Ancient Avars plot with modern Poles?!

[Peterski]

According to this PCA ancient Avars plot with modern Poles (two yellow dots)?!:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sgvuxv3h2p09aju/poster_hinxton.pdf?dl=0

https://s18.postimg.org/z5h1muw47/Screen_Hunter_2075_Nov._22_09.56.jpg

https://s18.postimg.org/d8uim4g95/Screen_Hunter_2076_Nov._22_10.02.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3Vq_vyu4a4

[Peterski]

Avar skulls indeed look Europid:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?223170-gt-426-Avar-(-)-graves-excavated-near-Bratislava

[Peterski]

I wonder what Y-DNA haplogrous did those Avars have? Maybe R1a-M458 or I2a-Din?

[Austrvegr]

Those are most likely Slavs who lived in the Avar Khaganate.

[Peterski]

Those are most likely Slavs who lived in the Avar Khaganate.

This is DNA extracted from culturally Avar graves, probably elite warrior graves.

If it was extracted from culturally Slavic graves, then it wouldn't be called Avar.

[Peterski]

Is it even known what language was spoken by the Avars? I don't think so.

I'm very curious what were their Y-DNA haplogroups. Maybe Polish as well.

[Bosniensis]

I plot with Bulgarians and Romanians, so not related to South Slavs.

[Ülev]

so rather than reunite with Saxony please go back to Northern Black Sea shore
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?227883-Should-Poland-and-Saxony-reunite

[Ülev]

so rather than reunite with Saxony please go back to Northern Black Sea shore
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?227883-Should-Poland-and-Saxony-reunite

that make sense - R1a M-458 renamed Elbe river to Łaba/Laba river like in their old homeland!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Laba.svg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laba_River

go there and to Stavropol Krai

[Peterski]

Many Longobards from Collegno and Szolad plot with Germanic Scandinavians and Dutch. So they were not mixed with locals at all! But some other individuals from plot with Southern Europeans, those were obviously of local Roman origin.

Early Anglo-Saxons plot much closer to Scandinavians than modern English. Davidski's PCA also shows this:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2017/10/genetic-and-linguistic-structure-across.html

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tscMI0fvVEI/WhIOmqfijyI/AAAAAAAAGP8/6jXvyC3mT1QkjBgXwVG3eM9FP1fK3uPlQCLcBGAs/s1600/North_Europe_genetic-linguistic_landscape.png

[Ülev]

el bumpo

[RN97]

This PCA is really old and it's frustrating that a new such study is not being done. It's also frustrating that the genetic variations within populations is not always shown. Such poor coverage of Romanians is really frustrating. Around 18-20 million Romanians and pretty much all samples are from the south and very few.

However it's interesting to see where the Roman plots. Seems to be like modern NW Italians.

[StonyArabia]

They were Avarized Slavs

[Böri]

Situation of Avars upon their destruction was similar to Bulgars. They were overwhelmed inside Slavic mass and probably some Slavs adopted their kurgan culture.
Except the German influenced far west Slavs, most Slavs got civilization aspects in contact with Turkic people. Avars, Bulgars and Khazars.

[Peterski]

Situation of Avars upon their destruction

I think that these two samples are form the 500s, Avar Golden Age - long before their "destruction".


Turkic people. Avars

What is the evidence that Avars were Turkic-speaking people?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Avars#Language


The ethnolinguistic affiliation of the Avars is uncertain.[4][6] Although there is sparse knowledge about the Avar language, scholars have suggested that the Avars could have spoken Iranian,[15] Mongolic,[6] Tungusic,[16][17][18] and Turkic.[20][41][42] A few historians influenced by panslavism suggest that over time Slavic became the lingua franca of the Avars.[21]

Looks like panslavism-influenced historians were right, considering that they are genetically Polish.

Well, certainly they don't look genetically like Mongolic, Tungusic or Turkic peoples.

[Böri]

City of the Sun: Development and Popular Resistance in the Pre-Modern West
By Michael Martin
p.155
https://i.hizliresim.com/ZOaVRo.jpg

[Peterski]

There is only little evidence that they were Turkic. This is nothing certain.

Modern Avars speak a Northeast Caucasian language, unrelated to Turkic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avars_(Caucasus)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avar_language

[StonyArabia]

There is only little evidence that they were Turkic. This is nothing certain.

