Mongol's view on genes

[demiirel]

So what if some people in Eastern Europe have Mongoloid genes? They have it. OK...so? Now what? Am I supposed to pound my chest like a proud gorilla? It's just a bare statement of fact. Not interesting.

And what is so surprising about Europeans believing in their racial superiority? I say, "let them". If it provides them with satisfaction and aesthetic pleasure, then so be it.

I'm really surprised that threads about genetics are the most active.

But anyway, I will look through some of these threads and maybe find some that are interesting.

[demiirel]

Ok, so I'll give you the straighforward and honest.

Mongol genes have had minimal impact on Europe. Maybe like 1% in Eastern Europe, slightly more in Tatars and Turks.

Mongols are slightly superior in average IQ to Europeans. The superior military strategy of Subotai could be one proof.

I don't support mass intermixing. There can a little intermixing, no problem with that. But I respect Europe's fears about extinction.

Europeans do have advantages when it comes to looks.

Mongols are more flexible and cat-like in their movement.

Europeans see Mongol genes as brutal. When they think Mongol, they think Sami. They think teepee-dwelling, vacant-staring dirty savage. They don't want anything to do with Mongol genes.

Europeans place too much importance on genes. They will slaughter each other if there is a 0.0001% difference in genes. They will think of themselves as gods or Atlantis creatures if there is a perceived superiority in 0.0001% of their genes.

I think Scandinavians are cool, because they can have slanted eyes like us. Bjork also has slanted eyes I think. But it seems everybody hates slanted eyes, so it is better that I don't speak about it. People think that when your eyes are small you see little and therefore you understand little.

[demiirel]

And Mongols are more neotenic I suppose. They take longer to develop, longer to age. And all that stuff. Bigger brains for sure. Maybe our flexibility is connected to neotenicness? But sometimes I think aesthetic qualities were sacrificed for intellectual and neotenic benefits. Why would Asians have no place in the media today? So maybe it will take 5000 more years for us to fix this problem.

[Electronic God-Man]

Clearly a troll.

We've had enough. We've had good trolls that we've even kept around, but you just don't make the cut.

My apologies,
Soten

[Lithium]

This is a forum for European cultural and ethnic preservation - I don't see what a mongol like you could do for this еxcept talking about your people.

[demiirel]

Civis Batavi, whom I found to be an agreeable person, recommended that I post a few things on the genetics and genealogy sections. So this is my attempt at a post. Instead I get called a bad troll (what is a good troll? what is a troll anyway?) and told to get lost. Great.

I also don't know what a European Mongol like me could do in the Genetics section. I originally wanted to remain in the Linguistics section.

[The Journeyman]

...

[Raikaswinþs]

I don´t think that you are a troll...but you write so many random bullshit that you donñt make any interesting point to read. boring, poor documented...

[Talvi]

Civis Batavi, whom I found to be an agreeable person, recommended that I post a few things on the genetics and genealogy sections. So this is my attempt at a post. Instead I get called a bad troll (what is a good troll? what is a troll anyway?) and told to get lost. Great.

I also don't know what a European Mongol like me could do in the Genetics section. I originally wanted to remain in the Linguistics section.

You didnt post anything about genetics. Just babbled about how much more awesome mongols are and stereotyped a lot. D: This does seem like a troll post.

[demiirel]

You didnt post anything about genetics. Just babbled about how much more awesome mongols are and stereotyped a lot. D: This does seem like a troll post.

Because I know little about genetics beyond my biology class and some wikipedia information.


Mongol genes have had minimal impact on Europe.

I don't support mass intermixing. There can a little intermixing, no problem with that. But I respect Europe's fears about extinction.

Europeans do have advantages when it comes to looks.

Europeans see Mongol genes as brutal. When they think Mongol, they think Sami. They think teepee-dwelling, vacant-staring dirty savage. They don't want anything to do with Mongol genes.

But it seems everybody hates slanted eyes, so it is better that I don't speak about it. People think that when your eyes are small you see little and therefore you understand little. But sometimes I think aesthetic qualities were sacrificed for intellectual and neotenic benefits.

Why would Asians have no place in the media today? So maybe it will take 5000 more years for us to fix this problem.

Does this sound like I'm saying Mongols are awesome?

[demiirel]

I know that Jews have a gene which gives them sickle cell disease or some other disease. I know that the son of Nicholas II had a genetic disease, which Rasputin was supposedly able to relieve. I know that Scandinavia is the place where blondness is most prevalent. Hungary too I think. Mediterraneans have a great deal of Semitic (Arab, Phoenician) genes as well. I know that Celts have the curse of the Celts. This is about the extent of my knowledge.

[Foxy]

I think that we can answer you without calling you a troll. Speaking about haplogroups at least Eastern Europeans and Mongols are very different.

http://www.bedini.org/images/forum/Mappa%20aplogruppi%20nel%20mondo-1.jpg

The only thing that we share is a very little portion of haplogroup K, that anyway is found mostly among Tatars, Portugueses and Italians. The closest people to Mongols are Tatars.
In detail:

http://pastmist.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/__y-map.gif

However the percentage of haplogroup K is so low among Mongols and Italians/portugueses that we cannot speak of same dna. Most Italians and Portugueses belong to R1b while Mongols to C and O.

[demiirel]

Thank you Vampire of Venice!

