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LoLeL
11-28-2017, 11:17 AM
Ignore current North Korea because my question is about all Koreans and their history before the appearance of modern states North and South Korea.

Chinese and Japanese were always involved in wars. Now Japanese are not similar to their past, but Chinese have one of the strongest armies in the world. But I never heard anything about warrior stuff of Koreans. Were they peaceful farmers and sedentary people in the most eras of their history?

Smeagol
11-28-2017, 11:28 AM
No, they fought a lot of wars too. Just read the wikipedia article on Korea's history.

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
11-28-2017, 11:54 AM
They had hundreds of wars during their history as well but in all honesty they were most of the times invaded and not the invaders.

Taiji
11-28-2017, 03:50 PM
If I'm not mistaken, they had their warring periods and warring kingdoms (Silla, Baekje, Goguryo). So in essence, not that different from the Chinese and Japanese.

zhaoyun
11-28-2017, 08:23 PM
No, they just had the unfortunate luck of being stuck in between much more powerful neighbors. Koreans aren't peaceful people though LOL

If Korea was in Latin America, Africa or even parts of Europe, it'd be a great power. But in East Asia, many huge powers abound.

StonyArabia
11-28-2017, 08:27 PM
No East Asians have had their wars, some of their wars would make the wars in Europe look like child's play

zhaoyun
11-28-2017, 08:31 PM
No East Asians have had their wars, some of their wars would make the wars in Europe look like child's play

In the Warring States period, many of the rival Chinese states already had standing armies of over 1 million and battles where hundreds of thousands were killed. Even massacres where tens of thousands were slaughtered in one place.

Korea had their own version during the period of the Three Kingdoms (Korean version, China also had one that was more famous), of course their wars were on a much smaller scale than China's.

LoLeL
11-28-2017, 09:20 PM
No, they just had the unfortunate luck of being stuck in between much more powerful neighbors. Koreans aren't peaceful people though LOL

If Korea was in Latin America, Africa or even parts of Europe, it'd be a great power. But in East Asia, many huge powers abound.

So they had potential but failed due to their powerful neighbors, right? I thought they were always just defenders and defended their own region.

Mikula
11-28-2017, 09:35 PM
No, they just had the unfortunate luck of being stuck in between much more powerful neighbors. Koreans aren't peaceful people though LOL

If Korea was in Latin America, Africa or even parts of Europe, it'd be a great power. But in East Asia, many huge powers abound.

Therefore Korea deserves our respect for surviving their culture despite its geopolitical location.
:thumb001:

zhaoyun
11-29-2017, 05:47 AM
Therefore Korea deserves our respect for surviving their culture despite its geopolitical location.
:thumb001:

Koreans are a great people. They were cursed geographically, but they are a tremendous culture. I feel closest to them ethnically compared to any other Asian group.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpYq1lSce1U

Mingle
11-29-2017, 06:05 AM
Therefore Korea deserves our respect for surviving their culture despite its geopolitical location.
:thumb001:

Their culture would have survived even if they were conquered by China since the cultures in south-central China are alive and well despite being part of China for over a thousand years. But yeah, they deserve props for maintaining their independence. They almost got conquered by the Japanese once, but they had a legendary general named Yi Sun-sin (known as Admiral Yi) that repelled the Japanese invaders in four big campaigns. In many battles, he had inferior equipment and was massively outnumbered. One of the tactics he'd use was trying to trick the Japanese warships into going different directions, splitting them up, and then attacking them separately with cannons. The Japanese once even made it all the way to the Korean border (where they slaughtered so many Koreans that they had to cut off their noses to bring back home as bounty since so many bodies wouldn't fit in the boats), but after defeating them at the sea, they were eventually repelled and driven back to Japan. Also, this was Japan after it finally got unified. Admiral Yi is seen as a national hero cause of this. Also, one thing about him is that he almost didn't make it as commander. He was relatively old when he first got the position but he got sacked later cause one of his jealous colleagues lied about to try become commander, but he did poorly against the Japanese so Yi was reinstated (he had no prior naval training but got called up cause he impressed as a border guard against the Jurchens).

