Northern Greek AncestryDNA... 30% Slavic.

[Sikeliot]

https://i.imgur.com/lCPzfTN.png


This is how most of the northerners I have seen come out, whereas the islanders have more Sicilian-like results.

[Kouros]

'Europe East' category in AncestryDNA is purely Slavic?

[Sikeliot]

'Europe East' category in AncestryDNA is purely Slavic?

It peaks in Lithuanians, Poles, and Russians. My mother scores 58% of it.

[Bosniensis]

Do you have gedmatch kit, or could you post Eurogenes K15 of that person?

[Sikeliot]

Do you have gedmatch kit, or could you post Eurogenes K15 of that person?

I have asked them to provide it.

[Sikeliot]

Do you have gedmatch kit, or could you post Eurogenes K15 of that person?



Eurogenes K13
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 21.38
2 Atlantic 15.08
3 West_Asian 14.51
4 Baltic 13.91
5 West_Med 12.83
6 North_Sea 10.44
7 Eastern_Euro 7.52
8 Red_Sea 3.72
9 Southeast_Asian 0.62

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek 5.33
2 Bulgarian 6.24
3 Greek_Thessaly 7.16
4 Romanian 8.76
5 Central_Greek 9.57
6 Italian_Abruzzo 9.62
7 Ashkenazi 10.19
8 East_Sicilian 10.81
9 Tuscan 11.98
10 West_Sicilian 11.98
11 Serbian 12.85
12 South_Italian 12.99
13 North_Italian 16.07
14 Italian_Jewish 17.4
15 Moldavian 17.49
16 Sephardic_Jewish 17.5
17 Algerian_Jewish 18.61
18 Croatian 19.29
19 Austrian 19.33
20 Hungarian 20.09

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.3% Bulgarian + 19.7% Lebanese_Muslim @ 1.77
2 83.7% Bulgarian + 16.3% Kurdish_Jewish @ 1.94
3 83.5% Bulgarian + 16.5% Lebanese_Christian @ 1.96
4 79.2% Bulgarian + 20.8% Cyprian @ 2.01
5 83.5% Bulgarian + 16.5% Iranian_Jewish @ 2.07
6 83.7% Bulgarian + 16.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.08
7 82.7% Bulgarian + 17.3% Assyrian @ 2.16
8 83.3% Bulgarian + 16.7% Samaritan @ 2.34
9 81.3% Bulgarian + 18.7% Syrian @ 2.37
10 68.3% South_Italian + 31.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.51
11 83.4% Bulgarian + 16.6% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.57
12 72.8% Romanian + 27.2% Cyprian @ 2.63
13 74.9% Central_Greek + 25.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.69
14 75.1% Central_Greek + 24.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.69
15 83.9% Bulgarian + 16.1% Palestinian @ 2.73
16 75.7% Bulgarian + 24.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.84
17 69% South_Italian + 31% Southwest_Russian @ 2.85
18 76.7% Central_Greek + 23.3% Belorussian @ 2.85
19 75.5% Central_Greek + 24.5% Southwest_Russian @ 2.85
20 79.2% Bulgarian + 20.8% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.88

Dodecad K12b

Caucasus 31.13
2 North_European 28.37
3 Atlantic_Med 24.33
4 Southwest_Asian 9.11
5 Gedrosia 4.3
6 Northwest_African 1.4
7 East_Asian 0.63
8 South_Asian 0.46
9 Southeast_Asian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 6.66
2 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 7.47
3 Romanians (Behar) 8.28
4 Greek (Dodecad) 10.08
5 O_Italian (Dodecad) 11.02
6 C_Italian (Dodecad) 14.31
7 Tuscan (HGDP) 15.62
8 TSI30 (Metspalu) 16.1
9 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 16.27
10 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 16.6
11 Sicilian (Dodecad) 17.13
12 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 17.14
13 N_Italian (Dodecad) 18.25
14 North_Italian (HGDP) 20.88
15 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 22.93
16 Hungarians (Behar) 23.55
17 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 24.84
18 Turkish (Dodecad) 26.01
19 Turks (Behar) 28.13
20 German (Dodecad) 28.5

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.7% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 22.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 1.13
2 54.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 45.1% Cypriots (Behar) @ 1.16
3 79.2% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 20.8% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 1.31
4 73.7% Romanians (Behar) + 26.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 1.43
5 72.6% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 27.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.71
6 70.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 29.6% Russian_B (Behar) @ 1.76
7 67.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 32.7% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.85
8 72.7% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 27.3% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.87
9 72.1% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 27.9% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 1.88
10 67.2% Romanians (Behar) + 32.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 2.01
11 71.8% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 28.2% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 2.02
12 66.8% Romanians (Behar) + 33.2% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 2.05
13 75.6% Romanians (Behar) + 24.4% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 2.15
14 70.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 29.3% Belorussian (Behar) @ 2.19
15 73.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26.5% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 2.21
16 70.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 29.3% Russian (Dodecad) @ 2.34
17 69.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 30.9% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 2.37
18 78.3% Romanians (Behar) + 21.7% Cypriots (Behar) @ 2.4
19 75% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 25% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 2.4
20 68.2% Romanians (Behar) + 31.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.42

[Mingle]

It peaks in Lithuanians, Poles, and Russians. My mother scores 58% of it.

I guess that it's Northeast European. Your mother is fully Polish?

[Sikeliot]

I guess that it's Northeast European. Your mother is fully Polish?

Half.

Anyway I posted the GEDmatch for this person above. They are very close to Bulgarians but still slightly south of them, and considerably more removed from Sicilians/Aegean islanders/Jews.

[Voskos]

Interesting result, slavic is on the high end. which region? Thrace/Macedonia?

[Bosniensis]

Eurogenes K13
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 21.38
2 Atlantic 15.08
3 West_Asian 14.51
4 Baltic 13.91
5 West_Med 12.83
6 North_Sea 10.44
7 Eastern_Euro 7.52
8 Red_Sea 3.72
9 Southeast_Asian 0.62

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek 5.33
2 Bulgarian 6.24
3 Greek_Thessaly 7.16
4 Romanian 8.76
...



I beat him with my West Med xD

You are right, northern Greece have a lot of Slavic admixture.

1 Baltic 29.57
2 North_Atlantic 22.59
3 West_Med 16.81
4 East_Med 16.48
5 West_Asian 10.49
6 Red_Sea 1.93
7 East_Asian 0.58
8 Amerindian 0.47
9 Sub-Saharan 0.41
10 South_Asian 0.41
11 Oceanian 0.14
12 Siberian 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 4.77
2 Romanian 5.08
3 Bulgarian 6.07

1 82.3% Bulgarian + 17.7% Lithuanian @ 1.12
2 78.8% Bulgarian + 21.2% Russian_Smolensk @ 1.16
3 79.2% Bulgarian + 20.8% Estonian_Polish @ 1.2

[Dick]

I beat him with my West Med xD

You are right, northern Greece have a lot of Slavic admixture.


You're such a troll. Northern greeks have a lot of Slavic admixture but south Slavs don't according to you. I'd tell you to go fuck yourself but I wish you a Happy new year instead.

[Bosniensis]

You're such a troll. Northern greeks have a lot of Slavic admixture but south Slavs don't according to you. I'd tell you to go fuck yourself but I wish you a Happy new year instead.

I've never said such thing, South Slavs have a lot of Slavic admixture, I was saying that Northern Greeks have a lot of Slavic admixture for an average Greek :P

Happy new catholic year to you too :P

Popeye

[Lavrentis]

He has undoubtedly Slavic ancestry imo. There are still Slavic minorities in northern Greece. His high Caucasus might indicate some Pontian ancestry. Where in northern Greece is he from?


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[Lavrentis]

You are right, northern Greece have a lot of Slavic admixture.

That's just one DNA result. You make your conclusion based on this?

There is Slavic admixture in northern Greece, because a lot of Slavs were assimilated there. But it's not as big as some people here think.


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[Bosniensis]

That's just one DNA result. You make your conclusion based on this?

There is Slavic admixture in northern Greece, because a lot of Slavs were assimilated there. But it's not as big as some people here think.


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This guy is not assimilated Slav but Greek with Slavic components.

If he was assimilated Slav then his Eastern Europe would be larger than Southern Europe.

I've seen more results like this one it's highly possible that entire Greek Thrace, Greek Macedonia looks like that.

[Dick]

I've never said such thing, South Slavs have a lot of Slavic admixture, I was saying that Northern Greeks have a lot of Slavic admixture for an average Greek :P

Happy new catholic year to you too :P

Popeye

Brat je mio koje vjere bio. Sve najbolje u 2018 godini picko! ;) Izadji u grad jarane, sta se petljas odje ko izgubljeno jagnje i prestani da seres ko morski sisavac.

[Dibran]

'Europe East' category in AncestryDNA is purely Slavic?

For the most part. Mine is stock 15 percent. My moms says 20 percent Northeast Italy/Croatia/Bosnia.

[Lavrentis]

This guy is not assimilated Slav but Greek with Slavic components.

If he was assimilated Slav then his Eastern Europe would be larger than Southern Europe.

I've seen more results like this one it's highly possible that entire Greek Thrace, Greek Macedonia looks like that.

Get real, his 30% Slavic is already too high, and we're talking about Greece. How much Slavic do you think the average Bulgarian is?


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[kingjohn]

there is only one problem
the results are mistakenly showing eurogenes k13 as headline
but the components are eurogenes k15 one ....
siceliot can we see his real eurogenes k13 results? ......

[Voskos]

For the most part. Mine is stock 15 percent. My moms says 20 percent Northeast Italy/Croatia/Bosnia.

why is northeast italy lumped in eastern europe?

[Kouros]

why is northeast italy lumped in eastern europe?

I think North-East Italy, Croatia, Bosnia have some common admixture that lumps them together. I don't think it's an 'Eastern Europe' category. I don't know much about the categories though so I would wait for Dibran to elaborate.


For the most part. Mine is stock 15 percent. My moms says 20 percent Northeast Italy/Croatia/Bosnia.

Thanks man

[Sikeliot]

Get real, his 30% Slavic is already too high, and we're talking about Greece. How much Slavic do you think the average Bulgarian is?


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Bulgarians would score even more. Anyway, all of the northern Greek results I have seen are exactly like this one.. again, northern Greece is not Crete, and it is not Sicily.

[Sikeliot]

I've seen more results like this one it's highly possible that entire Greek Thrace, Greek Macedonia looks like that.

Thessaly, Thrace, Epirus and Macedonia, yes.

[Lavrentis]

Bulgarians would score even more. Anyway, all of the northern Greek results I have seen are exactly like this one.. again, northern Greece is not Crete, and it is not Sicily.

You mean that all the northern Greek results you have seen score 30% Eastern Europe?


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[Sikeliot]

You mean that all the northern Greek results you have seen score 30% Eastern Europe?


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20%+, yes. By contrast, I have yet to see a Sicilian score even 1%, and of the one Greek islander I saw, they scored none either but they did score British and Irish.

[Voskos]

Thessaly, Thrace, Epirus and Macedonia, yes.

where is the guy in the op from?

[Sikeliot]

where is the guy in the op from?

The person whose result it was did not reply to me yet.

[Kouros]

20%+, yes. By contrast, I have yet to see a Sicilian score even 1%, and of the one Greek islander I saw, they scored none either but they did score British and Irish.

You can tell just by looking at islanders that they are the most native. Their features are very different from any other Balkan country (including Greek mainland). Which is why it was a surprise to me when I heard that they had some MENA admixture. The questionable looking ones were probably Turks settled there during Ottoman era IMO, though they are an incredibly small minority. If the MENA admixture is consistent or common among islanders than I would assume it most likely entered the gene pool a long time ago, before the Ottomans and possibly even the Byzantines (maybe Phoenician?).

[Voskos]

The person whose result it was did not reply to me yet.

anyway i score more caucasus than him and more middle east.

[Sikeliot]

You can tell just by looking at islanders that they are the most native. Their features are very different from any other Balkan country (including Greek mainland). Which is why it was a surprise to me when I heard that they had some MENA admixture. The questionable looking ones were probably Turks settled there during Ottoman era IMO, though they are an incredibly small minority. If the MENA admixture is consistent or common among islanders than I would assume it most likely entered the gene pool a long time ago, before the Ottomans and possibly even the Byzantines (maybe Phoenician?).

The islanders do have Middle Eastern admixture. It likely arrived there at the same time as it arrived in Sicily. Aegean islanders might not have the Slavic input, but they also have the additional MENA which is why they are genetically similar to Sicilians (who also share their genetic base). My cousin from Palermo scores identically on most GEDmatch calculators to mongrel, who is from southern Crete... both areas have Middle Eastern admixture.

[Lavrentis]

You can tell just by looking at islanders that they are the most native. Their features are very different from any other Balkan country (including Greek mainland). Which is why it was a surprise to me when I heard that they had some MENA admixture. The questionable looking ones were probably Turks settled there during Ottoman era IMO, though they are an incredibly small minority. If the MENA admixture is consistent or common among islanders than I would assume it most likely entered the gene pool a long time ago, before the Ottomans and possibly even the Byzantines (maybe Phoenician?).

There were no Turks left at the Greek islands, except for a minority in Rhodes. There were Anatolian Greeks who settled there though


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[Voskos]

There were no Turks left at the Greek islands, except for a minority in Rhodes. There were Anatolian Greeks who settled there though


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yeah, i heard in the big cities of western crete anatolian Greeks used to be 20-25%

[Lavrentis]

yeah, i heard in the big cities of western crete anatolian Greeks used to be 20-25%

There are Anatolian Greeks in Heraklion too


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[Voskos]

There are Anatolian Greeks in Heraklion too


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indeed. I think Heraklion received the most in number but in terms of percentage I don't know how it compares to Khania and rethymno.

[Dibran]

I think North-East Italy, Croatia, Bosnia have some common admixture that lumps them together. I don't think it's an 'Eastern Europe' category. I don't know much about the categories though so I would wait for Dibran to elaborate.



Thanks man

This is the description given for the general Europe East Cluster cluster:


Europe East
Primarily located in: Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Austria, Russia, Hungary, Slovenia, Romania, Serbia, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Lithuania, Latvia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia

Also found in: Germany, Montenegro, Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia, Estonia, Bulgaria

The Europe East region stretches from the Baltic Sea in the north to the borders of Greece in the south. Throughout history, the region has stood at the crossroads—and often in the crosshairs—of Europe and Central Asia. Despite constant invasions and occupations over the centuries, the hardy inhabitants have, nevertheless, managed to persevere.

Early population origins
Prior to the Roman Empire's conquests and expansion between 35 B.C. and 400 A.D., the Eastern European region was largely populated by Slavic and Baltic tribes in the north, and Celtic, Thracian and Illyrian tribes in the south. The Roman Empire conquered the Thracians in 46 A.D., but the Balts in the north managed to avoid falling under Rome's sphere of dominance.

The fate of the Illyrians is unclear, but some linguistic scholars believe the Albanian language may be a form of Illyrian or Thracian. Whether that means the Albanians are descended from the ancient Illyrians is a matter of debate. The fact remains that their origins cannot be conclusively determined and their language cannot be definitively classified, except to say that it is Indo-European and predates the Slavic migrations of the medieval period.

Post Roman Empire
Roman control of the East European region was relatively weak, partly because the population was largely rural. After the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, the southern area of the region, namely Bulgaria and Romania, remained part of the Byzantine Empire, while most of the remainder was overrun by invasions of Huns, Alans and other nomadic tribes from the Pontic steppe. Slavic tribes, possibly displaced by the invasions, spread south toward the Balkans.

The Avars and Bulgars, most likely Turkic tribes from Central Asia, arrived in the 7th century. These tribes established kingdoms called Khaganates in the south Balkans, pushing the Byzantine border south, almost to the Aegean Sea. Although subjugated by outsiders, the native Slavic tribes' culture persisted. The invaders were assimilated and “Slavicized,” creating new Slavic national identities.


In the area that now includes Belarus, Ukraine and western Russia, a confederation of Slavic tribes known as the Rus' established a kingdom with its capital in Kiev. Legend has it—though some scholars disagree—that the Rus' were ruled by a small group of Scandinavian warriors called the Varangians. Scandinavian or not, the Rus' were entirely Slavicized by the 10th century. Russia and Belarus are named after this kingdom, and both claim them as cultural ancestors.


