Turkey: Regional averages of East Eurasian / Mongoloid DNA.

[ButlerKing]

The table below contains regional averages (Dodecad K12b)

https://i.hizliresim.com/GyqEE7.png

[Raizen]

north european ancestry to some extent = scythians

[Marmara]

East Black Sea Turks are mostly assimilated Caucasians, that is why they score high Caucasian and almost no East Asian. Eastern Turks seem to be more mixed, logical.

[Marmara]

north european ancestry to some extent = scythians

I think that would be Gedrosian. I'm not sure how much were Scythians North European.

[Raizen]

I think that would be Gedrosian. I'm not sure how much were Scythians North European.

They were a tad but east asian input pushed them away in plots, but sarmatians were less east asian and they were as northern as russians (map that i got from a member)
https://media.nature.com/lw926/nature-assets/ncomms/2017/170303/ncomms14615/images/ncomms14615-f6.jpg

[Marmara]

They were a tad but east asian input pushed them away in plots, but sarmatians were less east asian and they were as northern as russians (map that i got from a member)
https://media.nature.com/lw926/nature-assets/ncomms/2017/170303/ncomms14615/images/ncomms14615-f6.jpg

Scythian - Turkic relation is a real mistery. Mongol Conquest blended everything together and added extra Mongoloid so we can't know but it seems "some" Turkic peoples were direct descendants of Scythians, while others were either full or partially Mongoloid (mixed with Scythian)

[Hudayar]

I thought Western Turks were actually Ancient Greeks descended from Thales, Socrates.

Jokes aside here are the mongoloid averages of the regions

12.17
13.87
9.3
10.5
8.68
12.05
4.83
0.88

Turk-South could be improved. I don't think Antep-Kilis are south at all. They're southeast. And no one can convince me! :D :D :D

[ButlerKing]

East Black Sea Turks are mostly assimilated Caucasians, that is why they score high Caucasian and almost no East Asian. Eastern Turks seem to be more mixed, logical.

Eastern Turkey = Kurdish people. Perhaps Eastern Turks have Kurdish admixture.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KCiXuLgcW6w/VQ1J0GQXNdI/AAAAAAAABYM/cpRmyaFT7qg/s1600/Kurdistan%2BHypocristan%2BTurkey%2Badministration% 2Bmap2.jpg
http://www.iranreview.org/file/cms/files/kurdistan1.gif

[ButlerKing]

I thought Western Turks were actually Ancient Greeks descended from Thales, Socrates.

Jokes aside here are the mongoloid averages of the regions

12.17
13.87
9.3
10.5
8.68
12.05
4.83
0.88

Turk-South could be improved. I don't think Antep-Kilis are south at all. They're southeast. And no one can convince me! :D :D :D

Perhaps there was a relocation of a massive number of Turkish immigrants.

[ButlerKing]

Scythian - Turkic relation is a real mistery. Mongol Conquest blended everything together and added extra Mongoloid so we can't know but it seems "some" Turkic peoples were direct descendants of Scythians, while others were either full or partially Mongoloid (mixed with Scythian)

Wikipedia make scythians sounds like a bunch of hybrid. I wonder if they looked more like western Uralic rather than European or Tajiks Pamiri.

" Ancient genome-wide analysis on samples from the southern Ural region, East Kazakhstan and Tuva, shows that Iron Age Scythians were a mix of Yamnaya people from the Russian Steppe and East Asian populations, similar to the Han and the Nganasan (Samoyedic people from northern Siberia). "

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I think that would be Gedrosian. I'm not sure how much were Scythians North European.

In which region of Turkey actually Turks saved their original Eurasian phenotype?

[Marmara]

Eastern Turkey = Kurdish people. Perhaps Eastern Turks have Kurdish admixture.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KCiXuLgcW6w/VQ1J0GQXNdI/AAAAAAAABYM/cpRmyaFT7qg/s1600/Kurdistan%2BHypocristan%2BTurkey%2Badministration% 2Bmap2.jpg
http://www.iranreview.org/file/cms/files/kurdistan1.gif

Eastern provinces are interesting because any look can occour from there. I think they aren't mixed, instead, it's a heteregenous place, besides, Alevis live in East who haven't mixed with Sunni Turks or Kurds in history and they should be examined (Alevis can be both Turkish or Kurdish ethnically, but they might have different admixture than Turks and Kurds)

By East I'm talking about where Turks live alongside Kurds, which means Central East like Sivas, and not East like Van where only Kurds live

[Hudayar]

Perhaps there was a relocation of a massive number of Turkish immigrants.

Yes relocation from Turkmenistan to Western Anatolia. but some people, at least not on this forum, still think Western Turks are Greeks and Eastern Turks are Mongolians mixed with Arabs and this annoys me

[Hudayar]

In which region of Turkey actually Turks saved their original Eurasian phenotype?

I don't think the Turks had only one phenotype. But you can find turanid phenotype in every city of Turkey. Mostly i think in Giresun.

[Massagetae]

In which region of Turkey actually Turks saved their original Eurasian phenotype?

I would say it's mostly gone. Self Genocide.

Last time I went to vote I was in shock. I literally felt I was voting for an election in Iraq. None of my parents friends looked like that......

[Marmara]

In which region of Turkey actually Turks saved their original Eurasian phenotype?

Turks have more or less similar Mongoloid in every province except East. Other than that, Nomadic Turks (Yörüks and Turcomans) are the most Eurasian/Mongoloid.

[Marmara]

Yes relocation from Turkmenistan to Western Anatolia. but some people, at least not on this forum, still think Western Turks are Greeks and Eastern Turks are Mongolians mixed with Arabs and this annoys me

Those people are the ones who also think Western Turks are the whitest Turks.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

How much mongoloid are European Turks?

[Marmara]

How much mongoloid are European Turks?

Define "European". Do you mean Turkish diaspora in Europe?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Define "European". Do you mean Turkish diaspora in Europe?

Turks who live in European part of Turkey.

[Marmara]

I would say it's mostly gone. Self Genocide.

