Slavic tribes of Slovakia

[Mingle]

Slovakia's current name (Slovensko) just refers to generic Slavs rather than a particular Slavic tribe. Sometimes, the Slavs that historically inhabited Slovakia are generally referred to as 'Vah Slavs' (named after the Vah River Basin), but that is also not a tribal name but just a name coined to differentiate them. Here is an example:

http://www.pgsca.org/files/Maps/SLAV%20Origins_700.jpg

Slovaks were also historically called Tóth by Hungarians but that name just referred to generic Slavs (and later Slovaks) rather than a specific tribe. The term Tóth is of Germanic origin meaning "nation/people" (cognate to Deutsch) and came to Hungarian via the Goths (who lived in Slovakia).

I've also heard that they might have been descended from the "Slavic tribe" known as Moravians, but I doubt there was ever such thing as a Slavic tribe called "Moravians". The only reference to anything related to Moravians is in Byzantine sources regarding Great Morava (Megale Moravia) and it is just a name given by the Byzantines based on their location being around the Morava River rather than it being a tribal name.

So does anyone know about the existence/records of the names of any Slavic tribes of Slovakia?

[Mingle]

Bump

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Slovakia's current name (Slovensko) just refers to generic Slavs rather than a particular Slavic tribe. Sometimes, the Slavs that historically inhabited Slovakia are generally referred to as 'Vah Slavs' (named after the Vah River Basin), but that is also not a tribal name but just a name coined to differentiate them. Here is an example:

Slovaks were also historically called Tóth by Hungarians but that name just referred to generic Slavs (and later Slovaks) rather than a specific tribe. The term Tóth is of Germanic origin meaning "nation/people" (cognate to Deutsch) and came to Hungarian via the Goths (who lived in Slovakia).

I've also heard that they might have been descended from the "Slavic tribe" known as Moravians, but I doubt there was ever such thing as a Slavic tribe called "Moravians". The only reference to anything related to Moravians is in Byzantine sources regarding Great Morava (Megale Moravia) and it is just a name given by the Byzantines based on their location being around the Morava River rather than it being a tribal name.

So does anyone know about the existence/records of the names of any Slavic tribes of Slovakia?

I don't know for any mentioned tribe there. Is there any culture founded in present-day Slovakia?

[Mingle]

I don't know for any mentioned tribe there. Is there any culture founded in present-day Slovakia?I don't know about culture, but the Principality of Nitra was from there.

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[Stears]

Czechs, Poles, Rusyns are the ancestors of the modern day Slovaks

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Czechs, Poles, Rusyns are the ancestors of the modern day Slovaks

Based on what?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I don't know about culture, but the Principality of Nitra was from there.

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Maybe rised-up also by Moravian tribes, but there are no proofs for something like it.

[Stears]

Based on what?

Slovak is the very young ethnonym. Nobody ever heard about the Slovak tribes in the medieval era, because they havent existed.
that is why before the standard Slovakian dialect was created, slavic population in Upper Hungary could not understand each other.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Slovak is the very young ethnonym. Nobody ever heard about the Slovak tribes in the medieval era, because they havent existed.
that is why before the standard Slovakian dialect was created, slavic population in Upper Hungary could not understand each other.

Nodoby even heard for Slavs as ethnic group before 5th century, or even Magyars before 8th century, just becouse they "weren't mentioned" before it by Roman chronicles.

Does it mean that they haven't existed? That is not relevant proof.

[Stears]

Nodoby even heard for Slavs as ethnic group before 5th century, or even Magyars before 8th century, just becouse they "weren't mentioned" before it by Roman chronicles.

Does it mean that they haven't existed? That is not relevant proof.

Wrong. The Rusyns never had own state, but they had known ethnonym even in the medieval era.

[Stears]

Many of the modern slavic countries are not rooted in the history. Traditional slavic countries are Poland, Russia, Bohemia (Czechia), Croatia, Serbia and Bulgaria.

In the reality, the creator of the first Slovak republic was Adolf Hitler.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Wrong. The Rusyns never had own state, but they had known ethnonym even in the medieval era.

What is, then, Kievan Rus ? That isn't a state?

[Stears]

What is, then, Kievan Rus ? That isn't a state?

I was speaking about the east slavic population of the Hungarian upperlands.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Many of the modern slavic countries are not rooted in the history. Traditional slavic countries are Poland, Russia, Bohemia (Czechia), Croatia, Serbia and Bulgaria.

In the reality, the creator of the first Slovak republic was Adolf Hitler.

What about Carantania (Slovenia)?

It's even the first Slavic state.

