Is the Universe Only 6,000 years old? Young Earth Creationists Say Yes!

[Kazimiera]

Is the Universe Only 6,000 years old? Young Earth Creationists Say Yes!

Source: http://www.ancient-origins.net/human-origins-religions/universe-only-6000-years-old-young-earth-creationists-say-yes-008146?nopaging=1

http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/field/image/creationism.jpg

Although most mainstream scientists and most of the developed world now accept the theory of evolution and the scientifically established age of Earth and the universe, there is still a group of people that resist the status quo and insist, based on a particular literal interpretation of Genesis 1-11 in the Hebrew Bible, that the universe is only 6,000 years old and was created in six literal days. As of 2014, 42% of Americans believe that the universe was created about 10,000 years ago and that all life was created more or less in its present form at that time. This has, of course, been a common belief in Christian circles for most of the history of the faith, but the modern Young Earth Creationist movement has relatively recent origins in the Seventh Day Adventist movement. The prevalence of Young Earth Creationism in the United States is also related to the history of Christianity in the United States, from the founding of the Republic to the culture wars which have raged for the past few decades.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/the-Creation-of-Adam.jpg?itok=-OjD1rhe
‘The Creation of Adam’ (c. 1511) by Michelangelo.

Guessing and Dating the Age of the Universe

For the first 1700 years of Christian history, belief in a literal six-day creation and a world that was a few thousand years old was widespread within Christendom. This is because, until the early Modern Period, there was no reason to think otherwise. The early Church Fathers and Medieval theologians did not know about radiometric dating or how rock layers formed, so a few thousand years was a reasonable guess for the age of the universe.

In 1650, the Anglican archbishop James Ussher calculated that the world was created around 4004 BC based on the genealogies recorded in the book of Genesis. In terms of what was known about human history and the history of the universe at the time, this was a perfectly reasonable date. It was compatible with the science of the day.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/Portrait-of-James_0.jpg
Portrait of James Ussher by Peter Lely.

Problems with this interpretation began to arise in the 18th century, when scientists began to study geological formations and found that they had been laid down slowly over long periods of time rather than rapidly in a great flood as described in the book of Genesis. This concept is today referred to as deep time. Deep time was further popularized by Charles Lyell. By the early 19th century, almost all geologists had embraced deep time, including geologists who were professing Christians. These Christian geologists did not originally see belief in long ages as conflicting with the Bible.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/Geological-time-spiral.jpg?itok=baKa6kPy
Geological time spiral.

Denial of Deep Time Emerges

Between 1910 and 1915, a group of conservative Evangelical Christians published The Fundamentals which laid out what they believed to be the fundamentals of the Protestant Christian faith. This launched the Fundamentalist movement. One thing that might surprise many people considering the modern connotations of the term “fundamentalist” is that the leaders of the Fundamentalist movement did not have a problem with evolution or deep time. One of the original Fundamentalists, Benjamin B. Warfield, a prominent conservative theologian of the day, even talked about how evolution could be the process used by God to create life.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/Charles-Darwin-with-an-ape.jpg
As evolution became widely accepted in the 1870s, caricatures of Charles Darwin with an ape or monkey body symbolized evolution.

It was not until the 1960s that denial of deep time and evolution became prevalent in Evangelical circles in the United States. If this is the case, then where did the Young Earth Creationist movement come from? Why did the position of many American Evangelicals shift so dramatically?

Modern Young Earth Creationists

Although most conservative Christians did not reject evolution or deep time in the early 20th century, there was one group that did, the Seventh Day Adventists (SDA). The Seventh Day Adventists are an unusual but nonetheless theologically orthodox sect of Christianity which was founded by the prophetess Ellen White in 1863. One of their more visible beliefs is that church services should be held on Saturday instead of Sunday. Ellen White had a series of visions which her followers took to be divinely inspired. Among these visions were visions of how the world was created. From her visions, she concluded that the universe was created only 6,000 years ago in six literal days and that all the rock layers and fossils within them were laid down in a global deluge based on the flood account recorded in Genesis 6-9.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/Ellen-G.jpg
Ellen G. White in 1899.

Seventh Day Adventist scientists, such as the geologist George McCready Price, defended this view with scientific arguments for a young earth and a global flood. These arguments had a significant influence on the writers of the book, The Genesis Flood. That book was written in 1961 by Henry Morris and John C. Whitcomb who both had read the writings of SDA young earth creationists.

This book is most often associated with the beginning of the modern Young Earth Creationist movement. After this book was published, Young Earth Creationism began to become popular in mainstream Evangelical circles. By the 1970s, it was common among conservative Christians in the United States and a few other countries, such as Australia and New Zealand, to reject the mainstream scientific account of cosmic origins in favor of a literal interpretation of Genesis 1-11 which describes the period from creation to right after the flood of Noah.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/Noahs-ark.jpg?itok=oli6RNri
‘Noah’s ark on the Mount Ararat’ (1570) by Simon de Myle.