Wow I never heard about haplogroup K. What does it do? What does it make you look like? I guess it's just a tiny bit of information written inside your nuclei, maybe controls the length of your pinky fingernail. Shared with Portuguese and Italians? Wow again. That means haplogroup K is the umbilical cord which connects me to you, Vampire of Venice, since you're Italian. I feel the pulsating umbilical cord.

[Pallantides]

When they think Mongol, they think Sami.


What... maybe apart from a few retards on race boards, most people don't think Sami are Mongol.
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7809/saami.png

I myself didn't hear about the false idea that Finns and Sami were supposedly "Mongoloid" before I visited anthro and racialist forums, most Scandinavians don't consider them as anything but Europeans.

[demiirel]

I know that 5% of Mongols have European genes. I know that 5% of me is genetic Europe, ergo tengo calidad racial tambien.

[demiirel]

Ah, Norway. I feel close to Norway, Sweden and Finland, because they have the closest nature to the land of Genghis Khan. As much as Scandinavia may be far from the civilized centers of the south, it is still a starkly beautiful land I'm sure, simply because it resembles the land of Genghis Khan.

Yeah, I guess the Sami have Europeanized beyond recognition by now. But their culture is so unique.

[Foxy]

Thank you Vampire of Venice!

Wow I never heard about haplogroup K. What does it do? What does it make you look like? I guess it's just a tiny bit of information written inside your nuclei, maybe controls the length of your pinky fingernail. Shared with Portuguese and Italians? Wow again. That means haplogroup K is the umbilical cord which connects me to you, Vampire of Venice, since you're Italian. I feel the pulsating umbilical cord.

Haplogroup K is from South-West Asia. It is extremely rare in Europe. Very few Italians, Portugueses, Greeks and others own it. The interesting fact is that from haplogroup K bore the haplogroup C, very common in Mongolia. After all all the humans are related, but for the most Mongolians are very different from Europeans. Haplogroups cannot be connected to a specific phenotype.

[demiirel]

But we must remember that genetic classification of populations is still in its nascent stages. For example very few people have made really detailed studies of Mongols. The samples tend to be ridiculously small.

[Radola]

What... maybe apart from a few retards on race boards, most people don't think Sami are Mongol.
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7809/saami.png

I myself didn't hear about the false idea that Finns and Sami were supposedly "Mongoloid" before I visited anthro and racialist forums, most Scandinavians don't consider them as anything but Europeans.

Really? That idea is quite spread among Czechs or Slovaks, nearly anyone (not racialist nor wannabe anthropologist) will tell you that Sámi are "mongolids". I bet people in other countries think the same.;)

[Talvi]

Really? That idea is quite spread among Czechs or Slovaks, nearly anyone (not racialist nor wannabe anthropologist) will tell you that Sámi are "mongolids". I bet people in other countries think the same.;)

... the first time I heard that people thought they are mongoloid was also from message boards like these. Or some random dude on the internet telling me im mongoloid because Im Estonian. I guess it depends who you are and where you are from.

[Osweo]

Thank you Vampire of Venice!

Wow I never heard about haplogroup K. What does it do? What does it make you look like? I guess it's just a tiny bit of information written inside your nuclei, maybe controls the length of your pinky fingernail. Shared with Portuguese and Italians? Wow again. That means haplogroup K is the umbilical cord which connects me to you, Vampire of Venice, since you're Italian. I feel the pulsating umbilical cord.


Ah, Norway. I feel close to Norway, Sweden and Finland, because they have the closest nature to the land of Genghis Khan. As much as Scandinavia may be far from the civilized centers of the south, it is still a starkly beautiful land I'm sure, simply because it resembles the land of Genghis Khan.

Yeah, I guess the Sami have Europeanized beyond recognition by now. But their culture is so unique.

Ah, so you ARE here to take the piss. Very disappointing. :tsk: After putting so much effort into filling your profile with pictures, corresponding with members, explaining your eligibility to even be here, you just start mocking. Ah well, I suppose you won't be here much longer at this rate. :ohwell:

[Pallantides]

Really? That idea is quite spread among Czechs or Slovaks, nearly anyone (not racialist nor wannabe anthropologist) will tell you that Sámi are "mongolids". I bet people in other countries think the same.;)

Well I know some Scandinavians who thought Slavs were part Mongols, so you can find ignorants everywhere.

[Radola]

Well I know some Scandinavians who thought Slavs were part Mongols, so you can find ignorants everywhere.

of course, but if you say: sámi, it just resembles an "asiatic look", that´s what I´m talking about.;)

[Don Brick]

Ah, Norway. I feel close to Norway, Sweden and Finland, because they have the closest nature to the land of Genghis Khan.

Yeah ´cause Mongolia is know for its lakes, great forest wildernesses, fjords and whatnot... :coffee: Sir, you seemed promising enough at first, but now I´m starting to smell the stench of a troll.

[demiirel]

Ah, so you ARE here to take the piss. Very disappointing. After putting so much effort into filling your profile with pictures, corresponding with members, explaining your eligibility to even be here, you just start mocking. Ah well, I suppose you won't be here much longer at this rate.

Hey, I thought we were friends! What's with all the sudden outburst? You're really playing with my Mongol sensitivities. There is absolutely NO MOCKING in my posts, that is against my honor. If I have mocked, please explain.

[demiirel]

Yeah ´cause Mongolia is know for its lakes, great forest wildernesses, fjords and whatnot... Sir, you seemed promising enough at first, but now I´m starting to smell the stench of a troll.

