Origins of ''Theodora'' name

[Blossom]

I've been reading around and, seems like the name got greek ancestry and/or teutonical? It's weird, there are two roots I wonder:
-Theodoric (teutonic name)
-Theodore (greek name)

I dont understand how two different cultures (at least apparently) can have such seemed name?
Why the teutons got 'Theodoric' just male name? Or was there a female version?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodoric
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_(given_name)

Does anyone know how's this...?

[Heretik]

Possible explanation no.1:
Theos (θεός) = God in Greek, so the root is probably Greek.

[Blossom]

Theos / θεός = God in Greek, so the root is probably Greek.

And what about the teutonic side?
There were important teutons with the same root on their name:

Well-known bearers of the name Theodoric include:

Theodoric I (died 451), king of the Visigoths
Theodoric II (died 466), king of the Visigoths
Theodoric the Great (454-526), ruler of the Ostrogoths, Italy, and the Visigoths
Theodoric Strabo (died 481)
Theuderic I (died ca. 534), Frankish king
Theuderic II (587-613), Frankish king
Theuderic III (died 691), king of the Franks
Theuderic IV (died 737), king of the Franks
Theodric of Bernicia, 6th century Anglo-Saxon king
Saint Tewdrig (alternatively Tewdric or Theodoric) (c. 580 - c. 630), Welsh king of Gwent and Glywysing, who was martyred fighting the Saxons
Antipope Theodoric (died 1102)
Theodoric of Chartres (12th century), philosopher
Theodoric the Monk (12th century), Norwegian Benedictine
Theoderich (Bishop of Estonia), 13th century bishop
Theodoric of Prague (14th century), court painter to Charles IV
Theodoric of Freiberg (14th century), theologian and scientist


And also important greeks. But I just found an interesting thing in Wikipedia.
On Theodoric post:

The name of the English Tudor royal dynasty is derived from the Welsh Tudur, which is in turn probably derived from the Celtic Teutorigos, which is cognate with Theodoric and carries much the same meaning.

On Theodore post:

In Welsh, Tudor (in older sources spelt 'Tewdwr'), which also became a surname.

In Welsh? Then both of them got same origin?

[Heretik]

Well, it has been explained in that Wikipedia article you gave.

[Loki]

Well, it has been explained in that Wikipedia article you gave.

Yes, it seems to be a mere coincidence ... quite odd.

Germanic: þeudo ("people") and rīks ("ruler")

Greek: Greek Θεόδωρος (Theodōros), meaning 'God-gift'

Thus, not related at all in meaning, but almost identical in looks. :)

[Blossom]

I still think this hides something mystical under all these matches...:D

[Heretik]

I would usually "blame" proto IE language or Sanskrit but this is not an option here. :D

[Blossom]

Damn guys I wanted this to be an investigation :ranger:...and you already got things done! No no no...There's something more. Why 2 cultures got the same name (almost)...? Mmmmm.

Some other opinion? Cmon...!:gossip:

[Heretik]

Let's wait for some resident linguists. :D

[Psychonaut]

Let's wait for some resident linguists. :D

Like Loki said, it's just a case of homophony. It's not an uncommon occurrence, even among languages with no genealogical connexions at all. Like the word mama used by many IE languages is in no way connected to the Mandarin 妈妈 māmā, even though the meaning and pronunciation is nearly identical.

[Blossom]

Like Loki said, it's just a case of homophony. It's not an uncommon occurrence, even among languages with no genealogical connexions at all. Like the word mama used by many IE languages is in no way connected to the Mandarin 妈妈 māmā, even though the meaning and pronunciation is nearly identical.

Yes but, the 2 words you said dont mean the same thing. Right? (I just ask.)
But the names I'm talking about, are both names, it was OK if one of them was a name and the other one would be an adjective. Then would be a case of homophony.

[Heretik]

Like Loki said, it's just a case of homophony. It's not an uncommon occurrence, even among languages with no genealogical connexions at all. Like the word mama used by many IE languages is in no way connected to the Mandarin 妈妈 māmā, even though the meaning and pronunciation is nearly identical.
At least I can connect mama to Sanskrit. Ma or mata means mother and mama (majka) in Croatian means, surprise, surprise, mother. :D

[Psychonaut]

Yes but, the 2 words you said dont mean the same thing. Right? (I just ask.)