Mingle
11-29-2017, 06:12 AM
So they had potential but failed due to their powerful neighbors, right? I thought they were always just defenders and defended their own region.

The Hamgyong region of North Korea was originally Jurchen/Machu until fairly recently afaik. Also, the original language of North Korea during the Gojoseon and Balhae period is disputed and may have been Tungusic.

LoLeL
11-29-2017, 06:15 AM
What I like about Koreans is this:
South Korea: a model of development? (https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2011/nov/28/south-korea-development-model)

After the Korean war, South Korea was one of the world's poorest countries with only $64 per capita income. Economically, in the 1960s it lagged behind the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) – currently holding elections marred by violence . Since then the country's fortunes have diverged spectacularly. South Korea now belongs to the rich man's club, the OECD development assistance committee (DAC). The DRC has gone backwards since independence and, out of 187 countries, ranked bottom in the 2011 Human Development Index.

Making a poor third world country a first world one.

zhaoyun
11-29-2017, 06:30 AM
What I like about Koreans is this:
South Korea: a model of development? (https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2011/nov/28/south-korea-development-model)


Making a poor third world country a first world one.

All East Asian countries went through this phase. China is in the middle of it right now.

LoLeL
11-29-2017, 06:43 AM
All East Asian countries went through this phase. China is in the middle of it right now.

Other Asian countries should learn from them, especially the ones in the West side of that continent.

zhaoyun
11-29-2017, 06:54 AM
Other Asian countries should learn from them, especially the ones in the West side of that continent.

Very different cultures, it will be near impossible to replicate that same model. Vietnam is probably the next country that will follow in their footsteps though since they are a Confucian based society.

LoLeL
11-29-2017, 07:06 AM
Very different cultures, it will be near impossible to replicate that same model. Vietnam is probably the next country that will follow in their footsteps though since they are a Confucian based society.

Yeah, a 100% similar model does not work for all countries. What I say is other countries can learn from East Asia and adapt their own models which work for them.

glass
11-29-2017, 08:59 AM
In the Warring States period, many of the rival Chinese states already had standing armies of over 1 million and battles where hundreds of thousands were killed. Even massacres where tens of thousands were slaughtered in one place.

I believe that is highly exaggerated figures how it was possible to supply armies nubmering million soldiers? That is like ancient greeks 'estimated' persian armies of million(s) soldiers streignth, but todays historians believe those greko-persian battles were not as epic and somewhat even numbers wise.

zhaoyun
11-29-2017, 03:37 PM
I believe that is highly exaggerated figures how it was possible to supply armies nubmering million soldiers? That is like ancient greeks 'estimated' persian armies of million(s) soldiers streignth, but todays historians believe those greko-persian battles were not as epic and somewhat even numbers wise.

China's population was already far higher.

I said they had battles with several hundreds of thousands, not millions. And Chinese bureaucracy back then was already quite efficient, the numbers were accurate.

Taiji
11-29-2017, 05:35 PM
In the Warring States period, many of the rival Chinese states already had standing armies of over 1 million and battles where hundreds of thousands were killed. Even massacres where tens of thousands were slaughtered in one place. Please note that we should always be careful when speaking of numbers such as this. History is always romanticized and the deeds of men exaggerated. That "million" figure might not be literal, and it could be used as an adjective instead.


China's population was already far higher. Not really. If I'm not mistaken, the maximum population Han Dynasty China for example was around 58 million. More recent research suggests the Roman Empires population peaked between 70 to 100 million.


I said they had battles with several hundreds of thousands, not millions. But I think he was talking about the standing army of "over a million"


And Chinese bureaucracy back then was already quite efficient, the numbers were accurate.Quite debatable. Some of the "population losses" in China could be attributed to poor record keeping in the past. Also, many of these figures are based off the words of others and it was not uncommon for generals to exaggerate their numbers to intimidate opponents. Cao Cao almost certainly did that at the Battle of Red Cliffs.