Last time I went to vote I was in shock. I literally felt I was voting for an election in Iraq. None of my parents friends looked like that......

Ordinary Turks probably don't vote there (Canada i assume) those are the Cancer who vote to make our lives hell here while they live abroad.

[Marmara]

Turks who live in European part of Turkey.

Ok so you mean Thracians (that's how they're called here) they probably have similar Mongoloid but they have additional North European that's how i saw.

[Massagetae]

Ordinary Turks probably don't vote there (Canada i assume) those are the Cancer who vote to make our lives hell here while they live abroad.

Some of them must have been Iraqi refugees who then claimed asylum in Canada. I felt out of place, it caused me to join apricity to see wtf was going on, now I Identify as Finnish. :)

[Marmara]

Some of them must have been Iraqi refugees who then claimed asylum in Canada. I felt out of place, it caused me to join apricity to see wtf was going on, now I Identify as Finnish. :)

Any ordinary Turk would feel the same.

[Thracian]

How much mongoloid are European Turks?

Mine is,

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Med 25.85
2 North_European 25.82
3 Caucasus 23.86
4 Gedrosia 13.26
5 Southwest_Asian 9.1
6 Siberian 1.59
7 South_Asian 0.53

But I saw higher scores (up to 4.5) in different calcs. Generally, I see 2%.

[Sora]

The most Eurasian Turks are South Western Turks and Black Sea Turks from Giresun and Ordu. It's a truth.

[Cristiano viejo]

I thought Turks had more Siberian.

[Grab the Gauge]

Turks are no more "Mongoloid" than Swedes. They're about as "Mongoloid" as Orkney islanders.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qCEiV81NI0c/UDJP0Y-C_LI/AAAAAAAAFjs/WJLXbhylaCM/s1240/f4_Sardinian_X_Han_San.png

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/08/4-population-test-and-east-eurasian.html

[Grab the Gauge]

Scythian - Turkic relation is a real mistery. Mongol Conquest blended everything together and added extra Mongoloid so we can't know but it seems "some" Turkic peoples were direct descendants of Scythians, while others were either full or partially Mongoloid (mixed with Scythian)

Dude, the Mongol conquests had nothing to do with anything. These people had "Mongoloid" admixture 1700 years before the Mongols existed.

Why is everybody trying to connect East Eurasian adixture to the Mongols?

[Pennywise]

Turks are no more "Mongoloid" than Swedes. They're about as "Mongoloid" as Orkney islanders.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qCEiV81NI0c/UDJP0Y-C_LI/AAAAAAAAFjs/WJLXbhylaCM/s1240/f4_Sardinian_X_Han_San.png

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/08/4-population-test-and-east-eurasian.html


Turkish Dodecad samples are train wreck. Here is the current East Eurasian admixture map of fully ethnic Turks in Turkey based on 125 samples:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HKjsPDMkfWY/Wh7EfeBL8GI/AAAAAAAAANM/Vo6HpnwN7ow8MCYBh9WZdLokDDsSZrzxgCLcBGAs/s1600/East_Eurasian.png

https://oghuzturksdna.blogspot.com.tr/2017/12/autosomal-admixture-maps-of-turkey.html

[Sora]

Turks are no more "Mongoloid" than Swedes. They're about as "Mongoloid" as Orkney islanders.



http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/08...-eurasian.html

What do you mean when you're saying this?

Also what do you think about it?
http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/TCGiresun/media/asian_zpsa1662785.jpg.html

[Dorian]

I don't think the Turks had only one phenotype. But you can find turanid phenotype in every city of Turkey. Mostly i think in Giresun.

Do you guys have any fb page with club photos?like the italian/greek etc posted?

[Hadouken]

Turkish Dodecad samples are train wreck. Here is the current East Eurasian admixture map of fully ethnic Turks in Turkey based on 125 samples:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HKjsPDMkfWY/Wh7EfeBL8GI/AAAAAAAAANM/Vo6HpnwN7ow8MCYBh9WZdLokDDsSZrzxgCLcBGAs/s1600/East_Eurasian.png

https://oghuzturksdna.blogspot.com.tr/2017/12/autosomal-admixture-maps-of-turkey.html

I am Tunceli Kurd and on this calculator I score as much mongoloid as Elazig and Batman Turks (I score 2.85) . I would have guessed that those turks are mixed with kurdish but I think I know who made that map and I trust him. I score more mongoloid on other calculators which means that the mongoloid of some of the other people in this map will also be higher on other calcs . which is pretty impressive

I am a little surprised about Sakarya . wouldnt have thought they have more than Balıkesir

[Turkminator]

The map is scientific nonsense. The strongest Eurasian component can be found in the Turkish cities Eskisehir and Kütahya. This map has only a handful of sources to allow a tendency.

[ButlerKing]

Dude, the Mongol conquests had nothing to do with anything. These people had "Mongoloid" admixture 1700 years before the Mongols existed.

Why is everybody trying to connect East Eurasian adixture to the Mongols?

Because they raped the shit out of Central Asians people !!! Central Asia before Mongol invasion in 13th century were still primary Caucasoid and predominant Caucasoid now today everyone is primary predominant Mongoloid and Mongoloid-Caucasoid mixed to every degree that's why the Central Asians look like a bunch of Korean/Japanese/Vietnamese and half Asians.

There was also Mongoloid and Mongoloid-Europoid in Central Asia before Mongol invasion but they always been a minority unlike after the 13th century.