Modern Avars speak a Northeast Caucasian language, unrelated to Turkic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avars_(Caucasus)


Caucasian Avars are not the same as Eurasian Avars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avar_language

[Peterski]

However it's interesting to see where the Roman plots. Seems to be like modern NW Italians.

This Roman is from Collegno (there are 23 samples from Collegno, including 1 from Roman-era and 22 from Longobard-era).

Collegno is in NW Italy. So this just shows that modern NW Italians are genetically the same as Roman-era NW Italians.

But some of Longobard-era samples from Collegno were genetically like modern Scandinavians. So still unmixed with locals.

[RN97]

This Roman is from Collegno (there are 23 samples from Collegno, including 1 from Roman-era and 22 from Longobard-era).

Collegno is in NW Italy. So this just shows that modern NW Italians are genetically the same as Roman-era NW Italians.

But some of Longobard-era samples from Collegno were genetically like modern Scandinavians. So still unmixed with locals.

Which sorta shows that it is Germans, not Italians that lack genetic continuity from their ancestors lulz.

[kingjohn]

but the red component which is high in some collegno
they use tuscany as reference that mean
that north italian back in the day were like tuscan .... :)

[Peterski]

but the red component which is high in some collegno
they use tuscany as reference that mean
that north italian back in the day were like tuscan .... :)

Which also explains why so many British people score some "Tuscan" admixture.

This is Roman ancestry from Roman-era Britain.

[kingjohn]

probably living dna tuscan component is the real deal roman ancestery :)
you are correct
very interesting thanks
p.s
by the way the alemani which is a germanic tribe from graves from 700 ad
in southern germany if i remember correctly 5 of the remains were autosomaly eastern europeans slavs .
so from back in the days the autosomal picture changed
so it is not only those avars remain that match slavs autosomaly.
source: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32807-Upcoming-paper-on-Alemannic-dna

[Böri]

That turns out really funny. It's known they were few number but unproportionally stronger compared to their demographics.
Avars were a Turkic elite class who civilizaed the then uncivilized Slavic masses and gave them a burial culture beside, certainly other aspects of civilization such as statehood organization, nobility etc.
Slavs back then weren't civilized people like they are today. They just left the forest where their ancestors were Hunting and Gathering for thousands of years and eating dead animal flesh etc.

The tested sample here was just culturally Avaricized Slav looking at his results.

[Danaan]

I knew it and that's the reason I called Rethel a 'Pecheneg'
[the term Pecheneg is wrong because Avars would have been Oghurs (?) but it's good enough for Apricity]

[katniss]

That turns out really funny. It's known they were few number but unproportionally stronger compared to their demographics.
Avars were a Turkic elite class who civilizaed the then uncivilized Slavic masses and gave them a burial culture beside, certainly other aspects of civilization such as statehood organization, nobility etc.
.

:speechless-smiley-0
Stop writing nonsense and stupidities.

[Danaan]

Though to be frank in 'De Administrando Imperio', those whom the author calls 'Avars' seem like Slavs.

. Ἦσαν δὲ τῷ τότε Γότθοι καὶ ἔθνη πολλά τε καὶ μέγιστα μέχρι
τοῦ ∆ανουβίου ἐν τοῖς ὑπερβορείοις τόποις κατῳκισμένα. Τούτων δὲ ἀξιολογώτερά
εἰσι Γότθοι, Ἰσίγοτθοι, Γήπαιδες καὶ Οὐανδῆλοι, ἐν ὀνόμασι μόνον καὶ οὐδενὶ ἑτέρῳ
διαλλάττοντες, μιᾷ διαλέκτῳ κεχρημένοι· πάντες δὲ τῆς Ἀρείου ὑπάρχουσι
κακοπιστίας. Οὗτοι ἐπ' Ἀρκαδίου καὶ Ὁνωρίου τὸν ∆ανούβιν διαβάντες, ἐν τῇ τῶν
Ῥωμαίωνγῇ κατῳκίσθησαν.
...
Καὶ οἱ μὲν Γήπαιδες, ἐξ ὧν ὕστερον διῃρέθησαν
Λογγίβαρδοι καὶ Ἄβαρεις, τὰ περὶ Σιγγιδῶνα καὶ Σέρμιον χωρία ᾤκησαν. Οἱ δὲ
Ἰσίγοτθοι μετὰ Ἀλάριχον τὴν Ῥώμην πορθήσαντες,εἰς Γαλλίας ἐχώρησαν καὶ τῶν
ἐκεῖ ἐκράτησαν. Γότθοι δὲ Παννονίαν ἔχοντες πρῶτον, ἔπειτα ιθʹ ἔτει τῆς βασιλείας
Θεοδοσίου τοῦ νέου, ἐπιτρέψαντος, τὰ τῆς Θρᾴκης χωρία ᾤκησαν, καὶ ἐπὶ νηʹ
χρόνους ἐν τῇ Θρᾴκῃ διατρίψαντες, Θευδερίχου ἡγεμονεύοντος αὐτῶν πατρικίου
καὶ ὑπάτου, Ζήνωνος αὐτοῖς ἐπιτρέψαντος, τῆς ἑσπερίου βασιλείας ἐκράτησαν. Οἱ δὲ
Οὐανδῆλοι Ἀλανοὺς ἑταιρισάμενοι καὶ Γερμανούς, τοὺς νῦν καλουμένους Φράγγους,
διαβάντες τὸν † Νῖνον † ποταμόν, ἡγούμενον ἔχοντες Γογίδισκλον, κατῴκησαν ἐν
Ἱσπανίᾳ, πρώτῃ οὔσῃ χώρᾳ τῆς Εὐρώπης ἀπὸ τοῦ ἑσπερίου Ὠκεανοῦ

