Balkan Cultural/Genetic Divisions

[Stears]

Yet again, the history of Europe seem to start somewhere around the 1000's and ends with WW2. There is nothing prior to that I guess? The only division of "east and west" before somewhere late in the 1800's was just religion. Very misleading as well because protestantism came later and the divide between protestants and catholics caused a lot more wars/ deaths and suffering than the divide between the so-called "protestant-catholic" western world (how can you even justify uniting those two sects???) and the eastern orthodox world. If that's the standard as well then Greece is most definitely eastern whilst Poland and the baltic countries + Estonia are western. So I can ask you this, at least. What makes Greece western? What defines the "eastern sphere"?

Hello Romanian monkey! Why are you so ashamed of your semi-asian orthodox heritage ?

How many posts will you try to erase massive civilisational differences between western christian and orthodox world ? :))))
I'm afraid, it will be hard.

[CommonSense]

You are not a serious person. Repeating like a parrot the same thing without explaining it, basically is trolling.I am still waiting that you explain your strange theory that Geg Albanians are not Albanians.
BTW, how do you explain the historical fact that before the Congres of Berlin Albanians were the majority of population in what is called today south servia, Nish, Toplica, etc? What the Ottoman defters says about this?
1937
Vaso Cubrilovic:
The Expulsion of the Albanians - Memorandum

Source:
[Taken from Iseljavanje Arnauta. Manuscript in the Institute of Military History of the Yugoslav People's Army (Vojno Istorijski Institut JNA). Archives of the former Yugoslav Army (Arhiv Bivše Jugoslovenske Vojske), Belgrade, 7 March 1937, No. 2, Fasc. 4, Box 69, 19 pp. Retranslated from the Serbo-Croatian by Robert Elsie, on the basis of an existing English version. First published in R. Elsie, Gathering Clouds: the Roots of Ethnic Cleansing in Kosovo and Macedonia, Dukagjini Balkan Books (Peja 2002), p. 97-130.]

How do you explain all this? And i am not talking here about what we call today Kosova, but about south servia.

What does any of that have to do with Dečani chrysobulls? Yes, Albanians did live in some parts of Southern Serbia, though not around the area of Niš, the city you desire so much. All of them left and settled in Kosovo. So what?

[Vožd]

Wrong. There were Serbians even in Budapest
Yes, but not in significant number, and reason is Ottoman arrival.


and the Serbians were majority in the ottoman-occupied Hungary. Deal with it.
Lol what you talking about.
Serbs join Austrian army against Ottomans. In today Vojvodina Serbs has own military units during 4 centuries, one of most famous is Šajkaši:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0ajka%C5%A1i


Wrong.
Than what?


Hungarian conquerors already had other haplogroups, like the R1b and I2, whent hey arrive to the Carpathian Basin. They were not exclusively N1c. YOu are ignorant in Hungarian ethnogenesis.
Not exclusively, but they had to have more greater.



The N in Serbia is not finnougric type. Perhaps it is Turkish ? :)))
N in Serbia is Montenegrin origin.

[CommonSense]

It is Serbs who united with Ottomans against European interests. It is Serbs who benefited most from Ottoman conquest of Balkans by expanding their territory 3 fold, and their territorial ambitions 6 fold.

Serbian history is built on unverified fantasies of which Kosova and Montenegro are 2 examples.

Serbs betrayed Albanians, Hungarians, and Romanians in their fight against the Ottomans. It is Serbian betrayal that precipitated further Ottoman conquest. Serbs were rewarded throughout the entirety of Ottoman occupation, while Albanians were persecuted for their resistance. Don't speak of things you don't know.


First, Serbs have to explain to us how Albanians spread all the way to Nish? 640 Albanian Villages in the Sinxhak of Nish, as well as the majority of the city of Nish itself. 2,000,000 Albanians in Turkey today descend from the ethnic cleansing that took place in Southern Serbia.

It is also amazing how when we have genetics, it is obvious Serbs were never in Kosova. It is the bullshit of Serbian propaganda to assume Kosova as the "cradle of their civilization." Serbs were never in Kosova.

They did this even with Montenegro by making them "Spartan Serbs". "The best of all Serbs." "Every Serb descends from Montenegro." Giving Montenegro this ridiculous importance to Serbdom. Reality is Montenegrins are not Serbs genetically or culturally. They are not even Slavic. Montenegro is Serbian expansionism.
The same thing they did with Montenegro they want to do with Kosova. "Cradle of our civilization" , "Where Serbian culture come from". You have nothing to do with Kosova except in your propaganda books. Looking at genetics, it is very obvious.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/sq/0/0c/Sanxhaku_ne_kosove.JPG

1. There were no Serbian ethnic interests back then. No ethnic group had them, it's something which developed much later on. This argument is bogus because it's based on an anachronism which shows you have no proper knowledge of historical research. We didn't expand our territory, because it ceased to exist. The people who emigrated would've preferred to stay in their homes, but they had to leave in order to avoid a terrible fate. Could you go back in time, look all those young men and women who were taken as slaves by the Ottomans and tell them their people are BENEFITING from it? Lmao

2.Betrayed? Since when were we allies with Hungarians and Romanians before then? Sigismund certainly didn't consider this betrayal as Stefan Lazarevic became one of his most trusted men just a decade later. I guess you know better than he does.

3. Read my previous posts. Also the immediate area around Nish (sanjak is a much larger term) had a christian majority. There were many revolts against the Turkish rule there in the 19th century.
Many prominent Serbian figures both past and present descend from Montengro. There were countless waves of immigrants from that land. Even today many Montenegrins come to live in Belgrade. There never was any seperate Montenegrin ethnicity before Djilas and the communists did their dirty work. Even today Montenegrins cluster far far closer to Serbs than to Albanians on genetic tests.

[Vožd]

You are not a serious person. Repeating like a parrot the same thing without explaining it, basically is trolling.
Ofc i repeat, becaouse it is historical prove.


I am still waiting that you explain your strange theory that Geg Albanians are not Albanians.
They are Albanians ethnicaly today. But they are albanized becaouse in this regions never lived tribes with Albanian names.


BTW, how do you explain the historical fact that before the Congres of Berlin Albanians were the majority of population in what is called today south servia, Nish, Toplica, etc? What the Ottoman defters says about this?
How you explain that Serbs was/are majority in eastcentral Croatia and Bosnian Krajina?



The Expulsion of the Albanians
Yes, Albanians and other muslims expelled from Serbia after fall of Ottomans, not good, but they was Ottoman ally and enemy of today Serbia and other Balkan coalition. Same happened in Greece, Bulgaria etc.


How do you explain all this? And i am not talking here about what we call today Kosova, but about south servia.
Serbs was majority in today Kosovo, south Serbia and north Albania in middle age, but not in today Vojvodina, Bosnian Krajina, Banija etc. After Ottoman arrival, Serbs expelled on north and west, Albanians settled on north. Your religion and high birthrate helped you to spread faster.
But even in this time Albanians was not majority in Niš region (significant number yes, but not majority). Majority was Slavic islamized people.

[Vožd]

Serbian history is built on unverified fantasies of which Kosova and Montenegro are 2 examples.
Some specifically example?


Serbs betrayed Albanians, Hungarians, and Romanians in their fight against the Ottomans. It is Serbian betrayal that precipitated further Ottoman conquest. Serbs were rewarded throughout the entirety of Ottoman occupation, while Albanians were persecuted for their resistance. Don't speak of things you don't know.
Lol what you talking about. Hungarians, Romanians and especially Albanians fight also for Ottomans as well. You use 2 battle of Stefan Lazarević (as medieval vassal) for blaming Serbs, and Albanians as muslims was more significant in Ottoman spreding. You participated in suppress of anti-Ottoman rebellions also.


First, Serbs have to explain to us how Albanians spread all the way to Nish? 640 Albanian Villages in the Sinxhak of Nish, as well as the majority of the city of Nish itself. 2,000,000 Albanians in Turkey today descend from the ethnic cleansing that took place in Southern Serbia.
I explain. Prove for Albanian majority in Niš?


It is also amazing how when we have genetics, it is obvious Serbs were never in Kosova. It is the bullshit of Serbian propaganda to assume Kosova as the "cradle of their civilization." Serbs were never in Kosova.
Lol


They did this even with Montenegro by making them "Spartan Serbs". "The best of all Serbs." "Every Serb descends from Montenegro." Giving Montenegro this ridiculous importance to Serbdom. Reality is Montenegrins are not Serbs genetically or culturally. They are not even Slavic. Montenegro is Serbian expansionism.
Lool Serbs was no in Kosovo, no in Montenegro, where was Serbian medieval states than?


The same thing they did with Montenegro they want to do with Kosova. "Cradle of our civilization" , "Where Serbian culture come from". You have nothing to do with Kosova except in your propaganda books. Looking at genetics, it is very obvious.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/sq/0/0c/Sanxhaku_ne_kosove.JPG

What you try to prove with this Ottoman occupcy region?

[Laberia]

Ofc i repeat, becaouse it is historical prove.


They are Albanians ethnicaly today. But they are albanized becaouse in this regions never lived tribes with Albanian names.


How you explain that Serbs was/are majority in eastcentral Croatia and Bosnian Krajina?



Yes, Albanians and other muslims expelled from Serbia after fall of Ottomans, not good, but they was Ottoman ally and enemy of today Serbia and other Balkan coalition. Same happened in Greece, Bulgaria etc.


Serbs was majority in today Kosovo, south Serbia and north Albania in middle age, but not in today Vojvodina, Bosnian Krajina, Banija etc. After Ottoman arrival, Serbs expelled on north and west, Albanians settled on north. Your religion and high birthrate helped you to spread faster.
But even in this time Albanians was not majority in Niš region (significant number yes, but not majority). Majority was Slavic islamized people.

We don`t need words from your ass. Do you understand this?
BTW, explain this:
my question:

I am still waiting that you explain your strange theory that Geg Albanians are not Albanians.
your answer:

They are Albanians ethnicaly today. But they are albanized becaouse in this regions never lived tribes with Albanian names.

[Kelmendasi]

Ofc i repeat, becaouse it is historical prove.


They are Albanians ethnicaly today. But they are albanized becaouse in this regions never lived tribes with Albanian names.


How you explain that Serbs was/are majority in eastcentral Croatia and Bosnian Krajina?



Yes, Albanians and other muslims expelled from Serbia after fall of Ottomans, not good, but they was Ottoman ally and enemy of today Serbia and other Balkan coalition. Same happened in Greece, Bulgaria etc.


Serbs was majority in today Kosovo, south Serbia and north Albania in middle age, but not in today Vojvodina, Bosnian Krajina, Banija etc. After Ottoman arrival, Serbs expelled on north and west, Albanians settled on north. Your religion and high birthrate helped you to spread faster.
But even in this time Albanians was not majority in Niš region (significant number yes, but not majority). Majority was Slavic islamized people.
Oh lord this is the epitome of retardation, please don’t talk about north Albania when you know nothing about us or our clans

[Tooting Carmen]

Greece and Hungary are not regarded as "Balkan" in almost any sense but whatever...

They have a Balkan influence, but are certainly not wholesale Balkan nations as such.

[Laberia]

What does any of that have to do with Dečani chrysobulls? Yes, Albanians did live in some parts of Southern Serbia, though not around the area of Niš, the city you desire so much. All of them left and settled in Kosovo. So what?
You quoted my answer to Vožd and ignored my answer directed to you. Ok, no problem.

Yes, Albanians did live in some parts of Southern Serbia, though not around the area of Niš, the city you desire so much.
How do you explain this presence in this region?
And in order to answer to your post without repeating things, read THIS (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?202742-Macedonia-Should-be-Divided-between-Kosovo-Bulgaria-US-Official&p=4241951&highlight=cvijic#post4241951).

[CommonSense]

You quoted my answer to Vožd and ignored my answer directed to you. Ok, no problem.

How do you explain this presence in this region?
And in order to answer to your post without repeating things, read THIS (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?202742-Macedonia-Should-be-Divided-between-Kosovo-Bulgaria-US-Official&p=4241951&highlight=cvijic#post4241951).

I didn't not ignore you. It's not my fault you failed to notice it.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?230183-Balkan-Cultural-Genetic-Divisions&p=4894277&viewfull=1#post4894277

The link you posted mentions the sanjak of Niš. Sanjaks were administrative units, second in size and rank to vilayets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilayet_Law). The sanjak of Nis covered a larger area than the city and its surrondings. Only in some parts were Albanians the majority.
Albanians were a majority population in some areas of the Sanjak of Niš, like the Toplica region and some villages in the district of Vranje, prior to the Russo-Turkish War (1877–1878).[7]

And what does Nis have to do with ancient Illyrians? It was founded by Celts on Tribali territory.

[Laberia]

I didn't not ignore you. It's not my fault you failed to notice it.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?230183-Balkan-Cultural-Genetic-Divisions&p=4894277&viewfull=1#post4894277

The link you posted mentions the sanjak of Niš. Sanjaks were administrative units, second in size and rank to vilayets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilayet_Law). The sanjak of Nis covered a larger area than the city and its surrondings. Only in some parts were Albanians the majority.
Albanians were a majority population in some areas of the Sanjak of Niš, like the Toplica region and some villages in the district of Vranje, prior to the Russo-Turkish War (1877–1878).[7]

And what does Nis have to do with ancient Illyrians? It was founded by Celts on Tribali territory.


The Servian government confiscated all property owned by the Albanians despite the articles 35 and 39 of the "Berlin Negotiations" stipulating that the Albanians living in the regions ceded to Serbia would have the same civil rights as the Serbs.

As to the number of the Albanians inhabiting those territories, various statistics and extant documents give contradictory figures. According to a note of the administrative divisions dating from 1873, the district of the Sandjak of Niš had about 100 000 Albanians. As regards the number of refugees, the figures given by Prof. J. Cvijic for those who settled in Kosova is 30 000, that furnished by English documents, 100 000. According to Turkish sources, the number of the Albanians who were forced to leave the region amounted to 300 000.

On June 3, 1978, Rilindja (p.7), published a letter addressed by these miserable people (who were deprived of all means and many of whom were sick) to the European Powers requesting that at least a commission be set up to look into their serious problem..
(For the data concerning the Albanians of these territories, see E. PlIana, "Les raisons et Ia maniere de Ia migration des refugies albanais du territoire du Sandjak de Nish a Kosova (1877-1878)," Gjurmime Albanologjike IX 1979, Prishtine, 1980, pp. 129-156. Cf. also R. Marmullaku Albania and the Albanians , London, 1975, p. 24 (does not contain details).

About the numbers. Irst, we can not take in consideration the data published by Cvijic(servia). Because it`s like beliving the version of a serial killer about the number of his victims.
Second, we can not accept the data of the British because they, together with other Great Powers had the obligation to control that the:

the articles 35 and 39 of the "Berlin Negotiations" stipulating that the Albanians living in the regions ceded to Serbia would have the same civil rights as the Serbs.
were respected by servian governments. And they ignored this obligation written and signed by them.
Third, we have to belive here the data of Ottoman Empire, the ruling Empire for centuries in this region.

And what does Nis have to do with ancient Illyrians? It was founded by Celts on Tribali territory.
lol, seriously. Ok, let`s stay on topic. How do you explain this Albanian presence in this region?

[Vožd]

We don`t need words from your ass. Do you understand this?
BTW, explain this:
my question:

your answer:

You dont need word from my ass, but you ask me another question, so you want someting else from my ass? lol

[Vožd]

Oh lord this is the epitome of retardation, please don’t talk about north Albania when you know nothing about us or our clans

Ghegs are albanized Vlachs.

[CommonSense]

About the numbers. Irst, we can not take in consideration the data published by Cvijic(servia). Because it`s like beliving the version of a serial killer about the number of his victims.
Second, we can not accept the data of the British because they, together with other Great Powers had the obligation to control that the:

were respected by servian governments. And they ignored this obligation written and signed by them.
Third, we have to belive here the data of Ottoman Empire, the ruling Empire for centuries in this region.

lol, seriously. Ok, let`s stay on topic. How do you explain this Albanioan presence in this region?

It took you this long to reply and you add nothing new? I just said that Albanians were the majority in some parts of the sanjak. I know they got expelled. You still didn't prove that there was an Albanian majority in the city of Nis and its surrondings.
And why shouldn't we trust Cvijic? Even if every single Albanian left Serbia, the number of 300 000 is absolutely ridiculous. In the entire territory of Serbia there weren't even 1,5 million people, so how could such a tiny patch of land be inhabited by 300 000!!!!??

The Albanian presence in Southern Serbia is a consequence of Turkish rule, just like Serbian presence in territories that never belonged to the medieval Serbian states. Your people in Toplica are just as autochtonous as the Serbs in Budapest.

[Laberia]

You dont need word from my ass, but you ask me another question, so you want someting else from my ass? lol
You can continue to eat it, just don`t continue to spread here in the forum in respect to the readers.

[Laberia]

And why shouldn't we trust Cvijic?
I explained why. Because he wanted to mnimize and justify the ethnic cleansing of that territory.

The Albanian presence in Southern Serbia is a consequence of Turkish rule, just like Serbian presence in territories that never belonged to the medieval Serbian states. Your people in Toplica are just as autochtonous as the Serbs in Budapest.

When you will decide to elaborate this? Until now i have never read an serious post from a servian member. I am waiting.

[Kelmendasi]

Ghegs are albanized Vlachs.
This statement is retarded, as I said earlier, don’t talk about things you know nothing about

[Vožd]

This statement is retarded, as I said earlier, don’t talk about things you know nothing about

Do you have any historicall prove for Albanian presence in today Gheg territories?

