Interesting map about Eastern European genetics (also Central European)

[Vlatko Vukovic]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7e/eb/8f/7eeb8fb24d99e9e3443b739a52c5a501.png

How precisely is this map? Discuss!

[Lavrentis]

Did you make this map?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Did you make this map?

Nope. I found it.

[Lavrentis]

Nope. I found it.

Looks accurate tbh

[Vlatko Vukovic]

bump

[Ülev]

no man, I2a was always different

https://s16.postimg.org/62qezn80l/image.png

[Vlatko Vukovic]

no man, I2a was always different

Different in which sense?? You are again more close to Eastern Slavs, than to Weterners xD

U see, how evil are R1b?? They invade Lusatians and they must go East and mixed with "Balto-Slavic" ancestors......

[Ülev]

https://s14.postimg.org/hbpjz1udt/image.jpg
from: https://forum.klix.ba/prema-genetici-neki-bosnjaci-imaju-vise-hrvatskih-markera-nego-neki-hrvati-iz-hrvatske-t144950s75.html

[Vlatko Vukovic]

https://s14.postimg.org/hbpjz1udt/image.jpg
from: https://forum.klix.ba/prema-genetici-neki-bosnjaci-imaju-vise-hrvatskih-markera-nego-neki-hrvati-iz-hrvatske-t144950s75.html

Come with Slavs xD

[Ülev]

I is from IJ y-dna branch, so closer to J than to R1etelites

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I is from IJ y-dna branch, so closer to J than to R1etelites

But again, historically closer to R1ethelians than to Westerners R1b :biggrin:

[Ülev]

But again, historically closer to R1ethelians than to Westerners R1b :biggrin:

R1a & B came from cold regions, and destroyed I2a North Black Sea shore land, bad R1ethelites, bad

[Ülev]

R1a & B came from cold regions, and destroyed I2a North Black Sea shore land, bad R1ethelites, bad

or more likely Z282 pushed you to Balkan region because R1a M458 already lived in cold Baltic Sea shore

[Ülev]

While early estimates suggested that the most recent common ancestor of haplogroup IJ could have lived 30,500 years ago, the latest estimates suggest that he lived 42,400–46,400 years before present.[1][3]

Both of the primary branches of haplogroup IJ – I-M170 and J-M304 – are found among modern populations of the Caucasus, Anatolia, and Southwest Asia. This tends to suggest that Haplogroup IJ branched from IJK in West Asia and/or the Middle East.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_IJ


In addition, living examples of the precursor Haplogroup IJ* have been found only in Iran, among the Mazandarani and ethnic Persians from Fars.[3] This may indicate that IJ originated in South West Asia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M170

so again, more likely that I2a lived closer to Persia/Iran = North Black Sea shore back in the time and R1a z-282 (with or without M-458) pushed us (I2a) to Balkans

[Vlatko Vukovic]

or more likely Z282 pushed you to Balkan region because R1a M458 already lived in cold Baltic Sea shore

We came together with Z282 in historical well-known Slavic invade of Balkans :D :D They didn't "pushed" us.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_IJ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M170

so again, more likely that I2a lived closer to Persia/Iran = North Black Sea shore back in the time and R1a z-282 (with or without M-458) pushed us (I2a) to Balkans

Yeah... just today Persians don't have I2a at all :D :D

[Hanuman]

Different in which sense?? You are again more close to Eastern Slavs, than to Weterners xD

U see, how evil are R1b?? They invade Lusatians and they must go East and mixed with "Balto-Slavic" ancestors......

R1a and R1b are brothers.

[Lucia]

Y-dna again?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

R1a and R1b are brothers.

They were, once..

Now i don't think so. :)

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Y-dna again?

Ou je

[Ülev]

Yeah... just today Persians don't have I2a at all :D :D

Basic I originated in Persia, but I2 and I1 lived from Sochi to Odessa once, and now something what not everyone will like - Khazar Empire = I2a territorial range

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Chasaren.jpg

[Hanuman]

They were, once..

Now i don't think so. :)

Once brothers always brothers. :)
I'm kidding, they were separated 18 000 years, and today R1a is closer to I2a and R1b is closer to I1.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Basic I originated in Persia, but I2 and I1 lived from Sochi to Odessa once, and now something what not everyone will like - Khazar Empire = I2a territorial range

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Chasaren.jpg

Yes, i know. But i am speaking about modern Persians. Iranians anyways.

Persians = / = I

[Ülev]

R1a and R1b are brothers.

more like Vanir ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanir
and Æsir ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%86sir

and the forever (endless) war between them

or like Cain & Abel ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain_and_Abel

[Hanuman]

more like Vanir ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanir
and Æsir ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%86sir

and the forever war between them

or like Cain & Abel ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain_and_Abel

R1b is Cain and R1a is Abel, right?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Once brothers always brothers. :)
I'm kidding, they were separated 18 000 years, and today R1a is closer to I2a and R1b is closer to I1.