How in God's name can my post be trolling? Does everything I write have to meet 8769 criteria? Well, name what these 8769 criteria are at least, so that I can navigate in this forum without shipwrecking on my first day. I mean, come on, I've invested much. You're a Finn. I've even praised Finland. What have you got against Mongols?

[Pallantides]

of course, but if you say: sámi, it just resembles an "asiatic look", that´s what I´m talking about.;)

Sámi people are almost indistinguishable from Scandinavians and Finns in apperance:confused:

[Radola]

Sámi people are almost indistinguishable from Scandinavians and Finns in apperance:confused:

I´m just trying to tell you, that regardless of the fact they´re nowadays nearly indistinguishable from Scandinavians, many people think they look like those:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/cass22/lundborg/Lappish_2.jpg
http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/823852.1332.brdevctacw/800x650/Irina%20Khanzerova%20Sámi%20Radio.jpg?no=3

[Don Brick]

How in God's name can my post be trolling? Does everything I write have to meet 8769 criteria? Well, name what these 8769 criteria are at least, so that I can navigate in this forum without shipwrecking on my first day. I mean, come on, I've invested much. You're a Finn. I've even praised Finland. What have you got against Mongols?

I have nothing against Mongols. When did I insinuate something like that? And if you indeed are not a troll I have nothing against you either. Perhaps it´s just case of lost in translation and I´m misunderstanding your wording, but I can´t help but get some trollish vibes from some of your posts. You gotta understand that trolls are frequent and when they´re good at their "craft" they can be quite subtle. But if you in fact are not a troll and you just have some slightly "off" information then there´s no problem at all. No hard feelings. But I can´t be sure can I? And I appreciate that you feel closeness and share some (although quite far fetched) similarities with Europeans. I have nothing against that, but I´ve been to these anthroforums and teh internet in general long enough to know that people with agendas can use these very things against others, if you understand what I´m getting at. Maybe I´m just paranoid and pessimistic, but so be it. Anyway, I guess you´re innocent until proven "guilty". Peace! :)

[Bloodeagle]

How in God's name can my post be trolling? What have you got against Mongols?

What should you expect from a European preservation forum?

So we all know that Mongols tried to infiltrate Europe in its age of conquest.
I have a feeling that this same crazy Mongol frenzy via horseback and nomadic life was taught to them by marauding Scythian-Kurgan-Aryan-what-have-you's from Eastern Europe, many years before.

I will go ahead and post some pictures that have been seen ad nauseum.
http://pastmist.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/blond-mongol-girl.jpg
http://world.theglobe24.com/wp-content/themes/royalagartin/scripts/timthumb.php?src=http://world.theglobe24.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/zhelaizhai.jpg&h=280&w=329&ZC=1

[Pallantides]

http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/823852.1332.brdevctacw/800x650/Irina%20Khanzerova%20Sámi%20Radio.jpg?no=3

That woman is not even a Sámi but a Nenet...


Here is a Kola Sámi
http://img3.custompublish.com/getfile.php/836474.623.pwxwsbvquq/Paul,+Aleksandr.jpghttp://gfx.nrk.no/CtlJzi8BJGQ1c1ePoPDvgAlMswuPyFzlaeWNTJWumtZw.jpg

[The Lawspeaker]

Alright. There is something that struck me a while back. Namely this (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10436) article stating that there is a genetic link between the risk to commit suicide in Eastern Europe and alcoholism and Asian genes. Now the racists amongst you will think "bullocks", "pc claptrap" and all that stuff but the possibilities are certainly there.

Note:
Precieze oorzaken kun je nooit vaststellen, meent professor Cyril Hoschl uit Praag, Tsjechië: ,,Landen met veel suïcides zijn rijk (Finland, Japan) maar ook arm (Kazachstan). Er zijn arme, onstabiele landen die weinig suïcides hebben: Albanië, Azerbaidzjan en Georgië. Voor elke mogelijke oorzaak kun je bewijs én tegenspraak vinden.'' Voorbeeld: depressiviteit door gebrek aan zonlicht plaagt de Scandinaviërs. Maar de Zweden hebben 12,7 suïcides (per honderdduizend inwoners), de Finnen 22. Terwijl het in Finland net zo donker of licht is als in Zweden.

Precise causes are difficult to determine, thinks professor Cyril Hoschl of Prague, Czech Republic: "Countries with a great number of suicides are rich (Finland, Japan) but also poor (Kazakhstan) . There are poor and unstable countries that have less suicides like Albania, Azerbaijan and Georgia. For every possible there can be found both evidence and evidence of the contrary. Example: depression because of a lack of sunlight plagues the Scandinavians. But tthe Swedes have 12.7 suicides (per 100.000 people) and the Finns 22. While in Finland it is just as dark or just as light as in Sweden.


Now this it is getting interesting. What do you reckon ?


Professor Andrej Marusic uit Slovenië vermoedt nu dat dit laatste verschil komt doordat Finnen andere voorouders hebben dan Zweden. En, wat meer is: hij denkt bovendien dat dat dezelfde voorouders zijn als die van veel Oost-Europeanen. De voorouders van de Finnen en de Hongaren zijn Finno-Oegrische emigranten, afkomstig uit de Oeral. Zij waren aangepast aan het leven in koude klimaten. Ze kenden geen wijnbouw, laat staan overvloedig drankgebruik en -gewenning.

