Who is more Western Eurasian genetically?: Amerindians or Kazakh, Kyrgyz?

[Maguzanci]

Or are they equal genetically in terms of Western Eurasian?

Just pondering because I heard that ANE is very highly Western Eurasian-related and that Natives have high Western affinity from ANE which makes like 40-50% of their genome.

Saw a PCA somewhere and that Clovis (an ancient Amerindian) is almost the same position as a Kyrgyz in terms of Western shiftness: https://postimg.org/image/4f5gsb4kd/

Excuse my obsession with Natives plz.

Also on a Global K10 PCA by David, Zapotec, a Mexican Amerindian tribe is located a few positions below the Kyrgyz and close to certain Samoyedic Yeniseians like Nenets, Ket, Selkup who have a lot of Western Eurasian admixture.

[Iloko]

I wonder who would be more Caucasoid in the phenotypic sense through skull measurements

[Maguzanci]

I wonder who would be more Caucasoid in the phenotypic sense through skull measurements

hmm would be interesting

[Maguzanci]

BUMP.

[Leto]

Kazakhs have quite a lot of white blood, Amerindians don't have any.

[Maguzanci]

Kazakhs have quite a lot of white blood, Amerindians don't have any.

Very interesting. Thanks. But doesn't Western Eurasia genetic megacluster some other populations besides White? Isn't ANE genetically mostly Western Eurasian-related?

[Leto]

Very interesting. Thanks. But doesn't Western Eurasia genetic megacluster some other populations besides White? Isn't ANE genetically mostly Western Eurasian-related?
Well, I just put it in a simple way. I don't know. The Amerindians have been in America for over 12,000 years ago, even long before the Neolithic and subsequent migrations, while the Central Asian ethnic groups are less than 2,000 years old. Personally I treat the Amerindians as a completely different race, which is the closest to the East Asians than to any other modern race.

[Token]

Amerindians and Kazakhs are around the same and probably have more Western Eurasian-like ancestry than Kyrgyz.

[Maguzanci]

Well, I just put it in a simple way. I don't know. The Amerindians have been in America for over 12,000 years ago, even long before the Neolithic and subsequent migrations, while the Central Asian ethnic groups are less than 2,000 years old. Personally I treat the Amerindians as a completely different race, which is the closest to the East Asians than to any other modern race.

I see what you mean. I also consider Amerindians their own distinct separate race. When you mean they are closer to East Asians than any other modern race, do you mean East Asians literally as in those from Eastern part of Asia like China, Japan, etc. or do you mean any groups from Siberia, Central Asia to China, Korea to Austronesians and Pacific Islanders, etc.?

[Token]

I see what you mean. I also consider Amerindians their own distinct separate race. When you mean they are closer to East Asians than any other modern race, do you mean East Asians literally as in those from Eastern part of Asia or do you mean any groups from Siberia, Central Asia to China, Korea and Oceania, etc.?

They are not a distinct race, they are basically North Eurasians similar to others Siberians groups that remained in the continent, specially the Kets.

[Maguzanci]

Amerindians and Kazakhs are around the same and probably have more Western Eurasian-like ancestry than Kyrgyz.

Wow so they have the same amount of Western Eurasian-related ancestry? Due to the ANE admixture in Amerindians?

[Leto]

I see what you mean. I also consider Amerindians their own distinct separate race. When you mean they are closer to East Asians than any other modern race, do you mean East Asians literally as in those from Eastern part of Asia like China, Japan, etc. or do you mean any groups from Siberia, Central Asia to China, Korea to Austronesians and Pacific Islanders, etc.?
Northern and Northeastern Asia. Japan, Korea, Northeastern China, etc.

[Leto]

They are not a distinct race, they are basically North Eurasians similar to others Siberians groups that remained in the continent, specially the Kets.
They look very different from any Asian group, especially South Americans. Obviously not the same.

[Maguzanci]

They are not a distinct race, they are basically North Eurasians similar to others Siberians groups that remained in the continent, specially the Kets.

Yes they are one of the main descendants of ancient North Eurasians. Yes according Euclidean distance in Global K10 by Davidski, Yeniseian and Samoyedic Western Siberians like Ket, Selkup, Mansi are one of the closest population genetically to Amerindians.

[Token]

Wow so they have the same amount of Western Eurasian-related ancestry? Due to the ANE admixture in Amerindians?

