Y-DNA chart of 91 Turks (NEW)

[Hudayar]

I have recently discovered this. It's kinda surprising
It's from personal genetic results of Turks.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RMhMUGBITHs/WhyipNr73TI/AAAAAAAAAKg/nJ-ViW7zG9UbaQ972_8I9VTD7CnuMn9eQCLcBGAs/s1600/24135520_387820838341564_1470787737_n.png


source: https://turkishdna.blogspot.com.tr/

[Hudayar]

Old chart (which also included non Turks but more samples)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Turkey_Y_chromosome%28in_20_haplogroups%29.png

[LoLeL]

14.29% N

Interesting

[Kess]

%1.30 Q :(

[Leto]

Which subclades of N?

[Pennywise]

Interesting results indeed. There are also new admixture maps based on Dodecad K12b. Share them too if you have those maps.

[Hudayar]

Which subclades of N?

I don't exactly know. There are many of them. But one of them belongs to N-VL73

[Bosniensis]

Turkey is a mix of all Balkan nations + some Turks..

Reminds me on India and USA

[Gramos]

I have recently discovered this. It's kinda surprising
It's from personal genetic results of Turks.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RMhMUGBITHs/WhyipNr73TI/AAAAAAAAAKg/nJ-ViW7zG9UbaQ972_8I9VTD7CnuMn9eQCLcBGAs/s1600/24135520_387820838341564_1470787737_n.png


source: https://turkishdna.blogspot.com.tr/

There is very few Turkic haplogroups among Turkish people.
Vast majority of Anatolian "Turks" are descendants of native Anatolians which were turkified.

[Hudayar]

There is very few Turkic haplogroups among Turkish people.
Vast majority of Anatolian "Turks" are descendants of native Anatolians which were turkified.

Nooooooope. This has already been debunked.

Also there's no such thing as "Turkic" haplogroup lmao. J2, R1b, R1a etc are also common in Central Asia. You should check autosomal dna. If you want to i can also show you GEDmatch results of Turks.

Here's one as an example
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 23.12
2 West_Asian 20.92
3 West_Med 12.85
4 Baltic 12.09
5 Siberian 10.19
6 North_Atlantic 7.31
7 East_Asian 6.37
8 Red_Sea 4.52
9 South_Asian 1.52
10 Oceanian 1.08
11 Amerindian 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Turkish 14.61
2 Nogay 17.12
3 Turkmen 17.82
4 Central_Greek 18.13
5 Azeri 18.37
6 East_Sicilian 18.83
7 Greek_Thessaly 19.51
8 Ashkenazi 19.59
9 Italian_Abruzzo 20.16
10 South_Italian 20.19
11 Kumyk 21.17
12 West_Sicilian 21.92
13 Lebanese_Muslim 22.19
14 Bulgarian 22.39
15 Cyprian 22.46
16 Syrian 22.5
17 Sephardic_Jewish 22.59
18 Algerian_Jewish 23.33
19 Afghan_Turkmen 23.34
20 Balkar 23.5



Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.2% Nogay + 41.8% Algerian_Jewish @ 5.19
2 53.7% Nogay + 46.3% Ashkenazi @ 5.36
3 51% Cyprian + 49% Afghan_Turkmen @ 5.76
4 59% Nogay + 41% Italian_Jewish @ 5.79
5 59.5% Nogay + 40.5% Tunisian_Jewish @ 5.8
6 60% Nogay + 40% Libyan_Jewish @ 6
7 57.5% Nogay + 42.5% Cyprian @ 6.23
8 57.7% Nogay + 42.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 6.27
9 57% Central_Greek + 43% Afghan_Turkmen @ 6.65
10 62.7% Nogay + 37.3% Samaritan @ 6.69
11 59.8% Central_Greek + 40.2% Uzbeki @ 6.73
12 53.8% Cyprian + 46.2% Uzbeki @ 6.76
13 56% East_Sicilian + 44% Afghan_Turkmen @ 6.84
14 52.8% Nogay + 47.2% East_Sicilian @ 6.85
15 54% South_Italian + 46% Afghan_Turkmen @ 7.04
16 54.9% Ashkenazi + 45.1% Afghan_Turkmen @ 7.07
17 64.3% Central_Greek + 35.7% Hazara @ 7.1
18 54.8% Nogay + 45.2% South_Italian @ 7.14
19 58.8% East_Sicilian + 41.2% Uzbeki @ 7.15

[Lavrentis]

Nooooooope. This has already been debunked.

Also there's no such thing as "Turkic" haplogroup lmao. J2, R1b, R1a etc are also common in Central Asia. You should check autosomal dna. If you want to i can also show you GEDmatch results of Turks.

Here's one as an example
#PopulationPercent
1 East_Med 23.12
2 West_Asian 20.92
3 West_Med 12.85
4 Baltic 12.09
5 Siberian 10.19
6 North_Atlantic 7.31
7 East_Asian 6.37
8 Red_Sea 4.52
9 South_Asian 1.52
10 Oceanian 1.08
11 Amerindian 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1 Turkish 14.61
2 Nogay 17.12
3 Turkmen 17.82
4 Central_Greek 18.13
5 Azeri 18.37
6 East_Sicilian 18.83
7 Greek_Thessaly 19.51
8 Ashkenazi 19.59
9 Italian_Abruzzo 20.16
10 South_Italian 20.19
11 Kumyk 21.17
12 West_Sicilian 21.92
13 Lebanese_Muslim 22.19
14 Bulgarian 22.39
15 Cyprian 22.46
16 Syrian 22.5
17 Sephardic_Jewish 22.59
18 Algerian_Jewish 23.33
19 Afghan_Turkmen 23.34
20 Balkar 23.5



Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
158.2%Nogay + 41.8%Algerian_Jewish @ 5.19
253.7%Nogay + 46.3%Ashkenazi @ 5.36
351%Cyprian + 49%Afghan_Turkmen @ 5.76
459%Nogay + 41%Italian_Jewish @ 5.79
559.5%Nogay + 40.5%Tunisian_Jewish @ 5.8
660%Nogay + 40%Libyan_Jewish @ 6
757.5%Nogay + 42.5%Cyprian @ 6.23
857.7%Nogay + 42.3%Sephardic_Jewish @ 6.27
957%Central_Greek + 43%Afghan_Turkmen @ 6.65
1062.7%Nogay + 37.3%Samaritan @ 6.69
1159.8%Central_Greek + 40.2%Uzbeki @ 6.73
1253.8%Cyprian + 46.2%Uzbeki @ 6.76
1356%East_Sicilian + 44%Afghan_Turkmen @ 6.84
1452.8%Nogay + 47.2%East_Sicilian @ 6.85
1554%South_Italian + 46%Afghan_Turkmen @ 7.04
1654.9%Ashkenazi + 45.1%Afghan_Turkmen @ 7.07
1764.3%Central_Greek + 35.7%Hazara @ 7.1
1854.8%Nogay + 45.2%South_Italian @ 7.14
1958.8%East_Sicilian + 41.2%Uzbeki @ 7.15

Cherry-picked result, post more


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[Gramos]

Nooooooope. This has already been debunked.

Also there's no such thing as "Turkic" haplogroup lmao. J2, R1b, R1a etc are also common in Central Asia. If you want to i can also show you GEDmatch results of Turks.

J2a is the strongest haplogroup among Turkish people and it's native in Anatolia, not related with real Turks.
R1b (known as Anatolian branch) is also native in Anatolia and not related with real Turks.
R1a is mostly Slavic M458 and Z280, and Indo-Aryan Z93 almost does not exist in Turkey.
G2 is native in Anatolia or from Caucasus, it has nothing to do with Turks.

[Gramos]

Cherry-picked result, post more


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Cherry-picked from Turks with recent Tatar or some other semi-mongoloid ancestors.

[Hudayar]

J2a is the strongest haplogroup among Turkish people and it's native in Anatolia, not related with real Turks.
R1b (known as Anatolian branch) is also native in Anatolia and not related with real Turks.
R1a is mostly Slavic M458 and Z280, and Indo-Aryan Z93 almost does not exist in Turkey.
G2 is native in Anatolia or from Caucasus, it has nothing to do with Turks.


Ah yes "J2" has nothing to do with Turkics as can be seen here
http://www.haplogruplar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/J2-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-Map-J2-M172-Map-J2-Haplogrubu-Haritasi-v3.png

Look at those native Anatolians in Uzbekistan

http://www.haplogruplar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/uzbeks-ydna-haplogroups-ozbeklerin-genetik-yapisi.png

R1b is also indeed native to Anatolia, nothing to do with Central Asia!

https://i1.wp.com/cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b_World.png



For a haplotard you're pretty dumb and ignorant. If you try to argue with me come up with better arguments. I'll try to educate you :)

[Hudayar]

Cherry-picked from Turks with recent Tatar or some other semi-mongoloid ancestors.

