canaanite genome with the genetic makeup of people who currently inhabit the ancient Canaanite cities. So they collected DNA from 99 modern Lebanese people — Druze, Muslim, and Christian alike.

As expected, they found some new additions to the Lebanese genome since the Bronze Age. About 7% of modern Lebanese DNA originates from eastern Steppe peoples found in what is now Russia — an ancestry not seen in the Bronze Age Canaanites or their ancestors.

But what really surprised the team was what was missing from the DNA of today’s Lebanese.

“If you look at the history of Lebanon — after the Bronze Age, especially — it had a lot of conquests,” said Marc Haber, a study leader from the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Hinxton, England. He and his colleague Chris Tyler-Smith expected to see greater genetic contributions from multiple conquering peoples, and they were surprised that as much as 93% of the Lebanese genome is shared with their Canaanite predecessors.

Though a 7% genetic influx from the Steppe seems very small, that number might be covering some hidden complexities, said Lazaridis, who worked on the Bronze Age Jordanian samples but was not involved in the new study.

Not much is known about the migrations of these eastern Steppe populations, he said. If the genomes of the incoming people were only half Steppe, for example, 14% of the Lebanese genome could have come from the new migrants.

Haber and Tyler-Smith said they want to explore this complexity further.

“Who were those eastern migrants? Where did they come from? And why did they migrate toward the Levant region?” Haber said. Analyzing more samples from different locations and time periods could lead to an answer.

The team also wanted to know if the individuals from Sidon are more similar to modern-day Lebanese than to other modern Eurasian populations.

Despite small genetic variations between the three religious groups caused by preferential mating over time, the Lebanese genome is not widely varied. As a whole, the Lebanese people have more genetic overlap with the Canaanites from Sidon than do other modern Middle Eastern populations such as Jordanians, Syrians or Palestinians.

The difference is small, but it’s possible that the Lebanese population has remained more isolated over time from an influx of African DNA than other Levantine peoples, Lazaridis suggested.

An archaeologist sorts pottery at the Sidon excavation site.
An archaeologist sorts pottery at the Sidon excavation site. (Claude Doumet-Serhal / The Sidon Excavation)
The findings have powerful cultural implications, said Doumet-Serhal, who worked on the new study. In a society struggling with the ramifications of war and fiercely divided along political and sectarian lines, religious groups have often looked to an uncertain history for their identities.

“When Lebanon started in 1929,” Doumet-Serhal said, “the Christians said, ‘We are Phoenician.’ The Muslims didn’t accept that and they said, ‘No, we are Arab.’”


Next, the team compared the Canaanite genome with the genetic makeup of people who currently inhabit the ancient Canaanite cities. So they collected DNA from 99 modern Lebanese people — Druze, Muslim, and Christian alike.

As expected, they found some new additions to the Lebanese genome since the Bronze Age. About 7% of modern Lebanese DNA originates from eastern Steppe peoples found in what is now Russia — an ancestry not seen in the Bronze Age Canaanites or their ancestors.

But what really surprised the team was what was missing from the DNA of today’s Lebanese.

“If you look at the history of Lebanon — after the Bronze Age, especially — it had a lot of conquests,” said Marc Haber, a study leader from the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Hinxton, England. He and his colleague Chris Tyler-Smith expected to see greater genetic contributions from multiple conquering peoples, and they were surprised that as much as 93% of the Lebanese genome is shared with their Canaanite predecessors.

Though a 7% genetic influx from the Steppe seems very small, that number might be covering some hidden complexities, said Lazaridis, who worked on the Bronze Age Jordanian samples but was not involved in the new study.

Eastern steppe gene could be the result of influx of north caucasians in Middle East during Islamic Caliphate.

[wvwvw]

That's because they are of Baluchi, South Persian and Indo-Pakistani descent, they are not ethnic Arabians who got citizenship before the formation of those nations. That said Bedouin tribes there are dark skinned and did not look like Levantines who tend to be fairer and taller. Also the so called South Asian look can be found in Iraqis, Jordanians, ect because all brown people look Indian, yet on the autosomal level they look very different. I am often mistaken as South Asian or Mestizo. Not to mention there is large amount of South Asian expats there. That's true only for Eastern Arabia, but not interior of Arabia.

To westerners they will look like south Asians, but they clearly are Semites. They are from the North of Arabia, near Iraq.

By Indian looking I had in mind 'Arabs' like the Emir of Qatar, Tamim Bin Hamad Al-Thani.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRRnI8795F6c-WKyCCt3YREoGyTKCRm5PrqcmRSljhk8RTNkJzz

[wvwvw]

In other pics he appears much whiter though which is weird

http://themuslim500.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/000_DV1517775-e1385557588908.jpg

[Babak]

In other pics he appears much whiter though which is weird

http://themuslim500.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/000_DV1517775-e1385557588908.jpg

Looks like a typical arab to me. Arabs mostly mix within themselves than with outsiders. In fact, darker ones mostly resembled the original Arab conquerors.

[wvwvw]

Here dark again

http://c7.alamy.com/comp/HC3BA1/sheikh-tamim-bin-hamad-al-thani-the-emir-of-qatar-smiles-as-he-talks-HC3BA1.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/16gbgp1.jpg

[wvwvw]

Looks like a typical arab to me. Arabs mostly mix within themselves than with outsiders. In fact, darker ones mostly resembled the original Arab conquerors.

How do you explain that in the first pic he looks pakistani but in the other pic Arab?

[StonyArabia]

By Indian looking I had in mind 'Arabs' like the Emir of Qatar, Tamim Bin Hamad Al-Thani.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRRnI8795F6c-WKyCCt3YREoGyTKCRm5PrqcmRSljhk8RTNkJzz

He can pass as Indian, but he still looks Arabian, look at his eyes they are Semitic not South Asian. Like I have said "South Asian" look is common in Iraq, Jordan and even Syria but on autosomal DNA they are Semitic and are very different from true South Asians. To all Westerners brown people look "South Asian"

[Babak]

How do you explain that in the first pic he looks pakistani but in the other pic Arab?

South asian looks are common in the Gulf-arab region. Its just extra Sw asian with negroid admixture.

Theres not enough pakis to change the Arab gene pool significantly.

[zarzian]

That's because they are of Baluchi, South Persian and Indo-Pakistani descent, they are not ethnic Arabians who got citizenship before the formation of those nations. That said Bedouin tribes there are dark skinned and did not look like Levantines who tend to be fairer and taller. Also the so called South Asian look can be found in Iraqis, Jordanians, ect because all brown people look Indian, yet on the autosomal level they look very different. I am often mistaken as South Asian or Mestizo. Not to mention there is large amount of South Asian expats there. That's true only for Eastern Arabia, but not interior of Arabia.

https://s7.postimg.org/t285h74nf/Shammara.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://s7.postimg.org/ipluvl0yz/Bedouin_Arab2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

To westerners they will look like south Asians, but they clearly are Semites. They are from the North of Arabia, near Iraq.


There is an ancient Australoid element in Arabia, quite possibly can be considered the natives of the peninsula and pre-date the Afro-Asiatic Natufian entrance into the region by maybe 60-100k years.

[Arduti]

Kush settled as far as Arabia and India.
I think the Indic look you are seeing in Arabians is actually a Kushitic look, originally.