Based on that text Gepids, Avars, Longobards, Wends, Goths etc spoke 'the same language' (and were different from Germans=Franks and Alans)

In other parts of the text: Attila is labeled 'king of Avars', Avars are labeled as 'Sclavi'

[Ülev]

Though to be frank in 'De Administrando Imperio', those whom the author calls 'Avars' seem like Slavs.

. Ἦσαν δὲ τῷ τότε Γότθοι καὶ ἔθνη πολλά τε καὶ μέγιστα μέχρι
τοῦ ∆ανουβίου ἐν τοῖς ὑπερβορείοις τόποις κατῳκισμένα. Τούτων δὲ ἀξιολογώτερά
εἰσι Γότθοι, Ἰσίγοτθοι, Γήπαιδες καὶ Οὐανδῆλοι, ἐν ὀνόμασι μόνον καὶ οὐδενὶ ἑτέρῳ
διαλλάττοντες, μιᾷ διαλέκτῳ κεχρημένοι· πάντες δὲ τῆς Ἀρείου ὑπάρχουσι
κακοπιστίας. Οὗτοι ἐπ' Ἀρκαδίου καὶ Ὁνωρίου τὸν ∆ανούβιν διαβάντες, ἐν τῇ τῶν
Ῥωμαίωνγῇ κατῳκίσθησαν.
...
Καὶ οἱ μὲν Γήπαιδες, ἐξ ὧν ὕστερον διῃρέθησαν
Λογγίβαρδοι καὶ Ἄβαρεις, τὰ περὶ Σιγγιδῶνα καὶ Σέρμιον χωρία ᾤκησαν. Οἱ δὲ
Ἰσίγοτθοι μετὰ Ἀλάριχον τὴν Ῥώμην πορθήσαντες,εἰς Γαλλίας ἐχώρησαν καὶ τῶν
ἐκεῖ ἐκράτησαν. Γότθοι δὲ Παννονίαν ἔχοντες πρῶτον, ἔπειτα ιθʹ ἔτει τῆς βασιλείας
Θεοδοσίου τοῦ νέου, ἐπιτρέψαντος, τὰ τῆς Θρᾴκης χωρία ᾤκησαν, καὶ ἐπὶ νηʹ
χρόνους ἐν τῇ Θρᾴκῃ διατρίψαντες, Θευδερίχου ἡγεμονεύοντος αὐτῶν πατρικίου
καὶ ὑπάτου, Ζήνωνος αὐτοῖς ἐπιτρέψαντος, τῆς ἑσπερίου βασιλείας ἐκράτησαν. Οἱ δὲ
Οὐανδῆλοι Ἀλανοὺς ἑταιρισάμενοι καὶ Γερμανούς, τοὺς νῦν καλουμένους Φράγγους,
διαβάντες τὸν † Νῖνον † ποταμόν, ἡγούμενον ἔχοντες Γογίδισκλον, κατῴκησαν ἐν
Ἱσπανίᾳ, πρώτῃ οὔσῃ χώρᾳ τῆς Εὐρώπης ἀπὸ τοῦ ἑσπερίου Ὠκεανοῦ

Based on that text Gepids, Avars, Longobards, Wends, Goths etc spoke 'the same language' (and were different from Germans=Franks and Alans)

In other parts of the text: Attila is labeled 'king of Avars', Avars are labeled as 'Sclavi'

holy truth!