Central Asia used to be inhabited by Iranian Caucasoid like Scythians, Sogdians, Pamirs, Bactrians, Andronovo people until the massive genocide and rape of Iranian women by Mongolians army. Now everyone of these groups are extinct except for the Pamiris and Tajik people

( So now you understand ? the cruelest people to treat your acclaimed cousins were from the East... not from the middle east or South Asia or South east. Your racism should be directed at the ones who caused you most pain not the ones with isolated individual cases today )

Original people of Kazakhstan, Indo-European speaker. These were all racially people of Caucasoid and predominant Caucasoid.

http://i43.tinypic.com/sltx8l.jpg

Now Kazakhs today are predominant Mongoloid

http://www.eaglefalconer.com/images/PG_MO_G_Soltakhan-father-son.jpg
http://kazakhnomad.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/academic-listening-class.jpg


Original Kyrgyz from Siberia, union of only Turkic, Uralic, Indo-European.
ancient inhabitants of people from Kyrgyzstan were Caucasoid and half caucasoid

http://www.centralasia-biz.com/cabiz/kirgizstan/turizm/hystory/ancientman_5.jpg
http://www.centralasia-biz.com/cabiz/kirgizstan/turizm/hystory/ancientman_1.jpg

Now Kyrgyz today all predominant Mongoloid

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/12/8/1228738719993/Gallery-Eid-al-Adha-Kyrgy-005.jpg
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/07/23/world/24kyrgyz2_600.jpg


Original Kypchaks were Caucasoid with substantial Mongoloid

http://s2.forumimage.ru/uploads/20091029/125682172870747162.jpg



However the Kypchaks known as Nogais are mixture of Kypchak and Mongol

They live in Russia North Caucasus and always claim to be descendants of Golden Horde. They are all predominant Mongoloid.

http://oi44.tinypic.com/dw3rit.jpg



The original people of Northern and Central Afghanistan were like Kushans a Indo-European people.

http://www.grifterrec.com/coins/kushan/i_kushan3.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_li0vcb8Lz61qdvvdxo1_500.jpg

The Hazara are descendants of Mongol armies and Tajik or Balochi women
They claim to be descendants of Mongol and Genghis Khan although some Hazara prefer to call themsels the original inhabitants known as Kushans

http://sadani.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/hazara2.jpg
http://www.fekrat.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/hazara-children-in-behsud.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvn4egi1by1qlsr3bo1_1280.jpg


Original people of Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan

http://i45.tinypic.com/331j794.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/el9ybs.jpg


Many of the Uzbeks and Turkmen retained features of original Central Asians

Uzbeks were effected by both Turkic and Mongol

http://www3.utsidan.se/corax-e/Jeff's%20Photos/uzbekschoolchildren.jpg


But Turkmen were already effected by original gokturks who were mixed Mongoloid. DNA does not shows Turkmen they were effected by Mongolians at all but by Siberian DNA. Even Turk have some Siberian DNA today.

http://i48.tinypic.com/kbpuf5.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/2cz4nwz.jpg

[Pennywise]

I am Tunceli Kurd and on this calculator I score as much mongoloid as Elazig and Batman Turks (I score 2.85) . I would have guessed that those turks are mixed with kurdish but I think I know who made that map and I trust him. I score more mongoloid on other calculators which means that the mongoloid of some of the other people in this map will also be higher on other calcs . which is pretty impressive

I am a little surprised about Sakarya . wouldnt have thought they have more than Balıkesir

East Eurasian admixture varies between regions and amongst the Eastern Anatolian Turks, it is lower than the rest of the region. Yes some Kurds seem to have some East Eurasian admix too, I didn't get what exactly your point is.

In the same blog they also shared each cities' Gedmatch averages and they use those results when making those maps:

https://turkishdna.blogspot.com.tr/2017/11/turkiye-otozomal-il-ortalamalar.html

Can't see any reason to not to "trust" it. Their sources are plain obvious.

[Pennywise]

The map is scientific nonsense. The strongest Eurasian component can be found in the Turkish cities Eskisehir and Kütahya. This map has only a handful of sources to allow a tendency.

No shit? In which "scientific" study says so?

[ButlerKing]

Mongol invasion not only changed Central Asia but even racially changed parts of Afghanistan and North Caucasus where there is the Hazara and Nogais.

[Bornoz]

East Black Sea Turks are mostly assimilated Caucasians, that is why they score high Caucasian and almost no East Asian. Eastern Turks seem to be more mixed, logical.

According to that logic, Turks from all regions of Turkey and Balkans are f(x)=Turk (value set= all nations that we are genetically close). I mean how much East Asian can you have? 7-8 max?
I also don't think that the term of ''Eastern Turks'' is not clear cause it is a fact that 90% of East population is Kurd. I am saying the rate randomly of course but you know what I am talking about.

Türk dendiğinde insanın aklına batılı gelir, Kürt geldiğinde doğulu gelir aga. Çok net. Siz bayağı bir azınlıksınız oralarda.

[Hadouken]

East Eurasian admixture varies between regions and amongst the Eastern Anatolian Turks, it is lower than the rest of the region. Yes some Kurds seem to have some East Eurasian admix too, I didn't get what exactly your point is.

In the same blog they also shared each cities' Gedmatch averages and they use those results when making those maps:

https://turkishdna.blogspot.com.tr/2017/11/turkiye-otozomal-il-ortalamalar.html

Can't see any reason to not to "trust" it. Their sources are plain obvious.

I just meant that by looking at the numbers one could assume that the eastern turks are mixed but this can not be the case since I think I know who is the maker of the map and he is careful who he includes

so I am basically saying the same as you :D

[Pennywise]

I just meant that by looking at the numbers one could assume that the eastern turks are mixed but this can not be the case since I think I know who is the maker of the map and he is careful who he includes

so I am basically saying the same as you :D

That's right, all the samples were picked very carefully, I know that personally. Just Central Asian genetic heritage seem to be more "diluted" among them compared to the other regions.

[Böri]

East Black Sea Turks are mostly assimilated Caucasians, that is why they score high Caucasian and almost no East Asian. Eastern Turks seem to be more mixed, logical.

No they aren't Caucasian.
Laz people are the only Caucasians in NE Turkey and they are also only ones who identify as such. Even them, Laz people are genetically closer to Armenians or Assyrians than to Chechens, that said.

[Turkminator]

We also have Pontic Greeks from Trabzon-Caykara, like this Böri Boy. These Rums should not be degraded as Caucasians.

