Finland Seeks Explanation of Russian Land Sales Ban

[The Ripper]

Finland will ask Russia for an explanation of a new ban on property sales to foreigners covering wide swaths of north-western Russia. On Tuesday Russian officials published a list of areas where sales of land to foreigners or foreign companies is forbidden.

The list includes most of the areas across Finland’s eastern border, a total of 34 cities and districts. There are a few exceptions such as the town of Priozersk, which was the Finnish town of Käkisalmi until the Second World War.

According to the Russian Embassy in Helsinki, the list is related to a law dating back to 2001 that blocked foreigner ownership along the border zone. That zone has now been defined by presidential decree.

Embassy officials declined to explain to YLE the aim of the law or why the areas are so extensive.

Tuesday’s announcement is bad news for Finns planning to buy land across the border – or who have done so over the past decade.

Old Deals to be Cancelled?

The Finnish Foreign Ministry will ask for an explanation of the move.

“We stick to the principle of reciprocity as long as it is realistic and possible,” says Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb. “We’ll talk with Russian authorities about how this can be realised. If one can buy land here, then of course one should be able to buy land on the other side of the border as well.” Stubb believes that the ruling is related to Russia’s internal politics.

The ministry will also look into the fate of land deals that have already been carried out. According to the Finnish Karelian League, Finns have bought several dozen properties in the area since 2001.

Leena Lehtinen, a Tampere lawyer who has served as a consultant on deals in Russia for decades, believes that any land deals made in these areas since 2001 will be annulled and that the buyers will not be able to get their money back.

YLE



http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2011/01/finland_seeks_explanation_of_russian_land_sales_ba n_2283610.html

I think it is appalling how there are next to no restrictions in foreign land ownership in Finland, and how anything and everything seems to be for sale. Russia's attitude towards Finnish land ownership in former Finnish Karelia is enough to deny Russian land ownership in Finland.

[Talvi]

The same thing applies to Estonians and Setus living in the border areas.

I was also thinking that we should have the same kind of ban (espeically for those Russians) but if we did that the rest of the Europe/West/Some important institution would say this is against the law and violates human rights. And we are fascist.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

Fuck the Russians, again and again.

Just another of 1001 reasons to seriously dislike and mistrust Russians, specially their politicians.
Their shameless ruthlessness, dishonesty and pathological need to go against civil behaviour is appalling.

They are the scum on European soil and should be classified as "pest" along with rodents and cockroaches and pests should be exterminated.

Needless to say that I think all Russian real estate affairs in Finland and Estonia should be banned immediately and all property owned by Russians should be confiscated.

They have enough land in Mordor and need not come here.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

The most alarming thing here is what an investigating TV program "45 minuuttia" have uncovered in Finland: http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/kotimaa.shtml/2010/04/1110851/venalaiset-ostavat-rappiotiloja-sotilasalueiden-vieresta

MTV3 - Tuula Malin

Venäläiset ovat ostaneet heikossa kunnossa olevia kiinteistöjä ja maa-alueita sotilaskohteiden lähialueilta eri puolilla Suomea, kertoo MTV3:n 45 minuuttia -ohjelma.

Kiinteistöjä on myyty ainakin ilmavoimien koelentokeskuksen, viestikoelaitoksen, lentosotakoulun, ilmavoimien esikunnan ja tutka-aseman vaikutuspiiristä.

Kiinteistökauppoja on tehty myös rannikkopuolustuksen johtokeskuksen, merivoimien keskeisten tutka-asemien ja Suomesta Itämerelle liikennöivien laivojen pääväylän varrelta.

Hiljaiset talot, autiot maat

Naapureiden mukaan useissa kohteissa käydään harvoin, jos ollenkaan. Uudet omistajat eivät myöskään juuri solmi tuttavuuksia lähiympäristöönsä. Vakavista kosteusvaurioista kärsiviä kiinteistöjä ei ole korjattu eikä asumiskelvottomia asuintaloja saneerattu asumiskelpoisiksi.

Mereltä ja mantereelta hankitut laajat maa-alueet ovat pääosin rakentamattomia. Joillekin saarille tai mannerkiinteistöille on ilmestynyt poikkeuksellisen mittavia laiturialueita tai varastorakennuksia.