[katniss]

That turns out really funny. It's known they were few number but unproportionally stronger compared to their demographics.
Avars were a Turkic elite class who civilizaed the then uncivilized Slavic masses and gave them a burial culture beside, certainly other aspects of civilization such as statehood organization, nobility etc.


According to the official history Serbs and Croats came to the Balkan as Byzantine allies against Avars and Avaro-Slavs.
To which Slavic nation Turks gave nobility, state and culture? Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, Serbs, Croats, Slovaks, Czechs... Stupidities wrote by this Turkish clown are ridiculous.

[Peterski]

To which Slavic nation Turks gave nobility, state and culture?

I am 1,5% Türkic!: :rolleyes:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?195528-How-T%FCrkic-are-you-Post-your-Turkic-K11-results

[Böri]

According to the official history Serbs and Croats came to the Balkan as Byzantine allies against Avars and Avaro-Slavs.
To which Slavic nation Turks gave nobility, state and culture? Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, Serbs, Croats, Slovaks, Czechs... Stupidities wrote by this Turkish clown are ridiculous.

Wtf you talk about, I don't have time to lose with ignorant people.
Slavs who are ancestors of Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians were concentrated in modern Hungary.
Turkic Avars, few in number but disproportionately stronger for their numbers overrun the area. Germanic Gepids and Lombards were pushed away and the Slavs were pushed south.
What Byzantines allies you talk about?
Byzantium never ever reached Panonian area.

Avars tho even besieged Constantinople when they were allied with Persians.

Many Slavs got their civilization touch first by Turks. That's stronger in south (with Bulgars) central (with Avars) and east Slavs (with Khazars tho also Viking Rurik effect for East).
Slavs were Hunther Gatherers who left the forests of Poland and east Germany during 6th century. No indication of high civilization.

That's why some Slavs try to find older ancestors like Sarmatians.

[Hudayar]

What about gedmatch results of them?

[Peterski]

Slavs were Hunther Gatherers who left the forests of Poland and east Germany during 6th century

LOL no, they were farmers and herders with Iron Age level of technology:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?227111-Early-Slavic-invention-which-revolutionized-the-world

Slavic culture during their expansion appeared crude and rudimentary because they were like American pioneers in the "Wild West", they colonized heavily depopulated, "wild" areas. See pages 71-72: https://brego-weard.com/lib/ns/The_Archaeology_of_Early_Medieval_Poland_Discov.pd f

[katniss]

Wtf you talk about, I don't have time to lose with ignorant people.


:icon_rolleyes:

[Pahli]

Those results could mean following:

1. The Avars either weren't Turkic, or perhaps the elite was Turkic speaking while the majority of the population was mixed Slavic, Germanic and / or Iranic.
2. The samples aren't specifically Avaric but some Slavic inhabitant

What I find interesting is that the Avars were "slaves" of the Gökturks and escaped them. Not saying that they aren't Turkic but since they are from the Steppes, they are most likely to be either Turkic or Iranic then later Slavicized in Europe.

[Hudayar]

Those results could mean following:

1. The Avars either weren't Turkic, or perhaps the elite was Turkic speaking while the majority of the population was mixed Slavic, Germanic and / or Iranic.
2. The samples aren't specifically Avaric but some Slavic inhabitant

What I find interesting is that the Avars were "slaves" of the Gökturks and escaped them. Not saying that they aren't Turkic but since they are from the Steppes, they are most likely to be either Turkic or Iranic then later Slavicized in Europe.

Avars were a confederation of steppe tribes in Central Asia and Mongolia who opposed Göktürk rule and migrated to Pannonia. Avars in Pannonia were referred to as "Pseudo-Avars" by Göktürks because according to them real Avars submitted to Göktürk rule.
This slav thing is probably b.s and does not represent actual Avars. I suppose they were just Slavs that worked for Avars. Not actual Avars.

[Pahli]

Avars were a confederation of steppe tribes in Central Asia and Mongolia who opposed Göktürk rule and migrated to Pannonia. Avars in Pannonia were referred to as "Pseudo-Avars" by Göktürks because according to them real Avars submitted to Göktürk rule.
This slav thing is probably b.s and does not represent actual Avars.