Nope. All of them are native to Anatolia. I took the result from here
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?224818-Western-Turks-GEDmatch-results



Not satisfied? Here's one from Central Anatolia
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?226479-Turkish-GEDmatch-results-(Central-Anatolian)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 27.26
2 East_Med 25.23
3 West_Med 11.52
4 Siberian 7.36
5 Baltic 7.15
6 North_Atlantic 6.98
7 East_Asian 5.52
8 Red_Sea 5.11
9 South_Asian 2.80
10 Amerindian 1.08


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turkish @ 7.827005
2 Azeri @ 12.115146
3 Turkmen @ 15.416478
4 Kurdish @ 18.422138
5 Kumyk @ 18.570681
6 Georgian_Jewish @ 18.789095
7 Iranian @ 18.978643
8 Armenian @ 19.156500
9 Assyrian @ 19.462763
10 Lebanese_Muslim @ 19.852335
11 Nogay @ 20.215675
12 Syrian @ 20.334293
13 Central_Greek @ 21.214485
14 Iranian_Jewish @ 21.888222
15 East_Sicilian @ 21.967295
16 Kurdish_Jewish @ 22.030170
17 Cyprian @ 22.043495
18 Balkar @ 22.044586
19 South_Italian @ 22.422161
20 Kabardin @ 23.159328

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Muslim +50% Nogay @ 2.316665


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Cyprian +25% North_Ossetian +25% Uygur @ 2.066952



Now bugger off.

[Gramos]

Ah yes "J2" has nothing to do with Turkics as can be seen here
http://www.haplogruplar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/J2-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-Map-J2-M172-Map-J2-Haplogrubu-Haritasi-v3.png

Look at those native Anatolians in Uzbekistan

http://www.haplogruplar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/uzbeks-ydna-haplogroups-ozbeklerin-genetik-yapisi.png

R1b is also indeed native to Anatolia, nothing to do with Central Asia!

https://i1.wp.com/cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b_World.png



For a haplotard you're pretty dumb and ignorant. If you try to argue with me come up with better arguments. I'll try to educate you :)

Hello, J2a is native in Anastolia, central Asian version of J2 is not related with Anatolian J2a.

[Leto]

There is very few Turkic haplogroups among Turkish people.
Vast majority of Anatolian "Turks" are descendants of native Anatolians which were turkified.
The Turks of Turkey are not just assimilated Anatolians, Greeks, Armenians, Circassians, Balkan Slavs, etc. I used to think so myself, but DNA data doesn't prove it. You have Turks who are like 10-20% East Asian, so Oghuz admixture seems to be significant (mind you they were not 100% East Asian like Koreans from the start, they were already Caucasoid-Mongoloid/Eurasian like Karakalpaks or Turkmens now).

[Hudayar]

Hello, J2a is native in Anastolia, central Asian version of J2 is not related with Anatolian J2a.

Now we're talking about subclades?
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?228594-J2a2-PH3085-SK1403-Ancient-Altai-modern-Uygur-and-Turkish



I can also post the Gedmatch results of a Turk who has J1 haplogroup yet he has nothing to do with Arabs. Haplogroups do not prove anything. But autosomal dna does.

[Lavrentis]

The Turks of Turkey are not just assimilated Anatolians, Greeks, Armenians, Circassians, Balkan Slavs, etc.

Greek autosomal admixture is actually very uncommon in Turkey. I have seen other Turkish results, not the cherry-picked ones that OP posted, and they didn't have Greeks at their top populations.


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[Hudayar]

Greek autosomal admixture is actually very uncommon in Turkey. I have seen other Turkish results, not the cherry-picked ones that OP posted, and they didn't have Greeks at their top populations.


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I didn't cherry pick anything. I just posted what i grabbed first.

[Gangrel]

Greek autosomal admixture is actually very uncommon in Turkey. I have seen other Turkish results, not the cherry-picked ones that OP posted, and they didn't have Greeks at their top populations.


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I thought you didn't even know how to use Gedmatch or how it worked?

[Lavrentis]

J2a is a Neolithic haplogroup/marker.


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[Gramos]

Now we're talking about subclades?
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?228594-J2a2-PH3085-SK1403-Ancient-Altai-modern-Uygur-and-Turkish



I can also post the Gedmatch results of a Turk who has J1 haplogroup yet he has nothing to do with Arabs.

Turks are R1a, R1b, J1, J2, G, Q, C, N, I... all haplogroup on the world are from Turks and all humans are Turkic origin, tell me more about that.
You are not real Turks, you're a turkified mix of many nations and races from Ottoman Empire.

[Lavrentis]

I thought you didn't even know how to use Gedmatch or how it worked?

I have seen results. What I said is that I don't know how to use it


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[Hudayar]

The Turks of Turkey are not just assimilated Anatolians, Greeks, Armenians, Circassians, Balkan Slavs, etc. I used to think so myself, but DNA data doesn't prove it. You have Turks who are like 10-20% East Asian, so Oghuz admixture seems to be significant (mind you they were not 100% East Asian like Koreans from the start, they were already Caucasoid-Mongoloid/Eurasian like Karakalpaks or Turkmens now).

Yes. I also used to think that the Anatolian hypothesis is true but i wasn't so sure. So i started to read about genetics, the more i read the more evidences which debunked the hypothesis i saw. I think the Oghuz heritage depends on the person but on the average it should be around 30% or 40% maybe lower or higher than that.

[Hudayar]

Turks are R1a, R1b, J1, J2, G, Q, C, N, I... all haplogroup on the world are from Turks and all humans are Turkic origin, tell me more about that.
You are not real Turks, you're a turkified mix of many nations and races from Ottoman Empire.

You're the haplotard here. You tell me. As i mentioned before haplogroups do not prove anything. I saw a Turk from Northeastern Anatolia who had haplogroup C yet had like 6-7% mongoloid heritage. Then there's this guy from Western Anatolia who had haplogroup J1 as his Y-DNA yet he was around 12-14% mongoloid.

Which one is more "Turkic". The C or J1 guy?


And "you're not real Turks" is not an argument. I didn't say anything about being 100% pure. And "you're a mix of many nations and races from Ottoman Empire." statement is also wrong. I can also say the same about Romanians.

[Gangrel]

Don't know why Y-DNA is held in so much importance tbh. Some study I read, there is a Siberian man (forgot the clan) near the Beringian strait who had the same exact Y-DNA subclade as me

[Leto]

Yes. I also used to think that the Anatolian hypothesis is true but i wasn't so sure. So i started to read about genetics, the more i read the more evidences which debunked the hypothesis i saw. I think the Oghuz heritage depends on the person but on the average it should be around 30% or 40% or maybe lower or higher than that.
Sounds plausible to me. At least a third of the gene pool is not of Anatolian origin.

[Gramos]

You're the haplotard here. You tell me. As i mentioned before haplogroups do not prove anything. I saw a Turk from Northeastern Anatolia who had haplogroup C yet had like 6-7% mongoloid heritage. Then there's this guy from Western Anatolia who had haplogroup J1 as his Y-DNA yet he was around 12-14% mongoloid.

Which one is more "Turkic". The C or J1 guy?


And "you're not real Turks" is not an argument. I didn't say anything about being 100% pure. And "you're a mix of many nations and races from Ottoman Empire." statement is also wrong. I can also say the same about Romanians.

Guy with more mongoloid at autosomal is more Turkic.
All nations are mix, but Turkish turanists want that Turkish people are pure Turks and that is nonsense. Even Turks from central Asia are not pure Turks, the purest Turks are Siberian Turks.

[Hudayar]

Guy with more mongoloid at autosomal is more Turkic.
All nations are mix, but Turkish turanists want that Turkish people are pure Turks and that is nonsense. Even Turks from central Asia are not pure Turks, the purest Turks are Siberian Turks.

We can agree on that. Now you're starting to become more logical. Keep up the good work :thumb001:

[Marmara]

Guy with more mongoloid at autosomal is more Turkic.
All nations are mix, but Turkish turanists want that Turkish people are pure Turks and that is nonsense. Even Turks from central Asia are not pure Turks, the purest Turks are Siberian Turks.

No one says Anatolian Turks are pure Turkics, it's you guys who keep saying Turks are just assimilated Anatolians with no Turkic heritage, as if Turkic migration never happened and people just started speaking Turkish by themselves.

All Turks have Central Asian Oghuz heritage, the rest of results show how much those Oghuzes were mixed with Anatolians.