[Kelmendasi]

Do you have any historicall prove for Albanian presence in today Gheg territories?
Lol the earliest signs of Albanians are in Gheg territory specifically around Mati. You know nothing about Ghegs as I have said before so please don’t talk as if you do.

[CommonSense]

I explained why. Because he wanted to mnimize and justify the ethnic cleansing of that territory.

When you will decide to elaborate this? Until now i have never read an serious post from a servian member. I am waiting.

I already explained it in my posts. If you aren't able to understand a process such as population migration, it isn't my fault. Many people in Serbia don't understand the Migration period and Slavic expansion either so they turn to cranks such as Deretic, just like you copy-paste random texts which have little to do with the discussion at hand.

[Laberia]

I already explained it in my posts. If you aren't able to understand a process such as population migration, it isn't my fault. Many people in Serbia don't understand the Migration period and Slavic expansion either so they turn to cranks such as Deretic, just like you copy-paste random texts which have little to do with the discussion at hand.

Where you have explained? Albanians were expelled from their land. This is an fact. Now you have to explain this theory of the migration of the Albanians.

[Laberia]

Ghegs are albanized Vlachs.
Who said this? Where you have read it? I bet that you are a montenegrin. Exist even a country named Montenegro, sometimes we forget this detail.

[CommonSense]

Where you have explained? Albanians were expelled from their land. This is an fact. Now you have to explain this theory of the migration of the Albanians.

The data in the Dečani chrysobulls show that the region was overwhelmingly Serbian. If to that you add the fact that no documents from that era mention any Albanian presence in Kosovo (not even toponyms, all villages in the monastery charters have Serbian/Slavic names) and contemporary Southern Serbia, the only explanation is that they expanded to that area as the Serbian population slowly evacuated.

[Lavrentis]

Greek mainland north and some other mainland regions are culturaly similar to Macedonia. Greek coast is culturaly similar to south Montenegro.

Please don’t talk on behalf of Greece. If some places in FYROM have similarities with Greek places, it’s because these FYROMian places had Greek influence since the Antiquity and Byzantine years. And Greece is not similar with Montenegro.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Laberia]

The data in the Dečani chrysobulls show that the region was overwhelmingly Serbian. If to that you add the fact that no documents from that era mention any Albanian presence in Kosovo (not even toponyms, all villages in the monastery charters have Serbian/Slavic names) and contemporary Southern Serbia, the only explanation is that they expanded to that area as the Serbian population slowly evacuated.

The data of the Dečani chrysobulls show christians. And remember that nobody take seriously your scholars. Belive me.

the only explanation is that they expanded to that area as the Serbian population slowly evacuated.
There was an migration of servs or not, because you are contradictory with your words?
You have the burden of prove to explain:
First, what happened to the servs, since you insist that the region was inhabitated by your people.
And second, you have to explain how this huge territory, Sandjak, Kosova, south servia became entierly or in majority inhabitated by Albanians.
This can not explained with conclusions without first elaborating your theory. And can not be explained with, i know this, or this is the only explanation. This are just your personal opinion.
Until now in this discussion we know that servia invaded Albanian territories inhabitated by Albanians. Your country paid Ottoman Empire for these territories and started an policy of ethnic cleansing from one side of the Albanian population and the colonisation of these territories with imported people. All this is documented.

[CommonSense]

The data of the Dečani chrysobulls show christians. And remember that nobody take seriously your scholars. Belive me.

There was an migration of servs or not, because you are contradictory with your words?
You have the burden of prove to explain:
First, what happened to the servs, since you insist that the region was inhabitated by your people.
And second, you have to explain how this huge territory, Sandjak, Kosova, south servia became entierly or in majority inhabitated by Albanians.
This can not explained with conclusions without first elaborating your theory. And can not be explained with, i know this, or this is the only explanation. This are just your personal opinion.
Until now in this discussion we know that servia invaded Albanian territories inhabitated by Albanians. Your country paid Ottoman Empire for these territories and started an policy of ethnic cleansing from one side of the Albanian population and the colonisation of these territories with imported people. All this is documented.

It shows only christians because the entire population of the Balkans back then was christian. The document differentiates between Serbs, Vlachs and Albanians. There is no non-Albanian scholar which has disputed the authenticity of the chrysobulls. Either find me one or stop posting on theapricity.
A migration is an organised movement that takes places in a much shorter time span. This took place over centuries and the people fled in small groups. It didn't became Albanian in a matter of day, years or even decades. In the 16th century the region was still predominantly Serbian. The demographic shift was a slow process. This isn't my personal opinion, it's a widely accepted fact.


Your country paid Ottoman Empire for these territories

With what?

[Laberia]

It shows only christians because the entire population of the Balkans back then was christian. The document differentiates between Serbs, Vlachs and Albanians. There is no non-Albanian scholar which has disputed the authenticity of the chrysobulls. Either find me one or stop posting on theapricity.
A migration is an organised movement that takes places in a much shorter time span. This took place over centuries and the people fled in small groups. It didn't became Albanian in a matter of day, years or even decades. In the 16th century the region was still predominantly Serbian. The demographic shift was a slow process. This isn't my personal opinion, it's a widely accepted fact.
By who? Start to quote some sources and credible authors. What are you waiting?



With what?
Without hesitation, Serbia applied for its first foreign loan in order to pay Turkey for the lands taken.

(https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?230183-Balkan-Cultural-Genetic-Divisions&p=4894282&viewfull=1#post4894282)

[CommonSense]

By who? Start to quote some sources and credible authors. What are you waiting?


Without hesitation, Serbia applied for its first foreign loan in order to pay Turkey for the lands taken.

(https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?230183-Balkan-Cultural-Genetic-Divisions&p=4894282&viewfull=1#post4894282)

It was illegal according to the treaty signed in Berlin for the christians to confiscate muslim property without paying them rent as compensation. Same thing happened in Montenegro, the new settlers still had to pay up. You twist historical context with every post you make.

[Laberia]

It was illegal according to the treaty signed in Berlin for the christians to confiscate muslim property without paying them rent as compensation. Same thing happened in Montenegro, the new settlers still had to pay up. You twist historical context with every post you make.

First, i don't see an answer to my first question.
Second, i quoted an servian author. I didn't twisted his words. It's you who are not correct here. He is not talking about christians and muslims. He is talking about servia and Turkey. Read carefully.

[CommonSense]

First, i don't see an answer to my first question.
Second, i quoted an servian author. I didn't twisted his words. It's you who are not correct here. He is not talking about christians and muslims. He is talking about servia and Turkey. Read carefully.

I'm not going to answer your question until you answer this. There is no non-Albanian scholar which has disputed the authenticity of the chrysobulls. Either find me one or stop posting on theapricity.

It's a translation of his text by an amatuer, the original version in Serbian isnt available online...not that it matters since the context is clear. When I said christians, I meant christian states (Serbia, Montenegro, Romania). It's very obvious what he was trying to say. The land was given to Serbia in accordance with all the major forces. The only debt Serbia had was a part of the debt the Ottoman Empire owed to other countries.

[Profileid]

Greece is from any non-geographical aspect a mediterranean, non-Balkan country


"Greece is only Balkan geographically"

[Laberia]

I'm not going to answer your question until you answer this. There is no non-Albanian scholar which has disputed the authenticity of the chrysobulls. Either find me one or stop posting on theapricity.

It's a translation of his text by an amatuer, the original version in Serbian isnt available online...not that it matters since the context is clear. When I said christians, I meant christian states (Serbia, Montenegro, Romania). It's very obvious what he was trying to say. The land was given to Serbia in accordance with all the major forces. The only debt Serbia had was a part of the debt the Ottoman Empire owed to other countries.
Why you insist to discuss about things that you have no idea?

[CommonSense]

Why you insist to discuss about things that you have no idea?

You are the one who is uninformed and uneducated. You don't know a single thing about historical research. You've never read any academic books or spoken to a professional historian in your entire life.

Here, the relevant articles of the Treaty of Berlin. Numbers 39. and 42. in particular

71429

[catgeorge]

"Greece is only Balkan geographically"

Well he's right... not much Balkan here. The villages, towns, structures is more Italian.. Balkans speak a Satem language we speak a Centum language


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVAzB8Uj0KM&t=1075s

[Laberia]

You are the one who is uninformed and uneducated. You don't know a single thing about historical research. You've never read any academic books or spoken to a professional historian in your entire life.

Here, the relevant articles of the Treaty of Berlin. Numbers 39. and 42. in particular

71429

Until now you are only repeating like a parrot the same thing. It's typical of your people. You all have a theory but you have serious difficulty to elaborate it. What's the point now? I am going to elaborate the different servian theories from one side and the Albanian position. This can be the only solution. A little bit boring because is a monolog, but since nobody from you have the intellectual capacity for an normal discussion, this is the only way.
BTW, what is the piece of paper that you posted here? Because i can not understand the language in which is written. Can you provide an professional translation?

[CommonSense]

Until now you are only repeating like a parrot the same thing. It's typical of your people. You all have a theory but you have serious difficulty to elaborate it. What's the point now? I am going to elaborate the different servian theories from one side and the Albanian position. This can be the only solution. A little bit boring because is a monolog, but since nobody from you have the intellectual capacity for an normal discussion, this is the only way.
BTW, what is the piece of paper that you posted here? Because i can not understand the language in which is written. Can you provide an professional translation?

If you want, you can try to find the english text online (I only found parts which are irrelevant). You could look it up in a library in your capital. I can even translate it for you if you want. Why must everything be explained to you as if you were a toddler?
Since you can't understand written Serbian, you will never be able to understand the history of Kosovo, Serbia and the changes that took place in those parts. Imagine if I tried to understand the history of Albania just by using texts written in Serbian and articles found on English speaking blogs. Either complete your education or give up.

[CommonSense]

If you want me to elaborate my theories, you'll have to learn my language. There are no English books that give more than a fleeting analysis on any part of Serbian history before the contemporary era.

[Laberia]

If you want, you can try to find the english text online (I only found parts which are irrelevant). You could look it up in a library in your capital. I can even translate it for you if you want. Why must everything be explained to you as if you were a toddler?
Are you a professional translator or an amateur?

Since you can't understand written Serbian, you will never be able to understand the history of Kosovo, Serbia and the changes that took place in those parts. Imagine if I tried to understand the history of Albania just by using texts written in Serbian and articles found on English speaking blogs. Either complete your education or give up.
It's not the same. Faster you understand this, better for you.
BTW, education is not something that one day can be finally completed. Every day during our life we continue to learn, at least people who have the will to learn.
You failed to quote here a single scholar in whole this discussion, a single fucking pseudo-scholar and in your country there are many. You have even an criminal organization that you call it Academy of servia. Just quote one of the many "scientific" papers that they have produced. I can't continue asking the same thing all the night. You have not the intellectual capacity for this kind of discussion. You and the rest of your people repeat like parrots in the forums the same shit that have been taught to you in your country and when someone start to make some simple questions, your reactions is scandalous, from hysterical in trolling. Just read your posts and the funny theories of Vodz.

[Profileid]

Well he's right... not much Balkan here. The villages, towns, structures is more Italian.. Balkans speak a Satem language we speak a Centum language



It's not Balkan except by geography. Yea ok that's much perfectly good sense.
If you wanna talk about Italian influence, Albania has just as much. Also the spoken language is completely irrelevant. Albanian is not even Satem.

[Laberia]

If you want me to elaborate my theories, you'll have to learn my language. There are no English books that give more than a fleeting analysis on any part of Serbian history before the contemporary era.

Of course there are translations in English of the "masterpieces" of your authors. Batakoviç for example is one of them, speaking about Albanians and servs. But it's evident that you are not informed.

[CommonSense]

Are you a professional translator or an amateur?

It's not the same. Faster you understand this, better for you.
BTW, education is not something that one day can be finally completed. Every day during our life we continue to learn, at least people who have the will to learn.
You failed to quote here a single scholar in whole this discussion, a single fucking pseudo-scholar and in your country there are many. You have even an criminal organization that you call it Academy of servia. Just quote one of the many "scientific" papers that they have produced. I can't continue asking the same thing all the night. You have not the intellectual capacity for this kind of discussion. You and the rest of your people repeat like parrots in the forums the same shit that have been taught to you in your country and when someone start to make some simple questions, your reactions is scandalous, from hysterical in trolling. Just read your posts and the funny theories of Vodz.

I can translate for you. I'm not a professional, it's up to you.
I quoted a historical source. A raw document, the base on which historial books are written. You refused to aknowlege it.
Why should I cite any Serbian historians? First of all, the only works I have are written in Serbian, a language you claim not to understand. Even if I could find a book written in English, you would cast that away as well because it was written by 'servs'. What do they teach in your country? How can you claim to know the medieval history of Kosovo when the first time the Albanian language was attested was in 1462? What written traces were left in Kosovo by Albanians during the first centuries of Turkish rule? Do your schools discuss those problems?

[Laberia]

I can translate for you. I'm not a professional, it's up to you.
I quoted a historical source. A raw document, the base on which historial books are written. You refused to aknowlege it.
Why should I cite any Serbian historians? First of all, the only works I have are written in Serbian, a language you claim not to understand. Even if I could find a book written in English, you would cast that away as well because it was written by 'servs'. What do they teach in your country? How can you claim to know the medieval history of Kosovo when the first time the Albanian language was attested was in 1462? What written traces were left in Kosovo by Albanians during the first centuries of Turkish rule? Do your schools discuss those problems?

Excuse me, what traces you want from me? I illustrated here using an servian author of how entire regions has been emptied from the native population, i.e. Albanians. You failed to explain this Albanian presence in these regions. I can not teach you how you have to discuss in a forum. You pretend that these Albanians are emigrants. This is an conclusion. Now you have to elaborate this your theory, with your words, because you have read books. You can translate something to illustrate your point from these books. Tell us, when and how happened this migration.

[CommonSense]

Excuse me, what traces you want from me? I illustrated here using an servian author of how entire regions has been emptied from the native population, i.e. Albanians. You failed to explain this Albanian presence in these regions. I can not teach you how you have to discuss in a forum. You pretend that these Albanians are emigrants. This is an conclusion. Now you have to elaborate this your theory, with your words, because you have read books. You can translate something to illustrate your point from these books. Tell us, when and how happened this migration.

It's based on documents that provide info into the demographics of Kosovo during the late middle ages. Like the Decani chrysobulls and the Defter from 1455. Also, in all the know monastery charters throught the middle ages all the place names are Serbian. If the people in Kosovo had Serbian personal names and lived in villages that also had serbian names, then the only way for the Albanians to be authochtonous is Kosovo is if they lived in the woods like wild animals until after the Turkish conquest.

[CabOOM]

It's based on documents that provide info into the demographics of Kosovo during the late middle ages. Like the Decani chrysobulls and the Defter from 1455. Also, in all the know monastery charters throught the middle ages all the place names are Serbian. If the people in Kosovo had Serbian personal names and lived in villages that also had serbian names, then the only way for the Albanians to be authochtonous is Kosovo is if they lived in the woods like wild animals until after the Turkish conquest.

Or maybe they had Serbian names as part of the policy of the Serbian Church. Or maybe the document is another bullshit spit out by the Serbian state, as so much bullshit it has spit out. Hard to keep track of Serbian bullshit. In fact, Albanians from Kosova and Montenegro had Serbian names just recently. Albanians in Montenegro still have Serbian sounding names and last names.

Explain to us how all these Albanians arrived in Nish, Toplica, Novi Pazar, etc(Southern Serbia). You are proposing all these people are recent migrants. Take your time and tell us how they came there. Your other buddy Vovzd seem to think all Northern Albanians are some kind of Vlach. As idiotic as this might even sound, it's what Serbian state propagated for the last 200 years.

[Vožd]

Or maybe they had Serbian names as part of the policy of the Serbian Church. Or maybe the document is another bullshit spit out by the Serbian state, as so much bullshit it has spit out. Hard to keep track of Serbian bullshit. In fact, Albanians from Kosova and Montenegro had Serbian names just recently. Albanians in Montenegro still have Serbian sounding names and last names.

Explain to us how all these Albanians arrived in Nish, Toplica, Novi Pazar, etc(Southern Serbia). You are proposing all these people are recent migrants. Take your time and tell us how they came there. Your other buddy Vovzd seem to think all Northern Albanians are some kind of Vlach. As idiotic as this might even sound, it's what Serbian state propagated for the last 200 years.

Serbian state dont propagated this, its mine opinion, i also think that many Serbs are serbized Vlach and mix, and other Balkan nation too.

[Laberia]

Or maybe they had Serbian names as part of the policy of the Serbian Church. Or maybe the document is another bullshit spit out by the Serbian state, as so much bullshit it has spit out. Hard to keep track of Serbian bullshit. In fact, Albanians from Kosova and Montenegro had Serbian names just recently. Albanians in Montenegro still have Serbian sounding names and last names.

Explain to us how all these Albanians arrived in Nish, Toplica, Novi Pazar, etc(Southern Serbia). You are proposing all these people are recent migrants. Take your time and tell us how they came there. Your other buddy Vovzd seem to think all Northern Albanians are some kind of Vlach. As idiotic as this might even sound, it's what Serbian state propagated for the last 200 years.

He will never explain. I tried to convince him but he obstinately refuted to elaborate his theory.

[Laberia]

Serbian state dont propagated this, its mine opinion, i also think that many Serbs are serbized Vlach and mix, and other Balkan nation too.