[Hadouken]

No they aren't Caucasian.
Laz people are the only Caucasians in NE Turkey and they are also only ones who identify as such. Even them, Laz people are genetically closer to Armenians or Assyrians than to Chechens, that said.

you forgot circassians . also some georgians

[Böri]

says Kurdo Nordic Demhatoid...

Pontic Greeks get Armenians #1.
I get Western Turks (Aydın) #1. Actually I get Turkmens, Azerbaijanis, Kumiks, Balkars, Nogays and... even non-Turkic Ossetians (Alans are obviously 6-8% EE) before Armenians.

[Böri]

you forgot circassians . also some georgians

Laz are genetically in between Georgians and Armenians I guess.
But İ think they draw closer to Assyrians than to Chechens or Lezgins.

[Turkminator]

Sometimes you just have to accept the truth, no matter how painful it is.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEA9cQzCS1o

[Hadouken]

Laz are genetically in between Georgians and Armenians I guess.
But İ think they draw closer to Assyrians than to Chechens or Lezgins.

thats not what I meant

you said that laz are the only caucasus ethnicity in turkey . but there are also circassians and some georgians

[Böri]

thats not what I meant

you said that laz are the only caucasus ethnicity in turkey . but there are also circassians and some georgians

I was talking about coastal far NE Turkey.

[ButlerKing]

That's right, all the samples were picked very carefully, I know that personally. Just Central Asian genetic heritage seem to be more "diluted" among them compared to the other regions.

And why is Central Asian heritage more diluted ?

few possibilities

1. Eastern Turks have Kurdish admixture.
2. Some Kurdish identified as Turk


Maybe he picked samples who have ancestral legacy of Turkish-Kurds who identified as pure Turkish.

[Hadouken]

I was talking about coastal far NE Turkey.

oh my bad then

but there are also some georgians there

[Pennywise]

And why is Central Asian heritage more diluted ?

few possibilities

1. Eastern Turks have Kurdish admixture.
2. Some Kurdish identified as Turk

All Turks have native admixture, just some are more mixed than others. Like the ones in Eastern Anatolia.

Second option is not possible in this case.

[ButlerKing]

All Turks have native admixture, just some are more mixed than others. Like the ones in Eastern Anatolia.

Second option is not possible in this case.


Why isn't the second option possible when there is even entire wikipedia page dedicated to it?

Second option was basically Turkification which existed in history of Turkisg and Turkic since their existence.

" Turkification, or Turkicisation (Turkish: Türkleştirme),

is a cultural shift whereby populations or states adopted a historical Turkic culture, such as in the Ottoman Empire. As the Turkic states developed and grew, there were many instances of this cultural shift, both voluntary and involuntary.

Diverse people were effected by Turkification including Anatolian, Balkan, Caucasian and Middle Eastern peoples from different ethnic origins, such as Albanians, Arabs, Armenians, Assyrians, Circassians, Georgians, Greeks, Jews, Romani, Slavs, Iranic peoples such as Kurds, as well as Lazs from all the regions of the Ottoman Empire and Iran. "


Iranic peoples such as Kurds, as well as Lazs from all the regions of the Ottoman Empire and Iran.

[Marmara]

All Turks have native admixture, just some are more mixed than others. Like the ones in Eastern Anatolia.

Second option is not possible in this case.

By native do you mean Amerindan?

[Hadouken]

butlerking in most cases people dont forget their roots and know and (especially nowdays) say that they are kurdish , laz etc. . even when they are turkish patriots

and it is also known that many people from the east are or kurdish origin

most people from my kurdish gallery in my signature are also turkish kurds including celebrities

[Pennywise]

Why isn't the second option possible when there is a entire wikipedia page of it ?

Second option is basically Turkification

" Turkification, or Turkicisation (Turkish: Türkleştirme),

is a cultural shift whereby populations or states adopted a historical Turkic culture, such as in the Ottoman Empire. As the Turkic states developed and grew, there were many instances of this cultural shift, both voluntary and involuntary.

Diverse people were effected by Turkification including Anatolian, Balkan, Caucasian and Middle Eastern peoples from different ethnic origins, such as Albanians, Arabs, Armenians, Assyrians, Circassians, Georgians, Greeks, Jews, Romani, Slavs, Iranic peoples such as Kurds, as well as Lazs from all the regions of the Ottoman Empire and Iran. "


Iranic peoples such as Kurds, as well as Lazs from all the regions of the Ottoman Empire and Iran.

Most of the members of those ethnicities who identify as "Turk" also aware of their actual origins. Such examples are not included in the project I posted above.

[Turkminator]

Böri boy, post your K12b results here.

[ButlerKing]

Most of the members of those ethnicities who identify as "Turk" also aware of their actual origins. Such examples are not included in the project I posted above.

They are only aware of their origins of their own and their grandparents. They don't know the what happened before their grandparents or the changes from before 120 years ago.

A lot of people like to say they know their own histories origins like they knew every generation of their ancestors since 2000 years ago but they always get their info from their parents or grandparents....

[Böri]

Böri boy, post your K12b results here.

1 Turks (Behar) 9.95
2 Turkish (Dodecad) 10.62
3 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 15.83
4 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 15.98
5 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 16.37
6 Iranian (Dodecad) 17.43
7 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 17.83
8 Kurd (Dodecad) 17.84
9 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 18.36
10 Iranians (Behar) 20.2
11 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 20.56



You are free to bring yours Demhaminator.

[ButlerKing]

butlerking in most cases people dont forget their roots and know and (especially nowdays) say that they are kurdish , laz etc. . even when they are turkish patriots

and it is also known that many people from the east are or kurdish origin

most people from my kurdish gallery in my signature are also turkish kurds including celebrities

People don't get forget their roots BUT people don't know the ancestral makeup of each of their ancestral parents all they can trace to is roughly 150 years. Your grandparents would only know their own grandparents history just like most people today would only know from their own grandparents.

How would you know that your Kurdish ancestor din't marry a non-Kurdish ? Do you think you can be hundred percent sure that all your ancestors from here to 2000 years ago were all Kurdish ?

