Should Peloponnesians be viewed as genetically neutral, baseline, prototype Greeks?

[Sikeliot]

By this I mean, if we view Peloponnesians as genetically neutral, everything makes sense.

Mycenaeans had a high amount of West Med admixture, more than most modern Greeks do. They were like Sicilians mixed with Sardinian. Similarly, Peloponnesians have more western type admixture than other Greeks.

Would it make sense to view Peloponnesians as baseline and then from there we can say:

A. Northern and inland mainlander Greeks do have some amount of Slavic ancestry or other Northeast European affinities by comparison, shifting them northeast
B. Sicilians, Calabrese, Cretans, and Dodecanese islanders are similar to Peloponnesians but with extra Near Eastern and less Northern/Northeastern European, shifting them southeast
C. Peloponnesians are genetically less admixed with either and are similar to Mycenaeans, other Italians from the mainland, and the classical Greeks

?

[kleenex]

I’ll go with C based on what I e seen on Gedmatch calculators. Peloponnesians have a minimal to moderate Baltic and/ or Eastern Euro and a negligible amount of Levant (maybe a bit higher Caucusus) compared to the Islands. As far as Mycenaeans are concerned modern Pelponnesians have a higher Steppe component but are relatively close to Iron Age Peloponnesians. I think that the Dodecanese may actually be closer to Mycenaeans. Overall Peloponnesians are close to Central Italians genetically but are not so distant from other Sicilians or Greek Islanders

[Sikeliot]

I’ll go with C based on what I e seen on Gedmatch calculators. Peloponnesians have a minimal to moderate Baltic and/ or Eastern Euro and a negligible amount of Levant (maybe a bit higher Caucusus) compared to the Islands. As far as Mycenaeans are concerned modern Pelponnesians have a higher Steppe component but are relatively close to Iron Age Peloponnesians. I think that the Dodecanese may actually be closer to Mycenaeans. Overall Peloponnesians are close to Central Italians genetically but are not so distant from other Sicilians or Greek Islanders

I don't think Dodecanese are close to Mycenaeans because Mycenaeans did not have much Near Eastern: Dodecanese do. Also, Dodecanese have much lower West Med type DNA than Mycenaeans. Dodecanese, Mycenaeans and Sicilians/Calabrese may plot in the same place on PCA plots but Mycenaeans do not have the same components in the same amounts as they do.

[kleenex]

I don't think Dodecanese are close to Mycenaeans because Mycenaeans did not have much Near Eastern: Dodecanese do. Also, Dodecanese have much lower West Med type DNA than Mycenaeans. Dodecanese, Mycenaeans and Sicilians/Calabrese may plot in the same place on PCA plots but Mycenaeans do not have the same components in the same amounts as they do.

I agree Mycaneans do not have the Levantine input that Dodecanese have but you cannot doubt that Dodecanese have a fairly high Myceanean component with additional Levantine admiixture; Iran in particular.

[Sikeliot]

I agree Mycaneans do not have the Levantine input that Dodecanese have but you cannot doubt that Dodecanese have a fairly high Myceanean component with additional Levantine admiixture; Iran in particular.

I don't know. I assumed they have Levantine input. The better question is why Dodecanese are close to far southern Italians if they do not.

I actually think Dodecanese are mostly pre-Greek in ancestry, i.e. indigenous to their area and separate from Mycenaean or Dorian.

[Tauromachos]

My guess the native Greek part of Peloponese people closer to Mycanaeans"Ancient Southern Mainland Greeks"

Dodecanese closer to Minoans"ancient Cretan and Island population"

[kleenex]

My guess the native Greek part of Peloponese people closer to Mycanaeans"Ancient Southern Mainland Greeks"

Dodecanese closer to Minoans"ancient Cretan and Island population"

Possibly. Nonetheless the ancients and moderns are closely related (on a continuum) based on empirical data.

[Sikeliot]

Possibly. Nonetheless the ancients and moderns are closely related (on a continuum) based on empirical data.

30% or so replacement from Mycenaeans to modern Greeks, most of which is NE European.

I have seen with models someone made on Anthrogenica that Sicilians can be modeled as 40% Cypriot, 40% Greek, and the rest a mixture of Moroccan and French for what it is worth. I suspect Dodecanese could be modeled the same way.

[Tauromachos]

Possibly. Nonetheless the ancients and moderns are closely related (on a continuum) based on empirical data.

Yes and the Mainland-Island division concerning Northern ancestry isn't even that odd as it is said by scientists
that Mycaneans already where slightly more Northern "Steppe" than Minoans other than that they were very close and similar people.

[Sikeliot]

Yes and the Mainland-Island division concerning Northern ancestry isn't even that odd as it is said by scientists
that Mycaneans already where slightly more Northern "Steppe" than Minoans other than that they were very close and similar people.

It is now a scientifically accepted fact that Aegean islanders and southern Italians are closer to one another than to mainland Greeks, and this has to do with the northern components.

[Tauromachos]

It is now a scientifically accepted fact that Aegean islanders and southern Italians are closer to one another than to mainland Greeks, and this has to do with the northern components.

Sta Arxidia mou file

[Sikeliot]

Sta Arxidia mou file

I can't understand you. English, please.

[Tauromachos]

I can't understand you. English, please.

Learn Greek if you want to understand

[Sikeliot]

Learn Greek if you want to understand

Or speak in English on a thread that is not in the Greek section of the forum.

[Tauromachos]

Or speak in English on a thread that is not in the Greek section of the forum.

I can also speak Hebrew to you if you want

I know some words :)

[Sikeliot]

I can also speak Hebrew to you if you want

I know some words :)

Stop being a petulant, antagonistic asshole.