[Stears]

What about Carantania (Slovenia)?

It's even the first Slavic state.

It was quickly crushed by the Bavarian expansion, so it has no continuity.

[Mingle]

What about Carantania (Slovenia)?

It's even the first Slavic state.What does Slovenia have to do with anything?

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[Vlatko Vukovic]

What does Slovenia have to do with anything?

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He mentioned before the traditional Slavic states.

[Mingle]

Many of the modern slavic countries are not rooted in the history. Traditional slavic countries are Poland, Russia, Bohemia (Czechia), Croatia, Serbia and Bulgaria.

In the reality, the creator of the first Slovak republic was Adolf Hitler.How do you define "rooted in history"? Just cause they may not have had their own kingdom doesn't mean the people didn't exist or anything.

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[Karol Klačansky]

Stears speaks complete BS. Hes basing that off of an already proven false theory by some stupid magyar to justifiy their claims that hungarians were there before us. Its utter nonsense as almost all toponyms in the area are slavic and archealogical evidence shows continuos settlement in the area of slovakia during the middle ages with no new movments.

In western slovakia people belong to the tribe Moravians clearly attested to by mideval sources of the time. Slovak were known though just by there ethnic group for the majority of their existence Slovene/Slovaci. Stears sayint they are never mentioned is a massive lie. Even in St. Cyrils poem Proglas does he mention the "slovensky Narod"

i izběžati otъ ogni gorǫšta,
slyšite nyně otъ svojego uma,
slyšite slověnьskъ narodъ vьsь,
slyšite slovo, otъ Boga prijde,
slovo že krъmę člověčьskyję dušę,

[Mingle]

Stears speaks complete BS. Hes basing that off of an already proven false theory by some stupid magyar to justifiy their claims that hungarians were there before us. Its utter nonsense as almost all toponyms in the area are slavic and archealogical evidence shows continuos settlement in the area of slovakia during the middle ages with no new movments.

Yeah, I don't believe that Hungarians lived there before Slavs. I was just asking about the tribe names.


In western slovakia people belong to the tribe Moravians clearly attested to by mideval sources of the time.

You're right. I mentioned Moravians in my original post, but forgot that they also had a tribe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravians_(tribe)

You say that Moravians lived in western Slovakia. What about in eastern Slovakia? Who lived there?


Slovak were known though just by there ethnic group for the majority of their existence Slovene/Slovaci. Stears sayint they are never mentioned is a massive lie. Even in St. Cyrils poem Proglas does he mention the "slovensky Narod"

i izběžati otъ ogni gorǫšta,
slyšite nyně otъ svojego uma,
slyšite slověnьskъ narodъ vьsь,
slyšite slovo, otъ Boga prijde,
slovo že krъmę člověčьskyję dušę,

As far as I know, the term Slovensky just referred to Slavs in general. Even Serbs call themselves "Sloven". Using that term to refer to specifically Slovaks seems to be a more recent thing.

[Rethel]

Słowaks are just Słowaks. It is their tribal name. Sometimes is differentiated
yet tribe Nitreans. That's all. If there were some tribes, the their names were
not preserved. In Poland it is suspected that existed some 50 tribes, but we
know only 1/4 of them. Rest are everntualy artificial names, like this name
"Vag Slavs" or maybe also Nitreans.

But later there are a lot of regions which can be discribed.
Like Orawa, Spisz, Liptów, Nitrean Duchy aso...

[Karol Klačansky]

Yeah, I'm don't believe that Hungarians lived there before Slavs. I was just asking about the tribe names.



You're right. I mentioned Moravians in my original post, but forgot that they also had a tribe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravians_(tribe)

You say that Moravians lived in western Slovakia. What about in eastern Slovakia? Who lived there?



As far as I know, the term Slovensky just referred to Slavs in general. Even Serbs call themselves "Sloven". Using that term to refer to specifically Slovaks seems to be a more recent thing.

No Slovaks being referred to as Slovaci or Slovene is not a recent thing. Czechs, moravians, and poles already had different terms for their nationalities at the time of great Moravia. Slovaks kept the orignal name Slovene and it became their official name then. Just because it was a term that could be used to refer to all slavs does not mean it didnt have a second and more specific meaning when reffering to Slovaks, which it did as Czechs and Poles used the term slovene many times to refer to slavs in present day slovakia and only to them.

West Slovakia and Modern day czech Moravia were the core of great Moravia and they were called Moravians many times in history. Eastern slovaks are not mentioned unfortunately at this time, but later on we see that all northern slavs of hungary were reffered to as Slovene including them

[Stears]

Yeah, I don't believe that Hungarians lived there before Slavs.