How would a Turkish know if several of it's ancestors didn't married a non-Turkish ? Did your parents and grandparents told you anything about your ancestors from 300 years ago ( around 1700's ).

[Turkminator]

1 Turks (Behar) 9.95
2 Turkish (Dodecad) 10.62
3 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 15.83
4 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 15.98
5 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 16.37
6 Iranian (Dodecad) 17.43
7 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 17.83
8 Kurd (Dodecad) 17.84
9 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 18.36
10 Iranians (Behar) 20.2
11 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 20.56



You are free to bring yours Demhaminator.

Aferin, Patria. But I meant the Admix-Results.

[Böri]

Go play with legos Minotaur.



How would a Turkish know if i several of it's ancestors didn't married a non-Turkish ? Did you parents and grandparents told you anything about your ancestors from 300 years ago ( around 1700's ).

Why do you care Hindo? Go prepare some biryani with curry sauce for us.

[Turkminator]

Do not be so shy. Show us your East Eurasian component.

[Böri]

Posted dozens of times.
My East Eurasian components are roughly 16%.

Beside We all waiting your orders and commands here?

Hooo hopppa...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0RBswydQsY

[Hadouken]

People don't get forget their roots BUT people don't know the ancestral makeup of each of their ancestral parents all they can trace to is roughly 150 years. Your grandparents would only know their own grandparents history just like most people today would only know from their own grandparents.

How would you know that your Kurdish ancestor din't marry a non-Kurdish ? Do you think you can be hundred percent sure that all your ancestors from here to 2000 years ago were all Kurdish ?

How would a Turkish know if several of it's ancestors didn't married a non-Turkish ? Did your parents and grandparents told you anything about your ancestors from 300 years ago ( around 1700's ).

this applies for every ethnicity on the planet

it is likely that I have a little turkish ancestry too and SOME turks also have a little kurdish ancestry . thats normal since we are living together and are countrymen .

it doesnt change anything ...people still know what they are . beside of that I have done genetic testing which is mostly normal kurdish

we are telling you how it is ...either you take it or leave it dude seriously

[Turkminator]

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 33.61
2 North_European 20.6
3 Gedrosia 14.14
4 Atlantic_Med 12.81
5 Southwest_Asian 3.21
6 East_Asian 8.33
7 Siberian 5.56
8 Northwest_African 1.67
9 Sub_Saharan 0.08

You little worms, that's what real Turks look like.

Call me the Turkish-Nordic warrior god.

[ButlerKing]

this applies for every ethnicity on the planet

it is likely that I have a little turkish ancestry too and SOME turks also have a little kurdish ancestry . thats normal since we are living together and are countrymen .

it doesnt change anything ...people still know what they are . beside of that I have done genetic testing which is mostly normal kurdish

we are telling you how it is ...either you take it or leave it dude seriously

No, it doesn't applies to every ethnicity on the planet. I don't think it would applies to all the isolated tribes of parts of Africa, India, Asia. I mean aboriginal groups are generally and any ancestry is recent.

It applies to Turkey much more especially when it's a country with like 30-50 ethnicity and the fact there was a massive policy of assimilation of non-Turkish people as Turks that happened since the medieval times

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkification


Just like it says

" Diverse people were effected by Turkification including Anatolian, Balkan, Caucasian and Middle Eastern peoples from different ethnic origins, such as Albanians, Arabs, Armenians, Assyrians, Circassians, Georgians, Greeks, Jews, Romani, Slavs, Iranic peoples such as Kurds, as well as Lazs from all the regions of the Ottoman Empire and Iran. "


AND



Andrew Mango describes the diversity of phenotypes amongst the Turkish people as follows:[9]

" The Turkish nation took shape in the centuries of Seljuk and Ottoman power. The nomadic Turkish conquerors did not displace the original local inhabitants: Hellenized Anatolians (or simply Greeks), Armenians, people of Caucasian origins, Kurds, Assyrians and—in the Balkans—Slavs, Albanians and others. They intermarried with them, while many local people converted to Islam and 'turned Turk'. They were joined by Muslims from the lands north of the Black Sea and the Caucasus, by Persian craftsmen and Arab scholars, and by European adventurers and converts, known in the West as renegades. As a result, the Turks today exhibit a wide variety of ethnic types. Some have delicate Far Eastern, others heavy local Anatolian features, some, who are descended from Slavs, Albanians or Circassians, have light complexions, others are dark-skinned, many look Mediterranean, others Central Asian, many appear Persian. A numerically small, but commercially and intellectually important, group is descended from converts from Judaism. One can hear Turks describe some of their fellow countrymen as 'hatchet-nosed Lazes' (a people on the Black Sea coast), 'dark Arabs' (a term which includes descendants of black slaves), or even 'fellahs'. But they are all Turk "

[Hadouken]

^ 30-50 ethnicities ? lol no

I will not repeat what I said already . stick to it

[ButlerKing]

Go play with legos Minotaur.



Why do you care Hindo? Go prepare some biryani with curry sauce for us.

Not that I really care but I was speaking some commonsense facts. Almost everyone who claims they know their origin origins well only known about it from either their parents or grandparents. They don't know anything before that.

People say all Gypsies came from India. They keep pointing out they have 48% haplogroup H Y-DNA but what about the 52% with European haplogroup, the same can be said with mtDNA. Some gypsie groups are genetically 90-95% European even though they call themselves pure gypsies.

[ButlerKing]

^ 30-50 ethnicities ? lol no

I will not repeat what I said already . stick to it

30-50 is a underestimate. There are 63 ethnic groups in Turkey and most of them can trace back to the Ottoman period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_in_Turkey


I don't need believe in this nonsense that Eastern Turks are not mixed just because you trust a guy who may not know the total historic background of it's individuals samples.