The Magyar, a Uralic tribe from the northern part of the Asian steppe, settled in the Carpathian Basin around 900 A.D. and established the Kingdom of Hungary. However, unlike the Avars and Bulgars, the Hungarians resisted Slavic influence and maintained their language, which is closely related to Finnish and Estonian.


Prince Árpád crossing the Carpathians. A detail from The Arrival of the Hungarians by Árpád Feszty's, now displayed at the Ópusztaszer National Memorial Site in Hungary.
Mongol attacks
Led by two grandsons of Ghengis Khan, the Mongol raids and invasions of Eastern Europe were violent and fearsome. Medieval European warfare tactics were ill-suited to fight the mounted archers of the invading horde. The kingdoms of Rus' fell to the Mongols, who swept quickly across the steppe and into the Carpathian Mountains. Hungary was the main target of the Mongol campaign in Eastern Europe and was poorly prepared to defend itself after centuries of relative peace. Nearly half of the population was killed. In the terror and panic, refugees fled the Mongol armies in numbers never before seen. The Mongol Empire expanded to include Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Hungary and Bulgaria.


Mongol Cavalrymen Engage the Enemy, illustration from early 14th-century manuscript. Bibiotheque nationale de France, Paris.

Mongol invasion, about 1240 A.D.
Baltic crusades
Although the Baltic region wasn't attacked by the Mongols, it was invaded by Germanic crusaders, who introduced Christianity to the local tribes.



The rise of the Ottoman Empire
In the late 1300s, Ottoman Turks vanquished the remains of the Byzantine Empire. They expanded into Eastern Europe, eventually conquering Bulgaria and the Serbian Empire of the south Balkans. The Turks met fierce resistance in Wallachia and Hungary, however. Vlad III (“the Impaler”), the Wallachian prince of “Dracula” fame, was one of the Ottomans' greatest foes at the time and played an important part in preserving the culture of Romania. The Magyars of Hungary, meanwhile, were better prepared to resist the Ottomans, having built heavy fortifications against a feared second Mongol invasion.

By around 1500 or so, the Europe East region had evolved into three stable, primary groups. In the south, the Balkan region would remain under Ottoman rule for the next 300 years. Hungary aligned with Austria, creating the formidable Austro-Hungarian Empire, which endured until World War I. The Austro-Hungarian Empire became the largest state in Europe (excluding the Russian Empire). In the Baltic region, Lithuania and Poland joined together, forming a commonwealth government.


Europe East today
Today the Europe East DNA profile is detected most commonly in Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Lithuania and Latvia, but is also detected in smaller portions in many neighboring regions. The regional languages are predominantly Slavic, with the exceptions of Estonian and Hungarian (both Uralic languages), Romanian (a holdover from the days of the Western Roman Empire) and Albanian.

Did You Know?
In the decades following World War II, the majority of the Eastern European region was known as the Eastern Bloc, which was politically aligned with the former Soviet Union (USSR). Belarus, Ukraine and the Baltic states were absorbed into the USSR, while Poland, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and East Germany were members of the Warsaw Pact, a military defense alliance among eight communist states.

[Krampus]

Slavs settles in Greece during the Middle Ages.

[Lavrentis]

Slavs settles in Greece during the Middle Ages.

But they were eventually kicked out by the Byzantines. This man scoring 30% Eastern Euro doesn't make him a Slavic invader, he could simply have Bulgarian ancestry or something


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[Krampus]

But they were eventually kicked out by the Byzantines. This man scoring 30% Eastern Euro doesn't make him a Slavic invader, he could simply have Bulgarian ancestry or something


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whats the source they were expelled? It doesn’t seem likely that they a peasant people’s were expelled when they worked for a Byzantine economy, why would the Byzantines expel them?

[Lavrentis]

whats the source they were expelled? It doesn’t seem likely that they a peasant people’s were expelled when they worked for a Byzantine economy, why would the Byzantines expel them?

"During the early 7th century, Constans II made the first mass-expulsions of Slavs from the Greek peninsula to the Balkans and central Asia Minor. Justinian II defeated and destroyed most of the Sclaviniae, and moved as many as 110,000–200,000 Slavs from the Greek peninsula to Bithynia, while he enlisted some 30,000 Slavs in his army.[7]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Greece

Those who worked for the Byzantine economy were probably later settlers and not the invaders.


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[Sikeliot]

But they were eventually kicked out by the Byzantines. This man scoring 30% Eastern Euro doesn't make him a Slavic invader, he could simply have Bulgarian ancestry or something
k

Any time history says a people were entirely kicked out, it is usually an exaggeration. Very clearly, Slavic culture and language did not survive in Greece, but the genetic impact did.

[Lavrentis]

Any time history says a people were entirely kicked out, it is usually an exaggeration. Very clearly, Slavic culture and language did not survive in Greece, but the genetic impact did.

Slavic genetic impact is present in northern Greece, but this Slavic impact is probably not from the Slavic invaders from the Middle Ages, but from later settlers to the area.


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[Sikeliot]

Slavic genetic impact is present in northern Greece, but this Slavic impact is probably not from the Slavic invaders front the Middle Ages, but from later settlers to the area.



From what I see, the following regions are all shifted northeast: Epirus, Thessaly, Macedonia, Thrace, Western Greece. On the other hand, the Athens area, the rest of central Greece, and most of the Peloponnese are shifted west. The former regions are likely where the Slavic is.

[kleenex]

Here is his Gedmatch results that I requested: I believe he (or whoever) is represented may have Bulgarian ancestry.


Eurogenes K13
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 21.38
2 Atlantic 15.08
3 West_Asian 14.51
4 Baltic 13.91
5 West_Med 12.83
6 North_Sea 10.44
7 Eastern_Euro 7.52
8 Red_Sea 3.72
9 Southeast_Asian 0.62

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek 5.33
2 Bulgarian 6.24
3 Greek_Thessaly 7.16
4 Romanian 8.76
5 Central_Greek 9.57
6 Italian_Abruzzo 9.62
7 Ashkenazi 10.19
8 East_Sicilian 10.81
9 Tuscan 11.98
10 West_Sicilian 11.98
11 Serbian 12.85
12 South_Italian 12.99
13 North_Italian 16.07
14 Italian_Jewish 17.4
15 Moldavian 17.49
16 Sephardic_Jewish 17.5
17 Algerian_Jewish 18.61
18 Croatian 19.29
19 Austrian 19.33
20 Hungarian 20.09

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.3% Bulgarian + 19.7% Lebanese_Muslim @ 1.77
2 83.7% Bulgarian + 16.3% Kurdish_Jewish @ 1.94
3 83.5% Bulgarian + 16.5% Lebanese_Christian @ 1.96
4 79.2% Bulgarian + 20.8% Cyprian @ 2.01
5 83.5% Bulgarian + 16.5% Iranian_Jewish @ 2.07
6 83.7% Bulgarian + 16.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.08
7 82.7% Bulgarian + 17.3% Assyrian @ 2.16
8 83.3% Bulgarian + 16.7% Samaritan @ 2.34
9 81.3% Bulgarian + 18.7% Syrian @ 2.37
10 68.3% South_Italian + 31.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.51
11 83.4% Bulgarian + 16.6% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.57
12 72.8% Romanian + 27.2% Cyprian @ 2.63
13 74.9% Central_Greek + 25.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.69
14 75.1% Central_Greek + 24.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.69
15 83.9% Bulgarian + 16.1% Palestinian @ 2.73
16 75.7% Bulgarian + 24.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.84
17 69% South_Italian + 31% Southwest_Russian @ 2.85
18 76.7% Central_Greek + 23.3% Belorussian @ 2.85
19 75.5% Central_Greek + 24.5% Southwest_Russian @ 2.85
20 79.2% Bulgarian + 20.8% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.88

Dodecad K12b

Caucasus 31.13
2 North_European 28.37
3 Atlantic_Med 24.33
4 Southwest_Asian 9.11
5 Gedrosia 4.3
6 Northwest_African 1.4
7 East_Asian 0.63
8 South_Asian 0.46
9 Southeast_Asian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 6.66
2 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 7.47
3 Romanians (Behar) 8.28
4 Greek (Dodecad) 10.08
5 O_Italian (Dodecad) 11.02
6 C_Italian (Dodecad) 14.31
7 Tuscan (HGDP) 15.62
8 TSI30 (Metspalu) 16.1
9 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 16.27
10 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 16.6
11 Sicilian (Dodecad) 17.13
12 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 17.14
13 N_Italian (Dodecad) 18.25
14 North_Italian (HGDP) 20.88
15 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 22.93
16 Hungarians (Behar) 23.55
17 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 24.84
18 Turkish (Dodecad) 26.01
19 Turks (Behar) 28.13
20 German (Dodecad) 28.5

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.7% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 22.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 1.13
2 54.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 45.1% Cypriots (Behar) @ 1.16
3 79.2% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 20.8% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 1.31
4 73.7% Romanians (Behar) + 26.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 1.43
5 72.6% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 27.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.71
6 70.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 29.6% Russian_B (Behar) @ 1.76
7 67.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 32.7% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.85
8 72.7% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 27.3% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.87
9 72.1% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 27.9% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 1.88
10 67.2% Romanians (Behar) + 32.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 2.01
11 71.8% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 28.2% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 2.02
12 66.8% Romanians (Behar) + 33.2% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 2.05
13 75.6% Romanians (Behar) + 24.4% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 2.15
14 70.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 29.3% Belorussian (Behar) @ 2.19
15 73.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26.5% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 2.21
16 70.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 29.3% Russian (Dodecad) @ 2.34
17 69.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 30.9% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 2.37
18 78.3% Romanians (Behar) + 21.7% Cypriots (Behar) @ 2.4
19 75% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 25% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 2.4
20 68.2% Romanians (Behar) + 31.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.42

[Sikeliot]

Here is his Gedmatch results that I requested: I believe he (or whoever) is represented may have Bulgarian ancestry.

all northern Greeks score like this.

[kleenex]

Let me rephrase: slight Bulgarian admixture.

[Carlito's Way]

Northeastern italians as well

[kleenex]

These are Greek expatriate reults from Bulgaria.

[kleenex]

From what I see, the following regions are all shifted northeast: Epirus, Thessaly, Macedonia, Thrace, Western Greece. On the other hand, the Athens area, the rest of central Greece, and most of the Peloponnese are shifted west. The former regions are likely where the Slavic is.

I agree that Macedonia, Thrace is shifted NEt but NW Greece (Epirus) is closer to Western Shifted Peloponese. Thessaly is sonewhere in the middle between Southern GReece (Peloponnese) and Macedona (NE shifted).

[Sikeliot]

I agree that Macedonia, Thrace is shifted NEt but NW Greece (Epirus) is closer to Western Shifted Peloponese. Thessaly is sonewhere in the middle between Southern GReece (Peloponnese) and Macedona (NE shifted).

All the Thessalians I have seen are no different than Macedonians.

[Danaan]

You can tell just by looking at islanders that they are the most native. Their features are very different from any other Balkan country (including Greek mainland). Which is why it was a surprise to me when I heard that they had some MENA admixture. The questionable looking ones were probably Turks settled there during Ottoman era IMO, though they are an incredibly small minority. If the MENA admixture is consistent or common among islanders than I would assume it most likely entered the gene pool a long time ago, before the Ottomans and possibly even the Byzantines (maybe Phoenician?).

The first inhabitants of the islands (before 'Minoans') were Karians (mostly as far as I understand) and Phoenicians according to Thucydides.
And they could have been like the people labeled Anatolia_BA in the PCA. (it is from Southwest Turkey, Isparta)

http://i.imgur.com/H0lwXeD.png

Those from NW Anatolia, though like Trojans etc were more like Myceneans. Kumtepe appears in between Cretans and Myceneans here.

East Europe ancestry though, isn't Slavic, at least not exclusively.

[Sikeliot]

The first inhabitants of the islands (before 'Minoans') were Karians (mostly as far as I understand) and Phoenicians according to Thucydides.
And they could have been like the people labeled Anatolia_BA in the PCA. (it is from Southwest Turkey, Isparta)

This explains why they are close to Sicilians today.

[RN97]

It peaks in Lithuanians, Poles, and Russians. My mother scores 58% of it.

It's likely widespread including SE European slavs.

[Dorian]

yeah, i heard in the big cities of western crete anatolian Greeks used to be 20-25%

interesting do we have any source for this?

[wvwvw]

Sikeliot is probably cherry picking and is posting outliers. The Northern Greeks results I have seen don't get that much Eastern Europe. Not even close.

I am Southern Greek but I am about equidistant to both Southern Greeks and Northern Greeks. But the this "Northern Greeks' results that Sikeliot posted has a distance of @5-6 to the Northern Greek average.

Sikeliot should concentrate on Northern Italians' Eastern European.

[wvwvw]

It's likely widespread including SE European slavs.

He knows that but he is trying to deceitfully prove a point. He also omits to mention the Eastern European in Tuscans and North Italians.

[wvwvw]

The first inhabitants of the islands (before 'Minoans') were Karians (mostly as far as I understand) and Phoenicians according to Thucydides.
And they could have been like the people labeled Anatolia_BA in the PCA. (it is from Southwest Turkey, Isparta)

http://i.imgur.com/H0lwXeD.png

Those from NW Anatolia, though like Trojans etc were more like Myceneans. Kumtepe appears in between Cretans and Myceneans here.

East Europe ancestry though, isn't Slavic, at least not exclusively.

The first inhabitants were the Minoans long before the Carians (whom the Assyrian king exterminated before Greeks moving in) or the Tyrsenoi.

[wvwvw]

'Europe East' category in AncestryDNA is purely Slavic?

For the most part. Mine is stock 15 percent. My moms says 20 percent Northeast Italy/Croatia/Bosnia.

So it is not purely Lithuanian, Polish and Russian after all.


It peaks in Lithuanians, Poles, and Russians. My mother scores 58% of it.

[wvwvw]

Any time history says a people were entirely kicked out, it is usually an exaggeration. Very clearly, Slavic culture and language did not survive in Greece, but the genetic impact did.

It is not the Slavic admixture that bothers me but the misinformation and historical lies that many ignorantly or deliberately spew.

The Slavs only spent about 50 years at most in the Byzantine region before the Greeks expelled them and they never set foot there again. They made raids but did not dominate or had control over Byzantine territory.

The Ottomans settled Slavs, Albanians, and Jews in the 15th century, in Macedonia, and these were ethnically conscious groups who followed their own ethnarchs, and therefore did not intermarry.

Despite what the uneducated ignorant people will tell you, the Greeks did not assimilate foreign peoples and civilizations but rather educated people who were non-Greek. By educating foreigners, Greeks were hoping to mitigate the barbaric nature of their neighbors. The Hellenistic Empire did not convert foreigners into Greeks, but rather brought Greek civilization to them while allowing them to preserve their unique cultures. In Byzantine times, the Greeks did not assimilate the Slavs, but rather educated them so that they will no longer threaten the imperial borders. If the Byzantines did truly assimilate the Slavs, then the Cyrillic alphabet would not have existed, and Bulgaria would no longer be on the map today.

[MercifulServant]

Eastern Euro is not all Slavic they include a lot of Balkan in the component

[MercifulServant]

I got mainly East Euro on this ancestrydna test yet on gedmatch and other sites it shows me that I have predominantly Balkan heritage. The east euro category on ancestry is strange because they count Balkan as east europe

[Lavrentis]

These are Greek expatriate reults from Bulgaria.

I expected something like this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CabOOM]

I feel like these calculators pick up all the northern component and throw it at Eastern Europe, if that is the greater of the two in what ever parameters they set. I doubt the Eastern Europe is this high in Northern Greece. I also highly doubt Epirus is anywhere close to Greek Macedonia or Thrace. Also, Thessaloniki was heavily settled by Albanians, Greeks, and Vlach, with minority of Bulgarians. I doubt that the city and immediate areas have much Eastern Europe. However, if someone proves differently, I won't deny it.