Idiot, nobody said Hungarians were there before Slavs, but those slavs were heterogenous mass without clearly defined idenitity. Learn to read.

[Mingle]

Idiot, nobody said Hungarians were there before Slavs, but those slavs were heterogenous mass without clearly defined idenitity. Learn to read.

I don't disagree with you on that. The other user was the one that brought up who was there earlier. I thought he was talking about Slavs in general.

[Sekkmer]

...

[Mingle]

Idiot, nobody said Hungarians were there before Slavs, but those slavs were heterogenous mass without clearly defined idenitity. Learn to read.Do you know around what year the Slovak identity came into existence by the way?

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[blogen]

Slovaks were also historically called Tóth by Hungarians but that name just referred to generic Slavs (and later Slovaks) rather than a specific tribe. The term Tóth is of Germanic origin meaning "nation/people" (cognate to Deutsch) and came to Hungarian via the Goths (who lived in Slovakia).

The tót (Tóth is a personal name) ethnonym came from the teut name of the Germans, who were the rulers of the Slavs in the western part of the Carpathian basin. The tót was the name of the Slavonian, Pannonian, and Moravian Slavs between the Magyars. We use this name exclusively to the Slovaks since the 19th century only.


I've also heard that they might have been descended from the "Slavic tribe" known as Moravians, but I doubt there was ever such thing as a Slavic tribe called "Moravians". The only reference to anything related to Moravians is in Byzantine sources regarding Great Morava (Megale Moravia) and it is just a name given by the Byzantines based on their location being around the Morava River rather than it being a tribal name.

We have placename from the present Western-Slovakia with the moraβt --> marót ethnonym, what territory was presumably the maximum extent of the Moravian rule: Hontmarót (https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hontianske_Moravce), Aranyosmarót (https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zlat%C3%A9_Moravce), Kismarót (destroyed village near Egeg (https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokovce)), Pilismarót (https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilismar%C3%B3t), Marót (destroyed village near Nyergesújfalu (https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyerges%C3%BAjfalu))

These settlements are along a line, presumably the former Moravian-Bulgarian border from the late 9th century, because the Bulgarian placenames and lingual-effect is beginning on the eastern side of this line ("pest" means cave placenames, Bulgarian etnonyms as placenames, etc.). So the local Slavs were presumably not Moravians, but Slavs under Moravian rule only, since the Moravian ethnonym as placename concentrated only along the former border, where was a significance of this name.

[blogen]

In western slovakia people belong to the tribe Moravians clearly attested to by mideval sources of the time.

The territory yes, but not the local Slavs, who where presumably not Moravians! The ethnic Moravians lived in the Morava valley, and not the territory of the present Western-Slovakia. They conquered this territory to the present Central-Slovakia, where they met with the Bulgarian conquerors, but this was a political situation only (the Slavs on the Bulgarian side were also not Bulgarians, only Slavs under Bulgarian rule and cultural influence).

The Bulgarian situation in the late 9th century:
https://i.img.ie/0hL.jpg
Early Hungarian placename with Bulgarian etnonym
Early Hungarian placename with Bulgarian origin placename
Early Hungarian placename with Bulgarian lingual influence (effect from the Bulgarian Slavic dialect) (white)

The Moravian situation in the late 9th century:
https://i.img.ie/0rh.jpg
Early Hungarian placename with the Moravian etnonym

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Early Hungarian placename with the Moravian etnonym[/COLOR]

That allude on what according to you?

[blogen]

That allude on what according to you?

Rácz Anita: Adatok a népnévvel alakult régi magyar településnevek történetéhez (Data to the old Hungarian toponyms with ethnonyms) - Debrecen University Press, 2011
Rácz Anita: Etnonímák a régi magyar településnevekben (Ethnonyms in the old Hungarian toponyms) - Debrecen University Press, 2016

[blogen]

That allude on what according to you?

Rácz Anita: Adatok a népnévvel alakult régi magyar településnevek történetéhez (Data to the old Hungarian toponyms with ethnonyms) - Debrecen University Press, 2011
Rácz Anita: Etnonímák a régi magyar településnevekben (Ethnonyms in the old Hungarian toponyms) - Debrecen University Press, 2016

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Rácz Anita: Adatok a népnévvel alakult régi magyar településnevek történetéhez (Data to the old Hungarian toponyms with ethnonyms) - Debrecen University Press, 2011
Rácz Anita: Etnonímák a régi magyar településnevekben (Ethnonyms in the old Hungarian toponyms) - Debrecen University Press, 2016

Are there translations for both scripts?