[Hadouken]

30-50 is a underestimate. There are 63 ethnic groups in Turkey and most of them can trace back to the Ottoman period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_in_Turkey


I don't need believe in this nonsense that Eastern Turks are not mixed just because you trust a guy who may not know the total historic background of it's individuals samples.

as usual you act as if you know turkey and its people better than people who are actually from turkey and tell you how things are . are you doing this on purpose to make us angry ? dont you have anything else to do ?

the major ethnicties of turkey are turks , kurds , circassians , lazes . there are also some people who are of albanian , bosniak , arab ancestry . or partly so. some georgians and armenians too but they are already very few . thats it . anything else is extreme minority

[ButlerKing]

as usual you act as if you know turkey and its people better than people who are actually from turkey and tell you how things are . are you doing this on purpose to make us angry ? dont you have anything else to do ?

the major ethnicties of turkey are turks , kurds , circassians , lazes . there are also some people who are of albanian , bosniak , arab ancestry . or partly so. some georgians and armenians too but they are already very few . thats it . anything else is extreme minority

Just because you come from there doesn't mean you know it better than I do.

According to numerous book sources. Those non-Turkic ethnic groups were far more populous then they were today but they are few today because they assimilated as Turkish and identify as Turkish.

[Hadouken]

Just because you come from there doesn't mean you know it better than I do.

yes it does

[ButlerKing]

yes it does

You know there are many people originate from a country when they can't even speak the language of.

You think every Turkish and Kurdish living overseas knows their own language ? they properly know their own basic history but they may not know everything that's happened before it. European Americans don't know their own European history.

[Hadouken]

You know there are many people originate from a country when they can't even speak the language of.

You think every Turkish and Kurdish living overseas knows their own language ? they properly basic history but they may not know everything that's happened later. European Americans don't know their own European history.

irrelevant . this has nothing to do with what we are discussing

you just have to accept when we tell you how things are if you are curious and want to know more . otherwise if you decline and try to force your own ideas nonetheless even though already told that they are wrong then it is nothing but trolling and even harrassement

get a grip already ..what you are doing is not having a conversation or debating but just pure agenda

[ButlerKing]

irrelevant . this has nothing to do with what we are discussing

you just have to accept when we tell you how things are if you are curious and want to know more . otherwise if you decline and try to force your own ideas nonetheless even though already told that they are wrong then it is nothing but trolling and even harrassement

get a grip already ..what you are doing is not having a conversation or debating but just pure agenda

I would it if were other countries and ethnic groups but Turkish history and it's formation of Turkish ethnic identity is very recent and complex.

You believe only what your parents/or grandparents told you and although it's the same with most countries around the world the problem with Turkey it's having not very heterogeneous history but rather a very complex history of Turkification and assimilation.

[Hadouken]

I would it if were other countries and ethnic groups but Turkish history and it's formation of Turkish ethnic identity is very recent and complex.

You believe only what your parents/or grandparents told you. Although it's the same with most countries around the world the problem with Turkey having a so not very heterogeneous history but rather a very complex history of Turkification and assimilation.

nothing to do with my parents . I know enough myself to speak

you know that you can dig deep like this in basically every ethnicity there is right ? I dont see what your point is . people know what they are and period . it doesnt matter that many years ago a few people here and there have been assimilated in the family . you have such things everywhere

to stay on topic also ...as you can see from the data you posted . these people are ethnic turks

[Marmara]

Turks are hanafi muslims, Kurds are shafi muslims. I'm not sure how much Kurds are Turkified but i know there are also Turks (Turcomans) who were Kurdified. Kurdish influence was strong in Eastern Turkey, they were ruling over others and swallowed others (Turcomans, Assyrians, Armenians) similar to Turks in Anatolia and Arabs in Levantine.

There was no Turkification attempt in Ottoman Empire,

[ButlerKing]

nothing to do with my parents . I know enough myself to speak

you know that you can dig deep like this in basically every ethnicity there is right ? I dont see what your point is . people know what they are and period . it doesnt matter that many years ago a few people here and there have been assimilated in the family . you have such things everywhere

to stay on topic also ...as you can see from the data you posted . these people are ethnic turks

It doesn't apply to every other ethnic group with a history far less complex than Turkey.

Do you even know what it's Turkification ????? It's when a ethnic group or group of people becomes completely assimilated to the Turkic ethnicity, language and later they all forget their own non-Turkic ancestors. They forget every other part of their ancestry that was non-Turkish and identify as a pure one.

You're either not as smart as me or not as open minded as me.

[Hadouken]

It doesn't apply to every other ethnic group with a history far less complex than Turkey.

Do you even know what it's Turkification ????? It's when a ethnic group or group of people becomes completely assimilated to the Turkic ethnicity, language and later they all forget their own non-Turkic ancestors. They forget every other part of their ancestry that was non-Turkish and identify as a pure one.


of course I know :picard1:



You're either not as smart as me or not as open minded as me.

yeah ...yeah... I guess ...or maybe you are crazy ? :crazy:

[ButlerKing]

Turks are hanafi muslims, Kurds are shafi muslims. I'm not sure how much Kurds are Turkified but i know there are also Turks (Turcomans) who were Kurdified. Kurdish influence was strong in Eastern Turkey, they were ruling over others and swallowed others (Turcomans, Assyrians, Armenians) similar to Turks in Anatolia and Arabs in Levantine.

There was no Turkification attempt in Ottoman Empire,

Turkification had happened since Turkic existed even the Chinese records had mentioned this since the Tang dynasty. The Chinese always mentioned turkification of Xinjiang and Central Asia by Turks and many western scholars including Turkish scholar mentioned Turkification of people in Turkey.

[Marmara]

It doesn't apply to every other ethnic group with a history far less complex than Turkey.

Do you even know what it's Turkification ????? It's when a ethnic group or group of people becomes completely assimilated to the Turkic ethnicity, language and later they all forget their own non-Turkic ancestors. They forget every other part of their ancestry that was non-Turkish and identify as a pure one.

You're either not as smart as me or not as open minded as me.

Lazes, Pomaks, Albanians, Bosniaks. They did not get "Turkified" as you put. Republic of Turkey considers everyone living in Turkey part of Turkish nation, but everyone is aware of their own identity.