[LoLeL]

I expected more Q and R1b (especially the Q), because if I'm not wrong, they are most common haplogroups in Turkmenistan.

[Hudayar]

I expected more Q and R1b (especially the Q), because if I'm not wrong, they are most common haplogroups in Turkmenistan.

AFAIK that study only has like 50 Turkmens.

Also majority of Turkics have more "Turkic" mt-dna than Y-dna for some reasons.

[Gramos]

No one says Anatolian Turks are pure Turkics, it's you guys who keep saying Turks are just assimilated Anatolians with no Turkic heritage, as if Turkic migration never happened and people just started speaking Turkish by themselves.

All Turks have Central Asian Oghuz heritage, the rest of results show how much those Oghuzes were mixed with Anatolians.

Anatolian Turks have Turkic ancestors but question is how many.
Anatolian Turks are 7-10% mongoloid on average (Turks from Istanbul and Thrace even less), and Oghuz Turks who settled in Anatolia in XI century were probably 50% mongoloids.

[Hudayar]

Anatolian Turks have Turkic ancestors but question is how many.
Anatolian Turks are 7-10% mongoloid on average (Turks from Istanbul and Thrace even less), and Oghuz Turks who settled in Anatolia in XI century were probably 50% mongoloids.

the average Turkish mongoloid dna varies from person to person. However, average is actually higher i believe. It should be around 5-15%. Some Turks score below that some Turks score above that.

http://media.springernature.com/full/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1186%2F1471-2164-15-963/MediaObjects/12864_2014_Article_6660_Fig2_HTML.jpg
http://i.hizliresim.com/vEB25v.png
http://i65.tinypic.com/11burk0.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Hsx6aOInUE/Whr2rRxvPjI/AAAAAAAAAJ0/pmpiCOGIKRUfzWmuNXFFQop6zG6Kk6V1wCLcBGAs/s1600/East%2BEurasian%2B1.png


And Turkmens on Gedmatch spreadsheets are 20-40% Mongoloid on average.

[Gramos]

the average Turkish mongoloid dna varies from person to person. However, average is actually higher i believe.

http://media.springernature.com/full/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1186%2F1471-2164-15-963/MediaObjects/12864_2014_Article_6660_Fig2_HTML.jpg
http://i.hizliresim.com/vEB25v.png
http://i65.tinypic.com/11burk0.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Hsx6aOInUE/Whr2rRxvPjI/AAAAAAAAAJ0/pmpiCOGIKRUfzWmuNXFFQop6zG6Kk6V1wCLcBGAs/s1600/East%2BEurasian%2B1.png


And Turkmens on Gedmatch spreadsheets are 20-40% Mongoloid on average.

Oghuz were probably more mongoloid than modern Turkmens because Turkmens were mixed with Persians.
15-18% mongoloid is rare amomg Turkish people, and it is present only among Yoruks.

[LoLeL]

AFAIK that study only has like 50 Turkmens.

Also majority of Turkics have more "Turkic" mt-dna than Y-dna for some reasons.

One reason is a mass migration. Warriors conquered the lands and regular people moved to those lands. So it's normal if the women were the majority of those regular peoples.

[Hudayar]

Oghuz were probably more mongoloid than modern Turkmens because Turkmens were mixed with Persians.
15-18% mongoloid is rare amomg Turkish people, and it is present only among Yoruks.

15-18% is present among non Yörüks too. For example: Giresun. The highest average is around 15%. Lowest average should be around 7%.

Also Oghuzes were not mongoloid than Turkmens. There's still no evidence for that. Only some Turkmens are mixed with Persians. But some Turkmens also mixed with Kazakhs too.

[Böri]

Oghuz were probably more mongoloid than modern Turkmens because Turkmens were mixed with Persians.
15-18% mongoloid is rare amomg Turkish people, and it is present only among Yoruks.

I am no Yörük.

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus_Gedrosia 37.57
2 Southern 26.24
3 Atlantic_Baltic 17.19
4 Siberian 8.88
5 East_Asian 6.57
6 South_Asian 2.77
7 Amerindian 0.4
8 Australasian 0.33
9 African 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Turks (Behar) 8.66
2 Turkish (Dodecad) 9.8
3 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 10.97
4 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 13.16
5 Balkars (Yunusbayev) 13.48
6 North_Ossetians (Yunusbayev) 14.53
7 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 14.75
8 Adygei (HGDP) 15.05
9 Armenians (Behar) 15.15
10 Iranian (Dodecad) 16.47
11 Iranians (Behar) 17.78
12 Kurd (Dodecad) 18.05
13 Chechens (Yunusbayev) 18.23
14 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 18.44
15 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 18.74
16 Uzbekistan_Jews 18.85
17 Georgians (Behar) 19.53
18 Armenian (Dodecad) 19.62
19 Armenians (Yunusbayev) 19.91
20 Cypriots (Behar) 20.59

[Hudayar]

One reason is a mass migration. Warriors conquered the lands and regular people moved to those lands. So it's normal if the women were the majority of those regular peoples.

The best example is Kyrgyz migration.

Their mongoloid mt dna is around 60% and y-dna is around 20%

http://i50.tinypic.com/25hirzk.jpg

[Marmara]

Oghuz were probably more mongoloid than modern Turkmens because Turkmens were mixed with Persians.
15-18% mongoloid is rare amomg Turkish people, and it is present only among Yoruks.

Controversial. Oghuz people could be even less mongoloid than modern Turkmens and Uzbeks (Uzbeks aren't Oghuz). After Mongol Conquest, a lot of people were massacred and Mongols later settled in Central Asia, converted to Islam and assimilated into Turkic culture. They mongolized Central Asia even further.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turco-Mongol_tradition

[Böri]

y-dna from wiki is biased. What's 'Caucasoid ydna? They would consider N Caucasoid because it's seen in some Europeans. However they would consider Q Asian because it's more in Asians and Amerindians.

Actually I also doubt that in the very beginning there were 3 distinct races
Caucasoid
Mongoloid
Negroid
and everybody came out through these 3 distinct groups which also mixed?

I doubt. Red Sea people are black skinned but different than SSA and Semites.
Semites were also distinct with their big nose etc and you can't get Semite by mixing Europeans with Blacks.
Same with Turkic groups represented by the Turanid pheno or the Uralids who also developped and evolved separately.

The theory there were 3 races and all nations appeared from mixture of these 3 sounds biased. It's outdated.
It didn't happen like that.

Some types evolved and developed separately.

[Hudayar]

Controversial. Oghuz people could be even less mongoloid than modern Turkmens and Uzbeks (Uzbeks aren't Oghuz). After Mongol Conquest, a lot of people were massacred and Mongols later settled in Central Asia, converted to Islam and assimilated into Turkic culture. They mongolized Central Asia even further.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turco-Mongol_tradition

To be honest i think Mongolians only changed Kazakhstan genetically. A lot of Mongolian tribes were assimilated in Kazakhstan.

[Leto]

The best example is Kyrgyz migration.

Their mongoloid mt dna is around 60% and y-dna is around 20%

http://i50.tinypic.com/25hirzk.jpg
Good chart, but I find it odd that Tajiks have less South Asian DNA than Uzbeks, Kazakhs and even Turks.

[Marmara]

To be honest i think Mongolians only changed Kazakhstan genetically. A lot of Mongolian tribes were assimilated in Kazakhstan.

They also changed Uzbekistan. I'm not sure about Turkmenistan. Original Kypchaks were very caucasoid while Kazakhs are very mongoloid.

[Gramos]

I am no Yörük.

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus_Gedrosia 37.57
2 Southern 26.24
3 Atlantic_Baltic 17.19
4 Siberian 8.88
5 East_Asian 6.57
6 South_Asian 2.77
7 Amerindian 0.4
8 Australasian 0.33
9 African 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Turks (Behar) 8.66
2 Turkish (Dodecad) 9.8
3 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 10.97
4 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 13.16
5 Balkars (Yunusbayev) 13.48
6 North_Ossetians (Yunusbayev) 14.53
7 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 14.75
8 Adygei (HGDP) 15.05
9 Armenians (Behar) 15.15
10 Iranian (Dodecad) 16.47
11 Iranians (Behar) 17.78
12 Kurd (Dodecad) 18.05
13 Chechens (Yunusbayev) 18.23
14 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 18.44
15 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 18.74
16 Uzbekistan_Jews 18.85
17 Georgians (Behar) 19.53
18 Armenian (Dodecad) 19.62
19 Armenians (Yunusbayev) 19.91
20 Cypriots (Behar) 20.59

You are 15,45 mongoloid, do you have some recent central Asian ancestors?