Heikossa kunnossa olevia taloja ovat hankkineet pääosin yksityishenkilöt. Maakauppoja ovat tehneet Suomeen rekisteröidyt venäläisvetoiset yhtiöt.

Yhtiöissä vastuunalaisissa tehtävissä saattaa olla myös muiden kansallisuuksien edustajia. Mukana on usein myös suomalaisia. Käytännössä yhtiöiden hallinnollisten asioiden hoito on useissa tapauksissa uskottu suomalaisille tilitoimistoille.

Yhtiöiden todellisen omistuksen selvittäminen on hankalaa ja jopa mahdotonta. Tieto omistajista on vain yrityksillä itsellään eikä sitä useinkaan anneta edes pyydettäessä.

Pääesikunta ja suojelupoliisi vaikenevat
Pääesikunta ja suojelupoliisi eivät halunneet antaa aiheesta tv-haastattelua 45 minuuttia -ohjelmalle. Suojelupoliisin mukaan maakauppoihin liittyvissä asioissa ei ole uutta tiedotettavaa.

MTV3 kertoi viime lokakuussa suojelupoliisin ryhtyneen selvittämään strategisten alueiden läheisyydessä tapahtuneita maakauppoja.

Strategisilla alueilla tarkoitetaan esimerkiksi varuskuntia, lentokenttiä ja tärkeitä tele- ja tietoliikennemastoja. Tarkkaa tietoa kauppojen lukumäärästä tai laajuudesta ei ole kenelläkään, sillä Suomen viranomaisilta puuttuu maakauppojen seurantajärjestelmä.


Mostly secret Russian buyers (some have been tracked and are members of the Russian mafia parliament) have bought run down property in Finland right next to important military and infrastructure installations.
There are no signs of renovations but in some places unusually large warehouses and piers have been built. The Russian owners, who are difficult to track due to advanced owner arrangements, generally have no contact information or adresses and are almost never seen by neighbours.




Kuorevesi
Next to Air force training and and testingbase
Kuorevedellä, ilmavoimien keskeisimmän harjoitus- ja testauskentän naapurissa myytiin viime syksynä asuinkelvoton kiinteistö pietarilaiselle, 40-vuotiaalle Natalialle. Uudelle omistajalle ei löydy minkäänlaisia yhteystietoja.
Lähellä sijaitsevat myös ilmavoimien varuskunta-alue, varikko, teknillinen koulu, koelentokeskus sekä sotilaskoneita huoltava ja valmistava Patria.
Kaksikymmentä vuotta tyhjänä olleen kiinteistön ja tuhannen neliön tontin myyntihinta oli 7 000 euroa.
Kymmenen vuotta tyhjillään ollut naapuritalo myytiin venäläisostajille jo kolme vuotta aiemmin 9 000:lla eurolla. Suuri kiinteistö on pahoin ränsistynyt ja kauppakirjan mukaan arvoton. Kauppakirjassa todetaan, että kiinteistön putkisto on rikkoutunut ja talo kärsii vakavista kosteus- sekä homevaurioista.
Kaupparekisterin mukaan kiinteistössä toimii myös pietarilaismiehen hallinnoima yritys, joka harjoittaa nettikauppaa ja ohjelmointia sekä osakkeiden ja kiinteistöjen hallintaa sekä vuokrausta.

Uurainen
Next to air force special units testing base, military stab and regiment
Keski-Suomessa Uuraisten Kuukkajärvellä, Höytiän kylässä myytiin vuosia hoitamatta ollut kiinteistö ja runsaan 8000:n neliön tontti runsas vuosi sitten Petroskoista Suomeen muuttaneelle 30-vuotiaalle autonasentajalle 84000:lla eurolla.
Mies tekee keikkatyötä autokorjaamossa ja asuu pääasiallisesti Jyväskylän kaupungin omistamassa vuokra-asunnossa. Kiinteistöstä maksettu kauppasumma on selvästi yli alueen yleisen hintatason. Kiinteistökaupan asiantuntijoiden mukaan hinnan olisi pitänyt asettua alle puoleen maksetusta.
Alueella sijaitsee testauksia suorittava ilmavoimien erikoisyksikkö. Esikunta, viestikoelaitos ja varuskunta-alue sijaitsevat naapuritaajamassa Tikkakoskella.