[ButlerKing]

of course I know :picard1:



yeah ...yeah... I guess ...or maybe you are crazy ? :crazy:

So if you knew than what's your problem ? If we accept the facts of Turkification than you should also accept the fact that many Turkish people who call themselves pure Turkish was actually Turkified Turk even if they were told by their parents/or granpdarents of their origins.... because like I said the formation of Turkish ethnicity is very complex and much more recent. A eastern Turkish who have only 4.83% Mongoloid admixture compared with Turks Central and Eastern who have 12%, 11%, 9%, 13% Mongoloid admixture are obviously genetically diluted Turks.

[Marmara]

Turkification had happened since Turkic existed even the Chinese records had mentioned this since the Tang dynasty. The Chinese always mentioned turkification of Xinjiang and Central Asia by Turks and many western scholars including Turkish scholar mentioned Turkification of people in Turkey.

Depends on what you mean by Turkification. All nations are born by mix of multiple nations one prevailing others in culture and language. Central Asian Turkics are original Siberian + Scythian, Turkish people are Siberian + Scythian + Anatolian. This is not unique to Turks. What is the discussion here?

[ButlerKing]

Lazes, Pomaks, Albanians, Bosniaks. They did not get "Turkified" as you put. Republic of Turkey considers everyone living in Turkey part of Turkish nation, but everyone is aware of their own identity.

Some of it's ancestors could have been Turkified and some did not.

[Marmara]

Some of it's ancestors could have been Turkified and some did not.

Whos ancestors? Hadouken?

[Hadouken]

Whos ancestors? Hadouken?

he means those you listed

[Marmara]

he means those you listed

Devshirmes were Turkified Balkanites but they don't have significant impact, I2 peaks in Balkans while it's very low in Turkey (consider only males were devshirmes) There are also Albanians and Bosniaks in Turkey living, calling themselves Turkish, speak Turkish but aware of their identity, but i doubt that will last long.

[jackrussell]

Haydar'i alip dumduz giresim geldi oglana valla . :D

[Hadouken]

Devshirmes were Turkified Balkanites but they don't have significant impact, I2 peaks in Balkans while it's very low in Turkey (consider only males were devshirmes)

if those people were turkified then there wouldnt be people today who say that they have pomak/laz/albanian etc. roots

some have been turkified I think but many didnt . what butlerking is saying is basically that there is no real turk in turkey but at the same time he also always says that turks are mongoloid as fuck and not caucasoid like his people (which of course is crazy and not true) :D

hic cevap vermemek lazim buna . birak ötsün

[ButlerKing]

Depends on what you mean by Turkification. All nations are born by mix of multiple nations one prevailing others in culture and language. Central Asian Turkics are original Siberian + Scythian, Turkish people are Siberian + Scythian + Anatolian. This is not unique to Turks. What is the discussion here?

I now wonder what group Scythians really belong to and what they looked like. Although it's proven that ancient Scythians were also partially Siberian/East Asian but what is their appearance ?

Did they looked something like a western Uralic population ?

https://evolutionistx.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/khanty_family.jpg


Or did they look like Pamiri Tajiks ? ( indigenous population of Xinjiang China, North Afghanistan, East/Central Tajjikistan )

http://www.paulstravelblog.com/images/629/13.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Tajik_Pamiri_children.jpg

[ButlerKing]

if those people were turkified then there wouldnt be people today who say that they have pomak/laz/albanian etc. roots

some have been turkified I think but many didnt . what butlerking is saying is basically that there is no real turk in turkey but at the same time he also always says that turks are mongoloid as fuck and not caucasoid like his people (which of course is crazy and not true) :D

hic cevap vermemek lazim buna . birak ötsün

Actually I just want to say that Eastern Turks have Kurdish admixtures and have non-Turkish ancestors (never mind Turkic). I think Eastern Turkish people had a history of mixing with Kurds or a history of Turkification of Kurdish people and later these Turkified Kurdish Turks who show 0% or 2% Mongoloid admixture married with the Western and Central Turks with varrying degress and had a average of 12% Mongoloid hence the reason Eastern Turks have only a average of 4.83% Mongoloid admixture on average ( not saying there isn't Eastern Turks have a higher percentage than that )

[Marmara]

Actually I just want to say that Eastern Turks have Kurdish admixtures and have non-Turkish ancestors (never mind Turkic). I think Eastern Turkish people had a history of mixing with Kurds or a history of Turkification of Kurdish people and later these Turkified Kurdish Turks who show 0% or 2% Mongoloid admixture married with the Western and Central Turks with varrying degress and had a average of 12% Mongoloid hence the reason Eastern Turks have only a average of 4.83% Mongoloid admixture on average ( not saying there isn't Eastern Turks have a higher percentage than that )

It's quite impossible. There was no assimilation effort on Kurds because they were already Muslims before arrival of Turks and they were mostly autonomous and influential in the East. Kurds were annexed by Ottomans during Selim I's reign. After the dissolution of Aqqoyunlu Empire, the Grand Vizier (Prime Minister) of Aqqoyunlu, Idris-i Bitlis who was Kurdish, went to Ottomans, and assisted Ottomans in incorporating Kurds who were Sunnis like Ottomans and unlike Safavids who were Shias. Kurds in return were autonomous.

A lot of Armenians and Assyrians were living in Eastern Turkey so they could have been mixing with Turks (and Kurds).

[jackrussell]

Actually I just want to say that Eastern Turks have Kurdish admixtures and have non-Turkish ancestors (never mind Turkic). I think Eastern Turkish people had a history of mixing with Kurds or a history of Turkification of Kurdish people and later these Turkified Kurdish Turks who show 0% or 2% Mongoloid admixture married with the Western and Central Turks with varrying degress and had a average of 12% Mongoloid hence the reason Eastern Turks have only a average of 4.83% Mongoloid admixture on average ( not saying there isn't Eastern Turks have a higher percentage than that )

Your problem is the presumptions you have ; it's obvious that you have a rather narrow , limited and linear understanding of the so-called- process of Turkificiation .

:D

You are trying to fit Turks into your narrative which is largely based upon assumptions and presumption ; it is a colonial perspective and a framework which you also use as a reference too .