Thanks for sharing with us this secrets.

[CommonSense]

There are no accounts describing the way Slavs settled the Balkans. Slavic raids were mentioned, just like countless other barbarians raided before. And all of sudden the entire peninsula is divided into Sklaveniae. They even mange to take the Peloponnese. All these gaps of data are used by pseudohistorians not unlike yourselves to prove that Slavs were always living here. If you use common sense you would not need to listen to Deretic trolls. Considering all the data we know of what happened before and after, the presence of Vlachs, etc. we can assume that Slavs were a minority in the lands they settled and that they gradually assimilated other peoples and thus later became a majority.

You can use the same logic here. Before and after. There's even data that provides valuable info into demographics, toponims, onomastics to help you out. You don't to autistically copy-paste texts, just use common sense.

[CabOOM]

1. There were no Serbian ethnic interests back then. No ethnic group had them, it's something which developed much later on. This argument is bogus because it's based on an anachronism which shows you have no proper knowledge of historical research. We didn't expand our territory, because it ceased to exist. The people who emigrated would've preferred to stay in their homes, but they had to leave in order to avoid a terrible fate. Could you go back in time, look all those young men and women who were taken as slaves by the Ottomans and tell them their people are BENEFITING from it? Lmao

2.Betrayed? Since when were we allies with Hungarians and Romanians before then? Sigismund certainly didn't consider this betrayal as Stefan Lazarevic became one of his most trusted men just a decade later. I guess you know better than he does.

3. Read my previous posts. Also the immediate area around Nish (sanjak is a much larger term) had a christian majority. There were many revolts against the Turkish rule there in the 19th century.
Many prominent Serbian figures both past and present descend from Montengro. There were countless waves of immigrants from that land. Even today many Montenegrins come to live in Belgrade. There never was any seperate Montenegrin ethnicity before Djilas and the communists did their dirty work. Even today Montenegrins cluster far far closer to Serbs than to Albanians on genetic tests.

Whether there were or were not ethnic interests, does not change the fact that Serbs as an ethnicity were rewarded by the Ottomans for their betrayal. And Serbia did not act simply as a vassal state. It was a willing participator that thwarted and prevented the union of Albanian and Hungarian forces. Willing participator in assisting Ottomans while actively betraying Albanian and Hungarian forces. Willing participator in providing troops to Ottomans against Albanian and Hungarian forces. It was much more than a vassal state for the Ottomans.

What's bogus is ethnically cleansing entire territories on infatuated tales(aka. Serbian propaganda). What's bogus is claiming entire territories of people are recent migrants without any proof, and then committing acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing on these territories with the same basis. We're not even discussing how right or wrong this all is. We are simply discussing the basis. Your argument for it, essentially.

640 villages and the city of Nish itself were ethnically cleansed of Albanians. 2,000,000 Albanians in Turkey descend from these areas. This is reality.

Firstly, this Serbian propaganda about Montenegro started in the 1800's. Montenegrin settled in areas of Serbia after this period. Therefore, even if 5% of the Serbian population today descend from Montenegro, when this propaganda started it was simply not true.
Secondly, Serbia has consumed so many different kind of people. From Vlach to Albanins to Hungarian to Romanian. It is a very diverse place. If you compare Montenegrins to Southern Serbs, there will be as much similarity to them as would Albanians to them. If you compare Montenegrins to Northern Serbs, there will be as much similarity to them as Albanians to them. Everyone has relatedness to Serbs because Serbs consumed so many kinds of people, often against their will.

[CabOOM]

Serbian state dont propagated this, its mine opinion, i also think that many Serbs are serbized Vlach and mix, and other Balkan nation too.

Serbian State propagated that Northern Albanians are "Albanized Slavs" because of how similar they were to Montenegrin. In reality it is Montenegrins that have been Slavicizes

Since you've come to realization that Serbs are a mixture of different people, Albanians MUST now also come to the same realization. Sorrry bud. It is what happens when you commit crimes in the name of stupidity.

[CommonSense]

Whether there were or were not ethnic interests, does not change the fact that Serbs as an ethnicity were rewarded by the Ottomans for their betrayal. And Serbia did not act simply as a vassal state. It was a willing participator that thwarted and prevented the union of Albanian and Hungarian forces. Willing participator in assisting Ottomans while actively betraying Albanian and Hungarian forces. Willing participator in providing troops to Ottomans against Albanian and Hungarian forces. It was much more than a vassal state for the Ottomans.

What's bogus is ethnically cleansing entire territories on infatuated tales(aka. Serbian propaganda). What's bogus is claiming entire territories of people are recent migrants without any proof, and then committing acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing on these territories with the same basis. We're not even discussing how right or wrong this all is. We are simply discussing the basis. Your argument for it, essentially.

640 villages and the city of Nish itself were ethnically cleansed of Albanians. 2,000,000 Albanians in Turkey descend from these areas. This is reality.

Firstly, this Serbian propaganda about Montenegro started in the 1800's. Montenegrin settled in areas of Serbia after this period. Therefore, even if 5% of the Serbian population today descend fro Montenegro, when this propaganda started it was simply not true.
Secondly, Serbia has consumed so many different kind of people. From Vlach to Albanins to Hungarian to Romanian. It is a very diverse place. If you compare Montenegrins to Southern Serbs, there will be as much similarity to them as would Albanians to them. If you compare Montenegrins to Northern Serbs, there will be as much similarity to them as Albanians to them. Everyone has relatedness to Serbs because Serbs consumed so many kinds of people, often against their will.

Rewarded with what?

Novo Brdo was the last Serbian city to remain standing during the first invasion. In 1439 the capital of Smederevo fell and Serbia resisted until finally Novo Brdo fell in 1441. Novo Brdo was by treaty restored to the Serbs in 1443. The fortress (named in Turkish Nobırda) came under siege for forty days by the Ottomans, before capitulating and becoming occupied by the Ottomans on 1 June 1455. This event is described by Konstantin Mihailović from Ostrovica near Novo Brdo, who was taken by the Ottomans along with some 300 other boys to be trained as Janissaries. All of the higher ranking Serbian officials were executed after the castle fell, with the younger men and boys being taken captive to serve in the Ottoman Army, and some 700 young Serbian women and girls being taken to be wives to Ottoman commanders

Thanks a lot Turks. CABOOM taught me that getting yourself killed, raped and taken as a slave is a great thing. From know on I will wish that upon all Albanians. George Branković refusing to help Hunyadi due to fear of Turkish reprisal = Serbia is evil and betrayed everyone. Ok, Laberia doesnt need to tell me what they teach in your schools. It's obvious now.

Albanians were expelled from Toplica, but you expelled Serbs from Kosovo in the following decades as well. Stop acting like your hands are clean, they aren't.

http://i.imgur.com/BIMJlpt.png

Are you saying that if we weren't counted together we would plot with Hungarians? LMAO
Everyone has relatedness to Serbs because Serbs consumed so many kinds of people, often against their will. Absolutely no proof of that. Were all those Vlachs assimilated forcefully by such a small Slavic minority? There were assimilation policies in the middle ages? Give me a break...

[CabOOM]

Rewarded with what?

Novo Brdo was the last Serbian city to remain standing during the first invasion. In 1439 the capital of Smederevo fell and Serbia resisted until finally Novo Brdo fell in 1441. Novo Brdo was by treaty restored to the Serbs in 1443. The fortress (named in Turkish Nobırda) came under siege for forty days by the Ottomans, before capitulating and becoming occupied by the Ottomans on 1 June 1455. This event is described by Konstantin Mihailović from Ostrovica near Novo Brdo, who was taken by the Ottomans along with some 300 other boys to be trained as Janissaries. All of the higher ranking Serbian officials were executed after the castle fell, with the younger men and boys being taken captive to serve in the Ottoman Army, and some 700 young Serbian women and girls being taken to be wives to Ottoman commanders

Thanks a lot Turks. CABOOM taught me that getting yourself killed, raped and taken as a slave is a great thing. From know on I will wish that upon all Albanians. George Branković refusing to help Hunyadi due to fear of Turkish reprisal = Serbia is evil and betrayed everyone. Ok, Laberia doesnt need to tell me what they teach in your schools. It's obvious now.

Albanians were expelled from Toplica, but you expelled Serbs from Kosovo in the following decades as well. Stop acting like your hands are clean, they aren't.

http://i.imgur.com/BIMJlpt.png

Are you saying that if we weren't counted together we would plot with Hungarians? LMAO
Everyone has relatedness to Serbs because Serbs consumed so many kinds of people, often against their will. Absolutely no proof of that. Were all those Vlachs assimilated forcefully by such a small Slavic minority? There were assimilation policies in the middle ages? Give me a break...

Albanians didn't ethnically cleanse anyone. They thwarted your newest attempt to ethnically cleanse Kosova.

It is you people fed bullshit.

You haven't answer anything anyone said. You've simply been a parrot.

We are only discussing your justification for these crimes. Not the morality or legality of it. This is a big favor we are doing to you and you simply have no arguments.

From what I've seen Montenegrins cluster between Albanians and Herzegovina, with high IBD sharing between Montenegrins and Albanians. You can't bullshit DNA. That map is an attempt to bullshit DNA by making Montenegrins and Serbians appear as one group. While Montenegro shifts Serbia south, the entirety of Serbs is much greater and shifts Montenegrins way north. DNA will eventually solve itself. No point making an argument as silly as I2a is Illyrian.

Serbs were allowed their Church during Ottoman times and were allowed to speak their language. This is how Serbianization became a thing. It was one of the "perks" Serbs had for their helping hand.

[Vožd]

Yes everything is Serbian propaganda, but do you have proves?
(prove like documents etc. not copy/paste from another forums).

[Magnolia]

Slovenia, Croatia, Hungary, Moldova, Greece are not countries I think of when "Balkans" (hardcore cultural point of view) is mentioned.

[CommonSense]

Albanians didn't ethnically cleanse anyone. They thwarted your newest attempt to ethnically cleanse Kosova.

It is you people fed bullshit.

You haven't answer anything anyone said. You've simply been a parrot.

We are only discussing your justification for these crimes. Not the morality or legality of it. This is a big favor we are doing to you and you simply have no arguments.

From what I've seen Montenegrins cluster between Albanians and Herzegovina, with high IBD sharing between Montenegrins and Albanians. You can't bullshit DNA. That map is an attempt to bullshit DNA by making Montenegrins and Serbians appear as one group. While Montenegro shifts Serbia south, the entirety of Serbs is much greater and shifts Montenegrins way north. DNA will eventually solve itself. No point making an argument as silly as I2a is Illyrian.

You're the one talking bullshit if you think that the Serbian church in the fucking middle ages cared about what names are Albanian children and villages going to have, and that Turks rewarded Serbs by killing and deporting them. I did not try to justify any crimes, mr SS, I was simply telling you and Laberia the difference between Niski sanjak and the city itself which did not have an Albanian majority.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni%C5%A1_rebellion_(1841) NO SERVS LIVED AROUND NIS. BULLSHIT, HEHE

You can't bullshit DNA. That map is an attempt to bullshit DNA by making Montenegrins and Serbians appear as one group. Serbs didn't make this map. Montenegrins, like most Balkan Slavs descend mostly from assimilated peoples. Though that assimilation took place long before any nationalist movements or firm national identities arised.

[Vožd]

Dont feed albanian trolls, no point, they ruin every thread with their anoying autohtonic bullshits.
Thread is about culture and genetic differences on Balkan, not history directly.

[CabOOM]

1You're the one talking bullshit if you think that the Serbian church in the fucking middle ages cared about what names are Albanian children and villages going to have, and that Turks rewarded Serbs by killing and deporting them. I did not try to justify any crimes, mr SS, I was simply telling you and Laberia the difference between Niski sanjak and the city itself which did not have an Albanian majority.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni%C5%A1_rebellion_(1841) NO SERVS LIVED AROUND NIS. BULLSHIT, HEHE

2You can't bullshit DNA. That map is an attempt to bullshit DNA by making Montenegrins and Serbians appear as one group. Serbs didn't make this map. Montenegrins, like most Balkan Slavs descend mostly from assimilated peoples. Though that assimilation took place long before any nationalist movements or firm national identities arised.

Serbian Church under Stefan Dusan DID attempt to Serbianize the population in the middle ages. The conflict it had with the Catholic church makes this obvious. Name changes were the primary method of doing this, as it was the Serbian states primary method of assimilation in the last 2 centuries, as is the primary method of how populations in Greece are being assimilated. It is in fact one of the primary method populations everywhere are assimilated. To deny that this has been and is a method of assimilation in every country in history, is very silly.

1. Serbia spits a lot of bullshit. By the time you unravel one bullshit, it spits out 10 more bullshit. That is why we need to stick to reality. How did these Albanians in Southern Serba arrive there? Since you are saying they are recent arrivals? Genetically, Albanians in Kosovo have a TMRCA of around 1500+ years. You can use history, genetics, or even Serbian bullshit to make your claim here. How they get there?

No-one ever said Serbs did not live in Nish. Serbs should also not assume that every Christian in southern Serbia was a Serb, regardless of what their affiliation is today.

2. No-one disputed any of this. This is deflection, however. Reality is Montenegrins are not Serbs culturally or genetically. That is not saying they are Albanians. It is simply saying they are not Serbs, nor are they Slavs.

[CommonSense]

In the 1450 letter in Slavic and Cyrillic sent to Ragusa by Skanderbeg, he was signed as "Скедерь бегь" (Skeder beg), and in 1459 as "Скендьрь бегь" (Skender beg).[9] Latinized in Barleti's version as Scanderbegi and translated into English as Skanderbeg, the combined appellative is assumed to have been a comparison of Skanderbeg's military skill to that of Alexander the Great.[18] In 1463, his name was written in Latin as Zorzi Castrioti.[19][20]

Skanderbeg wrote in all the known languages of that region, except in Albanian. Not a single document of his was written in the language of his people. Those evil Serbs led by Brankovic and the orthodox church must have put him up to it. :mad:

[CabOOM]

Dont feed albanian trolls, no point, they ruin every thread with their anoying autohtonic bullshits.
Thread is about culture and genetic differences on Balkan, not history directly.

It is you and your compatriots spiting out ideas that Albanians wronged Serbs in Kosova that started this. It is the delusion and victimization you people feed yourselves. Serbias past 2 centuries of expansionism has killed and displaced so many people in the Balkans, and not only are you people not aware of this but you have also not even paid for it.

[CabOOM]

In the 1450 letter in Slavic and Cyrillic sent to Ragusa by Skanderbeg, he was signed as "Скедерь бегь" (Skeder beg), and in 1459 as "Скендьрь бегь" (Skender beg).[9] Latinized in Barleti's version as Scanderbegi and translated into English as Skanderbeg, the combined appellative is assumed to have been a comparison of Skanderbeg's military skill to that of Alexander the Great.[18] In 1463, his name was written in Latin as Zorzi Castrioti.[19][20]

Skanderbeg wrote in all the known languages of that region, except in Albanian. Not a single document of his was written in the language of his people. Those evil Serbs led by Brankovic and the orthodox church must have put him up to it. :mad:

Why are you deflecting? You put your arguments forth, and we answered. You haven't answered anything we've asked. It is you being a troll.

[Vožd]

It is you and your compatriots spiting out ideas that Albanians wronged Serbs in Kosova that started this. It is the delusion and victimization you people feed yourselves. Serbias past 2 centuries of expansionism has killed and displaced so many people in the Balkans, and not only are you people not aware of this but you have also not even paid for it.

Or displacing of Albanians and other muslims from Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece are price for muslim/Ottoman cruelty among Christians for centuries, what about this logic?

[CabOOM]

Or displacing of Albanians and other muslims from Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece are price for muslim/Ottoman cruelty among Christians for centuries, what about this logic?

But you abused Albanian Christians as much as Albanian Muslims. You forcefully assimilated Albanian Orthodox in Kosova, Montenegro, and Macedonia. You forcefully tried to convert Albanian Catholics into Orthodox. What you did had nothing to do with Ottomans and Muslims, but everything to do with Serbian expansionism against Albanians.

This idea of "Muslims" is simply an excuse you people use.

You keep forgetting. Ottoman succeeded because of Serbs help. It is Albanians who resisted them that payed for this. Not Serbs!

[CommonSense]

3Serbian Church under Stefan Dusan DID attempt to Serbianize the population in the middle ages. The conflict it had with the Catholic church makes this obvious. Name changes were the primary method of doing this, as it was the Serbian states primary method of assimilation in the last 2 centuries, as is the primary method of how populations in Greece are being assimilated. It is in fact one of the primary method populations everywhere are assimilated. To deny that this has been and is a method of assimilation in every country in history, is very silly.

1. Serbia spits a lot of bullshit. By the time you unravel one bullshit, it spits out 10 more bullshit. That is why we need to stick to reality. How did these Albanians in Southern Serbs arrive there? Since you are saying they are recent arrivals? Genetically, Albanians in Kosovo have a TMRCA of around 1500+ years. You can use history, genetics, or even Serbian bullshit to make your claim here. How they get there?

2. No-one ever said Serbs did not live in Nish. Serbs should also not assume that every Christian in southern Serbia was a Serb, regardless of what their affiliation is today.

3. No-one disputed any of this. This is deflection, however. Reality is Montenegrins are not Serbs culturally or genetically. That is not saying they are Albanians. It is simply saying they are not Serbs, nor are they Slavs.

Montenegrins identifyed as Serbs until in communist Yugoslavia a separete identity was promoted.