Koreans are a great people. They were cursed geographically, but they are a tremendous culture. I feel closest to them ethnically compared to any other Asian group.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpYq1lSce1UTo each his own :laugh:
Despite the horrendous historical and political relations I feel closer to the Japanese than Koreans. I just feel somehow more familiar to them somehow.

Anyways, ethnically I feel closest to them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1oJv8A5vQw

And I know how some, maybe even many overseas Chinese (and mainland Chinese too) hate on the Manchus but honestly without them China would never be as big as it is now. They eliminated many of the traditional threats China faced and to me Manchus are as much a part of China as any "Han".

zhaoyun
11-29-2017, 07:38 PM
Please note that we should always be careful when speaking of numbers such as this. History is always romanticized and the deeds of men exaggerated. That "million" figure might not be literal, and it could be used as an adjective instead.

Not really. If I'm not mistaken, the maximum population Han Dynasty China for example was around 58 million. More recent research suggests the Roman Empires population peaked between 70 to 100 million.

But I think he was talking about the standing army of "over a million"

Quite debatable. Some of the "population losses" in China could be attributed to poor record keeping in the past. Also, many of these figures are based off the words of others and it was not uncommon for generals to exaggerate their numbers to intimidate opponents. Cao Cao almost certainly did that at the Battle of Red Cliffs.

To each his own :laugh:
Despite the horrendous historical and political relations I feel closer to the Japanese than Koreans. I just feel somehow more familiar to them somehow.

Anyways, ethnically I feel closest to them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1oJv8A5vQw

And I know how some, maybe even many overseas Chinese (and mainland Chinese too) hate on the Manchus but honestly without them China would never be as big as it is now. They eliminated many of the traditional threats China faced and to me Manchus are as much a part of China as any "Han".

Well, I consider Chinese minorities to be Chinese in general. I was referring to non-Chinese Asians that I feel ethnically close to.

Visitor_22
11-29-2017, 08:10 PM
Koreans are a great people. They were cursed geographically, but they are a tremendous culture. I feel closest to them ethnically compared to any other Asian group.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpYq1lSce1U

Koreans & Japanese brought most of their culture from Ancient China, didn't they?

Also, traditional Japanese kimono looks strikingly similar to Hanfu, doesn't it?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mZ0MAaXy81Og5-_IWEn51ELXn4SVDizqN56Et449dIZf3HH6d3Qvm2jXaHKqppKh yZsGYnwS9deoqSHNsKhsA_DcxhmJOLADOFSvZRY4o6g8UVVONo 3Tt0l0PMbDbuwSMzrVRQyF

zhaoyun
11-29-2017, 08:13 PM
Koreans & Japanese brought most of their culture from Ancient China, didn't they?

Also, traditional Japanese kimono looks strikingly similar to Hanfu, doesn't it?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mZ0MAaXy81Og5-_IWEn51ELXn4SVDizqN56Et449dIZf3HH6d3Qvm2jXaHKqppKh yZsGYnwS9deoqSHNsKhsA_DcxhmJOLADOFSvZRY4o6g8UVVONo 3Tt0l0PMbDbuwSMzrVRQyF

Yeah, obviously. China was the fountain of East Asian civilization.

Korea is one of the most historically sinicized countries in the world. Even their names are based on the Chinese system, like the Vietnamese.

Senpai
11-29-2017, 08:14 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Koreans are built more durable on average than the others around them. They've definitely had their fair share of wars and conflicts, ancient and modern.

Lurker
11-29-2017, 08:21 PM
Korea is the anti-USA. USA has weak neighbors it doesn't have to worry about (Mexico, Canada). Korea has strong neighbors it always has to worry about (China, Japan).

Gangrel
11-29-2017, 08:24 PM
Koreans were historically hard asses, now they are becoming fags

zhaoyun
11-29-2017, 08:25 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Koreans are built more durable on average than the others around them. They've definitely had their fair share of wars and conflicts, ancient and modern.