I'm just wondering whether their population was fully Turkic speaking or mixed Iranic and Caucasian speaking, their elite is most likely Turkic though. Those two samples aren't typical Steppe samples, even the most European shifted Steppe sample from Scytho-Sarmatians don't cluster that closely with Polish people.

[Hudayar]

I'm just wondering whether their population was fully Turkic speaking or mixed Iranic and Caucasian speaking, their elite is most likely Turkic though. Those two samples aren't typical Steppe samples, even the most European shifted Steppe sample from Scytho-Sarmatians don't cluster that closely with Polish people.

It can't be 100% Turkic. Göktürks ruled over different cultures and peoples. Mongolians, Tungusic peoples, Iranics/Scythians and Turkics. It was most likely a multicultural steppe confederation.

[Pahli]

It can't be 100% Turkic. Göktürks ruled over different cultures and peoples. Mongolians, Tungusic peoples, Iranics/Scythians and Turkics. It was most likely a multicultural steppe confederation.

So we can safely assume those two Avar samples are Slavic, they look neither Iranic or Turkic.

[Rethel]

I knew it and that's the reason I called Rethel a 'Pecheneg'

:confused:

[War Chef]

In theory it would take very few generations for an original 50-50% Euro-Asian Avar to dilute his blood by mixing with the most abundant people, proto-Slavs, to levels where the Mongoloid element is near undetectable while still retaining linguistic and cultural elements of the founding father(s). The Gagauz for example are the result of Cuman-Pecheneg elite dominance, while showing less Mongoloid autosomal DNA than Romanians.

[RN97]

In theory it would take very few generations for an original 50-50% Euro-Asian Avar to dilute his blood by mixing with the most abundant people, proto-Slavs, to levels where the Mongoloid element is near undetectable while still retaining linguistic and cultural elements of the founding father(s). The Gagauz for example are the result of Cuman-Pecheneg elite dominance, while showing less Mongoloid autosomal DNA than Romanians.

I request a source pls.

[Dick]

Avar skulls indeed look Europid:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?223170-gt-426-Avar-(-)-graves-excavated-near-Bratislava

Are they sure those aren't "Magyars" or magyarized Slavs. Magyars buried themselves with their horses too.

[Token]

Avar skulls indeed look Europid:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?223170-gt-426-Avar-(-)-graves-excavated-near-Bratislava

They were mainly Europid with some East Asian influence according to craniometric analysis, and this varies according to the site with some of them being even predominantly East Eurasian.

[War Chef]

I request a source pls.

I'm not here to serve you. Unless you snap you fingers and whistle

https://i.imgur.com/SHwAvAy.png

[War Chef]

As if it wasn't obvious:

https://i.imgur.com/bjcOS2b.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/O1tkSqE.png

[Dick]

https://i.imgur.com/O1tkSqE.png

This area is probably the most mixed in Europe, like New world Euro mutts.

[War Chef]

This area is probably the most mixed in Europe, like New world Euro mutts.

Its where West meets East meets South

pretty rad

[RN97]

I'm not here to serve you. Unless you snap you fingers and whistle

https://i.imgur.com/SHwAvAy.png

That study has a very low number of samples from both populations and two of the "Romanians" aren't fully Romanians even as seen by their divergence from other Romanians and SE Euros. If I remember correctly they somehow managed to use two gypsies in that study. Even so that method I don't think is that good at measuring admixture.

[War Chef]

That study has a very low number of samples from both populations and two of the "Romanians" aren't fully Romanians even as seen by their divergence from other Romanians and SE Euros. If I remember correctly they somehow managed to use two gypsies in that study. Even so that method I don't think is that good at measuring admixture.

Dude, even look at your Seya she shows minor Mongoloid DNA. Why the denial/excuses? I'd be jumping for joy if I found out I descend from Attila's rape squads.

[RN97]

Dude, even look at your Seya she shows minor Mongoloid DNA. Why the denial/excuses? I'd be jumping for joy if I found out I descend from Attila's rape squads.

Because Gaguazuses are Turkic and look more mong to me than Romanians. I never deny that Romanians are part mong themselves, just less on average than a Turkic people doesn't sound dumb really.

[Dibran]

Dude, even look at your Seya she shows minor Mongoloid DNA. Why the denial/excuses? I'd be jumping for joy if I found out I descend from Attila's rape squads.

