Why everyone want Illyrian Y-dna??

[Drawing-slim]

Seriously what the fuck? Everyone on TA desperately want to be E-v13 J2b or R1b Balkan, all these Y’s are Illyrian. But why? What’s the special pride on this?
Should one feel pride or shame being paternally directly linked with old pathetic loser insignificant Illyrians?

[Diocleatian204]

Pure Illyrian is E-V13

[Kelmendasi]

Pure Illyrian is E-V13
So is J2b2-L283 and R1b-Z2103

[Peterski]

Should one feel pride or shame being paternally directly linked with old pathetic loser insignificant Illyrians?

They are so insignificant that they are not even in this game:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-kJrAGdp10

[Babak]

Im j2a dawg

[Kelmendasi]

Im j2a dawg
Native Neolithic farmer as fuck

[Kelmendasi]

They are so insignificant that they are not even in this game:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-kJrGdp10
They are in Rome 2 though

[Drawing-slim]

So is J2b2-L283 and R1b-Z2103

Sure, but what’s so special about these lineages that everyone here celebrates deliriously when they get it on their results?!

[Gangrel]

Im j2a dawg

my nigga

what subclade

[Kelmendasi]

Sure, but what’s so special about these lineages that everyone here celebrates deliriously when they get it on their results?!
I seriously don't get it either. I think it's cooler to be linked to a clan or something which is more recent

[Gangrel]

Native Neolithic farmer as fuck

j2a = CHG

[Kelmendasi]

j2a = CHG
Nigga it spread with farmers but yh it is CHG in origin

[Gangrel]

Nigga it spread with farmers but yh it is CHG in origin

we wuz hunterz and shiet

what is your y dna origin btw

[Drawing-slim]

Curiously, how do you guys carrying these illyrian Y’s feel inside your head? You feel special? You feel you have superpowers?!
And if so how come none of you invested money on bitcoin?

[Kelmendasi]

we wuz hunterz and shiet

what is your y dna origin btw
J1 is also CHG in origin(found in Paleolithic Georgia). I am from a downstream of P58, P58 migrated south into the Levant and surrounding regions from the southern Caucasus or eastern Anatolia. My clade is not really 100% determined as I have weird and unique markers which is why I don't have any matches at 37 markers but I know that I am positive for the Z2313 SNP which is either pre-Semitic or Proto-Semitic and originates around the Levant. J1 admins believe that I could be ZS241 and a certain downstream of that which is called S12192 and is mainly found in Jews and has a Tmrca of around 1500 ybp but when compared with me it goes up to 2800 ybp which is around the year 780BC which is before the Romans so I would think that it came via Hellenic influence in the Levant or Middle East or some Phoenician or Canaanite. So far I am the only Albanian with this haplogroup that I know of but an Albanian from Montenegro who is also J1 could be from my group and so could some other Albanian family from northern Albania that is J1

[Voskos]

Illyrians were Hallstatt Aryan people that taught Greeks and Anatolians some European craft skills.That's why.

[catgeorge]

Because they want to make us laugh

[Drawing-slim]

Because they want to make us laugh

Well Greeks have a lot of Illyrian Y-dna’s too.

[catgeorge]

Well Greeks have a lot of Illyrian Y-dna’s too.

Farmer DNA did not come from north and went south it came from south and went north. :thumb001:

[Hamlet]

Illyrians were Hallstatt Aryan people that taught Greeks and Anatolians some European craft skills.That's why.

Nah lol, though they might have introduced Iron swords to them.

[Kelmendasi]

Nah lol, though they might have introduced Iron swords to them.
The proto-Illyrian burial site was found with Bronze items iirc

[Lavrentis]

Well Greeks have a lot of Illyrian Y-dna’s too.

Such as? Greeks are mostly J2a, that's Myceanean/Minoan

[Hamlet]

The proto-Illyrian burial site was found with Bronze items iirc

True, but Hallstatt Celts spread the use of Iron swords, and I suspect a decent amount of that spreading in the Balkans would have been done by Illyrians.

[Kelmendasi]

Such as? Greeks are mostly J2a, that's Myceanean/Minoan
There is some J2b2-L283 and R1b-BY611(seems to have expanded from the west Balkans) also there are some V13 clades which could be from the west Balkans

[Kelmendasi]

True, but Hallstatt Celts spread the use of Iron swords, and I suspect a decent amount of that spreading in the Balkans would have been done by Illyrians.
Yh true the Illyrians were said to have been very much influenced by the hallstatt peoples

[Lavrentis]

There is some J2b2-L283 and R1b-BY611(seems to have origin in the west Balkans) also there are some V13 clades which could be from the west Balkans

Do you think it's from Arvanites? I do

[Kelmendasi]

Do you think it's from Arvanites? I do
A good amount is probably from Arvanites

[Voskos]

The Illyrians, bearers of the Hallstatt culture, were divided into tribes, each a self-governing community with a council of elders and a chosen leader. A strong tribal chieftain, however, could unite several tribes into a kingdom. The last and best-known Illyrian kingdom had its capital at Scodra

https://www.britannica.com/place/Illyria

[Böri]

Illyrians were likely Indo-European just like modern Albanian language is.
However, before the Illyrians what's today Albania hosted Pelasgians who are thought to be non-IE people. I think E v13 is linked to them.
They were neolithic farmers who came from south and settled the area, before being linguistically assimilated by the Illyrian comers.

R1a Albanians are İllyrian descent, from Kurgan.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

They are so insignificant that they are not even in this game:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-kJrAGdp10

In this game, Slavs have poison arrows lol :D

Entirely, i think that game is not very accurate. :)

[Lucia]

The better question is why everyone is so obsessed with Y-dna. Everyone says it's irrelevant but at the same time so obsessed with it.

[Wrong]

Illyrians were likely Indo-European just like modern Albanian language is.
However, before the Illyrians what's today Albania hosted Pelasgians who are thought to be non-IE people. I think E v13 is linked to them.
They were neolithic farmers who came from south and settled the area, before being linguistically assimilated by the Illyrian comers.