Definitly.

[Ülev]

R1b is Cain and R1a is Abel, right?

no idea, I do not have "Steppe Warriors" ancestry, lol

[Hanuman]

no idea, I do not have "Steppe Warriors" ancestry, lol

All people across Euroasia have some steppe ancestors, some more and some less.

[Ülev]

http://xn--c1acc6aafa1c.xn--p1ai/wp-content/uploads/2.20-500x500.jpg
source: http://генофонд.рф/?page_id=5629

[Slavic Italian]

Basic I originated in Persia, but I2 and I1 lived from Sochi to Odessa once, and now something what not everyone will like - Khazar Empire = I2a territorial range

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Chasaren.jpg

Some think the modern Jews are Khazars.

[Rethel]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7e/eb/8f/7eeb8fb24d99e9e3443b739a52c5a501.png

So, who on the earth, are Lusatians? Loose people? :laugh:

Or Independent IE branch? Or just the only survived Cordeds? ;)

[Rethel]

But again, historically closer to R1ethelians than to Westerners R1b :biggrin:

How?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

So, who on the earth, are Lusatians? Loose people? :laugh:

Or Independent IE branch? Or just the only survived Cordeds? ;)

Well, none map can be full accurate. Mostly probably that people of Lusatian culture were also a carriers of some other haplogroups, but that R1a-M458 was dominant,.. yes.

[Rethel]

R1a and R1b are brothers.

Yes, and no, becasue there is only R* folk.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

How?

I mean about history. I2 adopted more R1a characteristics than R1b (that's normal, they were more closer to R1a)

[Rethel]

Well, none map can be full accurate. Mostly probably that people of Lusatian culture were also a carriers of some other haplogroups, but that R1a-M458 was dominant,.. yes.

I meant, were germanic, celtic, slavic, iranic, baltic or independent IE speakers?

[Rethel]

I mean about history. I2 adopted more R1a characteristics than R1b (that's normal, they were more closer to R1a)

What they adapted?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I meant, were germanic, celtic, slavic, iranic, baltic or independent IE speakers?

We cannot know it for sure. But only what we can know is that they mixed with R1a-Z280 and formed the Zarubintsy culture (as is written in the map), in short, Proto-Slavic.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

What they adapted?

Choose all countries of Ex-Yu, for example. Here we have R1a and I2. R1b is 6%, literally, totally alien haplogroup. And i guess also that there are more people of I2 origin in Poland than in Germany. Correct me if i am wrong.

That was my point.

[Rethel]

Choose all countries of Ex-Yu, for example. Here we have R1a and I2. R1b is 6%, literally, totally alien haplogroup. And i guess also that there are more people of I2 origin in Poland than in Germany. Correct me if i am wrong.

That was my point.

1. But Illyrians probably were more R1b.
2. Percentages of hg were different in the past. I suspect, that the
deeper past you go, the more R1b was in the east, i.e. also among Slavs.
3. The differentiation on 1a and 1b is partially superficial, as they are one people from one pleme,
and there always was 1a on the West and 1b on the East. Actually 95% of the clades of 1b are
on the East. On the West is only one clade, and couple only subclades of it.
4. Poland 7.5%, German 6%. Is it really so relevant? And what has it to do with the topic anyway? :)
5. What is the point, is that 7/25 of Yugols are IEs and the rest is not and Yugols as a whole are IE.
Clade doesn't matter, as cultural influence was from the West and Greece - always just an indoeuropean...

[Vlatko Vukovic]

1. But Illyrians probably were more R1b.
2. Percentages of hg were different in the past. I suspect, that the
deeper past you go, the more R1b was in the east, i.e. also among Slavs.
3. The differentiation on 1a and 1b is partially superficial, as they are opne peole from one pleme,
and there always was 1a on the West and 1b on the East. Actually 95% of the clades of 1b are
on the East. On the West is only one clade, and couple only subclades of it.
4. Poland 7.5%, German 6%. Is it really so relevant? And hwat has it to do with the topic anyway? :)
5. What is the point, is that 7/25 of Yugols are IEs and the rest is not and Yugols as a whole are IE.
Clade doesn't matter, as cultural influence was from the West and Greece - always just an indoeuropean...

Not the 7.5 actually IE, 7.5 could be just R1b. R1a is relatively common here.

[Rethel]

Not the 7.5 actually IE, 7.5 could be just R1b. R1a is relatively common here.

What? I dont understand what you mean.
I was talking about I2, as you mentioned it.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

What? I dont understand what you mean.
I was talking about I2, as you mentioned it.