De eerste verdachte genenbrenger is de herdersstam van de Magyaren. Die heeft 1300 jaar geleden Hongarije veroverd en zijn genetisch materiaal uitgezaaid tot in het oosten van Oostenrijk en Tsjechië. Het begin ervan is exact te dateren. In het jaar 862 stroomden honderd- tot vijfhonderdduizend Magyaren Hongarije binnen.

Marusic' eigen land, Slovenië, reikte hem deze sleutel aan. Het Alpenrepubliekje Slovenië grenst aan Zuid-Hongarije. ,,Die grensregio heeft extreem hoge cijfers, tot wel vijftig per honderdduizend. Maar Slovenië als geheel heeft een zuidelijk klimaat en een etnisch eenvormige bevolking van twee miljoen mensen. Grote armoede ontbreekt. Het land ontsnapte aan de Balkanoorlog en het communisme. Ondanks deze schokken bleef het zelfmoordcijfer stabiel. Voorts is 86 procent van de mensen rooms-katholiek. Op grond van dit alles mag je verwachten dat ons suïcidecijfer extreem laag is - zoals Italië, of Spanje. Maar dat is het niet. Het hoort bij de hoogste van Europa. Dit is een zeer sterke aanwijzing dat ons genetisch materiaal een rol speelt. Nog een: in andere landen is het suïcidecijfer onder minderheden altijd hoger dan onder de meerderheid. In Slovenië is het andersom.''

De wijnbouw was gebracht door de Romeinen. Het stierf uit tijdens de invasies van de oosterse stammen. Wijnbouw was in de middeleeuwen, gezien het milde klimaat een logische keuze voor Sloveense boeren. Maar diezelfde boer kan goed Oeralische genen hebben, wat hem te gevoelig maakt voor alcoholmisbruik en depressie. Marusic wijst op het verschil tussen Finland en Zweden en op de opvallend hoge cijfers in de grensregio's van de buurlanden, die aan Hongarije grenzen.

Bovendien: etnische Finnen leven niet alleen in Finland maar ook in Russisch Karelië. En etnische Hongaren vind je verder in Transsylvanië (Roemenië) en de Vojvodina (Servië). ,,Onder ál deze, verwante, groepen is suïcide wijdverbreid. In het originele gebied van herkomst van de beide etnische groepen, de stammen van de Mari en de Udmurts in de Oeral, zijn de cijfers nog weer driemaal hoger dan in Hongarije en Finland.''

Voor Marusic en zijn collega's is het duidelijk: het is niet langer mogelijk, verschillen in suïcide binnen Europa enkel te verklaren uit sociaal-culturele factoren. Het móet iets met de genen te maken hebben. ,,Het ziet er overtuigend uit. Maar sluitend bewijs is alleen te krijgen door groot bevolkingsonderzoek. In dat stadium zijn we nog niet. We hebben geen geld.''

Professor Andrej Marusic from Slovenia thinks that the latter difference is also due to the fact that the Finns have different ancestors then the Swedes. And even more so: he believes that they are the same ancestors from many Eastern Europeans. The ancestors of the Finns and Hungarians are Finno-Ugric migrants who came from the Urals. They were adapted to living in colder climates. They didn't know about viticulture, let alone about using alcohol excessively or becoming tolerant to intoxication.

The first "suspect" gene carrier would be the shepherd's tribe of the Magyars. Those conquered Hungary some 1300 years ago and has spread it's genetic material as far to the east as the eastern part of Austria and the Czech Republic. The exact beginning of it all can be dated exactly as in the year 862 100.000 to 500.000 Magyars streamed into Hungary.

Marusic's own country, Slovenia, handed him the key to this theory. The alpine republic of Slovenia borders Southern Hungary. "That border region has extremely high amounts. Sometimes to as much as 50 per 100.000. But Slovenia in general has a southern climate and an extremely homogeneous population of some two million. Poverty at large is lacking and the country excaped both most of the horrors of the Yugoslav Wars and communism. Also around 86 percent of the population is Catholic. So.. taking that all into account one might think that our suicide figures would be extremely low like in Italy in Spain. But it's not the case. It's part of the highest figures in all of Europe. So this leads to an indication that our genetic material is playing a role.

Another one: in another countries the suicide figure amongst (ethnic, religious) minorities is always higher then under the majority of the population. In Slovenia it is the other way around."

Viticulture was brought by the Romans and it died out during the invasions of the eastern tribes. Viticulture was during the middle ages, because of the mild climate, a logical choice for Slovenian farmers. But that same farmer may have Uralic genes which makes him susceptible to alcohol abuse and depression. Marusic points at the profound difference between Finland and Sweden and at the extremely high marks in the border regions of the countries that are bordering Hungary.

More so: ethnic Finns do not just live in Finland but also in Russian Karelia. And ethnic Hungarians can also be found in Transylvania (Romania) and in the Vojvodina (Serbia). "Under all these, genetically linked, groups is suicide not uncommon. In the original area of their ancestors, the tribes of the Mari and the Udmurts in the Urals, the figures are three times as high as those of Hungary and Finland."

For Marusic and it's colleagues the matter is clear: "it is no longer possible to explain the differences in suicide in Europe from the point of socio-cultural factors. The genetic factor has to be taken into account "It looks convincing enough. But clear-cut evidence can only be obtained in a large-scaled inquiry throughout the general population but we aren't in that stage just yet... as we have no money."

[Raikaswinþs]

dude your inferiority complex sickens me... If genghis khan could see you doing what you´re doing here you´d be beheaded by know. Glory to the Khan! and Glory to Khal Drogo!