You're once again wrong about the middle ages. It was the other way around. Dushan's code mentions Vlachs and Albanians only when discussing rent. There were laws already proclaimed (Decanska i Svetostefanska hrisovulja) that Serbs mustn't marry Vlachs. It's because Vlachs did not have to slave away for any feudal landlord and many peasants found that lifestyle more appeasing. Serbian rulers actually wanted to separate the communities because of that.
Which Albanian population was assimilated by Serbia in the last 2 centuries? Can you give an example. Also, stop comparing contemporary mentality to the medieval one. Religion was the only thing important back then and it wasnt tied to nationality.

[cosmoo]

I thought that by now everyone understood that "Vlach" on western Balkans was used to denote pastoralist class since the days of Dušan's Code, not to refer to some imaginary ethnicity.

Reality is Montenegrins are not Serbs culturally or genetically. That is not saying they are Albanians. It is simply saying they are not Serbs, nor are they Slavs.
Montenegrins are predominantly not of native Balkan origin, vast majority of our ancestors came during Migration Era and afterwards.

[Vožd]

What is culturaly Serbs, what Montenegrins?
30% of Montenegro declare self as Serbs, even declared Montenegrins have same language with other Serbs, same identity (names and surnames), same religion, same greater traditional characteristic (such as Slava etc.)
There is no cultural difference between Montenegrins and east Herzegovians (which are 95% Serbs).

[CabOOM]

I thought that by now everyone understood that "Vlach" on western Balkans was used to denote pastoralist class since the days of Dušan's Code, not to refer to some imaginary ethnicity.

Montenegrins are predominantly not of native Balkan origin, vast majority of our ancestors came during Migration Era and afterwards.

What are you basing this on? And who is vast majority?

[Vožd]

I thought that by now everyone understood that "Vlach" on western Balkans was used to denote pastoralist class since the days of Dušan's Code, not to refer to some imaginary ethnicity.

Sure, Vlachs in Dušan cods are sheapherds, social class, part of "sebri".

[CabOOM]

Montenegrins identifyed as Serbs until in communist Yugoslavia a separete identity was promoted.

You're once again wrong about the middle ages. It was the other way around. Dushan's code mentions Vlachs and Albanians only when discussing rent. There were laws already proclaimed (Decanska i Svetostefanska hrisovulja) that Serbs mustn't marry Vlachs. It's because Vlachs did not have to slave away for any feudal landlord and many peasants found that lifestyle more appeasing. Serbian rulers actually wanted to separate the communities because of that.
This just says, I think this and I believe that.

There are plenty of examples but I'm not a historian to have documents ready. I only read what historians write and formulate my opinions on society.

It is simple. Where are the Orthodox Albanians in Kosova? Secondly, why do Serbs from Kosova show similarity to Albanians in Kosova? (I don't mean the recent colonizers into Kosova)


Which Albanian population was assimilated by Serbia in the last 2 centuries? Can you give an example. Also, stop comparing contemporary mentality to the medieval one. Religion was the only thing important back then and it wasnt tied to nationality.

You are assuming things. If religion was the most important thing, then Serbs would not have united with the Ottomans. As would Albanians not have been protective against Slavs.

[CommonSense]

Sure, Vlachs in Dušan cods are sheapherds, social class, part of "sebri".

They weren't just shepherds. Some of they worked as caravan escorts for the Dubrovnik traders. They escorted caravans from the outskirts of Dubrovnik to the nearby trade centers (trgovi) that were usually next to mining towns in Serbia and Bosnia.

[Vožd]

It is simple. Where are the Orthodox Albanians in Kosova? Secondly, why do Serbs from Kosova show similarity to Albanians in Kosova? (I don't mean the recent colonizers into Kosova)
How you mean where are they? They never exist. Albanians come in Kosovo in 15-16th century and they are already was muslim.

[CabOOM]

How you mean where are they? They never exist. Albanians come in Kosovo in 15-16th century and they are already was muslim.

This question has been put forth 30 times now.

How did Albanians arrive in Kosova, Toplica, Nish, and Novi Pazar?

You people literally believe this without any proof. How idiotic.

[Vožd]

They weren't just shepherds. Some of they worked as caravan escorts for the Dubrovnik traders. They escorted caravans from the outskirts of Dubrovnik to the nearby trade centers (trgovi) that were usually next to mining towns in Serbia and Bosnia.

Yes, but was social class not ethnic. There is examples how some Slavic plowmans asking lords to got vlach status becaouse of better conditions as begin vlash (comparing to plowmans).

[Vožd]

This question has been put forth 30 times now.

How did Albanians arrive in Kosova, Toplica, Nish, and Novi Pazar?

You people literally believe this without any proof. How idiotic.

They settled after Serbs expelled in great migrations. Serbs who settled Croatia, west Bosnia and Pannonian regions are mostly from south, Albanians later settled empty regions. Dont you realy think Albanians lives in Niš from middle age?

[CommonSense]

This just says, I think this and I believe that.

There are plenty of examples but I'm not a historian to have documents ready. I only read what historians write and formulate my opinions on society.

It is simple. Where are the Orthodox Albanians in Kosova? Secondly, why do Serbs from Kosova show similarity to Albanians in Kosova? (I don't mean the recent colonizers into Kosova)



You are assuming things. If religion was the most important thing, then Serbs would not have united with the Ottomans. As would Albanians not have been protective against Slavs.

United..sure
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade_of_Varna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0ajka%C5%A1i
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Frontier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Serbian%E2%80%93Turkish_conflicts

Stop the autistic drivel. The only time the Serbian statesmen did not oppose the Ottomans was when the risk of their retaliation was too great.
Where are the Orthodox Albanians in Kosova? There never were any. The Kosovo Albanian christians are catholic. There was colonization in Kosovo after WW1, but that's it. That was the best the Yugoslav goverments could come up with. They didn't have a soulution to the Albanian problem. Vaso Cubrilovic, who Laberia quotes for the wrong reasons, suggested that all of the Albanians were to be evicted. Nothing was done, Yugoslavia had more pressing issues at hand (outside threats, unresolved relations with the Croats, etc).

[CommonSense]

They settled after Serbs expelled in great migrations. Serbs who settled Croatia, west Bosnia and Pannonian regions are mostly from south, Albanians later settled empty regions. Dont you realy think Albanians lives in Niš from middle age?

The area around Nis and eastern Kosovo was Triballian teritory anyway. And they were a separate ethnicity from the Illyrians.

[CabOOM]

They settled after Serbs expelled in great migrations. Serbs who settled Croatia, west Bosnia and Pannonian regions are mostly from south, Albanians later settled empty regions. Dont you realy think Albanians lives in Niš from middle age?

I think Serbs are aliens from Mars. I think they are green.

You literally just read out Serbian propaganda. lol Where is your proof man. All these Albanians in Kosova and Southern Serbia came as recent arrivals, when genetics says they are not recent arrivals.

[CabOOM]

United..sure
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade_of_Varna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0ajka%C5%A1i
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Frontier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Serbian%E2%80%93Turkish_conflicts

Stop the autistic drivel. The only time the Serbian statesmen did not oppose the Ottomans was when the risk of their retaliation was too great.
Where are the Orthodox Albanians in Kosova? There never were any. The Kosovo Albanian christians are catholic. There was colonization in Kosovo after WW1, but that's it. That was the best the Yugoslav goverments could come up with. They didn't have a soulution to the Albanian problem. Vaso Cubrilovic, who Laberia quotes for the wrong reasons, suggested that all of the Albanians were to be evicted. Nothing was done, Yugoslavia had more pressing issues at hand (outside threats, unresolved relations with the Croats, etc).

So you are admitting that Serbs aided Ottomans in conquering the Balkans.

Same question as to your compatriot. How did all these Albanians in Kosova, Toplica, Nish, and Novi Pazar get there? How crazy to believe all these people are recent migrants without any proof. And you people are even convinced it is true. It is not even an idea you put forth. The idiocy of it.

[Vožd]

I think Serbs are aliens from Mars. I think they are green.

You literally just read out Serbian propaganda. lol Where is your proof man. All these Albanians in Kosova and Southern Serbia came as recent arrivals, when genetics says they are not recent arrivals.

lol its about where is your proof?
I already put Dečani chrysobulls and Ottoman defter, but where is your proves, this is what i waiting for whole time.

[CabOOM]

The area around Nis and eastern Kosovo was Triballian teritory anyway. And they were a separate ethnicity from the Illyrians.

You are assuming things about ancient history. Serbs have nothing to do with Balkan ancient history. You are migrants from the 6'th century. You have no place in deciding who is and who isn't Albanian from the ancient people of the peninsula.

[CabOOM]

lol its about where is your proof?
I already put Dečani chrysobulls and Ottoman defter, but where is your proves, this is what i waiting for whole time.

You are saying all these people migrated there. Where is your proof?

For example: I can say South Slavs are descended from Slavic migration of the 6'th century. For this statement there is historical and genetic proof. Therefore it is a true statement.

Their presence is proof enough. It is you that is trying to prove they are not local that needs to prove they are not.

We do have genetics, you know.

[Vožd]

The area around Nis and eastern Kosovo was Triballian teritory anyway. And they were a separate ethnicity from the Illyrians.

Yes, but its irrelevant, they also claim Dardanians as Albanians and in same time also tribes from today Albania, everyone is Albanians lol

[wvwvw]

You are assuming things about ancient history. Serbs have nothing to do with Balkan ancient history. You are migrants from the 6'th century. You have no place in deciding who is and who isn't Albanian from the ancient people of the peninsula.

Weren’t you saying the other day that South Slavs are to a degree natives genetically?

[wvwvw]

Yes, but its irrelevant, they also claim Dardanians as Albanians and in same time also tribes from today Albania, everyone is Albanians lol

Every ancient is Albanian :laugh:

[Vožd]

You are saying all these people migrated there. Where is your proof?

For example: I can say South Slavs are descended from Slavic migration of the 6'th century. For this statement there is historical and genetic proof. Therefore it is a true statement.

Their presence is proof enough. It is you that is trying to prove they are not local that needs to prove they are not.

We do have genetics, you know.

My proof is Dečani chrysobulls from 14th century and Ottoman defter from 15th century, both deny Albanian significant presence in southern regions, and we talking about Albanians from 19th century.

[CabOOM]

Weren’t you saying the other day that South Slavs are to a degree natives genetically?

Of-course they are. Genetically and culturally.

Their genesis however starts with Slavs.

[wvwvw]

Of-course they are. Gentically and culturally.

Their genesis however starts with Slavs.

When does the Albanian genesis starts?

[CommonSense]

So you are admitting that Serbs aided Ottomans in conquering the Balkans.

Same question as to your compatriot. How did all these Albanians in Kosova, Toplica, Nish, and Novi Pazar get there? How crazy to believe all these people are recent migrants without any proof. And you people are even convinced it is true. It is not even an idea you put forth. The idiocy of it.

All Balkan christians were forced to serve Turks at some point. Some Bosnian regional lords actually asked for Turkish aid to settle internal strife. Poor Manuel II Palailogos had to help the Ottomas as they conquered the last Byzantine city in Asia Minor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Philadelphia
Stefan Lazarevic was not a willing vassal. After Bayezid was captured in 1402 by Timur, Lazarevic was a free man again. The Byzantine emperor gave him the title of despot and he because a trusted ally of Sigismund of Hungary. Stefan's heir Djuradj payed tribute to the Turks, but he never fought by their side. They actually conquered Serbia in 1439, before Djuradj and the crusaders pressured the Ottomans to give it back. Hunyadi's second crusade was foolish (see how the last one went in the end), of course he wasn't going to risk everything because of it.


There were plenty of Albanians in the surrounding mounts of North Albania and Montenegro. That land which the Serbs abandoned couln't just stay empty, could it?

[CabOOM]

My proof is Dečani chrysobulls from 14th century and Ottoman defter from 15th century, both deny Albanian significant presence in southern regions, and we talking about Albanians from 19th century.
I explained to your compatriot that this does not prove anyone ever migrated there. You understand? There can be a document that says I have 3 or 4 ballsacks. It would not make it true. You need proof. As I explained to your compatriot below:


It's based on documents that provide info into the demographics of Kosovo during the late middle ages. Like the Decani chrysobulls and the Defter from 1455. Also, in all the know monastery charters throught the middle ages all the place names are Serbian. If the people in Kosovo had Serbian personal names and lived in villages that also had serbian names, then the only way for the Albanians to be authochtonous is Kosovo is if they lived in the woods like wild animals until after the Turkish conquest.

Or maybe they had Serbian names as part of the policy of the Serbian Church. Or maybe the document is another bullshit spit out by the Serbian state, as so much bullshit it has spit out. Hard to keep track of Serbian bullshit. In fact, Albanians from Kosova and Montenegro had Serbian names just recently. Albanians in Montenegro still have Serbian sounding names and last names.

Explain to us how all these Albanians arrived in Nish, Toplica, Novi Pazar, etc(Southern Serbia). You are proposing all these people are recent migrants. Take your time and tell us how they came there. Your other buddy Vovzd seem to think all Northern Albanians are some kind of Vlach. As idiotic as this might even sound, it's what Serbian state propagated for the last 200 years.

[CabOOM]

When does the Albanian genesis starts?

Not with Slavs.

[Vožd]

I explained to your compatriot that this does not prove anyone ever migrated there. You understand? There can be a document that says I have 3 or 4 ballsacks. It would not make it true. You need proof. As I explained to your compatriot below:

Ok than give us prove for their presence. If they are whole time there, must be some proves?

[CabOOM]

Ok than give us prove for their presence. If they are whole time there, must be some proves?

Are you trolling? Or are you this thick. YOU have to provide proof. I explained many times why YOU have to provide proof. Because it is YOU who assumes they are not native.

[CabOOM]

Every ancient is Albanian :laugh:

Who said this?

I don't divulge myself like some retards to believe I'm some Hellene.

[Vožd]

Are you trolling? Or are you this thick. YOU have to provide proof. I explained many times why YOU have to provide proof. Because it is YOU who assumes they are not native.

loool
You claim them "autohtons" but dont have any single proves for this and you actually asking me to i give prove that they are not native ahaha holy crap.
What kind of prove you except? I prove you there was not significat number of Albanians even in today north Albania, and you talking about "Albanian autohtonic" in Niš based on muslim settled population in 19th century.
Dude you realy need stop with this autohtonic crap, searioslly.

[wvwvw]

Who said this?

I don't divulge myself like some retards to believe I'm some Hellene.

Iam Hellene because that’s all I have ever been for the past 3000 years.

You on the other hand has no continuinity with the people you claim to be your ancestors. Know the difference.

[CommonSense]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_tribes_in_Illyria

The Illyrians accompassed a great territory and they weren't isolated from the world. They mingled with plenty of other tribes, Celts were actually the one to build the cities of Nish and Singidunum (Belgrade). Illyrians were a diverse meta-ethnicity. Saying all of them were Albanian is akin to saying all Italics were Latin, Volscan, Umbrian, Samnite, etc.

[wvwvw]

loool
You claim them "autohtons" but dont have any single proves for this and you actually asking me to i give prove that they are not native ahaha holy crap.
What kind of prove you except? I prove you there was not significat number of Albanians even in today Albania, and you talking about "Albanian autohtonic" in Niš based on muslim settled population in 19th century.
Dude you realy need stop with this autohtonic crap, searioslly.

Don’t underestimate the power of Muslims to procreate rapidly.

[CommonSense]

Don’t underestimate the power of Muslims to procreate rapidly.

They'll never beat the French though :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Quebec

[CabOOM]

We have the traditional union of Serbs and Grrrrks against Albanians. Since everything has been said, we will just let others formulate their opinion instead of repeating the same thing.

[CabOOM]

Iam Hellene because that’s all I have ever been for the past 3000 years.

You on the other hand has no continuinity with the people you claim to be your ancestors. Know the difference.

Sure thing

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/4e/d4ebf623-5aa5-5878-ae56-aef7d8e67dcc/5925790c17491.image.jpg

[CabOOM]

loool
You claim them "autohtons" but dont have any single proves for this and you actually asking me to i give prove that they are not native ahaha holy crap.
What kind of prove you except? I prove you there was not significat number of Albanians even in today north Albania, and you talking about "Albanian autohtonic" in Niš based on muslim settled population in 19th century.
Dude you realy need stop with this autohtonic crap, searioslly.

Has been explained to you a hundred times on this thread alone. All that propaganda you Serbs consume makes you really thick.

[Vožd]

Has been explained to you a hundred times on this thread alone. All that propaganda you Serbs consume makes you really thick.

Sure, but what about your proves for famous "autohtonus" on these regions?

[CabOOM]

Sure, but what about your proves for famous "autohtonus" on these regions?

Listen you retard. We are there! Therefore it is YOU that needs to prove we are not. THAT is how logic works. Serbs have put forth tens of scenereos, from Caucus migration during Ottomans, to Ottoman occupation, to Vlach from Romania, to Moroccans. None of it is factual. There is always a need to prove where people have come from if you are trying to prove they are not "autochthonous." Absence of proof is not proof of the alternative.

Now, I'm not going to be like these Albanian-Turko-Gyptoid-Pontian-Vlachoids people who call themselves Grrrks to raise the Hellenes from their 2000 years of being dead.

We have genetics today! :D

Good luck with your theories Serbs, and Grrrks!