Rape squads lmao. fucked up.

[Dibran]

Because Gaguazuses are Turkic and look more mong to me than Romanians. I never deny that Romanians are part mong themselves, just less on average than a Turkic people doesn't sound dumb really.

A quick google search images begs to differ. Most these Gagauz look Europid. They can pass best in Bulgaria, and generally the rest of the Balkans as well.

[RN97]

A quick google search images begs to differ. Most these Gagauz look Europid. They can pass best in Bulgaria, and generally the rest of the Balkans as well.

It's sadly not easy to find a lot of group pics of them and most do, however some look a bit turkicish;
https://i.imgur.com/RtpQAmU.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/o5ixwwm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/AD0S0GI.jpg
It probably depends on region as well. Maybe some Romanians (specifically south- and/ or northeastern ones) are more mong, but on average they aren't.

[Nanushka]

There is only little evidence that they were Turkic. This is nothing certain.

Modern Avars speak a Northeast Caucasian language, unrelated to Turkic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avars_(Caucasus)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avar_language

That Avars today speak a north caucasian language doesn't mean that they are unrelated to Avar Kaghanate in history; this is like saying Bulgars today aren't related to Bulgar Kaghanate as now they speak a slavic language. This logic is misleading and false, we are all interrelated. As an Avar I can say that the turkic elements in our language and culture is a lot more than you guys can possibly imagine, more will be uncovered with the help of latest research

[Peterski]

According to this PCA ancient Avars plot with modern Poles (two yellow dots)?!:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sgvuxv3h2p09aju/poster_hinxton.pdf?dl=0

https://s18.postimg.org/z5h1muw47/Screen_Hunter_2075_Nov._22_09.56.jpg

https://s18.postimg.org/d8uim4g95/Screen_Hunter_2076_Nov._22_10.02.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3Vq_vyu4a4

Czyli Wielka Polska = Wielka Awaria!:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg4i43GK3pY

[Rethel]

Czyli Wielka Polska = Wielka Awaria!:

Lech was from Panonnia, so it wouldn't be strange.

[glass]

Avars were not ethnic or linguistic group in modern sense of these words. It was corporation of people defined by occupation. IN avar case collecting tribute/raiding rich neighbours. Earlier avars during peak of their power were europeans in genetics and looks, like figures in OP suggests. But slavs who were back backbone of Avar Inc. started to gain their local identities and corporation became infested with asiatic people like turkics which led to unevitable decline, because of trash quality of human material.

[Pahli]

Lol, all North and Eastern Europeans have low levels of East Eurasian, most of it predates Turkic / Iranic presence, its most likely from EHG and later Yamnaya.

[glass]

Many Slavs got their civilization touch first by Turks.
There is one thing that you durks should get, both huns and earlier avars were either proper slavs or another group of satem indo-europeans. With nothing common with durks, that is why they were alpha counquerors and not some donkey fuckers.

[Böri]

Avars might have had some Rourans with them, that's why they were expulsed by Göktürks.
Bumin Khan slaughtered all Rouran ruling class after he received a degrading No answer to his request for a Rouran royal girl to marry :evil
Few of the Rourans who avoided the massacre escaped and joined Avars.
Avars were pushed westwards by Göktürks (Turkic Kaghanate) which reached Crimea by 590 AD.


There is one thing that you durks should get, both huns and earlier avars were either proper slavs or another group of satem indo-europeans. With nothing common with durks, that is why they were alpha counquerors and not some donkey fuckers.

Yeah certainly Attila, Mundjuk, Aybars, Oktar, Karaton, Barsığ, Kursığ, Ellak, Dengizik etc are very 'Indo-European, sounding...


The Huns
By Hyun Jin Kim
page 7, 8
https://i.hizliresim.com/GyyoYN.jpg
https://i.hizliresim.com/ZOO7Vk.jpg


Etymology of Attila's name:

The Grand Strategy of the Byzantine Empire
By Edward Luttwak
p.15
https://i.hizliresim.com/d7ly0V.jpg

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?227365-Attila-and-European-Huns-were-Turkic

[glass]

:picard1:
Another pseudo history from durks filled with 'presumably', 'perhaps' and pure delirium.
Huns had indo-european barbarian customs, these are 3 known words of huns Medos, Kamos and Strava, look at their meaning
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunnic_language. What do they have to do with so called turkic language?
This is pathetic, you durks even trying to make proto-indo-european horsemen durks:picard1:
Real documented turks is beta people like cumans or pechenegs. Avars went down, because slavic core in avar corporation was gradually replaced with subhuman turkics, who were of trash quality people and therefore could not maintain avar's former streignth. Anywhere turks show up degeneracy, stupidity, pollution and decay follow. Four horsemen of apocalypse basiaclly:rolleyes:

[blogen]

Funny discourse, since Szólád was a Langobardian cemetery (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0110793) and not Avar.