[Hudayar]

You are 15,45 mongoloid, do you have some recent central Asian ancestors?

he's from Giresun.

Turks from Giresun are one of the most Mongoloid Turks. The average is around 15-18% there.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I have recently discovered this. It's kinda surprising
It's from personal genetic results of Turks.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RMhMUGBITHs/WhyipNr73TI/AAAAAAAAAKg/nJ-ViW7zG9UbaQ972_8I9VTD7CnuMn9eQCLcBGAs/s1600/24135520_387820838341564_1470787737_n.png


source: https://turkishdna.blogspot.com.tr/

I have no idea how I1 could gone in Turkey :D

[Gramos]

he's from Giresun.

Turks from Giresun are one of the most Mongoloid Turks. The average is around 15-18% there.

I thought that Turks from Aydin are the most mongoloid in Turkey.

[Hudayar]

I have no idea how I1 could gone in Turkey :D

Only a minority has it. Maybe it's due to Balkan migration who knows. Some samples were from Edirne etc.

[Hudayar]

I thought that Turks from Aydin are the most mongoloid in Turkey.

Aydın is around 14%. Actually they're in the average.

The most mongoloid Turk i saw was around 18-19% and he was from Çanakkale (Gallipoli). And there was a sample from Muğla who scored identical to that.

[Gramos]

I have no idea how I1 could gone in Turkey :D

From Normans wich were in Byzantine army.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Only a minority has it. Maybe it's due to Balkan migration who knows. Some samples were from Edirne etc.

Point is that this is not very represented in Balkan too.

[Hudayar]

You are 15,45 mongoloid, do you have some recent central Asian ancestors?

here's a Turk with recent Central Asian heritage

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?225638-Ulash-s-(1-2-Turkish-1-4-Kyrgyz-1-4-Kazakh)-GEDmatch-Results

he's around 35-40% Mongoloid

[Marmara]

I have no idea how I1 could gone in Turkey :D

More surprising is that it's higher than I2. Interestingly, Turks and Balkanites aren't alike at all, especially after all those Devshirmes and Janissaries. Eastern Europeans or Balkanites aren't genetically closer to Turks than rest of Europe.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

More surprising is that it's higher than I2. Interestingly, Turks and Balkanites aren't alike at all, especially after all those Devshirmes and Janissaries. Eastern Europeans or Balkanites aren't genetically closer to Turks than rest of Europe.

It seems that you are right, according to this genetic analyses.

But Eastern European logically are not genetically close to Turks.

[Marmara]

It seems that you are right, according to this genetic analyses.

Not only genetic analyses but also my personal experience. Slavic phenotype is VERY atypical in Turkey. Dark pigmentation is common among balkanites but even that doesn't help. I have a Bosniak classmate (his family is a Yugoslavian civil war refugee), and i swear even some Irishmen have better chance of passing Turkish than him. It doesn't make any sense though.

I haven't been in Balkans yet, i talk according to what i see from Turkey.

[Marmara]

I didn't mean Eastern Europeans are genetically closer to Turks, i meant that logically Eastern Europeans would be less alien than rest of Europeans (except Southerns) in Turkey, and simply would have more genetic impact (due to geography and history)

[Gramos]

Anatolian Turks and Finns have similar percentage of autosomal mongoloid DNA, both are 10-15% mongoloids on average.

[Böri]

Anatolian Turks and Finns have similar percentage of autosomal mongoloid DNA, both are 10-15% mongoloids on average.

Yeah this is known. that's also why we have a special crush on Finns among all Europeans :)

[Gramos]

Yeah this is known. that's also why we have a special crush on Finns among all Europeans :)

Who is the most mongloloid influenced in Europe after Finns and Turks (if Turkey is in Europe?), Russians, Baltic people, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Romanians...?

[Hudayar]

Who is the most mongloloid influenced in Europe after Finns and Turks (if Turkey is in Europe?), Russians, Baltic people, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Romanians...?

If we consider Turkey as a European country then most mongoloid ethnicities go like this

Samis
Northern Russians=Turks (depends on the person)
Finns
Russians
Romanians
Bulgarians
Hungarians

[Leto]

Anatolian Turks and Finns have similar percentage of autosomal mongoloid DNA, both are 10-15% mongoloids on average.
I've never seen a Finn who was over 10% Siberian, so you're wrong. Finns are 5-10% Siberian.

[Leto]

y-dna from wiki is biased. What's 'Caucasoid ydna? They would consider N Caucasoid because it's seen in some Europeans. However they would consider Q Asian because it's more in Asians and Amerindians.

Actually I also doubt that in the very beginning there were 3 distinct races
Caucasoid
Mongoloid
Negroid
and everybody came out through these 3 distinct groups which also mixed?

I doubt. Red Sea people are black skinned but different than SSA and Semites.
Semites were also distinct with their big nose etc and you can't get Semite by mixing Europeans with Blacks.
Same with Turkic groups represented by the Turanid pheno or the Uralids who also developped and evolved separately.

The theory there were 3 races and all nations appeared from mixture of these 3 sounds biased. It's outdated.
It didn't happen like that.

Some types evolved and developed separately.
There are Western Eurasians and Eastern Eurasians. This division into Caucasoids and Mongoloids is just more convenient. And East Africans do resemble a mix of Arabians and black Africans. Both genetically and physically.

[Leto]

If we consider Turkey as a European country then most mongoloid ethnicities go like this

Samis
Northern Russians=Turks (depends on the person)
Finns
Russians
Romanians
Bulgarians
Hungarians
Volga Tatars, Mari, Udmurts, Komi, Mordvins all live in European Russia.

[Stears]

Who is the most mongloloid influenced in Europe after Finns and Turks (if Turkey is in Europe?), Russians, Baltic people, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Romanians...?

Serbians.

you are sockpuppet no. 1000 from Serbo Makeridov

[Danaan]

I agree with Hudayar.

Concerning J2a in particular I was one of those who had said that we will find it in Myceneans and that apparently was true.

But Turkic groups, especially Oghuz Turks could have had it because it had expanded towards Central Asia too. What haplogroups the original speakers of the language had is a different question because those who moved to Anatolia were Oghuz, not proto-Turks.

[Hudayar]

I've never seen a Finn who was over 10% Siberian, so you're wrong. Finns are 5-10% Siberian.

Also this
take a look at this for example. The slight mongoloid influenced Northern Europeans are Finns and compared to us they're less East Eurasian influenced than Turks.
http://media.springernature.com/full/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1186%2F1471-2164-15-963/MediaObjects/12864_2014_Article_6660_Fig2_HTML.jpg

[Hudayar]

I agree with Hudayar.

Concerning J2a in particular I was one of those who had said that we will find it in Myceneans and that apparently was true.

But Turkic groups, especially Oghuz Turks could have had it because it had expanded towards Central Asia too. What haplogroups the original speakers of the language had is a different question because those who moved to Anatolia were Oghuz, not proto-Turks.

They also found J2a in ancient Altaic samples. And that subclade of J2a was found in one Uyghur and one Turk.
https://j2-m172.info/2015/06/j2a2-ph3085-sk1403-ancient-altai-modern-uygur-turkish/
of course the link is dead but i made a thread about it
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?228594-J2a2-PH3085-SK1403-Ancient-Altai-modern-Uygur-and-Turkish

I usually don't talk about haplogroups but if you (not YOU, i mean generally) make something really stupid like looking at J2 and saying this is an ancient Anatolian haplogroup then no one can take you seriously. J2 exists everywhere from Italy to Xinjiang.

[ButlerKing]

The best example is Kyrgyz migration.

Their mongoloid mt dna is around 60% and y-dna is around 20%

http://i50.tinypic.com/25hirzk.jpg


It is very stupid trying to explain the formation of Kyrgyz DNA in Central Asia. I also find it stupid that people think that only Mongoloid conquerors carried, C, Q, O, N, D . Since we all agreed Turkic were hybrid population... it's very likely that a large percentage of them were already mixed Mongoloid males were carrying R1a, R1b, J2 long before they even migrated to Central Asia and Turkey. We even have ancient burials of Mongoloid males with R1a buried with Caucasoid women and this existed since 300 BC so it's stupid to think that any Caucasian Y-DNA in Central Asia can only be contributed by Caucasoid males and not Mongoloid mix race males.



Some people think Turkic conquerors were 100% Mongoloid autoDNA carrying haplogroup Q, N.

How we do know they couldn't have been R1a, J2 with a 70-80% Mongoloid DNA ?

How do we know they didn't already looked like this ?

https://photos.smugmug.com/Asia/Kyrgyzstan/Issyk-Kul-Lake/i-sHq895w/0/2ffaf238/O/1762451669_a8de596568_o.jpg


How do we know that Kyrgyz were already a mixed population of Mongoloid/Caucasoid that predates the Mongol invasion of Central Asia by thousand years ?