R1a Albanians are İllyrian descent, from Kurgan.
R1b*, followed by J2b2 were Illyrians.

EV13 was spread by IE-people in the Bronze Age, most likely Thracians carried it the most.

R1a in the Western Balkans is empty throughout all of the Ancient samples. One can only assume it came later with the (Iranic clade)Scythians and then Slavs.

[LoLeL]

MUH ILLYRIAN thread #1234567890...

[Dibran]

Seriously what the fuck? Everyone on TA desperately want to be E-v13 J2b or R1b Balkan, all these Y’s are Illyrian. But why? What’s the special pride on this?
Should one feel pride or shame being paternally directly linked with old pathetic loser insignificant Illyrians?

With the exception of J2b2, and R1b(if I recall) E-V13 has nothing to do with Illyrians, not originally at least. I am sure there were many V13 Illyrians, much like there are now I2 Albanians and R1a Albanians. The V13 sample discovered in the Balkans pre-dates even the Proto-Illyrians. Hell, most of the samples discovered are far older than any recorded mention of the people we attached these lineages to. They definitely are native. That much is certain.

At most they are connected to Proto-Illyrians, which has nothing to do with the later Illyrians everyone has wet dreams about.

On a more serious note, I agree. Illyrians are historically nothing to be proud of. They left no impact in all the time they persisted in the Balkans, and the only time they were united was under a woman(Teuta) with a weak husband(I forget his name off the top of my head). They still lost everything under Teuta anyways.

There is some evidence to suggest that they were not a single ethnic group with one language. But, rather, a federation of tribes, loosely related. Which could explain their lack of unity cooperation.

[Wrong]

With the exception of J2b2, and R1b(if I recall) E-V13 has nothing to do with Illyrians, not originally at least. I am sure there were many V13 Illyrians, much like there are now I2 Albanians and R1a Albanians. The V13 sample discovered in the Balkans pre-dates even the Proto-Illyrians. Hell, most of the samples discovered are far older than any recorded mention of the people we attached these lineages to. They definitely are native. That much is certain.

At most they are connected to Proto-Illyrians, which has nothing to do with the later Illyrians everyone has wet dreams about.

On a more serious note, I agree. Illyrians are historically nothing to be proud of. They left no impact in all the time they persisted in the Balkans, and the only time they were united was under a woman(Teuta) with a weak husband(I forget his name off the top of my head). They still lost everything under Teuta anyways.

There is some evidence to suggest that they were not a single ethnic group with one language. But, rather, a federation of tribes, loosely related. Which could explain their lack of unity cooperation.
Just like modern Shqiptars. We will never unite, for a good reason.

It should remain this way, no way in hell I'm uniting with the types of Laberia.

[Dibran]

R1b*, followed by J2b2 in Illyrians.

EV13 was spread by IE-people in the Bronze Age, most likely Thracians carried it the most.

R1a in the Western Balkans is empty throughout all of the Ancient samples. One can only assume it came later with the (Iranic clade)Scythians and then Slavs.

Way too early to set anything in stone. Whilst, I agree this is most likely the case, we draw such conclusions from mostly modern data. The data that does exist for ancient samples are still too few. It really is just a big guessing game at this point. I did hear there is a new method of extraction, that supposedly will be able to extract DNA from formerly problematic samples. So, I imagine we will start making big moves in genetics in the future.

[Dibran]

Just like modern Shqiptars. We will never unite, for a good reason.

True. But I think they were more loosely related than even we. It would explain why they can't seem to decide whether they were Centum or Satem speakers? Maybe originally they were very mixed? But, genetics and linguistics don't go hand in hand, so I am not sure lol.

[Dibran]

The better question is why everyone is so obsessed with Y-dna. Everyone says it's irrelevant but at the same time so obsessed with it.

I think(my opinion anyways), that it is due mostly to know the tribal designation/origin of the direct paternal line. Due to the patriarchal type cultures we lead. I agree scientifically its rather meaningless and is nothing more than a means to code proteins as well as useful for tracing population movements/developments.

With regards to ethnic composition, this is completely autosomal. Culture, language etc are social constructs.

[Crimean]

Seriously what the fuck? Everyone on TA desperately want to be E-v13 J2b or R1b Balkan, all these Y’s are Illyrian. But why? What’s the special pride on this?
Should one feel pride or shame being paternally directly linked with old pathetic loser insignificant Illyrians?

You are mistaken, nobody on TA want to have J2{a,b,whatever} Y-dna, 'cos this haplo carries Semitic-like monkey subhuman look, and the corresponding brains. Everyone want to be R1 and I.

[Wrong]

You are mistaken, nobody on TA want to have J2{a,b,whatever} Y-dna, 'cos this haplo carries Semitic-like monkey subhuman look, and the corresponding brains. Everyone want to be R1 and I.
Not with that Turko-Mongol look.

[Dibran]

You are mistaken, nobody on TA want to have J2{a,b,whatever} Y-dna, 'cos this haplo carries Semitic-like monkey subhuman look, and the corresponding brains. Everyone want to be R1 and I.

haplogroups have nothing to do with autosomal genetics. It has no influence on autosomal. If this were the case, R1b Africans wouldnt be African. Regardless where it originates, you're just a Slavo-Mongoloid racist piece of shit. Ironic if you ask me. Like that turd Fractal from the ass crack of India who thinks hes Aryan and above other races/

[Laberia]

Just like modern Shqiptars. We will never unite, for a good reason.

It should remain this way, no way in hell I'm uniting with the types of Laberia.

Of course not because you are not Albanian first of all. The best thing you can do is to follow your life in your basement, eating the bread of the welfare and playing with haplogroups.
Oh, sorry i forgot, you can continue your duty as a Super Mega Big Moderator in Apricity.