[kleenex]

I feel like these calculators pick up all the northern component and throw it at Eastern Europe, if that is the greater of the two in what ever parameters they set. I doubt the Eastern Europe is this high in Northern Greece. I also highly doubt Epirus is anywhere close to Greek Macedonia or Thrace. Also, Thessaloniki was heavily settled by Albanians, Greeks, and Vlach, with minority of Bulgarians. I doubt that the city and immediate areas have much Eastern Europe. However, if someone proves differently, I won't deny it.
I'm not sure what to make of Greek Macedonian samples they tend to be pretty varied. This tester, I believe, was of Bulgarian mixed heritage. I do think that you're right about Epirus they tend to be West shifted and closer to Southern GReece (Peloponnese) than Macedonians or Thracians.

[Sikeliot]

I'm not sure what to make of Greek Macedonian samples they tend to be pretty varied. This tester, I believe, was of Bulgarian mixed heritage. I do think that you're right about Epirus they tend to be West shifted and closer to Southern GReece (Peloponnese) than Macedonians or Thracians.

Some of the most northern shifted Greeks genetically I have seen are Thessalians. Apparently the area has a lot of Vlach ancestry.

[catgeorge]

20%+, yes. By contrast, I have yet to see a Sicilian score even 1%, and of the one Greek islander I saw, they scored none either but they did score British and Irish.

Bullshit - go through some 23 and me results of North Greeks and they hardly get above 5%. Stop the diarrhea.

[CabOOM]

I'm not sure what to make of Greek Macedonian samples they tend to be pretty varied. This tester, I believe, was of Bulgarian mixed heritage. I do think that you're right about Epirus they tend to be West shifted and closer to Southern GReece (Peloponnese) than Macedonians or Thracians.

I could tell you but you're not going to like it. It's what everyone knows and no-one says. I do not think this sample represents the region as a whole. I do think it is native however.

[Sikeliot]

I could tell you but you're not going to like it. It's what everyone knows and no-one says. I do not think this sample represents the region as a whole. I do think it is native however.

What do you think a representative sample would be, then?

[CabOOM]

What do you think a representative sample would be, then?

Probably in Thessaloniki as well as the surrounding area. It's where the bulk of the population lives anyways. Assuming we negate the Anatolian and Pontian. The Slavs that invaded Macedonia settled outside of Thessaloniki. Greek Macedonia is where you'd expect an increased Slavic influence. However, Thrace should not have such high numbers, unless it is in the cities or coasts. The Rhodope Pomaks are generally assumed to represent an older Thraco/Macedonian population. If there isn't a difference between Pomaks and Greek Macedonia, then these calculators are not very representative. What I would suspect, anyways.

[Sikeliot]

Probably in Thessaloniki as well as the surrounding area. It's where the bulk of the population lives anyways. Assuming we negate the Anatolian and Pontian. The Slavs that invaded Macedonia settled outside of Thessaloniki. Greek Macedonia is where you'd expect an increased Slavic influence. However, Thrace should not have such high numbers, unless it is in the cities or coasts. The Rhodope Pomaks are generally assumed to represent an older Thraco/Macedonian population. If there isn't a difference between Pomaks and Greek Macedonia, then these calculators are not very representative. What I would suspect, anyways.


Why does Thessaly shift north?

While all mainland Greeks shift north of Sicilians not all of them are as far north as Thessaloniki area. I would think Epirotes come out like Albanians most for instance.

[CabOOM]

Why does Thessaly shift north?

While all mainland Greeks shift north of Sicilians not all of them are as far north as Thessaloniki area. I would think Epirotes come out like Albanians most for instance.

Ancient Greece and Balkans in general was a power struggle of different groups. Although these people may have been nearly identical, I assume they carried differing components. I imagine there might have been a natural northern component, which was added onto with another Northeastern component with the invading Slavs into Macedonia and Thrace. There is undoubtedly Slavic influence in Greek Macedonia. I just think this sample is more on the extreme.

And I have obvious bias about Epirus, but I think it would come out exactly like Albania.


Best way to check is to see the difference between the Pomaks. A large part of Macedonians were resettled into that area after the Slavic migration.

[Coolguy1]

Ancient Greece and Balkans in general was a power struggle of different groups. Although these people may have been nearly identical, I assume they carried differing components. I imagine there might have been a natural northern component, which was added onto with another Northeastern component with the invading Slavs into Macedonia and Thrace. There is undoubtedly Slavic influence in Greek Macedonia. I just think this sample is more on the extreme.

And I have obvious bias about Epirus, but I think it would come out exactly like Albania.


Best way to check is to see the difference between the Pomaks. A large part of Macedonians were resettled into that area after the Slavic migration.

There is a linguistic boundary in Greek Macedonia, regions around Grevena, Naoussa, Chalkidike, Serres, and south of Kastoria speak Greek as their mother language. Areas around Florina, Edessa, and Kilkis were bilingual in Greek and Slavic. *****, a member of this forum has ancestry from a Slavic speaking region, his results are halfway between a regular Greek mainlander and a Bulgarian. As far as Epirus, its hard to tell if they have Albanian influence because Greeks and Albanians plot nearly identically, but Greeks from Northern Epirus are certaintly mixed.

[CabOOM]

There is a linguistic boundary in Greek Macedonia, regions around Grevena, Naoussa, Chalkidike, Serres, and south of Kastoria speak Greek as their mother language. Areas around Florina, Edessa, and Kilkis were bilingual in Greek and Slavic. *****, a member of this forum has ancestry from a Slavic speaking region, his results are halfway between a regular Greek mainlander and a Bulgarian. As far as Epirus, its hard to tell if they have Albanian influence because Greeks and Albanians plot nearly identically, but Greeks from Northern Epirus are certaintly mixed.
Of-course there are Slavonic communities in Northern Greece.

Epirus, even after the expulsion of the Muslim Cams still has a large community of self declaring Orthodox Cams. There are no statistics for this obviously, but it is a reality Albanian immigrants and tourists will attest to. I imagine the Greeks from Albania and Epirus would be no different genetically either.

Bunch of Balkan bullshit, man.

[Coolguy1]

Of-course there are Slavonic communities in Northern Greece.

Epirus, even after the expulsion of the Muslim Cams still has a large community of self declaring Orthodox Cams. There are no statistics for this obviously, but it is a reality Albanian immigrants and tourists will attest to. I imagine the Greeks from Albania and Epirus would be no different genetically either.

Bunch of Balkan bullshit, man.

Christian Chams lived in the outskirts of Thesprotia, while Muslims lived in the fertile interior. If you want some statistics from the early 20th century, then read this...

https://www.scribd.com/doc/87513692/Chameria-19-Century-Ottoman-Thesprotia

It breaks down the ethnic composition village by village, most of them were mixed.

[CabOOM]

Christian Chams lived in the outskirts of Thesprotia, while Muslims lived in the fertile interior. If you want some statistics from the early 20th century, then read this...

https://www.scribd.com/doc/87513692/Chameria-19-Century-Ottoman-Thesprotia

It breaks down the ethnic composition village by village, most of them were mixed.
LOLL This either says the village was Greek or it was a Greek-Albo mix. LOL Far from the truth today even. Not just then. I bet you also didn't know Albanians were most numerous in Thessaloniki. Or that the big portion of these Albanians in Thessaloniki were Gheg. Orthodox Gheg in fact. Its why I'm suspecting I'm matching Thessaloniki in calculators.

This thread is not about Epirus or the Cams

[Coolguy1]

LOLL This either says the village was Greek or it was a Greek-Albo mix. LOL Far from the truth today even. Not just then.

This thread is not about Epirus or the Cams

Villages with G/A are Cham Orthodox, I believe, but whatever

[Laberia]

Of-course there are Slavonic communities in Northern Greece.

Epirus, even after the expulsion of the Muslim Cams still has a large community of self declaring Orthodox Cams. There are no statistics for this obviously, but it is a reality Albanian immigrants and tourists will attest to. I imagine the Greeks from Albania and Epirus would be no different genetically either.

Bunch of Balkan bullshit, man.
Not only imigrants and tourists but also scholars:
2002
Miranda Vickers:
The Cham Issue: Albanian National and Property Claims in Greece

Today one can see numerous ruined Cham settlements scattered throughout north western Greece, especially in the region between Paramithia and Filiates. An estimated 40,000 Christian Orthodox Albanians still live in the Threspotia region. Although the majority are of original Cham decent, a significant minority migrated to the region after the collapse of communism in Albania in 1991. The process of assimilation is only gradual and as yet does not threaten their Albanian identity. Although their children go to Greek schools and Greek is spoken everywhere outside the home, inside the houses Albanian is spoken by all family members, and events in Albania are keenly followed. One traveller in the late 1970s noted that: "There are still many Greek Orthodox villagers in Threspotia who speak Albanian among themselves. They are scattered north from Paramithia to the Kalamas River and beyond, and westward to the Margariti Plain. Some of the older people can only speak Albanian, nor is the language dying out. As more and more couples in early married life travel away to Athens or Germany for work, their children remain at home and are brought up by their Albania-speaking grandparents". (33)
Source:
[reprint of: Miranda Vickers: The Cham Issue: Albanian National and Property Claims in Greece. ISBN 1-903584-76-0 (Conflict Studies Research Centre, Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, Surrey 2002), reprint in: Südosteuropa, Zeitschrift für Gegenwartsforschung, Munich, 2002, 51, 4-6, p. 228-249.]

Also the Sandjak of Manastir(Monastir) part of the Vilajet with the same name was mostly inhabited by Albanians.

[Laberia]

Christian Chams lived in the outskirts of Thesprotia, while Muslims lived in the fertile interior. If you want some statistics from the early 20th century, then read this...

https://www.scribd.com/doc/87513692/Chameria-19-Century-Ottoman-Thesprotia

It breaks down the ethnic composition village by village, most of them were mixed.
1889-1898
Sami bey Frashëri
Description of Chameria
(http://www.albanianhistory.net/1889_Frasheri1/index.html)

[Danaan]

I could tell you but you're not going to like it. It's what everyone knows and no-one says. I do not think this sample represents the region as a whole. I do think it is native however.

What is that? I don't know it.

[Karol Klačansky]

https://i.imgur.com/lCPzfTN.png


This is how most of the northerners I have seen come out, whereas the islanders have more Sicilian-like results.Its so high because balkan slavs are a reference for E.E.

Sent from my KIW-L21 using Tapatalk

[CabOOM]

What is that? I don't know it.

That there are Macedonians/Bulgarians in Northern Greece maybe? And that these people were expelled as part of a process of ethnic cleansing, and there's a large community of them that live there in fear of the Greek State, and are in a process of assimilation? The craziness of that country that has no minorities, and yet everyone's some kind of minority.

It's the hypocrisy of the EU and Western World to allow such a state as Greece really.

[Papastratosels26]

In Macedonia and Thracewe have sure slavic ancenstry.Not the pontians or anatolians

[Papastratosels26]

The people in these regions looks like this
https://scontent.fath1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/22180116_10211301606759381_373721997584782258_o.jp g?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=14df766279a6c432bd17afeb17262593&oe=5AF739BC

[Danaan]

That there are Macedonians/Bulgarians in Northern Greece maybe? And that these people were expelled as part of a process of ethnic cleansing, and there's a large community of them that live there in fear of the Greek State, and are in a process of assimilation? The craziness of that country that has no minorities, and yet everyone's some kind of minority.

It's the hypocrisy of the EU and Western World to allow such a state as Greece really.

But if you speak about it and organizations related to people from FYROM speak about it and people in Greece like Dimitras (he is smarter because he is paid to do that) speaks about it, then it isn't true that no one speaks about it. And those people (some of them) have created a party which is legal and has taken part in elections and has gotten ~3500 to 7300 votes.

And no one denies that they exist.

Greece and Bulgaria had made population exchange agreements. No one was expelled after that.

[KingOf]

The people in these regions looks like this
https://scontent.fath1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/22180116_10211301606759381_373721997584782258_o.jp g?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=14df766279a6c432bd17afeb17262593&oe=5AF739BC

in your opinion how typical is this guy for Macedonia?
is he from a bilingual region?

[CabOOM]

But if you speak about it and organizations related to people from FYROM speak about it and people in Greece like Dimitras (he is smarter because he is paid to do that) speaks about it, then it isn't true that no one speaks about it. And those people (some of them) have created a party which is legal and has taken part in elections and has gotten ~3500 to 7300 votes.

And no one denies that they exist.

Greece and Bulgaria had made population exchange agreements. No one was expelled after that.

I assume since these unrecognized minorities(majority of Greece actually) are not being hanged on crosses, they surely are not being discriminated against.

If that makes you sleep at night. Believe what you want.

[Papastratosels26]

[QUOTE=KingOf;4883807]in your opinion how typical is this guy for Macedonia?
is he from a bilingual region?[/Q it is very common phenotype if u go in these regions u will notice that

[Papastratosels26]

in your opinion how typical is this guy for Macedonia?
is he from a bilingual region?

Yes it is.if u go there in these regions u will notice that

[Papastratosels26]

https://i.imgur.com/lCPzfTN.png


This is how most of the northerners I have seen come out, whereas the islanders have more Sicilian-like results.

Maybe the slavic invasions of 6-8 centuries left a signifigant impacta in northern Greece

[Crn Volk]

In Macedonia and Thracewe have sure slavic ancenstry.Not the pontians or anatolians

Yes

[KingOf]

Yes it is.if u go there in these regions u will notice that

OK since you are from there and u say it i believe you
He can pass in all of North Greece but he is not common at all in Thrace and Eastern Macedonia or other regions of Macedonia like Chalkidiki,Imathia,Pieria imo

[Sikeliot]

Maybe the slavic invasions of 6-8 centuries left a signifigant impacta in northern Greece


Yes.

[KingOf]

True about that, I believe this person has ancestry around Kilkis, Florina or Edessa.

He is clearly our kin.

Just want to make clear that if he feels Greek then he is nothing but a Greek
I consider culture only...phenotype says nothing through the centuries...it's culture that stays forever

[Danaan]

I assume since these unrecognized minorities(majority of Greece actually) are not being hanged on crosses, they surely are not being discriminated against.

If that makes you sleep at night. Believe what you want.

You are an Albanian nationalist who pretends to be neutral.

Now, can you translate that inscription from Butrint? It must be in Ancient Albanian.

1 ἀγαθᾶι τύχαι· στραταγο[ῦ]ν[τος Ἀ]πειρωτᾶν
Εὐάλκου Μολοσσοῦ, προστα[τοῦντ]ος
δὲ Χαόνων Λυκίδα Ἑ̣λι̣ννοῦ, [ἱερέο]ς δὲ
Ἀσκλαπιοῦ Σαώτα Πρασαιβοῦ, μη[νὸ]ς Κρανεί-
5 ου, ἀφῆκε Ἀρχὴν Ἀρχ[ι]ά̣δ̣α Σωτηρίδ[α] ἐλευθέ-
ραν vac. καὶ ἀνέθηκε τῶι Ἀσκλαπιῶι τῶ[ι ἐ]μ Βο[υ]-
θρω[τῶι ἱ]ερὰν ἀνέφαπτον, παραμ[ε]νέ̣τω
δὲ Σωτηρὶς παρὰ Ἀρχῆνα <ἇ>ς κα ζο͂ι Ἀρχήν· [μ]άρτυ-
ρες Ἁγήσανδρος Λαμίσκου, Λαμίσκος Ἁγησάν-
10 δρου, Ἀρχέδαμος Ἀπολλοδώρου Βουθρώτιοι.

[CabOOM]

You are an Albanian nationalist who pretends to be neutral.

Now, can you translate that inscription from Butrint? It must be in Ancient Albanian.

1 ἀγαθᾶι τύχαι· στραταγο[ῦ]ν[τος Ἀ]πειρωτᾶν
Εὐάλκου Μολοσσοῦ, προστα[τοῦντ]ος
δὲ Χαόνων Λυκίδα Ἑ̣λι̣ννοῦ, [ἱερέο]ς δὲ
Ἀσκλαπιοῦ Σαώτα Πρασαιβοῦ, μη[νὸ]ς Κρανεί-
5 ου, ἀφῆκε Ἀρχὴν Ἀρχ[ι]ά̣δ̣α Σωτηρίδ[α] ἐλευθέ-
ραν vac. καὶ ἀνέθηκε τῶι Ἀσκλαπιῶι τῶ[ι ἐ]μ Βο[υ]-
θρω[τῶι ἱ]ερὰν ἀνέφαπτον, παραμ[ε]νέ̣τω
δὲ Σωτηρὶς παρὰ Ἀρχῆνα <ἇ>ς κα ζο͂ι Ἀρχήν· [μ]άρτυ-
ρες Ἁγήσανδρος Λαμίσκου, Λαμίσκος Ἁγησάν-
10 δρου, Ἀρχέδαμος Ἀπολλοδώρου Βουθρώτιοι.