How do we know they didn't exist as a result of mostly Scythian male ancestry with Siberian-Turkic women instead of mostly Mongol-Turkic women with Iranian men/ or Turkic men ?

Maybe.... Kyrgyz were already a hybrid population just like the Pazyryk culture where the males are half Mongoloid but females were Caucasoid. The Scythian men taugh their sons their nomadic skills and lifestyle. It's more likely that Mongoloid Turkic males with R1a, R1b, J2 contributed more DNA to Central Asia than the pure Mongoloid male haplogroup.

Kyrgyz ancestors existed as a result of Caucasoid male with R1a mixing with Mongoloid women


LATER Kyrgyz existed with pure Mongoloid males and half Mongoloid males mixed with Caucasian Iranian women.


West Eurasian mtDNA is also as high as 42.6% in Kyrgyz , to put it bluntly this means women of Caucasian female ancestry couldn't have went unf*cked by Mongoloid males and part Mongoloid males. Because quite honestly there is not Kyrgyz who is pure, they all have high Mongoloid admixture.



Also Mongoloid Y-DNA is not just 20% and R1a is not always over 60%, in other studies of Kyrgyz group they have only 37%, 40%

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/KyrgyzY_DNA.gif



" The genetic makeup of the Kyrgyz is consistent with their origin as a mix of tribes.[30][31] For instance, 63% of modern Kyrgyz men of Jumgal District[32] share Haplogroup R1a1 (Y-DNA) with Ishkashimis (68%),[30] Tajiks of Panjikent (64%),[33][34] Pashtuns (51%),[35] and Bartangis (40%).[30][36] Low diversity of Kyrgyz R1a1 indicates a founder effect within the historical period.[33]

" Other groups of Kyrgyz show considerably lower haplogroup R frequencies and almost lack haplogroup N.[37] "

" West Eurasian mtDNA ranges from 27% to 42.6% in the Kyrgyz[38] with Haplogroup mtDNA H being the most predominant marker at 21.3% among the Kyrgyz.[38] "

[Hudayar]

6 new samples were added
https://i.hizliresim.com/ZOmlJV.png

[ButlerKing]

6 new samples were added
https://i.hizliresim.com/ZOmlJV.png


R1a, R1b is definitely Caucasian origin but since we are talking about Central Asia I have a hard time believing they aren't tainted by Mongoloid admixture.


I would think mix race Turkic Mongoloid males who carried ancient warrior Scythian male ancestry where better warriors than those pure/or almost pure Mongoloid invaders.

Their offspring inherited their father's skills


Pazyryk culture

" Craniological studies of samples from the Pazyryk burials revealed the presence of both Mongoloid and Caucasoid components in this population.[6] quoting G. F. Debets on the physical characteristics of the population in the Pazyryk kurgans, records a mixed population. The men would seem to be part Mongoloid and the women Europoid.[7] "


Anayino culture

Sculptural reconstruction of men Lugovskyi burial
Ananyino culture. Gypsum. MMGerasimov work.


" Reconstruction of the mounds number 5, 6 show burial Stone Barn in racial make women Ural mixed type men - striking features of Central Asian Mongoloid."

http://www.imageup.ru/img195/1641901/tyurk1.jpg

http://www.imageup.ru/img195/1641909/f-u1.jpg

[Hudayar]

R1a, R1b is definitely Caucasian origin but since we are talking about Central Asia I have a hard time believing they aren't tainted by Mongoloid admixture.


I would think mix race Turkic Mongoloid males who carried ancient warrior Scythian male ancestry where better warriors than those pure/or almost pure Mongoloid invaders.

Their offspring inherited their father's skills


Pazyryk culture

" Craniological studies of samples from the Pazyryk burials revealed the presence of both Mongoloid and Caucasoid components in this population.[6] quoting G. F. Debets on the physical characteristics of the population in the Pazyryk kurgans, records a mixed population. The men would seem to be part Mongoloid and the women Europoid.[7] "


Anayino culture

Sculptural reconstruction of men Lugovskyi burial
Ananyino culture. Gypsum. MMGerasimov work.


" Reconstruction of the mounds number 5, 6 show burial Stone Barn in racial make women Ural mixed type men - striking features of Central Asian Mongoloid."


what do you mean by "tainted by mongoloid admixture?"

Scientists also found J2 in Altai
https://j2-m172.info/2015/06/j2a2-ph3085-sk1403-ancient-altai-modern-uygur-turkish/
Is "J2" tainted by mongoloid admixture too?
We're talking about haplogroups here. not autosomal dna.

[Hudayar]

what do you mean by "tainted by mongoloid admixture?"

Scientists also found J2 in Altai
https://j2-m172.info/2015/06/j2a2-ph3085-sk1403-ancient-altai-modern-uygur-turkish/
Is "J2" tainted by mongoloid admixture too?
We're talking about haplogroups here. not autosomal dna.

here's the autosomal results of the J2 Altai guy

https://i.hizliresim.com/By3jdv.png
http://www.haplogruplar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/j2-north-altai-sary-bel-ancient-y-dna-sample-50bce.png

he's similar to Central Asians.

[ButlerKing]

what do you mean by "tainted by mongoloid admixture?"

Scientists also found J2 in Altai
https://j2-m172.info/2015/06/j2a2-ph3085-sk1403-ancient-altai-modern-uygur-turkish/
Is "J2" tainted by mongoloid admixture too?
We're talking about haplogroups here. not autosomal dna.


I'm talking about the original Turkic invaders. We already agreed they had to be mixed between Mongoloid-Caucasoid

The members here think that only haplogroup N, Q, C ect are Central Asian Mongoloid DNA contribution to Turkish population and Central Asia Turks but do we know the males from Central Asia who carried Caucasian Y-DNA wasn't heavily Mongoloid admixed people ?


Like for example this guy is 98% Mongoloid but carries R1a.... only is Y-DNA is Caucasian but in reality he is still just a Mongoloid male with Caucasian Y-DNA. If he mixed with a Iranian women the Y-DNA of his child is still R1a Caucasian but their autosomal DNA is still 46% Mongoloid.


https://robertlindsay.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/969780_634018766622770_1541635730_n.jpg

[Hudayar]

I'm talking about the original Turkic invaders. We already agreed they had to be mixed between Mongoloid-Caucasoid

Tthe members here think that only haplogroup N, Q, C ect are Central Asian Mongoloid DNA contribution to Turkish population and Central Asia but how we know the males from Central Asia who carried Caucasian Y-DNA wasn't a 70-80% Mongoloid individual.


Like for example this guy is 98% Mongoloid but carries R1a.... only is Y-DNA is Caucasian but in reality he is still just a Mongoloid male with Caucasian Y-DNA.


https://robertlindsay.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/969780_634018766622770_1541635730_n.jpg

Is that Kenji Endo from 20th Century Boys

[ButlerKing]

Is that Kenji Endo from 20th Century Boys

Don't know who he is. Anyway my point was I don't believe the Mongoloid DNA contribution to Turkey were sonly only haplogroup Q, N, C, O, D
I believe a Turkic male who carries haplogroup O3 was just as Mongoloid as the ones who carried haplogroup J2. One can say every haplogroup in Turkey with Central Asian origin were already tainted heavily by Mongoloid.

Oghuz Turks migration and intermixing with Anatolians were ALL ALREADY MIXED WITH MONGOLOID. A Seljuk male with with R1b was properly more Mongoloid looking than a Seljuk who carried haplogroup O3 ( I know seljuks didn't carried haplogroup O but I'm making a example here )

[ButlerKing]

here's the autosomal results of the J2 Altai guy

https://i.hizliresim.com/By3jdv.png
http://www.haplogruplar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/j2-north-altai-sary-bel-ancient-y-dna-sample-50bce.png

he's similar to Central Asians.

Yes.... this is what I mean't.

The male is haplogroup J2 but he is 33-41% Mongoloid according to your autosomal DNA study.

This is exactly what I mean by Caucasian Y-DNA tainted heavily by Mongoloid admixtures.

[Hudayar]

Don't know who he is. Anyway my point was I don't believe the Mongoloid DNA contribution to Turkey were sonly only haplogroup Q, N, C, O, D
I believe a Turkic male who carries haplogroup O3 was just as Mongoloid as the ones who carried haplogroup J2. One can say every haplogroup in Turkey with Central Asian origin were already tainted heavily by Mongoloid.