[Dibran]

They are so insignificant that they are not even in this game:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-kJrAGdp10

Why would they be? You do realize its a dead giveaway why within the title of the game. Illyrians were already wiped from the historical record at this point. They were well assimilated within Byzantium.

[Dibran]

They are in Rome 2 though

Yea. This is AD times, byzantine Empire shit. Illyrians were already wiped out by this point in the game lol.

[Kelmendasi]

R1b*, followed by J2b2 were Illyrians.

EV13 was spread by IE-people in the Bronze Age, most likely Thracians carried it the most.

R1a in the Western Balkans is empty throughout all of the Ancient samples. One can only assume it came later with the (Iranic clade)Scythians and then Slavs.
I believe V13 originated in the Balkans during the late Neolithic and not from the Steppes during the Bronze Age. V13 has origin around Montenegro and Albania so the west Balkans populations would have more than it but Thracians still probably had a lot of it

[Kelmendasi]

Yea. This is AD times, byzantine Empire shit. Illyrians were already wiped out by this point in the game lol.
Yh, this game is based during Atilla's invasions

[Dibran]

Illyrians were likely Indo-European just like modern Albanian language is.
However, before the Illyrians what's today Albania hosted Pelasgians who are thought to be non-IE people. I think E v13 is linked to them.
They were neolithic farmers who came from south and settled the area, before being linguistically assimilated by the Illyrian comers.

R1a Albanians are İllyrian descent, from Kurgan.

I agree V13 is Pelasgian. J2b2 Proto-Illyrians, and R1b Illyrian. Yet they could have all been present in other paleo balkan tribes too.

R1a is Germano-Slavic in us Albanians dude. If it wasn't why are all my Y12 matches German and Slavic? It came during the great migration. Now if any evidence is discovered that finds it among an Illyrian sample fine. However, theres no evidence for it. The little evidence that we do have, seems to support that the overwhelming totality of R1a thus far in all Balkans, including Albanians, is from the great migrations Slavs/Avars/Goths etc.

[Hamlet]

R1a is Germano-Slavic in us Albanians dude. If it wasn't why are all my Y12 matches German and Slavic? It came during the great migration. Now if any evidence is discovered that finds it among an Illyrian sample fine. However, theres no evidence for it. The little evidence that we do have, seems to support that the overwhelming totality of R1a thus far in all Balkans, including Albanians, is from the great migrations Slavs/Avars/Goths etc.

R1a in Europe is mostly Corded in origin, true, but not entirely.

[Lavrentis]

R1a is Germano-Slavic in us Albanians dude. If it wasn't why are all my Y12 matches German and Slavic? It came during the great migration. Now if any evidence is discovered that finds it among an Illyrian sample fine. However, theres no evidence for it. The little evidence that we do have, seems to support that the overwhelming totality of R1a thus far in all Balkans, including Albanians, is from the great migrations Slavs/Avars/Goths etc.

How much does I2 reaches in Albanians?

[Wrong]

R1a is Germano-Slavic in us Albanians dude. If it wasn't why are all my Y12 matches German and Slavic? It came during the great migration. Now if any evidence is discovered that finds it among an Illyrian sample fine. However, theres no evidence for it. The little evidence that we do have, seems to support that the overwhelming totality of R1a thus far in all Balkans, including Albanians, is from the great migrations Slavs/Avars/Goths etc.
Yeah, Goths and Normans carried a bunch of R1a aswell. They were mainly I1, followed by R1b & R1a.

[Kelmendasi]

I agree V13 is Pelasgian. J2b2 Proto-Illyrians, and R1b Illyrian. Yet they could have all been present in other paleo balkan tribes too.

R1a is Germano-Slavic in us Albanians dude. If it wasn't why are all my Y12 matches German and Slavic? It came during the great migration. Now if any evidence is discovered that finds it among an Illyrian sample fine. However, theres no evidence for it. The little evidence that we do have, seems to support that the overwhelming totality of R1a thus far in all Balkans, including Albanians, is from the great migrations Slavs/Avars/Goths etc.
Idk about V13 being Pelasgian, the Minoans who were probably really close to the Pelasgians were J2a and G2a. E-V13 seems to have come from the region around northern Albania

[Kelmendasi]

Yeah, Goths and Normans carried a bunch of R1a aswell. They were mainly I1, followed by R1b & R1a.
Goths absorbed many Slavs afaik so it's possible for them to have carried Slavic clades of R1a

[Kelmendasi]

How much does I2 reaches in Albanians?
depends on regions. In the north it's under 5% iirc but in the south it gets over 10%

[Wrong]

Goths absorbed many Slavs afaik so it's possible for them to have carried Slavic clades of R1a
Slavs didn't really push through in the times of Gothic invasions. I'm seeing very few R1a's even in 800AD Poland samples, except in the eastern fringes of the country.

[Dibran]

R1a in Europe is mostly Corded in origin, true, but not entirely.

Originally we can say Corded true. But All Balkanites belong to European Corded R1a types. Those who are Z93 have been connected to turkic movements. Be they Ottoman, or some other turkic tribe. Maybe even Scythian.


How much does I2 reaches in Albanians?

Not sure honestly. I remember someone here mentioning it reaches up to 30 percent among Southern Albanians, but I cannot confirm that.

[Kelmendasi]

Slavs didn't really push through in the times of Gothic invasions. I'm seeing very few R1a's even in 800AD Poland samples, except in the eastern fringes of the country.
True, but Goths did settle on Balto-Slavic lands

[Kelmendasi]

Originally we can say Corded true. But All Balkanites belong to European Corded R1a types. Those who are Z93 have been connected to turkic movements. Be they Ottoman, or some other turkic tribe. Maybe even Scythian.



Not sure honestly. I remember someone here mentioning it reaches up to 30 percent among Southern Albanians, but I cannot confirm that.
It's definitely under 30% in Tosks, it's most probably 15%

[Wrong]

It's definitely under 30% in Tosks, it's most probably 15%
I2a2 exists too, which has nothing to do with the Slavs and only reaches notable frequencies in Albanians and Greeks.