This movement reached a peak in 1982, when Young Earth Creationists pushed for a creationist science curriculum to be taught in schools. This curriculum would explain natural history from the perspective of a 6,000-year-old earth, a global flood, and the idea that all life was essentially created in its present form. The attempt was ruled as unconstitutional in the famous Mclean vs Arkansas case. Since then, Young Earth Creationism has become less of a force in American cultural life, but a little less than half of Americans still believe in Young Earth Creationism.

Why Did Young Earth Creationism Take Root So Strongly?

One question that can be asked is how and why Young Earth Creationism took root so strongly in the United States. There is a sizeable creationist presence in in Britain, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and a few other countries, but Christian Young Earth Creationism remains a predominantly American phenomenon. What is it about the American cultural and religious landscape that makes creationism particularly attractive to Americans? One possible explanation is how religion fits into American political philosophy.

After the Revolutionary War, churches came to be considered by many people, especially conservative Protestant Christians, as central to the development of a healthy republic. This is partly because the Founding Fathers believed that for a republic to flourish, its citizens had to be virtuous. They believed that the best way to instill virtue in citizens was through the moral teachings of religions such as Christianity, though many of the Founding Fathers themselves would have accepted any religion that had satisfactory moral teachings. Since Christianity was overwhelmingly common in the Thirteen Colonies, they believed that it would be best to encourage Christian morality to instill virtue in American citizens.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/Signing-of-the-Constitution-of-the-United-States.jpg?itok=NtdlWOAH
Scene at the Signing of the Constitution of the United States (1940) by Howard Chandler Christy.

Also, as a byproduct of the rise of American republicanism, all sources of authority that came from the state or a state church came to be viewed with suspicion. One source of authority which was not viewed with suspicion was the Bible because it could be read by anyone and was thus believed to belong to the common people and was therefore democratic.

Because of this and the perceived importance of religion in the maintenance of a healthy republic, the Bible came to be considered central to the continuing prosperity and success of the American nation. As a result, anything that threatened Biblical authority was considered a threat to the social and moral fabric of American society by American conservative Christians.

How Young Earth Creationism is Maintained

During the late 19th and early 20th centuries, liberal theologians and other academics began to question Biblical authority and literal interpretations of the Bible. They advocated non-literal interpretations which, to many conservative Christians, seemed to rob the Bible of its authority and relevance. This was considered a threat to traditional Christianity but probably also to the American republic and to liberty and freedom itself - since a truly free republic was only possible with virtue, and virtue, according to American Christians, came from the Bible.

In response, conservative Christian theologians began to emphasize literal interpretations of the Bible. This preference for a literal interpretation of the Bible gradually led to the acceptance of literal interpretations of Genesis, even ones that conflicted with what was known of human or natural history. Which brings us to today.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/Creation-Museum-in-Petersburg.jpg?itok=Y8y2355m
Display at the Creation Museum in Petersburg, Kentucky, USA.

Thus, it could be said that Young Earth Creationism lives on in America because it is intertwined with the history of American religion and political philosophy and things that don’t necessarily have anything to do with orthodox Christianity itself.

[Ülev]

not only them, R1ethel too

[Rethel]

Ellen G. White in 1899.

Why this witch is a face of creationism here? :picard2:

[Loki]

Only 42% of Americans still resist the millions/billions of years lies? Shocking.

Humans and dinosaurs coexisted, something not commonly known these days anymore.

[Hamlet]

Only 42% of Americans still resist the millions/billions of years lies? Shocking.

Humans and dinosaurs coexisted, something not commonly known these days anymore.

https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.218547752.2032/flat,800x800,075,t.jpg

You can believe in Josh the Jew, but you can't go that far! Didn't Jesus try to eliminate man-made elements of the OT that were irrelevant to the worship of God, and could you not consider this one of them?

Regardless, the science is definitive in this one, and it's pretty easy to understand it (any A-level Physics student can)

[Loki]

Why this witch is a face of creationism here? :picard2:

We should start burning witches again.

[Insuperable]

Only 42% of Americans still resist the millions/billions of years lies? Shocking.

Humans and dinosaurs coexisted, something not commonly known these days anymore.

You are trolling. From an atheist to a young earth creationist in a short time.

[Loki]

https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.218547752.2032/flat,800x800,075,t.jpg

You can believe in Josh the Jew, but you can't go that far! Didn't Jesus try to eliminate man-made elements of the OT that were irrelevant to the worship of God, and could you not consider this one of them?

Regardless, the science is definitive in this one, and it's pretty easy to understand it (any A-level Physics student can)

Josh the Jew? What the... :confused:

Look, we have evidence of humans and dinosaurs coexisting... and not just a little bit. It's overwhelming. But covered up and violently repressed, that's why people like yourself don't know about it.

[Loki]

You are trolling. From an atheist to a young earth creationist in a short time.

I'm not trolling mate.