Generally Koreans overlap a lot with Northern Chinese and Mongolians, who are taller and stronger built than most other Asian ethnicities. South Korea is the tallest Asian country on average, but their average height is actually still shorter than most Northern Chinese provinces.

It's a miracle honestly that Korea is independent, even if it is divided. All of the other peoples and kingdoms that once existed there were swallowed up by China or Japan or even parts of Russia now. Mongolia got off lucky too, otherwise they would be an autonomous region of China today like Inner Mongolia is.

Visitor_22
11-29-2017, 08:28 PM
Yeah, obviously. China was the fountain of East Asian civilization.

Korea is one of the most historically sinicized countries in the world. Even their names are based on the Chinese system, like the Vietnamese.

Yep... Korea & Japan took or 'stole' almost everything of their traditions, culture etc. from Old China.

Also it's quite interesting that adopted chinese things usually begins with 'Han...' or 'Kan'... at least in Japan. Japanese traditional writing characters - 'Kanji' for example.

But what's seperates Japanese from Koreans is that Japanese usually admit it all as a chinese 'import', while koreans have a tough time admitting it.

Heard a lot of Koreans who say 'Han' term belongs to Koreans only & Chinese have nothing to do with it. They call their country 'Han Gook', call their women's clothes 'Hanbok' etc. 'Han River' flows through Seoul etc.

zhaoyun
11-29-2017, 08:33 PM
Yep... Korea & Japan took or 'stole' almost everything of their traditions, culture etc. from Old China.

Also it's quite interesting that adopted chinese things usually begins with 'Han...' or 'Kan'. Japanese traditional writing characters - 'Kanji' for example.

But what's seperates Japanese from Koreans is that Japanese usually admit it all as a chinese 'import', while koreans have a tough time admitting it.


Heard a lot of Koreans who say 'Han' term belongs to Koreans only & Chinese have nothing to do with it. They call their country 'Han Gook', call their women's clothes 'Hanbok' etc.

Well, to be fair the "Han" that Koreans use is different, it refers to the Han River, this is the character 韓

Han in the Chinese sense refers to the Han Dynasty and it is this character 漢

Koreans probably have a harder time admitting it because modern Koreans are zealously nationalistic, almost like they were religious about it. They are the most nationalistic people in the world today, most likely because they've spent their history fighting off stronger neighbors. But yes, if it weren't for a fluke of history and Korean kings traditionally being the most devoted and friendly client state to succeeding Chinese courts, then Korea would've been absorbed as a Chinese province a long time ago.

Taiji
12-01-2017, 02:48 PM
Well, I consider Chinese minorities to be Chinese in general. I was referring to non-Chinese Asians that I feel ethnically close to.I was thinking about it in an ethnic sense, but no matter. If that's the case then excluding overseas Chinese groups I probably feel closer to these people:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/11/22/article-1088581-02879EB0000005DC-242_468x388.jpg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XlrLOdM0acc/V8G9HDx1PxI/AAAAAAAAAR0/zUwhRKSoRq8YLoxKCkBren5T5-WM304HwCLcB/s1600/Nabin-Babu-Gurungs-photography-Sunuwar-culture-3-of-9.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LG1sqHtzyRw/maxresdefault.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e4/da/1f/e4da1f3ecd52f79584b8810cc65e850a.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xv1vZxECsmc/UETjWmSvVYI/AAAAAAAAACU/bh-3HJIjGj0/s1600/chabrung.jpg
https://www.myanmartour.com/userfiles/image/kayin-people-myanmar.jpg
https://dc-cdn.s3-ap-southeast-1.amazonaws.com/dc-Cover-4sagbls1v65djlugl7rhbabjl6-20160509153111.Medi.jpeg
https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14600836_918856608245657_2786671644273181923_n.jpg ?oh=e98addad3d4f1ba286bfbd9cc2e7304f&oe=5A9AFDD5
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f9/15/e4/f915e4d6c5bc791a673c437fe847e062--indian-crafts-harvest-festivals.jpg