[CommonSense]

Listen you retard. We are there! Therefore it is YOU that needs to prove we are not. THAT is how logic works. Serbs have put forth tens of scenereos, from Caucus migration during Ottomans, to Ottoman occupation, to Vlach from Romania, to Moroccans. None of it is factual. There is always a need to prove where people have come from if you are trying to prove they are not "autochthonous." Absence of proof is not proof of the alternative.

Now, I'm not going to be like these Albanian-Turko-Gyptoid-Pontian-Vlachoids people who call themselves Grrrks to raise the Hellenes from their 2000 years of being dead.

We have genetics today! :D

Good luck with your theories Serbs, and Grrrks!

I actually think you're native to the Balkans, but plenty of different tribes were too. You are not the descendants of all of them though, or even most of them.

[Vožd]

Listen you retard. We are there! Therefore it is YOU that needs to prove we are not. THAT is how logic works. Serbs have put forth tens of scenereos, from Caucus migration during Ottomans, to Ottoman occupation, to Vlach from Romania, to Moroccans. None of it is factual. There is always a need to prove where people have come from if you are trying to prove they are not "autochthonous." Absence of proof is not proof of the alternative.

Now, I'm not going to be like these Albanian-Turko-Gyptoid-Pontian-Vlachoids people who call themselves Grrrks to raise the Hellenes from their 2000 years of being dead.

We have genetics today! :D

Good luck with your theories Serbs, and Grrrks!

This is not how history funcions, sorry dude, but you need proves.
I thought you "only" appropriates all Illyrians and half of Thracians, but now i realize that even Greeks are Albanians or half Albanians, good to know :D

[wvwvw]

Listen you retard. We are there! Therefore it is YOU that needs to prove we are not. THAT is how logic works. Serbs have put forth tens of scenereos, from Caucus migration during Ottomans, to Ottoman occupation, to Vlach from Romania, to Moroccans. None of it is factual. There is always a need to prove where people have come from if you are trying to prove they are not "autochthonous." Absence of proof is not proof of the alternative.

Now, I'm not going to be like these Albanian-Turko-Gyptoid-Pontian-Vlachoids people who call themselves Grrrks to raise the Hellenes from their 2000 years of being dead.

We have genetics today! :D

Good luck with your theories Serbs, and Grrrks!

Listen uneducated vlachoid. The Hellenes were never dead. The Ionians, the Macedonians, the Cretans, the Thessalians, the Pontians, the Epirotes, and a dozen other Greek tribes made up the Hellenes, and they were never ’dead’ at any time in history. Their language survived in the territories where these tribes lived precicely because they were Greek and never went extinct.

The ethnonym Hellenes only came to be associated with pagans till the Christianization of Greeks was complete but was never extinct and continued to be used along with Graikos and Romios and along the Greek tribal names.

Serbs have more continuinity with Illyrians than you do. Byzantine sources were meticulous with recording even the smallest tribe in the balkans but you are not mentioned anywhere before the 10th century. Serbs are mentioned already from the 6th century. You arrived later and assimilated the indigenous Greeks of Albania and then assimilated the invading Italians. You can absolutely cannot show continuinity with any Illyrian tribe, let alone show that you speak their language, while the Greeks can show a countless array of evidence proving the continuing existance of all the Greek tribes in roman, middle ages, ottoman and modern times.

[wvwvw]

Listen you retard. We are there! Therefore it is YOU that needs to prove we are not. THAT is how logic works. Serbs have put forth tens of scenereos, from Caucus migration during Ottomans, to Ottoman occupation, to Vlach from Romania, to Moroccans. None of it is factual. There is always a need to prove where people have come from if you are trying to prove they are not "autochthonous." Absence of proof is not proof of the alternative.

Now, I'm not going to be like these Albanian-Turko-Gyptoid-Pontian-Vlachoids people who call themselves Grrrks to raise the Hellenes from their 2000 years of being dead.

We have genetics today! :D

Good luck with your theories Serbs, and Grrrks!

And Turks are there, but they are not natives over ”there”

They are everywhere because their muslim population exploded from 10 million to 90 million and replaced the natives.

[catgeorge]

It's not Balkan except by geography. Yea ok that's much perfectly good sense.
If you wanna talk about Italian influence, Albania has just as much. Also the spoken language is completely irrelevant. Albanian is not even Satem.

Albanian vernacular is definitely Satem their alphabet is not.

[wvwvw]

This is not how history funcions, sorry dude, but you need proves.
I thought you "only" appropriates all Illyrians and half of Thracians, but now i realize that even Greeks are Albanians or half Albanians, good to know :D

The Albanian population was numerically absolutely insignificant compared to the Greek population. Like the Turks, it is only in recent times it increased significantly.

[Laberia]

Iam Hellene because that’s all I have ever been for the past 3000 years.

You on the other hand has no continuinity with the people you claim to be your ancestors. Know the difference.

You are a prosfig, an emigrant arrived from Asia Minor during the exchange of population between Turkey and Greece.

[Laberia]

There are no accounts describing the way Slavs settled the Balkans. Slavic raids were mentioned, just like countless other barbarians raided before. And all of sudden the entire peninsula is divided into Sklaveniae. They even mange to take the Peloponnese. All these gaps of data are used by pseudohistorians not unlike yourselves to prove that Slavs were always living here. If you use common sense you would not need to listen to Deretic trolls. Considering all the data we know of what happened before and after, the presence of Vlachs, etc. we can assume that Slavs were a minority in the lands they settled and that they gradually assimilated other peoples and thus later became a majority.

You can use the same logic here. Before and after. There's even data that provides valuable info into demographics, toponims, onomastics to help you out. You don't to autistically copy-paste texts, just use common sense.

Finally you have a theory. Thanks for sharing with us Makeridov.

[Laberia]

We have the traditional union of Serbs and Grrrrks against Albanians. Since everything has been said, we will just let others formulate their opinion instead of repeating the same thing.

I told you that they will always avoid a normal discussion. I know them perfectly.

[wvwvw]

You are a prosfig, an emigrant arrived from Asia Minor during the exchange of population between Turkey and Greece.

The Myceneans and Minoans were indigenous to both sides of the Aegean and both sides of the Aegean was considered Greece until 1920 when Kemal violated the treaty of Serves which had ceded the whole western coast of Anatolia to Greece, and begun ethnically cleansing the Greeks.

Where did the Shqiptaris arrive from? Who’s language they speak? Nobody knows.

[Laberia]

The Myceneans and Minoans were indigenous to both sides of the Aegean and both sides of the Aegean was considered Greece until 1920 when Kemal violated the treaty of Serves which ceded the whole western coast of Anatolia to Greece.

Where did the Shqiptaris arrive from? Who’s language they speak? Nobody knows.

You are prosfig, a Turkish sperm arrived and settled in a land that it's not yours.

[wvwvw]

You are prosfig, a Turkish sperm arrived and settled in a land that it's not yours.

Albanian projection again for the fact your ethnonym was Turkalbanian until recently.

And for the fact you arrived to Albania, to a land that wasn’t yours, after the 12th century.

Both Albania and Asia Minor have been Greek lands for millenia, for proof take a look at your museums.

[Laberia]

Albanian projection again for the fact your ethnonym was Turkalbanian until recently.

And for the fact you arrived to Albania, to a land that wasn’t yours, after the 12th century.

Both Albania and Asia Minor have been Greek lands for millenia, for proof take a look at your museums.
There is nothing projection, it's how your compatriots called your ancestors when they arrived from Asia in Europe, baptized yogurt. It's the complex of inferiority of your people and servs that must be highlighted here. You both are asiatic scums who in different periods of history settled in Europe. That's it.

[wvwvw]

There is nothing projection, it's how your compatriots called your ancestors when they arrived from Asia in Europe, baptized yogurt. It's the complex of inferiority of your people and servs that must be highlighted here. You both are asiatic scums who in different periods of history settled in Europe. That's it.

Shut up Greek sperm. Check any medieval sources and see who arrived when at which point in history. Serbs are documented extensively in Byzantine sources, Sqhiptaris are not.

[Dick]

We have genetics today! :D

Indeed we do, Serb.


I have a R1a>Y35>YP4278>YP4441-A.



Its directly ancestral branch with 1850 ybp TMRCA is in Serbia, Czech Republic, etc.:

https://yfull.com/tree/R-YP4278/

[CabOOM]

Indeed we do, Serb.

Hello, Vlach ;)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7138/7533221358_6499af7b81_b.jpg

[CabOOM]

Listen uneducated vlachoid. The Hellenes were never dead. The Ionians, the Macedonians, the Cretans, the Thessalians, the Pontians, the Epirotes, and a dozen other Greek tribes made up the Hellenes, and they were never ’dead’ at any time in history. Their language survived in the territories where these tribes lived precicely because they were Greek and never went extinct.

The ethnonym Hellenes only came to be associated with pagans till the Christianization of Greeks was complete but was never extinct and continued to be used along with Graikos and Romios and along the Greek tribal names.

Serbs have more continuinity with Illyrians than you do. Byzantine sources were meticulous with recording even the smallest tribe in the balkans but you are not mentioned anywhere before the 10th century. Serbs are mentioned already from the 6th century. You arrived later and assimilated the indigenous Greeks of Albania and then assimilated the invading Italians. You can absolutely cannot show continuinity with any Illyrian tribe, let alone show that you speak their language, while the Greeks can show a countless array of evidence proving the continuing existance of all the Greek tribes in roman, middle ages, ottoman and modern times.

Power to you, Hellenes! :D :D :D
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSI0pANRSkTPpry14LXJlckSe_pRig4E 1mQpmcGISnqtKvxQAS3


LOLLL

[Dick]

Hello, Vlach ;)



Your y-dna is more Serb/Slavic than mine. I'm jealous.


https://i.imgur.com/vqiLTFH.jpg

[CabOOM]

Your y-dna is more Serb/Slavic than mine. I'm jealous.


https://i.imgur.com/vqiLTFH.jpg

LOL :D :D :D

You are still but-hurt, Vlachboy.

Here some Grrrks that can't even wear a fustanella right.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/05/29/article-0-0524130B000005DC-399_468x376.jpg

[Dick]

Kosovo je Srbija

Your paternal lineage is a product of Serb rape.

[CabOOM]

Your paternal lineage is a product of Serb rape.

How's a Serb raping in Diber? We have historically wrecked Serbs! :D :D

This is all my family needed to kill Serbian soldiers. ;)
https://pitchforks4u.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/8/2/108282549/pitchfork_orig.jpg

[Dick]

How's a Serb raping in Diber? We have historically wrecks Serbs! :D :D



And a Serb has historically wrecked albanian vagina apparently in Diber and you're living proof.

[CabOOM]

And a Serb has historically wrecked albanian vagina apparently in Diber and you're living proof.

It is actually just not possible. So many Serbs have died in Diber, that we collected their sandals as decorations.

[Dick]

It is actually just not possible. So many Serbs have died in Diber, that we collected their sandals as decorations.

Your women also collected their sperm apparently, willingly.

[Laberia]

Shut up Greek sperm. Check any medieval sources and see who arrived when at which point in history. Serbs are documented extensively in Byzantine sources, Sqhiptaris are not.

TOP DEFINITION
Prosfig
1. A Christianized Turk who claims to be a fabricated "greek."

2. Someone who is unable to accept that their grandparents were ethnic Turks

3. Someone in their 50's who walks around with a plastic Spartan helmet and an aluminum sword yelling "300!"

Their grandparents were part of a population exchange between grease and Turkey where 1.3 million Turks of the "greek" religion were sent to grease and 500 000 "greeks" of the Muslim religion were sent to Turkey.

other forms: Prosfyg, Prosfygi, Prosfig, Prosfigi, Prosfiga, Prosfyga
You were born a Prosfig and you will die a Prosfig.
by Prosfigi June 17, 2014


You are the perfect illustration of the fact that finally after thousands of years definitively Persians won against the Greeks and settled in their land. An asiatic triumph.

[CabOOM]

Your women also collected their sperm apparently.

No just their sandals. :D :D :D LOLL

After our fathers and mothers killed professional Serbian soldiers with pitchforks.



Are you still but-hurt, Vlacho?

[Laberia]

No just their sandals. :D :D :D LOLL

After our fathers killed professional Serbian soldiers with pitchforks.



Are you still but-hurt, Vlacho?

More than 12.000 servs left their bones in Dibra. The Black Drin became red with the blood of this subhumans.

[Dick]

No just their sandals. :D :D :D LOLL

You descend from a Serb. If it wasn't for him you wouldn't be alive. have respect for him.

[CabOOM]

You descend from a Serb. If it wasn't for him you wouldn't be alive. have respect for him.



More than 12.000 servs left their bones in Dibra. The Black Drin became red with the blood of this subhumans.

[Dick]

Ja sam Srbin

more than 12.000 Serbs left their semen in albanian women as well. YOU are living PROOF. We now have genetics today as you said.

[CabOOM]

More than 12.000 servs left their bones in Dibra. The Black Drin became red with the blood of this subhumans.

Vari trapin. Jane bere edhe legenat. Legena kan qen edhe legena kan mbetur.

[Dick]

loool
You claim them "autohtons" but dont have any single proves for this and you actually asking me to i give prove that they are not native ahaha holy crap.
What kind of prove you except? I prove you there was not significat number of Albanians even in today north Albania, and you talking about "Albanian autohtonic" in Niš based on muslim settled population in 19th century.
Dude you realy need stop with this autohtonic crap, searioslly.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_tribes_in_Illyria

The Illyrians accompassed a great territory and they weren't isolated from the world. They mingled with plenty of other tribes, Celts were actually the one to build the cities of Nish and Singidunum (Belgrade). Illyrians were a diverse meta-ethnicity. Saying all of them were Albanian is akin to saying all Italics were Latin, Volscan, Umbrian, Samnite, etc.

Don't waste your time with this rapespawn Serb. He is obviously frustrated because he descends from a Serb so he has to prove how big of an albanian he is.


https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?230183-Balkan-Cultural-Genetic-Divisions&p=4895482&viewfull=1#post4895482

[CabOOM]

more than 12.000 Serbs left their semen in albanian women as well. YOU are living PROOF. We now have genetics today as you said.

Any of that kind of business would have resulted in the personal choice of jumping off this cliff. Something you Serbs can never understand.

https://i0.wp.com/cdn1.mountainsidebride.com/mtnsidebride-wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/03101002/purple-magesty-cliffside-Jay-Philbreck-cliff-side-wedding-photography-via-MountainsideBride.com_-700x466.jpg?resize=700%2C466&ssl=1

[CabOOM]

Don't waste your time with this rapespawn Serb. He is obviously frustrated because he descends from a Serb so he has to prove how big of an albanian he is.


https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?230183-Balkan-Cultural-Genetic-Divisions&p=4895482&viewfull=1#post4895482

It is myself who made my results public, you know. So others can learn about history.

As a Serb, you have a limited mental capacity to understand anything.

You still think your autosomal has no Albanian sperm. LOL

https://media.giphy.com/media/CYfzqCRbZCMEg/giphy.gif

[Dick]

Any of that kind of business would have resulted in the personal choice of jumping off this cliff. Something you Serbs can never understand.


As a Serb, you have a limited mental capacity to understand anything.

But You're more Serbian and inbred Balkano-vlachoid than I am. Tell me, I dont understand?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?230183-Balkan-Cultural-Genetic-Divisions&p=4895482&viewfull=1#post4895482

[Laberia]

I thought that by now everyone understood that "Vlach" on western Balkans was used to denote pastoralist class since the days of Dušan's Code, not to refer to some imaginary ethnicity.

Montenegrins are predominantly not of native Balkan origin, vast majority of our ancestors came during Migration Era and afterwards.

What you thought is product of your pseudo-science. Vlachs were an ethnic group, the biggest in Balkans.
You Montenegrins are basically slavised Albanians with some Vlach contributions of course.

[CabOOM]

But You're more Serbian and Balkano-vlachoid than I am. Tell me, I dont understand?

You don't because that is a incorrect statement. LOL

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/joking.gif

[Dick]

You don't because that is a incorrect statement. LOL

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/joking.gif


I have a R1a>Y35>YP4278>YP4441-A.



Its directly ancestral branch with 1850 ybp TMRCA is in Serbia, Czech Republic, etc.:

[url]https://yfull.com/tree/R-YP4278/

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?230183-Balkan-Cultural-Genetic-Divisions&p=4895482&viewfull=1#post4895482

[CabOOM]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?230183-Balkan-Cultural-Genetic-Divisions&p=4895482&viewfull=1#post4895482

Oh, man. An entire society of Idiots in Serbia.

https://media.tenor.com/images/290c16302d1e0e8803fe9bf0b06dac70/tenor.gif

[Dick]

Oh, man. An entire society of Idiots in Serbia.



But we have genetic PROOF! it's YOU! You kept asking Vozd and Commonsense for proof meanwhile you can't even handle the PROOF!(YOU)

I actually feel sorry for you. Must suck to know you descend from an ethnicity you despise hence your staunch chauvinism.

[CabOOM]

But we have genetic PROOF! it's YOU! You kept asking Vozd and Commonsense for proof meanwhile you can't even handle the PROOF!(YOU)

I actually feel sorry for you. Must suck to know you descend from an ethnicity you despise.

You don't even know what you have proof of. I don't despise Serbs. I don't hate or dislike people for no reason.

It is kind of pointless with you.

Vlach-boy!

[Laberia]

more than 12.000 Serbs left their semen in albanian women as well. YOU are living PROOF. We now have genetics today as you said.
Куп' се, бер' се, коло игра

да дочека Сали агу,

Сали агу дику нашу!

...