Actually, they do. But, the point is that the identical pronunciations (homophony) developed completely independently—that they do not share a common linguistic root.


But the names I'm talking about, are both names, it was OK if one of them was a name and the other one would be an adjective. Then would be a case of homophony.

Relative homophony that gives the false impression of linguistic relatedness occurs among names all the time too. The Chinese name 蘇 Sū and the English Sue are pronounced identically but share no genealogical link. It occurs in other IE names whose modern forms imply that they are related due to relative homophony but are not. Like, the Slavic name Marik, which stems from the Latin God Mars' name. It seems like a good match with the English Merrick, right? Nope. Merrick's root is something like mari (fame) + ric (power), and is wholly Germanic.

[Blossom]

Damn. Well, I agree with you P. but still, this is Europe...maybe there's a hidden invasion of teutons on Greece? Haha...this drives me crazy. Too weird for me. :embarrassed

[Stygian Cellarius]

Actually, they do. But, the point is that the identical pronunciations (homophony) developed completely independently—that they do not share a common linguistic root.

You sure about that?

It wouldn't surprise me if even a Neanderthal babe's first word was "ma-ma".

Once that "word" appeared in hominid "language". I could imagine it sticking around for alot longer than words established in colloquial language.

Or just because of our shared psychological and vocal evolution. Somehow resulting in that combination of sounds offering the lowest resistance for word-formation.

I wonder if any African languages use "ma-ma", with the same meaning?

I suppose all this could be easy to figure out if i just Google a bit.

[Psychonaut]

You sure about that?

It wouldn't surprise me if even a Neanderthal babe's first word was "ma-ma".

Once that "word" appeared in hominid "language". I could imagine it sticking around for alot longer than words established in colloquial language.

Or just because of our shared psychological and vocal evolution. Somehow resulting in that combination of sounds offering the lowest resistance for word-formation.

I wonder if any African languages use "ma-ma", with the same meaning?

I suppose all this could be easy to figure out if i just Google a bit.

It looks like there's some consensus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mama_and_papa) that "the basic kinship terms mama and papa are said to comprise a special case of false cognates. The cross-linguistic similarities between these terms are thought to result from the nature of language acquisition."

[Comte Arnau]

While I agree that the two just look like simple coincidences developed independently, it's also true that people 'understand' foreign names in a way that evokes them something related to their culture (or something they know). So a Roman who latinizes Theudo-rik as Theodoricus might have had the Greek name of Theodoros in mind.

And I think that's as much as a connection can be made. :D

[Osweo]

LOOK:
Both names are of two componants, and here is how they break down;

Theodore = Theo + Doros (God + Gift)

Theodoricus = Theodo + Ricus. (Folk + Ruler)

See the -do-? It is in a different part in the different names. That the FINAL result is similar is just a coincidence.

The meanings are utterly different, 'God's Gift' and 'Ruler of the Folk'. If we put 'God's Gift' into Germanic, we would get the Old English name 'God-Gyfu' (better known in the Latinised form of Lady Godiva). Godgyfu was a woman's name, however.

***********

The Germanic name only looks so familiar in (Latinised) Gothic. If we look at the cognate in Old English, we get Theodric. In German, it became Dietrich. Much more different looking. I believe that it became Thierry en francais - even more different.

***************

The Gothic King we know as Theodoric lived among Romans, and his name was preserved for history by literate Christians who assimilated his name to the more familar Greek name, anyway.

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Tudor is related distantly to the Germanic name. Teuta- is the Celtic cognate of Germanic Theodo-, both of which were inherited from a common Indo-European root.

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Additionally, the Greek 'th' and the Germanic 'th' had rather different sounds. The Greek one was rather more like a T but with a H added to it, as an 'aspiration', as I understand it. I'm no expert on Greek, but that's what I think I read on the pronunciation of 'theta' in Ancient Greek. Modern Greek is quite transformed in phonetics.