[blogen]

Are there translations for both scripts?

These are long lists of the toponyms with the medieval mentions with explanatory parts. Only in Hungarian sadly.

[blogen]

So, there were not Slavic tribes in the Carpathian-basin in the 9th century, only Slavic population. The reasion was simply: the tribe is a political body, while the local political entities were Romans (Germans), Moravians and Bulgarians and not the local peoples products. And when the locals had political body, then they were the Avars and not Slavs! So the local Slavs lived under somebody others rule everytime without own political body.

Maybe the Slavonian Slavs were the only exception with their 9th century principalty (https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szlav%C3%B3niai_hercegs%C3%A9g), what was part of the Roman Empire (Germans). This is the reason maybe of the Slavonic tribal names' deficiency from this region.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

So the local Slavs lived under somebody others rule everytime without own political body.

Yes, that's true indeed. But i don't know the reason for it. They were under Avar khaganate and they're even liberated from them under Frankish ruler called "Samo", and formed Samo's Empire. I mean in central Europe and partly Balkans.

[Karol Klačansky]

Yes, that's true indeed. But i don't know the reason for it. They were under Avar khaganate and they're even liberated from them under Frankish ruler called "Samo", and formed Samo's Empire. I mean in central Europe and partly Balkans.Dont even respond to these hungarian fanatics. In the 9th century you had Pribina a slav ruling slavs in nitra. He was taken over by rastislav and svätopluk who were slavs leading other slavs(moravians).these hungarian fanatics will lie at all costs to claim slovaks have no claim to the area. They are delusional and obsessed with trying to tear down slovaks and other former nations of the kingdom of hungary.

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[Vlatko Vukovic]

Dont even respond to these hungarian fanatics. In the 9th century you had Pribina a slav ruling slavs in nitra. He was taken over by rastislav and svätopluk who were slavs leading other slavs(moravians).these hungarian fanatics will lie at all costs to claim slovaks have no claim to the area. They are delusional and obsessed with trying to tear down slovaks and other former nations of the kingdom of hungary.

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Yes. I agree with you too. But there is some truth also that Slavs were usually under other's rule in the 6th-7th centuries. In the 9th century, for example, they had many known rulers of Slavic origin.

[blogen]

Yes, that's true indeed. But i don't know the reason for it. They were under Avar khaganate and they're even liberated from them under Frankish ruler called "Samo", and formed Samo's Empire. I mean in central Europe and partly Balkans.

The Avars rule was solid over the basin until their catastrophe, Samo conquered their vassal territories in the present Czech land and their lands in the Morava valley, but not in the basin. Even the Moravians were conquerors here after the fall of the Kaganate.

And the "liberated" word is a totally fals narrative, the Slavs were the beneficiary of the Avar realm, even their story in the Danube valley and the Balkan started with the Avar conquest and the fall of the German kingdoms. The collapse of the kaganate was a catastrophe for them too, since foreign conquerors came to their territory (Moravians, Bulgarians, Franks). The local Slavs lived in a symbiosis with the Avars culturally and politically. Avaro-Slavic (avar-szláv) is the term to this symbiosis in the archeology.

[Karol Klačansky]

The Avars rule was solid over the basin until their catastrophe, Samo conquered their vassal territories in the present Czech land and their lands in the Morava valley, but not in the basin. Even the Moravians were conquerors here after the fall of the Kaganate.

And the "liberated" word is a totally fals narrative, the Slavs were the beneficiary of the Avar realm, even their story in the Danube valley and the Balkan started with the Avar conquest and the fall of the German kingdoms. The collapse of the kaganate was a catastrophe for them too, since foreign conquerors came to their territory (Moravians, Bulgarians, Franks). The local Slavs lived in a symbiosis with the Avars culturally and politically. Avaro-Slavic (avar-szláv) is the term to this symbiosis in the archeology.Yea it was so beneficial to them thats why they all united under Samo to defeat them. Moravians were foreigners? What utter nonsense

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[Vlatko Vukovic]

Avaro-Slavic (avar-szláv) is the term to this symbiosis in the archeology.

You mean South Slav, in this case?

Becouse i don't think that early East Slavs, or West Slavs had any kind of "symbiosis" with the Avars.

[blogen]

Dont even respond to these hungarian fanatics. In the 9th century you had Pribina a slav ruling slavs in nitra. He was taken over by rastislav and svätopluk who were slavs leading other slavs(moravians).these hungarian fanatics will lie at all costs to claim slovaks have no claim to the area. They are delusional and obsessed with trying to tear down slovaks and other former nations of the kingdom of hungary.