Nevermind. Hard to explain now, on English. :D

[Vlatko Vukovic]

What? I dont understand what you mean.
I was talking about I2, as you mentioned it.

double

[Vožd]

Montenegro YDNA map:

https://dnk.poreklo.rs/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Crna_Gora_-_Genetsko_poreklo_stanovnistva_1914_1.png

[Pahli]

Slav removal in progress

http://allart.biz/up/photos/album/V/Vasnetsov%20Viktor/vasnetsov_fight_of_scythians_and_slavs.jpg

[Hanuman]

Illyrians probably were mostly R1b, and Thracians R1a.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Slav removal in progress

http://allart.biz/up/photos/album/V/Vasnetsov%20Viktor/vasnetsov_fight_of_scythians_and_slavs.jpg

lol, dude, you can't remove Slavs :P

[Hanuman]

Slav removal in progress

http://allart.biz/up/photos/album/V/Vasnetsov%20Viktor/vasnetsov_fight_of_scythians_and_slavs.jpg

Which one is the Slav? Guy on the black horse or guy with a spear?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Which one is the Slav? Guy on the black horse or guy with a spear?

I think that black is Scythian.

[Rethel]

Montenegro YDNA map:
WOW!


Btw, who is this Wukićewić?
(And what hg :laugh:)

[Tschaikisten]

WOW!


Btw, who is this Wukićewić?

Member of redaction of Serbian DNA Project specialised for Montenegrin clan history and E1b-V13.

[Rethel]

Member of redaction of Serbian DNA Project specialised for Montenegrin clan history and E1b-V13.

I am envy :pout:

[Hanuman]

Montenegro YDNA map:

https://dnk.poreklo.rs/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Crna_Gora_-_Genetsko_poreklo_stanovnistva_1914_1.png

Very much haplogroups (many of them are exotic for Europe) on quite small territory! LOL

[cosmoo]

Very much haplogroups (many of them are exotic for Europe) on quite small territory! LOL

None of them are "exotic for Europe". Hold your tongue unless you have something of value to say.

[Hanuman]

None of them are "exotic for Europe". Hold your tongue unless you have something of value to say.

Sorry mate but Q and L are very rare in Europe, and why not to say alien for Europe. N exist in northwestern Europe, but it is mongoloid haplogrop originally.
N which exist in Montenegro have nothing to do with N1c which exist in Russia, Finland and Baltic states, Montenegrin N is alien for Europe.

[cosmoo]

Sorry mate but Q and L are very rare in Europe, and why not to say alien for Europe. N exist in northwestern Europe, but it is mongoloid haplogrop originally.
N which exist in Montenegro have nothing to do with N1c which exist in Russia, Finland and Baltic states, Montenegrin N is alien for Europe.

Q and L (latter could be of Neolithic farmer origin) are marked on few tiny places on the map (due to tribal division), but are very rare as a whole, not any more common than A in Scandinavia and Finland (yes, there are such men up there on FTDNA, and not of immigrant ancestry, but native since at least 16th century).

As for our N- it is actually more connected to Europe than N1c. N2a P189.2 was, except in Montenegro and surrounding areas (originating in our clan Piva), so far found only in a few Slovakian and Western European families. Meanwhile, in case of Finnic N1c-L1026, its parental clades (M178>L708>P298) are found mostly in Siberia.

[Hanuman]

Q and L (latter could be of Neolithic farmer origin) are marked on few places on map (due to tribal division), but are very rare as a whole, not any more common than A in Scandinavia and Finland (yes, there are such men up there on FTDNA, and not of immigrant ancestry, but native since at least 16th century).

As for our N- it is actually more connected to Europe than N1c. N2a P189.2 was, except in Montenegro and surrounding areas (originating in our clan Piva), so far found in few Slovakian and Western European families. However, in case of Finnic N1c-L1026, its parental clades (M178>L708>P298) are found mostly in Siberia.

How N2a P189.2 came to Montenegro? Cumans, Avars, Turks, proto Magyars...?

Vast majority of holders of Q haplogroup are mongoloids, Q is the most common in Siberia and among native American
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Haplogroup_Q_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG

L haplogroup is the most common in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and in Europe almost does not exist
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WWOZ4XTUiPk/maxresdefault.jpg

[cosmoo]

How N2a P189.2 came to Montenegro? Cumans, Avars, Turks, proto Magyars...?

Vast majority of holders of Q haplogroup are mongoloids, Q is the most common in Siberia and among native American
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Haplogroup_Q_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG

L haplogroup is the most common in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and in Europe almost does not exist
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WWOZ4XTUiPk/maxresdefault.jpg

No one knows how it came here, but unlike N1c it is wholly confined to Europe in present.

As for Q and L, none of them amount to even one percent.