[Drawing-slim]

Just like modern Shqiptars. We will never unite, for a good reason.

It should remain this way, no way in hell I'm uniting with the types of Laberia.

lol

[Dibran]

Slavs didn't really push through in the times of Gothic invasions. I'm seeing very few R1a's even in 800AD Poland samples, except in the eastern fringes of the country.

Don't forget Bastarnae. They entered the Balkans before the Slavs, and they spread throughout eastern europe up to Ukraine no? Maybe they brought some to Macedonia, and then it could have been absorbed by later movements. From the little I read, some writers called them Avaro-Slav, due to their assimilation of, and mixing with, Avars. Sure enough, I think Litvin posted a sample a while back for an Avar that came close to Poles. Probably were heavily intermixed by the time they pressed into the Balkans.

[Lavrentis]

What about R1a in Albanians? I hear that it's rare

[Wrong]

What about R1a in Albanians? I hear that it's rare
0-3% in Ghegs, 10-15% in Tosks.

Tosks have a great variety of yDNA, quite similar to Epirotes.

[Dibran]

What about R1a in Albanians? I hear that it's rare

Its 8-10 percent(the whole country). Depending on the source. In Kosova 4-6 percent. I am R1a myself. My full genomes will be ready soon. According to R1a admin, I may form a founder affect within M458(no call currently). My only match in recent history(if you consider it recent) is an Albanian from Gostivar, Macedonia, with a TMRCA of 1000 years between us at Y37. All my y12 matches are German/Slavic/English/Scandinavian. The closest Y12 match at 0 has origins from Switzerland.

[Lavrentis]

0-3% in Ghegs, 10-15% in Tosks.

Ghegs are mostly R1b-L23 and J2b2 right?

[Wrong]

Ghegs are mostly R1b-L23 and J2b2 right?
Yeah and EV13, very high in Kosovar Ghegs especially.

[Drawing-slim]

The better question is why everyone is so obsessed with Y-dna. Everyone says it's irrelevant but at the same time so obsessed with it.

Because Y-dna is everything, literally everything. Autosomal dna represents your fool blood but Ydna represents your fate, your nature.
IMO marrying within the same Ydna is incest, even if you are 10k years apart.

[Kelmendasi]

Ghegs are mostly R1b-L23 and J2b2 right?
Ghegs have an almost equal amount of E-V13 and J2b2 but just slightly more V13, R1b-BY611 is the third most common haplogroup. Tosks are in majority E-V13 iirc and have less J2b2 but higher R1b but I may be wrong

[Wrong]

Of course not because you are not Albanian first of all. The best thing you can do is to follow your life in your basement, eating the bread of the welfare and playing with haplogroups.
Oh, sorry i forgot, you can continue your duty as a Super Mega Big Moderator in Apricity.
https://i.imgur.com/eOZk8Js.jpg

[Dibran]

Because Y-dna is everything, literally everything. Autosomal dna represents your fool blood but Ydna represents your fate, your nature.
IMO marrying within the same Ydna is incest, even if you are 10k years apart.

Sorry dude, but thats not how genetics works, or even blood relation works. Haplo is 1 percent of your genome and responsible for coding proteins. It has no purpose other than what we imagine it to have. Theres 0 evidence it has any effect on your nature, other than perhaps some cases of fertility. But where one haplo has beneficial mutations they also have negative ones.If you fuck someone 50 percent autosomally similar to you, that is incest. Also anything after 7 generations usually dilutes any genetic relation of merit.

[Lucia]

Because Y-dna is everything, literally everything. Autosomal dna represents your fool blood but Ydna represents your fate, your nature.
IMO marrying within the same Ydna is incest, even if you are 10k years apart.

I don't agree, besides, in some countries two y-dnas don't have a right to marry at all.

[Fustan]

It's actually looking like J2b2 might be the defining Albanian haplogroup. The fact that it lacks in Tosks while I2a1 and R1a are more frequent really tells you how much Slavic input there has been there. That's why I don't like grouping up Albania in it's entirety to these haplogroup percentages, because it gives a skewed view.

[Drawing-slim]

I don't agree, besides, in some countries two y-dnas don't have a right to marry at all.

Oh slow down your witt lady. I mean within the same Ydna as in having kids with a women who derived from same father Ydna. That would technically constitute incest.
I think that’s why most humans are mentally sick, due to incest that has been happening for thousands of years.

[Dibran]

Oh slow down your witt lady. I mean within the same Ydna as in having kids with a women who derived from same father Ydna. That would technically constitute incest.
I think that’s why most humans are mentally sick, due to incest that has been happening for thousands of years.

No dude. Just, no lol. You don't understand how it exactly works. 7 plus generation and theres no relation. So by your reaonsing. Marrying your 2nd or 3rd cousin is ok if they don't share your Ydna through their father? Thats insanity. incest goes by actual BLOOD relation, through your entire genome. Haplogroups also have clades with splits in ancestors. If you married a girl who belonged to a father who belonged to your defining subclade, then yea, thats incest. Not everyone in a given haplogroup is related. They are only broadly related millennia ago.

[Drawing-slim]

For example; An R1b from SSA will have more in common, simalirty nature wise, with a R1b from Europe than with his countrymen.
So if a daughter of R1b father in Europe marries a R1b from Africa is still an incest.

[Drawing-slim]

No dude. Just, no lol. You don't understand how it exactly works. 7 plus generation and theres no relation. So by your reaonsing. Marrying your 2nd or 3rd cousin is ok if they don't share your Ydna through their father? Thats insanity. incest goes by actual BLOOD relation, through your entire genome. Haplogroups also have clades with splits in ancestors. If you married a girl who belonged to a father who belonged to your defining subclade, then yea, thats incest. Not everyone in a given haplogroup is related. They are only broadly related millennia ago.
I understand what I am saying sounds radically wrong but is correct.

