PCA vs. Map of Polish regions

[Peterski]

I collected Polish and neighbouring regional samples that I found (samples assigned to regions mostly based on genealogical info) and added some academic samples (Mazovia2 = seven samples from Warsaw from Behar 2013 study). I created a PCA. Then I superimposed this PCA with regional Polish and neighbouring (including East German) averages on a map.

Map1: https://i.imgur.com/Xx4lrBX.png

https://i.imgur.com/Xx4lrBX.png

And after adding Lithuanian average to the PCA:

Map2: https://i.imgur.com/Vwk3mLW.png

https://i.imgur.com/Vwk3mLW.png

[Peterski]

Red Ruthenia are Poles from Lubelskie, and Polish Mountains are Poles from Podkarpacie.

These are the regions I suggested to Living DNA:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?225448-Polish-DNA-Project&p=4737984&viewfull=1#post4737984

Compare to my suggested division into regions:

https://i.imgur.com/M68llFO.png

[Peterski]

^^^
Vinnytsia, Poltava, Kharkiv, Chernigov, Boryslav and Zboriv are of course ethnic Ukrainians.

Polesye, Grodno, Vitebsk and Mogilev are Belarusians. Zakarpattia are Carpathian Rusyns.

[Peterski]

Sample sizes for Polish and German averages:

Neumark & Posen-Westpreussen - 17
Sachsen - 14 (including 8 from Leipzig)
Pommern and Vorpommern - 8
Sachsen-Anhalt - 2
Mecklenburg - 7
Brandenburg - 15

Greater Poland - 24 (including 15 from Poznan)
Upper Silesia - 18
Lusatian Sorbs - 8
Pomerelia (among them Kashubians) - 12
Podlachia (Podlasie) - 26
Podkarpacie (eastern Polish Mountains) - 15

Sudovia (Suwałki Region) - 3

Mazovia1 - 31 Mazovians from various areas
Mazovia2 - 7 Warsaw samples from Behar 2013

SE-Kresy (Poles from Western Ukraine) - 10
Red Ruthenia, or Lubelskie - 8 (5 from Lublin)
Northern Poland (Kujawsko-Pomorskie) - 11
NE-Kresy (Poles from Vilno-Grodno Regions) - 2

Czechs - 33 samples

I forgot to add Estonian Poles from Kushniarevich 2015.

[Rethel]

Red Ruthenia are Poles from Lubelskie, and Polish Mountains are Poles from Podkarpacie.

:picard2:

[Rethel]

https://i.imgur.com/M68llFO.png

I see, I am in Underlechitia :)

[Peterski]

Check also:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?229817-West-Slavs-vs-East-Germans-genetic-comparison

https://i.imgur.com/AQH9OsC.png

[Bobby Martnen]

Red Ruthenia are Poles from Lubelskie, and Polish Mountains are Poles from Podkarpacie.

These are the regions I suggested to Living DNA:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?225448-Polish-DNA-Project&p=4737984&viewfull=1#post4737984

Compare to my suggested division into regions:

https://i.imgur.com/M68llFO.png

Any division of Poland or Germany into genetic regions should use 1933 borders, which map with historical and natural population movements, not modern borders, which are the product of Soviet ethnic cleansing, and don't really map to genetics. (i.e. Szczecin Poles plot East of Cracow Poles, because they are mostly from the Kresy)

[Rethel]

(i.e. Szczecin Poles plot East of Cracow Poles, because they are mostly from the Kresy)

And what? These people have no genetics, so cannot be tasted? :laugh:

[Peterski]

Any division of Poland or Germany into genetic regions should use 1933 borders, which map with historical and natural population movements, not modern borders, which are the product of Soviet ethnic cleansing, and don't really map to genetics. (i.e. Szczecin Poles plot East of Cracow Poles, because they are mostly from the Kresy)

That division is based on historical regions more or les.

Greater Poland is based on 1772 borders for example.

People are assigned to regions based on birthplaces of their grandparents and great-grandparents, not present-day place of residence.

I wonder where are Eastern Poles (with ancestors born to the east of present-day Poland) going to be added.

[Bobby Martnen]

And what? These people have no genetics, so cannot be tasted? :laugh:

No, if all of their grandparents were born in one region, they should be a sample for that region. Someone born in Wroclaw to 4 grandparents from Vilna should be used as a sample of a Vilna Pole, not a Silesian Pole, just like someone born in Munich to 4 East Prussian grandparents should be used as a sample for East Prussia, not Bavaria

[Rethel]

No, if all of their grandparents were born in one region, they should be a sample for that region. Someone born in Wroclaw to 4 grandparents from Vilna should be used as a sample of a Vilna Pole,

For what?
Lithuanian Poles still exist in Lithuania, there is
no need to looking for some uniqates in Silesia.


not a Silesian Pole

Modern Silesian Pole.
And still are those original in Upper Silesia.

[Rethel]

...

Btw, in previous centuries migrations also happened, constanly.
there is no pure populations. In XV-XIX centuries whole hordes
of Scots, Spaniards, Englishmen, Swedes, Dutch, and whatever
have you, were migrating through whole country. Germans since
800 years constantly until XXth century. There is really no much
sense in particular regonal au, as all of us is a great mix of whole
Europe, and there is no pure population as you want to be.