Pribina was a Moravian prince (markgraf maybe in the Moravian hierarchy) and not the local Slavs leaders. They ruled the Nyitra region because he was the local representative of the Moravian power in the most important borderland against the Bulgarians. He served the Franks and the Bulgarians after his fall as prince of Nitra.

[Stears]

You mean South Slav, in this case?

Becouse i don't think that early East Slavs, or West Slavs had any kind of "symbiosis" with the Avars.

the ancestors of Slovaks had. That is why modern Slovaks have more mongoloid haplogroup markers, than the Hungarians.

[Karol Klačansky]

Pribina was a Moravian prince (markgraf maybe in the Moravian hierarchy) and not the local Slavs leaders. They ruled the Nyitra region because he was the local representative of the Moravian power in the most important borderland against the Bulgarians. He served the Franks and the Bulgarians after his fall as prince of Nitra.No he wasnt lol, if he was part of the moravian heirarchy then why did he flee to panonia when the moravians defeated him?

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[blogen]

You mean South Slav, in this case?
Becouse i don't think that early East Slavs, or West Slavs had any kind of "symbiosis" with the Avars.

A part of the Avars and/or Slavs in the 8-10th century Carpathian basin with mixed culture and unknown language. Maybe a part of them were partially Slavic origin (ancestry), Avar (identity) with Avar (ethnicity) language, and an another part was mostly Slavic origin (ancestry), Avar (identity) with Slavic (ethnicity) language.

Avaro-Slavs lived in Transdanubia, Little-Hungarian Plain and Transsylvania. But the ethnic situation was very complex in the 9th century for example (and under the Kaganate also). The Slav was the majority at this time, but lot of Avars, Avaro-Slavs, various Turks, Germans lived in the basin at this time.

The South-Slavs was a different story. They were the real winners of the Avaro-Byzantine wars and the rule of the early Kaganate. Their aristocracy was partially Avar maybe, but their story was independent from the Kaganate after the early times of the conquest of the Balkan (and their was a Bulgarian story).

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Pribina was a Moravian prince (markgraf maybe in the Moravian hierarchy) and not the local Slavs leaders. They ruled the Nyitra region because he was the local representative of the Moravian power in the most important borderland against the Bulgarians. He served the Franks and the Bulgarians after his fall as prince of Nitra.

Yes, and i also forgot to ask: "How the Moravians were foreigner to South Slavs, or in this more accurate case, of Pannonian Slavs" ?

[Karol Klačansky]

You mean South Slav, in this case?

Becouse i don't think that early East Slavs, or West Slavs had any kind of "symbiosis" with the Avars.West slavs slovakia and the czech rep qere ruled by avars. Samo a frank had success with the slavs because he united them against the avars and defeated them.

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[Vlatko Vukovic]

A part of the Avars and/or Slavs in the 8-10th century Carpathian basin with mixed culture and unknown language. Maybe a part of them were partially Slavic origin (ancestry), Avar (identity) with Avar (ethnicity) language, and an another part was mostly Slavic origin (ancestry), Avar (identity) with Slavic (ethnicity) language.

Avaro-Slavs lived in Transdanubia, Little-Hungarian Plain and Transsylvania. But the ethnic situation was very complex in the 9th century for example (and under the Kaganate also). The Slav was the majority at this time, but lot of Avars, Avaro-Slavs, various Turks, Germans lived in the basin at this time.

The South-Slavs was a different story. They were the real winners of the Avaro-Byzantine wars and the rule of the early Kaganate. Their aristocracy was partially Avar maybe, but their story was independent from the Kaganate after the early times of the conquest of the Balkan (and their was a Bulgarian story).

So, do East Slavic tribes had any relations/contacts with the previous Avar khaganate in the archeological aspect, or any other? Or the Avar khaganate was directly determinted for Pannonian Slavs?

[blogen]

No he wasnt lol, if he was part of the moravian heirarchy then why did he flee to panonia when the moravians defeated him?

Because Pannonia was under Frankish rule, his wife was Frankish origin and his political conspiration against the Moravians was a Frankish policy? Yes, these were the reasons.

[blogen]

So, do East Slavic tribes had any relations/contacts with the previous Avar khaganate in the archeological aspect, or any other? Or the Avar khaganate was directly determinted for Pannonian Slavs?