[Radola]

That woman is not even a Sámi but a Nenet...


Here is a Kola Sámi
http://img3.custompublish.com/getfile.php/836474.623.pwxwsbvquq/Paul,+Aleksandr.jpghttp://gfx.nrk.no/CtlJzi8BJGQ1c1ePoPDvgAlMswuPyFzlaeWNTJWumtZw.jpg

The question is, how much of a real Sámi is still in him? But neverthless, I want to make clear that I don´t have anything against Sámis, I´m not the one to say they´re "mongoloids" or whatever, I just wanted to show you, what people here in Central Europe think of them;)

[demiirel]

dude your inferiority complex sickens me... If genghis khan could see you doing what you´re doing here you´d be beheaded by know. Glory to the Khan! and Glory to Khal Drogo!

Genghis Khan was more flexible than that. Genghis Khan was humble enough to take lessons from a Daoist monk. He was humble enough to bow before his blood brother Jamukha. There was no rashness in him, only firm principles, but he was wily as a wolf.

All Mongoloids are accused of having inferiority complexes. But we just take it silently. We don't fuss. We let actions speak louder than words.

[Radola]

I´ve got a question, what is the average height of Kalmyks? I don´t want exact numbers, just your suggestions a impressions.

[Raikaswinþs]

sure you, that´s why yo here moaning how Caucasians have better looks... whatever the fuck that means... I really like mongols. But this ain´t a forum to speak about mongols, maybe you wanna talk to us a bit more about your people. you are european after all. As for me, any european is better welcome here, no matter what his phenotype or european region, country, oblast whatever, than the ordes of non eurosthat populate the forum and infest it with their new world or post colonial views.

As much as I like Australians, Argentinians and Americans...they aren´t european. They should have a forum for themselves, and leave us alone

[The Lawspeaker]

Just because it is getting so interesting I will translate another bit:


Van J-curve naar S-bocht
De Sloveense wetenschapper wil de J-curve zelfs uitbreiden, met een S-bocht. Naast de Finno-Oegrische stammen wijst hij naar de Mongoolse horden. Die hebben Rusland in 1250 veroverd, om het vervolgens drie eeuwen te overheersen.

,,Vandaag, acht eeuwen later, lijkt het erop dat de genetische sporen van de Mongolen medeschuldig zijn aan de traditionale Russische zwakheid voor alcohol. Het gen, bekend als ADH2-2, is algemeen in Azië maar zeldzaam in Europa. Alcoholconsumptie was schaars onder Aziatische stammen. Men ontwikkelde zich verschillend van Europa, met zijn traditie van alcoholproductie en consumptie. Europeanen hebben weerstand opgebouwd.''


De Russen niet, zo blijkt. Ze vertonen een negatief verband tussen het ADH2-2-gen, afhankelijkheid van alcohol en alcoholcirrose. De dragers van het gen reageerden veel vaker sterk negatief op drank (agressief, depressief) en trokken zich sneller terug.

,,Verder naar het noordoosten, in Alaska, steekt het suïcidecijfer onder de inheemse bevolking (42,7) schril af bij de rest van Alaska en de VS. Onder inheemse mannen is het 68,5, zesmaal meer dan het landelijke gemiddelde van de VS.''

Dit suggereert opnieuw een genetisch-Aziatisch onvermogen om alcohol te verdragen. Ook de Inuit (eskimo's) van Groenland zijn uiterst kwetsbaar, zo blijkt sinds 1950. Hun voorouders migreerden volgens de wetenschap zo'n twintigduizend jaar geleden vanuit Azië. Het aantal zelfmoorden houdt gelijke tred met alcoholconsumptie: 107 per 100.000 eilandbewoners per jaar.

Sommige mensen lopen dus meer risico dan anderen. De combinatie van de genetische make-up - geërfd van Aziatische stammen die Oost-Europa binnendrongen - en de leefomstandigheden, versterkt dit. ,,Maar we praten altijd alleen over 'kans'. Al loopt iemand al deze risico's - dat wil niet zeggen dat iemand het 'zeker' doet.''

Heeft Marusic al interesse van pharmaceutische bedrijven om onderzoek te financieren, met het oog op een tegenmedicijn? ,,Niet echt, de industrie onderkent het belang van een mogelijk anti-suïcidemedicijn nog niet. Terwijl liefst drie procent van alle Slovenen, Litouwers of Hongaren door zelfmoord zal sterven! Dat is er één in elk klaslokaal, in de meest productieve levensjaren, tussen 40 en 50. In tegenstelling tot vooroordelen zijn dit vaardige, begaafde, assertieve, impulsieve mensen, die veranderingen aandurven. De maatschappij kan ze daarbij helpen zonder de onwelkome, bijkomende tragische schade.''


From J-curve to S-bend.

The Slovenian scientist wants to even expand the J-curve with an S-bend. Besides the Finno-Ugric tribes he points at the Mongolian hordes as they have conquered Russia in 1250 and ruled it for three-hundred years.

"Today.. some eight centuries later, does it appear that the genetic marks of the Mongols are complicit to the traditional Russian weakness for alcohol. The gene known as ADH2-2 is common in Asia but rare in Europe. Alcohol consumption was rare amongst Asian tribes who developed themselves differently from Europe with it's traditions of alcohol production and consumption. Europe has build up toleration.