[Dibran]

It's actually looking like J2b2 might be the defining Albanian haplogroup. The fact that it lacks in Tosks while I2a1 and R1a are more frequent really tells you how much Slavic input there has been there. That's why I don't like grouping up Albania in it's entirety to these haplogroup percentages, because it gives a skewed view.

Probable true. But its also likely it was Proto-Illyrian then Illyrian then Roman then Albanian etc. Assuming you go down the line to different stages of the historical record. R1a is not entirely Slavic. Originally it was Corded Ware. What their language sounds like is anybodies guess. More specifically, they contributed to the ethnogenesis of not only Slavs, but Germans as well, including Scandinavians(Otherwise known as Northern Germanic). Also, you have the Bastarnae, a Germanic tribe, that spread all over east Europe, up to Ukraine, and even spending some time in Macedonia. R1a is also found(to a lesser extent) in the Kavkaz peoples. Which could to a lesser extent explain some R1a in Avars, Bulgars etc. Even Roman writers called them Avaro-Slav. They were heavily intermixed with Avars, including having an Iranian elite.

The Balkans were penetrated by numerous tribes. The Ostrogoths were Germanic and also assimilated some eastern lineages. The longest surviving Goths(the weakest and least warlike) were the Crimean Goths, who managed to survive up until assimilation by Hitlers settled modern Germans. The problem is people paint this in black and white, using modern ethno-linguistic social constructs to define the genetic landscape of the past. There is bound to be numerous fallacies and even agendas wrapped up into it. Much like you have E-V13 Serbs and E-V13 Albanians and E-V13 Levantines. You also have M458 Goths, M458 Avars, M458 Sklaveni/Venedi. These lineages were more mobile then than we are now. People try to find simple terms to broadly define things, but it sadly isn't that simple.

What we can call R1a is Central Indo European, or Corded Ware Culture. The lineage was already present simultaneously within Germanic and Slavic and even Steppe tribes, Turkic etc.

[Dibran]

I understand what I am saying sounds radically wrong but is correct.

Lol. its not though hahaha. If you belong to the same recent TMRCA yea, then I would agree with your approach. It is excluding the other 99 percent of genetic relatedness via the autosomal profile which you seem to neglect. That would be actual incest. Also, if you go far back enough your ancestors were just hunting some animals for food dying at the age of 30. Tribes are formed out of peoples with various origins, based on common language, culture, beliefs etc. Entirely social constructs. However, these social constructs give way to genetic variances that defined ethnic breakdowns. A sort of manipulated evolution if you will. The very fact Albanians were Muslims and Catholics and not Orthodox is what led to the greatly identifable genetic signature within them. This is why if your paternal line is "Albanian" but you're actually genetically and culturally a Slav, your still just a Slav at that point. Because your Y-DNA was some dumb cave man before all of this. Thats the ignorance with the whole Haplogroup="insert tribe here". Because your using the same ethno-linguistic social constructs to define you, whilst neglecting that your autosomal profile is a huge factor and result of the social construct you're apart of.

If J2b Albanian marries a Somali woman, and 1000 years later they are all Somali J2b. It doesn't make them Albanian. It makes their earliest paternal ancestor, who is just one in an even longer line of ancestors, an Albanian. The person is still a Somali. Such is the case because of his autosomal signature, and ethno-linguistic umbrella he subscribes to.

[Drawing-slim]

No dude. Just, no lol. You don't understand how it exactly works. 7 plus generation and theres no relation. So by your reaonsing. Marrying your 2nd or 3rd cousin is ok if they don't share your Ydna through their father? Thats insanity. incest goes by actual BLOOD relation, through your entire genome. Haplogroups also have clades with splits in ancestors. If you married a girl who belonged to a father who belonged to your defining subclade, then yea, thats incest. Not everyone in a given haplogroup is related. They are only broadly related millennia ago.If skenderg’s son married a women whom her father had same Ydna as skenderbeg, regardless of how many centuries and distance apart, that would be incest on a grander scope.
Which is why I say majority of people are mentally sick, literally.

[Dibran]

If skenderg’s son married a women whom her father had same Ydna as skenderbeg, regardless of how many centuries and distance apart, that would be incest on a grander scope.
Which is why I say majority of people are mentally sick, literally.

Its not though. Go and dick down your second cousin. Just name him Quazi for me when he comes out all hunched back lol.

[Drawing-slim]

Its not though. Go and dick down your second cousin. Just name him Quazi for me when he comes out all hunched back lol.This is faggot talk you doing now. Stop it cuz I’m perfectly capable of insults too.
And I’m not implying that fucking second cousins it’s not incest, you assuming I don’t know what autosomal dna is.
I know what you brain is thinking but I also understand why you fail to see my point, that’s perhaps that you’re a product of incest your parents committed by most likely both coming from same paternal dna, which proves my point with your clouded mind.

[cosmoo]

Yeah, Goths and Normans carried a bunch of R1a aswell. They were mainly I1, followed by R1b & R1a.
Preliminary results and hints point out to the fact that East Germanic tribes were rather devoid of R1 as a whole.

[Dibran]

This is faggot talk you doing now. Stop it cuz I’m perfectly capable of insults too.
And I’m not implying that fucking second cousins it’s not incest, you assuming I don’t know what autosomal dna is.
I know what you brain is thinking but I also understand why you fail to see my point, that’s perhaps that you’re a product of incest your parents committed by most likely both coming from same paternal dna, which proves my point with your clouded mind.

Watch your mouth. You said it not me. You said autosomal relation doesnt mean shit, and that haplogroups being the same are incest. Autsomal relation IS incest. You're retarded. Go inbreed some more.