[Rethel]

Didn't Jesus try to eliminate man-made elements of the OT that were irrelevant to the worship of God, and could you not consider this one of them?

Jesus was a creationist.
An enemy of saducean disbelief.

[Hamlet]

Jesus was a creationist.
An enemy of saducean disbelief.

What did he think about the curvature of the Earth?

[Rethel]

What did he think about the curvature of the Earth?

Never did speak about it.

[Hamlet]

Never did speak about it.

Okay what do you think about it then

[Rethel]

Okay what do you think about it then

At now nothing. Idk what earth is, but I prefere her to be round
(and growing :p ) in endless Universe to colonize for eternity :)

You also don't know, what shape earth is, the same as I and
anybody else here. These who claim that know and call others
idiots, are just the same idiots who belive certain other people,
exactly the same what flatearthers do - belive other people.
More than that, round earther scientists did compromitate
themselves with other stuff, which roundearthers usually belive
them too, so who is real idiot here I dont know. But flatists really
have some good points. But I accept round earth. But how is indeed, idk.

[Mingle]

Only 42% of Americans still resist the millions/billions of years lies? Shocking.

Humans and dinosaurs coexisted, something not commonly known these days anymore.

Technically speaking, humans and dinosaurs still coexist. Modern day birds are considered therapods, belonging to the tetanurae clade of therapods to be more specific.

[Bobby Martnen]

I'm a young earth creationist.

Used to be an atheist, too.

[Bobby Martnen]

Technically speaking, humans and dinosaurs still coexist. Modern day birds are considered therapods, belonging to the tetanurae clade of therapods to be more specific.

So fried chicken is really fried dinosaur?

[Mingle]

There are active forums dedicated to the flat earth theory btw:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php

https://forum.tfes.org

[Hamlet]

I'm a young earth creationist.

Used to be an atheist, too.

???

[wvwvw]

The earth is not just million of years old. It is billion of years old.

The Bible does not fix the age of the earth, contrary to the claims of Answers in Genesis. Historically, their claim comes from the work of James Ussher, Bishop in the Church of Ireland, from 1625 to 1656. Archbishop Ussher took the genealogies of Genesis, assuming they were complete, and calculated all the years to arrive at a date for the creation of the earth on Sunday, October 23, 4004 B.C

The young earth paradigm that the earth is merely 6,000 years old is falsified by both the Bible and science. The vast ages of the earth does not diminish the power of God, but establishes that God thought that preparing the earth for human habitation was worth the billions of years of preparation. Since God is not subject to the temporal dimension of this universe it all happened "instantly" for Him.

[Rethel]

The earth is not just million of years old. It is billion of years old.

If Earth is billions of years old, then, for example:

1. Allready since long ago should lost the moon or the moon should touched the ground some time ago - life impossible.
2. Whole surface of the Earth should be flatted and rocks should eroded.
3. Oceans should be salt as hell - life impossible.
4. We should have gigantic coral reefs - we dont have.
5. Oceans should be full of mud - they arent.
6. We should observe gigantic deltas - we dont.
7. We should allready millions of times do not have magnetosphere - life impossible.

Just a few, from many, which I remember at the moment...

[wvwvw]

If Earth is billions of years old, then, for example:

1. Allready since long ago should lost the moon or the moon should touched the ground some time ago - life impossible.
2. Whole surface of the Earth should be flatted and rocks should eroded.
3. Oceans should be salt as hell - life impossible.
4. We should have gigantic coral reefs - we dont have.
5. Oceans should be full of mud - they arent.
6. We should observe gigantic deltas - we dont.
7. We should allready millions of times do not have magnetosphere - life impossible.

Just a few, from many, which I remember at the moment...

But none of these things happen, consciousness preceeds the universe and the physical. Without consciousness, "matter" dwells in an undetermined state of probability. Any universe that could have preceded consciousness only existed in a probability state.

Physicists examine consciousness & conclude the universe is 'spiritual, immaterial, and mental'

Max Plack, a physicist who originated quantum theory, regarded consciousness as “fundamental,” and matter as “derivative from consciousness.” He said that “we cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”

Eugene Wigner, a physicist and mathematician told the world that “it was not possible to formulate the laws of quantum mechanics in a fully consistent way without reference to consciousness.”

R.C. Henry, Professor of Physics and Astronomy at Johns Hopkins University said that:

“A fundamental conclusion of the new physics also acknowledges that the observer creates the reality. As observers, we are personally involved with the creation of our own reality. Physicists are being forced to admit that the universe is a “mental” construction. Pioneering physicist Sir James Jeans wrote: “The stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter. Get over it, and accept the inarguable conclusion. The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual.” (“The Mental Universe” ; Nature)

[Drusilla]

Neither time nor speed of light can be made to change in such a drastic way to make the universe young. Thus, the universe itself tells us that it's not 6000 years old and that it took more than 144 hours to form.

