Hamitic Haplogroups?

[Bosniensis]

Which haplogroups are considered Hamitic? i.e. people descended From Ham son of Noah.

[kingjohn]

if you believe in the bible
like rethel :)
than they are haplogroup E ;)

[Cristiano viejo]

If you believe in the Torah
like Jews :)
then they are haplogroup E

[Bosniensis]

Islam also mentions Hamitic people just like Torah and Bible

Are Greeks Hamitic people since they are E as well?

[Voskos]

Don't forget that Balkanites are top matching populations for these ancient Egyptians!

https://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/mummy-dna-01.jpg

[Rethel]

Which haplogroups are considered Hamitic? i.e. people descended From Ham son of Noah.

Certainly A, B, C, D, E, very probable G, H.
There is also a probability with some good
hits for K-Q, but I would not argue about it,
at least some of them could be.

Interesting is, that Japhethites can only be
described by one paternal and lingustic group.
Semites from one to probably few. But as the
Hamites were main pyrmidologists and the chief
rebels of that time, they probably participated
mostly in confusion of languages and scattering.

Interetsing is also the fact, that the far eastern
version of babelian story says clearly, that only
Shemites and Hamites participated in building and
rebellion. It would fits to these few semitic possible
languages and many Hamitic, but only one japhetic.
More than that blessing and prophecies consering
Japheth do apply actually exclusivly to IEs - so I
guess he was the forefather of only one paleotribe.

[Rethel]

Are Greeks Hamitic people since they are E as well?

Greeks as a tribe not - they are japhethic.
But pre-greekian population was Hamitic - descendants of Kasluch.
And these people who are E in Greece, are Hamites.
But not Greeks per se.

[spik]

R1a.

[Norka]

What bullshit. Sounds like autist pollack science mixed with bible idiocity.

[Voskos]

Greeks as a tribe not - they are japhethic.
But pre-greekian population was Hamitic - descendants of Kasluch.
Ad these people who are E in greece, are Hamites.
But not Greeks per se.

lmao. so some people here descend from Kasluch?

[Rethel]

lmao. so some people here descend from Kasluch?

It seems that it should be him, or maybe his brother Kaftor,
but I bet the first one, as he was ancestor of Philistines,
and these are connected with Pelasgians.

[Voskos]

It seems that it should be him, or maybe his brother Kaftor,
but I bet the first one, as he was ancestor of Philistines,
and these are connected with Pelasgians.

E-V13 predates Pelasgians though. Pelasgians must have been some Eastern branch of R1b or J2.

[Rethel]

E-V13 predates Pelasgians though. Pelasgians must have been some Eastern branch of R1b or J2.

Long ago I thought, that they could be sort of semitoids, but
then I didn't know, about pelasgian-philisinic connections. So,
becasue of that, they originally had to be E. It of course does
not mean, that they later did not absorbed something else as
a late population called today Pelasgians, but I hope it is clear
and we do not have to speak it. More than that, the Philistines
came directly from Kaftor, what meant Crete, so there is no
other E in Greece, so it has to be this.

[Mingle]

Greeks as a tribe not - they are japhethic.
But pre-greekian population was Hamitic - descendants of Kasluch.
And these people who are E in Greece, are Hamites.
But not Greeks per se.

Are you connecting Elb1b1 to Kasluch?

According to this source, E1b1b1 could also come from Pathrus and Caphtor (also children of Ham): http://creationwiki.org/Human_Y-chromosome_DNA_Haplogroups

[Bosniensis]

Long ago I thought, that they could be sort of semitoids, but
then I didn't know, about pelasgian-philisinic connections. So,
becasue of that, they originally had to be E. It of course does
not mean, that they later did not absorbed something else as
a late population called today Pelasgians, but I hope it is clear
and we do not have to speak it. More than that, the Philistines
came directly from Kaftor, what meant Crete, so there is no
other E in Greece, so it has to be this.

Islamic tradition narrates that "Japheth is father of Romans"

So if Greeks are related to Hamitic people, then obviously they are not Romans.

Does that makes sense?

[kingjohn]

Greeks as a tribe not - they are japhethic.
But pre-greekian population was Hamitic - descendants of Kasluch.
And these people who are E in Greece, are Hamites.
But not Greeks per se.

https://www.biography.com/.image/t_share/MTE1ODA0OTcxNzc2Mzc4Mzgx/pete-sampras-9470460-402.jpg :clap2:

[Rethel]

Are you connecting Elb1b1 to Kasluch?