[Drawing-slim]

Watch your mouth. You said it not me. You said autosomal relation doesnt mean shit, and that haplogroups being the same are incest. Autsomal relation IS incest. You're retarded. Go inbreed some more.No, I said to lucia that autosomal dna it’s not important to most members on TA in comparison to Ydna. You see? a man is what he thinks, and in your twisted clouded mind due to incest you thought I was promoting cousin fucking when in fact I clearly grasp higher morality to consider incest even a derision of paternal lineage of a couple having kids. Like, most likely in your case,lol

[Dibran]

No, I said to lucia that autosomal dna it’s not important to most members on TA in comparison to Ydna. You see? a man is what he thinks, and in your twisted clouded mind due to incest you thought I was promoting cousin fucking when in fact I clearly grasp higher morality to consider incest even a derision of paternal lineage of a couple having kids. Like, most likely in your case,lol

You literally argued with me that marrying a girl from a father with the same haplo(even Milennia apart) is more incestuous than being autosomally related. Using logic here, in your own words, a 2nd cousin(autosomally related yet possibly not paternally) is less incestuous than marrying a girl from say a Ukrainian family, who belongs to I2a1, but so happens to be 900 years apart from your most recent ancestor(this is more incestuous based upon your own words). Hence my Quazimodo comment. So stop with the red herrings. It doesn't take a rocket scientists to put together what you are saying.

If marrying a girl whose Ydna is 1000 years apart from you is more incestuous than having actual autosomal shared DNA in recent generations is not, then what do you suppose someone will make of such an unscientific approach to population genetics?

Higher morality. right, says the guy who constantly talks about drinking and fucking too many bitches.

Chances are if you and the YDNA the girl has is current SNP markers, then yea its incest. 2000 year break from her fathers recent ancestor and yours? thats not incest, especially when you think actual genomic relation via autosomal profil is "less" important in determining genetic relatedness.

You know fuck all about the way genetics actually works with regards to relation. There are numerous factors you're neglecting. Not like you or me have to worry about that. Our Y-DNA aint common anyway, if you're planning on marrying an Albanian that is.

[Drawing-slim]

You literally argued with me that marrying a girl from a father with the same haplo(even Milennia apart) is more incestuous than being autosomally related. Using logic here, in your own words, a 2nd cousin(autosomally related yet possibly not paternally) is less incestuous than marrying a girl from say a Ukrainian family, who belongs to I2a1, but so happens to be 900 years apart from your most recent ancestor(this is more incestuous based upon your own words). Hence my Quazimodo comment. So stop with the red herrings, and misdirects. It doesn't take a rocket scientists to put together what you are saying.

If marrying a girl whose Ydna is 1000 years apart from you is more incestuous than having actual autosomal shared DNA in recent generations is not, then what do you suppose someone will make of such an unscientific approach to population genetics?

Higher morality. right, says the guy who constantly talks about drinking and fucking too many bitches.

Chances are if you and the YDNA the girl has is current SNP markers, then yea its incest. 2000 year break from her fathers recent ancestor and yours? thats not incest, especially when you think actual genomic relation via autosomal profil is "less" important in determining genetic relatedness.

You know fuck all about the way genetics actually works with regards to relation. Theres numerous factors your neglecting. Not like you or me have to worry about that. Our Y-DNA aint common anyway, if you're planning on marrying an Albanian that is.

lol, show me where I said fucking second cousins or any cousins is cool!
Your clouded mind is fucking with you by jumping into twisted delusional conclusions buddy, as I explained couod be due to incest.
I also said it is my opinion that’s precisely why most people are medically sick in the head due to this incest that has occurred for thousands of years amongst humans.

Y-dna represent nature behavior character of a person so when a couple who both derive from the same paternal lineage will affect the mind and behavior of their kids. Will fuck them up and confuse them internally throughout their existence imo.

[Dibran]

lol, show me where I said fucking second cousins or any cousins is cool!
Your clouded mind is fucking with you by jumping into twisted delusional conclusions buddy, as I explained couod be due to incest.
I also said it is my opinion that’s precisely why most people are medically sick in the head due to this incest that has occurred for thousands of years amongst humans.

Y-dna represent nature behavior character of a person so when a couple who both derive from the same paternal lineage will affect the mind and behavior of their kids. Will fuck them up and confuse them internally throughout their existence imo.

Again red herrings. Quit it. Read between the lines, you don't have to say it. Its implied by your lack of knowledge with genetics. Hence my Quazimodo comment(which was a jest poking). You initiating a red herring is trying to detract from the actual subject. You explaining how its more incestuous to marry a girl from the same haplo(millenia apart) than autosomal relatedness. Again, can you provide the actual science to back the claim that its more incestuous if I married a girl whose father was R1a-M458 l1029, and I am(hypothetically speaking) M458-YP515. Please tell me how that is more incestuous than a girl who shares a chunk of DNA with you? no one is arguing whether you would do it .

All your claims are relevant if say you and the girls father had a TMRCA of 100-500 years. If you belong to two completely different terminal SNPs, sharing the same macro-group has no effect what so ever given the passage of time. Technically we are all fucking related if you go back far enough. This is what I mean. you don't seem to understand population genetics. Even Haplogroups are related to eachother(themselves branches of another haplogroup).

[Drawing-slim]

You literally argued with me that marrying a girl from a father with the same haplo(even Milennia apart) is more incestuous than being autosomally related. Using logic here, in your own words, a 2nd cousin(autosomally related yet possibly not paternally) is less incestuous than marrying a girl from say a Ukrainian family, who belongs to I2a1, but so happens to be 900 years apart from your most recent ancestor(this is more incestuous based upon your own words). Hence my Quazimodo comment. So stop with the red herrings. It doesn't take a rocket scientists to put together what you are saying.

If marrying a girl whose Ydna is 1000 years apart from you is more incestuous than having actual autosomal shared DNA in recent generations is not, then what do you suppose someone will make of such an unscientific approach to population genetics?

Higher morality. right, says the guy who constantly talks about drinking and fucking too many bitches.

Chances are if you and the YDNA the girl has is current SNP markers, then yea its incest. 2000 year break from her fathers recent ancestor and yours? thats not incest, especially when you think actual genomic relation via autosomal profil is "less" important in determining genetic relatedness.