Yes, the global maximum of ANE ancestry actually occurs in Amerindians and the component have a high West Eurasian affinity, some genetic studies asserts that Amerindians have around one third of their ancestry derived from a Western Eurasian source. Also, Northeast Native Americans shows significant percentages of R1 haplogroups and there's a possibility that part of it can be ancient, before any European invasion took place and it makes perfect sense. Amerindians are basically the purest descendants of MA-1.

[Maguzanci]

Northern and Northeastern Asia. Japan, Korea, Northeastern China, etc.

That makes a lot of sense especially with Siberia and Northeastern Asia. Because Pacific Islanders and SE Asians including Austronesians are genetically very distant from Amerindians. The distant between Amerindians and SE Asians were as much as between Amerindians and many South Asian, Western Asian and European populations.

I saw a Euclidean distance somewhere using nMonte and Yeniseian, Samoyedic speaking Siberians like Ket, Selkup, Nenets, Mansi, etc. were one of the closest Old World populations genetically to Amerindians.

[Token]

They look very different from any Asian group, especially South Americans. Obviously not the same.

They look different because they evoluted in a completely different environment since the Upper Paleolithic, a gap of time sufficient to generate obvious distinctions between two previously phenotypically similar populations.

[Maguzanci]

Yes, the global maximum of ANE ancestry actually occurs in Amerindians and the component have a high West Eurasian affinity, some genetic studies asserts that Amerindians have around one third of their ancestry derived from a Western Eurasian source. Also, Northeast Native Americans shows significant percentages of R1 haplogroups and there's a possibility that part of it can be ancient, before any European invasion took place and it makes perfect sense. Amerindians are basically the purest descendants of MA-1.

Yes. 1/3 Western Eurasian-related ancestry of Amerindians (according to some sources) is almost similar to the amounts of Western Eurasian that Kyrgyz and Kazakh have.

[Token]

Yes. 1/3 Western Eurasian-related ancestry of Amerindians (according to some sources) is almost similar to the amounts of Western Eurasian that Kyrgyz and Kazakh have.

But in their case it's entirely derived from a very ancient population while Kyrgyz and Kazakhs received recent West Eurasian input. Personally, i believe that Ancient North Eurasians were a proto-Western Eurasian population that migrated to Siberia and, there, mixed with a East Eurasian-rich population. I have read this in a genetic study about Native Americans and i find it the more plausible explanation for the obvious Western Eurasian nature of the component.

[Maguzanci]

But in their case it's entirely derived from a very ancient population while Kyrgyz and Kazakhs received recent West Eurasian input. Personally, i believe that Ancient North Eurasians were a proto-Western Eurasian population that migrated to Siberia and, there, mixed with a East Eurasian-rich population. I have read this in a genetic study about Native Americans and i find it the more plausible explanation for the obvious Western Eurasian nature of the component.

I see. Where do you think is the original homeland of these Ancient North Eurasians before they migrate to Siberia?

[Token]

I see. Where do you think is the original homeland of these Ancient North Eurasians before they migrate to Siberia?

Somewhere in Western Eurasia. But one point that contradicts my hypothesis is the fact that osteological evidences suggests that MA-1 was racially Mongoloid. Anyway, i would hold this analysis with suspicion considering that it was conducted by Alexeev in the past century. Its more possible that Ancient North Eurasians were racially Paleo-Caucasoid-Mongoloid as MA-1 pre-dates the formation of the modern Western Eurasian genepool.

[Maguzanci]

Somewhere in Western Eurasia. But one point that contradicts my hypothesis is the fact that osteological evidences suggests that MA-1 was racially Mongoloid. Anyway, i would hold this analysis with suspicion considering that it was conducted by Alexeev in the past century. Its more possible that Ancient North Eurasians were racially Paleo-Caucasoid-Mongoloid as MA-1 pre-dates the formation of the modern Western Eurasian genepool.

Would this mean most Europeans, West Asians, Near/Middle Easterners and South Asians have minor Eastern Eurasian/Mongoloid admix as well from their ANE ancestry?

[Token]

Would this means most Europeans, West Asians and South Asians have minor Mongoloid admix as well from their ANE ancestry?

Not proper 'Mongoloid' (i think you mean East Eurasian because Mongoloid is not a genetic but anthropological term) as ANE is not proper Western nor Eastern Eurasian, a more correct way of describing it would be that modern Western Eurasians have some East Asian-affinity.

[Didac]

Kazakhs by far shouldnt even be a question. There’s a lot of Kazakhs of partial or full russian descent

[Roy]

Kazakhs have quite a lot of white blood, Amerindians don't have any.

We do show though ANA ancestry with Amerindians. But it is too ancient to matter here. And ANA people were not Western Eurasian in a true sense of this word.