Oghuz Turks migration and intermixing with Anatolians were ALL ALREADY MIXED WITH MONGOLOID. A Seljuk male with with R1b was properly more Mongoloid looking than a Seljuk who carried haplogroup O3 ( I know seljuks didn't carried haplogroup O but I'm making a example here )

It was a joke :D
Also yes you're right but not sure who you're actually replying to. Certainly not to me because i already know what you're talking about.

[ButlerKing]

As i mentioned before haplogroups do not prove anything. I saw a Turk from Northeastern Anatolia who had haplogroup C yet had like 6-7% mongoloid heritage. Then there's this guy from Western Anatolia who had haplogroup J1 as his Y-DNA yet he was around 12-14% mongoloid.

Which one is more "Turkic". The C or J1 guy?



You're 100% correct completely. You're a very intelligent Turkish member.

[Bobby Martnen]

They're only about 1/4 European paternally...

[Rethel]

Indoeuropeans basically the same... Enaugh :)

[Leto]

Like for example this guy is 98% Mongoloid but carries R1a.... only is Y-DNA is Caucasian but in reality he is still just a Mongoloid male with Caucasian Y-DNA. If he mixed with a Iranian women the Y-DNA of his child is still R1a Caucasian but their autosomal DNA is still 46% Mongoloid.


https://robertlindsay.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/969780_634018766622770_1541635730_n.jpg
He is 100% Indo-European according to Rethel and can freely breed with Polish women.

[Rethel]

He is 100% Indo-European according to Rethel and can freely breed with Polish women.

He just is. What is according to me is irrelevant.
He is not descendant of pra-Mongoł or pra-Han.
And neither IEness is a race, neither Polishness.
Is it really so hard to understand?

Btw, I can assure you, that when his greatgrandpa
firstly married a mongol woman, his son did not was
a Mongol, neither such thought touched his mind.
He would just laughed you to the death if would
you suggest such stupid thing...

[Leto]

He just is. What is according to me is irrelevant.
He is not descendant of pra-Mongoł or pra-Han.
Is it really so hard to understand?
It can't be understood, because he is not white at all. Not even caucasoid. If he is indeed 98% East Eurasian, then he is no different racially from any other Chinese. I've seen a Russian from Kursk, he was like 6-7% mongoloid and had the C haplo. Is he Asian now? Being 1/16 mongoloid.

[Rethel]

It can't be understood

Yes, I see. And I wander, in which forest did you grow.


because he is not white at all.

did I say something about him being white? :picard2:


If he is indeed 98% East Eurasian, then he is no different racially from any other Chinese.

Are you a woman, that you pathologically has to speak about the appeariance?
This way, you will not be able to get anything. Whatever topic is, you are talking
always about the same, no matter, what someone else say, or what the topic is about.


I've seen a Russian from Kursk, he was like 6-7% mongoloid and had the C haplo. Is he Asian now? Being 1/16 mongoloid.

I see, that any explanations, even the simplest, are futile, as you had just explained
the terminology, and just in next post, as an answer, you show, that you totaly did
not understand such simple task. There is really no need even for average IQ to get it.

[Leto]

Yes, I see. And I wander, in which forest did you grow.



did I say something about him being white? :picard2:



Are you a woman, that you pathologically has to speak about the appeariance?
This way, you will not be able to get anything. Whatever topic is, you are talking
always about the same, no matter, what someone else say, or what the topic is about.



I see, that any explanations, even the simplest, are futile, as you had just explained
the terminology, and just in next post, as an answer, you show, that you totaly did
not understand such simple task. There is really no need even for average IQ to get it.
Rethel, you are a lunatic. You base people's identity on their pre-historic paternal lineage and I base it on race, ethnicity and culture as most normal people do. Calling that guy 'Indo-European' just because he has the R1a Y-haplogroup is ridiculous. Yet you always try to convince us that race doesn't matter or doesn't exist, while some transethnic and transracial Indo-Europeans somehow do.

[ButlerKing]

They also changed Uzbekistan. I'm not sure about Turkmenistan. Original Kypchaks were very caucasoid while Kazakhs are very mongoloid.

Actually they weren't as Caucasoid as we used to think they were.

They only mentioned they were predominant Caucasoid but never pure Caucasoid ( there's no such thing as pure Kipchak Caucasoid genetically since existence )

Anthropology

" According to Ukrainian anthropologists, Kipchaks had racial characteristics of Caucasians and Mongoloids, namely a broad flat face and protruding nose. Researcher E. P. Alekseeva drew attention to the fact that European Kipchak stone images have both Mongoloid and Caucasoid faces. However, in her opinion, Kipchaks, who settled in Georgia in the first half of the 12th century, were predominantly Caucasoid in appearance with some admixture of Mongoloid traits. They were already joined by Cumans. In the course of the Turkic expansion they migrated into Siberia and further into the Trans-Volga region.[3] "


http://s018.radikal.ru/i506/1202/ca/735016289912.jpg


A rough translation from Russian to English


" Turning to the overall ratio of the two major racial components in the physical appearance of the local inhabitants of the reporting time, the conditional share of Mongoloid elements as a whole amounted to 1/3 of populations." . A number of local groups impurity level reached half of the total gene pool. In some series of crania, particularly pritobolskoy Series VIII-X centuries. n. e. from Northern Kazakhstan, the conditional share Mongoloid reached 2/3 of the total weight. "


According to their anthropology data this means they used be about 1/3 Mongoloid and later became 2/3 Mongoloid.

I've seen many half breed Asian with a face like this before

http://i010.radikal.ru/1103/0b/c98b0f6bea79.jpg

[Rethel]

Rethel, you are a lunatic.

No, just normal, as 99% of cultures of 99% of time was.
Not my fault that you was depraved by Soviets, and you have some identity problems.
But do not put your insecurness into other things.


You base people's identity on their pre-historic paternal lineage

Yes, and this is their prehistoric identity.
What is your problem with that?
Normal people do not hate their farhers.
Not my fault that you have some problems with that.
Also not my fault, that you do not know your ancestors.
But if you live in such condition, you should rather try
to repair it, than to degradate anybody else to your
communal primitive ignorant level...


and I base it on race, ethnicity and culture as most normal people do.

No, you base on race, and then the rest.
It is something what never happened. So,
please, say it is your wish. Then will be ok.
I do not deny your wishes, if you want to.
Btw, you do not accept racial mixing, and
yet, you accept people, who are white
becasue of racial mixing. But I am not
surrprized of such incoherentness...


Calling that guy 'Indo-European' just because he has the R1a Y-haplogroup is ridiculous.

I agree. I do not call him IE becasue of that.


Yet you always try to convince us that race doesn't matter

Doesn't matter, where it doesn't matter.
In the case of IEness - doesn't.

Your claim that does, have similar sense as claiming, that only orthodoxes
are Russians, or that only whites can be orthodoxes. It is similar case. You
totaly don't understand what you are talking about.


or doesn't exist,

And where I did say it? WHERE!!!!!!!!!?????????????


while some transethnic and transracial Indo-Europeans somehow do.

Not my fault, that you suffer with deep delusions, and speak
with some imaginery version of me. Nothing strange, that you
do not understand what I say, if you insted of listening, what
I am saying, are listenong to what you want to hear. This what
you just wrote, is the best proof of it.

[Gangrel]

--

What do you consider J2s to be?

[Rethel]

What do you consider J2s to be?

Probably some kartvelian (if those are not G) or caspian people. Really hard
to say, but after last newest thesis, should be reconsider the idea, that J2
is the same Semitic as J1. I mean people, not necesserly tounge, which we
can discuss endlessly, never getting to the point. BUT closeness of living of
these two, would suggest it. Surely J2 is also Shem's, but the problem is, if
it did consist another paleotribe than J1 or not, when people separated.

[Rethel]

Rethel, you are a lunatic.

Btw, if I am lunatic, it means, that 99% of humankind is, 99%
of valuable constitutional books are, all our civilisation is, our
culture, and whole cziełowieczieskij stroj is also, including the
russian history and culture, and the more whole constitutional
ideas of Slavs and the more Indoeuropeans', who are here the
most relevant. You must understand, that your a postsovietic
hatefull racist, rootless, based on ignorance and based on the
disgust of own fathers, point of view, is not everything.

[Hudayar]

Finally it has more than 100 samples now! Y-Dna of 101 Turks!

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Zou8JC0XcdI/WkviOI1nPBI/AAAAAAAAAb8/tcgUSanTAWQrZD4lUkp15BFIH7lQSFbrQCLcBGAs/s1600/24135520_387820838341564_1470787737_n.png

[Sora]

J2, R1a, R1b, Q, N and E1b(because it found in Afshars) is Turkic. Wow! 70.29% I was expected less but it's good, too. Also the rest is I don't know

[Leto]

Actually they weren't as Caucasoid as we used to think they were.