Сали ага проговара:

"Сад ми душа бајрам има

кад ми млада коло води".


hehehehe

[Dick]

I don't despise Serbs.

This thread says otherwise. I wrecked you so hard in this thread just like that Serb that wrecked your grandma's albanian pussy.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

Regardless of your background you should all be supporting Stipe Miocic this Saturday over a guy who has 'jumped the line' just cuz the UFC doesn't respect its own rankings.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiXMCMxVAHA

[CabOOM]

This thread says otherwise. I wrecked you so hard in this thread just like that Serb that wrecked your grandma's albanian pussy.

You are misunderstanding how this conversation went down.

https://i0.wp.com/media.giphy.com/media/26tn8SCj1y4QgATnO/giphy.gif?resize=640%2C640&ssl=1

[wvwvw]

TOP DEFINITION
Prosfig
1. A Christianized Turk who claims to be a fabricated "greek."

You are the perfect illustration of the fact that finally after thousands of years definitively Persians won against the Greeks and settled in their land. An asiatic triumph.

No such thing as a Christianized Turk. The Christians of Turkey were either Greeks of the Greek Orthodox faith, Armenians of the Monophysite Armenian faith or Assyrians of the Syrian rite.

All of these spoke difference languages. Assyrians speak Aramaic and Armenians Armenian. The rest was Muslims and concersion to Christianity was punishable by death. Like I said, the Greeks of Asia Minor document an uninterrupted presence there. Where is the continuinity of Albanians with the people they claim to be their ancestors?

The Persians and the Kurds were in Central and Eastern Anatolia, not in Western Anatolia where Greeks were. Western Anatolia was Greek land with no Persian presence there. Assyrians lived in the South, and only Cappadocia was mixed where 3 distinct groups lived the Greeks/Greco-Galatians, the Armenians and the Leykosyrians/Persians.

The Turks are descended from the Mongols and the Cappadocian LeykoSyrians/Persians who are mentioned from Herodotus times and no they never mixed with the Greeks as they kept their language and culture up until the the Ottoman times.

This is why they became Muslims and wrote in Arabic script and were allies of the Arabs before the Ottomans, whereas the European races of Anatolia became Christians and were allied to the Greeks and Byzantines or were Greeks themselves including the Paphlagonians (Pontians), Mycians, Teukrians, Phrygians and Armenians.

The races who were allied to the Persians (Iranians) including the Medes whose descendents are the Kurds also became Muslims. The people of Hatay were the last of the Assyrians and become Christians as allies of the Greeks.

Herodotus:

[1.72.1] The Cappadocians are known to the Greeks by the name of Syrians. Before the rise of the Persian power, they had been subject to the Medes; but at the present time they were within the empire of Cyrus, for the boundary between the Median and the Lydian empires was the river Halys. This stream, which rises in the mountain country of Armenia, runs first through Cilicia; afterwards it flows for a while with the Matieni on the right, and
the Phrygians on the left: then, when they are passed, it proceeds with a northern course, separating the Cappadocian Syrians from the Paphlagonians, who occupy the left bank, thus forming the boundary of almost the whole of Lower Asia, from the sea opposite Cyprus to the Euxine. Just there is the neck of the peninsula, a journey of five days across for an active walker. "

[Dick]

https://i.giphy.com/media/3ornjPrVfRT0Nze3o4/giphy.webp

[Dick]

We have genetics today! :D

cabOOM the cucked


I have a R1a>Y35>YP4278>YP4441-A.



Its directly ancestral branch with 1850 ybp TMRCA is in Serbia, Czech Republic, etc.:

https://yfull.com/tree/R-YP4278/

[Laberia]

But we have genetic PROOF! it's YOU! You kept asking Vozd and Commonsense for proof meanwhile you can't even handle the PROOF!(YOU)

I actually feel sorry for you. Must suck to know you descend from an ethnicity you despise hence your staunch chauvinism.

Come on dick. A serv call the others chauvinist?

[Kouros]

rofl this gypsy just quoted urbandictionary, I love this site.

[wvwvw]

You don't even know what you have proof of. I don't despise Serbs. I don't hate or dislike people for no reason.

It is kind of pointless with you.

Vlach-boy!

How is he a Vlach boy when genetically he’s central euro and his ydna is Scandinavian

[CabOOM]

No such thing as a Christianized Turk. The Christians of Turkey were either Greeks of the Greek Orthodox faith, Armenians of the Monophysite Armenian faith or Assyrians of the Syrian rite.

All of these spoke difference languages. Assyrians speak Aramaic and Armenians Armenian. The rest was Muslims and concersion to Christianity was punishable by death. Like I said, the Greeks of Asia Minor document an uninterrupted presence there. Where is the continuinity of Albanians with the people they claim to be their ancestors?

The Persians and the Kurds were in Central and Eastern Anatolia, not in Western Anatolia where Greeks were. Western Anatolia was Greek land with no Persian presence there. Assyrians lived in the South, and only Cappadocia was mixed where 3 distinct groups lived the Greeks/Greco-Galatians, the Armenians and the Leykosyrians/Persians.

The Turks are descended from the Mongols and the Cappadocian LeykoSyrians/Persians who are mentioned from Herodotus times and no they never mixed with the Greeks as they kept their language and culture up until the the Ottoman times.

This is why they became Muslims and wrote in Arabic script and were allies of the Arabs before the Ottomans, whereas the European races of Anatolia became Christians and were allied to the Greeks and Byzantines or were Greeks themselves including the Paphlagonians (Pontians), Mycians, Teukrians, Phrygians and Armenians.

The races who were allied to the Persians (Iranians) including the Medes whose descendents are the Kurds also became Muslims. The people of Hatay were the last of the Assyrians and become Christians as allies of the Greeks.

Herodotus:

[1.72.1] The Cappadocians are known to the Greeks by the name of Syrians. Before the rise of the Persian power, they had been subject to the Medes; but at the present time they were within the empire of Cyrus, for the boundary between the Median and the Lydian empires was the river Halys. This stream, which rises in the mountain country of Armenia, runs first through Cilicia; afterwards it flows for a while with the Matieni on the right, and
the Phrygians on the left: then, when they are passed, it proceeds with a northern course, separating the Cappadocian Syrians from the Paphlagonians, who occupy the left bank, thus forming the boundary of almost the whole of Lower Asia, from the sea opposite Cyprus to the Euxine. Just there is the neck of the peninsula, a journey of five days across for an active walker. "

Another Hellene specimen I just found.

https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/cpoc3krDH1dfYsolbolEmw--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9MjQwO3E9OTU7dz0zMjA-/http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1734078/fat-guy-dancing-o.gif

[Kouros]

Dick is a good guy, I don't understand the drama going on in this thread but his Gedmatch results are ridiculous for someone who is 100% Balkan.

[CabOOM]

cabOOM the cucked

https://m.popkey.co/6d4749/DYJNx.gif

https://shop.coronatoolsusa.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/image/1000x1320/e9c3970ab036de70892d86c6d221abfe/f/k/fk70000_lrg.jpg

[CabOOM]

How is he a Vlach boy when genetically he’s central euro and his ydna is Scandinavian

I have no idea. He doesn't like being called a Vlach. So, he's a Vlach. For Sure!

[Laberia]

No such thing as a Christianized Turk. The Christians of Turkey were either Greeks of the Greek Orthodox faith, Armenians of the Monophysite Armenian faith or Assyrians of the Syrian rite.

All of these spoke difference languages. Assyrians speak Aramaic and Armenians Armenian. The rest was Muslims and concersion to Christianity was punishable by death. Like I said, the Greeks of Asia Minor document an uninterrupted presence there. Where is the continuinity of Albanians with the people they claim to be their ancestors?

The Persians and the Kurds were in Central and Eastern Anatolia, not in Western Anatolia where Greeks were. Western Anatolia was Greek land with no Persian presence there. Assyrians lived in the South, and only Cappadocia was mixed where 3 distinct groups lived the Greeks/Greco-Galatians, the Armenians and the Leykosyrians/Persians.

The Turks are descended from the Mongols and the Cappadocian LeykoSyrians/Persians who are mentioned from Herodotus times and no they never mixed with the Greeks as they kept their language and culture up until the the Ottoman times.

This is why they became Muslims and wrote in Arabic script and were allies of the Arabs before the Ottomans, whereas the European races of Anatolia became Christians and were allied to the Greeks and Byzantines or were Greeks themselves including the Paphlagonians (Pontians), Mycians, Teukrians, Phrygians and Armenians.

The races who were allied to the Persians (Iranians) including the Medes whose descendents are the Kurds also became Muslims. The people of Hatay were the last of the Assyrians and become Christians as allies of the Greeks.

Herodotus:

[1.72.1] The Cappadocians are known to the Greeks by the name of Syrians. Before the rise of the Persian power, they had been subject to the Medes; but at the present time they were within the empire of Cyrus, for the boundary between the Median and the Lydian empires was the river Halys. This stream, which rises in the mountain country of Armenia, runs first through Cilicia; afterwards it flows for a while with the Matieni on the right, and
the Phrygians on the left: then, when they are passed, it proceeds with a northern course, separating the Cappadocian Syrians from the Paphlagonians, who occupy the left bank, thus forming the boundary of almost the whole of Lower Asia, from the sea opposite Cyprus to the Euxine. Just there is the neck of the peninsula, a journey of five days across for an active walker. "


Sure:
The so-called greeks of Asia Minor, your people Raine:


A thousand years later, around 1891, a Greek nationalist visited Asia Minor, the land of St Gregory, only to receive to his considerable distress exactly the same answer:

For if today you ask a Christian, even one speaking a corrupted Greek: "What are you?", "A Christian (Christianos)," he will unhesitantly reply. "All right, but other people are Christians, the Armenians, the Franks, the Russians..." "I don't know," he will answer, "Yes, these people believe in Christ but I am a Christian." "Perhaps you are a Greek?" "No, I am not anything, I've told you that I'm a Christian, and once again I say to you that I am a Christian!..."


Source:
"The Quest for Hellenism: Religion, Nationalism, and Collective Identities in Greece (1453-1913)", by Dimitris Livanios. Page 40

[Laberia]

rofl this gypsy just quoted urbandictionary, I love this site.

You are not Turks, you are what the anus of the Turks produce every morning.

[Laberia]

cabOOM the cucked

Congratulations dick. You derailed this thread, of course with the help of the transvestite from Asia. It's the only thing that you know to do. It was an help for your compatriots who are so deficents and imbeciles that together with you can not write a single line about the history of your country. The most important contributor about the servian history in this forum is..... Novi Pazar.

[wvwvw]

You are not Turks, we are what the anus of the Turks produce every morning.

I agree..Your masters are the Turks.
http://www.albaniannews.com/foto/2015/07/20150717040325_art.jpg
Tirana-thousands of Albos farting to Mecca

http://istanbul47.free.fr/shqiperiaturkiye/1.jpg

[wvwvw]

Asia (Greek: Ἀσία) in Greek mythology was a daughter of Oceanus and Tethys. According to Apollodorus, she was the wife of the Titan Iapetus, and mother of Atlas, Prometheus, Epimetheus and Menoetius.

The Pelasgians too descended from Oceanus. (Ogenos, Ωγηνος) or Ogen)

[wvwvw]

Congratulations dick. You derailed this thread, of course with the help of the transvestite from Asia. It's the only thing that you know to do. It was an help for your compatriots who are so deficents and imbeciles that together with you can not write a single line about the history of your country. The most important contributor about the servian history in this forum is..... Novi Pazar.

You have been derailing every thread Dick have tried to rerail.

[Laberia]

You have been derailing every thread Dick have tried to rerail.
What the fuck you want in a discussion between Albanians and servs? You can't resist without eating proi-proi some Albanian shit.

[wvwvw]

What the fuck you want in a discussion between Albanians and servs? You can't resist without eating proi-proi some Albanian shit.

It was you that brought Greeks into the discussion. 90% of your threads are about Greeks, the rest about Serbs.

[CabOOM]

To end this discussion with an appropriate song. :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J7j5EkFCxA


Men of Dibra have oathed their loyalty
To the next world, they don't care about dying

......

And this Isuf Xhelili has asked us,
To give this Dibra honor

......

Elez Isufi this man of Albania
Chosen leader of Dibra and all mountaineers
From the fields of Lura and peaks of Korabi
They littered the lands with sandals of Serbs

:)

[Laberia]

To end this discussion with an appropriate song. :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J7j5EkFCxA


Men of Dibra have oathed their loyalty
To the next world, they don't care about dying

......

And this Isuf Xhelili has asked us,
To give this Dibra honor

......

Elez Isufi this man of Albania
Chosen leader of Dibra and all mountaineers
From the fields of Lura and peaks of Korabi
They littered the lands with sandals of Serbs

:)

I like this, there is something Laberi here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCJpRl6TvXs
Hajredin Pasha o po vjen o Radikes
Valle o ku jan o k'to malet e Dibres

Valle ku jan o mor' k'to male e Dibres
Bejn' o kuvend o n' ate fushe o te Gjorices

Ne fushe o t' Gjorices o more te kalaja
Hajredin Pashen more e ka gjet belaj

Qe belaja pashen e ka gjete
Malet e Dibres more kan lidhe bese

Kane lidhe bese o, mor kan lidhe te tane
Turkut Dibren o mos me ja dhane

Hajredin Pasha o mor' kryhutaqe
S`lidhet Dibra more me kerbaçe

Hajredin Pasha more ku e ke ushtrine
Malete Dibres o mor' mi kan' gri

Malet e Dibres more kan' met o te tane
Nuk jan pak o mor' , por 12000 mije

Jo ma pak o se 12000
kane mbet o ne llogore ne dhe pa i shti

Hajredin pasha ku e ke lane atin,
ne Diber te Madhe e kam lane te ngratin

[wvwvw]

what group of west asian?

Caucasus

[Drawing-slim]

We have the traditional union of Serbs and Grrrrks against Albanians. Since everything has been said, we will just let others formulate their opinion instead of repeating the same thing.

It is rather interesting how much greeks and serbs love each other. It kinda weird. Get a room.

[Lavrentis]

It is rather interesting how much greeks and serbs love each other. It kinda weird. Get a room.

I prefer Albanians over Serbs any day. I grew up with Albanian people. This internet circle-jerk of a Greek-Serbian friendship was started by Serbs. Most young Greeks have grown up like me, with Albanian friends so what you see on the internet doesn’t always reflect reality.

It was Serbs who started sucking up to Greece in the 90’s because they had no allies


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wvwvw]

I prefer Albanians over Serbs any day. I grew up with Albanian people. This internet circle-jerk of a Greek-Serbian friendship was started by Serbs. Most young Greeks have grown up like me, with Albanian friends so what you see on the internet doesn’t always reflect reality.

It was Serbs who started sucking up to Greece in the 90’s because they had no allies


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Most Greeks prefer Serbs or Bulgarians any day. Even Skopjans to Albanians.

[wvwvw]

It is rather interesting how much greeks and serbs love each other. It kinda weird. Get a room.

We admire and respect the Serbs. They have given us no reason not to.

[Drawing-slim]

We admire and respect the Serbs. They have given us no reason not to.

This cannot be true. As much as i love to agree with you but greeks are smarter than to admire bulgars and serbs more than Albanians.

[Drawing-slim]

I prefer Albanians over Serbs any day. I grew up with Albanian people. This internet circle-jerk of a Greek-Serbian friendship was started by Serbs. Most young Greeks have grown up like me, with Albanian friends so what you see on the internet doesn’t always reflect reality.

It was Serbs who started sucking up to Greece in the 90’s because they had no allies


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThis makes more sense. This is a case of famliarity breeds contempt perhaps, this deep hate laberia and raine have for each other is a good example.

[wvwvw]

This cannot be true. As much as i love to agree with you but greeks are smarter than to admire bulgars and serbs more than Albanians.

It’s hard to admire a mini Turkey in your borders.

[Drawing-slim]

It’s hard to admire a mini Turkey in your borders.

Its irrelevant since albos score more euro native than greeks serbs turks and everyone else..

[wvwvw]

Its irrelevant since albos score more euro native than greeks serbs turks and everyone else..

That’s just your opinion.

[Laberia]

This makes more sense. This is a case of famliarity breeds contempt perhaps, this deep hate laberia and raine have for each other is a good example.

Ther is no hate. Raine is too much retard to be hated.

[Drawing-slim]

That’s just your opinion.

Your opinion also.

[cosmoo]

What you thought is product of your pseudo-science. Vlachs were an ethnic group, the biggest in Balkans.
You Montenegrins are basically slavised Albanians with some Vlach contributions of course.
They are in eastern parts, on western Balkans they were a mere social category.

And no, we are not Albanian in any way, our patrilinear genetics beg to differ. Even those clades that were on Balkans before Migration Era are known to be considerably separated from Albanian ones, as seen by SNP analyses (I posted a chart on it about a dozen times).

[CabOOM]

I like this, there is something Laberi here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCJpRl6TvXs


Do kenge Labe ti? E filloj nga Mallakastra un :P


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB394HN6Vd8

Edhe nje te paster


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek4eLNUOPJU

[CabOOM]

Most Greeks prefer Serbs or Bulgarians any day. Even Skopjans to Albanians.

This is simply not true.

[Laberia]

Do kenge Labe ti? E filloj nga Mallakastra un :P


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB394HN6Vd8

Edhe nje te paster


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek4eLNUOPJU

Thanks, but today i was listening some songs from Dibra. I am 1/4 Dibran, grandfather from mother side was a Dibran. So, i am a real malok, Lab+Geg, hahahaha.