What part was nationalistic?

Greece doesn't recognize minorities. Only country other than North Korea that doesn't recognize minorities. What does Greece have to hide to go to such an extreme of not recognizing minorities? Many threads this has been discussed in. No need to revisit the same topics. Wtf you talking about.

I'm American of Albanian descent.

[Laberia]

You are an Albanian nationalist who pretends to be neutral.

Now, can you translate that inscription from Butrint? It must be in Ancient Albanian.

1 ἀγαθᾶι τύχαι· στραταγο[ῦ]ν[τος Ἀ]πειρωτᾶν
Εὐάλκου Μολοσσοῦ, προστα[τοῦντ]ος
δὲ Χαόνων Λυκίδα Ἑ̣λι̣ννοῦ, [ἱερέο]ς δὲ
Ἀσκλαπιοῦ Σαώτα Πρασαιβοῦ, μη[νὸ]ς Κρανεί-
5 ου, ἀφῆκε Ἀρχὴν Ἀρχ[ι]ά̣δ̣α Σωτηρίδ[α] ἐλευθέ-
ραν vac. καὶ ἀνέθηκε τῶι Ἀσκλαπιῶι τῶ[ι ἐ]μ Βο[υ]-
θρω[τῶι ἱ]ερὰν ἀνέφαπτον, παραμ[ε]νέ̣τω
δὲ Σωτηρὶς παρὰ Ἀρχῆνα <ἇ>ς κα ζο͂ι Ἀρχήν· [μ]άρτυ-
ρες Ἁγήσανδρος Λαμίσκου, Λαμίσκος Ἁγησάν-
10 δρου, Ἀρχέδαμος Ἀπολλοδώρου Βουθρώτιοι.
You've jumped back thousands of years to avoid the real discussion, evidently because you was in difficult position. I have strong doubts that you are able to continue this new topic. Personally i have no problems if you are interested about my opinion. But as i said, i have serious doubts.

[Lavrentis]

Yes it is.if u go there in these regions u will notice that

Whose sockpuppet are you?


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[Papastratosels26]

Whose sockpuppet are you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why u are so aggresive man?

[Papastratosels26]

Btw i like this image.Ancient Macedonias crossing the hydaspes River to fight the king poro in india,i suppose

[Queen B]

Again with this retarded threads?

Do we have DNA samples from the islands , from mainland, from Crete and from Northern Greece , from about 2000-2500 years ago? Can we compare that this DNA from 2500 years from Northern Greece was more like ''today's'' islander DNA , so the extra +30% is Slavic? For all we know, this difference between different areas of Greece always exist, and this is another useless thread

[Queen B]

What part was nationalistic?

Greece doesn't recognize minorities. Only country other than North Korea that doesn't recognize minorities. What does Greece have to hide to go to such an extreme of not recognizing minorities? Many threads this has been discussed in. No need to revisit the same topics. Wtf you talking about.

I'm American of Albanian descent.

A minority should consist a) enough population of the % of total population b) citizens c) people that want their group to actually be considered an ethnic minority.
Which group isn't an ethnic minority and ''should'' be?

[Papastratosels26]

Again with this retarded threads?

Do we have DNA samples from the islands , from mainland, from Crete and from Northern Greece , from about 2000-2500 years ago? Can we compare that this DNA from 2500 years from Northern Greece was more like ''today's'' islander DNA , so the extra +30% is Slavic? For all we know, this difference between different areas of Greece always exist, and this is another useless thread

Lets face the truth...in Macedonia we have slavic dna mixed with greek.Ας ειμαστε ρεαλιστες και να μην κρυβομαστε πισω απ το δακτυλο μας

[Queen B]

Lets face the truth...in Macedonia we have slavic dna mixed with greek.Ας ειμαστε ρεαλιστες και να μην κρυβομαστε πισω απ το δακτυλο μας
Can you or can you not somehow provide DNA from ancient populations to compare?

[CabOOM]

A minority should consist a) enough population of the % of total population b) citizens c) people that want their group to actually be considered an ethnic minority.
Which group isn't an ethnic minority and ''should'' be?

Greece has never adhered to any principles of Western society. There hasn't been e census in Greece, to date. There is no way for you to make any statement of who should and should not be considered a minority.

The only thing for certain is that Greece, as a state, has minorities. Secondly, these minorities aren't recognized, nor respected.

My opinion based on history and society of Greece is that the majority of Greece belongs to a minority. It is essentially no more or less than America. It is for this reason that Greece has this aggressive policy of not recognizing any minorities in its State, for as long as there has been a Greek state.

[wvwvw]

Lets face the truth...in Macedonia we have slavic dna mixed with greek.Ας ειμαστε ρεαλιστες και να μην κρυβομαστε πισω απ το δακτυλο μας

Beware of this epirot troll. He's not Greek.

[Voskos]

Greece has never adhered to any principles of Western society. There hasn't been e census in Greece, to date. There is no way for you to make any statement of who should and should not be considered a minority.

The only thing for certain is that Greece, as a state, has minorities. Secondly, these minorities aren't recognized, nor respected.

My opinion based on history and society of Greece is that the majority of Greece belongs to a minority. It is essentially no more or less than America. It is for this reason that Greece has this aggressive policy of not recognizing any minorities in its State, for as long as there has been a Greek state.

That's just your opinion though. Consider Albania and Greece have been hostile to eachother and given the fact you don't even live in the Balkans and have never visited Greece , it is highly likely that your opinion does not correspond to reality in any possible sense.

[Iloko]

Ancestry.com is in dire need of an update to their ancestry composition prog, it's been years since their last update.

[CabOOM]

That's just your opinion though. Consider Albania and Greece have been hostile to eachother and given the fact you don't even live in the Balkans and have never visited Greece , it is highly likely that your opinion does not correspond to reality in any possible sense.

I did say it is my opinion. I didn't say it is fact.

However, I think it is accurate. Still my opinion.

If you want me to elaborate into a discussion we had previously of why Greece doesn't recognize minorities, I will.

There are Arvanita, Vlach, Romei, Pontians, Anatolians, Bulgarians, Cappadocians, Roma, Turks, Pomaks, Cyprians, Cretans, etc.

"Greek" ethnos is made by these people loosing their identity into the "Greek" one. Recognition of minorities is problematic in achieving this.


You can however believe what you want and I can what I want

[Queen B]

Greece has never adhered to any principles of Western society. There hasn't been e census in Greece, to date. There is no way for you to make any statement of who should and should not be considered a minority.

The only thing for certain is that Greece, as a state, has minorities. Secondly, these minorities aren't recognized, nor respected.

My opinion based on history and society of Greece is that the majority of Greece belongs to a minority. It is essentially no more or less than America. It is for this reason that Greece has this aggressive policy of not recognizing any minorities in its State, for as long as there has been a Greek state.

There have been census in the past about it, with language speakers. So, if there were 10.000 of [x] language speakers, it is highly unlikely to have 150.000 of this [x] within 60-70 years.
Let's start with that. To have 3k or 5k of a certain ethnicity is not considered a ''minority''.

Your opinion what is Greece based is irrelevant.

[CabOOM]

There have been census in the past about it, with language speakers. So, if there were 10.000 of [x] language speakers, it is highly unlikely to have 150.000 of this [x] within 60-70 years.
Let's start with that. To have 3k or 5k of a certain ethnicity is not considered a ''minority''.

Your opinion what is Greece based is irrelevant.

You again said nothing.

Instead of saying nothing you can simply ignore.

Or you can dislike my comments like the poster wwvw does. You have options. The great thing about democracy and free choice.

[Dibran]

You again said nothing.

Instead of saying nothing you can simply ignore.

Or you can dislike my comments like the poster wwvw does. You have options. The great thing about democracy and free choice.

wwvw is a sock for Queen delirious

[CabOOM]

wwvw is a sock for Queen delirious

I know she's not a legit poster. There's all these socks in this place. lol

[Queen B]

You again said nothing.

Instead of saying nothing you can simply ignore.

Or you can dislike my comments like the poster wwvw does. You have options. The great thing about democracy and free choice.

The great thing about democracy is that I can answer to however I want, the way I want.
The great thing about democracy is that someone ignorant can consider my comments as ''nothing'', and I still can comment the way I want.

[CabOOM]

The great thing about democracy is that I can answer to however I want, the way I want.
The great thing about democracy is that someone ignorant can consider my comments as ''nothing'', and I still can comment the way I want.

That is a perfectly Hellene observation. :)

[Queen B]

That is a perfectly Hellene observation. :)
*Hellenic

[wvwvw]

Greece has never adhered to any principles of Western society. There hasn't been e census in Greece, to date. There is no way for you to make any statement of who should and should not be considered a minority.

The only thing for certain is that Greece, as a state, has minorities. Secondly, these minorities aren't recognized, nor respected.

My opinion based on history and society of Greece is that the majority of Greece belongs to a minority. It is essentially no more or less than America. It is for this reason that Greece has this aggressive policy of not recognizing any minorities in its State, for as long as there has been a Greek state.

What minorities we don't recognize you idiot? The Albanian immigrants that came in the 90s?

The Arvanites have always identified as Greeks since the down of history. You have been the ones who have been hijacking their identity and appropriating their history. You have been the ones who have denied them their right to self-identication.

The Cypriots and Pontians have always had a Greek conscience since the down of history. They were the first of all Greeks who introduced the Greek language to Greece. The Vlachs who's genetics show they are Greeks have been living side by side with the rest of Greeks for at least 1000 years.

All those people took part in the Greek ethnogenesis. They all identify as Greeks and always have since the down of history.

Greece does not have ethnic minorities, like Romania has Germans/Hungarians, Turkey has Kurds, or Russia has Chechens. It is one of the most homogenous countries in Europe.

The only minority we have is the Muslim minority in Thrace who are free to identify as they wish, just like everyone else in Greece is.

[Lioncourt]

Eurogenes K13
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 21.38
2 Atlantic 15.08
3 West_Asian 14.51
4 Baltic 13.91
5 West_Med 12.83
6 North_Sea 10.44
7 Eastern_Euro 7.52
8 Red_Sea 3.72
9 Southeast_Asian 0.62

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek 5.33
2 Bulgarian 6.24
3 Greek_Thessaly 7.16
4 Romanian 8.76
5 Central_Greek 9.57
6 Italian_Abruzzo 9.62
7 Ashkenazi 10.19
8 East_Sicilian 10.81
9 Tuscan 11.98
10 West_Sicilian 11.98
11 Serbian 12.85
12 South_Italian 12.99
13 North_Italian 16.07
14 Italian_Jewish 17.4
15 Moldavian 17.49
16 Sephardic_Jewish 17.5
17 Algerian_Jewish 18.61
18 Croatian 19.29
19 Austrian 19.33
20 Hungarian 20.09

Are you sure this person is fully ethnic Greek and not a Slav from Greece? His results are almost the same as Bulgarians and Macedonians on the southern end of genetic spectrum.

[wvwvw]

wwvw is a sock for Queen delirious

Chances are greater that you're a sock of "CabOOM" or Laberia. You all sound like a broken record.

[Voskos]

I did say it is my opinion. I didn't say it is fact.

However, I think it is accurate. Still my opinion.

If you want me to elaborate into a discussion we had previously of why Greece doesn't recognize minorities, I will.

There are Arvanita, Vlach, Romei, Pontians, Anatolians, Bulgarians, Cappadocians, Roma, Turks, Pomaks, Cyprians, Cretans, etc.

"Greek" ethnos is made by these people loosing their identity into the "Greek" one. Recognition of minorities is problematic in achieving this.


You can however believe what you want and I can what I want
cypriots and cretans have spoken Greek for millenia and the fact you lump them together with Arvanites and Vlachs shows that you are not informed very well on such things. Basically you often start your reasoning by false assumptions and therefore end up drawing the wrong conclusions.

[wvwvw]

Are you sure this person is fully ethnic Greek and not a Slav from Greece? His results are almost the same as Bulgarians and Macedonians on the southern end of genetic spectrum.

Eurogenes K13
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 21.38
2 Atlantic 15.08
3 West_Asian 14.51
4 Baltic 13.91
5 West_Med 12.83
6 North_Sea 10.44
7 Eastern_Euro 7.52
8 Red_Sea 3.72
9 Southeast_Asian 0.62

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek 5.33
2 Bulgarian 6.24
3 Greek_Thessaly 7.16
4 Romanian 8.76
5 Central_Greek 9.57
6 Italian_Abruzzo 9.62
7 Ashkenazi 10.19
8 East_Sicilian 10.81
9 Tuscan 11.98
10 West_Sicilian 11.98
11 Serbian 12.85
12 South_Italian 12.99
13 North_Italian 16.07
14 Italian_Jewish 17.4
15 Moldavian 17.49
16 Sephardic_Jewish 17.5
17 Algerian_Jewish 18.61
18 Croatian 19.29
19 Austrian 19.33
20 Hungarian 20.09


These are my Eurogenes K13 results (Peloponnesian). Calculators can vary wildly.

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 23.16
2 East_Med 22.78
3 North_Atlantic 18.28
4 Baltic 17.98
5 West_Asian 14.62
6 Red_Sea 2.21
7 Oceanian 0.67
8 Siberian 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 4.82
2 Bulgarian 8.49
3 Central_Greek 9.37
4 Italian_Abruzzo 10.44
5 Romanian 10.83
6 East_Sicilian 11.11
7 West_Sicilian 11.7
8 Tuscan 11.87
9 South_Italian 13.6
10 Ashkenazi 14.34
11 North_Italian 14.89
12 Serbian 15.14
13 Algerian_Jewish 19.7
14 Italian_Jewish 20.09
15 Moldavian 20.14
16 Sephardic_Jewish 20.22
17 Portuguese 22.79
18 Spanish_Extremadura 22.99
19 Hungarian 23.3
20 Croatian 23.31

[Lioncourt]

There is a linguistic boundary in Greek Macedonia, regions around Grevena, Naoussa, Chalkidike, Serres, and south of Kastoria speak Greek as their mother language. Areas around Florina, Edessa, and Kilkis were bilingual in Greek and Slavic. *****, a member of this forum has ancestry from a Slavic speaking region, his results are halfway between a regular Greek mainlander and a Bulgarian. As far as Epirus, its hard to tell if they have Albanian influence because Greeks and Albanians plot nearly identically, but Greeks from Northern Epirus are certaintly mixed.

I have ancestry from Kastoria from maternal side. My whole neighbourhood in Plovdiv was created by Bulgarians who came from Aegean Macedonia. Other big towns like Burgas and Stara Zagora has majority and sizeable minority, respectively, by people who migrated from Aegean Macedonia or Eastern Thrace.

[CabOOM]

*Hellenic

Rightttt.......


cypriots and cretans have spoken Greek for millenia and the fact you lump them together with Arvanites and Vlachs shows that you are not informed very well on such things. Basically you often start your reasoning by false assumptions and therefore end up drawing the wrong conclusions.

That is your opinion. Your opinion on who is Greek seems to be based on who speaks the Koine dialect of a language we call Greek. If that is your definition on who is Greek.

[CabOOM]

What minorities we don't recognize you idiot? The Albanian immigrants that came in the 90s?

The Arvanites have always identified as Greeks since the down of history. You have been the ones who have been hijacking their identity and appropriating their history. You have been the ones who have denied them their right to self-identication.

The Cypriots and Pontians have always had a Greek conscience since the down of history. They were the first of all Greeks who introduced the Greek language to Greece. The Vlachs who's genetics show they are Greeks have been living side by side with the rest of Greeks for at least 1000 years.

All those people took part in the Greek ethnogenesis. They all identify as Greeks and always have since the down of history.

