What is government if words have no meaning?

[Loddfafner]

It seems that the crazy kid shot the congresswoman because she did not properly answer the question posed in the title of this thread, according to this post: (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=327996&postcount=56)


(Bryce) Tierney, who's also 22, recalls Loughner complaining about a Giffords event he attended during that period (2007) … Tierney notes it was a significant moment for Loughner: "He told me that she opened up the floor for questions and he asked a question. The question was, 'What is government if words have no meaning?' "

Giffords' answer, whatever it was, didn't satisfy Loughner. "He said, 'Can you believe it, they wouldn't answer my question,' and I told him, 'Dude, no one's going to answer that,'" Tierney recalls. "Ever since that, he thought she was fake, he had something against her."

Would anyone like to take a stab at answering the question? On Apricity at least, the consequences of a wrong answer are not so dire.

[Psychonaut]

His question is more than a little vague.

Is he asking about how government (and social communication I suppose) are capable of functioning in Berkeley or Hume's world, where words and their meanings can only signify ideal signifiers? Or is he trying to make a point about the dangers of relativism in a group consensus model of government? Or something else altogether?

[poiuytrewq0987]

I think that means something to this line. How can the government be the government if they continue to be hollow to us..?

[Loddfafner]

I took it as either a koan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koan) without a real answer, or a statement of an extreme Sapir-Whorf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir%E2%80%93Whorf_hypothesis) position in which language determines social structure and is in effect a carrier of power relations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism).

[Magister Eckhart]

Government is the source of meaning for all words, droogs.

[NordicPower]

If words have no meaning, then government would have to rely on brute force.

[SwordoftheVistula]

She should have answered "what is the point of responding if words have no meaning?"

[Adalwolf]

'What is government if words have no meaning?'

The same thing it has always been. Power hungry institutions which offer an exaggerated sense of security to the minions.

[2DREZQ]

Alternate question: "How many days is Algebra if light green is 1.5 metric tonnes?"

Having worked with people confined to the Psych ward, I can tell you that even clearly worded questions and statements often do not mean what they appear to mean.
What normally functioning brain can understand the convoluted processes of the abnormal mind?

[Magister Eckhart]

Alternate question: "How many days is Algebra if light green is 1.5 metric tonnes?"

Having worked with people confined to the Psych ward, I can tell you that even clearly worded questions and statements often do not mean what they appear to mean.
What normally functioning brain can understand the convoluted processes of the abnormal mind?

Well if one is carefully trained one can make greater sense of the abnormal brain, but only under observation. This is why we need more extensive and advanced asylums for the insane. I bet this whole show could have been prevented with some electro-shock therapy.

[2DREZQ]

Well if one is carefully trained one can make greater sense of the abnormal brain, but only under observation. This is why we need more extensive and advanced asylums for the insane. I bet this whole show could have been prevented with some electro-shock therapy.

Or someone in the crowd who was a teensy-bit faster on the draw.

[Magister Eckhart]

Or someone in the crowd who was a teensy-bit faster on the draw.

Indeed, or simply more people armed with concealed firearms to return fire rather than simply jumping on the shooter.

I still say the best solution is to forcibly remove insane persons from society and lock them away. This leftist idea that somehow we can make aberrations function in society is the direct cause of events like this. The insane belong in asylums, kept away from the rest of us to maintain order and social safety. The fact that insane asylums have been shut down is an explicit dereliction of duty on the part of the government.

[2DREZQ]

Indeed, or simply more people armed with concealed firearms to return fire rather than simply jumping on the shooter.

I still say the best solution is to forcibly remove insane persons from society and lock them away. This leftist idea that somehow we can make aberrations function in society is the direct cause of events like this. The insane belong in asylums, kept away from the rest of us to maintain order and social safety. The fact that insane asylums have been shut down is an explicit dereliction of duty on the part of the government.

A very strong case can be made for doing so.

However; I worry about HOW and by WHOM such decisions are made.

Quite a few Apricitians might find their world shrunken to four padded walls under the wrong government.

But, to attempt to prevent the one madman from acting out by restricting the access of 200 million adult citizens to add to the private stockpile of (possibily) half a billion firearms is just absurd on the face of it.

[Magister Eckhart]

A very strong case can be made for doing so.

However; I worry about HOW and by WHOM such decisions are made.

Quite a few Apricitians might find their world shrunken to four padded walls under the wrong government.

But, to attempt to prevent the one madman from acting out by restricting the access of 200 million adult citizens to add to the private stockpile of (possibily) half a billion firearms is just absurd on the face of it.

Well that is always a problem; after all, in the Soviet Union opponents of the regime were dubbed "insane". But at the same time, we have means to determine non-functional insanity right now, we just choose not to implement it effectively. We know how to recognise Schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and other various forms of neurosis that are far beyond the point of merely being highly gullible when it comes to UFOs.

If we were to apply present measurements of insanity, or even turn back the clock to the 1950s and use those standards for neuroses, we could reasonably determine asocial types and nonfunctionals and be able to separate them from society and prevent them from breeding, with little or no risk to individuals who simply hold fringe political opinions. The key in my opinion--and mark this because it's the only time you will ever hear me say it-- is to leave it to scientists.

[2DREZQ]

If we were to apply present measurements of insanity, or even turn back the clock to the 1950s and use those standards for neuroses, we could reasonably determine asocial types and nonfunctionals and be able to separate them from society and prevent them from breeding, with little or no risk to individuals who simply hold fringe political opinions. The key in my opinion--and mark this because it's the only time you will ever hear me say it-- is to leave it to scientists.

I'm glad I was sitting down.

The politically impractical choice vs the practically impossible choice vs just admitting that, with 6.4 billion people on this rock all with free will, sometimes your just going to have bad stupid crap happen.

[Breedingvariety]

It is a hit over your head.