[Hamlet]

If Earth is billions of years old, then, for example:

1. Allready since long ago should lost the moon or the moon should touched the ground some time ago - life impossible.
2. Whole surface of the Earth should be flatted and rocks should eroded.
3. Oceans should be salt as hell - life impossible.
4. We should have gigantic coral reefs - we dont have.
5. Oceans should be full of mud - they arent.
6. We should observe gigantic deltas - we dont.
7. We should allready millions of times do not have magnetosphere - life impossible.

Just a few, from many, which I remember at the moment...

As someone who's studied physics, this makes me want to kill myself.

For teasers, look up Newton's cannon to debunk point 1.

[LoLeL]

RETHELISM

[Rethel]

But none of these things happen,

Didn't, becasue Earth is just 6000 years old.

[Rethel]

Neither time nor speed of light can be made to change in such a drastic way to make the universe young.

So, as someone will see you, that you drive your car at
the spead 100km/h through 10 minutes, so, according to
this what did you recall will mean, that in last month you
did drive 72k km. Proved? Proved. By your methodology.

[Dandelion]

RETHELISM

The future of hard sciences in your classroom.

[LoLeL]

The future of hard sciences in your classroom.

https://media.tenor.com/images/9bf3047f3533633b5d4ad7b2da6dd7b8/tenor.gif

[Loki]

I'm a young earth creationist.

Used to be an atheist, too.

Wonderful! :) Welcome to the "club". :thumb001:

[Loki]

Technically speaking, humans and dinosaurs still coexist. Modern day birds are considered therapods, belonging to the tetanurae clade of therapods to be more specific.

I'm not so sure about that, actually.

But it is a fact that dinosaurs like sauropods, Tyrannosaurus, Stegoraurus, etc etc all lived at a time when humans were on earth. There is evidence for that, recently discovered. And yes -- there is a huge coverup and destruction of evidence going on, because it's a huge conspiracy theory that they are desperately trying to keep afloat. But it's too late, the cat is out of the bag, and evolution's days are numbered.

[Bobby Martnen]

I'm not so sure about that, actually.

But it is a fact that dinosaurs like sauropods, Tyrannosaurus, Stegoraurus, etc etc all lived at a time when humans were on earth. There is evidence for that, recently discovered. And yes -- there is a huge coverup and destruction of evidence going on, because it's a huge conspiracy theory that they are desperately trying to keep afloat. But it's too late, the cat is out of the bag, and evolution's days are numbered.

This is why so many cultures all around the world have stories about dragons - dragons are actually dinosaurs

[Loki]

Neither time nor speed of light can be made to change in such a drastic way to make the universe young. Thus, the universe itself tells us that it's not 6000 years old and that it took more than 144 hours to form.

Haha, good point actually. :) I mean... there are stars that we can see that are supposed to be millions of light-years away...

However, this implies we believe that those distances are real. And that space actually exists. ;) :p

[Fractal]

I'm not so sure about that, actually.

But it is a fact that dinosaurs like sauropods, Tyrannosaurus, Stegoraurus, etc etc all lived at a time when humans were on earth. There is evidence for that, recently discovered. And yes -- there is a huge coverup and destruction of evidence going on, because it's a huge conspiracy theory that they are desperately trying to keep afloat. But it's too late, the cat is out of the bag, and evolution's days are numbered.

You've gotta be kidding.

[KMack]

Regarding the age of the Earth, if you sit down with people and discuss scientific evidence you would get a different response. Polling can be tricky.

[Loki]

This is why so many cultures all around the world have stories about dragons - dragons are actually dinosaurs

Spot on! :) Dragons = dinosaurs.

[Loki]

You've gotta be kidding.

Nope. They're even found a stegosaurus carcass in the US with bone soft tissue that contained DNA...

[Loki]

Actually Fractal, during the time of Alexander the Great, there were so many dinosaurs in India, it was said that on every mountain there was at least one. And it was a problem for their expeditions over there. It's all written down, and of course conveniently not talked about anymore.

[Insuperable]

What did he think about the curvature of the Earth?

I think Jesus knew the Earth was a sphere.

Luke 17:30-36, where Jesus describes the coming of Son of Man:


“It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Remember Lot’s wife! Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two will be two grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

[Svipdag]

OF COURSE NOT If it were, we could not see any object more than 6000 light years away because the light from it would not have had time to reach us. We couldn't even see most of our own galaxy. Our galaxy's two satellite galaxies, the Magellanic Clouds are 35,000 and 50,000 light years away. If the universe were but 6000 years old, we would not see the nearer of them for 29,000 years yet, and the farther for 44,000 years Yet, both are clearly visible in the Southern Hemisphere.

Our measurements of their distances are based on sound physical and optical principles which have been proved to be valid. The nearest galaxy external to our own galactic cluster, the Local Group, is about 2.2 MILLION light years away. It should not become visible for another 2,200,000 - 6000 years, give or take a bit for small inaccuracies in measurement..