Greece does not have ethnic minorities, like Romania has Germans/Hungarians, Turkey has Kurds, or Russia has Chechens. It is one of the most homogenous countries in Europe.

The only minority we have is the Muslim minority in Thrace who are free to identify as they wish, just like everyone else in Greece is.

You're the judge on who has the right to self-determination, who is a minority, and who is Greek. Congratulations on your role.

Western society doesn't rely on a individuals to determine these things. It's usually measured through a democratic process of making censuses.

As a Hellene individual, you probably know best though. These Westerners, you know.....

[Voskos]

Rightttt.......



That is your opinion. You opinion on who is Greek seems to be based on who speaks the Koine dialect of a language we call Greek. If that is your definition on who is Greek.

language, religion and culture are some of the main things that constitute an ethnicity. That's how it is, not my problem if you aren't ok with that.

[wvwvw]

cypriots and cretans have spoken Greek for millenia and the fact you lump them together with Arvanites and Vlachs shows that you are not informed very well on such things. Basically you often start your reasoning by false assumptions and therefore end up drawing the wrong conclusions.

Every region in Greece has its own customs and traditions that are respected. Cretans have different customs than Thracians for example, Cypriots have their own traditions, the same goes for Greeks from their ancestral home in Albania, yet they all have identified as Greeks for millenia of years.

[Coolguy1]

I have ancestry from Kastoria from maternal side. My whole neighbourhood in Plovdiv was created by Bulgarians who came from Aegean Macedonia. Other big towns like Burgas and Stara Zagora has majority and sizeable minority, respectively, by people who migrated from Aegean Macedonia or Eastern Thrace.

There are also whole neighborhoods in northern Greek cities that have been repopulated by Greeks from northern and eastern Thrace. Philipoupolis, Adrianople, Burgas, etc.

[Crn Volk]

There are also whole neighborhoods in northern Greek cities that have been repopulated by Greeks from northern and eastern Thrace. Philipoupolis, Adrianople, Burgas, etc.

Products of the Megali Idea

[CabOOM]

language, religion and culture are some of the main things that constitute an ethnicity. That's how it is, not my problem if you aren't ok with that.

I have no problem with your definition.

I am simply having a discussion with members who seem to think they're entitled to define what constitutes a minority.

We are all here understanding Hellene mentality.

[wvwvw]

Rightttt.......

That is your opinion. You opinion on who is Greek seems to be based on who speaks the Koine dialect of a language we call Greek. If that is your definition on who is Greek.

No these people speak Greek dialects that can be traced back to antiquity.

Ever since antiquity when Greece was divided in Greek City States, all of them under the definition of the Greek nation according to Herodotus «όμοαιμον, ομόγλωσσον, ομόθρησκον, ομότροπον» (omemon – same blood, omoglosson – same language, omothriskon – same religion, omotropon – same ways, behaviour.), but with any Greek City State maintaining it’s independent leadership and rulers, with their own alliances and their own civil wars in the Greek region.

From Homer up to Herodotus who also mentions that ” το Ελληνικόν γλώσση αιεί τη αυτή διαχράται ” (a general translation as ”the Greek language has always been spoken”) and in the pass of time, in this long Greek history, the Greeks were calling themselves with a variety of names. (Ex. Hellenes, Achaeans, Ionians, Grecians, Romioi etc. ) they also had their personal introduction beyond their father’s names, who preserves the tendency for a Greek to distinguish himself with pride for the city he comes from. This localism is something we continue to have as Greeks until today.

Every Greek then and every Greek today, continue to introduce to each other with their family name and the place they live or the place they descend from. When a Greek wanted back then or wants until today to introduce himself according to their birthplace and local heritage, mentions that he is for example Thessalian from the town of Trikala, or Volos, of that he is a Thracian from Alexandroupolis, or Kavala, or that he is a Cretan from Chania or Heraklion, or that he is Macedonian from Thessaloniki, or that he is a Peloponnesian from Sparta. A very specific and simple introduction which of course foreigners ignore, as it is natural to ignore the Greek language and habits that the Greeks like any other nation, have with each other.

[Queen B]

What minorities we don't recognize you idiot? The Albanian immigrants that came in the 90s?
Immigrants cannot be an ethnic minority anyway.
Ethnic minorities under law is about citizens of a country.

[CabOOM]

No these people speak Greek dialects that can be traced back to antiquity.

Ever since antiquity when Greece was divided in Greek City States, all of them under the definition of the Greek nation according to Herodotus «όμοαιμον, ομόγλωσσον, ομόθρησκον, ομότροπον» (omemon – same blood, omoglosson – same language, omothriskon – same religion, omotropon – same ways, behaviour.), but with any Greek City State maintaining it’s independent leadership and rulers, with their own alliances and their own civil wars in the Greek region.

From Homer up to Herodotus who also mentions that ” το Ελληνικόν γλώσση αιεί τη αυτή διαχράται ” (a general translation as ”the Greek language has always been spoken”) and in the pass of time, in this long Greek history, the Greeks were calling themselves with a variety of names. (Ex. Hellenes, Achaeans, Ionians, Grecians, Romioi etc. ) they also had their personal introduction beyond their father’s names, who preserves the tendency for a Greek to distinguish himself with pride for the city he comes from. This localism is something we continue to have as Greeks until today.

Every Greek then and every Greek today, continue to introduce to each other with their family name and the place they live or the place they descend from. When a Greek wanted back then or wants until today to introduce himself according to their birthplace and local heritage, mentions that he is for example Thessalian from the town of Trikala, or Volos, of that he is a Thracian from Alexandroupolis, or Kavala, or that he is a Cretan from Chania or Heraklion, or that he is Macedonian from Thessaloniki, or that he is a Peloponnesian from Sparta. A very specific and simple introduction which of course foreigners ignore, as it is natural to ignore the Greek language and habits that the Greeks like any other nation, have with each other.

How does someone say all this with a straight face. LOlll

Like this guy or differently?
http://images.esellerpro.com/2372/I/183/802/L%20MENS%20SPARTACUS%20GLADIATOR%20-%20EM-3196.jpg

[Voskos]

I have no problem with your definition.

I am simply having a discussion with members who seem to think they're entitled to define what constitutes a minority.

We are all here understanding Hellene mentality.

If they're wrong then that's not my problem.On the other hand you do not seem to have an accurate definition yourself either , especially when claiming that groups such as Anatolian Greeks and and Cypriots should be given minority status. That is simply ridiculous and disrespectful.

[CabOOM]

Immigrants cannot be an ethnic minority anyway.
Ethnic minorities under law is about citizens of a country.

I thought censuses were required in the European Union. By law that is.

But, hey. You're Hellene individuals. Screw EU.

[CabOOM]

If they're wrong then that's not my problem.On the other hand you do not seem to have an accurate definition yourself either , especially when claiming that groups such as Anatolian Greeks and and Cypriots should be given minority status. That is simply ridiculous and disrespectful.

You know what's disrespectful? Denying people self determination. Denying groups of people the right to exist. Persecuting people for the language they speak. Lots of disrespectful things the Greek government does, beyond my assumption that Pontians and Anatolians may want to be identified as a minority if given the chance.

Your opinion though. There are democratic way these things can be decided.

[Queen B]

I thought censuses were required in the European Union. By law that is.

But, hey. You're Hellene individuals. Screw EU.
Census for the population, sure. We do ever -1 year (2001,2011,etc)

Where does it say that it requires the ''self-determination'' of each individual or something similar?
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/ramon/statmanuals/files/KS-RA-11-006-EN.pdf

I see as requirements

Persons

-Place of usual residence (GEO.N., GEO.L., GEO.M., GEO.H.)
-Location of place of work (LPW.N., LPW.L.)
-(Size of the) locality (LOC.)
-Sex (SEX.)
-Age (AGE.L., AGE.M., AGE.H.)
-Legal marital status (LMS.)
-Current activity status (CAS.L., CAS.H.)
-Occupation (OCC.)
-Industry (branch of economic activity) (IND.L., IND.H.)
-Status in employment (SIE.)
-Educational attainment (EDU.)
-Country/place of birth (POB.L., POB.M., POB.H.)
-Country of citizenship (COC.L., COC.M., COC.H.)
-Ever resided abroad and year of arrival in the country (YAT., YAE.L., YAE.H.)
-Place of residence one year prior to the census (ROY.)
-Household status (HST.L., HST.M., HST.H.)
-Family status (FST.L., FST.H.)
-Housing arrangements (HAR.L., HAR.H.)

[wvwvw]

Products of the Megali Idea

The 'Megali Idea' was what drove Greece to be free of the Ottoman Empire i.e. to throw out the Turkish invaders and occupiers. It was what drove Greek Independence. Independence from the Ottoman Empire.

You are insinuating that Greece wants to invade its neighbours like Eastern Thrace, Istanbul and Anatolia (Pontus). All these places once contained majority Greek populations. They were ethnically cleansed by true 'genocide'. 50% of the population of Pontus was murdered between 1915 and 1923 mainly (ethnic cleansing has been ongoing and is still ongoing in Turkey... 100,000 people have died in the civil war against the Kurds). There was a population of 250,000 Greek people in Constantinople (now called Istanbul)... there are now only 2,000 Greeks there. That was before current borders were established between the Greece and the newly energed Turkish Republic, or the newly emerged Balkan countries.

The Megali idea is not about expanding to areas where there are no Greeks like Skopjans, Turks and Albanians presently aspire. Show me a Greek map where parts of Fyrom are depicted as Greece. I can show you countless maps in Skopjan schools where a huge part of Greece is depicted as part of Fyrom. This is no Megali idea, this is your insane idea.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2qapb7r.jpg

http://www.protothema.gr/Images/ImageHandler.ashx?m=Fit&f=Ly8xMC4yMDEuMTAuMjMwL3Byd2ViZGF0YS9maWxlcy8xLzIw MTQvMDIvMjIvc2tvcGlhLmpwZw%3d%3d&t=0&w=1000&h=1000

http://www.pronews.gr/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/article/2014/02/22/skopia%20%283%29.jpg?itok=53HpCwRK

Note how your maps include half of Greece, not just Macedonia, going as south as Larisa!

http://i63.tinypic.com/11r51rs.jpg

[CabOOM]

Census for the population, sure. We do ever -1 year (2001,2011,etc)

Where does it say that it requires the ''self-determination'' of each individual or something similar?
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/ramon/statmanuals/files/KS-RA-11-006-EN.pdf

I see as requirements

Persons

-Place of usual residence (GEO.N., GEO.L., GEO.M., GEO.H.)
-Location of place of work (LPW.N., LPW.L.)
-(Size of the) locality (LOC.)
-Sex (SEX.)
-Age (AGE.L., AGE.M., AGE.H.)
-Legal marital status (LMS.)
-Current activity status (CAS.L., CAS.H.)
-Occupation (OCC.)
-Industry (branch of economic activity) (IND.L., IND.H.)
-Status in employment (SIE.)
-Educational attainment (EDU.)
-Country/place of birth (POB.L., POB.M., POB.H.)
-Country of citizenship (COC.L., COC.M., COC.H.)
-Ever resided abroad and year of arrival in the country (YAT., YAE.L., YAE.H.)
-Place of residence one year prior to the census (ROY.)
-Household status (HST.L., HST.M., HST.H.)
-Family status (FST.L., FST.H.)
-Housing arrangements (HAR.L., HAR.H.)

I never said self-determination is a requirement. That was in reference to mongre. I said, there are a lot more disrespectful things the Greek government does to groups of people in Greece, than me assuming Pontians and Anatolians may see self themselves differently than the rest of you Hellenes.

It's not like you can have a conversation with someone who believes they're a teddy bear. I mean, a proud Hellene from many years ago.


The delusions of you people.

[Voskos]

You know what's disrespectful? Denying people self determination. Denying groups of people the right to exist. Persecuting people for the language they speak. Lots of disrespectful things the Greek government does, beyond my assumption that Pontians and Anatolians may want to be identified as a minority if given the chance.

Your opinion though. There are democratic way these things can be decided.

Who told you speaking any language is frowned upon by the state?False assumption number one

beyond my assumption that Pontians and Anatolians may want to be identified as a minority if given the chance. False assumption number 2

and many other in your posts

[CabOOM]

Who told you speaking any language is frowned upon by the state?False assumption number one
. False assumption number 2

and many other in your posts

Ok, man.

We agree to disagree then.

[Crn Volk]

The 'Megali Idea' was what drove Greece to be free of the Ottoman Empire i.e. to throw out the Turkish invaders and occupiers. It was what drove Greek Independence. Independence from the Ottoman Empire.

You are insinuating that Greece wants to invade its neighbours like Eastern Thrace, Istanbul and Anatolia (Pontus). All these places once contained majority Greek populations. They were ethnically cleansed by true 'genocide'. 50% of the population of Pontus was murdered between 1915 and 1923 mainly (ethnic cleansing has been ongoing and is still ongoing in Turkey... 100,000 people have died in the civil war against the Kurds). There was a population of 250,000 Greek people in Constantinople (now called Istanbul)... there are now only 2,000 Greeks there. That was before current borders were established between the Greece and the newly energed Turkish Republic, or the newly emerged Balkan countries.

The Megali idea is not about expanding to areas where there are no Greeks like Skopjans, Turks and Albanians presently aspire. Show me a Greek map where parts of Fyrom are depicted as Greece. I can show you countless maps in Skopjan schools where a huge part of Greece is depicted as part of Fyrom. This is no Megali idea, this is your insane idea.



Note how your maps include half of Greece, not just Macedonia, going as south as Larisa!




https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/ParisPeace-Venizelos-Map.png

http://www.xryshaygh.com/assets/images/news/xarthis_makedinias.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Greater-hellas-052810-blue-ORIGINAL-SMALL.PNG

[wvwvw]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/ParisPeace-Venizelos-Map.png

http://www.xryshaygh.com/assets/images/news/xarthis_makedinias.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Greater-hellas-052810-blue-ORIGINAL-SMALL.PNG

Those are historical maps, and maps done by amateurs. Your maps are shown in schools, and in your parliament by politicians who openly dispute already established borders and signed treaties. Ali Berisha, and many Albanian politicians for example, published in their official website videos of greater albania that included large chunks of Greece and Montenegro. Imagine a Greek minister of the government doing that. And yet that's your official line and you always have the strong backing of Turkey in your every territorial claim against Greece. An Albo-Fyromian-Turkish arrow encircles Greece.

[CabOOM]

Those are historical maps, and maps done by amateurs. Your maps are shown in schools, and in your parliament by politicians who openly dispute already established borders and signed treaties. Ali Berisha, and many Albanian politicians for example, published in their official website videos of greater albania that included large chunks of Greece and Montenegro. That's your official line and you always have the strong backing of Turkey in your every territorial claim against Greece.

Greece will have to choose a direction it wants to solve its problems. Being friendless, poor, and delusional will not last long.

Right, Greece continues to uphold the Erdogan-Albanian colonization of Greece to its masses. I always forget the depth of delusion you people live in.

[wvwvw]

And by the way I don't see anything strange

Having Bulgaria as a second reference means that this person lives somewhere in Macedonia or Thrace.

Nothing strange about the results.

I have Bulgaria as a second reference in this calculator, and I don't have a single relative from Northern Greece. This is in fact the only calculator in which I have Bulgaria so high up. Oddest thing of all is that my Baltic is 17 while that guys is 13! :confused:

[Voskos]

Greece will have to choose a direction it wants to solve its problems. Being friendless, poor, and delusional will not last long.

Right, Greece continues to uphold the Erdogan-Albanian colonization of Greece to its masses. I always forget the depth of delusion you people live in.

We're already in several alliances. Also with Bulgaria we have 100% normalized relations despite the past conflicts which proves we aren't as bigoted as you want to make us look like.

[wvwvw]

Greece will have to choose a direction it wants to solve its problems. Being friendless, poor, and delusional will not last long.

Right, Greece continues to uphold the Erdogan-Albanian colonization of Greece to its masses. I always forget the depth of delusion you people live in.

We don't need to be friends with Islamofascists and countries that don't respect International law and established borders and treaties. That's cuckoldry. Our friends are those who respect the eu courts, laws and international agreemements.