V13 should be him.


According to this source, E1b1b1 could also come from Pathrus and Caphtor (also children of Ham): http://creationwiki.org/Human_Y-chromosome_DNA_Haplogroups

Yes, but there is doubt if they were certain people, as description sys about the tribes.
Of course could be both (then every should be one sub-hg) but not necesserly, as
Partusim means probably Patrosians and Kaftorim - Creteans.

So, the most verbal translation would be: from the Micraim (or even from Egypts)
come inhabitants of Pathros and Createans. Did they have only one progenotor
it is a matter of debate, as text does not say it clearly.

[Rethel]

Islamic tradition narrates that "Japheth is father of Romans"

So if Greeks are related to Hamitic people, then obviously they are not Romans.

Does that makes sense?

Greeks are Indoeuropeans, and they are related to Romans, as both are R1.

People in Greece who are E1, they are PRE-greek what means BEFORE Greek.
They did not changed greekian ancestry, they were separate clearly hamitic
tribe, which was later assimilated by Greeks, who were descendants of Japheth,
and his son Javan...

[Bosniensis]

Greeks are Indoeuropeans, and they are related to Romans, as both are R1.

People in Greece who are E1, they are PRE-greek what means BEFORE Greek.
They did not changed greekian ancestry, they were separate clearly hamitic
tribe, which was later assimilated by Greeks, who were descendants of Japheth,
and his son Javan...

yeah their autosomal is now 100% Greek/Roman.

However, I haven't seen a lot of R1 Greeks, they are mostly E, J, some I

[Rethel]

However, I haven't seen a lot of R1 Greeks

27% is R1.
Truely it doesn;t matter how many, as the origin is important, not 4000 years later.
In the past it could be 90% in the future it can be 2%, but the fact will remain the same.

[Bosniensis]

27% is R1.
Truely it doesn;t matter how many, as the origin is imporatnt, not 4000 years later.
In the past it could be 90% in the future it can be 2%, but the fact will remain the same.

I don't want to open a new thread so I will ask you question here:

In the Book Kingdom of Slavs written by Mauro Orbini it is said that one of groups that conquered Balkan
was lead by Lech and Chech (leaders apparently) who later did not want to settle among the Illyrians (except some other groups)
so they went north with their people where by the way they met a lot of other Slavs who previously settled in Northern Regions.

Those Slavs pointed them to Bohemia and some Eastern provinces and they basically formed what is today known as Czech Republic and Poland.

Is there any truth in that?

[kingjohn]

given that e-L618 the ancestor of e-v13 was found in dalmatia in 5000 bc or even older
we can't be sure about anything this haplogroup is damn old in europe :)
it could be present among the invading indo-european
but i agree that it is mostly pre-indo european

[Rethel]

Is there any truth in that?

Generally nope, as such chronicles are often contradicting to
each other and are from too late periods. The more young from
our perspective, the more details have. :)

But I wouldn;t be surrprized if some grain of truth in it would be,
especially in the oldest ones. But they have of couirse traditional
and legendar role too play and in these circumstances it is "true".

And about the grain of truth, then, Lech was from Panonnia.
Lastly litwin was showing some autosomal results suggesting,
that people migrated from Panonnia. When I don;t remember.
It could be in Slavic migration times, could be earlier, but as
you see, it coresponds well - coincidently or not? Who knows...

Interesting is also, that Lech was consider to be a descendant of
Javan - the same, who forefathered Greeks :-) It is probably not
the case, but who knows. Javan means also West, western IE hg
is R1b, and coincidently Piast dynasty was... R1b :p

[Rethel]

it could be present among the invading indo-european

It is very risky and backbreaking.
V13 would have to firstly went in some unknown way into Russia or Ukraine,
became IEnized, and then invaded Greece... not possible. But even if, then
it would be still hamitic, and still their own kind, as the time of denationalization
doesn;t change the fact, that V13 was earlier it's own tribe with own identity.
It would be only a different year of loosing own language, nothing more.

This year or that year - what's a difference.

And if you meant invading from the Balkans/Illyria - then the same.
IEs probably gathered everything underway from Russia to Greece.

[kingjohn]

http://www.gjenetika.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ancientDNAFinal-1-905x509.jpg