The Russians haven't, so it shows. They have a negative correlation between the ADH2-2, dependence on alcohol and alcohol cirrhosis. The carriers of these genes responded much more often negatively on the influence of alcohol (aggressiveness and depression) and were more prone to withdraw themselves.

"More to the North-East, in Alaska, the suicide figure under the indigenous population (42,7) is in shrill contrast with the rest of Alaska and the United States.

Under indigenous men it is 68.5, six times as high then the national average in the United States."

This now shows again a genetic- Asian tendency to not being able to hold alcohol. Also the Inuit of Alaska are extremely vulnerable, it has shown since 1950. Their ancestors migrated according to science around 20.000 years ago from Asia. The number of suicides hold equal pace with alcohol consumption: 107 per 100.000 islanders per year.

Some people have more risk then others. The combination of genetic make-up as inherited from the Asian tribes that invaded Eastern Europe and the social conditions compound this factor. "But we are all always taking about a "chance." Even if someone is running the risk, - that doesn't necessarily mean that someone will do it for sure."

Has Marusic received offers from the pharmaceutical industry to finance the inquiry, while studying for a possible medicine ? "Not really, the industry does not yet seem to recognise the interest of a possible anti-suicide medicine. While at least three percent of all Slovenes, Lithuanians or Hungarians will die as a result of suicide ! That's one in every classroom, in the most productive years of his or her life between the age of 40 and 50. In contrast to the many prejudices are these competent, gifted, assertive and impulsive people that can take change. Society can help them without the unwelcome, collateral and tragic damage."

[demiirel]

I´ve got a question, what is the average height of Kalmyks? I don´t want exact numbers, just your suggestions.

Don't imagine Kalmyks to be as short as the Sami or the Taiwanese. We average around 173 cm I suppose, and growing taller as we become more affluent. In Mongolia there are some really short 160 cm people who are exactly like the Sami, the Tsaatan reindeer people of Khuvsgul aimak. I'm 182 cm, as average as you can get. When I was in China, I towered above the Chinese. It helps to be close to 180 cm. Chinese seem like they're all brains but too small vessel.

[demiirel]

Aye Civis, Mongols have a weakness for that hard stuff I'm afraid. Buncha drunk Mongol soldiers and generals throat singing before Genghis Khan in Khwarazm. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOnhVX7Q8FM) Genghis Khan said it is praiseworthy if a man drinks three times a week or something like that. The later Khans basically drunk themselves to death. That's what makes Genghis unique, his control of alcoholism. Maybe he had some Nordic blood?

But I'm like Hitler, no smoking, no habitual drinking. Pure puritan.

[Don Brick]

Don't imagine Kalmyks to be as short as the Sami or the Taiwanese. We average around 173 cm I suppose, and growing taller as we become more affluent. In Mongolia there are some really short 160 cm people who are exactly like the Sami, the Tsaatan reindeer people of Khuvsgul aimak. I'm 182 cm, as average as you can get. When I was in China, I towered above the Chinese. It helps to be close to 180 cm. Chinese seem like they're all brains but too small vessel.

How can you at 182 cm be as average as one can gets if the actual average is 173 cm? Also please stop talking about the Saami.

[The Lawspeaker]

Aye Civis, Mongols have a weakness for that hard stuff I'm afraid. Buncha drunk Mongol soldiers and generals throat singing before Genghis Khan in Khwarazm. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOnhVX7Q8FM) Genghis Khan said it is praiseworthy if a man drinks three times a week or something like that. The later Khans basically drunk themselves to death. That's what makes Genghis unique, his control of alcoholism. Maybe he had some Nordic blood?

But I'm like Hitler, no smoking, no habitual drinking. Pure puritan.
Or he was smart enough to recognise the problem. Which would make him an intelligent man in a time where people were too preoccupied with smashing up things.

[demiirel]

How can you at 182 cm be as average as one can gets if the actual average is 173 cm? Also please stop talking about the Saami.

I meant the world average. Lost in translation...

Hey, about the Tsaatan being almost identical to the Saami, I will stand very firmly on that. Because it's true. The Tsaatan (meaning reindeer people) herd reindeer, worship shamanism, dwell in "teepees", look like the Saami and live in Khuvsgul Aimak in Mongolia which is basically a carbon copy of Lappland in certain regions. I will stand very firmly on that.

[Pallantides]

I'm also 182cm ... and I doubt it's the world average. :confused:


Saami have no more connection to Mongolia than any other European population.

[The Lawspeaker]

I doubt it too. We Dutch have an average of 1.82ish to 1.85 and that's way above the world average.

But then again: I am a small guy (1.72... thanks mum ! :D).

[Radola]

I'm also 182cm ... and I doubt it's the world average. :confused:


Saami have no more connection to Mongolia than any other European population.

Exactly, average height in the world is deep under 182 cm´s.;)

[Radola]

According to the research of John Komlos of University of Munich, Czech people are third tallest in the world, together with Swedish and Norwegians. With their average height of 177.5 cm (5ft 9.8) they are even taller than their American counterparts who used to be the tallest in the world not long time ago.

The tallest nation from the ranked states are Dutch people with the average height of 181.25 cm (5ft 11), followed by Danish people with 180 cm (5ft 10). Americans with average height of 176 cm (5ft 9.2) are behind Germans and British.


:) As you can see guys, 182 just can´t be an average height.

[demiirel]

I'm also 182cm ... and I doubt it's the world average.

