What do you feel is the minimum percentage for Pride in heritage?

[Senpai]

Let's say someone is physically and culturally Slavic, but they have 5-10% Celtic heritage from a hundred years ago or further,
Is it a reach for them to take pride in their heritage and overpower it in comparison to their 90% Slavic?

Just wanna see the differences in opinion. Don't lecture me :)

[de Burgh II]

+ 10%; ancestral percentages are usually real for a person's ancestry (-ies).

[Peterski]

I'm glad that I'm physically Slavic from the waist down:

https://cf.kizlarsoruyor.com/q5034827/830263d2-6eb6-4430-9c54-dbc64127db7a.jpg

[Alessio]

I think 'this person' is highly confused and should look for a mental health advisor.

[TeutonicBoyars]

This seems like a very New Worlder question and I don't think I can provide a really good answer.
But I can provide an example/insight maybe.

I have a friend in Canada who is very ethnically mixed (European). Talking like maybe 1/8th mix of several different European ancestries. However, he identifies mostly as Irish because his great grandmother was Irish, and that is the traditions/culture/mindset that got passed down the most in his family, despite him being around 10% Irish. But he looks Irish because he looks European, and Europeans in general seem to be closely related to each other, especially relative to the rest of the world around them.

So I think it mostly depends on what you identify with, but from my friend's case I do agree there is a certain threshold that typically has to be present to be able to make itself manifest itself in your mindset - I think de Burgh's answer of 10%+ is a good number.

[Bobby Martnen]

1/8 or higher, unless it's your direct paternal (surname) line, in which case it lasts forever.

Someone 1/64 Chinese with the last name Rankin is no different than any other White person.

Someone 1/64 Chinese with the last name Chong still has a tie to their Chinese heritage

[alnortedelsur]

1/8 or higher, unless it's your direct paternal (surname) line, in which case it lasts forever.

Someone 1/64 Chinese with the last name Rankin is no different than any other White person.

Someone 1/64 Chinese with the last name Chong still has a tie to their Chinese heritage

This would mean that despite of being only 1/16 Italian, I can feel somewhat connected with my Italian background, because I inherited an Italian surname (my first surname) by paternal line :)

[Senpai]

1/8 or higher, unless it's your direct paternal (surname) line, in which case it lasts forever.

Someone 1/64 Chinese with the last name Rankin is no different than any other White person.

Someone 1/64 Chinese with the last name Chong still has a tie to their Chinese heritage

Yeah, my last name is Dutch. My Dutch ancestors all assimilated with others by the 1900's but I still carry that pride because as you said, last name.

[Kriptc06]

1/4, a grandparent

[SvartVarg]

Like said I'd assume this would be more of a colonial [/new world] or people of mixed ancestry question. I mean, personally, pride in ancestry comes from having some cultural understanding. What exactly is 10% Celtic from hundreds of years ago to someone raised in an entirely Slavic culture?

However, as de Burgh said, anything above 10% seems reasonable. Probably closer to 15%. At least that is probably real ancestry and not noise and/or pseudo ancestry due to genetic similarity.

[JohnSmith]

Pride is a dangerous thing if someone has too much of it. By definition it kind of makes someone think their pedigree is better than someone else. But it is not bad as long as someone doesn't get carried away with it.

[Peterski]

Like said I'd assume this would be more of a colonial [/new world] or people of mixed ancestry question. I mean, personally, pride in ancestry comes from having some cultural understanding. What exactly is 10% Celtic from hundreds of years ago to someone raised in an entirely Slavic culture?

However, as de Burgh said, anything above 10% seems reasonable. Probably closer to 15%. At least that is probably real ancestry and not noise and/or pseudo ancestry due to genetic similarity.

People should take pride in personal achievements, while heritage is rather something to cherish than to take pride in. And one should cherish all of their heritage that they are aware of or that affects them, so there is no lower limit.

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

You can only feel pride for a heritage that represent 25% of your ethnic origin, below of that it's insignificant.

[Peterski]

You can only feel pride for a heritage that represent 25% of your ethnic origin, below of that it's insignificant.

So basically you can take pride in your grandpa, but not great-grandpa?

[Senpai]

Svartvarg, No I do not speak Dutch. Yes, I know a lot about the culture however. Is this the moment when you laugh at me for it?

Don't assume this is a loaded question that I'm asking because I feel some inferiority in who I am. I am very grounded in who I am.

[Peterski]

You can only feel pride for a heritage that represent 25% of your ethnic origin

What if someone is a mix of 5 ethnicities/heritages in equal proportions of 20% + 20% + 20% + 20% + 20%.

[Peterski]

Like said I'd assume this would be more of a colonial [/new world] or people of mixed ancestry question. I mean, personally, pride in ancestry comes from having some cultural understanding. What exactly is 10% Celtic from hundreds of years ago to someone raised in an entirely Slavic culture?