Rich Avar burials from the Balkan is the only sign of the Avar aristocracy's presence at this time. But this is a solid sign, so presumably the early South-Slav leaders were partially Avar origin. The Avars ruled the Balkan directly after the Avaro-Byzantine wars and the Balkan was not part of the Avar kaganate later. They destroyed the Byzantine power over the peninsula, but basically not for himself. The South-Slavs history started with their war, but without them.

The first Slavs arrived to the Carpathian-basin under the Avar rule, their migration was part of the Avars antibyzantine policy (Slavic settlers to the former Byzantine land, agaist the Byzantine reconquest). But their ancestors were not wandering towards to south, but settled under the direct Avar rule besides the various German and Roman elements and this was the reality for them in next two hundreds of years. The Kaganate was the country, the home for the Pannonian, Highlander and Transsylvanian Slavs.

[Karol Klačansky]

Because Pannonia was under Frankish rule, his wife was Frankish origin and his political conspiration against the Moravians was a Frankish policy? Yes, these were the reasons.

where is your evidence that he wasnt a local slavic leader? The moravians and slavs of Nitra were the exact same people at that time period, nobody made any difference between them when it came to language or ethnicity. The only difference was the kingdoms they belonged to. The moravians were not considered foreign what so ever by them.

one thing is for sure. Slavs were already in modern day slovakia,hungary,and czech republic long before magyars came.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Rich Avar burials from the Balkan is the only sign of the Avar aristocracy's presence at this time. But this is a solid sign, so presumably the early South-Slav leaders were partially Avar origin. The Avars ruled the Balkan directly after the Avaro-Byzantine wars and the Balkan was not part of the Avar kaganate later. They destroyed the Byzantine power over the peninsula, but basically not for himself. The South-Slavs history started with their war, but without them.

The first Slavs arrived to the Carpathian-basin under the Avar rule, their migration was part of the Avars antibyzantine policy (Slavic settlers to the former Byzantine land, agaist the Byzantine reconquest). But their ancestors were not wandering towards to south, but settled under the direct Avar rule besides the various German and Roman elements and this was the reality for them in next two hundreds of years. The Kaganate was the country, the home for the Pannonian, Highlander and Transsylvanian Slavs.

So, my conclusion is that East Slavs and West Slavs didn't have connection with Avar khaganate ?! while pannonian Slavs had, and partially South Slavs.

There is some evidance, i can't find now, that Croats and Serbs are paid by Byzantium to fight Avars, and that's the reason why they migrated from White Serbia/White Croatia towards the Balkans.

[Stears]

So, my conclusion is that East Slavs and West Slavs didn't have connection with Avar khaganate ?! while pannonian Slavs had, and partially South Slavs.

There is some evidance, i can't find now, that Croats and Serbs are paid by Byzantium to fight Avars, and that's the reason why they migrated from White Serbia/White Croatia towards the Balkans.

panonnian slavs were southern slavs. they had no relations with the so called slovaks

[Karol Klačansky]

panonnian slavs were southern slavs. they had no relations with the so called slovaks

:picard1:

yea sure, thats why most linguists see evidence of a genetic continuum between slovak and south slavic languages that predated the invasion of the magyars

[Vlatko Vukovic]

panonnian slavs were southern slavs. they had no relations with the so called slovaks

How much you are sure in that?

[Stears]

:picard1:

yea sure, thats why most linguists see evidence of a genetic continuum between slovak and south slavic languages that predated the invasion of the magyars

slovak language has proven southern slavic substratum, and that is because of the panonnian slavs who lived in the carpathian basin.

[Karol Klačansky]

slovak language has proven southern slavic substratum, and that is because of the panonnian slavs who lived in the carpathian basin.

haha what nonsesne. Or its because there was nothing seperating slovaks and southern slavs before maygars came from asia and destroyed everything. Keep spreading around your lies

[Stears]

How much you are sure in that?

they were southern slavs, but not croatians or the slovenes, but indipendent tribe. however slovak nationalists try to prove they were the so called proto slovaks, which is laughable tale.

[blogen]

The moravians and slavs of Nitra were the exact same people at that time period

There is no evidence for this. The Moravians were conquerors here after the fall of the Kaganate. The Moravian ethnonyms as placenames exists only on former Moravian-Bulgarian borderland, etc. The identification of the local Slavs as Moravians is a baseless theory. The Moravian rule over the present Western Slovakia was a clear fact only. The local Slavs lived under Avar rule until 823. They were Avar politically (Slavs or Avaro-Slavs ethnically), their whole leadership were part of the Avar nobilty, they fought with the Avars, they lived with the Avars. After two hundreds of years, the Moravians conquered them for 75 years until the Magyar conquest and they miraculously transformed to Moravians! Pls! :D

Even the presumably Moravian origin Pribina's faith with their anti-Moravian policy is clear sign of the local's political orientation.

