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Foxy
01-15-2011, 10:38 AM
Cosmogony (according to Esiodo's "Cosmogonia")
At the beginning it bore the Caos, then the Earth, basement for the immortals that live on the Olympus. From Caos bore Erebo, the Darkness, and Nykte, the Night, and these generated Etere, the Light, and Emeros, the Day. Gea, the Earth, generated Uranoo, the Sky with the stars, the mountains and Ponto (a region in Asia Minor, today in Turkey). Then Gea united with the Ocean and generated the Titans, the Ciclops and the Giants.

Titanomachia, the War against the Titans
Uranoo was not pleased of his sons, the Titans. In the effort to kill them all, their mother, Gea, was able to save Kronos, the time, and helped him to castrate Uranoo. From his organ, thrown in the Ocean, was generated Aphrodites, and from his blood the Erinnis, the Nymphes and the Giants.
Evirated the father, Kronos took the power and he freed his sieblings. Together with his sister Rea he generated Demetra, Estia, Era, Ade and Poseidon (in the Roman version their names are Cerere, Vesta, Junonis, Pluton and Neptune).
Yet Kronos started to be afraid that one of his sons could make to him what he made to his father, therefore he ate all his kids just after their birth. Rea could not stand this situation, so she saved the last of her sons, Zeus, hiddening him on Creta, to the nymphe Amaltea that in form of goat gave milk to the baby (from this mythe the tradition, in Italy and Greece, of the Cornu Copiae, the horn of the Fortune, symbol of Amaltea and lucky amulet).

http://www.dicristofalo.com/admin/foto/203/1009-7.jpg

When Zeus was adult he went to his father and fought a competition of strenght and wisdom and he prevailed on Kronos, forcing him to vomit all Zeus' sieblings. Zeus became the leader of the Gods, who now desired to punish Kronos for his empiety: they set up an army of Gods, while Kronos made an alliance with his sieblings, the Titans.
After the Titanomachia the old gods, the Titans, were defeated and the new Gods, with the help of the Ciclops, arose to new leaders of the world.
The Gods imprisoned the Titans in the depth of the Earth, in a so deep hole that a rock, falling, needed 9 days to took the ground. This place is called Tartaro. The new Gods could not bring to the world the new values, bringing the Light on it.

Atlante

A Titan had had a big role during the battle in helping Kronos. He was Atlante and for him the Gods established an harsh torment: he has to sustain the weight of the Sky and of the Earth. The place of his exile was the far West.
On the other hand, he was the first to know the secrets of the Seas and of the Sky: he knew the depths of the Sea and was the first to know that the form of the universe was spheric. His daughters were the Pleiades and the Esperides.

Gigantomachia - the War against the Giants

When Kronos castrated Uranoo, from his blood were generated the Giants. After the defeat of the old gods, the Titans, their mother Gea persuaded the Giants to rebel and to attack the Gods. They started therefore to move the mountains, the rocks, the rivers, the volcans, the seas. The gods soon united next to Zeus to fight against the Giants, but it seemed that every effort of the Gods was vain. The gods followed then a provecy and asked the help of a mortal, Hercules. The Giants started to fall one by one until all the Giants were killed. Now the Gods were the only lords of the Earth.

The Creation of the Man (according to Esiodo's Cosmogonia)

The first men were generated when Kronos was still the lord of the world. The life of these first men was peaceful and carefree and they were eternally young. This age is called Golden Age.
The second age was the Silver Age: this is the epoque of the matriarcal societies and these men were far from the gods and unhappy.
These age was destroyed by Zeus (maybe this mythe tells the destruction of the Minoic society by the Indo-European invasors, who brought in Greece the Indo-European Gods, whose leader was indeed Zeus).
The third age was the Age of the Bronze. These men were heroic and had a polite soul. These men partecipated to the expedition of the Argonautes and in the War against Troy and they have been accepted, after the Death, in the Elysium where they will live forever with the protection and the love of the Gods.
The current age is the Age of Iron, the age of hard and unfair men, who live without knowing the Happiness.

The first woman, Pandora

Prometeo was the son of a giant: he loved men and donated to them the fire and the wisdom, stealing the first from Efesto and the second from Atena. Zeus was not amused nor with Prometeo nor with the men who had accepted them. So he jailed Prometeo in the far East, on the opposite side from Atlante, on the Mount Caucasus and sentenced him to hard torments.
To punish the men he created the first woman, Pandora. He made her extremely beautiful and asked the Gods to give her all their gifts, that's why she is called "Pandora" (Pan= all, Dora=gifts). Ermes donated her false words, Aphrodites the grace and the beauty, Carites gave her the Persuasion, Atena the ability to weave; then they sent her to Epimeteo.
This man remained astonished by her beauty and fell in love of her. She opened vase containing the misfortunes of the world and since that moment men started to feel the pain, knew the deseases and the Death, and were condemnted to the wretchedness.
Pandora had only the time to close the vase before the last thing in it could go out: it was the Hope.

The Deluge of Deukalion

Men, so punished by gods, had became so wicked that Zeus decide to eliminate the progeny by a deluge. Prometeo adviced his son Deukalion and his wife Pirra, who together built an ark. After the deluge, their ark landed on Mount Athos or Mount Etna, and as they were the only survivors started to make sacrifices to honour Zeus, praying him to recreate the men again. Zeus ordered them to pick up pebbles and to throw them behind their shoulders without watching them. They did, and all the pebbles thrown by Deukalion became men and all those thrown by Pirra became women. They also had some children. One of this, Elleno, was the progenitor of the Greeks.

Foxy
01-15-2011, 12:54 PM
The Gods are the forces that constitute the Nature; their role is not the creation of the world, rather the preservation of its order and its armony. Their bodies are energetic fields. Ancient Greeks thought that gods could appear in human bodies to men, and personificated everyone of them giving them specific attributes, but a less popular religion consider them as forces and powers of the nature.
Twelve gods, 6 males and 6 females, are the main divinities. Their names are:
Zeus, Poseidon, Apollo, Ermes, Ares and Efesto. In the Roman version their names are Juppiter, Neptune, Apollus, Mercury, Mars and Vulcanus. The names of the goddes are: Era, Atena, Artemide, Demetra, Aphrodites and Estia. In the Roman version their names become: Junonis, Minerva, Diana, Cerere, Venus and Vesta.
The main centres of their cult are: the Altar of the Twelve Gods in the Agorà of Athens and the Pantheon in Rome.