However, as de Burgh said, anything above 10% seems reasonable. Probably closer to 15%. At least that is probably real ancestry and not noise and/or pseudo ancestry due to genetic similarity.

Ethnicity is very much like Russian matryoshka. It is a multi-layered thing.

So for example, you can be entirely Slavic and 10% Celtic at the same time.

Slavic is the external layer of the matryoshka doll, while Celtic is deeper down.

[Kriptc06]

What if someone is a mix of 5 heritages in equal proportions of 20% + 20% + 20% + 20% + 20%.

how would that happen, jee what a unlikely scenario.
If you are let's say 3/4 polish and 1/4 spanish, take pride in your spanish granp, now if you are 7/8 polish 1/8 spanish, you will be like anyother pole basically, you can say hey my great-granpa was spanish, but it's unlikely you feel any pride, unless your surname is Ramirez and you are a pole xD

you can take pride in 1/8, but no one will take you seriously, unless it involves your surname.

Also, you loose lots of tradition every gen, so you will likely have nothing spanish at all, just a surname.

[Peterski]

Okay. Another example:

If you are a mix of 8 ethnicities (each great-grandparent was of different ethnicity), 1/8 each, then what?

[Senpai]

how would that happen, jee what a unlikely scenario.
If you are let's say 3/4 polish and 1/4 spanish, take pride in your spanish granp, now if you are 7/8 polish 1/8 spanish, you will be like anyother pole basically, you can say hey my great-granpa was spanish, but it's unlikely you feel any pride, unless your surname is Ramirez and you are a pole xD

you can take pride in 1/8, but no one will take you seriously, unless it involves your surname.

Fuck them taking it seriously. That 1/8 is YOUR blood. I say if you want to take pride in a specific ancestry, as long as it's at least one recent ancestor, or a group of non recent ancestors passing that ancestry, you should be able to wear it with pride, celebrate it, and enjoy the culture.

[Kriptc06]

Okay. Another example:

If you are a mix of 8 ethnicities (each great-grandparent was of different ethnicity), 1/8 each, then what?

damn, xD what a unicorn

[Peterski]

Anyway as I said, ethnicity is like a matryoshka doll. Or like my Ancient Eurogenes K36 Oracle.

I can tell you what was your ancestry 2000 years ago, 4000 years ago, 6000 years ago, etc.

Each timeframe represents subsequent layers of the matryoshka, going deeper and deeper.

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

So basically you can take pride in your grandpa, but not great-grandpa?

Rather than deserving pride, it's about hijacking an identity, for example:
If some here(Argentina) that is 7/8 Italian and 1/8 lebanese, and don't even have an arab surname call himself arab, you know he is full of bulllshit.
Same if the person is 7/8 mestizo and 1/8 italian, and even have an italian surname, nobody sees him as italo-argentine, he is just another mestizo.

[Kriptc06]

Fuck them taking it seriously. That 1/8 is YOUR blood. I say if you want to take pride in a specific ancestry, as long as it's at least one recent ancestor, or a group of non recent ancestors passing that ancestry, you should be able to wear it with pride, celebrate it, and enjoy the culture.
would you take me seriously if I said I was 1/8 swede brazilian and was all into viking stuff?

[Senpai]

would you take me seriously if I said I was 1/8 swede brazilian and was all into viking stuff?

Of course. In fact, I would encourage you to explore that 1/8th ancestry. Would I think you're a dumbass for walking around speaking of your "viking ancestors"? Of course, but I'd never think you're a dumbass for embracing a part of your genome that is inherently YOU.

[Kriptc06]

Of course. In fact, I would encourage you to explore that 1/8th ancestry. Would I think you're a dumbass for walking around speaking of your "viking ancestors"? Of course, but I'd never think you're a dumbass for embracing a part of your genome that is inherently YOU.

xD fair enough

[Peterski]

Let's say someone is physically and culturally Slavic, but they have 5-10% Celtic heritage from a hundred years ago or further,
Is it a reach for them to take pride in their heritage and overpower it in comparison to their 90% Slavic?

Nobody in Southern Poland has a Celtic grandparent*. This is obvious. However, someone might be 25% autosomally Celtic. Which is equivalent of having one Celtic grandparent as far as sheer amount is concerned. But it is very deep ancestry, from times when Celtic culture and language were present in Southern Poland, which was during the 4th-1st centuries BC.

*Unless their grandparent came to Poland in recent times from the Celtic Fringe of the British Isles.

[Senpai]

Nobody in Southern Poland has a Celtic grandparent*. This is obvious. However, someone might be 25% autosomally Celtic. Which is in equivalent of having one Celtic grandparent as far as sheer amount is concerned. But it is very deep ancestry, from times when Celtic culture and language were present in Southern Poland, which was in 4th-1st centuries BC.