[Ylla]

...

[Böri]

Another pseudo history from durks filled with 'presumably', 'perhaps' and pure delirium.
Huns had indo-european barbarian customs, these are 3 known words of huns Medos, Kamos and Strava, look at their meaning
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunnic_language. What do they have to do with so called turkic language?
This is pathetic, you durks even trying to make proto-indo-european horsemen durks:picard1:
Real documented turks is beta people like cumans or pechenegs. Avars went down, because slavic core in avar corporation was gradually replaced with subhuman turkics, who were of trash quality people and therefore could not maintain avar's former streignth. Anywhere turks show up degeneracy, stupidity, pollution and decay follow. Four horsemen of apocalypse basiaclly:rolleyes:

You are free to bring proof and quotes for your claims. As far as you cant provide sources, those are just wishful claims.
Oğuric Huns triggered the Great Migration of Nations in the 4th century, the Avars gave last shape to the European ethno-geographic situation during the 6th century.
When they occupied Panonia they pushed German Gepids and Lombards westwards, to their current geograhical locations. They also forced Slavs to flee south and that's how South Slavs came to be.

Then Bulgars and Khazars...
Bulgars created first ever state in East and Central Europe.
Khazers occupied Pontic-Caspian steppe for 4 centuries and they were replaced by Kievan Rus', the Russians adopted statehood from them. Not to mention first ever Rus polity was organized as a.... Kaghanate. Or Slavs referring to Prince Vladimir as 'our Kaghan, back then .

[Peterski]

Funny discourse, since Szólád was a Langobardian cemetery (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0110793) and not Avar.

Avars came there 60 years later, and these 2 Avars are from these later burials.

As for Longobards: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?228562-Longobard-DNA-from-Italy-amp-Pannonia&p=4806707#post4806707

[blogen]

Avars came there 60 years later, and these 2 Avars are from these later burials.

As for Longobards: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?228562-Longobard-DNA-from-Italy-amp-Pannonia&p=4806707#post4806707

Not the Avars were the common link, but the Germans. The common, high level German ancestry between the Poles and the Avars. The Avars conquered the significant residuals of the local German population (Gepids, Langobards, etc.) as the ancestors of the Poles, when the Slavs conquered the Weichsel-valley (Goths, etc), the contemporary territory of Poland.

The great scale assimilation of the Germans by the Avars is a well known fact in the Hungarian and Transsylvanian archeology and anthropology.

Here is an another survey:
https://images.nature.com/m685/nature-assets/srep/2016/160916/srep33446/images_hires/srep33446-f1.jpg
https://images.nature.com/m685/nature-assets/srep/2016/160916/srep33446/images_hires/srep33446-f2.jpg
https://images.nature.com/m685/nature-assets/srep/2016/160916/srep33446/images_hires/srep33446-f6.jpg
source: Maternal Genetic Ancestry and Legacy of 10th Century AD Hungarians - Nature, 2016 (https://www.nature.com/articles/srep33446)

[Leto]

Then Bulgars and Khazars...
Bulgars created first ever state in East and Central Europe.
Khazers occupied Pontic-Caspian steppe for 4 centuries and they were replaced by Kievan Rus', the Russians adopted statehood from them. Not to mention first ever Rus polity was organized as a.... Kaghanate. Or Slavs referring to Prince Vladimir as 'our Kaghan, back then .
Rus' was founded by Varangians and Christianized by Byzantines. Both were white cultures, just northern and southern.

[glass]

You are free to bring proof and quotes for your claims. As far as you cant provide sources, those are just wishful claims.
What kind of sources you need, dumbo? There are more than enough proves on simple wikipedia pages, one of which i even linked.
And your proves of turkic names of huns is just as lame as, claiming etruscans were ancient russian tribe (because its name sounds 'this is russians' in russian) or Stockholm is ancient russian settlemnet Glasshill. That retard LAberia is also famous for linking brainfarts from 19 century, which has became obsolete 100 years ago as proves. Your main problem is imbecile level IQ, all others consequences of this.