Pirkkala
Next to air force base
Moskovalainen liikemies on hankkinut omistukseensa kaksi taloa Satakunnan lennoston tukikohdan liepeiltä Pirkkalasta. Rinnakkain sijaitsevista kiinteistöistä toinen maksoi 390 000 euroa ja toinen 315 000 euroa.
Taloissa näkyy liikettä harvoin. Kaupparekisterin mukaan toisessa niistä harjoitetaan mittalaitteiden ja kalibrointijärjestelmien kauppaa.

Kauhava
Next to fighter pilot training centre
Sotilaslentäjien koulutuksessa käytetyn Kauhavan lentokentän läheisyydestä on juuri myyty venäläisomistukseen toimintansa lopettanut puualan yritys liiketiloineen ja tontteineen.

Saarijärvi
Next to Defence forces central communications radiotower

Puolustusvoimien keskeisen linkkimaston juurella Saarijärvellä sijaitsevan hiljaisen teräshallin omistaja, duumassa työskentelevä Denis Varlakov on hankkinut haltuunsa Saarijärveltä myös pari uutta maa-aluetta. Toiselle, louhokseen rajoittuvalle 40 hehtaarin suoalueelle hän sanoo suunnittelevansa minkkitarhaa.

Petäjävesi
Next to coastal defence stab and radarstation and with a total view of main international searoute to and from Finland.
Nelikymppinen pietarilaispariskunta osti Petäjäveden kunnasta Kintauden kylästä noin kymmenen hehtaarin tilan ja kiinteistön lähes miljoonalla eurolla kolme vuotta sitten. Kiinteistöllä käy vain paikallinen huoltomies.
Parainen
Varsinais-Suomessa Länsi-Turunmaan kaupungissa venäläisomistukseen on siirtynyt useita maa-alueita: saaria ja mannerkiinteistöjä satojen metrien rantaviivalla.
Alueella sijaitsee rannikkopuolustuksen johtokeskus ja Korppoon tutka-asema. Laivaliikenteen pääväylä kulkee ulkomaalaisomistukseen siirtyneiden saarten välissä.

Our politicians are not doing anything about this.
Our security police is not investigating.
Our head of the military is quiet.

What do we need them for?

[The Ripper]

The most alarming thing here is what an investigating TV program "45 minuuttia" have uncovered in Finland: http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/kotimaa.shtml/2010/04/1110851/venalaiset-ostavat-rappiotiloja-sotilasalueiden-vieresta


Mostly secret Russian buyers (some have been tracked and are members of the Russian mafia parliament) have bought run down property in Finland right next to important military and infrastructure installations.
There no signs of renovations, the new owners are never seen by neighbours, and in some places unusually large warehouses and piers have been built.

Our politicians are not doing anything about this.
Our police is not investigating.
Our head of the military is quiet.

And if you try to raise the issue to the surface of political debate and discussion, you are some kind of war-mongerer / russophobe stuck in the past. :rolleyes2:

[Motörhead Remember Me]

And if you try to raise the issue to the surface of political debate and discussion, you are some kind of war-mongerer / russophobe stuck in the past. :rolleyes2:

I'm proud to be just that.

Hate 'em, always had, always will.

[Groenewolf]

Our politicians are not doing anything about this.
Our security police is not investigating.
Our head of the military is quiet.

What do we need them for?

The only reasonable explanation for this could be that they are running a misinformation campaign. Because from the description one must presume that at least some of those terrains are used for intelligence gathering. And do not want to disrupt it by appearing to be not interested in it at all. But that would be presuming that most politicians are not morons or potential sellouts.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

The only reasonable explanation for this could be that they are running a misinformation campaign. Because from the description one must presume that at least some of those terrains are used for intelligence gathering. And do not want to disrupt it by appearing to be not interested in it at all. But that would be presuming that most politicians are not morons or potential sellouts.

Could be. But the serious question here is, why allow sales of real estate near sensitive installations at all? And the even more serious question, why to nationals of the only country who really posseses a securitythreat to our country?

[Groenewolf]

Could be. But the serious question here is, why allow sales of real estate near sensitive installations at all? And the even more serious question, why to nationals of the only country who really posseses a securitythreat to our country?

Read the sentence after the part you made bold ;) .