Turks are ancient and your model disregards this fact .

[ButlerKing]

Your problem is the presumptions you have ; it's obvious that you have a rather narrow , limited and linear understanding of the so-called- process of Turkificiation .

:D

You are trying to fit Turks into your narrative which is largely based upon assumptions and presumption ; it is a colonial perspective and a framework which you also use as a reference too .

Turks are ancient and your model disregards this fact .

Unlike you I study history of every ethnic group before I type anything in. Even the Turkish government categorized Kurds as mountain Turks before so it's even more natural that I find Turkification was a very common process back than.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds_in_Turkey

" The Turkish government categorized Kurds as "Mountain Turks" until 1991 "

19th century

" The total Kurdish population in Turkey was estimated at around 1.5 million in the 1880s, many of whom were nomadic or pastoral.[26]

20th century
"
" In 1937–38, approximately 10,000-15,000 Alevis and Kurds[29][30][31] were killed and thousands went into exile. A key component of the Turkification process was the policy of massive population resettlement. Referring to the main policy document in this context, the 1934 law on resettlement, a policy targeting the region of Dersim as one of its first test cases, with disastrous consequences for the local population.[32] The Dersim massacre is often confused with the Dersim Rebellion that took place during these events.[29] "

[ButlerKing]

It's quite impossible. There was no assimilation effort on Kurds because they were already Muslims before arrival of Turks and they were mostly autonomous and influential in the East. Kurds were annexed by Ottomans during Selim I's reign. After the dissolution of Aqqoyunlu Empire, the Grand Vizier (Prime Minister) of Aqqoyunlu, Idris-i Bitlis who was Kurdish, went to Ottomans, and assisted Ottomans in incorporating Kurds who were Sunnis like Ottomans and unlike Safavids who were Shias. Kurds in return were autonomous.

A lot of Armenians and Assyrians were living in Eastern Turkey so they could have been mixing with Turks (and Kurds).

I'm fine as long as it explains the less Mongoloid admixture in Eastern Turkey, maybe it was Armenians or Assyrians than. The reason why I believe Eastern Kurds was the source for it's Eastern Turkey it's because they are the predominant population and that's why I though Eastern Turks were Kurds of different Turkish ancestry.

[Bornoz]

Do you guys have any fb page with club photos?like the italian/greek etc posted?

Here it is dude. I made it for you
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?231689-Turkish-Club-Photos

[Marmara]

I'm fine as long as it explains the less Mongoloid admixture in Eastern Turkey, maybe it was Armenians or Assyrians than. The reason why I believe Eastern Kurds was the source for it's Eastern Turkey it's because they are the predominant population and that's why I though Eastern Turks were Kurds of different Turkish ancestry.

Yes but unlike Armenians and Assyrians, Kurds had no reason to assimilate since they were already prestigious in the area they lived (Eastern Turkey) and even managed to kurdify some Turcomans who were the descendants of Qaraqoyunlu and Aqqoyunlu.

[ButlerKing]

Yes but unlike Armenians and Assyrians, Kurds had no reason to assimilate since they were already prestigious in the area they lived (Eastern Turkey) and even managed to kurdify some Turcomans who were the descendants of Qaraqoyunlu and Aqqoyunlu.

Search around google. There is plenty info of Kurds being Turkified


" Turkification of Kurds in WWI:exile Kurdish leaders,settle Kurd refugees in small groups-erase language/tribal links "

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnBY4Z3UcAENb61.jpg

[jackrussell]

Unlike you I study history of every ethnic group before I type anything in. Even the Turkish government categorized Kurds as mountain Turks before so it's even more natural that I find Turkification was a very common process back than.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds_in_Turkey

" The Turkish government categorized Kurds as "Mountain Turks" until 1991 "

19th century

" The total Kurdish population in Turkey was estimated at around 1.5 million in the 1880s, many of whom were nomadic or pastoral.[26]

20th century
"
" In 1937–38, approximately 10,000-15,000 Alevis and Kurds[29][30][31] were killed and thousands went into exile. A key component of the Turkification process was the policy of massive population resettlement. Referring to the main policy document in this context, the 1934 law on resettlement, a policy targeting the region of Dersim as one of its first test cases, with disastrous consequences for the local population.[32] The Dersim massacre is often confused with the Dersim Rebellion that took place during these events.[29] "

You are attempting to pigeonhole the relations between Turks and Kurds down to Dersim and/or early Republics policies which were later defeated and revised by Turks . :D

You also have no idea about Kurds either because you keep underestimating them and actually insulting their intelligence too .

There are lots of Kurds who were once Turks and there are lots of Turks who were once Kurds .

The organic nature of the dynamic between the tribes of Turks and Kurds have allowed such evolution to occur ; it wasn't the guns or ideology of Turkish fascism .

:D

[jackrussell]

Search around google. There is plenty info of Kurds being Turkified


" Turkification of Kurds in WWI:exile Kurdish leaders,settle Kurd refugees in small groups-erase language/tribal links "

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnBY4Z3UcAENb61.jpg

You think this process succeeded ?

Kurds just gave up their culture ?

:D

You have no idea of the struggle .

[Böri]

You think this process succeeded ?

Kurds just gave up their culture ?

:D

You have no idea of the struggle .

Bravo.

[Hudayar]

I am Tunceli Kurd and on this calculator I score as much mongoloid as Elazig and Batman Turks (I score 2.85) . I would have guessed that those turks are mixed with kurdish but I think I know who made that map and I trust him. I score more mongoloid on other calculators which means that the mongoloid of some of the other people in this map will also be higher on other calcs . which is pretty impressive

I am a little surprised about Sakarya . wouldnt have thought they have more than Balıkesir

Sakarya has a lot of Manavs and Manavs are just settled Yörüks

[Leto]

Oh Holy Mongoloid :D

The table below contains regional averages (Dodecad K12b)

https://i.hizliresim.com/GyqEE7.png
I guess that map and the averages are a little outdated in 2020.