They only mentioned they were predominant Caucasoid but never pure Caucasoid ( there's no such thing as pure Kipchak Caucasoid genetically since existence )

Anthropology

" According to Ukrainian anthropologists, Kipchaks had racial characteristics of Caucasians and Mongoloids, namely a broad flat face and protruding nose. Researcher E. P. Alekseeva drew attention to the fact that European Kipchak stone images have both Mongoloid and Caucasoid faces. However, in her opinion, Kipchaks, who settled in Georgia in the first half of the 12th century, were predominantly Caucasoid in appearance with some admixture of Mongoloid traits. They were already joined by Cumans. In the course of the Turkic expansion they migrated into Siberia and further into the Trans-Volga region.[3] "


http://s018.radikal.ru/i506/1202/ca/735016289912.jpg


A rough translation from Russian to English


" Turning to the overall ratio of the two major racial components in the physical appearance of the local inhabitants of the reporting time, the conditional share of Mongoloid elements as a whole amounted to 1/3 of populations." . A number of local groups impurity level reached half of the total gene pool. In some series of crania, particularly pritobolskoy Series VIII-X centuries. n. e. from Northern Kazakhstan, the conditional share Mongoloid reached 2/3 of the total weight. "


According to their anthropology data this means they used be about 1/3 Mongoloid and later became 2/3 Mongoloid.

I've seen many half breed Asian with a face like this before

http://i010.radikal.ru/1103/0b/c98b0f6bea79.jpg
I wish we had their DNA samples.

[Leto]

Finally it has more than 100 samples now! Y-Dna of 101 Turks!

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Zou8JC0XcdI/WkviOI1nPBI/AAAAAAAAAb8/tcgUSanTAWQrZD4lUkp15BFIH7lQSFbrQCLcBGAs/s1600/24135520_387820838341564_1470787737_n.png
No C at all? That's the most common haplogroup in the very Turkic country of Kazakhstan.

[Pahli]

No C at all? That's the most common hapllogroup in the very Turkic country of Kazakhstan.

C is Mongolian, N1b is native Turkic


Probably some kartvelian (if those are not G) or caspian people. Really hard
to say, but after last newest thesis, should be reconsider the idea, that J2
is the same Semitic as J1. I mean people, not necesserly tounge, which we
can discuss endlessly, never getting to the point. BUT closeness of living of
these two, would suggest it. Surely J2 is also Shem's, but the problem is, if
it did consist another paleotribe than J1 or not, when people separated.

J1 is not Semitic lmfao, it comes from Northeastern Caucasia xD

Its found in Karelian EHG too, its probably also Semitic xD

[Bornoz]

No C at all? That's the most common hapllogroup in the very Turkic country of Kazakhstan.

Is it really surprising?

[Leto]

Is it really surprising?
Yes, it is.

[Hudayar]

No C at all? That's the most common haplogroup in the very Turkic country of Kazakhstan.

There are like only 101 samples so far. I'm sure they'll find C samples too. I think it's around 1-2%.

Also fun fact: One of the guys who have haplogroup R1b has less North_European component dna than a guy who has haplogroup Q. Kilis is R1b and Karabük is Q

[Rethel]

J1 is not Semitic lmfao, it comes from Northeastern Caucasia xD

Let's assume, it is true. And what? Semites couldnt came from there? Do you forbid them? :picard1:

[Pennywise]

No C at all? That's the most common haplogroup in the very Turkic country of Kazakhstan.

Most C among Kazakhs were likely brought by Mongolic tribes. Kazakhs in core are not "very Turkic" either. Half of them are Turkified Mongolic tribes in fact. Plus, C is not common among other Turkic peoples.

[gültekin]

Which subclades of N?
Mainly N1b-P34>VL67 and subclades + 2 N1c
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/OghuzTurks?iframe=yresults

I don't exactly know. There are many of them. But one of them belongs to N-VL73
:) after Big-Y i'm now P43>VL67>VL73>VL83>VL85
https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-VL85/

[Leto]

Most C among Kazakhs were likely brought by Mongolic tribes. Kazakhs in core are not "very Turkic" either. Half of them are Turkified Mongolic tribes in fact. Plus, C is not common among other Turkic peoples.
Could be true. They are very close to Mongolia.

[Pennywise]

Could be true. They are very close to Mongolia.

Literally half of the tribes that contributed to ethnogenesis of modern day Kazakhs were Mongolic in origin. That's a well known fact. So you can't use them as a benchmark of "Turkicness" in terms of genetics.

[Böri]

There were few C in proto-Turkic Xiongnu burials dug out and tested, from Karasuk and Egyin Göl (Circa 3rd century BC). Like 10% of those +30 samples.
101 samples give an idea but that's still limited. If the sample reaches like 1000 specimens you can see maybe low rate in Turkey.

[gültekin]

Literally half of the tribes that contributed to ethnogenesis of modern day Kazakhs were Mongolic in origin. That's a well known fact. So you can't use them as a benchmark of "Turkicness" in terms of genetics.
Clan allegiance is still alive among Kazaks and via clan names they can trace their origin back to Mongolia. Buryat for example is one the famous one

[Leto]

Most C among Kazakhs were likely brought by Mongolic tribes. Kazakhs in core are not "very Turkic" either. Half of them are Turkified Mongolic tribes in fact. Plus, C is not common among other Turkic peoples.
What I find more interesting is that Kazakhs are at least 1/3 Scythian genetically.

[Hudayar]

There are like only 101 samples so far. I'm sure they'll find C samples too. I think it's around 1-2%.

Also fun fact: One of the guys who have haplogroup R1b has less North_European component dna than a guy who has haplogroup Q. Kilis is R1b and Karabük is Q

here's a Comparison between R1b Kilis sample and Q Karabük sample

Which one is more Indo-European?

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-j1qOjjTPyzc/WkzI7kZczVI/AAAAAAAAAes/fQg5RLLB87c3I4MUboOs2PbFowHOQxWrgCLcBGAs/s1600/Karab%25C3%25BCk%2B1.PNG
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6FmZ-buMmjM/WkzJIJHxN-I/AAAAAAAAAe4/x7Aac3081tsoHj42HZdbPNL-bwQc9sOmACLcBGAs/s1600/Kilis%2B1.PNG

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-f4YZ0XS8SDU/Wk4k2UUTO2I/AAAAAAAAAgg/QFVI5QNnkTcmXNKpb1Ftcv9bDGJxu4iGQCLcBGAs/s1600/Karab%25C3%25BCk%2B1.PNG
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SQIyiCN1_iU/Wgmn-rk6L3I/AAAAAAAAACc/oVy2fh752U8KQ-c9YMRgOxDhVGfeSRKaACLcBGAs/s1600/Kilis%2B1.PNG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_NzgugZPcaI/Wk4lC-JhS2I/AAAAAAAAAgo/rwDIvOdvl9M40LAov-n5TX60-rJ1pyCdgCLcBGAs/s1600/Karab%25C3%25BCk%2B1.PNG
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tyLdj72ZRPU/Wgm4n7Q3kZI/AAAAAAAAAFs/IOSctNuT4nwpeJqBmdHCRz6CSg_OMrzHgCLcBGAs/s1600/Kilis%2B1.PNG

[Cihan]

I have recently discovered this. It's kinda surprising
It's from personal genetic results of Turks.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RMhMUGBITHs/WhyipNr73TI/AAAAAAAAAKg/nJ-ViW7zG9UbaQ972_8I9VTD7CnuMn9eQCLcBGAs/s1600/24135520_387820838341564_1470787737_n.png

source: https://turkishdna.blogspot.com.tr/


Looks very diverse, not dominated by any one haplotype.

[Hudayar]

Looks very diverse, not dominated by any one haplotype.

A lot of countries are like this.

[Cihan]

A lot of countries are like this.

Might be. I’m kinda new here.

[Charles Bronson]

O hg just 0.19 percent thats mean in Turkey has ~76thousand people this hg, pretty rare.

[Karakhitai]

eupedia may have to update it's haplogroup N map

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?239438-Anatolian-Turks-16-04-N-3-77-Q

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

A pretty much useless chart that only tells you something about them 40-10 thousand years.
Except I1 and I2 maybe.

[Hudayar]

Updated

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xXETXuRkXqQ/Wr6v4ILqVgI/AAAAAAAAAao/ydDaMTV8jh07z-_J6MwUnB4qbRMCNEBPgCLcBGAs/s1600/107turk.png

[Leto]

No C and O at all.

[Gangrel]

No C and O at all.

Only O I've seen is bronsons

I have seen a few C mtDNAs though

[Karakhitai]

The C and O are found in Azerbaijianis and Kurds.