[Svipdag]

Only 42% of Americans still resist the millions/billions of years lies? Shocking.

Humans and dinosaurs coexisted, something not commonly known these days anymore.

If humans and dinosaurs co-existed, how did weak, slow, fangless, clawless, armorless humankind ever survive ? Take a good look at a dinosaur skeleton, imagine that animal engine of destruction lumbering after you to make you a light snack after breakfast. Can you make a field howitzer and shells for it while on the run from this behemoth ? maybe you could , if you knew in advance which way he was going, make a deadfall trap. They're effective egainst bears. This critter could use a a bear for an appetizer. Do you really think that humans could EVER have defeated even one Tyrannosaurus ?

If humans had been contemporary with dinosaurs, there would be NO HUMAN RACE today. We couldn't even compete with the giant mammals of the early Cenozoic, but had to wait until they had become extinct before we could survive.

[Loki]

If humans and dinosaurs co-existed, how did weak, slow, fangless, clawless, armorless humankind ever survive ? Take a good look at a dinosaur skeleton, imagine that animal engine of destruction lumbering after you to make you a light snack after breakfast. Can you make a field howitzer and shells for it while on the run from this behemoth ? maybe you could , if you knew in advance which way he was going, make a deadfall trap. They're effective egainst bears. This critter could use a a bear for an appetizer. Do you really think that humans could EVER have defeated even one Tyrannosaurus ?

If humans had been contemporary with dinosaurs, there would be NO HUMAN RACE today. We couldn't even compete with the giant mammals of the early Cenozoic, but had to wait until they had become extinct before we could survive.

Are you aware of the fact that, especially before the Flood, humans of giant proportions existed? And I mean GIANTS...

Look here at a statue of Gilgamesh.... and see how pitifully small a grown male lion looks next to him. And how powerless:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/H%C3%A9rosma%C3%AEtrisantunlion.jpg/800px-H%C3%A9rosma%C3%AEtrisantunlion.jpg

And there were giants who were far bigger than Gilgamesh, even.

Also, most of the large dinosaurs were wiped out in the flood, but others did survive. There are countless records and evidences of them in the Americas, Asia, and even Europe. Although they became increasingly rare after the flood, and a few thousand years ago already they were almost wiped out.

[Drusilla]

Are you aware of the fact that, especially before the Flood, humans of giant proportions existed? And I mean GIANTS...

Look here at a statue of Gilgamesh.... and see how pitifully small a grown male lion looks next to him. And how powerless:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/H%C3%A9rosma%C3%AEtrisantunlion.jpg/800px-H%C3%A9rosma%C3%AEtrisantunlion.jpg

And there were giants who were far bigger than Gilgamesh, even.

Also, most of the large dinosaurs were wiped out in the flood, but others did survive. There are countless records and evidences of them in the Americas, Asia, and even Europe. Although they became increasingly rare after the flood, and a few thousand years ago already they were almost wiped out.

Do you think that that they are remnants of the nephilim?

[KMack]

Are you aware of the fact that, especially before the Flood, humans of giant proportions existed? And I mean GIANTS...

Look here at a statue of Gilgamesh.... and see how pitifully small a grown male lion looks next to him. And how powerless:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/H%C3%A9rosma%C3%AEtrisantunlion.jpg/800px-H%C3%A9rosma%C3%AEtrisantunlion.jpg

And there were giants who were far bigger than Gilgamesh, even.

Also, most of the large dinosaurs were wiped out in the flood, but others did survive. There are countless records and evidences of them in the Americas, Asia, and even Europe. Although they became increasingly rare after the flood, and a few thousand years ago already they were almost wiped out.

We would have probably found their bones or graves by now. Dragons, were probably "created" when ancient people discovered dinosaur bones fossils.

[Loki]

Do you think that that they are remnants of the nephilim?

Yes, most certainly they were.

[Loki]

We would have probably found their bones or graves by now. Dragons, were probably "created" when ancient people discovered dinosaur bones fossils.

We have. In fact even plenty of giant bones IN AMERICA ... you can search about that. They were taken by the Smithsonian Institute, and covered up.

No, real dragons existed. They were dinosaurs. Because at that time, the word "dinosaur" had not been invented yet.

[Loki]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA50n9z93gw

[Loki]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p992yiTLae8

[Svipdag]

The Noachian flood was a purely local event, confined to the Mediterranean basin. I did some calculations many years ago to determine how much sea level would be raised if all of the water vapor which the atmosphere could possibly hold were to be precipitated at once.(Which wouldn't take forty days and forty nights, but it is well-known that in the Middle East, from ancient times to the present "forty" means any large indeterminate number.) I arrived at a figure of about 15 cm., i.e. SIX INCHES ! Some flood :picard1:

A world-wide flood, submerging the continents is a physical impossibility. To account for such an event, it would be necessary to resort to a miracle.Miracles are very convenient in that they can be used to "explain" anything by implying that there is no explanation. God so willed it. End of discussion.