*Unless their grandparent came to Poland in recent times from the Celtic Fringe of the British Isles.

Mate, I'm just making a random example, lol..

[Peterski]

Mate, I'm just making a random example, lol..

I know and I responded with an example too.

Generally people interested in Polish history know that Southern Poland used to be settled by Celts. And the presence of a large number of Alpinid phenotypes in this region is sometimes attributed to Celts (of course it is very questionable):

http://archeo.edu.pl/mennictwoceltyckie/Image2876.png

It is believed that this Celtic guy was from Poland, and was from the Celtic Lugian Federation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugius


Lugius (Gaulish Lugus) was a co-leader of the Cimbri tribe during the Cimbrian War, in which the Cimbri won a spectacular victory against the Romans at the Battle of Arausio in 105 BC.[1];[2] He was later defeated and slain along with Boiorix at the Battle of Vercellae in 101 BC. The other Cimbrian chiefs Claodicus and Caesorix were captured.[3]

It would make him the oldest known historical figure born in the area which later became Poland.

Lugius wasn't his real name - this is how the Cimbri called him because he was ethnically Lugian.

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

Of course. In fact, I would encourage you to explore that 1/8th ancestry. Would I think you're a dumbass for walking around speaking of your "viking ancestors"? Of course, but I'd never think you're a dumbass for embracing a part of your genome that is inherently YOU.

Well my mother actually is 1/4 dutch and she bears the last name, which is not that cool when you have to spell it in a public office, therefor am 1/8.
To be honest I fell no conection neither to dutch people, neither to germanic people at all.
The part that is more alien to me is protestantism, and by the way my maternal grandparents were protestant, so I actually experienced that as a living culture.

[Senpai]

Well my mother actually is 1/4 dutch and she bears the last name, which is not that cool when you have to spell it in a public office, therefor am 1/8.
To be honest I fell no conection neither to dutch people, neither to germanic people at all.
The part that is more alien to me is protestantism, and by the way my maternal grandparents were protestant, so I actually experienced that as a living culture.

Makes sense. However, if you were active in your desire to learn about the country and the culture, I don't think any reasonable person would think it odd. As an example, my Dutch ancestry is from one side of my family, however the surname has passed down with each son, and each father has enjoyed the culture and taken pride in it, even though with each generation it gets further and further away from how it started. I feel THAT is the definition of pride.

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

What if someone is a mix of 5 ethnicities/heritages in equal proportions of 20% + 20% + 20% + 20% + 20%.

5 grandparents? how is that possible? unless your granny had a gang bang.:p

[Peterski]

5 grandparents? how is that possible?

No. For example 16 gg-grandparents, belonging to 5 ethnicities x 3 gg-grandparents each (and one more).

It gives you roughly 20% per each of 5 ethnicities.


unless your granny had a gang bang.:p

LOL

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

Makes sense. However, if you were active in your desire to learn about the country and the culture, I don't think any reasonable person would think it odd. As an example, my Dutch ancestry is from one side of my family, however the surname has passed down with each son, and each father has enjoyed the culture and taken pride in it, even though with each generation it gets further and further away from how it started. I feel THAT is the definition of pride.

I learned some things about dutch culture talking with exchange students from the netherlands and flanders, really nice people to be honest.
Here protestants used to marry inside their religious communities, so groups like the
Scotch-Irish, bóers, scandinavians and german lutherans formed their own cultural communities.

[Peterski]

Rather than deserving pride, it's about hijacking an identity, for example:
If some here(Argentina) that is 7/8 Italian and 1/8 lebanese, and don't even have an arab surname call himself arab, you know he is full of bulllshit.

Not necessarily! :)

If his Italian is mainly from Sicily, then he is more Arab than just 1/8, because Sicilians are partially MENA.

But I get your point.

[Mingle]

Yeah, my last name is Dutch. My Dutch ancestors all assimilated with others by the 1900's but I still carry that pride because as you said, last name.

Why did you put 'Frisian' instead of 'Dutch' for your ethnicity?

[spik]

I think 12.5% of SSA Ancestry is enough to consider yourself black.

[Iloko]

2% is the bare minimum

[Senpai]

Why did you put 'Frisian' instead of 'Dutch' for your ethnicity?

Because my ancestors that came to New Netherlands were all Frisian.

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

No. For example 16 gg-grandparents, belonging to 5 ethnicities x 3 gg-grandparents each (and one more).

It gives you roughly 20% per each of 5 ethnicities.



LOL
One ethnicity will be represented by 4 gg-grandparents, assuming that THAT one's ethnicity gave you your last name, that would be your main, and by default licit, ethnicity.