Why would presumably turkic huns drink beer? Shouldn't they drink kumis, traditional turkic beverage made of horse milk, sperm and piss?


Or Slavs referring to Prince Vladimir as 'our Kaghan, back then .
Link me a single source where slavs call Vladimir kaghan? You know when geography places you with some retards like turkic speaking tribes you gotta adapt to make them understood who you are. So you gotta use words retards understand and that is very few:rolleyes:


Rus' was founded by Varangians
Не неси хуйню, плиз

[Leto]

Не неси хуйню, плиз
Иди в жопу, эта теория не была никем опровергнута и остаётся основной. Я не знаю, в какую хуйню веришь ты. Наверное, неоязычник-неонацист, ибо этой стране нормальный адекватных правых по типу западных почти нет. Либо либтарды, либо путинисты, либо зига 14/88 славяно-арийцы.

[Rethel]

Не неси хуйню, плиз

Yea, it were Varęgs :)


Иди в жопу, эта теория не была никем опровергнута и остаётся основной. Я не знаю, в какую хуйню веришь ты. Наверное, неоязычник-неонацист, ибо этой стране нормальный адекватных правых по типу западных почти нет. Либо либтарды, либо путинисты, либо зига 14/88 славяно-арийцы.

Writing so primitive posts like this you also do not witness about Russia well.
Also your constant talk about race and how white you are and others are not,
counts you rather to one of these groups... sorry mate, but it it like that.

[glass]

Иди в жопу, эта теория не была никем опровергнута и остаётся основной. Я не знаю, в какую хуйню веришь ты. Наверное, неоязычник-неонацист, ибо этой стране нормальный адекватных правых по типу западных почти нет. Либо либтарды, либо путинисты, либо зига 14/88 славяно-арийцы.
Прошу прощения, я только сейчас заметил этнический состав, я по недоразумения ожидал интеллектуальные способности русского человека. Даже на солнце бывают пятна, а я всего лишь простой смертный.

Yea, it were Varęgs
Rus was founded by tribal union, not Varęgs. Also greeks never mixed rus and varangians, 2 completely different entities.

[Leto]

Writing so primitive posts like this you also do not witness about Russia well.
Also your constant talk about race and how white you are and others are not,
counts you rather to one of these groups... sorry mate, but it it like that.
I didn't ask your opinion on that. My writing style was deliberately provocative, because I'm very frustrated with that stuff. Yes, race is important to me, why not? Just because some lefties constantly tell us race doesn't exist or doesn't matter? I don't support Nazi and neopagan LARPing, 'cause I find those things detrimental to the right-wing oppositional movement (anti-Islamism, patriotism, traditional values, etc.). For example, Poland is doing fine. :thumb001:

[Böri]

What kind of sources you need, dumbo? There are more than enough proves on simple wikipedia pages, one of which i even linked.
And your proves of turkic names of huns is just as lame as, claiming etruscans were ancient russian tribe (because its name sounds 'this is russians' in russian) or Stockholm is ancient russian settlemnet Glasshill. That retard LAberia is also famous for linking brainfarts from 19 century, which has became obsolete 100 years ago as proves. Your main problem is imbecile level IQ, all others consequences of this.

Why would presumably turkic huns drink beer? Shouldn't they drink kumis, traditional turkic beverage made of horse milk, sperm and piss?

I am speechless in front of your 75 IQ level logic! Even Ottomans and Seljuks drank sorts of wine, so where is the problem or maybe that 'proves, they were Italians or so according to you moron?



Link me a single source where slavs call Vladimir kaghan? You know when geography places you with some retards like turkic speaking tribes you gotta adapt to make them understood who you are. So you gotta use words retards understand and that is very few:rolleyes:

Ownage coming.....
3.....
2.....
1.....

Christianization and the Rise of Christian Monarchy: Scandinavia, Central ...
Nora Berend
page 395
https://i.hizliresim.com/6yY7q0.jpg

Hybrid Rule and State Formation: Public-Private Power in the 21st Century
by Shelley Hurt, Ronnie Lipschutz

https://i.hizliresim.com/o6nQ09.jpg

https://i.hizliresim.com/YO3PD2.jpg

[Userius]

Apparently according to genetic testing Gagauz are just Macedo-Bulgarian wannabe Turks.