[CabOOM]

We don't need to be friends with Islamofascists and countries that don't respect International law and established borders and treaties. That's cuckoldry. Our friends are those who respect the eu courts, laws and international agreemements.

All these ill conceived assumptions you people are fed. No wonder you have a popular Nazi party.

If I was a Hellene in Greece, I'd be embarrassed by what you say.

[wvwvw]

All these ill conceived assumptions you people are fed. No wonder you have a popular Nazi party.

If I was a Hellene in Greece, I'd be embarrassed by what you say.

Be embarassed by what your politicians, former UCK thugs say.

I have never seen any other ethnicity adore as much the Nazis as the Albanians.

[Peterski]

I got mainly East Euro on this ancestrydna test yet on gedmatch and other sites it shows me that I have predominantly Balkan heritage. The east euro category on ancestry is strange because they count Balkan as east europe

Balkans = South-Eastern Europe. And for example Belarus = North-Eastern Europe.

[CabOOM]

Be embarassed by what your politicians, former UCK thugs say.

I have never seen any other ethnicity adore as much the Nazis as the Albanians.

I'm not embarrassed of the UCK. I'm embarrassed of the politicians. As I feel the embarrassment of every Greek, by what you say.

[Sikeliot]

Yeah as I said, nothing strange!

The thing is some people think that all Greeks should have the same results as Cretans do!

Nonsense!


On the MDLP k23 calculator on Eurogenes, north Greeks do not even get Sicily or Crete in their top 20 closest populations.

[wvwvw]

On the MDLP k23 calculator on Eurogenes, north Greeks do not even get Sicily or Crete in their top 20 closest populations.

It always depend on the calculator. Sometimes I don't get Sicily in my top 20 closest populations. In othet calculators they are among my top.

[kleenex]

It always depend on the calculator. Sometimes I don't get Sicily in my top 20 closest populations. In othet calculators they are among my top.

Peloponnesian results and Northern Greek results are pretty close. There is very little variation North to South just compare your results to the one's Sikeliot posted.

[Bobby Martnen]

The Eastern Europe component in AncestryDNA includes Balkan peoples like Serbs

[Peterski]

The Eastern Europe component in AncestryDNA includes Balkan peoples like Serbs

Source?

[Queen B]

You know what's disrespectful? Denying people self determination. Denying groups of people the right to exist. Persecuting people for the language they speak. Lots of disrespectful things the Greek government does, beyond my assumption that Pontians and Anatolians may want to be identified as a minority if given the chance.
Your opinion though. There are democratic way these things can be decided.
Who is the government persecuting of their language?
Who is denying to self-determine?
Who (lol) we are denying existance?

[CabOOM]

Who is the government persecuting of their language?
Who is denying to self-determine?
Who (lol) we are denying existance?

The Cams in Greece maybe? I'll give you some other examples: Arvanita, Vlach, Romei, Pontians, Anatolians, Bulgarians, Cappadocians, Roma, Turks, Pomaks, Cyprians, Cretans, etc.

How do you consistently say stupid things?

Why doesn't Greece follow international norms and laws, by recognizing its minorities?

[wvwvw]

The Cams in Greece maybe? I'll give you some other examples: Arvanita, Vlach, Romei, Pontians, Anatolians, Bulgarians, Cappadocians, Roma, Turks, Pomaks, Cyprians, Cretans, etc.

How do you consistently say stupid things?

Why doesn't Greece follow international norms and laws, by recognizing its minorities?

There were 18,000 Chams in Greece and they together with their families fled to Albania to avoid being tried in courts. So no more Chams in Greece.

The Pontians and Asia Minor Greeks, the Greek Arvanites, the Vlachs, the Cretans, the Peloponnesians all are Greeks and have had a Greek conscience since forever.

The Cypriots don't live in Greece and most Pontians don't live in Greece. Cypriots in case you haven't noticed have their own Independent country.

Whom you mean by Romei? I assume you mean Romioi which is just another ethnonym for Greeks.

There is no Bulgarian minority in Greece, unless you consider any Greek with shared Bulgarian or Greek admixture as Bulgarian, which is laughable. Is there a Greek minority in Bulgaria?

The Romas, Turks and Pomaks are part of the Muslim minority in Thrace. Turks are taught in Turkish and their rights are respected although their rights were contingent to that of the Greek minority in Turkey. They were allowed to stay in Greece UNDER THE CONDITION the rights of the Greeks in Turkey would be respected. Which did not happen.

The Pomaks in Thrace are allowed to identify as they wish. They are mentioned in Byzantine sources even before the arrival of Bulgarians in the Balkans. The Slavicized Pomaks are free to identify as they wish. Most identify as Greek Muslims. The base of the Pomak (verbs and a lot's of simple substantives) are Greek so these words can't be loans. Furthermore the Pomaks who live in mountenly areas like the area around Dydimoteiho used to speak pure Greek.

Two times after both Wold Wars they asked to be a part of Greece and they strongly denied to be a part of Bulgaria or Turkey. Also why the Pomaks of Bulgaria are learning the Turkish as their mother language today? Unfortunately the Pomaks in both Greece and Bulgaria are taken advantage of by the Turks because of their Muslim faith.

Next Cretans: Lmao at implying that we are denying them their rights. Their Minoan rights? Or their right to identify as Greek Cretans?

And how are the gypsies being denied their rights. They have Romani unions, participate in the international Romani congress and those who identify as Greek are free to do so. Many of them are quite patriotic and proud to serve in the Greek army.

[CabOOM]

There were 18,000 Chams in Greece and they together with their families fled to Albania to avoid being tried in courts. So no more Chams in Greece.

The Pontians and Asia Minor Greeks, the Greek Arvanites, the Vlachs, the Cretans, the Peloponnesians all are Greeks and have had a Greek conscience since forever.

The Cypriots don't live in Greece and most Pontians don't live in Greece. Cypriots in case you haven't noticed have their own Independent country.

Whom you mean by Romei? I assume you mean Romioi which is just another ethnonym for Greeks.

There is no Bulgarian minority in Greece, unless you consider any Greek with shared Bulgarian or Greek admixture as Bulgarian, which is laughable. Is there a Greek minority in Bulgaria?

The Romas, Turks and Pomaks are part of the Muslim minority in Thrace. Turks are taught in Turkish and their rights are respected although their rights were contingent to that of the Greek minority in Turkey. They were allowed to stay in Greece UNDER THE CONDITION the rights of the Greeks in Turkey would be respected. Which did not happen.

The Pomaks in Thrace are allowed to identify as they wish. They are mentioned in Byzantine sources even before the arrival of Bulgarians in the Balkans. The Slavicized Pomaks are free to identify as they wish. Most identify as Greek Muslims. The base of the Pomak (verbs and a lot's of simple substantives) are Greek so these words can't be loans. Furthermore the Pomaks who live in mountenly areas like the area around Dydimoteiho used to speak pure Greek.

Two times after both Wold Wars they asked to be a part of Greece and they strongly denied to be a part of Bulgaria or Turkey. Also why the Pomaks of Bulgaria are learning the Turkish as their mother language today? Unfortunately the Pomaks in both Greece and Bulgaria are taken advantage of by the Turks because of their Muslim faith.

Next Cretans: Lmao at implying that we are denying them their rights. Their Minoan rights? Or their right to identify as Greek Cretans?

And how are the gypsies being denied their rights. They have Romani unions, participate in the international Romani congress and those who identify as Greek are free to do so. Many of them are quite patriotic and proud to serve in the Greek army.

I assume you asked a friend, who knows a friend, whose a good guy. I should believe you now. This is why we have censuses. In Greece you seem to be the census maker. Interesting Hellene tactic.

[Bobby Martnen]

Products of the Megali Idea

Megali Idea was good - Constantinople, Smyrna, Cyprus - All should be returned to Greece

[wvwvw]

I assume you asked a friend, who knows a friend, whose a good guy. I should believe you now. This is why we have censuses. In Greece you seem to be the census maker. Interesting Hellene tactic.

That's an Albanian tactic actually. I already gave you UN censuses about the number of Chams in Greece before their expulsion. No census show any Albanian minority in Greece. The Albanian immigrants who arrived in the 90's and 00's are considered an immigrant minority.

[CabOOM]

That's an Albanian tactic actually. I already gave you UN censuses about the number of Chams in Greece before their expulsion. No census show any Albanian minority in Greece. The Albanian immigrants who arrived in the 90's and 00's are considered an immigrant minority.

These same Cams that number more than 200,000 people today? You don't need a census for these Cams. The Cams you need a census for is the ones in Greece. The Orthodox Cams. The ones that are refusing assimilation into gayreekness. I mean refusing assimilation into Hellene individuals, of-course.

[wvwvw]

Megali Idea was good - Constantinople, Smyrna, Cyprus - All should be returned to Greece

According to the Treaty of Sevres, Smyrna and most of the coast of Asia-Minor was part of Greece, since for millenia of years it was considered as Greek as Crete or Peloponnese.

The Treaty of Sevres, signed in 1920 to end WW1 ceded the whole western coast of Asia-Minor to Greece. Turkish Adolf Hitler Mustafa Kemal violated the treaty it signed and begun genociding the Greeks forcing the Greeks to defend themselves against mass genocide by the Turks and were expecting the Great Powers to uphold the treaty.

[Bobby Martnen]

According to the Treaty of Sevres, Smyrna and most of the coast of Asia-Minor was part of Greece, since for millenia of years it was considered as Greek as Crete or Peloponnese.

The Treaty of Sevres, signed in 1920 to end WW1 ceded the whole western coast of Asia-Minor to Greece. Turkish Adolf Hitler Mustafa Kemal violated the treaty it signed and begun genociding the Greeks forcing the Greeks to defend themselves against mass genocide by the Turks and were expecting the Great Powers to uphold the treaty.

Kemal (I refuse to call him Ataturk) was a thoroughly evil man who is burning in Hell and will continue to do so until the end of forever.

Just like the Jews regained their ancient capital after centuries of exile, so will the Greeks

[wvwvw]

These same Cams that number more than 200,000 people today? You don't need a census for these Cams. The Cams you need a census for is the ones in Greece. The Orthodox Cams. The ones that are refusing assimilation into gayreekness. I mean refusing assimilation into Hellene individuals, of-course.

Where is the census showing 200,000 Chams in Greece? Especially when the whole population of Epirus is 200,000. Even the majority of the Orthodox Christians in Albania belong to the Greek minority much of which has assimilated into the Albanian population. None of these self-declared "Chams" can show they didn't arrive to Greece in the past two decades.

And since you claim the Chams are indigenous to Greece that makes them Islamized Greeks. Its etymology derives from the ancient Greek name of the Thyamis river. You cannot accept the fact that Albanians were invaders in Greece brought in by the Ottomans, and that together with the Ottomans and later with the Nazis commited attrocities against the Greek population. They were expelled (fled) when we gained out Independence from the Ottomans and their hence men the Albanians.

[CabOOM]

Kemal (I refuse to call him Ataturk) was a thoroughly evil man who is burning in Hell and will continue to do so until the end of forever.

Just like the Jews regained their ancient capital after centuries of exile, so will the Greeks

You might want to call him by his real last name. Canka! Father form the village of Stebleve, Diber, Albania. Mother from the village of Sebisht, Diber, Albania

[Voskos]

...

[Queen B]

The Cams in Greece maybe? I'll give you some other examples: Arvanita, Vlach, Romei, Pontians, Anatolians, Bulgarians, Cappadocians, Roma, Turks, Pomaks, Cyprians, Cretans, etc.
How do you consistently say stupid things?
Why doesn't Greece follow international norms and laws, by recognizing its minorities?
Let's start one by one

Chams : You (your people) whine that they got expelled (while in reality they left to avoid prosecution). Decide , did we kept them or we expelled them?
Vlachs+Arvanites : Both groups self-identify as Greeks. Is there any request by them ( and their associations) that they should be a minority?
Romei: What is that ?
Pontians+Cretans: They are Greeks. Go tell them they should be a minority in their own country. You'll see the other side of the riffle pointed on your ass.
Roma (Thrace) +Turks+Pomaks: are all part of the recognized Muslim minority. They have their own religious buildings+schools, they have language schools, and benefits from the Greek state that they should not have.
Cypriots: the majority of the Cypriots in Greece hold a Cypriot citizenship. Even those that hold a Greek citizenship what they have to ''request'' as a minority? They are ethnic Greeks and they speak Greek. What will Greek state ''offer'' more to them ? Btw, ''Ethnic'' minorities mean that they have a different ethnicity of the majority population. Cypriots don't.
Capadocians+Anatolians : What about them and who you consider as Anatolians?
Roma (non-Thrace): Romas are the only ethnic group that self-identify as non-Greeks and at the same time are numerous enough to be considered a minority.
However while (sure, why not, they could easily be an Ethnic minority and recognized as such), Roma is the most privileged group in Greece. They are given free housing by the sate, where instead of populating it they re-rent to earn money, they have special schooling benefits, healthcare,etcetc.
Bulgarians: While there are Greek citizens of Bulgarian origin as leftovers , the majority left after Balkan wars and civil-war. I'm not sure they are of a significant to consist a minority and there was never an issue of them being a minority, neither by the Ethnic Bulgarians, nor by Bulgarian state.

[CabOOM]

Let's start one by one

Chams : You (your people) whine that they got expelled (while in reality they left to avoid prosecution). Decide , did we kept them or we expelled them?
Vlachs+Arvanites : Both groups self-identify as Greeks. Is there any request by them ( and their associations) that they should be a minority?
Romei: What is that ?
Pontians+Cretans: They are Greeks. Go tell them they should be a minority in their own country. You'll see the other side of the riffle pointed on your ass.
Roma (Thrace) +Turks+Pomaks: are all part of the recognized Muslim minority. They have their own religious buildings+schools, they have language schools, and benefits from the Greek state that they should not have.
Cypriots: the majority of the Cypriots in Greece hold a Cypriot citizenship. Even those that hold a Greek citizenship what they have to ''request'' as a minority? They are ethnic Greeks and they speak Greek. What will Greek state ''offer'' more to them ? Btw, ''Ethnic'' minorities mean that they have a different ethnicity of the majority population. Cypriots don't.
Capadocians+Anatolians : What about them and who you consider as Anatolians?
Roma (non-Thrace): Romas are the only ethnic group that self-identify as non-Greeks and at the same time are numerous enough to be considered a minority.
However while (sure, why not, they could easily be an Ethnic minority and recognized as such), Roma is the most privileged group in Greece. They are given free housing by the sate, where instead of populating it they re-rent to earn money, they have special schooling benefits, healthcare,etcetc.
Bulgarians: While there are Greek citizens of Bulgarian origin as leftovers , the majority left after Balkan wars and civil-war. I'm not sure they are of a significant to consist a minority and there was never an issue of them being a minority, neither by the Ethnic Bulgarians, nor by Bulgarian state.
Congratulations on your role on determining who is and who isn't a minority group. In Western society we usually have censuses to measure these things. It is part of what we call Democracy. Even closed systems have censuses though. I wonder why Greece doesn't.

[Voskos]

Congratulations on your role on determining who is and who isn't a minority group. In Western society we usually have censuses to measure these things. It is part of what we call Democracy. Even closed systems have censuses though. I wonder why Greece doesn't.

which are these western societies you're speaking about?albania is not western in a any possible way.and greece is southern-southeastern

[CabOOM]

...

I did see your quote before you deleted it.

I wonder what you are so mad about.


which are these western societies you're speaking about?albania is not western in a any possible way.and greece is southern-southeastern

The last census Albania had was in 2011. It recorded 24,000 self identifying Greeks in Albania, making less than 1% of the population. In USA, we have all kinds of censuses. Here, we celebrate our differences.

I don't really understand what you are disagreeing with.

Do you believe there just aren't any minorities in Greece? Do you believe that Greece should simply not have censuses because there simply are no minorities in Greece? The other Hellenes made clear this is what they think. Is this what you think also, and are you simply mad that its even being discussed?

[Voskos]

I did see your quote before you deleted it.

I wonder what you are so mad about.



The last census Albania had was in 2011. It recorded 24,000 self identifying Greeks in Albania, making less than 1% of the population. In USA, we have all kinds of censuses. Here, we celebrate our differences.

I don't really understand what you are disagreeing with.