Obviously the world average will go lower once you add the numerous pygmies, dwarfs, hobbits and other short (mainly southern) peoples of the world (i'm not talking about actual dwarfs and vertically challenged people, just short people). But 180 cm is still a commonly accepted, albeit false, "average standard" in the world. This is the sense in which I meant it.


But then again: I am a small guy (1.72... thanks mum ! ).

No probs, 172 is still average. There are guys who are 165, even 160. My mom is 165 please, so chill dude. I've my father to thank for my stature. But man are Germans tall!


Saami have no more connection to Mongolia than any other European population.

Naah, but they do, don't you see. To Tsaatan the Saami have myriad connections. These reindeer people belong to one Reindeerosphere. It's all common for them, their culture. They've been roaming the northern lands for millenia. Why would everybody be saying they are Mongoloid if they're not Mongoloid (albeit an aboriginal pygmy-type Mongoloid)? Look at pre-20th century sources. It's all there. Saami are the mirror image of the Tsaatans.

[Vasconcelos]

But then again: I am a small guy (1.72... thanks mum ! :D).

I'M TALLER THAN A DUTCHMAN, I FEEL SO PROUD RIGHT NOW :thumb001:

[Osweo]

WTF is he going on about now? Uriangkhai?

Probably some distant Selkup or Ostyak relatives, now Turkicised or Mongolicised?

I've been to Buryatia, and to Vorkuta and the White Sea, so I don't know what the hell these 'similarities' are supposed to be..... :ohwell:

[demiirel]

You were in Buryatia? And elephants swim underwater. If you really met these people in Khuvsgul Aimak in northern Mongolia you would know.

[Osweo]

You were in Buryatia? And elephants swim underwater. If you really met these people in Khuvsgul Aimak in northern Mongolia you would know.

I flew to Irkutsk, and went by train round the bottom of Baikal. :shrug:
As believable as your stories.

An ex of mine actually did fieldwork in .. what's that autonomous okrug called? Ust Kamsky? The one near Irkutsk, west of Baikal. She wrote a paper about the way they put the goat's bladder on the roof after slaughtering, for some weird reason that now escapes me.

.... Ust Ordinsky A O?

http://gratefultothedead.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/swimming-elephant1.jpg

[demiirel]

Well Mancaestir, Mammary Castle, I am thoroughly impressed. It's like Bede snakecharming in Jaipur.

You did interact with or at least spot some intellectual Mongols there, I suppose?

[Osweo]

Well Mancaestir, Mammary Castle, I am thoroughly impressed. It's like Bede snakecharming in Jaipur.
Or 'fortress of the Mother'! :rage:p

You did interact with or at least spot some intellectual Mongols there, I suppose?
Just one. She was working in a little shop on the Irkutsk - Listvyanka road, selling little sculptures made from the special local minerals. Nephrite, I believe. I was there with my Dad, and we were talking to her for a bit.

Heh, I went in a Nineteenth Century Buryat house too. Like a yurt, but of wood. On the banks of the Angara at Tal'tsy muzei derevyannogo zodchestva. I stood on the Shaman Stone where the Angara leaves Baikal too, and my Dad made the boat's captain leave me there for half an hour on a tiny rock covered in birdshit. :D

[demiirel]

Just one. She was working in a little shop on the Irkutsk - Listvyanka road, selling little sculptures made from the special local minerals. Nephrite, I believe. I was there with my Dad, and we were talking to her for a bit.

Heh, I went in a Nineteenth Century Buryat house too. Like a yurt, but of wood. On the banks of the Angara at Tal'tsy muzei derevyannogo zodchestva. I stood on the Shaman Stone where the Angara leaves Baikal too, and my Dad made the boat's captain leave me there for half an hour on a tiny rock covered in birdshit.

Wicked. Did you see the spirit of the Baikal?

[Osweo]

Wicked. Did you see the spirit of the Baikal?

Is that the fast boat? If so, yes, but didn't get to go on her. If it's something rather more spooky, then no, unless she was inside that seal that stared at me far too intelligently..

[demiirel]

I'm sure Tengri moved you to treat yourself to some exquisite Mongol cuisine.

[Osweo]

I'm sure Tengri moved you to treat yourself to some exquisite Mongol cuisine.

That's easier in Moscow!

But I did have a fair bit of Омуль. :thumb001:

[demiirel]

That's easier in Moscow!

But I did have a fair bit of Омуль.

Niiice.

[Aino]

Naah, but they do, don't you see. To Tsaatan the Saami have myriad connections. These reindeer people belong to one Reindeerosphere. It's all common for them, their culture. They've been roaming the northern lands for millenia. Why would everybody be saying they are Mongoloid if they're not Mongoloid (albeit an aboriginal pygmy-type Mongoloid)? Look at pre-20th century sources. It's all there. Saami are the mirror image of the Tsaatans.

Reindeer herding is actually quite a new livelihood among the Saami, not older than a few hundred years, and it was never adopted by all groups of Saami.

Finnish folklore contains numerous stories about the Saami, and not one story mentions anything about reindeer. The main livelihood of the Saami as described in Finnish folklore was fishing. The descriptions are verified not only by archaeological findings but also by written tax records, which show that the Saami paid their taxes in fish. They also hunted reindeer, but these were wild reindeer, not domesticated. Additionally, the Saami practised slash-and-burn agriculture, which means they could stay at the same place for a couple of years. Again, this is confirmed by archaeological findings and to some extent by historical records.

[demiirel]

Reindeer herding is actually quite a new livelihood among the Saami, not older than a few hundred years, and it was never adopted by all groups of Saami.