Zeus-Juppiter
After the Wars against the Titans and the Giants he has been elected the Chief of the Gods, but his power isn't without limits. He must coordinate the other gods and assure the order in the human sphere and in the divine sphere. The kings of the Earth honour them brining the root of his name in their epithets: diogenesis and diotrefeis. He is the big Indo-European father, Dyaus Pitar. This name evolved later in Zeus with Greeks, Djuppiter and later Juppiter with Romans and Tyr by the Nordic peoples. Also Theos and Dio, the way in which Greeks and Italians call God, has this root.
Zeus coordinates the atmospherical phenomena. He protects the agriculture and the house, on his name Greeks and Romans make the oaths, like the Nordic people use to oath on Tyr, becouse Tyr and Zeus preside at the justice. He also helps who needs protection, in particular the foreigners. That's why the Greeks and the Romans welcome the guests: to drive them back means to offend Zeus.
Even Zeus, however, is subordinate to Destiny: his destiny is to donate to Humany the offsprings of his many loves.

Era-Junonis
Era means The Lady, she is the wife of Zeus and the gods respect her like a queen. When she disputes with Zeus, and she does often, the whole firmament is shaken. She protects the couples, she gives them the fertily and protects the weddings.
In Rome Junonis assumes also other attributes: she is the patron of the State and of the animals; in particular the peacock was sacred to her.

Athena-Minerva
Athena the only Goddess to be born from the Head of Zeus; she is the force of the wisdom and of the ability. She is a warrior-female goddess as she bore screaming war cries and wearing weapons. She was the only one after Zeus who could use lighning of her father. Ares is the god of the war, of the violence and of the battle without rules, while Athena the patron of the warlike intelligence. She taught to men how to use the technic and the rules of the war, she inspired the arraies in the generals. She protects the heros she choices to support. She taught to men to domesticate the horses. She also inspires the architects, the sculptors; she taught to men to ship, to forge the metals and to plow up the fields. In short, she is the intelligence. The main place of the cult is the Parthenon in Athens, the city is dedicated to her. Romans attribute to her also the invention of the Medicine. In Rome her cult was celebrate on June 13th on the Capitol.

Poseidon-Neptune

Brother of Zeus and Ade, these three gods have divided in three parts the power on the world. Poseidon has the sovereignty on the Sea. His cult is therefore practised nearby the sea, especially in promontories. He causes the earthquakes, creates mountains, isles, valleys. He also invited the 5 couples of twins he had with Clito to populate Atlantide.

Apollo

The first decision of Apollo, once become immortal, was to give to men an oracle so that they could know the will of his father Zeus. Indeed he is the god of the divination, of the light and of the sun. From his figure men today associate the knowledge with the light. After the solstice of summer he leaves for 6 months the sovereignty of the oracle to Dionision/Baccus, so men celebrate on December her return to the world. He also stops the epidemies and spread the health among the men, he purificates the men once re-established the moral order. His son is Asclepio, god of the medicine. On his name men oath to offer his medical art only to save lives. Apollo donates the therapy also to the nature, he assists the nature against the bugs and the deseases but also against drought. He protects the health of the animals too, indeed he protects the sheephards. For a period he was sheephard himself and during this period he learnt to art of the music, then he became god of the music and his magic sounds accompany the holy dances.
The main centre of his cult is at the Oracle of Delphi. In Rome his profecies were collected in a serial of books, called "Libri Sibillini", conserved in the Temple of Apollo, on the Palatine Hill.

Artemide-Diana

Twin of Apollo, she is connected with the light of the moon. She was the goddess of the huntress and patron of young women and savage animals. In the Roman version the name of Diana reminds the indo-european root for "day". She was the goddess of the light of the woods. Her cult is connected with the woods. For effect of the Greek syncretism she later became goddess of the moon. In Middle Age she was associated with the witchcraft.
She also helps young people to go out of the adolescence and become adult.

Demetra-Cerere (Kerres)

Demetra means DEA MATER, indeed she is the Mother Goddess. Her cult is related with the germination of fields and is one of the oldest. She is also responsible of the alternation of the seasons. Her Italic name, Kerres, has the indo-european root -KER (growth).

Hermes-Mercury

For ancient Greeks he was the god of the wind and of all the phenomena in relation with the air, including the travel. He is patron of the travellers and of the trades. If Mercury likes you he will donate you the ability to commerce and, therefore, rich gains. He gives also strenght and grace to athletes, but his biggest role is to be the Messanger (ANGELOS). He can arrive also in the Afterworld, indeed he leads the souls (PSYCHE) of Deads to Ade.Ghoasts and spirits are the way by which Hermes brings messages from Deads to living people. He is patron of lawyers and of oratores, of philosophers and of literates, becouse he's patron of the word. He gave to Pandora the faculty to use the words also to deceive and lie, for this reason this force is thought to protect also the stealers.

Aphrodites-Venus

Goddess of Beauty and of Love. She is the force of the reproduction, she spreads this force also in the nature and in the animals. She rapresents also the erotic and sexual attraction. Eteres (a sort of geisha of ancient Rome and Greece) honoured her in front of the Sanctuary of Acrocorinto.

Ares-Mars

Force of the violence, of the battles and of the war. No Greek city accepted him as patron becouse he liked to destroy and to disturb the peace. On the contrary his cult was largely practised by the Italics: Romans sacred to him a whole legion, called "Legio Sannita". Romans and the Italics celebrate him as the father of the Italic peoples. To him Romans sacred the third month of the year, the month of the spring. Mars is indeed associated with the strenght of the youth. Romans sacred to him the second day of the week, now called in Italian Martedì (Marte's Day), Marzio/a, Marco, Marcello/a are the names that children sacred to Mars have.

Efesto-Vulcano

God of Fire and of the vulcans. For these attributes the area around Mount Etna is holy to him. He lives in the depth of the earth and makes the weapons of the gods, in particular the lightnings for Zeus. He is patron of metallurgy. In Attica it was tought that artisans learnt how to realize beautiful works by Athena and Efesto.

Estia-Vesta

Sister of Zeus and oldest of the new Gods is the force of the family. She protects the house. A fire was turned on for her by warriors before going to the war and by colons, before leaving Greece, as she rapresented also the unity of the Greeks.

Cato
01-15-2011, 01:01 PM
The current age is the Age of Iron, the age of hard and unfair men, who live without knowing the Happiness.

Brothers will battle to bloody end,
and sisters' sons their sib betray;
woe's in the world, much wantonness.
Axe-age, sword-age; sunderered are shields.
Wind-age, wolf-age; ere the world crumbles.
The spear of no man shall spare another.

From the Vosulpa, prophecy of the seeress, where Odin learns of the doom of the world.

Foxy
01-15-2011, 01:20 PM
The current age is the Age of Iron, the age of hard and unfair men, who live without knowing the Happiness.

Brothers will battle to bloody end,
and sisters' sons their sib betray;
woe's in the world, much wantonness.
Axe-age, sword-age; sunderered are shields.
Wind-age, wolf-age; ere the world crumbles.
The spear of no man shall spare another.

From the Vosulpa, prophecy of the seeress, where Odin learns of the doom of the world.

I adore the Voluspà, and I have to admit that similarities between Greek-Roman religion and the Nordic religion are astonishing. Just think to the Norne and the Parche... Three women and all weave the destiny.
Unlucky Christianism destroyed many documents about the Greek paganism and often portayed it in a negative prospective.
Snorri Sturluson made a great gift to us by preserving the old mythology.
Anyway if the Voluspà had been written by Indo-Europeans for Indo-Europeans I believe to it : it means that our extinction is coming.

Bræðr munu berjask
ok at bönum verðask,
munu systrungar
sifjum spilla,
hart 's í heimi,
hórdómr mikill,
skeggöld, skalmöld,
skildir klofnir,
vindöld, vargöld,
áðr veröld steypisk
mun engi maðr
öðrum þyrma.

The cousins will destroy their kinship, big will be the adultery.

It seems to me that it speaks about an exact people... who knows which...:mad:

Foxy
01-15-2011, 01:27 PM
Hrymr ekr austan,
hefsk lind fyrir,
snýsk Jörmungandr
í jötunmóði;
ormr knýr unnir,
en ari hlakkar,
slítr nái niðfölr;
Naglfar losnar.

51 Kjöll ferr austan,
koma munu Múspells
um lög lyðir,
en Loki styrir;
fara fífls megir
með freka allir,
þeim er bróðir
Býleipz í för

I would not be paranoic but the seer knew also from where the enemies will come: she says it clearly. From East the snake is coming on the waves, the Eagle squeaks.

Surtr ferr sunnan

Cato
01-15-2011, 01:40 PM
There are parallels between the southern and northern cosmologies, but the northern cosmology has a harshness that the Mediterranean religions of ancient times largely lack. I think it's this ferocity that makes the Voluspa so haunting, for even the chief of the gods himself is doomed to die under the fangs of the great wolf.

Liffrea
01-15-2011, 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by Pallamedes
There are parallels between the southern and northern cosmologies, but the northern cosmology has a harshness that the Mediterranean religions of ancient times largely lack. I think it's this ferocity that makes the Voluspa so haunting, for even the chief of the gods himself is doomed to die under the fangs of the great wolf.

We may with some truth contrast the “inhumanness” of the Greek gods, however anthropomorphic, with the “humanness” of the Northern, however titanic……..the ruling gods (Greek) are not besieged, not in ever-present peril or under future doom……..the gods (Greek) are not the allies of men in their war against these or other monsters. The interest of the gods is in this or that man as part of their individual schemes, not as a great strategy that includes all good men, as the infantry of battle. In Norse, at any rate, the gods are within Time, doomed with their allies to death. Their battle is with the monsters and the outer darkness. They gather heroes for the last defence……….This may make the southern gods more godlike-more lofty, dread, and inscrutable. They are timeless and do not fear death. Such a mythology may hold a promise of a profounder thought. In any case it was the virtue of the southern mythology that it could not stop where it was. It must go forward to philosophy or relapse into anarchy.
J. R. R. Tolkien

This is interesting, but I suspect one could state that the Gods of Homer were closer to the Norse than they were to the later Classical and Hellenistic deities (influenced as they were by Near Eastern thought and mysticism). Though Greek and Germanic heroism share differences, I am sure. No Plato would have arisen in the north, such metaphysical speculation would have been pointless to the northman.

Myths, of course, are products of their environment. Whilst Germanic and Greek myth share certain similarities (due to being at root Indo-European) they are also very different. It would be interesting to speculate over which deities could transcend one to the other.

Germanic myth was born in the dark forests of northern Europe, the ice cold wastes and the vastness of the ocean in the west. A far cry from the Aegean.

Cato
01-15-2011, 05:19 PM
[I]This is interesting, but I suspect one could state that the Gods of Homer were closer to the Norse than they were to the later Classical and Hellenistic deities (influenced as they were by Near Eastern thought and mysticism). Though Greek and Germanic heroism share differences, I am sure. No Plato would have arisen in the north, such metaphysical speculation would have been pointless to the northman.

Myths, of course, are products of their environment. Whilst Germanic and Greek myth share certain similarities (due to being at root Indo-European) they are also very different. It would be interesting to speculate over which deities could transcend one to the other.

Germanic myth was born in the dark forests of northern Europe, the ice cold wastes and the vastness of the ocean in the west. A far cry from the Aegean.

In Havamal, Odin names such things as a warm fire and a good meal as good things. He also some very surprising things, such as to repay treachery in kind and to keep your weapons handy because you never know when danger will be at hand. This is a very pragmatic attitude, and you can see it also in fictional characters such as Conan of Cimmeria: Conan's god, Crom, only gives men the power to strive; calling upon Crom is useless because he's liable to send down dooms if he's pestered by weaklings. Conan believes in Crom, and other gods (like Mitra, the Hyborian parallel of Christ), but he doesn't believe in the too strongly.

You see this sort of attitude in the northern tales, but you make a good point in that the Germanic deities are more helpful to humans. Thor, for example, is called warder of Midgard and friend of man; Odin chooses heroes for the final battle against the cthonic powers. And so forth.

Metaphysical speculation isn't really something the northmen engaged in; they were a people of action and deeds, the well-spoken word, and whatnot. So, their religious tales reflect these values.

Foxy
01-16-2011, 12:48 PM
This is interesting, but I suspect one could state that the Gods of Homer were closer to the Norse than they were to the later Classical and Hellenistic deities (influenced as they were by Near Eastern thought and mysticism). Though Greek and Germanic heroism share differences, I am sure. No Plato would have arisen in the north, such metaphysical speculation would have been pointless to the northman.

Myths, of course, are products of their environment. Whilst Germanic and Greek myth share certain similarities (due to being at root Indo-European) they are also very different. It would be interesting to speculate over which deities could transcend one to the other.

Germanic myth was born in the dark forests of northern Europe, the ice cold wastes and the vastness of the ocean in the west. A far cry from the Aegean.

Romans and especially Caesar and Tacitus translated the names of Northern Gods in their Roman corrispectives:
WODAN-MERCURY
TYR-JUPPITER
THOR-HERCULES
FREYA-VENUS
NJORD(old name Nerthus)-NEPTUNUS
FRIGGA-JUNONIS

Tyr and Juppiter have the same indo-european root. Freya and Venus are from two different indo-european roots with a very similar meaning: -FRE and -WEN, both indicating love. The root -WEN gives Venus and its adjectives in the romance languages, like "venereo", in the Germanic languages you have, for exemple, VERWÄNDTE.

Foxy
01-16-2011, 01:58 PM
Other gods are named in the Greek-Roman mythology having important roles in the Greek paganism. Among these: Dioniso-Bacco and Asclepio. Then, as Zeus, Ade and Poseidon have divided the power on the world in three equal parts, the minor gods are divided in gods of the Grave, gods of the Heaven and Gods of the Seas.

Gods of the Heaven: Elios, Eos and Selene
Elios and Selene are the names that Apollo and Artemide acquire in their fuction of god of the Sun and goddess of the Moon. We know from Roman sources that the cult of the Sun was largely practised also among the Nordic peoples. Elio can be associated with Balder. Both are pictured as having light hair and being brighting. Greeks spoke also of the famous peoples of Iperborea (litt. "the people behind the Nordic wind): Iperboreos live in a very far land in the North, this land was perfect and illuminated by the sun for 6 months par year. This people practised the cult of the Sun and it was them, accoring to Greeks, to bring Apollo in Greece.
In Greece the cult of Elios was particularly practised in Rhodes. In Italy Elio and Selene are today names of person.

Eos
Goddess of the Dawn.

Iride
Goddess of the Rainbow, she was considered a sort of angel (in Greek "angelos" means messanger) of the gods. Here we can connect Iride with an other element of the nordic paganism: the bridge Bifröst. As in Greece the rainbow was considered a connection between the Gods and the world of the Men, the Nordic mythology is even more accurate, for it speaks clearly of a bridge that connects Asgard with Midgard. Her sister were the Harpies, symbols of the wild winds.

Gods of the Grave

Ade-Plutone, Cerbero, Caronte
Zeus' brother together with Poseidon, Krono's son, Ade is the king of the Afterworld. He had a special hut by which he could become invisible. His kigdom is underground, dark and full of fog. In this place the forces of regeneration of the nature act so that on the ground the life can sprout. For this reason Romans call him "Pluto", "Givers of richnesses".
Deads arrive in front of the gates of his Kingdom and find its guardian, the cruel Cerbero. He is a dog-wolf with three heads, the three heads rapresent the destruction of the present, of the past and of the future. He is probably the force that devours the corpses and that separates the Deads and the Livings.
To arrive in front of the Gate, Deads must cross River Acheronte and Lake Acherusia. The only river of the Afterworld is the Stige.
On it there is ferryman Caronte. To be ferried, Deads pay an offering to him, otherwise they are obligated to continue to wander between the two worlds without peace. So it is very important to give to Deads a good burial and put in their mouth or on their eyes some coins for Caronte. Hermes-Mercury accompany the Deads until the Afterworld.

The Nymphees
Nymphees are spirits of the nature, tightly connected to the place of their birth that can be a tree, a waterspring, a mount... For this reason they have a long life but are not immortal. They are divided in nymphes of the watersprings, called Krenes, nymphes of the rivers, called Naiades, numphes of the vegetation and of the trees (Melies and Driades), nymphes of the woods (Alseides), of the mountains (Oreades), protectors of the newborns (Cures), of the waves (Ondines) and of the sheeps (Epimelides).
The Nymphes, with Pan, Persefone, Dioniso, Ermes and the Satires (or Proserpina, Bacco and Mercury) constitute the spirits of the ground. They can be associated with the Vanir.

Eros-Cupido
According to Esiodo, Eros bore from Caos and was the most beautiful of the immortals. He rapresents the passion of the love. His force was the primordial element from which the creation started. An other version says that he was son of Aphrodites.
He spreads the fecundating force in Spring.

Carites or The Graces
Three divinities give to the men joy, grace and beauty, thank to them some mortals become wise, handsome and famous. They spend their time with Aphrodites.

The Muses
Once defeated the Titans, the Gods asked Zeus to create new divine forces to celebrate their great victory. And Zeus made with Mnemosine 9 goddesses. They inspire the artists. Their names are: Clio, muse of History; Euterpe, Muse of music; Talia, Muse of Comedy; Melpomene, Muse of Tragedy; Tersicore, Muse of Dance and of the Lyric Poetry; Erato, Muse of the Love Writings and of the Wedding Songs; Polimnia, Muse of the Mime; Urania, Muse of Astronomy; Calliope, Muse of the Epic. To them the artists ask inspiration, without their help none is able to write.

Tyche or Fortuna, the Moires or Parche
Tyche, or Fortuna for Romans, was the goddess who offered men the good Luck, but also the Bad Luck. Romans distinguished the positive and the negative aspects of the goddess calling her Bona Fortuna when she spreads richness and abundance, Mala Fortuna when she spreads disgrace. The Horn of Abundance, Cornucopia, is the amulet to call Bona Fortuna in a particular place.
The cult of Fortuna was largely practised in Rome, where almost every city had a temple dedicated to her as she was believed to be the patron and guardian of the Empire.
The Destiny, however, was established by three spinners. To their decisions men and gods are submitted, neither Zeus can change their decisions. The first decided who borns, the second the quantity of forune/misfortune of every being, the third cuts the life.

Nemesi
She is not a goddess, as she was first introduces among Greeks by philosophers. It is that force that punishes the arrogance and the empiety.

Gods of the Seas

Nereo and Tritone
King of the Sea like the nordic Njörd (also the name is very similar). Their daughters are the Nereides. They spread calmness in the seas and assist the sailors. Tritone, on the contrary, was a sort of monster that caused storms, moved isles.

Liffrea
01-18-2011, 11:57 AM
Originally Posted by Vampire of Venice
Romans and especially Caesar and Tacitus translated the names of Northern Gods in their Roman corrispectives

I wouldn’t take it to much to heart, the Romans were notorious for syncretism, often, in my opinion, based upon some superficial quality.

As I’ve mentioned before Zeus is the only demonstrably Indo-European deity in the Greek pantheon, his counterpart would be Thor in Germanic lore.

After that it becomes extremely complex. I’m not in any way inclined to accept a straight comparison between any two separate mythologies.

Psychonaut
01-18-2011, 12:17 PM
As I’ve mentioned before Zeus is the only demonstrably Indo-European deity in the Greek pantheon...

:confused:

What about Uranus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranus_%28mythology%29), Eos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eos) and Helios (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios), all of which have clear Vedic cognates?

Liffrea
01-18-2011, 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by Psychonaut
What about Uranus, Eos and Helios, all of which have clear Vedic cognates?

Sorry, I meant to specify amongst the Olympians.:)

Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Demeter, Athena, Dionysus, Apollo, Artemis, Ares, Aphrodite, Hephaestus and Hermes.

As far as I know, other than Zeus, none of the others have any clear IE roots.

Foxy
01-19-2011, 02:00 PM
Sorry, I meant to specify amongst the Olympians.:)

Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Demeter, Athena, Dionysus, Apollo, Artemis, Ares, Aphrodite, Hephaestus and Hermes.

As far as I know, other than Zeus, none of the others have any clear IE roots.

The Olympian deities exist only in Greece. Roman paganism, often confused with the Greek religion, doesn't admit the supremacy of any god. Gods are all on the same livel and are just spirits of the nature. For Romans their number has not limit, that's why Romans "adopted" also the gods of the other peoples. Besides it is wrong to compare Zeus with Thor. His counterpart is Tyr, for its linguistic root and its functions.

Among Roman deities with an Indo-European origin it's the case to mention also: Maia, Mars (from I.E. *Mawrots, "man/hero"), Neptunus (I.E,*Akwom Nepot), Venere (from I.E. *-wen "love"), Saturno (I.E. *-sat "richness), Diana (I.E. divios, Latin dies, "day/light").

Among Greek deities with an indo-European origin we find also: Ares (from "arya", warrior).

These are the ones I know.

Zankapfel
01-23-2011, 02:30 AM
Now I know there is a distinction, but these are some good online resources for introductory information on Hellenic Polytheism.

General Information: Gods, Goddesses, Heroes, and Nature Divinities

Title: Theoi Greek Mythology: Exploring Mythology in Classical Literature & Art
Author: Aaron J. Atsma
Link: http://www.theoi.com

Theoi Greek Mythology is like a multi-tool for Hellenic Polytheists. It contains information about most deities, popular or obscure, along with excerpts from major Classical, Hellenistic, and Roman texts in the deity descriptions. Because many Hellenic prayers often involve a litany of divine epithets, this site is also useful for familiarizing yourself with some of the more popular ones (i.e., Apollon Noumenios for Apollon of the Noumenia).

Household Religion

Title: Hellenic Household Worship
Author(s): Christos Pandion Panopoulos (ed. & tr.: Lesley & Rathamanthys Madytinos)
Link: http://labrys.gr/index.php?l=householdworship

Hellenic Household Worship discusses the deities of the household and their function within the household cultus (worship). The guide provides extensive images and notes. Christos Pandion Panopoulos is associated with Labrys, one of several Hellenic (Greek) organizations committed to the restoration of the Greek Gods.

Hymns and Other Primary Texts

Title: Perseus Digital Library 4.0
Responsible Party: Department of Classics, Tufts University
Link: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu

Perseus describes itself as an ongoing practical experiment in digital collection development. They have a large number of Classical texts, retrievable using the Search tool, and a tutorial for new users. Texts include the Homeric Hymns and most of the other primary texts (works written by ancient writers, not modern commentary) Hellenic Polytheists will recommend to you.

Keeping Time

Title: HMEPA (Hellenic Month Established Per Athens)
Link: http://www.numachi.com/~ccount/hmepa/

HMEPA provides Athenian festival information and the coinciding Gregorian calendar dates. While Athenian festivals are most popularly observed in the modern Hellenic Polytheistic community, many individuals have created their own festivals or modified the Athenian ones to give the religion some local color. Others have completely abandoned the Attic calendar in favor of reconstructing those of other ancient city-states.

Libations and Other Rituals

Title: Greek Rituals, Temenos Theon
Author: Kyrene Ariadne
Link: http://kyrene.4t.com/rituals.html

Temenos Theon outlines many ritual practices, such as prayer and celebratory ritual, along with some guidelines for properly conducting a ritual without offending anything important.

Title: Liturgical Resources, Sponde!
Link: http://sites.google.com/site/spondelibation/home/reconstruction-of-hellenic-polytheistic-practices/liturgical-resources

Provides essential, down-to-Earth information about offerings, prayer, and libations — including how to differentiate between a sponde and a khoe. I have linked to the liturgical resources, which contain the bulk of Sponde!'s ritual information.

Morality

Title: Delphic Maxims
Author: Seven Sages (attributed)
Link: http://mirrorpalace.wordpress.com/delphic-maxims/

The text of the Delphic Maxims consists of 147 guidelines for human behavior. While some other guidelines exists (such as the Commandments of Solon), this is by far the most popular. While I personally find Maxim 95 a bit sexist, most of the list provides a holistic look at how to approach life, death, and everything in between.

And now that I've seen the Goddesses that have been listed, is anyone familiar with the Eris (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eris_%28Mythologie%29) controversy?
Some pagans claim Eris is actually a Discordian invention, here is a humorous and interesting piece about it: http://webspace.webring.com/people/ug/goldenmonkey/Eris.html

Turkophagos
01-25-2011, 08:05 PM
HELLENISM: What We Believe, What We Stand For


http://www.rassias.gr/b.jpg


Hellenism (ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΣ ΕΘΝΙΣΜΟΣ) is not simply a Religion and Cosmotheory, it is a certain form of human consciousness and an everyday ethos. It is a strong adversary of the so-called “Monotheism” and this not only due to its being the most well-documented of the ancient polytheistic nature-Religions, but also because it is the cultural product of a civilization much higher -on all levels- than the one which created and spread the worship of a Desert “God” throughout the world. Hellenism perceives Cosmos (ΚΟΣΜΟΣ, i.e. the Universe) as an ever-existing Being, which not only was not created by some “creator” God out of nothing (ΕΚ ΤΟΥ ΜΗΔΕΝΟΣ), but on the contrary allowed the Gods themselves to be created through its procedures. Hellenism understands Cosmos as ΑΠΕΙΡΟΝ (Apeiron, Infinity) in great, wonderful order and therefore in Hellenic language Cosmos means also jewel (ΚΟΣΜΟΣ, ΚΟΣΜΗΜΑ). Gods were born inside the Cosmos and live inside it -they are part of it. This is our REAL dispute with the so-called “Monotheism;” not the number of Gods (One or Many, Mono- or Poly-) but where the God or Gods stand in relation to the Cosmos. For the “Monotheists” the Cosmos was created by an ever -existing Being outside it (so in this macro-historical level it is nothing more than a mortal creation). For the “Monotheists” Cosmos is a creation that has to obey the laws of its “creator”. For us Hellenes, the eternal Cosmos emerges always from inside of itself (ΑΝΑΔΥΕΤΑΙ ΑΦ’ ΕΑΥΤΟΥ) and is the creator of all Gods, which have to obey its own laws. In the Hellenic Cosmotheory, these laws are :


ΑΝΤΙΠΕΠΟΝΘΟΣ ("Antipeponthόs", untranslatable to English, but roughly meaning "all events influence others" thought without "cause and effect"),

ΝΟΜΟΣ ("Nόmos", the entirey of the universal physical Laws), and

ΑΝΑΓΚΗ (“Anάngee” Need and Fate), which all Gods respect and obey.

Due to the eternal nature of Cosmos itself, the Hellenic perception of ΧΡΟΝΟΣ ("Chrόnos", Time) is not linear (as the followers of Yahweh or the modern "rationalists" declare), nor circular (as many judeo-born occult dogmas teach) through the ΟΥΡΟΒΟΡΟΣ symbol ("Ourobόros”, tail-eater snake), but spiral and leading to ΑΠΕΙΡΟΝ. Through this shape of Time, the annual circles, the lunar circles, the human (and all) life, and the art of Prophecy, are fully interpreted. History is never "repeated", just similar to the point that identical events happen but always under different circumstances. And the death of humans (and of all mortal forms of life) happens as the philosopher ΑΛΚΜΑΙΩΝ (Alkmaion) declared, simply "because it is impossible for the end of the circle to touch the beginning". In other words, because it is impossible for the old to become infants again.

For the Hellenic Tradition, or at least its part not yet influenced by the "moral" ideas brought over from eastern civilizations by some famous philosophers as Pythagoras and Plato, no such thing as the "karma" of the eastern theocrats exists, and no "judges" exist in the skies or elsewhere. All dead become automatically holy and then they are born again until through ΑΡΕΤΗ ("Aretee" Virtue) one day their ΨΥΧΗ (Psyche) escapes from the spiral of Time, thus becoming primitive God, ΔΑΙΜΩΝ ("daimon") a word with a positive meaning for Hellenes, in contrast with Judeo-Christain superstition. ΗΡΑΚΛΗΣ (Hercules) is the ultimate symbol of this struggle of each mortal to make his / her way to Olympus, among the Immortal Ones. Hercules is the ultimate symbol for all Hellenes of the past and the present. No, we do not believe in ΜΕΤΕΜΨΥΧΩΣΙΣ ("Metempsyhosis" Re-incarnation) suffering or prospering in this life to pay for or be rewarded for the bad or good actions of previous lives, but instead simply in ΠΑΛΙΓΓΕΝΕΣΙΑ ("Paligenesίa", Rebirth). This perspective distinguishes us from the theocratic dogmas that terrify their believers with "punishments" e.t.c. We love or hate completely outside the Judeo-Christian or karmic designs and dualisms. No dualism of "Good and Evil" exists in the Immortal Cosmos, nor such things as the miscellaneous "moralities" that all the dualistic dogmas spread among humanity. We become virtuous only because we choose to be such.

Our Gods are many and we understand them as completing the make-up of the Universal Sphere of Cosmos to its maximum potential and whole. Thus, from the ΔΩΔΕΚΑΕΔΡΟΝ ("Dodekάhedron") geometric shape (that fills up the sphere to its maximum) we imagine twelve planes, each one presenting a God inside the Cosmos and we define our Hellenic ΠΑΝΘΕΟΝ (Pάntheon, ΠΑΝ ΤΩΝ ΘΕΩΝ , All The Gods) as ΔΩΔΕΚΑΘΕΟΝ ("Dodekάtheon", Pantheon of The Twelve Gods).The Twelve Gods of ours live inside the Shpere of Cosmos and form its various behaviors. In the same way, the twelve Zodiacs represent twelve "energies" that reach Earth and live inside the humans and animals, thus forming various behaviors as well.

Our Twelve Gods are also called ΟΛΥΜΠΙΟΙ ("Olympioi", The Olympians) not because, as many want to believe, they.. dwell on Mt. Olympus, as the mountains with this name numbered not one but eighteen throughout the Hellenic World. This is just a poetic conception, similar to the one that wants Pan to dwell in the forests of Arcadia. The word "Olympus" comes from the verb ΛΑΜΠΩ (" lάmpein ", shining). Our Twelve Gods are the "Shining Ones", and the real "Olympus" is not a geographical but a spiritual place, where the Gods really exist.

Another fact worth noting is that these Twelve Gods are not the same Twelve Gods for all Hellenes as some leave Dionysos out, some leave Hestia, e.t.c., replacing them with others. It is the number that counts, not the names of the Gods which in any case number in the thousands- and we must underline here that Hellenism honors and worships not only conscious forces and energies of Nature (as almost all Pagan religions do) but also abstract Ideas, such as Harmony, Eunomia, Justice, Freedom, Beauty, Luck, e.t.c. For us, the Ideas are alive and have form and consciousness; they are real deities that simply show themselves through the functions of the human mind.

A basic (“ for beginners ”) form of invocation of the Twelve Olympian Gods, a Pantheon that was worshiped at least since the 16th Century before the Judeo-Christian Era (they are named U-ru-pa-ja-jo in the Linear B inscription of Pylos), and openly until the 9th Century of our times (when the last remains of worship of the ethnic Hellenic Gods were exterminated in Lakonia, under the persecutions by "Saint" Nikon the so-called "Metanoite" i.e. "Repent") is the following:

(The Gods are being invoked in "couples" according to the elements and functions that each "couple" supervises).

* Hestia (the power or denization and of common ethos: all invocations start with her named first: " ΑΦ’ ΕΣΤΙΑΣ ")
* The honored God or Goddess of the hellenic lunar month
* Hephaistos - Hestia (alternatively: Hermes - Hestia)
* Ares - Aphrodite
* Apollo - Artemis
* Hermes - Athena (alternatively: Hephaistos - Athena)
* Poseidon - Demeter
* Hera - Zeus

We must emphasize here that the "male" and "female" terms inside the Hellenic Pantheon have nothing to do with the sexism and dualism dwelling in the minds of narrow-minded followers of alien cultures. Our Gods have no genitals. The existence of six Gods and six Goddesses inside the Hellenic Pantheon only serves to declare the total balance of all elements and characteristics inside the Sphere of Cosmos. Understanding the structure, nature and distribution of the Cosmos in this way, Hellenism comes in open opposition to all one-sided and partial dogmas on Cosmos, such as "Monotheism", "Bitheism" e.t.c. Because of this, for centuries now, it has been attacked with all the weapons that the arsenal of its enemies contains, from the burnings and crucifixions by the christianized Romans of Contantinoupolis to the disinformation and slander of the modern servants of the Desert "God" Yahweh (in all their disguises). And it may sound odd, but both we and our enemies know that the power of Hellenism is more than that of a Cosmotheory or of a Religion. It's above all a political and social "how to" theory that means to "haunt" the Every Day Life with its high principles: Dignity, Freedom, Beauty, Honesty, Variety, Tolerance, Candor..

We represent an ethos and a cosmotheory, both deeply admirable, for they never allowed the existence of priestly castes, unquestioning obedience, fear or guilt (Hellenism knows nothing about the word "sin"), dogma, missions, or "sacred" books. We are fighting for the Hellenic Dignity inside a world which is totally dominated by an alien culture and cosmotheory. (...) From a strictly "strategic" perspective, we appear almost insane or, at least, "defeated in advance". But we know that we tread the correct path and that the Gods support us. Just by existing we win !

We are the revenge of the Ancient Psyche. We call into question almost every thought and act of this dying world enslaved to the Desert "God" Yahweh, almost every single behavior. And we are in full solidarity with all groups and movements all around the Globe, which work for the restoration of their traditional / indigenous ethos and religions, and also with all the others which fight the multi-faceted war for Freedom, Tolerance, Respect for Nature and Direct Democracy in all levels of Every Day Life.


http://alkman1.blogspot.com/2006/08/hellenism-what-we-believe-what-we.html

Foxy
01-25-2011, 08:19 PM
HELLENISM: What We Believe, What We Stand For


http://www.rassias.gr/b.jpg


Hellenism (ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΣ ΕΘΝΙΣΜΟΣ) is not simply a Religion and Cosmotheory, it is a certain form of human consciousness and an everyday ethos. It is a strong adversary of the so-called “Monotheism” and this not only due to its being the most well-documented of the ancient polytheistic nature-Religions, but also because it is the cultural product of a civilization much higher -on all levels- than the one which created and spread the worship of a Desert “God” throughout the world. Hellenism perceives Cosmos (ΚΟΣΜΟΣ, i.e. the Universe) as an ever-existing Being, which not only was not created by some “creator” God out of nothing (ΕΚ ΤΟΥ ΜΗΔΕΝΟΣ), but on the contrary allowed the Gods themselves to be created through its procedures. Hellenism understands Cosmos as ΑΠΕΙΡΟΝ (Apeiron, Infinity) in great, wonderful order and therefore in Hellenic language Cosmos means also jewel (ΚΟΣΜΟΣ, ΚΟΣΜΗΜΑ). Gods were born inside the Cosmos and live inside it -they are part of it. This is our REAL dispute with the so-called “Monotheism;” not the number of Gods (One or Many, Mono- or Poly-) but where the God or Gods stand in relation to the Cosmos. For the “Monotheists” the Cosmos was created by an ever -existing Being outside it (so in this macro-historical level it is nothing more than a mortal creation). For the “Monotheists” Cosmos is a creation that has to obey the laws of its “creator”.

Very interesting. I feel even closer to Greek paganism than to Christianism. Indeed, Hellenism is a sort of pantheism.

Cato
01-26-2011, 12:10 AM
Are you trying to convert people to the worship of the Twelve Olympians? :P

Foxy
07-29-2011, 01:18 PM
I was reading "The Birth of Tragedy" when the idea of the real meaning of the figure of Satyrs leapt in my mind.

According to the German philosopher, Satyrs in the Greek world were the image of a primordial status of the Man, when it was still plunged in the nature and far from civility. Nothing to do with the flat cliché of arcadic sheephards, who rapresent nothing but the decadence of Greek Satyrs.
For long time the primordial artist of ancient Greece has been identified in Homer, but, Nietzsche says, he can be seen as the Spring of the Greek culture only if we suppose an Autumn at his shoulders. His images are apollinean, his world is already ordered and the Gods have already a strong role in his epic.
Satyrs belong to the most arcaic age of the Greek culture, when the Man was still satisfied by the contemplation of the Nature and far from the civil world. Satyrs were considered to be able flute players and rapresented also the sexual force of the Nature. They accompany Dionisius together with the Nymphes.

Analyzing the figure of the Satyrs we see the strong dionisiac element in them: their phisical look make them between the human and the animal, they drink wine and play music, all elements that are found in the orgiastic rites.

With the conversion to the Christianism, Satyrs were identifies with Satana, considering their bestial aspect and their licentious nature, in contrast with the new religion based on streight dogmas. According to the ethimology, the figure of the Satyr was at the beginning a male monkey with very pronunced sexual attributes.

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr217/augustav_2008/Statues/Satyr.jpg

Foxy
07-29-2011, 01:30 PM
There are parallels between the southern and northern cosmologies, but the northern cosmology has a harshness that the Mediterranean religions of ancient times largely lack. I think it's this ferocity that makes the Voluspa so haunting, for even the chief of the gods himself is doomed to die under the fangs of the great wolf.

In my opinion both the Greek religion and the nordic religion are cruel compared to modern religions. Northerns used to hang prisoners in their cults (so I have read) while Southerns played rites in which they tore living animals and at the beginning they used to do human sacrifices. This is becouse both the religions were amoral differently from Christianism. Only the State provided a morality, the Gods were often as cruel as men or more and committed impious actions like rapes, murders, sometimes only for envy or revange.

The difference in my opinion is that while the Nordic cruelty has never been able to produce art, the Greek cruelty produced the Tragedy.

A special case is rapresented by the Roman culture. It's like if the Roman culture didn't need religion except to unify their culture. They were far more focused on the State, a perfect administrative machine. Romans were great architects, soldiers and lawyers but in my opinion they weren't artist. They became only imitating the Greeks.

Turkophagos
07-29-2011, 01:57 PM
The Twelve Basic Hellenic Characteristics

- Hellenic Paideia and ability to understand the abstract hellenic meanings and ideas in their full depth.

- Polytheistic perspective of Cosmos (selfcreation, non-linear time, multiplicity of the Divine e.t.c.)

- Eleutheroprepeia and Parrhesia - to stand and act as a free person (the status of the free has to be
proven in an everyday basis).

- Tolerance and understanding for all the other ethnic cultures. Dialectical and reasonable word.

- Eugeneia, Eunomia and Euseveia (harmonious personal and sociopolitical Ways, respect for the Divine).

- Constant awareness and desire for the Excellent (aristevein).

- Bravery and aphobia (abscence of fear).

- Kata physin zein (living according to the Natural Laws, familarity with the human body, high ecological conscience e.t.c.).

- Prudence, disinterest in the mundane and frugality.

- Direct Democracy, Panarchy (full sociopolitical participation), emphasis to the Sociopolitical than the Private element of everyday life.

- Personal and ethnical Self-Knowledge (the Know Yourself saying, for both the individual and the ethnos).

- Polymereia and industriousness.



http://alkman1.blogspot.com/2006/08/twelve-basic-hellenic-characteristics.html

Groenewolf
07-30-2011, 02:58 AM
The difference in my opinion is that while the Nordic cruelty has never been able to produce art, the Greek cruelty produced the Tragedy.

Poetry is not a form of art?:coffee:

Logan
07-30-2011, 02:34 PM
?


http://poetry.literaturelearning.org/files/images/Ode_to_a_Grecian_Urn.jpg

Thou still unravish'd bride of quietness,
Thou foster-child of silence and slow time,
Sylvan historian, who canst thus express
A flowery tale more sweetly than our rhyme:
What leaf-fring'd legend haunt about thy shape
Of deities or mortals, or of both,
In Tempe or the dales of Arcady?
What men or gods are these? What maidens loth?
What mad pursuit? What struggle to escape?
What pipes and timbrels? What wild ecstasy?
Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard
Are sweeter: therefore, ye soft pipes, play on;
Not to the sensual ear, but, more endear'd,
Pipe to the spirit ditties of no tone:
Fair youth, beneath the trees, thou canst not leave
Thy song, nor ever can those trees be bare;
Bold lover, never, never canst thou kiss,
Though winning near the goal - yet, do not grieve;
She cannot fade, though thou hast not thy bliss,
For ever wilt thou love, and she be fair!

Ah, happy, happy boughs! that cannot shed
Your leaves, nor ever bid the spring adieu;
And, happy melodist, unwearied,
For ever piping songs for ever new;
More happy love! more happy, happy love!
For ever warm and still to be enjoy'd,
For ever panting, and for ever young;
All breathing human passion far above,
That leaves a heart high-sorrowful and cloy'd,
A burning forehead, and a parching tongue.

Who are these coming to the sacrifice?
To what green altar, O mysterious priest,
Lead'st thou that heifer lowing at the skies,
And all her silken flanks with garlands drest?
What little town by river or sea shore,
Or mountain-built with peaceful citadel,
Is emptied of this folk, this pious morn?
And, little town, thy streets for evermore
Will silent be; and not a soul to tell
Why thou art desolate, can e'er return.

O Attic shape! Fair attitude! with brede
Of marble men and maidens overwrought,
With forest branches and the trodden weed;
Thou, silent form, dost tease us out of thought
As doth eternity: Cold Pastoral!
When old age shall this generation waste,
Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe
Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou say'st,
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

Keats

Foxy
07-31-2011, 02:45 PM
The Twelve Basic Hellenic Characteristics

- Hellenic Paideia and ability to understand the abstract hellenic meanings and ideas in their full depth.

- Polytheistic perspective of Cosmos (selfcreation, non-linear time, multiplicity of the Divine e.t.c.)

- Eleutheroprepeia and Parrhesia - to stand and act as a free person (the status of the free has to be
proven in an everyday basis).

- Tolerance and understanding for all the other ethnic cultures. Dialectical and reasonable word.

- Eugeneia, Eunomia and Euseveia (harmonious personal and sociopolitical Ways, respect for the Divine).

- Constant awareness and desire for the Excellent (aristevein).

- Bravery and aphobia (abscence of fear).

- Kata physin zein (living according to the Natural Laws, familarity with the human body, high ecological conscience e.t.c.).

- Prudence, disinterest in the mundane and frugality.

- Direct Democracy, Panarchy (full sociopolitical participation), emphasis to the Sociopolitical than the Private element of everyday life.

- Personal and ethnical Self-Knowledge (the Know Yourself saying, for both the individual and the ethnos).

- Polymereia and industriousness.



http://alkman1.blogspot.com/2006/08/twelve-basic-hellenic-characteristics.html

This is how I try to follow this very noble principles:

Hellenic Paideia: I have attempted the classical lyceum, I have studied Greek language and culture and have visited the most important places of the classic Greece. I understand Greek culture not only formally but trying to reach their deep meaning. But the more i study it the more I realize its complexity. If I said that I know the Greek culture I would be a liar. The path is still very long, especially for modern westerns who are brainwashed by a superficial scholastic.

Polytheistic prospective of cosmos: I believe that Cosmo has self-created and has not been created. Consequently the deities are in the Cosmo itself if we consider a deity a natural force. I think that natural sciences and astronomy are the best way to know it.

Eletheroprepeia: I try to live in accordance to my Being not to my Appearing. This is the most free way that a modern Italian could live. This doesn't mean to be a rebel.

Tolerance and understanding: I am very curious about all the other cultures and I am pretty disappointed everytime that I see arrogance from an ethnic group/race over an other (it's not a case that I haven't answered to the thread "what do you like of being white" ;) )

Eugenia, Eunomia and Eusevia: about politics I prefer to don't speak...

Desire for the Excellent: I try to be a complete person (perfect means "all made, all closed". To be excellent you must be complete. So I try to improve my culture and my body, without suprass the measure. I also try to have high targets (there's always time to go down).

Bravery: there is only one thing that scares me: the Death. In front of it I am not brave, I admit it. I am pretty charmed by the figure of Socrate who accepted to die instead than to live only becouse he knew that it was the most coerent act and also the only one that would have made his theories eternal and his life exemplar. His wisdom was really very high.

Kata phisn zein: the ecological soul is very developed in me. Is comes automatically when you have a pantheistic mindset I think.

Prudence and disinterest in frivolity: I must improve it. I am a bit against this becouse we would commit the error to don't enjoy the life. We would achieve a mentality that is closer to christianism than to hellenism I think, but it's just my opinion. Maybe when I'll become older I'll change my mind.

Direct democracy: to be focused on Excellence and to be perfect you must cultivate also the political partecipation. Personally I prefer to don't be politically active myself (I don't want to join the politics) but I follow enough the political scene of my country.

Self knowing and ethnical self-knowledge: my partecipation to Apricity witnesses point 2 :) The first one is something that I leave to my private life.
I have only a discordance: I am Italian but I feel like a Greek.

Industriouness: my motto is "work ennobles man", but also "culture and studying ennoble man". So I am twice industrious. I am against stakanovism anyway, becouse it breaks the armony and the perfection of the individual.


Poetry is not a form of art?:coffee:

I have not said that northern pagans were barbars, I have just said that in my opinion the nordic cruelty (not the nordic religion as a whole) didn't produce art, while Greek cruelty produced the Tragedy. Greeks have been able to create characters of very cruel people that we cannot avoid to admire even if they are cruel. For exemple, Edipus. He kills his father and marries his mother but a part of us still feels that he is innocent after all and we sympathize with him (in the meaning of "syn pathizo" - I soffer with him) and this disturbs us twice.

Óttar
07-31-2011, 11:25 PM
One wonders why, besides the execrable decrees of Constantine and Theodosius, such a wonderful religion and worldview was ultimately abandoned (some stubborn remnants like rural folk festivals and beliefs in nature spirits not withstanding) by the Hellenikoi. Especially in favour of such a dry and stifling religion like Christianity.

IO Evoe Potnia Therion.

Groenewolf
08-01-2011, 07:09 PM
I have not said that northern pagans were barbars, I have just said that in my opinion the nordic cruelty (not the nordic religion as a whole) didn't produce art, while Greek cruelty produced the Tragedy.

And the fate of the Volsungs and the Nibelungs do not count?