[Loki]

The Noachian flood was a purely local event, confined to the Mediterranean basin. I did some calculations many years ago to determine how much sea level would be raised if all of the water vapor which the atmosphere could possibly hold were to be precipitated at once.(Which wouldn't take forty days and forty nights, but it is well-known that in the Middle East, from ancient times to the present "forty" means any large indeterminate number.) I arrived at a figure of about 15 cm., i.e. SIX INCHES ! Some flood :picard1:

A world-wide flood, submerging the continents is a physical impossibility. To account for such an event, it would be necessary to resort to a miracle.Miracles are very convenient in that they can be used to "explain" anything by implying that there is no explanation. God so willed it. End of discussion.

You think you're really smart, don't you? How on earth do you think you know all the parameters necessary to make such calculations? You don't have all the knowledge available to make such calculations.

There is plenty of evidence of a huge flood within the last 10,000 years or so. Think of when the ice caps melted at the end of the last glacial maxim. Have you ever thought how the Grand Canyon formed in North America? It was a huge flood. And no, it's not millions of years old.

Have you ever seen the water erosion grooves on the Great Sphinx of Giza?

[Gone West]

You think you're really smart, don't you? How on earth do you think you know all the parameters necessary to make such calculations? You don't have all the knowledge available to make such calculations.

There is plenty of evidence of a huge flood within the last 10,000 years or so. Think of when the ice caps melted at the end of the last glacial maxim. Have you ever thought how the Grand Canyon formed in North America? It was a huge flood. And no, it's not millions of years old.

Science and religion are tied together. Science tell you how, and religion tell you why.

[Loki]

Science and religion are tied together. Science tell you how, and religion tell you why.

I don't follow religion, it's of Satan.

[Decius]

The world is only 6000 years old

[Gone West]

I don't follow religion, it's of Satan.

If you believe in Satan then you admit a part - be it small - of religion.

[Loki]

If you believe in Satan then you admit a part - be it small - of religion.

No, I believe in God, and the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's a truth, not a religion.

[Gone West]

No, I believe in God, and the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's a truth, not a religion.

Ok, no worries. For truth is religion anyway, so we agree on one point.

[Aldaris]

Usually, when poeple are trying to be satirical, it is extremely easy to spot and unfunny, but Loki has indeed done a great job. For a moment, even I was thinking, that some crazy sect got him.

[Aldaris]

I don't follow religion, it's of Satan.

Clarify this statement, please.

[Loki]

Clarify this statement, please.

All religion is manmade, and behind it is in many cases the work of demons, nephilim.

There is one true God, though. Following him cannot be considered a religion. It's not religiosity. All religions are based on man's good works, man trying to attain or achieve something, some spirituality, or enlightenment, or whatever. But God's gift of eternal life cannot be achieved, you cannot earn it. It's for free, you have to merely lay down your pride and accept it into your life. That's when God takes you up on your faith, and miracles start to happen!

[Mingle]

Actually Fractal, during the time of Alexander the Great, there were so many dinosaurs in India, it was said that on every mountain there was at least one. And it was a problem for their expeditions over there. It's all written down, and of course conveniently not talked about anymore.

True :p

http://nwcreation.net/dinosdragons.html

[Pigling]

I see religion as tool useful just to manipulate women so they preserve their sexual purity/husbands pride...

[Rethel]

OF COURSE NOT If it were, we could not see any object more than 6000 light years away because the light from it would not have had time to reach us.

It is obviously nonsensical assumption, as Jehovah did create stars for being
seen on Earth, not for waiting, until the light from them will come to Earth.

1. So obviously he could create them allready visible. If he could create
all stars, the more, he could create the light from them on the way.

2. Assumption, that light has always the same speed is not reasonable,
as we cannot know, what speed it has 10 billion light years from here,
especially, that allready it is proven, that light has not the same speed,
or, that previous measurments are not actual today.

3. From theory of relativity, it is known, that time can be different in
different parts of the Universe, so even if on Earth passed 6000 years,
in different parts of the Universe could pass 6 zilions years, who cares.

So, if you want to be scientific, be scientific and turn on brain.

Btw, according to your methodology, Adam, one second after creation
would be 20-25 years old. So, you would detect very fictional time, from
631,152,000 to 788,940,000 TIMES bigger, than his real age. So whole your
assumptions would guide you wrongly - totaly wrongly.


We couldn't even see most of our own galaxy.

So the more, you cannot know, how and from where is the whole Universe! :picard2:


Our galaxy's two satellite galaxies, the Magellanic Clouds are 35,000 and 50,000 light years away. If the universe were but 6000 years old, we would not see the nearer of them for 29,000 years yet, and the farther for 44,000 years Yet, both are clearly visible in the Southern Hemisphere.

As above.


Our measurements of their distances are based on sound physical and optical principles which have been proved to be valid. The nearest galaxy external to our own galactic cluster, the Local Group, is about 2.2
MILLION light years away. It should not become visible for another 2,200,000 - 6000 years, give or take a bit for small inaccuracies in measurement..

As above + you assume, that either God was not mighy enaugh or that some scienific
theories cannot work when it would support the Bible. Interesting methodology... :bored:

[Rethel]

If humans and dinosaurs co-existed, how did weak, slow, fangless, clawless, armorless humankind ever survive ? Take a good look at a dinosaur skeleton, imagine that animal engine of destruction lumbering after you to make you a light snack after breakfast. Can you make a field howitzer and shells for it while on the run from this behemoth ? maybe you could , if you knew in advance which way he was going, make a deadfall trap. They're effective egainst bears. This critter could use a a bear for an appetizer. Do you really think that humans could EVER have defeated even one Tyrannosaurus ?

If humans had been contemporary with dinosaurs, there would be NO HUMAN RACE today. We couldn't even compete with the giant mammals of the early Cenozoic, but had to wait until they had become extinct before we could survive.

Idiotic assumption. According to this, humans shouldn;t exist at all, as many other factors should destroy us.
But, maybe you do not know this yet, but people have brains and inteligence, which allow them to survive in
many different enviroments and overtake many danger factors. And btw, after the flood dinosaurs probably
were not so big as before the flood, and even if were, then it is the whole point in killing the biggest one, as
the legends about dragons claim. The biggest dragon, the biggest fame for killer. Normal thing.

And most of dinosaurs were not bigger than a cow anyway, and yet, the bigest ones were plant eaters. And
even the meat eaters were not human killing cyborgs - so obviously humankind were not their primal goal,
so could survive. Btw, such Tyrranosaurus was interested in bigger victims than small human. He would not
even feel the taste - the more, he would be not stuffed. Please, think sometimes, it really doesn't hurt.

[Rethel]

The Noachian flood was a purely local event, confined to the Mediterranean basin.

If you are talking about noachian flood, please, read about it.
There is nothing like you said. You just invented it. But do not
call your own imagination by known and well define terms.


A world-wide flood, submerging the continents is a physical impossibility. To account for such an event, it would be necessary to resort to a miracle.Miracles are very convenient in that they can be used to "explain" anything by implying that there is no explanation. God so willed it. End of discussion.

The whole point is, that God did make it! If it would be possible and natural, then there would be no need for his intervention.
But the whole point is, that he wanted to intervene, and created something, which you cannot explain by natural causes.

Exactly for that reason.

[Rethel]

No more opposition? :)

[Loki]

No more opposition? :)

Seemingly not :D

[Aldaris]

All religion is manmade, and behind it is in many cases the work of demons, nephilim.

There is one true God, though. Following him cannot be considered a religion. It's not religiosity. All religions are based on man's good works, man trying to attain or achieve something, some spirituality, or enlightenment, or whatever. But God's gift of eternal life cannot be achieved, you cannot earn it. It's for free, you have to merely lay down your pride and accept it into your life. That's when God takes you up on your faith, and miracles start to happen!

I'm not going to discuss your assumptions, but your first conclusion about demons is completely correct, given that Christianity is true. In fact, their intervention would be necessary, in the order to explain the similarities of Christianity and other religions, which go very, very far. Atheists usually claim, that those similarities do disprove Christianity. Even though I'm an atheist, I can see why this argument is flawed. Demons know what God is like and what his plan is, so they've created twisted mockeries of the truth, which also serve the function of deception. Regarding the question, whether Christianity is a religion or not, I'm sorry to disagree, but I think it clearly is. Religion is defined as follows: "Religion is any cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, world views, texts, sanctified places, ethics, or organizations, that relate humanity to the supernatural or transcendental." Whether true or not, Christianity fits the definition perfectly.

[LoLeL]

We have some of them here plus "flat earth" sauce. :rotfl:

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/lol.gif

[Loki]

I'm not going to discuss your assumptions, but your first conclusion about demons is completely correct, given that Christianity is true. In fact, their intervention would be necessary, in the order to explain the similarities of Christianity and other religions, which go very, very far. Atheists usually claim, that those similarities do disprove Christianity. Even though I'm an atheist, I can see why this argument is flawed. Demons know what God is like and what his plan is, so they've created twisted mockeries of the truth, which also serve the function of deception. Regarding the question, whether Christianity is a religion or not, I'm sorry to disagree, but I think it clearly is. Religion is defined as follows: "Religion is any cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, world views, texts, sanctified places, ethics, or organizations, that relate humanity to the supernatural or transcendental." Whether true or not, Christianity fits the definition perfectly.

Over the centuries people have diluted the gospel of Jesus Christ into a manmade institution, incorporated pagan ideas, etc etc. Hence, you are correct in this regard. But God has provided for us that the Bible remained a testament of his plan for humans for salvation... and this has not changed. The gospel is as powerful and real as it was 2,000 years ago today if we believe God's word through Jesus and the Apostles, and it still makes lives new and brings people back into right standing with God. Churches cannot save anyone. "Christianity" also can't. But Jesus Christ can, and still does.