Finnish folklore contains numerous stories about the Saami, and not one story mentions anything about reindeer. The main livelihood of the Saami as described in Finnish folklore was fishing. The descriptions are verified not only by archaeological findings but also by written tax records, which show that the Saami paid their taxes in fish. They also hunted reindeer, but these were wild reindeer, not domesticated. Additionally, the Saami practised slash-and-burn agriculture, which means they could stay at the same place for a couple of years. Again, this is confirmed by archaeological findings and to some extent by historical records.

Well they still belonged to the same Reindeerosphere. Hunting reindeer or herding reindeer, they were still in the reindeerosphere, following the reindeer. I don't know when the Tsaatan domesticated Reindeer. They're only about 500 individuals now. Maybe they domesticated them around the same time as the Sami.

So I still believe the Sami and the Tsaatan are distant relatives. The similarities are too great, even if the Sami have been Europeanized in the past few decades.

[demiirel]

Tsaatan man:

http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000HH5eCW4X5ps/s

Saami man:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Sea_sami_man.jpg

[Pallantides]

Lol what is the point...?



Saami man:
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/3782/carlericswedishnomadsaa.jpg

[Don Brick]

even if the Sami have been Europeanized in the past few decades.

Nonsense. The Saami have always been Europeans no matter what your definition for that is.

[demiirel]

Average Saami at their most Nordic. Still slanty eyed:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/SamiWikibasedCollage.JPG

[demiirel]

The hidden Mongoloid inside all Saami:

http://www.miniih.com/miniiblog/wisdomklub/files/mongolian_child.jpg

[demiirel]

A Mongolian looking no different from a Saami:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2621/3980727536_3d5c864e9c.jpg

[Don Brick]

That´ll do, troll. That´ll do.

http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/thatll-do-pig-thatll-do-146458.jpg?1214465664

[Guapo]

mordid

[demiirel]

Nonsense. The Saami have always been Europeans no matter what your definition for that is.

"Always been Europeans"? But I guess this Saami question is too sensitive an issue. I don't know exactly how you feel about it since I'm not a Finn. So I'll leave this issue for the moment.

[demiirel]

Back to genes.

This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XgZjKeLfI0)shows how genes affect dancing skills. The black girl lags a great deal behind the Chinese and white girl, due to her lack of liveliness and extra long limbs. The white girl is a long way from the black, but lags slightly behind the Chinese, who although not a Mongolian, shows great skill in dancing a traditional dance which she learnt in only a few days. Very flexible and cat-like as I said.

Bruce Lee vs Chuck Norris (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYHZEu7Y7DU)also illustrates the difference in flexibility and cat-like fluidity I was talking about.

[demiirel]

So although we are "slanty eyed losers", we at least got a few things to be proud of, and which whites, including Europeans, should try to outdo us in, if they want to preserve themselves in the racial sense.

[Vasconcelos]

iwGFalTRHDA

[demiirel]

I just "tovsh (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu70RKJOuxY)" (stomp and tap) on your endless accusations. A Mongol has no business being a troll.

[Don Brick]

So although we are "slanty eyed losers", we at least got a few things to be proud of, and which whites, including Europeans, should try to outdo us in, if they want to preserve themselves in the racial sense.

I have a hard time believing any real proud and self-respecting Mongol would call himself a "slanty-eyed loser"...

[demiirel]

Kevjumba (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgV89H4jevI)looks like me, if you want to get an idea of what I approximately look like.

[Vasconcelos]

your endless accusations.

Oh yes, loads of them. :rofl:
It's the first time I called you a troll (or anything else for that matter), but I guess you're starting to get used to it here, eh? Well, there must be a reason for it, I'm sure.

[Foxy]

How in God's name can my post be trolling? Does everything I write have to meet 8769 criteria? Well, name what these 8769 criteria are at least, so that I can navigate in this forum without shipwrecking on my first day. I mean, come on, I've invested much. You're a Finn. I've even praised Finland. What have you got against Mongols?

This forum is for people of European descendence who'd like to preserve European culture and race. I've seen user very skeptist also about the ipothesy that white Americans could be considered fully Europeans, so now explain me: what do you like to do on this forum?

[Foxy]

iwgfaltrhda

ahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!

[Aino]

Well they still belonged to the same Reindeerosphere. Hunting reindeer or herding reindeer, they were still in the reindeerosphere, following the reindeer. I don't know when the Tsaatan domesticated Reindeer. They're only about 500 individuals now. Maybe they domesticated them around the same time as the Sami.

So I still believe the Sami and the Tsaatan are distant relatives. The similarities are too great, even if the Sami have been Europeanized in the past few decades.

How would they be related? Who do you believe were the most recent common ancestors of the Saami and the Tsaatan? What language did these ancestors speak? Where did they live? What Y-DNA and mtDNA haplogroups did they carry?

[poiuytrewq0987]

So what if some people in Eastern Europe have Mongoloid genes? They have it. OK...so? Now what? Am I supposed to pound my chest like a proud gorilla? It's just a bare statement of fact. Not interesting.

And what is so surprising about Europeans believing in their racial superiority? I say, "let them". If it provides them with satisfaction and aesthetic pleasure, then so be it.

I'm really surprised that threads about genetics are the most active.

But anyway, I will look through some of these threads and maybe find some that are interesting.

Study of genetics is not about espousing racial superiority but rather knowledge. :rolleyes: