Are modern Sicilians Descendants of Arabs?

[tahir0010]

I was reading in the Sicilian times in English of course and the author said, "They ruled Sicily for two centuries and a few decades but their influence was nothing short of monumental. Under their administration, the island's population doubled as dozens of towns were founded and cities repopulated. The Arabs changed Sicilian agriculture and cuisine. Their scientific and engineering achievements were remarkable. More significantly, they changed society itself. To this day, many Sicilian social attitudes reflect the profound influence - often in subtle ways - of the Arabs who ruled a thousand years ago but who (with the Greeks and others) are the ancestors of today's Sicilians." So if the population doubled and many cities were founded by the Arabs wouldn't that mean there were now more Arabs there then Sicilians? So do you think Sicilians are actually descendants of the Arabs?

[wvwvw]

That's all a OWD Turd can contribute to a European community forum.

[tahir0010]

That's all a OWD Turd can contribute to a European community forum.

Yes that is all I contribute unfortunately :(.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

I was reading in the Sicilian times in English of course and the author said, "They ruled Sicily for two centuries and a few decades but their influence was nothing short of monumental. Under their administration, the island's population doubled as dozens of towns were founded and cities repopulated. The Arabs changed Sicilian agriculture and cuisine. Their scientific and engineering achievements were remarkable. More significantly, they changed society itself. To this day, many Sicilian social attitudes reflect the profound influence - often in subtle ways - of the Arabs who ruled a thousand years ago but who (with the Greeks and others) are the ancestors of today's Sicilians." So if the population doubled and many cities were founded by the Arabs wouldn't that mean there were now more Arabs there then Sicilians? So do you think Sicilians are actually descendants of the Arabs?
Like the case with Spain typically the majority of the “Arabs” were arabized natives or Must’arabs who took on Arabic language but genetically did not much change this isn’t only the case for Sicily and Spain, but the Arabic world itself is primarily made up of Arabized people whose ancestors were not originally Arabs, not wholly anyway some may have been and of course some of the roots of modern Arabs go back to the Arabian Peninsula depending on the area, but not entirely unless we are talking about Khaliji people of course.

[Sikeliot]

There was some genetic influence from Arabia and North Africa but most of the "Arab" population in Sicily were Arabized peoples who would have been a mixture of Italic, Greek, and Levantine. The same way North Africans are Arabized Berbers, Levantines are Arabized Canaanites, and so on.

[Hamlet]

I was reading in the Sicilian times in English of course and the author said, "They ruled Sicily for two centuries and a few decades but their influence was nothing short of monumental. Under their administration, the island's population doubled as dozens of towns were founded and cities repopulated. The Arabs changed Sicilian agriculture and cuisine. Their scientific and engineering achievements were remarkable. More significantly, they changed society itself. To this day, many Sicilian social attitudes reflect the profound influence - often in subtle ways - of the Arabs who ruled a thousand years ago but who (with the Greeks and others) are the ancestors of today's Sicilians." So if the population doubled and many cities were founded by the Arabs wouldn't that mean there were now more Arabs there then Sicilians? So do you think Sicilians are actually descendants of the Arabs?

You're clearly new here - no, they are not. Arab influence though, sure.

[tahir0010]

Like the case with Spain typically the majority of the “Arabs” were arabized natives or Must’arabs who took on Arabic language but genetically did not much change this isn’t only the case for Sicily and Spain, but the Arabic world itself is primarily made up of Arabized people whose ancestors were not originally Arabs, not wholly anyway some may have been and of course some of the roots of modern Arabs go back to the Arabian Peninsula depending on the area, but not entirely unless we are talking about Khaliji people of course.

So most sicilians would not have arab ancestry? That is interesting but it was ruled by an Arab dynasty for almost 2 centures I would think that the modern sicilian would at least have 5/10% middle eastern roots?

[Hamlet]

So most sicilians would not have arab ancestry? That is interesting but it was ruled by an Arab dynasty for almost 2 centures I would think that the modern sicilian would at least have 5/10% middle eastern roots?

They have wayyy more than 5/10% Middle Eastern roots lol, just not from Arabic influence - I imagine that numbers easily under 5%

[SardiniaAtlantis]

So most sicilians would not have arab ancestry? That is interesting but it was ruled by an Arab dynasty for almost 2 centures I would think that the modern sicilian would at least have 5/10% middle eastern roots?

Again most of the “Arabs” were Must’arabs a lot of them repopulated Malta which explains why Maltese speak Siculo-Arabic but don’t show Arabic markers in DNA on the whole.

[tahir0010]

They have wayyy more than 5/10% Middle Eastern roots lol, just not from Arabic influence - I imagine that numbers easily under 5%

They are just an interesting people I met someone from there a couple of days ago and I mean I thought he was arab. As the other user said I guess they are just like Spain when it was ruled by the Moroccans.

[Sikeliot]

So most sicilians would not have arab ancestry? That is interesting but it was ruled by an Arab dynasty for almost 2 centures I would think that the modern sicilian would at least have 5/10% middle eastern roots?

Sicilians have a significant amount of Levantine ancestry (shared with the original Jews, Phoenicians, Aramaeans, etc.) but not to people from the Arabian Peninsula minus a few percentages here and there.

[Peterski]

Rather of Greeks, Phoenicians and indigenous Siculi / Sicels, with some Arab and Norman admixtures.

Phoenicians probably wouldn't be that genetically different from some Arabic groups or from Copts.


Sicilians have a significant amount of Levantine ancestry (shared with the original Jews, Phoenicians, Aramaeans, etc.) but not to people from the Arabian Peninsula minus a few percentages here and there.

Yes I think by "Arabs" he means everyone who speaks Arabic today, which includes most of Levantines.

But present-day Levantines are mostly descended from local Pre-Arab Invasion populations.

[Sikeliot]

Rather of Greeks, Phoenicians and indigenous Siculi / Sicels, with some Arab and Norman admixtures.

Phoenicians probably wouldn't be that genetically different from some Arabic groups or from Copts.



Yes I think by "Arabs" he means everyone who speaks Arabic today, which includes most of Levantines.

But present-day Levantines are mostly descended from local Pre-Arab Invasion populations.

My inclination is that many of the "Arabs" in Sicily were from Egypt and Syria, which means at least some of the ancestry they brought is indistinguishable from what was already there. I also think the minor percentages of East African came via Egypt and Tunisia.

I would guess that at least in western Sicily, the people have a SMALL amount of genuine Arabian ancestry, but nothing substantial.

[tahir0010]

Rather of Greeks, Phoenicians and indigenous Siculi / Sicels, with some Arab and Norman admixtures.

Phoenicians probably wouldn't be that genetically different from some Arabic groups or from Copts.



Yes I think by "Arabs" he means everyone who speaks Arabic today, which includes most of Levantines.

But present-day Levantines are mostly descended from local Pre-Arab Invasion populations.

I guess the only ones that would be extremeley arab would be the moors. Who would still have high roots related to arabness.

[Leto]

My inclination is that many of the "Arabs" in Sicily were from Egypt and Syria, which means at least some of the ancestry they brought is indistinguishable from what was already there. I also think the minor percentages of East African came via Egypt and Tunisia.

I would guess that at least in western Sicily, the people have a SMALL amount of genuine Arabian ancestry, but nothing substantial.
I agree with this. The actual Arabian admixture must very small.

[catgeorge]

They have as much Arabic as Turks have Central Asiatic - around 5%

[Sikeliot]

I agree with this. The actual Arabian admixture must very small.

My best guess is this, yes. I think western Sicilians and the inland regions like Caltanissetta likely have small amounts, but I would assume southeastern Sicily has almost none.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Does anyone know how many Arabic words are common in Sicily?

[Sikeliot]

Does anyone know how many Arabic words are common in Sicily?

Not many, but there are a lot of place names that derive from various Arabic words. They are obvious when you see them. Gibellina, Racalmuto, Sciacca, and so on.

[Tauromachos]

Not many, but there are a lot of place names that derive from various Arabic words. They are obvious when you see them. Gibellina, Racalmuto, Sciacca, and so on.

I think its more in toponyms ,architecture and some foods than in the language

[Sikeliot]

I think its more in toponyms ,architecture and some foods than in the language

Sicilians under Arab rule spoke a dialect of Tunisian Arabic, which is now Maltese. The Sicilian language is of Latin origin and did not develop until after that.

[wvwvw]

They have as much Arabic as Turks have Central Asiatic - around 5%

Less than that..around 2% if not less.

[Sikeliot]

Less than that..around 2% if not less.

Maybe in the east but western Sicily likely it is higher than just 2%.

[Bobby Martnen]

I would guess that at least in western Sicily, the people have a SMALL amount of genuine Arabian ancestry, but nothing substantial.

Which do you think is higher in Western Sicily - Arab or Norman admixture?

[Sikeliot]

Which do you think is higher in Western Sicily - Arab or Norman admixture?

Norman might be higher in Trapani but in Palermo and Agrigento, probably Arab. Still neither is going to be higher than 5%. By comparison, Norman in Lebanese populations is in the 1-3% range and in eastern Sicily almost absent.

[MercifulServant]

They have some north african and middle eastern genes but it doesnt make them arabic genetically

[JohnSmith]

No not from what I have seen,, people exaggerate.

[Sikeliot]

They have some north african and middle eastern genes but it doesnt make them arabic genetically

Those genes are more likely Punic, not Arab.