You know fuck all about the way genetics actually works with regards to relation. There are numerous factors you're neglecting. Not like you or me have to worry about that. Our Y-DNA aint common anyway, if you're planning on marrying an Albanian that is.

Anyway, next time don’t jump like a triggered freak on crack when you don’t understand the point I was making.
It has nothing to do with “shame on you kinda incest” and ought not to be confused as promotion of autosomal incest cousin fucking, is just sadly silly you would think that.
The idea of fucking close cousins makes me wanna throw up cuz evolution has treated me right on to perfection that’s cuz the smell of close cousins should have same smell as your parents and brothers & sisters, and that should make any normal human being disgusted to even think that.
What’s dangerous incest is the one I am describing because physically you have no way of knowing and the fermions of the opposite sex in this case are perfectly normal to draw two people together to procreate with each other without knowing they’re technically committing incest.

[Crimean]

haplogroups have nothing to do with autosomal genetics. It has no influence on autosomal. If this were the case, R1b Africans wouldnt be African. Regardless where it originates, you're just a Slavo-Mongoloid racist piece of shit. Ironic if you ask me. Like that turd Fractal from the ass crack of India who thinks hes Aryan and above other races/

Albanians are the only native churkas in Europe, regardless of genetics. You are traitors people, who betrayed your neighbors, Serbians, and your Christian roots. Albanians chose to be Ottoman servants, and now are degraded people because of Islam and spoiled genetics. Nobody can point your country instantly on the map, and most of TA Albanians post from USA and other Western countries, because it's nearly impossible to live in Albania.
And yes, Turkic-Slavic R1a > Middle-Eastern J2.

[Fractal]

No dude. Just, no lol. You don't understand how it exactly works. 7 plus generation and theres no relation. So by your reaonsing. Marrying your 2nd or 3rd cousin is ok if they don't share your Ydna through their father? Thats insanity. incest goes by actual BLOOD relation, through your entire genome. Haplogroups also have clades with splits in ancestors. If you married a girl who belonged to a father who belonged to your defining subclade, then yea, thats incest. Not everyone in a given haplogroup is related. They are only broadly related millennia ago.

Aryan is an ethnolinguistic term, you low IQ subhuman Albanian plumber. And Indians were the first to use, not Europeans, not africans, not even Persians. INDIANS.

Albanians are considered garbage here like all SOuthern Europeans and Yugoslavs

[Bosniensis]

OP is talking about Slavic claims on Illyrians.

I've taught that we are Illyrians (Slavs) until I've investigated little further so I attacked many Albanians....

But after I've checked 100's of Thracian words, toponyms I've figured out that so called "Slavic" people are in fact Thracians.

After all that's why we South Slavs, almost all score 1. Bulgaria 2. Romania etc...

I believe in time it shall be all revealed, but important thing is that we have started looking after our Dark Age History.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Who wants to have Illyrian Y-DNA? I only see people who struggle with their identity wanting to be associated with them.

[Bosniensis]

Who wants to have Illyrian Y-DNA? I only see people who struggle with their identity wanting to be associated with them.

Illyrians legalized Christianity in Europe.

Illyrians invented first High Quality naval Ships called Liburnias.

Illyrians invented piracy xD

[Tauromachos]

One of the oldest E-V13 samples comes from Greece"Dimini"

[Tauromachos]

Illyrians were Hallstatt Aryan people that taught Greeks and Anatolians some European craft skills.That's why.

Haltstatt Armenoids and Anadolids :cool:

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Illyrians legalized Christianity in Europe.

Illyrians invented first High Quality naval Ships called Liburnias.

Illyrians invented piracy xD

Illyrians have zero relevance on the historical panorama of Europe. They are so "important" that we barely know anything concrete about them, basing nearly everything on assumptions.

[Bosniensis]

Illyrians have zero relevance on the historical panorama of Europe. They are so "important" that we barely know anything concrete about them, basing nearly everything on assumptions.

They spoke Latin language.

After Latin was discarded in 6th century, they started using their own language which was never used in official correspondence within the Empire.

Constantine the Great was Illyrian
Trajan Decius was Illyrian
Diocletian was Illyrian
Constantius Chloros was Illyrian
etc..

They were all Dinarids like modern people of western balkans, but genetically they were mostly closely related to Albanians
while other people of Balkans are Thracians, Illyrians, Slavs all mixed.

Illyrians were cousins to Greeks (just like modern Albanians are) who were somewhat inferior in comparison to Greeks in Dark Ages, who got more advanced after Roman advance in that region.

[Nilotik]

Because Y-dna is everything, literally everything. Autosomal dna represents your fool blood but Ydna represents your fate, your nature.
IMO marrying within the same Ydna is incest, even if you are 10k years apart.

xD
I wouldn't be surprised if someone really thought like that.

[Nilotik]

It's actually looking like J2b2 might be the defining Albanian haplogroup.

Yeah. Plus E-V13 for example is quite frequent in our neighbors too, while J2b2 is extremely low outside of Albanian areas.

[Rethel]

Only real, relevabnt Illirian are some clades of R1.

EV13 and I2 are pre-Illirian. J2 - pre- or post-.

[Fustan]

Yeah. Plus E-V13 for example is quite frequent in our neighbors too, while J2b2 is extremely low outside of Albanian areas.

Interesting that J2b2 is more common in Italians than balkan slavs
https://i.imgur.com/zwDCsob.png

Tho J2b2 isn't totally alien among balkan slavs, but they belong to the PH1601 clade (different from the PH1751 clade of Albanians)

[Bosniensis]

Only real, relevabnt Illirian are some clades of R1.

EV13 and I2 are pre-Illirian.

Illyrians, Greeks, Thracians, Romans were NOT indo-european people.

It has been said so just for the reason you guys not get offended.

R1 people invaded Europe, Won the Europe and still Rule the Europe.