[Rethel]

The future of hard sciences in your classroom.

What has science to do with the origin at all?
To know, how robot works or what kind of a pig has a swine, you do not need
to know, how it begins at all. More than that: you do not need fairy tales one
after another, produced by people, who allready rejected true recorded story...

[Sacrificed Ram]

Eh, the Big Bang with inflation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_%28cosmology%29), billions of years can have occurred in one second according our current perspective...

[Popeye]

Only 42% of Americans still resist the millions/billions of years lies? Shocking.

Humans and dinosaurs coexisted, something not commonly known these days anymore.

Yes , but dinosaurs didn't live only 6000 years ago. Neither are you taking into account their extinction.

[Bobby Martnen]

There will never be 100% solid scientific proof of the origins of life and the earth, because science can't reconstruct history like that.
So where science, which is an invention of mankind, failed, you should look to answers in the word of the omniscient and omnipotent creator of the universe.

The Bible is true.

[Loki]

Yes , but dinosaurs didn't live only 6000 years ago. Neither are you taking into account their extinction.

They became extinct (totally) no more than 1,000 years ago. Perhaps 600 years ago a handful still existed in places like the Americas, but shortly thereafter they were totally gone.

[Óttar]

You are trolling. From an atheist to a young earth creationist in a short time.
If only. We all wish this were the case.

[Popeye]

They became extinct (totally) no more than 1,000 years ago. Perhaps 600 years ago a handful still existed in places like the Americas, but shortly thereafter they were totally gone.

I know you're trolling ;)

[Loki]

I know you're trolling ;)

I'm not. :)

[kiko]

Young Earth Creationists are one of the most dumbest people on this whole entire planet, no way the earth is only just 6,000 years old, There is a lot of evidence (including records, fossils, etc), that the world is far more older the 6,000 years old.

[Loki]

Young Earth Creationists are one of the most dumbest people on this whole entire planet, no way the earth is only just 6,000 years old, There is a lot of evidence (including records, fossils, etc), that the world is far more older the 6,000 years old.

What records, fossils? Do you know that most of these fossils are far younger than they are claimed to be? They're not millions of years old. In some, modern human artifacts have even been found. They cannot be millions of years old.

I'm not saying 100% that the earth is 6,000 years old. It's an idea that has a lot going for it. But what I can tell you, is that it's not millions of years. More likely, thousands.

[Bosniensis]

Universe can't be 6000 years old when Serbs exist over 8000 years

[Insuperable]

If only. We all wish this were the case.

Still beats Hindu Shakta.

[Dick]

Universe can't be 6000 years old when Serbs exist over 8000 years

+1

[markleslienicknak]

Young Earth Creationists are one of the most dumbest people on this whole entire planet, no way the earth is only just 6,000 years old, There is a lot of evidence (including records, fossils, etc), that the world is far more older the 6,000 years old.

How much evidence have you seen? Or is everything in what you've read and been fed without actually using scientific equipment or methods for yourself? Have you considered the possibilities? Have you acknowledged the gaps both scientifically and in religious explanation? Have you questioned the relevance of the answer to this question in light of the challenges we face right now? Have you studied physics, relativity, and time and how even what we call time is malleable? Consider the corrections that must be made just to keep our network communications possible due to the difference in time experienced by satellites versus the passage of time here on the surface of the planet.

Young earth creationists are no dumber than you or anyone else. However, they may be as judgmental and closed-minded as your post seems to suggest you are. (Which I hope is not the case since I don't know you and don't want the anonymity of the internet to affect my treatment of you as a fellow human being.)

Whether a scientific explanation regarding a big bang and billions of years of evolution or a creationist theory of only six thousand years, both require some degree of faith in unknowns in order to accept them as fact.

Myself, I'm somewhere between the two. I, in the least, believe that known biological life is much younger than science states, but I'm unsure just how young due to gaps that possibly exist in Scripture such as a discontinuity regarding general creation and the garden and the extent of time within the garden and if there were two creations: mankind, man and woman, outside the garden made in the image of God and man and from the man, a woman, who not only were made in the image of God but had the breath of life placed inside of them by the Spirit of God leading them to possess a living soul, from whom we are all descended.

For this reason, while this is all fascinating and I look forward to knowing the answers to all of it, I have to accept that none of this matters in comparison to salvation through Jesus and a renewal of spirit and the imbuing of the Holy Spirit, without which, we are all doomed as the inevitable path humanity will take is toward its own destruction and the destruction of creation itself otherwise. Unfortunately, we are at the point in our collective knowledge that this is now increasingly possible.

[Scandal]

bump

[Roy]

I had a teacher who genuinely believed the Universe was only 6000 years old but he was a pentecostal.

[Batavia]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdXi5khpskk

https://i.postimg.cc/B6rtjp8f/Download.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Batavia]

double