The greatmoravianism is nothing more than the product of the Czech nationalism, a beautiful picture about a mythical Slavonic ethos. The reality was much more different! The Slavs were not a big and happy family. Never.

[blogen]

So, my conclusion is that East Slavs and West Slavs didn't have connection with Avar khaganate ?! while pannonian Slavs had, and partially South Slavs. There is some evidance, i can't find now, that Croats and Serbs are paid by Byzantium to fight Avars, and that's the reason why they migrated from White Serbia/White Croatia towards the Balkans.

A part of the West-Slavs were taxpayers and allies. This is the reason of the Croatian/Serbian white/black question. A part of them were participants of the Avar's antibyzantine policy: the Slavonic migration to the Balkan. But only in the early Avar times presumably. We don't know what was the usual Avar policy towards the West Slavs in the course of the Kaganate after the early times.

Presumably the Morava-valley was a contact zone or sometimes conflict zone between the Avars and the West-Slavs.

[blogen]

haha what nonsesne. Or its because there was nothing seperating slovaks and southern slavs before maygars came from asia and destroyed everything. Keep spreading around your lies

Nothing, only the Avars or Franks. Some powerful entity only. :D

Stears is a lunatic, but not Stears is the only lunatic in here...

[Karol Klačansky]

There is no evidence for this. The Moravians were conquerors here after the fall of the Kaganate. The Moravian ethnonyms as placenames exists only on former Moravian-Bulgarian borderland, etc. The identification of the local Slavs as Moravians is a baseless theory. The Moravian rule over the present Western Slovakia was a clear fact only. The local Slavs lived under Avar rule until 823. They were Avar politically (Slavs or Avaro-Slavs ethnically), their whole leadership were part of the Avar nobilty, they fought with the Avars, they lived with the Avars. After two hundreds of years, the Moravians conquered them for 75 years until the Magyar conquest and they miraculously transformed to Moravians! Pls! :D

Even the presumably Moravian origin Pribina's faith with their anti-Moravian policy is clear sign of the local's political orientation.

The greatmoravianism is nothing more than the product of the Czech nationalism, a beautiful picture about a mythical Slavonic ethos. The reality was much more different! The Slavs were not a big and happy family. Never.You hungarians are a lost people. Central europeans who completely lost their native culture and language to a stupid asian tribe. Now you want to convince us natives who know our culture and where we come from that we arent who we think we are. You guys are so insecure and deluded. Great moravians were my ancestors and have nothing to do with maygars keep believing lies and using central asians in your profile pics, you have no.ancestry from maygars or central asians.

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[Stears]

haha what nonsesne. Or its because there was nothing seperating slovaks and southern slavs before maygars came from asia and destroyed everything. Keep spreading around your lies

We come from northeastern Europe, monkey slovak troll. the proof for your southern slavic influenced language is here

''The position of Central Slovak as a dialect complex that exhibits major deviations
from what is generally thought of as West Slavic is generally acknowledged, and the
conclusion appears in the majority of cases to be that Central Slovak was primarily a
South Slavic idiom with a considerable number of West Slavic features.

https://books.google.hu/books?id=_elEAAAAIAAJ&q=slovak+language&dq=slovak+language&hl=hu&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidjZz31qDYAhXQhrQKHUz6BuYQ6AEIXDAI

[Karol Klačansky]

Nothing, only the Avars or Franks. Some powerful entity only. :D

Stears is a lunatic, but not Stears is the only lunatic in here...Avars were a minority ruling slavs and franks were not in pannonia lol. Samo was a frank but he ruled only slavs.

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[Karol Klačansky]

We come from northeastern Europe, monkey slovak troll. the proof for your southern slavic influenced language is here

''The position of Central Slovak as a dialect complex that exhibits major deviations
from what is generally thought of as West Slavic is generally acknowledged, and the
conclusion appears in the majority of cases to be that Central Slovak was primarily a
South Slavic idiom with a considerable number of West Slavic features.

https://books.google.hu/books?id=_elEAAAAIAAJ&q=slovak+language&dq=slovak+language&hl=hu&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidjZz31qDYAhXQhrQKHUz6BuYQ6AEIXDAIYou idiot. Who is denying that slovak has a connection to south slavs? But thats because back.then there was no divide between.us and them, slavs in slovakia and slavs in pannonia were the same, debil.

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[Stears]

Nothing, only the Avars or Franks. Some powerful entity only. :D

Stears is a lunatic, but not Stears is the only lunatic in here...