[Nilotik]

Interesting that J2b2 is more common in Italians than balkan slavs
https://i.imgur.com/zwDCsob.png

Tho J2b2 isn't totally alien among balkan slavs, but they belong to the PH1601 clade (different from the PH1751 clade of Albanians)

I've never seen this map before, really cool. The distribution seems to correspond with ancient Mediterranean high cultures (not to be mistaken with 420 culture, albeit we got that going on for us as well). It certainly was more widespread prior to Slavic migrations. It says a lot about the spirit of J2b2 that it didn't get absorbed en masse by Balkan Slavs the way other haplogroups did. A truly majestic Y-DNA. Ti J2b2 më jep nder, më jep emrin Shqiptar.

[Drawing-slim]

Aryan is an ethnolinguistic term, you low IQ subhuman Albanian plumber. And Indians were the first to use, not Europeans, not africans, not even Persians. INDIANS.

Albanians are considered garbage here like all SOuthern Europeans and Yugoslavs
Ahaha, You fucking ugly insect. Indians are considered the ugliest people in US, at the very bottom. It’s a fact.

[Fractal]

Ahaha, You fucking ugly insect. Indians are considered the ugliest people in US, at the very bottom. It’s a fact.

More descriptive term for a low IQ vile race like Albanians or Yugoslavs.

Indians are seen as some of the least troublesome and most productive immigrants in the USA. Get real.

Get back to plumbing our hotels.

[Wrong]

Interesting that J2b2 is more common in Italians than balkan slavs
https://i.imgur.com/zwDCsob.png

Tho J2b2 isn't totally alien among balkan slavs, but they belong to the PH1601 clade (different from the PH1751 clade of Albanians)
Is there a LEGEND of percentage graphs for this map?

Grey zones = Not tested

It's the true Shqiptar yDNA.

[Lavrentis]

Illyrians were cousins to Greeks (just like modern Albanians are) who were somewhat inferior in comparison to Greeks in Dark Ages, who got more advanced after Roman advance in that region.

Illyrians weren't anything like that, they barely had contact with Greeks and that contact was minimal.

Arvanites might be cousins of Albanians, but not all Greeks.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bosniensis]

Illyrians weren't anything like that, they barely had contact with Greeks and that contact was minimal.

Arvanites might be cousins of Albanians, but not all Greeks.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But Arvanties are Hellenized Albanians...

Am I right?

Greeks despised Illyrians I agree, but still you were related.

[Lavrentis]

But Arvanties are Hellenized Albanians...

Am I right?

Yes. At least that's where sources and various researches lead us


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rethel]

Illyrians, Greeks, Thracians, Romans were NOT indo-european people.

:picard2:

[Kelmendasi]

One of the oldest E-V13 samples comes from Greece"Dimini"
Where do you see this?

[Kelmendasi]

Aryan is an ethnolinguistic term, you low IQ subhuman Albanian plumber. And Indians were the first to use, not Europeans, not africans, not even Persians. INDIANS.

Albanians are considered garbage here like all SOuthern Europeans and Yugoslavs
Nobody was talking to you, you speng.

[HERK]

More descriptive term for a low IQ vile race like Albanians or Yugoslavs.

Indians are seen as some of the least troublesome and most productive immigrants in the USA. Get real.

Get back to plumbing our hotels.

Do you fucking realise how ugly your race is???? if someone unwillingly sent me to India i would legit die instantly of street shit infections! Where the fuck do you get the courage to come and insult someone when you have taken the fucking cows for God and have people born with 3 heads all around India?

And yeah, show bobs and vagin. INDIA SUPER POWER BY 2020.

[Nilotik]

And yeah, show bobs and vagin. INDIA SUPER POWER BY 2020.
Holy shit xD dead

[Drawing-slim]

xD
I wouldn't be surprised if someone really thought like that.
Yup.
So a quick recap of my theory; Y-dna is the unchanchable signature of your personality nature character behavior, and even 10k years apart this changes nothing between two people with same marker.
It’s exactly why some couples “Click” at first encounter, they “finish each other sentences” within days of being together. Incest in technical sense, because both derive from same Ydna marker man, therefor have same personality and click, their children are product of incest.

[Babak]

Yup.
So a quick recap of my theory; Y-dna is the unchanchable signature of your personality nature character behavior, and even 10k years apart this changes nothing between two people with same marker.
It’s exactly why some couples “Click” at first encounter, they “finish each other sentences” within days of being together. Incest in technical sense, because both derive from same Ydna marker man, therefor have same personality and click, their children are product of incest.

Holy shit lol

[brennus dux gallorum]

Illyrians were IE, so their haplogroup was obviously a R1a, except of the case that the "Centum R1b theory" is right, as they were IE

[Kelmendasi]

Illyrians were IE, so their haplogroup was obviously a R1a, except of the case that the "Centum R1b theory" is right, as they were IE
Illyrians were most probably R1b and not R1a as shown by the R1b-Z2103 sample from Vucedol, they also carried J2b2-L283 as shown by the proto-Illyrian sample and later absorbed E-V13. Albanians are Satem and are dominant in R1b and not R1a when it comes to R1

[brennus dux gallorum]

Illyrians were most probably R1b and not R1a as shown by the R1b-Z2103 sample from Vucedol, they also carried J2b2-L283 as shown by the proto-Illyrian sample and later absorbed E-V13. Albanians are Satem and are dominant in R1b and not R1a when it comes to R1

then it may satemised later, but it's originated from a centum language. then r1b makes sense

As for E-V13 and J2, i don't think they are even originated from IE people, they are neolithic pre-IE

[Kelmendasi]

then it may satemised later, but it's originated from a centum language. then r1b makes sense

As for E-V13, i don't think it is even originated from IE people
There is a chance of it being Satemized. E-V13 originates in the Balkans during either the Neolithic or really early Bronze Age

[Laberia]

https://video.sekindo.com/uploads/video/users/origin/24271/video1511884110/vid5a329a389bdf5452089029.jpg