[Thanas Django]

Thanks, but today i was listening some songs from Dibra. I am 1/4 Dibran, grandfather from mother side was a Dibran. So, i am a real malok, Lab+Geg, hahahaha.

Laberia is a real malok, Lab+Geg+shoe size 42

[Laberia]

They are in eastern parts, on western Balkans they were a mere social category.

No, it's not true. This is how servian propaganda has described this people. And not only the Vlachs but also the Albanians in the interpretation of medieval documents made by your "scholars", are considered as a social category. Something similar with the theory of the Greeks about Vlachs. But all this is a lie. 200 years ago, Vlachs were the biggest ethnic group in the Balkans. I am not Vlach, i am Albanian and what i said is the truth.


And no, we are not Albanian in any way, our patrilinear genetics beg to differ. Even those clades that were on Balkans before Migration Era are known to be considerably separated from Albanian ones, as seen by SNP analyses (I posted a chart on it about a dozen times).
This patrilinear genetics folktales you can continue to discuss with the teenagers and members from part of the world who have idea of Balkans, not with me. I have expressed my opinion about Montenegrins HERE (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?192361-Montenegrins-are-not-Sarbi&p=4001289&viewfull=1#post4001289) and i don't want to repeat myself again. Read all the three posts and if you don't agree, you are free to explain your point of view.
I want to tell you something this time. In this part of the world called Balkans, especially among the Highlanders, for a father having a bunch of daughters is like to be accursed by God, for your country this was a blessing. OK?

[Laberia]

Laberia is a real malok, Lab+Geg+shoe size 42

And you are an ugly Levantine.

[cosmoo]

No, it's not true. This is how servian propaganda has described this people. And not only the Vlachs but also the Albanians in the interpretation of medieval documents made by your "scholars", are considered as a social category. Something similar with the theory of the Greeks. But all this is a lie. 200 years ago, Vlachs were the biggest ethnic group in the Balkans. I am not Vlach, i am Albanian and what i said is the truth.
It should be enough to note that nearly all families of western Montenegro and Herzegovina recorded as "Vlach" have Slavic (in broad sense) Y-DNA.


This patrilinear genetics folktales you can continue to discuss with the teenagers and members from part of the world who have idea of Balkans, not with me. I have expressed my opinion about Montenegrins HERE (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?192361-Montenegrins-are-not-Sarbi&p=4001289&viewfull=1#post4001289) and i don't want to repeat myself again. Read all the three posts and if you don't agree, you are free to explain your point of view.
I want to tell you something this time. In this part of the world called Balkans, especially among the Highlanders, for a father having a bunch of daughters is like to be accursed by God, for your country this was a blessing. OK?

In contrast to your phantasms, those are not "folktales", but scientifically irrefutable methods which show lack of connection to Albanians.
I am not interested in your toponymic yammering, going by that logic we can prove anything if we twist and warp enough guided by emotions of pure cope.

[Laberia]

It should be enough to note that nearly all families of western Montenegro and Herzegovina recorded as "Vlach" have Slavic (in broad sense) Y-DNA.


In contrast to your phantasms, those are not "folktales", but scientifically irrefutable methods which show lack of connection to Albanians.
I am not interested in your toponymic yammering, going by that logic we can prove anything if we twist and warp enough guided by emotions of pure cope.

Thanks for your elaborate answer dude. Genetics it's the last frontiere for your nationalistic mantra.
And don't forget an important lesson from the history of your country, having daughters it's not a bad thing.

[cosmoo]

Thanks for your elaborate answer dude. Genetics it's the last frontiere for your nationalistic mantra.
And don't forget an important lesson from the history of your country, having daughters it's not a bad thing.
Not a last frontier, merely a best and irrefutable answer to make you fuck off with pseudo-linguistics. What's next on your repertoire, you will tell me Scotland was settled by Shqiptars by virtue of bearing name Alba in the past?

As for the second part- I can guess what you are trying to do, but I am not in mood for deciphering your sniggery passive-aggressive remarks. If you want to provoke, do it with some dignity at least, not by wrapping up your words like an impudent cur.

[Laberia]

Not a last frontier, merely a best and irrefutable answer to make you fuck off with pseudo-linguistics. What's next on your repertoire, you will tell me Scotland was settled by Shqiptars by virtue of bearing name Alba in the past?

As for the second part- I can guess what you are trying to do, but I am not in mood for deciphering your sniggery passive-aggressive remarks. If you want to provoke, do it with some dignity at least, not by wrapping up your words like an impudent cur.

It's too late for you to clean the shit with pee.

[CommonSense]

Vlachs were an ethnicity at the beginning. There were different groups of Vlachs, too. Even the residents of cities like Dubrovinik were called Vlachs. Later most of them were assimilated, but they were still sheperds as they were before, so the term vlach started to refer to a social class rather than an ethnic group. In the Ottoman empire the two main social classes of christians were rayah and vlachs.

Also: More than 12.000 servs left their bones in Dibra. The Black Drin became red with the blood of this subhumans.
What? Sure, we must have left 100 000 more in Atlantis too....

[Kouros]

You are not Turks, you are what the anus of the Turks produce every morning.

Ok but in 1944 your tribe of Islamic gypsies got their asses handed to them and now the best you can amount to is freeloading in Greece. I mean, it's actually pretty hilarious once you think about it, because your region is comparable with an American ghetto in all respects and now you are forced to learn Greek to even get a job. Continue calling me a Turk though, I think other Albanians on here have done enough to try to tame you but you are a very uncivilized Labrador of (genetically proven) gypsy spawn; so there's no helping you.

[Laberia]

Ok but in 1944 your tribe of Islamic gypsies got their asses handed to them and now the best you can amount to is freeloading in Greece. I mean, it's actually pretty hilarious once you think about it, because your region is comparable with an American ghetto in all respects and now you are forced to learn Greek to even get a job. Continue calling me a Turk though, I think other Albanians on here have done enough to try to tame you but you are a very uncivilized Labrador of (genetically proven) gypsy spawn; so there's no helping you.
No dudumis, i didn`t called you Turk.

[CabOOM]

Thanks, but today i was listening some songs from Dibra. I am 1/4 Dibran, grandfather from mother side was a Dibran. So, i am a real malok, Lab+Geg, hahahaha.

Nice! Have you heard Polyphonic songs from Dibra?

I think Laberia has a more refined and possibly advanced Polyphonic style. But I think the Women Polyphonic from Dibra might be an older form of Polyphonic

Polyphonic for Men

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_4RlXGFpjc
Polyphonic for Women

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrFKyyQjn_8

[CabOOM]

Vlachs were an ethnicity at the beginning. There were different groups of Vlachs, too. Even the residents of cities like Dubrovinik were called Vlachs. Later most of them were assimilated, but they were still sheperds as they were before, so the term vlach started to refer to a social class rather than an ethnic group. In the Ottoman empire the two main social classes of christians were rayah and vlachs.

Also: More than 12.000 servs left their bones in Dibra. The Black Drin became red with the blood of this subhumans.
What? Sure, we must have left 100 000 more in Atlantis too....

That figure is actually for Turks in the Battle of Gjorica in 1870's?. 5,000 Dibra Mountaineers vs 20,000 Turks. Dibra victory with 12,000 Turks dead. Didn't feel like correcting lol

As far as Serbs in Diber. About 4-5,000 Serbs died in Diber in the Balkan Wars during Serbian incursion into Diber. A further 10,000 Serbs died died in Luma(Kukes) against a force of 4,000 from Luma and 800 from Dibra. Albanians to have died in this exchange in Luma was around 100 men. Some of the most humiliating defeats Serbia has had.

You should start celebrating these defeats as well, as you usually like to celebrate humiliating defeats.

[Kelmendasi]

They are in eastern parts, on western Balkans they were a mere social category.

And no, we are not Albanian in any way, our patrilinear genetics beg to differ. Even those clades that were on Balkans before Migration Era are known to be considerably separated from Albanian ones, as seen by SNP analyses (I posted a chart on it about a dozen times).
Although most V13 in Montenegrins has a good amount of distance with Albanian V13, certain clades like Z16661 among the Kuči is exactly the same as the Albanian Berisha e Kuqe(Kuqi) as the Kuči(the Kuqi who now call themselves Serbs) traditionally and genetically descend from them also I’m like 99% sure that the R1b-BY611 and J2b2 there is from Albanians. Im not trying to say that you guys are Albos, just saying that some Albanian genetic remnants are there same with some Slavic remnants in Albanians.

[Kelmendasi]

Thanks, but today i was listening some songs from Dibra. I am 1/4 Dibran, grandfather from mother side was a Dibran. So, i am a real malok, Lab+Geg, hahahaha.
Where from in Dibra?

[CommonSense]

That figure is actually for Turks in the Battle of Gjorica in 1870's?. 5,000 Dibra Mountaineers vs 20,000 Turks. Dibra victory with 12,000 Turks dead. Didn't feel like correcting lol

As far as Serbs in Diber. About 4-5,000 Serbs died in Diber in the Balkan Wars during Serbian incursion into Diber. A further 10,000 Serbs died died in Luma(Kukes) against a force of 4,000 from Luma and 800 from Dibra. Albanians to have died in this exchange in Luma was around 100 men. Some of the most humiliating defeats Serbia has had.

You should start celebrating these defeats as well, as you usually like to celebrate humiliating defeats.

You missed the date of the battle by a few decades. It's described here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_of_Dervish_Cara)...it even mentions the song you two posted.

The only major clash between Serbs and Albanians in the Balkan Wars was the siege of Skadar. I did find Luma mentioned, but only in the context of massacares perpatrated there.

Edit: The Battle of Kosovo was only humilating for the Turks. Their sultan got killed by means of trickery.

[CabOOM]

You missed the date of the battle by a few decades. It's described here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_of_Dervish_Cara)...it even mentions the song you two posted.

The only major clash between Serbs and Albanians in the Balkan Wars was the siege of Skadar. I did find Luma mentioned, but only in the context of massacares perpatrated there.

Well, I left the date in question mark. Don't have citations handy. It happened before the Balkan wars, essentially.

Truthfully, the Albanian Communist government didn't like mentioning the Luma and Dibra resistance. I believe it had to do with trying to maintain good relations with Yugoslavia. Glorifying horrible Serbian losses might have been perceived as "unfriendly". What I think. At the same time, Serbs committed massive amounts of catastrophes in Dibra and Luma. They weren't mentioned at all in the Communist books. I believe they weren't mentioned because they didn't want to have a perception of weakness.

They are real events however. Serbs came to these areas unopposed at first and committed unspeakable atrocities. They were eventually repelled.

[CommonSense]

Well, I left the date in question mark. Don't have citations handy. It happened before the Balkan wars, essentially.

Truthfully, the Albanian Communist government didn't like mentioning the Luma and Dibra resistance. I believe it had to do with trying to maintain good relations with Yugoslavia. Glorifying horrible Serbian losses might have been perceived as "unfriendly". What I think. At the same time, Serbs committed massive amounts of catastrophes in Dibra and Luma. They weren't mentioned at all in the Communist books. I believe they weren't mentioned because they didn't want to have a perception of weakness.

They are real events however. Serbs came to these areas unopposed at first and committed unspeakable atrocities. They were eventually repelled.

I really don't know about your books, but in communist regimes everywhere the truth was twisted. The problems is I can't find any mention of the events you speak of anywhere. How do I know they were real? Do you have any link? In Albanian even? I never heard anyone mention this, not even Albanians on YouTube.

[CabOOM]

I really don't know about your books, but in communist regimes everywhere the truth was twisted. The problems is I can't find any mention of the events you speak of anywhere. How do I know they were real? Do you have any link? In Albanian even? I never heard anyone mention this, not even Albanians on YouTube.

I have hard copies of Albanian books. Maybe Laberia can help us find some digital source.

They are two events. Dibra resistance in Diber under the command of Elez Isufi. They managed to liberate all of Dibra but also a big portion of Macedonia, all the way to Shkup and Resnje from the Serbs. It is called Dibras 9-year war against Turks and Serbs.

The second is the Luma resistance. This is an epic battle of around 4,000 men from Luma and 800 of Elez Isufi men from Dibra. Entire battalions of Serbian military died here.

The third you are mentioning is the Siege of Shkodra. These were the Shkodra mountaineer, with tons Elez Isufis men from Dibra, as well as other regions. A few people from my grandfathers village died in Shkodra. Cercez Topulli in Laberias signature died here as well. Mainly focused around Shkodra but also included areas inside of Montenegro.

[CommonSense]

Yeah I found the battle while you were editing the post.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lum%C3%AB

You earned a great victory, but our casualities were nowhere near as big as you say they were.

[CabOOM]

Yeah I found the battle while you were editing the post.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lum%C3%AB

You earned a great victory, but our casualities were nowhere near as big as you say they were.

It is that big. Communist Albania didn't just distort these events. It tried to eliminate them. As did Yugoslavian government. As weirdly stupid as that sounds.

Memory and songs of these events say the lands were littered with the sandals of Serbs. Takes a lot of sandals to litter the lands.

[CommonSense]

It is that big. Communist Albania didn't just distort these events. It tried to eliminate them. As did Yugoslavian government. As weirdly stupid as that sounds.

Memory and songs of these events say the lands were littered with the sandals of Serbs. Takes a lot of sandals to litter the lands.

The folk tales are always an overstatement. You can't base historic facts on them. In ancient Greek tradition, for example, the Persian armies had hundreds of thousands of soldiers. Those tales and songs only speak for the significance the events had for the local inhabitants.

[CabOOM]

The folk tales are always an overstatement. You can't base historic facts on them. In ancient Greek tradition, for example, the Persian armies had hundreds of thousands of soldiers. Those tales and songs only speak for the significance the events had for the local inhabitants.

I don't have sources for this, so i can't disagree with you. I'm not one to believe in such tales. However, there is a big level of truth here. Without these events, Yugoslavia would have consumed Albania.

[CommonSense]

I don't have sources for this, so i can't disagree with you. I'm not one to believe in such tales. However, there is a big level of truth here. Without these events, Yugoslavia would have consumed Albania.

It already sort of happened, but the major forces gathered in the conferrence in London accepted Albanian indepenance and Serbia had to retreat.

[CabOOM]

It already sort of happened, but the major forces gathered in the conferrence in London accepted Albanian indepenance and Serbia had to retreat.

Serbia had hundreds of thousands of men at its disposal. 1,000 dead would not have stopped Serbia from sending more men. The nature of how Serbia was at that time should help you understand.

When ever Serbia lost, it send simply send more men. The fact that Serbia was hesitatant to send more men into these areas should signal that something terrible had happened. Not 1,000. Not even 10,000 men was terrible mount of men to lose at that time for Serbia.

Serbias retreat occurred in the later stages when Serbia, Greece, and Montenegro attacked at the same time. There's a whole series of events that occurred before this.

We will see if Laberia has something.

[CommonSense]

Serbia had hundreds of thousands of men at its disposal. 1,000 dead would not have stopped Serbia from sending more men. The nature of how Serbia was at that time should help you understand.

When ever Serbia lost, it send simply send more men. The fact that Serbia was hesitatant to send more men into these areas should signal that something terrible had happened. Not 1,000. Not even 10,000 men was terrible mount of men to lose at that time for Serbia.

Serbias retreat occurred in the later stages when Serbia, Greece, and Montenegro attacked at the same time. There's a whole series of events that occurred before this.

We will see if Laberia has something.

A lot of our people (soldiers, common folk, women and children) did die in Albania, but that was in the winter of 1915 while they were retreating through the mountains, and it was because of malnutrition, exhaustion and cold weather.

[Voskos]

Serbia had hundreds of thousands of men at its disposal. 1,000 dead would not have stopped Serbia from sending more men. The nature of how Serbia was at that time should help you understand.

When ever Serbia lost, it send simply send more men. The fact that Serbia was hesitatant to send more men into these areas should signal that something terrible had happened. Not 1,000. Not even 10,000 men was terrible mount of men to lose at that time for Serbia.

Serbias retreat occurred in the later stages when Serbia, Greece, and Montenegro attacked at the same time. There's a whole series of events that occurred before this.

We will see if Laberia has something.

what is your religious background?

[CabOOM]

A lot of our people (soldiers, common folk, women and children) did die in Albania, but that was in the winter of 1915 while they were retreating through the mountains, and it was because of malnutrition, exhaustion and cold weather.

How could Serbian women, children, and common folk die in Albania while retreating? That makes no sense. Serbs pillaged while they retreated man. Burned a ton of villages as well. They weren't malnourished.

[CabOOM]

what is your religious background?

I have it listed.

[Voskos]

I have it listed.

i don't understand it sorry.orthodox christian of spiritualistic kind?

[CommonSense]

How could Serbian women, children, and common folk die in Albania while retreating? That makes no sense. Serbs pillaged while they retreated man. Burned a ton of villages as well. They weren't malnourished.

I was referring to WW1 when everyone was fleeing the invading armies.

It's all here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_army%27s_retreat_through_Albania

[CabOOM]

i don't understand it sorry.orthodox christian of spiritualistic kind?

Orthodox Christian in spirit. Not very religious in practice.

I believe everyone can be good or bad, irrelevant of your beliefs. If your beliefs can help you achieve being a better person, then so be it.

[CabOOM]

I was referring to WW1 when everyone was fleeing the invading armies.

It's all here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_army%27s_retreat_through_Albania

I don't know much about this event, honestly.

[Voskos]

Orthodox Christian in spirit. Not very religious in practice.