Say the stupid proletarian Blogen.

[Stears]

You hungarians are a lost people. Central europeans who completely lost their native culture and language to a stupid asian tribe. Now you want to convince us natives who know our culture and where we come from that we arent who we think we are. You guys are so insecure and deluded. Great moravians were my ancestors and have nothing to do with maygars keep believing lies and using central asians in your profile pics, you have no.ancestry from maygars or central asians.

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Your ancestors were mountain sheperd tribsmen, who live the same lifestyle like the balkan vlachs, and who have not left any trace in the high culture of the upper Hungary.

Live with it.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

A part of the West-Slavs were taxpayers and allies. This is the reason of the Croatian/Serbian white/black question. A part of them were participants of the Avar's antibyzantine policy: the Slavonic migration to the Balkan. But only in the early Avar times presumably. We don't know what was the usual Avar policy towards the West Slavs in the course of the Kaganate after the early times.

Presumably the Morava-valley was a contact zone or sometimes conflict zone between the Avars and the West-Slavs.

And what about East Slavic tribes in that time? What was their relations (did they even have some) with Avar kaghanate?

[Karol Klačansky]

Your ancestors were mountain sheperd tribsmen, who live the same lifestyle like the balkan vlachs, and who have not left any trace in the high culture of the upper Hungary.

Live with it.Who is ashamed of vlach ancestry? Vlachs were a.good and noble european people, everyone speaks good of them in history.

If magyars are from NE europe then why are their closest linguistic relatives all east of the urals? Franks described magyars as asian scum. They were first hand witnesses to your non europeanness

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[Stears]

You idiot. Who is denying that slovak has a connection to south slavs? But thats because back.then there was no divide between.us and them, slavs in slovakia and slavs in pannonia were the same, debil.

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I do not think your rusyn or polish ancestors have relation with the panonnian slavs, and that is why you are genetically not close to Hungarians, but with the eastern slavs.

[Stears]

blah blah blah

Franks described Hungarians as such, because we have defeated them many times. so they were afraid.

deal with the fact, Khanty and Mansy people were forced to the Siberia by the russian expansion to native finno ugric lands in europe. other than them, all the other finno ugric speakers live in Europe.

check mate.

[Karol Klačansky]

I do not think your rusyn or polish ancestors have relation with the panonnian slavs, and that is why you are genetically not close to Hungarians, but with the eastern slavs.If we are rusyn and polish then why do we have a southern slavic influenced language? Neither poles nor rusyns do.

Slovaks are closer to eastern slavs? Slovaks are halfway in between poles and hungarians genetically.

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[Vlatko Vukovic]

If we are rusyn and polish then why do we have a southern slavic influenced language? Neither poles nor rusyns do.

Slovaks are closer to eastern slavs? Slovaks are halfway in between poles and hungarians genetically.

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You're R1a-M458. Typical for Western Slavs. Don't worry. :D

[Stears]

If we are rusyn and polish then why do we have a southern slavic influenced language? Neither poles nor rusyns do.

Slovaks are closer to eastern slavs? Slovaks are halfway in between poles and hungarians genetically.

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You are mixature of many different slavic tribes, and some non slavs too.

[blogen]

You hungarians are a lost people. Central europeans who completely lost their native culture and language to a stupid asian tribe. Now you want to convince us natives who know our culture and where we come from that we arent who we think we are. You guys are so insecure and deluded. Great moravians were my ancestors and have nothing to do with maygars keep believing lies and using central asians in your profile pics, you have no.ancestry from maygars or central asians.

Ok, so you are a Stears 2. :D

[Stears]

You're R1a-M458. Typical for Western Slavs. Don't worry. :D

however slovaks are swarthier than the czechs and poles :)

[blogen]

And what about East Slavic tribes in that time? What was their relations (did they even have some) with Avar kaghanate?

Noboy knows. There were contacts based on the archeological artifacts from both territory is the only fact.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

however slovaks are swarthier than the czechs and poles :)

So what?

French people are swarthier than Saami people, does it mean that Saami are more European or what?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Noboy knows. There were contacts based on the archeological artifacts from both territory is the only fact.

Yea, but the archeological evidance of the Avar kaghanate and of the East Slavic tribes seems very different.

[blogen]

Yea, but the archeological evidance of the Avar kaghanate and of the East Slavic tribes seems very different.

Yes, of course. We talk about some jewelry, buckle-type etc.

[Karol Klačansky]

however slovaks are swarthier than the czechs and poles :)

because we have more balkanic influence from our panonnian slavic ancestors.