[Taezhnik]

Fuck the Russians, again and again.
How diplomatic and reasonable. :thumbs up


Just another of 1001 reasons to seriously dislike and mistrust Russians, specially their politicians.
Their shameless ruthlessness, dishonesty and pathological need to go against civil behaviour is appalling.

They are the scum on European soil and should be classified as "pest" along with rodents and cockroaches and pests should be exterminated.

Needless to say that I think all Russian real estate affairs in Finland and Estonia should be banned immediately and all property owned by Russians should be confiscated.

They have enough land in Mordor and need not come here.

I thanked you for your post because at least you are honest in how you feel. But I thought that I should post in this thread and let all Finns here know this: When Russian Monarchists (evil imperialists that seek to restore Russian Empire) and various people from different Russian nationalist schools of thought, I have never heard any mention of anyone wanting to take back Finland. People have even discussed desire to take ALASKA but not Finland. Even more shocking to some of you will be this: only mention of Finland ever was someone suggesting that return of Finnish Karelia and some other formerly Finnish places be returned to Finland even though this is not realistic with modern government. And a number of people agreed that this was good idea for long term. In fantasy world, if I was Tsar, I would seek to return certain lands to Finnish national state and remove ethnic Russians living there to some place Russian. MANY people in these areas although Russified in a sense are very aware of their Finnish origin and maintain today Finnish identity, they speak Russian and are detached from Finland in one way but in their hearts they don't want to be Russian and want to seperate from Russia. I have observed such people in high number on Russian internet. I believe that if these people resist with the intensity that I have seen and reject Russia culturally and want to be Finnish that Russia has no moral right to trap these people in Russia and continue Russification on them. The Winter War was not the idea of true Russians but a Soviet idea, I don't support anything that came from that war. Perhaps this is all shocking for you but it is still reality. You may hate us, but we don't all hate you.

[Eldritch]

In fantasy world, if I was Tsar, I would seek to return certain lands to Finnish national state and remove ethnic Russians living there to some place Russian. MANY people in these areas although Russified in a sense are very aware of their Finnish origin and maintain today Finnish identity, they speak Russian and are detached from Finland in one way but in their hearts they don't want to be Russian and want to seperate from Russia.

Hmm, I have a feeling I'm misunderstanding something: are you referring to people related to Finns in areas that always have been Russian, or in formerly Finnish Karelia? Because the latter was emptied of people before it was handed over and therefore the current inhabitants cannot have any connections to the area's Finnish past.

Either way, thank you for your courteous post. I in turn want to make it absolutely clear that I do not hate Russia or Russians, either. In fact there are many aspects of your country that are well worthy of respect and interest, even admiration. I'm aware of our troubled shared past, but I refuse to let that blind me.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

How diplomatic and reasonable. :thumbs up



I knew that a Russian would understand this as diplomacy. After all, real diplomacy is largely wasted on liars and thiefs.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

I thanked you for your post because at least you are honest in how you feel. But I thought that I should post in this thread and let all Finns here know this: When Russian Monarchists (evil imperialists that seek to restore Russian Empire) and various people from different Russian nationalist schools of thought, I have never heard any mention of anyone wanting to take back Finland. People have even discussed desire to take ALASKA but not Finland. Even more shocking to some of you will be this: only mention of Finland ever was someone suggesting that return of Finnish Karelia and some other formerly Finnish places be returned to Finland even though this is not realistic with modern government. And a number of people agreed that this was good idea for long term. In fantasy world, if I was Tsar, I would seek to return certain lands to Finnish national state and remove ethnic Russians living there to some place Russian. MANY people in these areas although Russified in a sense are very aware of their Finnish origin and maintain today Finnish identity, they speak Russian and are detached from Finland in one way but in their hearts they don't want to be Russian and want to seperate from Russia. I have observed such people in high number on Russian internet. I believe that if these people resist with the intensity that I have seen and reject Russia culturally and want to be Finnish that Russia has no moral right to trap these people in Russia and continue Russification on them. The Winter War was not the idea of true Russians but a Soviet idea, I don't support anything that came from that war. Perhaps this is all shocking for you but it is still reality. You may hate us, but we don't all hate you.[/FONT]

These indeed are peculiar sentences as they are quite different from 90% of Russian internet opinions. It's your politics, chauvinism and mentality, not you as a people (as in orthodox, eat borstj and speak a slavic language), that I hate.