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NEXT, PLEASE!

[Turkophagos]

Theodora is the female version of the greek name Theodoros, which means "God's gift".

Theodoricus is some barbaric jibber-jabber.

[Blossom]

I see...interesting Osweo...I know someone called Theodoricus and also another one (girl) called Theodora. People think Theodora name is pretty ugly...I wonder why.

[Comte Arnau]

People think Theodora name is pretty ugly...I wonder why.

Maybe the same people think Dorothy is nice. :p

[Heretik]

Tudor is related distantly to the Germanic name. Teuta- is the Celtic cognate of Germanic Theodo-, both of which were inherited from a common Indo-European root.

***********

Teuta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teuta_of_Illyria)

Tudors are Illyrian! :p :D

NEXT PLEASE

[Osweo]

I see...interesting Osweo...I know someone called Theodoricus and also another one (girl) called Theodora.
A chance similarity, really. The boy is of what nationality? I'd like to give an old Germanic name to a son of mine... :p

How does it end up in Spanish? Teodorico?

People think Theodora name is pretty ugly...I wonder why.
People are stupid. :shrug: :D

[Osweo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teuta_of_Illyria

Tudors are Illyrian! :p :D

NEXT PLEASE

Aye, another cognate. UNLESS she had a Celtic name! Celts were pretty prestigious neighbours, indeed...

[Heretik]

UNLESS Celts took an Illyrian name? :eek:
They lived near each other in those days.

[Blossom]

haha well in Spain they say that every name ended on -ico/igo is german. Like Rodrigo, Alarico, etc..in spanish you can say Teodorico or Teodoro (but they're useless in Spain actually)
The guy was an exchange student from Hungary though he told us he had also romanian family. Pretty tall guy btw xD.

I personally like Theodora but I must say ppl even laugh when they hear the name. Huh.

[Heretik]

Theodoricus from Hungary? Now that's rare. :confused:

[Osweo]

UNLESS Celts took an Illyrian name? :eek:
They lived near each other in those days.

Most likely it's just common IE cognates. The fact that Germanic has similar tends to confirm this. (and PRE-Grimm's Law sound-shift pre-proto-Germanic would have been even CLOSER.) But I'm surprised the Illyrian is SO close to Celtic as that. :shrug:

[Heretik]

Most likely it's just common IE cognates. The fact that Germanic has similar tends to confirm this. (and PRE-Grimm's Law sound-shift pre-proto-Germanic would have been even CLOSER.) But I'm surprised the Illyrian is SO close to Celtic as that. :shrug:

If I could only find if Teuta actually means something or if it's / was just a regular name. ;)

[Blossom]

Theodoricus from Hungary? Now that's rare. :confused:

rare or not..his name was Theodoricus and we called him Rick...

[Heretik]

Just saying for god's sake...

[Guapo]

and riks is just the Latin rector

[Osweo]

If I could only find if Teuta actually means something or if it's / was just a regular name. ;)

ALL names mean summat!

(Unless you're some illiterate from the modern day who assembles some random collection of phonemes that 'sound nice' to you thick-as-pigshit ignorant scumbag ear, that it. :()

Teuta looks blatantly like 'folk'. Odd name... Maybe it was more a title for a Queen of the Folk, or is a shortened form of a longer (typically IE two-part) name?

In England there were men called Totta, which is probably a diminutive of Torhthere or the like... :chin:

Or maybe Teuta IS a two-part thing. Te - Uta..!?! We'll never know.

[Heretik]

I'll do some googling one of these days and inform you if I find something.
Maybe one of the resident Albanians could help us, I don't see them having anything better to do on TA. :D

[Guapo]

Or maybe Teuta IS a two-part thing. Te - Uta..!?! We'll never know.

Teuta? more like Tefta which basically means "queen"

[Heretik]

Are you absolutely sure?

[Guapo]

Do I have a choice?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:nofbqc7FiNACOM:http://img.qj.net/uploads/articles_module/109843/PSP_Millionaire_Lifeline_qjpreviewth.jpg?742177&t=1