Do you believe there just aren't any minorities in Greece? Do you believe that Greece should simply not have censuses because there simply are no minorities in Greece? The other Hellenes made clear this is what they think. Is this what you think also, and are you simply mad that its even being discussed?

Are you suggesting that we have a charlatanistic census like yours(see below) or a true ethnicity census?


the Albanian parliament changed the Census law, establishing a fine of $1,000 to every citizen that declares an ethnicity different from what was written down

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Justice,_Integration_and_Unity

[CabOOM]

Are you suggesting that we have a charlatanistic census like yours(see below) or a true ethnicity census?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Justice,_Integration_and_Unity

You didn't answer any of the questions.

Hellenes, you know. Ancient proud Hellens don't need to answer question. They just need to say more stupid things.

[Voskos]

You didn't answer any of the questions.

Hellenes, you know. Ancient proud Hellens don't need to answer question. They just need to say more stupid things.

you didn't specify which type of census you want. the albanian-style charlatanistic one or the western-style one?

[Queen B]

Congratulations on your role on determining who is and who isn't a minority group. In Western society we usually have censuses to measure these things. It is part of what we call Democracy. Even closed systems have censuses though. I wonder why Greece doesn't.
Dude, do you even know what a minority is , and why minorities are recognized or not under the law?
From your answer , it seems that you have no idea.

Do you even know what a census really is? Apparently, you don't know either. Please , ''enlighten'' us.

[Voskos]

Dude, do you even know what a minority is , and why minorities are recognized or not under the law?
From your answer , it seems that you have no idea.

Do you even know what a census really is? Apparently, you don't know either. Please , ''enlighten'' us.

the problem is he turns a blind eye to everything except to what happens in Greece.and on top of that he derailed a thread about Greek genetics to speak of Bulgarian minorities.Only in Albania i guess!

[CabOOM]

you didn't specify which type of census you want. the albanian-style charlatanistic one or the western-style one?

The standard ethnicity self-declaration type of census. Every country in the world does them.


Dude, do you even know what a minority is , and why minorities are recognized or not under the law?
From your answer , it seems that you have no idea.

Do you even know what a census really is? Apparently, you don't know either. Please , ''enlighten'' us.

Do YOU know what a minority is? Are there minorities in Greece?

It is crazy how delusion you people are.


the problem is he turns a blind eye to everything except to what happens in Greece.and on top of that he derailed a thread about Greek genetics to speak of Bulgarian minorities.Only in Albania i guess!

What blind eye man. I'll be the first to criticize anything in Albania or the USA. There no way you could know this. Instead, don't throw personal attacks at me when I'm simply discussing minorities in Greece and the inability of the Greek state to recognize minorities.

Its these Hellenes that opened this discussion by their inability to accept that there are minorities in Greece, which might explain some of the different autosomal data we have in Greece.

Its a series of delusions you people are in. You people have lost the ability to comprehend.

[Voskos]

The standard ethnicity self-declaration type of census. Every country in the world does them.



Do YOU know what a minority is? Are there minorities in Greece?

It is crazy how delusion you people are.



What blind eye man. I'll be the first to criticize anything in Albania or the USA. There no way you could know this. Instead, don't throw personal attacks at me when I'm simply discussing minorities in Greece and the inability of the Greek state to recognize minorities.

Its these Hellenes that opened this discussion by their inability to accept that there are minorities in Greece, which might explain some of the different autosomal data we have in Greece.

Its a series of delusions you people are in. You people have lost the ability to comprehend.

a simple google search would make you realize that 30% E.E is not an outlying result for the balkans.Look at your country's average on this chart ffs!

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/eu-stats-pt24.png

[CabOOM]

a simple google search would make you realize that 30% E.E is not an outlying result for the balkans.Look at your country's average on this chart ffs!

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/eu-stats-pt24.png

It is certainly not.

I'm not sure how reliable that table is.

[Queen B]

The standard ethnicity self-declaration type of census. Every country in the world does them.

Does France?

The classic census that all countries are require to do, does NOT require to mention self-decleration. That's not what census is
. Especially in EU, I posted you what it is required, by law.
Censuses has info about age, sex, marital status, occupation, housing, country of birth and country of citizenship,etc.




Do YOU know what a minority is? Are there minorities in Greece?
A minority is everything that is different from majority,and should by law protected when face discrimination, and should enjoy equal rights with the rest of the citizens, within reason.
Of course, there should be a population enough to consist a minority..

You can have religious minorities , linguistic, ethnic, etc.

Religious :
So, if you are a Muslim of Greek citizenship, and you are numerous enough, the state should provide you what it provides to the majority. Meaning, religious institutions,etc
Since Thrace has lots of Muslims,enough to constitute a minority, there is - indeed- an official religious minority there.
Thrace is full of mosques, it has 2 Islamic seminaries, too.

If there are 50 olympian-god worshippers, or 30 mormons, or 10.000 of Buddhist all around the country, you cannot ask for a country of 11 million to build and fund a temple for them.
They can build one themselfes and fund it , but not the state. It is very disproportionate of the population.
Understood?

Ethnic:
Now, if there is an ethnicity , other than the majority of the population, and they are enough people to constitute a minority, then, this , also should be protected, if requested and needed (Btw, does USA officially recognize ethnic minorities? )
The only numerous group of non-Greek ethnicity is Roma. Roma, as I told you have already many benefits from the state, more than the regular Greeks.

Cretans, Cypriots, Pontians, etc are Ethnic Greeks, and they speak Greek. They are neither an Ethnic minority or a linguistic one.
There are Ethnic Roma, Pomaks and Turks in Thrace (the groups that consist the religious minority), and while there are not seperate ethnic minorities (since it is already decided and signed in the treaty of Lausanne) they do enjoy all the benefits an ethnic minority has (and more)

Linguistic:
Since both Vlachs and Arvanites self-identify as Greeks (go see the official statements and declarations of the various associations they have), they could only make a linguistic one.
There is no request from these associations to the Greek state so they can be a linguistic minority.

[Lavrentis]

a simple google search would make you realize that 30% E.E is not an outlying result for the balkans.Look at your country's average on this chart ffs!

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/eu-stats-pt24.png

Nice graph, did you make it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Voskos]

Nice graph, did you make it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

no, I found it here https://tracingafricanroots.wordpress.com/2017/08/04/ancestrydna-results-from-europe/

[CabOOM]

Does France?

The classic census that all countries are require to do, does NOT require to mention self-decleration. That's not what census is
. Especially in EU, I posted you what it is required, by law.
Censuses has info about age, sex, marital status, occupation, housing, country of birth and country of citizenship,etc.


A minority is everything that is different from majority,and should by law protected when face discrimination, and should enjoy equal rights with the rest of the citizens, within reason.
Of course, there should be a population enough to consist a minority..

You can have religious minorities , linguistic, ethnic, etc.

Religious :
So, if you are a Muslim of Greek citizenship, and you are numerous enough, the state should provide you what it provides to the majority. Meaning, religious institutions,etc
Since Thrace has lots of Muslims,enough to constitute a minority, there is - indeed- an official religious minority there.
Thrace is full of mosques, it has 2 Islamic seminaries, too.

If there are 50 olympian-god worshippers, or 30 mormons, or 10.000 of Buddhist all around the country, you cannot ask for a country of 11 million to build and fund a temple for them.
They can build one themselfes and fund it , but not the state. It is very disproportionate of the population.
Understood?

Ethnic:
Now, if there is an ethnicity , other than the majority of the population, and they are enough people to constitute a minority, then, this , also should be protected, if requested and needed (Btw, does USA officially recognize ethnic minorities? )
The only numerous group of non-Greek ethnicity is Roma. Roma, as I told you have already many benefits from the state, more than the regular Greeks.

Cretans, Cypriots, Pontians, etc are Ethnic Greeks, and they speak Greek. They are neither an Ethnic minority or a linguistic one.
There are Ethnic Roma, Pomaks and Turks in Thrace (the groups that consist the religious minority), and while there are not seperate ethnic minorities (since it is already decided and signed in the treaty of Lausanne) they do enjoy all the benefits an ethnic minority has (and more)

Linguistic:
Since both Vlachs and Arvanites self-identify as Greeks (go see the official statements and declarations of the various associations they have), they could only make a linguistic one.
There is no request from these associations to the Greek state so they can be a linguistic minority.

LOL All these people just feel Greek. Amazing!

And these Arvanita and Vlach don't want to preserve their identity, I assume. They just want to be Gayreek. And there simply are no Cams in Epirus. Only Greek! Amazing!

You have to be just so dumb to believe any of this.

[Queen B]

LOL All these people just feel Greek. Amazing!

And these Arvanita and Vlach don't want to preserve their identity, I assume. They just want to be Gayreek. And there simply are no Cams in Epirus. Only Greek! Amazing!

You have to be just so dumb to believe any of this.

Sure, you know since you live in the USA, and someone living in Greece , doesn't. Make sense.

1)
Dude, find memoirs of prominent Vlach and Arvanites, and see what they write themselves. Don't listen to me. Read the statements of the associations they have.
2)
You know, you have Danish, Germans, etc that settled in Americans 400 years ago. If you ask them, what they will say they are ? Danish or Americans?
3)
Did we expelled the Chams or we kept them? You have to decide.

[Freeroostah]

Its probably native Balkan since Balkans are "East Europe" for AncestryDNA. No big deal..

[Laberia]

Let's start one by one
You and some of your compatriots never stop to spam this forum with the same crap.

Chams : You (your people) whine that they got expelled (while in reality they left to avoid prosecution). Decide , did we kept them or we expelled them?
We have decided and explained many times and you personally laughed after reading how your taleban orthodox, the army of the King of Greece slaughtered an raped elders, women and children. Let me repeat again:
2002
Miranda Vickers:
The Cham Issue: Albanian National and Property Claims in Greece

A small but vocal movement is seeking redress for the massacre and expulsion of Muslim ethnic Albanian inhabitants from Greek territory during the period 1912-45. The Greek government refuses to discuss the issue, which could be fairly easily solved to Greek advantage. Meantime, it is likely to be exploited by both pro- and anti-Albanian elements in the Balkans.

Introduction
..Whereas the Albanians of the former Yugoslavia have been struggling for 89 years to be re-included within the borders of a unified Albanian state, there is one group of around 200,000 Albanians who have ironically found themselves classified as refugees inside Albania. These people are known as Chams.
The Chams are the ethnic Albanian, and predominantly Muslim, population from the area of north western Greece known to Greeks as Threspotia and to Albanians as Chameria. The region, which is centred around the Tsamis river, extends from Butrint and the mouth of the Acheron River to Lake Prespa in the north, eastward to the Pindus mountains and south as far as Preveza and the Gulf of Arta. Nineteenth century British travellers such as Lord Byron and his companion John Hobhouse noted the preponderance of Albanian-speakers in these regions. While there is much comment focused on the position of the Greek minority in Albania, there is very little information about the Albanian minority which remained in Greece after the founding of the Albanian state. Most of these Albanians were originally Christian Orthodox by religion, but converted to Islam during the latter years of the Ottoman occupation. According to a Boston-based web-site which Albanians use to exchange ideas on current affairs, "the Albanians in Greece are divided into two distinct categories: Albanians who live on Albanian territory but who have remained outside the unjust borders which were drawn up by the Ambassadorial Conference (London, 1913), and those Albanians who departed Albanian territory during the first diaspora in the 14th and 15 centuries." (1) These Albanians fled their homeland during the battles against the invading Ottoman Turk and many settled on the island of Euboea. Others went to Italy.

The Cham conflict arose as a result of the delineation of the border between Greece and Albania at the end of the Balkan Wars. In 1912 the London Ambassador's Conference allotted the Chameria region to Greece, so today only seven Cham villages, centred on the village of Konispol, are in Albania itself. There were three distinct phases of emigration of the Cham population from northern Greece. The first occurred during the Balkan Wars 1912-1914, the second following the signing of the Turkish-Greek Convention at Lausanne in January 1923, and the third occurred at the end of the Second World War, in the period from June 1944 to March 1945, during which an estimated 5,000 men, women and children were killed. The rest of Chameria's Albanian Muslim population fled over the border to Albania where they have lived in exile ever since. (2)

The Chams are demanding the recognition of about 4,000 Chams who disappeared as a result of those conflicts, and the property rights of about 150,000 others. (3) The Chams are also building charges against Greece at the international courts, arguing that they were stripped of around US$340m-worth of properties which are worth roughly US$2.5bn at current market prices. The Greeks, however, see the Cham question as a "non existent issue". (4)

The forced movement of the entire Albanian Muslim population from Greece has left a lingering sense of injustice amongst Albanians in general. This has contributed in part to poor bilateral relations between Albania and Greece. The controversial Cham issue has lain dormant in recent years and none of the post-war Albanian governments, whether communist, democratic or socialist, have ventured to try to make it a key issue in relations with Greece.

Historical Background

The name 'Chameria' comes from the ancient Illyrian name for the Tsamis River, which traversed the territory of the ancient Illyrian tribe of Thesprotes. Chameria was part of the Roman Empire before being conquered by the Byzantines, and in the thirteenth century it became part of the Epirus despotate. In the second half of the fourteenth century it was included in the Albanian despotate of Arta. After the Ottoman invasion in the 15th century it was firstly in the sanjak (municipality) of Delvina, then in that of Janina. In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, the mostly Albanian population of northern Chameria - from Konispol to the Gliqi river - was forcibly converted to Islam, whilst those living south of the Gliqi down to Preveza Bay remained Orthodox Christians.
After the defeat of the Ottoman forces during the Balkan Wars (1912-1913), the future of Albanian-inhabited areas was discussed at the hastily convened Conference of Ambassadors held in London in December 1912-January 1913, where it was agreed in principle to support the establishment of Albania as a new political entity.

Greece had emerged from the Balkan Wars with a heightened sense of achievement, and a determination to try to secure southern Albania for Greece. The emphasis was not on territory that was ethnically strictly Greek, but rather on lands in which Hellenic civilisation was believed to be predominant. (8) In October 1913 the Epirote insurrection broke out, as Greek volunteers raided southern Albania, terrorising its inhabitants by burning their villages. The Greek objective was to set up an autonomous Vorio Epirus (Northern Epirus), in an attempt to sabotage the international discussions then being held in Florence on the future status of the region. Finally in December 1913, the Powers agreed on the terms of the Protocol of Florence, whereby, in return for Serbia's retreat from Albanian territory, Austria reluctantly agreed that the Albanian districts in what is now Kosovo and Macedonia should be formerly ceded to Serbia, whilst Greece received the large southern region of Chameria. The Albanian state was thus reduced to the central regions together with the town of Shkodër and its surrounding territory.

Following the establishment of the Florence Line, some Greek troops began to withdraw from Chameria. Greek terrorist bands, however, remained as active as ever. As the majority of Chams were Muslim, they were treated with the same contempt as ethnic Turks living in Greece. On 23 February 1913, 72 people were killed in the village of Proi i Selanit near Paramithia. This marked the beginning of attacks on Albanian Muslim civilian targets, which were designed to instil fear into the population and thus prompt them to leave their homes. Throughout the next decade, the property of Albanian Muslims was systematically looted and many young men were deported to internal exile on the Aegean islands. Thousands of hectares of Cham-owned land were expropriated without compensation, their harvests were requisitioned, and they were prohibited from sowing their corn, or from selling or letting their property to forestall its expropriation. It was thus rendered impossible for many families to remain in Greece - forcing them to flee northwards to Albanian in search of land. (9) In an effort to settle the Cham issue, the Athens government had tried to gain Ankara's approval for encouraging some Chams to migrate to Turkey, in the hope that the rest would follow. Initially Ankara had been unwilling to allow the settlement of Albanian Muslims on Turkish soil, but following intense diplomatic efforts by Athens, the Turkish government agreed to allow the settlement of some 5,000 Chams.

Meanwhile, in 1923, the position regarding the 20,000 or so Muslim Albanians still remaining in northern Greece was being hotly debated at a special session of the Council of the League of Nations. The convention that made possible the exchange of Greek and Turkish populations had been signed at the Lausanne Conference on 30 January 1923. The Albanian government had then insisted, via telegrams and delegations to the League, that the Greek authorities were forcing the Chams to leave their homes and move to Turkey, and that their lands were being settled by Greek immigrants from Asia Minor. The Greeks countered these accusations by arguing that the term 'Albanian' could only be applied to those who were born in Albania, thereby excluding from consideration the Greek-born Albanian Muslims, who were equated with Turks. The League responded to the Albanian allegations by establishing a Mixed Commission to examine the question in detail.