I believe everyone can be good or bad, irrelevant of your beliefs. If your beliefs can help you achieve being a better person, then so be it.

what I find interesting is that Orthodox Albanians seem to be more hostile to Greece than muslim ones , ironically. I am fervent christian myself but the only Albos I ever got along with were muslims, with Turkish names.

[CommonSense]

I don't know much about this event, honestly.

An American historian, Indy Neidell, has a channel called The Great War. It has many episodes covering a great range of topics, countries and people. One of the episodes deals with the Serbian army's retreat. If you want, you can take a look (I don't want to link it, we've derailled the thread enough). Cheers

[CabOOM]

what I find interesting is that Orthodox Albanians seem to be more hostile to Greece than muslim ones , ironically. I am fervent christian myself but the only Albos I ever got along with were muslims, with Turkish names.

We gotta deal with a lot of shit man. We gotta deal with these ideas that Orthodox gotta be Greek. By me we also have that Orthodox gotta be Macedonian and Bulgarian on top of Greek. lol

Makes you hostile to anyone proposing any such idea.

[Voskos]

We gotta deal with a lot of shit man. We gotta deal with these ideas that Orthodox gotta be Greek. By me we also have that Orthodox gotta be Macedonian and Bulgarian on top of Greek. lol

Makes you hostile to anyone proposing any such idea.

understandable

[CabOOM]

understandable

You have lots of foreigners in Crete? As in refugees as well?

[CabOOM]

An American historian, Indy Neidell, has a channel called The Great War. It has many episodes covering a great range of topics, countries and people. One of the episodes deals with the Serbian army's retreat. If you want, you can take a look (I don't want to link it, we've derailled the thread enough). Cheers

It's all Balkan love. This love-hate relationship we got. LOL

[Voskos]

You have lots of foreigners in Crete? As in refugees as well?

there are no refugees here.but we have lots of immigration from Bulgaria,Albania,Russia,Ukraine,Georgia and non-European countries, mostly from North Africa.

[CabOOM]

there are no refugees here.but we have lots of immigration from Bulgaria,Albania,Russia,Ukraine,Georgia and non-European countries, mostly from North Africa.

I always wondered what that dynamic is like. Do Greeks when presented with all those groups among them prefer Albanians? or the same? Additionally, do you care that they are "Muslim", even if in name? Compared as well with the other groups.

[Voskos]

I always wondered what that dynamic is like. Do Greeks when presented with all those groups among them prefer Albanians? or the same? Additionally, do you care that they are "Muslim", even if in name? Compared as well with the other groups.

Not sure to be honest. It depends on a lot of things, politics, caracter of said person etc. But you will see mixed marriages with all the above nationalities except with North Africans.
I've just noticed that some Albanians tend to be more cautious towards non-Albanians, that's the only difference I've noticed compared to other ethnic groups.



do you care that they are "Muslim", even if in name?

No.In the case of Albanians the locals do not care about their religion. Arabs on the other hand are seen as muslims and culturally incompatible, that's how it is.

[oszkar07]

That is becouse he knows the history of Hungarians, so it is probably truth!! Hungarians are ancient historically close to Turks.

That is rather debatable, not to mention Hungarian is not a Turkic language...strange that some called Hungarians Turk's considering Hungarian language isnt Turkic.


It's incorrect of course. Point is that he maybe alude to "raping", but science proved that raping never happened, and if happened that was by local turkicized people.


I wouldnt consider Balkanites Turkicised , but Ottoman's most likely left more cultural influence in the Balkan's overall compared to elsewhere in Europe.

[Vožd]

I told you that they will always avoid a normal discussion. I know them perfectly.

No, everything was ok before you come with autohtonic bullshits.

[Vožd]

The Battle of Kosovo was only humilating for the Turks. Their sultan got killed by means of trickery.

Its legend. Sultan actually was shoot by arrow.


Vlachs were an ethnicity at the beginning. There were different groups of Vlachs, too. Even the residents of cities like Dubrovinik were called Vlachs. Later most of them were assimilated, but they were still sheperds as they were before, so the term vlach started to refer to a social class rather than an ethnic group. In the Ottoman empire the two main social classes of christians were rayah and vlachs.

No, Term of "Vlach" have different meanings:

1. In medieval Serbia was shepherd social class
2. Denonyme for citizens of Principiality of Wallahia
3. Synonyme for Orthodox Christians in western Balkan (Bosnia mostly)
4. Modern term for all romanized Balkan native people
5. Common term fo Carphatian romanized tribes (they actually declare self as "Rumans" in their language, but when spek Slavic, use Slavic term "Vlasi")

[CommonSense]

Its legend. Sultan actually was shoot by arrow.



No, Term of "Vlach" have different meanings:

1. In medieval Serbia as shepherd social class
2. Denonyme for citizens of Principiality of Wallahia
3. Synonyme for Orthodox Christians in west Balkan (Bosnia mostly)
4. Modern term for all romanized Balkan native people
5. Common term fo Carphatian romanized tribes (they actually declare self as "Rumans" in their language, but when spek Slavic, use Slavic term "Vlasi")

It's not modern, all of them were called Vlachs in medieval documents. Even the Dubrovčani (like in Matej Ninoslav's charter). Polish people even called Italians Vlachs and they still do even today.

[Vožd]

It's not modern, all of them were called Vlachs in medieval documents. Even the Dubrovčani (like in Matej Ninoslav's charter). Polish people even called Italians Vlachs and they still do even today.

Its how Ninoslav call Ragusians.

[Laberia]

No, everything was ok before you come with autohtonic bullshits.

Vozd, i tried to install a normal discussion in the past with you but it's impossible because you are a troll, one of many in this forum. I have always answered to you with long and elaborate posts and you always have "forget" to answer or you have derailed the discussion. You are not a serious person. Let me repeat to you for the thousand time the question of how the Geg are not Albanian.
About the autocthonus, was your compatriot, CommonSense who started to talk about Slavs autocthonus in Balkans in Novi Pazar style.
It's a shame that you servs don't talk about the ethnogenesis and history of your people. There is not a single thread in this forum where we can read about this topic. And you want to discuss about Kosova. lol. You can not discuss about your history first of all.
Second, exactly about Kosova. I asked by this member CommonSense to elaborate his point of view about this region. Of course, i am not waiting from him a personal theory. You have your scholars and they have wrote extensively about this topic. What are you waiting for?
I have an friendly advice for you, stop being clowns in the front of the forum.

[CommonSense]

About the autocthonus, was your compatriot, CommonSense who started to talk about Slavs autocthonus in Balkans in Novi Pazar style.

Find once sentence where I made any such claims or never mention me again.

[CabOOM]

Find once sentence where I made any such claims or never mention me again.

Auchtothonous'isity is a relative term. When Albanians say they are autochthonous it is relative to Slavs. Your claim that Serbs inhabited Kosova is saying that Serbs were autochthonous relative to todays Albanians in Kosova.

Below are the relative discussions that were had in this thread. This is a discussion we are willing to have because there are people like Vozd in Serbia that are convinced of these Serbian claims. Without any proof, however. It is best we understand what Serbian claims are so Serbs themselves don't fall victim to hate fueled by this kind of misinformation.

In my opinion, Serbia needs an excuse for their past actions and for what it has claimed in the past as their argument for expansion into these territories. Most of Serbia claims are infatuated.


It's based on documents that provide info into the demographics of Kosovo during the late middle ages. Like the Decani chrysobulls and the Defter from 1455. Also, in all the know monastery charters throught the middle ages all the place names are Serbian. If the people in Kosovo had Serbian personal names and lived in villages that also had serbian names, then the only way for the Albanians to be authochtonous is Kosovo is if they lived in the woods like wild animals until after the Turkish conquest.
Or maybe they had Serbian names as part of the policy of the Serbian Church. Or maybe the document is another bullshit spit out by the Serbian state, as so much bullshit it has spit out. Hard to keep track of Serbian bullshit. In fact, Albanians from Kosova and Montenegro had Serbian names just recently. Albanians in Montenegro still have Serbian sounding names and last names.

Explain to us how all these Albanians arrived in Nish, Toplica, Novi Pazar, etc(Southern Serbia). You are proposing all these people are recent migrants. Take your time and tell us how they came there. Your other buddy Vovzd seem to think all Northern Albanians are some kind of Vlach. As idiotic as this might even sound, it's what Serbian state propagated for the last 200 years.


You're the one talking bullshit if you think that the Serbian church in the fucking middle ages cared about what names are Albanian children and villages going to have, and that Turks rewarded Serbs by killing and deporting them. I did not try to justify any crimes, mr SS, I was simply telling you and Laberia the difference between Niski sanjak and the city itself which did not have an Albanian majority.

Serbian Church under Stefan Dusan DID attempt to Serbianize the population in the middle ages. The conflict it had with the Catholic church makes this obvious. Name changes were the primary method of doing this, as it was the Serbian states primary method of assimilation in the last 2 centuries, as is the primary method of how populations in Greece are being assimilated. It is in fact one of the primary method populations everywhere are assimilated. To deny that this has been and is a method of assimilation in every country in history, is very silly.

1. Serbia spits a lot of bullshit. By the time you unravel one bullshit, it spits out 10 more bullshit. That is why we need to stick to reality. How did these Albanians in Southern Serba arrive there? Since you are saying they are recent arrivals? Genetically, Albanians in Kosovo have a TMRCA of around 1500+ years. You can use history, genetics, or even Serbian bullshit to make your claim here. How they get there?

No-one ever said Serbs did not live in Nish. Serbs should also not assume that every Christian in southern Serbia was a Serb, regardless of what their affiliation is today.

2. No-one disputed any of this. This is deflection, however. Reality is Montenegrins are not Serbs culturally or genetically. That is not saying they are Albanians. It is simply saying they are not Serbs, nor are they Slavs.

[CommonSense]

Auchtothonous'isity is a relative term. When Albanians say they are autochthonous it is relative to Slavs. Your claim that Serbs inhabited Kosova is saying that Serbs were autochthonous relative to todays Albanians in Kosova.

Below are the relative discussions that were had in this thread. This is a discussion we are willing to have because there are people like Vozd in Serbia that are convinced of these Serbian claims. Without any proof, however. It is best we understand what Serbian claims are so Serbs themselves don't fall victim to hate fueled by this kind of misinformation.

In my opinion, Serbia needs an excuse for their past actions and for what it has claimed in the past as their argument for expansion into these territories. Most of Serbia claims are infatuated.

He said I claim things like Novi Pazar who says the entire Balkans and Europe was inhabited by Slavs/Serbs. I explicitly stated in this very thread I am against Deretic and any similar kind of lunacy.

There are no accounts describing the way Slavs settled the Balkans. Slavic raids were mentioned, just like countless other barbarians raided before. And all of sudden the entire peninsula is divided into Sklaveniae. They even mange to take the Peloponnese. All these gaps of data are used by pseudohistorians not unlike yourselves to prove that Slavs were always living here. If you use common sense you would not need to listen to Deretic trolls. Considering all the data we know of what happened before and after, the presence of Vlachs, etc. we can assume that Slavs were a minority in the lands they settled and that they gradually assimilated other peoples and thus later became a majority.

You can use the same logic here. Before and after. There's even data that provides valuable info into demographics, toponims, onomastics to help you out. You don't to autistically copy-paste texts, just use common sense.

And there you have it. Proof that Laberia is an outright liar who alters the truth inside his mind when it doesn't fit into his twisted conception of reality.

[Laberia]

Find once sentence where I made any such claims or never mention me again.

Mekeridov, cut the crap.

[CommonSense]

Mekeridov, cut the crap.

Ask the moderators who I am if you dare

[Laberia]

Ask the moderators who I am if you dare

We will wait some days and we will see.

[CommonSense]

We will wait some days and we will see.

Have fun waiting.

[CabOOM]

He said I claim things like Novi Pazar who says the entire Balkans and Europe was inhabited by Slavs/Serbs. I explicitly stated in this very thread I am against Deretic and any similar kind of lunacy.


And there you have it. Proof that Laberia is an outright liar who alters the truth inside his mind when it doesn't fit into his twisted conception of reality.

I explained to you how Laberia linked your claims to what Bosniesis says. This is how understand it. Bosniesis claims Slavs in Balkans are native without proof. Meanwhile, you claim Serbs were native to Kosova before todays Albanians, without proof. Both sound equally ridiculous to me when we have plenty of evidence that Slavs are newcomers in the Balkans and no proof of Albanians ever having come into Kosova. Same logic is being applied here, whether you understand it or not.

[CommonSense]

I explained to you how Laberia linked your claims to what Bosniesis says. This is how understand it. Bosniesis claims Slavs in Balkans are native without proof. Meanwhile, you claim Serbs were native to Kosova before todays Albanians, without proof. Both sound equally ridiculous to me when we have plenty of evidence that Slavs are newcomers in the Balkans and no proof of Albanians ever having come into Kosova. Same logic is being applied here, whether you understand it or not.

It really isn't the same thing. Deretic is absolute pseudoscience, while the origins of Albanians and their exact homeland in the Balkans is debatable due to scarce info in historical sources. If you connect my posts to Novi Pazar you need at the very minmum a lobotomy.

[CabOOM]

It really isn't the same thing. Deretic is absolute pseudoscience, while the origins of Albanians and their exact homeland in the Balkans is debatable due to scarce info in historical sources. If you connect my posts to Novi Pazar you need at the very minmum a lobotomy.

Claiming Kosova is cradle of Serbian culture and civilization is just as crazy and bizarre. There are 10,000,000 people that believe this craziness. People at least know Deretic is crazy.

There is plenty of evidence of Albanian being native. Pieces of lingustics, culture of people in many ways identical to the ancient people, and genetics of people nearly identical to the ancient people. There are also piece of history linking Albanians to the ancient people. An example of historical. In one of the Monasteries of Kosova, there is an instance of a nun praying in the lands of Dardania. Found in the Serbian archives. One of those things the Serbs forgot to remove from their archives. ;)

[Laberia]

It really isn't the same thing. Deretic is absolute pseudoscience, while the origins of Albanians and their exact homeland in the Balkans is debatable due to scarce info in historical sources. If you connect my posts to Novi Pazar you need at the very minmum a lobotomy.

Ok but you are refusing to tell us what happened with servs in Kosova and how Sandjak, south servia and Kosova became predominantly a region inhabitated mostly by Albanians. You have read books in your language but you don`t tell us what those books says.
And the most important, we still don`t have a serious thread about the ethnogenesis, language and history of your nation.

[CommonSense]

There is plenty of evidence of Albanian being native. Pieces of lingustics, culture of people in many ways identical to the ancient people, and genetics of people nearly identical to the ancient people. There are also piece of history linking Albanians to the ancient people. An example about of historical. In one of the Monasteries of Kosova, there is an instance of a nun praying in the lands of Dardania. Found in the Serbian archives. One of those things the Serbs forgot to remove from their archives. ;)

I'm just saying that there is no international concensus on the origins of Albanians:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians
There are several theories.

[CabOOM]

I'm just saying that there is no international concensus on the origins of Albanians:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians
There are several theories.

80% of these theories come from Serbs. LOL You project YOUR theories as the theories of others.

[CommonSense]

80% of these theories come from Serbs. LOL You project YOUR theories as the theories of others.

There are no Serbian books in the referrences. You are the one who is projecting

[Laberia]

I'm just saying that there is no international concensus on the origins of Albanians:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians
There are several theories.
There are plenty of threads about this topic, some started even by your compatriots. And we have try to explain our opinion.
There is not a single thread where you have done the same.

[CommonSense]

There are plenty of threads about this topic, some started even by your compatriots. And we have try to explain our opinion.
There is not a single thread where you have done the same.

Why should any of us open a thread when you are going to derail it by copy pasting articles you found on the Internet. And anything we say you will openly dismiss because it doesn't match with your conception. You would only be satisfied if we claimed that we came from Asia and that are genes are Turkish because that's the only thing you are able to believe.

[CabOOM]

There are no Serbian books in the referrences. You are the one who is projecting

We are just having a civil conversation.

I just don't understand how 10,000,000 people could believe Kosova is the cradle of their culture and civilization without any proof for it. Seems idiotic to me.

Seems almost like a projection for territorial ambitions.

[CommonSense]

Servs are products of different gangraping. First gangrape was under the Moon light inside the huts of Pashtun tribes. Second was when they were under Iranian lords. When they arrived in Balkans, with the help of Croats because for servs was impossibile to find the road, Byzantines called this people, servs. And their ethnic name explain many things. Servs became loyal servs of Ottomans and had many "privileges", you can understand what. The last gangraping that servs suffered, was under Sali Aga, the Rudnik Bull & Co. You can understand now why servs are swarthy.

THIS IS THE ONLY VERSION OF SERBIAN HISTORY YOU WILL EVER ACCEPT. You will never stop asking us to elaborate our opinion until we utter this exact nonsense.

[Dibran]

But you abused Albanian Christians as much as Albanian Muslims. You forcefully assimilated Albanian Orthodox in Kosova, Montenegro, and Macedonia. You forcefully tried to convert Albanian Catholics into Orthodox. What you did had nothing to do with Ottomans and Muslims, but everything to do with Serbian expansionism against Albanians.

This idea of "Muslims" is simply an excuse you people use.

You keep forgetting. Ottoman succeeded because of Serbs help. It is Albanians who resisted them that payed for this. Not Serbs!

I do find it odd how shortly after the battle of Kosovo and their defeat, they still cooperated and received some sense of control over the vilayet. Definitely blew the Sultan to retain power. Even handed the Serbian princess over in marriage.