[Bobby Martnen]

I have recently discovered this. It's kinda surprising
It's from personal genetic results of Turks.


Why are there Turks with I1? Did they devshirme Germans or something?

[Marmara]

Why are there Turks with I1? Did they devshirme Germans or something?

No, I1 exists among other Turkic peoples as well, it's ancient in Central Asia.

[Marmara]

No C and O at all.

They are not Turkic haplogroups.

[Hudayar]

Why are there Turks with I1? Did they devshirme Germans or something?

Haplogroups are not directly related to ethnicity.

[Hudayar]

No C and O at all.

I have seen a Turk having C haplogroup on a forum. His ancestors were from Trabzon, Giresun etc. Though he was only 7% East Eurasian.

Haplogroup C is also uncommon among Turkics. Kazakhs and Kyrgyzes are the exceptions.

http://www.haplogruplar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/afghanistan-turkmens-ydna-haplogroups.png

https://i1.wp.com/www.haplogruplar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/ozbekler-ydna-haplogruplari.png

https://haplogruplar.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/kazaklar-y-dna-haplogrup-dagilimi.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/3536no3.png

[Bobby Martnen]

Haplogroups are not directly related to ethnicity.

They're somewhat related, but there is variation.

[Leto]

They are not Turkic haplogroups.
As if the present ones were purely Turkic...

[Charles Bronson]

As if the present ones were purely Turkic...


O is not a Turkic haplogroup.

[Dick]

No, I1 exists among other Turkic peoples as well, it's ancient in Central Asia.

+I1

[Leto]

O is not a Turkic haplogroup.
Neither are R1a/b, I2, J1/2, G, etc.

[Leto]

http://i65.tinypic.com/3536no3.png
I would like to see a more compehensive study on Kyrgyz people. I think if you include both Northern and Southern provinces, the share of R1a may be somewhat lower.

[Hudayar]

As if the present ones were purely Turkic...

I don't think there's such thing as Turkic haplogroup. Because we don't know what Ancient Turkics were like. Also even Turkics who live next to each other in Central Asia are wildly different from each other haplogroup wise. By Ancient Turkics i mean the Turkics before Xiognus. Some Historians say Turkics come from Siberia and migrated from there to Mongolia where they adopted nomadic lifestyle. Ancient Turkic dna is a mystery.

[Leto]

I don't think there's such thing as Turkic haplogroup. Because we don't know what Ancient Turkics were like. Also even Turkics who live next to each other in Central Asia are wildly different from each other haplogroup wise. By Ancient Turkics i mean the Turkics before Xiognus. Some Historians say Turkics come from Siberia and migrated from there to Mongolia where they adopted nomadic lifestyle. Ancient Turkic dna is a mystery.
I think it's clear they looked pretty much like Altai or Tuvan people. And their initial haplogroups must have been Asian.

[Hudayar]

I think it's clear they looked pretty much like Altai or Tuvan people. And their initial haplogroups must have been Asian.

I think majority of them had N and Q and other haplogroups originated in Siberia. But that's just what I think.

[Yaglakar]

No C at all? That's the most common haplogroup in the very Turkic country of Kazakhstan.

What is interesting is that Turkish language is morphologically, structurally and vocabulary wise closer to Türk runic inscriptions in Mongolia than Kazakh. The so called Oğuz and so called Qarluq languages are descendants of Türk Khaganates represented by populations which are less Mongoloid. Nobody has definite answers to what happened to Türks and why they disappeared as a people. In fact ethnonyms such as Oğuz and Kirghiz predate Türks. And we should also not confuse old Uighurs with modern Uyghurs, Oğuz of Mongolia/adjacent lands with the modern Oğuz denomination, Yenisei Kirghiz with modern Kyrgyz. Here is my take on things: Some Tiele/Gaoche (people of high carts) move to the west and become Oğur Turks (Huns, Bulgars, and possibly Avars). The ones that are left become Oğuz Turks in Mongolia. Türks are either of Oğuz origin (as prominent Russian turkologist Bartold claimed) or closely related (recorded in Türk inscriptions). Oğuz definitely outnumbered Türks and the main corpus of forces in Turkic Khaganates were Oğuz. Later before the establishment of Uighur Khaganate, a branch of Oğuz broke off from the main group in Mongolia and eventually became Turkmens, Azerbaijanis and Anatolian Turks.


I think it's clear they looked pretty much like Altai or Tuvan people. And their initial haplogroups must have been Asian.

Not necessarily, these peoples are heavily mongolized culturally and have been under Mongol dominance for along period of time since 13th century onwards. Mongolic languages are represented both in Altai and Tuva even today.


By Ancient Turkics i mean the Turkics before Xiognus. Some Historians say Turkics come from Siberia and migrated from there to Mongolia where they adopted nomadic lifestyle. Ancient Turkic dna is a mystery.

Even before Xiongnu, proto-Turkic speaking peoples occupied vast areas of North-East Asia. This is supported linguistically, numerous Chinese vocabulary in proto-Turkic, loanwords in proto-Samoyedic (branch of Uralic) from proto-Turkic, and proto-Siberian (like modern Ket) loanwords from proto-Turkic. These exchanges and borrowings couldn't have occurred instantaneously at the time of Xiongnu. Siberian origin is a popular myth, one has to include areas like Mongolia, north-east Kazakhstan, inner Mongolia, Dzungaria and vast swathes of southern Siberia.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

wish they gave subclades instead of just telling useless info like i1 or j1

[Bunalim]

Does anyone have a breakdown of haplogroup by region?

[Bunalim]

Does anyone have a breakdown of haplogroup by region?

http://kurdishdna.blogspot.nl/2012/04/cinnioglu-et-al-2004.html

[Proto-Shaman]

Turkey is a mix of all Balkan nations + some Turks..

Reminds me on India and USA
Martians also Balkan bro.

[Hudayar]

Updated. We now have 119 samples. One sample has haplogroup C.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g-xRnnqxt2I/WxxPO90u5RI/AAAAAAAAAgI/Z_yW6Zmfzj8cM4c9YLTYIJCd9im2c8cggCLcBGAs/s1600/119turk.png

[Böri]

Updated. We now have 119 samples. One sample has haplogroup C.


İ wonder where person is from.

[Hudayar]

İ wonder where person is from.

Could be from any part of Turkey actually. My guess is Giresun-Ordu.

[Nurzat]

of the J2 how many are J2a1b (=J2a4h)?

[Hudayar]

of the J2 how many are J2a1b (=J2a4h)?

Sadly cannot say anything about that. You can email one of the project admins (their email addresses are here)

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g-xRnnqxt2I/WxxPO90u5RI/AAAAAAAAAgI/Z_yW6Zmfzj8cM4c9YLTYIJCd9im2c8cggCLcBGAs/s1600/119turk.png

[Nurzat]

Sadly cannot say anything about that. You can email one of the project admins (their email addresses are here)

thanks. I am J2a1b :D I know it's quite popular in northeastern Turkey, it comes from the Caucasus. but this hg is also popular in Austria for example, and among Tuscans and Jews... really old shit. Dr. Oz (Mehmet Cengiz Öz) is exactly this haplogroup

[Proto-Shaman]

Sadly cannot say anything about that. You can email one of the project admins (their email addresses are here)

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g-xRnnqxt2I/WxxPO90u5RI/AAAAAAAAAgI/Z_yW6Zmfzj8cM4c9YLTYIJCd9im2c8cggCLcBGAs/s1600/119turk.png
my Turan calculation:
https://i.imgur.com/HAcJHN3.png

[Crimson Winds]

Search is dead I suppose, not a mile for months.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3N3d_4vMRfk/W2nDiuHec2I/AAAAAAAAAho/M4aF-vLoZ9g5U-aY624WSwRlDs2vBMZpACLcBGAs/s640/122tr.png

[Fareedan]

Interesting

[Fareedan]

But how the haplo A got to Turkey

Can be Sub Sahara > North Africa > Levant >Anatolia route?

[Fiko0]

I have my y37 results and im also J2a1.

[altaic]

+ R1b L23

[Pater Patota]

+ R1b L23

Afaik, your ydna is typical IE, Hittite and Armenian.

[porpozontokonto]

But one of them belongs to N-VL73

That's gültekin


Y-DNA: N1b-P34>VL67>VL85 Pazyryk Kurgan

[Pine]

thanks. I am J2a1b :D I know it's quite popular in northeastern Turkey, it comes from the Caucasus. but this hg is also popular in Austria for example, and among Tuscans and Jews... really old shit. Dr. Oz (Mehmet Cengiz Öz) is exactly this haplogroup

Might be more common in Lebanon than in Turkey.