In March 1924, the Commission decided that Greek subjects who were Muslims and of Albanian origin, and more specifically those residing in Epirus, had to be excluded from the compulsory exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey. (10) For the Albanian Chams, however, the issue centred around their claims to belong to the Albanian nation. The Council of the League discussed this matter during its thirtieth session (29 August-3 October): the Albanian position maintained that the Greek authorities were encouraging the 'Albanians of Epirus' to consider mass migration by calling them 'Greeks of Turkish origin' and convincing them to adopt the second identity in their public pronouncements. The Council finally decided to appoint neutral members of the Mixed Commission as its 'mandatories' charged with the responsibility of protecting the 'Muslim minority of Albanian origin' residing in Greece. (11) Meanwhile, the Athens government settled Greek immigrants from Asia Minor in Chameria in order to populate it with Orthodox Christians, and to put further pressure on the remaining Albanian Muslims to emigrate. Throughout the 1920s entire villages, such as Petrovica and Shëndellinja were emptied of their Albanian inhabitants. Whole families left for Albania, Turkey and America.

In March 1926, the Greek government declared that the process of population exchange was over and that the Chams would henceforth have the same rights as those enjoyed by other Greek citizens, However, these "rights" remained highly selective. No Albanian-language schools were permitted and the speaking of Albanian was discouraged outside the home. The signing of the Italian-Albanian pact in November 1926 caused some anxiety in Athens and focused Greek attention on the still unresolved question of the Chams, which was leading to increased tensions between Greece and Albania. The Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs had serious reservations about the pact because it was feared that the interests of the Albanians for their "brothers" in Epirus now had the backing of an important power, whose territorial ambitions in the Balkans could benefit from the existence of the Cham minority which favoured Italy and was hostile to the Greek state. Italy could also use the Chams as a counterweight to Greek ambitions in southern Albania.

Albanian charges directed against Greece concerning the Muslims of Chameria gradually increased and reached their climax during the first half of 1928. In March, the Albanian Foreign Ministry delivered a memorandum to the Greek chargé d'affaires in Tirana, which highlighted Tirana's concern over the 'austere measures' exercised by the local authorities against the Chams, and expressed a formal protest that the Greek government did not recognise them as a 'national minority'.

The Greek side argued that 'the Albanian government had no right to get involved in the domestic affairs of another country: the Chams were Greek citizens and the projection of Albania as a protector state constituted disregard of the basic elements of Greek sovereign rights.' (12) With the coming to power of the Ioannis Metaxas fascist government in 1936, the situation of the Albanian population of Chameria became even more difficult. The colonisation of the area by Greeks intensified, confiscation of Cham property was stepped up and the names of places inhabited by Albanians were replaced by Greek place names. (13) In the meantime, the League of Nations continued to note the Albanian protests over the treatment of the Chams, but by then more important issues were now emerging concerning other minorities in Europe.

The Second World War
In an attempt to establish an ethnically pure border region, the Chams were evicted from northern Greece by guerrilla forces under the command of General Napoleon Zervas acting under the instructions of allied officers. In the light of recent research, wartime documents show that Greek actions against the Chams were supported and authorised by the British. These actions resulted in around 35,000 Chams fleeing to Albania and others to Turkey. Colonel Chris Woodhouse, head of the British Military Mission in Greece reported that: "Encouraged by the Allied Mission I headed, Zervas drove the Chams out of their homes in 1944. The majority fled to find shelter in Albania. Their eviction from Greece was carried out with large-scale bloodshed. Zervas's work was followed in March 1945 with a large-scale massacre of the Filiates Chams that cannot be excused. The result was the eviction of the undesirable Albanian population from their land." (15)

The most infamous massacre of Albanian Muslims by Greek irregulars occurred on 27 June 1944 in the district of Paramithia, when forces of General Zervas's National Republican Greek League (EDES) entered the town and killed approximately 600 Albanian Muslims, men women and children - many having been raped and tortured before death. According to eyewitness accounts, the following day, another EDES battalion marched into Parga where 52 more Albanians were killed. On 23 September 1944, the town of Spatar was looted and 157 people died. Young women and girls were raped and those men who were still alive were rounded up and deported to the Aegean islands. (16) According to statistics provided by the Chameria Association in Tirana, in total 2,771 Albanian civilians were killed during the1944-1945 attacks on their villages. The breakdown is as follows: in Filiates and suburbs 1,286, in Igoumenitsa and suburbs 192, in Paramithia and suburbs 673 and Parga 620. Sixty-eight villages with 5,800 houses were looted and then burnt. A detailed list of material losses includes 110,000 sheep, 2,400 cattle, 21,000 quintals of wheat and 80,000 quintals of edible oil, amounting to 11,000,000 kilograms of grain and 3,000,000 kilograms of edible oil. (17)

As a result of these assaults, an estimated 28,000 Chams fled to Albania where they settled on the outskirts of Vlora, Durres and Tirana.
International observers noted the brutality of the Cham evictions. Joseph Jacobs, Head of the US Mission in Albania (1945-1946) wrote: "In March 1945 units of Zervas's dissolved forces carried out a massacre of Chams in the Filiates area, and practically cleared the district of the Albanian minority. According to all the information I have been able to gather on the Cham issue, in the fall of 1944 and during the first months of 1945, the authorities in north-western Greece perpetrated savage brutality by evicting some 25,000 Chams - residents of Chameria - from their homes. They were chased across the border after having been robbed of their land and property. Hundreds of male Chams from the ages of 15 to 70 were interned on the islands of the Aegean Sea. In total 102 mosques were burnt down." (18) The Greek authorities then approved a law sanctioning the expropriation of Cham property, citing the collaboration of their community with the occupying Axis forces as a main reason for the decision.

For those Chams of the Orthodox faith who remained in Greece after 1945, their Albanian identity was suppressed as a deeply repressive policy of assimilation ensued and, as before World War II, the Albanian language was not allowed to be spoken in public, nor taught in the schools. The demographic structure of northwest Greece was altered by the introduction of settlers from other parts of Greece. Vlachs in particular were encouraged to settle in abandoned Cham villages without the legal right of ownership. (19) Greece wanted the demographic structure of the province changed because it did not trust the rest of the Albanian population who remained there, even though they were of the Christian Orthodox faith. As the speaking of Albanian was prohibited in public, the assimilation of Orthodox Albanians gathered momentum and they have struggled ever since to maintain their identity. (20)
Today one can see numerous ruined Cham settlements scattered throughout north western Greece, especially in the region between Paramithia and Filiates. An estimated 40,000 Christian Orthodox Albanians still live in the Threspotia region. Although the majority are of original Cham decent, a significant minority migrated to the region after the collapse of communism in Albania in 1991. The process of assimilation is only gradual and as yet does not threaten their Albanian identity. Although their children go to Greek schools and Greek is spoken everywhere outside the home, inside the houses Albanian is spoken by all family members, and events in Albania are keenly followed. One traveller in the late 1970s noted that: "There are still many Greek Orthodox villagers in Threspotia who speak Albanian among themselves. They are scattered north from Paramithia to the Kalamas River and beyond, and westward to the Margariti Plain. Some of the older people can only speak Albanian, nor is the language dying out. As more and more couples in early married life travel away to Athens or Germany for work, their children remain at home and are brought up by their Albania-speaking grandparents". (33)


Source:
[reprint of: Miranda Vickers: The Cham Issue: Albanian National and Property Claims in Greece. ISBN 1-903584-76-0 (Conflict Studies Research Centre, Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, Surrey 2002), reprint in: Südosteuropa, Zeitschrift für Gegenwartsforschung, Munich, 2002, 51, 4-6, p. 228-249.]

This is the story, in few words. An historically Albanian land, inhabitated since antiquity from Albanians, invaded by Greece after that your masters, like thieves, secretly decided to give this Albanian land to your country. The muslim Chams in 40 years were killed and expelled, meanwhile the Orthodox Albanians were forcibly assimilated in Greeks. So don`t make again stupid and trolling questions. OK?


Vlachs+Arvanites : Both groups self-identify as Greeks. Is there any request by them ( and their associations) that they should be a minority?

Report (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?190201-Minority-Rights-in-Greece-the-Country-s-Treatment-of-Minorities&p=4012106&highlight=Tsitsipis#post4012106)

-

THE ARVANITES

General data on the language

Likewise, Arvanitika has never been included in the educational curricula of the modern Greek state. On the contrary, its use has been strongly discouraged at schools (and in the army) through physical punishment, humiliation, or, in recent years, simple incitation of the Arvanitika users (Williams, 1992:86; Trudgill, 1983:130-1). Such attitudes have led many Arvanite (as well as Vlach, and Macedonian) parents to discourage their children from learning their mother tongue so as to avoid similar discrimination and suffering (Trudgill, 1983:130).


Report (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?190201-Minority-Rights-in-Greece-the-Country-s-Treatment-of-Minorities&p=4012107&highlight=Tsitsipis#post4012107)

-

THE VLACHS

General data on the language

All Vlach speakers are fluent in Greek; in fact, the use of Vlach is being subordinated to the use of Greek especially among the younger generations. The reasons have already been mentioned above: the monolingual policy of the Greek state along with the resulting self-deprecation of the language; modernization; influence of education; easier access to the major cities and to the electronic media where only Greek is used: so, the decrease of the isolation of the Vlach communities has severely affected language use. In fact, sometimes, young people discourage their parents from speaking the language (especially in public).


REPORT ON THE ALBANIANS OF GREECE
by the Commission of the European Community

A group of researchers of the European Community visited Greece from the 4th to the 10th of October 1987 to study the existence of the Albanian element and the preservation of its ethnicity and language.
The trip was organized by the “European Bureau” to study the lesser-used languages, observed by the Commission of the European Community.


Composition of the Group:

Antonio Belushi Italy
Ricardo Alvares Spain
E. Angel France
Kolom Anget Spain
Havier Boski Spain
Onom Falkona Holland
Volfgang Jeniges Belgium
Robert Marti France
Stefan Moal France
Kol O’Cinseala Ireland
Joseph San Sokasao Spain


Object of the trip:
Research in 300 Albanian communities in Greece.


Aim:

To help European representatives on their visit to get in touch with the Albanian people in Greece, who are currently speaking Albanian, which is not taught in Greek schools.
To assess the reaction of various parties and other institutions to the issue of protection of linguistic minorities existing in Greece, which are not recognized at present even below a minimum criterion as is the case with the Albanians, etc.


Views of the main parties:


The “New Democracy” Party:
We talked with Michael Papakonstantinu, Efstakios Paguhos, Nikola Martis, Joanis Vulfefis and Kaeti Papannastasion. Here are some of their answers:
“There is no problem of Albanian language in Greece. If we put linguistic problems on the table, we would create very great problems for the Greek state. If the Albanian language is spoken, it is spoken only in families. No opinion can be fully expressed on this issue. There has never been room for the Albanians in our problems. Your mission is very delicate. Do not complicate things. Watch out! Minority issues will lead to war in Europe. We can in no way help at these moments. Likewise, we do not want to give the impression of Albanian presence in Greece. This problem does not exist for us.”


The “PASOK” Party:
Questions were addressed to Dr. Jorgos Sklavunas and Manolis Azimakis. Their answers:
“We do not deem it necessary for the Albanian and other minorities to learn their mother tongues because the language they speak is not a language. There are no Albanian territories in Greece. There are only Greek territories where Albanian may also be spoken. He who does not speak our language does not belong to our race and our country.”


The Ministry of Culture:
Having listened to the questions, Doc. Athina Sipirianti said:
“To solve a problem, you have always to set up a commission. We do not have the possibility of dealing with the problem you are raising. Your experience will be necessary for what we shall do in the future. Your visit is a great stimulus to us.”


The Pedagogical Department:
Dr. Trinnidafilotis’ answer was very cold:
“There is no teaching of Albanian. What you are saying is a political rather than a cultural problem. I have nothing else to add.”


The Commission of the Independent Magazine Anti:
Answers:
“Borders between states are not fair. This interest in minorities in Greece can hide interests of domination by other states. Linguistic minorities, namely, the Albanian minority, have no right whatsoever. In Greece, there are only Greeks.”

This is the story even here. For those Arvanites who have "strange" ideas about their Albanian origine, the greek state during his almost 200 years of existence has reserved an specific tratement. Two examples, one in XIX century and another in XX century:
Anastas Kullurioti

Anastas Kullurioti (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastas_Kullurioti) or Anastasios Koulouriotis (Greek: Αναστάσιος Κουλουριώτης; 1822–1887[1]) was an Arvanite[2] and Albanian nationalist figure, publisher and writer in Greece.
Born in Salamis[a], Ottoman Greece, he spent some of his early years there and later moved to Athens, where he settled in the Plaka district, being noted at the time as the "Albanian quarter" of the city.[3][4][5][6][7] Still a young man, he emigrated to America and made his fortune, although little is known about that period of his life.

Upon his return to Greece, along with Panayotis Koupitoris, he founded the weekly Η φωνή της Αλβανίας (English: The Voice of Albania), which lasted from September 1879 to mid-1880.[8][9] Among the goals of his nationalist activities were the founding of an Albanian political party in Greece, the opening of Albanian-language schools and the liberation of Albania from the Turkish yoke.[10] In early 1880s, he traveled south Albania to win support for the nationalist cause, which inevitably brought him into conflict with both Turkish and Greek authorities.[10][11] He got arrested in Gjirokastër with the request of the Greek consul and extradited to Corfu. He was imprisoned in Greece for some time, and he is said to have died poisoned in prison in Athens at the beginning of 1887.[2][10][12][13]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/%CE%97_%CF%86%CF%89%CE%BD%CE%AE_%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82 _%CE%91%CE%BB%CE%B2%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%AF%CE%B1%CF%82_ %28Voice_of_Albania%29_newspaper_front_page.jpg
Works
Abavetar Arvëror, (English: Albanian Primer Athens, 1882);
Reader Klumësht për foshnja (English: Milk for Babies Athens, 1882).

Notes and references
Notes
a. ^ According to Elsie and Faensen he was born in Plaka district[1][10]


Also about Kullurioti and other things, read this (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?86651-Arvanites-are-they-Greeks-or-Albanians&p=4035985&viewfull=1#post4035985).

The second name is Aristidh Kola:
Kollias died in 2000 because of leukemia.[2] According to journalist Ilir Malindi, expert in the Albania-Greece relations Kollias was poisoned by Greece's secret services,[4] but, in 2008, history professor Arben Llalla rejected this hypothesis and asserted that it could be the Serbian secret services that may be responsible for Kollias' death. According to Llalla, this was the reaction of Serbia against the pro-Kosovo activism that Kollias displayed in the 1990s.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristeidis_Kollias)

It`s high possible that Kola was killed by both services of servia and Greece.

This was and is the situation of the minorities in your country, Greece, a country member of European Union but with standarts about minorities that are not comparable even with the standarts of Comunist Albania during the Enver Hoxha regime.

[Dibran]

a simple google search would make you realize that 30% E.E is not an outlying result for the balkans.Look at your country's average on this chart ffs!

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/eu-stats-pt24.png

These statistics are quite early/old. With more recent additions, the Average Albanian is scoring between 5-15 East Europe. Me(15 percent), My Mother(20). I imagine my father is less, but I haven't tested him. Also The autosomal for AncestryDNA does NOT work in the way you would think. It does not determine your percentage of ancestry based on actual autosomal, but based on match consistency. Which can change radically with influx of new sample. So, when it says 15 percent for instance, its because 15 percent of your matches either have partial or full ancestry from said regions. So if 10000 people all from Greece took the test and you matched 1000 of them, your Greece/Albania/Turkey figure would increase. Also(unless I am mistaken) the "n=" is the number of the sample size. If anyone is making broad claims off of Albania(4 samples) and Greece(6) off of this chart, then it is a little counter productive. Not even 100 samples are entirely conclusive of a people. Let alone less than 10.