Also it's not the same thing being 4/8 british(1/8 from each country in the islands) an 2/8 german, 2/8 norwegian. that being 1/8 lebanese, japanese, angolan, maya, chinese, polish, lithuanian and mizrahi jewish.

[Peterski]

Because my ancestors that came to New Netherlands were all Frisian.

So you have colonial ancestry from New Netherlands? I have a match on GEDmatch with a Quackenbush, I checked his GEDCOM and lots of his ancestry is colonial from New Netherlands. Perhaps you also have a match with him.

[Senpai]

So you have colonial ancestry from New Netherlands? I have a match on GEDmatch with a Quackenbush, I checked his GEDCOM and lots of his ancestry is colonial from New Netherlands. Perhaps you also have a match with him.

Yes, I do. My direct paternal ancestor was a New Netherlander from East Frisia. Perhaps I am.
Van Hoorn/Horn, Baerts, Dircks, Struddles, Van Zandt, Claessen among others.

[Senpai]

So you have colonial ancestry from New Netherlands? I have a match on GEDmatch with a Quackenbush, I checked his GEDCOM and lots of his ancestry is colonial from New Netherlands. Perhaps you also have a match with him.

I will check!

[Congolese Rice]

For me 2 be feel connected 2 a part of my heritage it should be higher than 10% otherwise it's nonexistant 2 me, except for my native american which is 2.30% but it's there so i guess i'm proud of that

[Leto]

To me if you are 3/4 X, you are basically fully X in the general sense. Of course, one may argue that such a person is still genetically 'not fully X', but IRL few people would pay attention to such nuances. Culturally such a person is definitely 100% X. However, nowadays there are people who would deliberately focus on a small 'exotic' part of their ancestry in order to belong to some kind of 'minority'. Hey, I'm 1/8 Jamaican, I'm not really English, white people oppress my people! That's just preposterous.
I would say that you need to have a least one grandparent of a certain ethnicity to really be connected to that ethnicity. Anything below 25% is too small to identify with seriously.

[Bobby Martnen]

To me if you are 3/4 X, you are basically fully X in the general sense. Of course, one may argue that such a person is still genetically 'not fully X', but IRL few people would pay attention to such nuances. Culturally such a person is definitely 100% X. However, nowadays there are people who would deliberately focus on a small 'exotic' part of their ancestry in order to belong to some kind of 'minority'. Hey, I'm 1/8 Jamaican, I'm not really English, white people oppress my people! That's just preposterous.
I would say that you need to have a least one grandparent of a certain ethnicity to really be connected to that ethnicity. Anything below 25% is too small to identify with seriously.

Someone who is 3/4 German and 1/4 Nigerian will never look fully German

[Senpai]

1/8 or higher, unless it's your direct paternal (surname) line, in which case it lasts forever.

Someone 1/64 Chinese with the last name Rankin is no different than any other White person.

Someone 1/64 Chinese with the last name Chong still has a tie to their Chinese heritage

Morrissey is not my last name. My last name is van Horn

[Blanka]

People should take pride in personal achievements, while heritage is rather something to cherish than to take pride in. And one should cherish all of their heritage that they are aware of or that affects them, so there is no lower limit.
This. I don't have any ethnicity above 1/3 - the rest is not even above 20% - because my parents are so mixed up themselves. I'm really just made up of quite many pie slices of various ethnicities. I find that rather interesting, but it comes with one "problem". I don't fit anywhere. I can claim no nation as mine if DNA is taken into account.

I didn't grow up in Finland from where I have my biggest share, which is at some 28-33%, depending on who you ask. I don't speak the language (or languages, since part of that heritage is Lantalaiset/Kveeni/Meänmaalaiset, and they speak their own Finnic language). It's a country/region that I've been cut off from and I have very little in common with them in general. But my native language and the country I grew up in isn't even in the top three ethnicities. Some around here would not even recognise it as an ethnicity I have any "right" to.

The common denominator is that everyone in my family as far back as the paper trail takes me has been very poor, some also belonging to groups that back when were stigmatised, which is why they even tried to hide who they were to their children, changed names and languages. They all tried to outrun poverty by moving someplace else to change things around. They knew no borders, nor other barriers.

On occasion I feel a bit rootless, but TBH I think it's a lot more interesting to have all these threads to pull on than if I didn't have such a mixed heritage. It's fun, and I cherish it, but it's not a whole lot to feel any pride about, because I didn't have anything to do with it. It was all just passed on to me. I thank all my ancestors for being in the right place at the right time. Without them I would not exist.

[dperucca]

I think that you can have pride in whatever you want. If you are >5% something though it starts it get silly.

[cosmoo]

Taking pride in being a mutt is beyond retarded. The first thing coming to my mind after reading this are Yankshits who are dominantly Limey, but with dozens of different ancestries down the line, taking pride in history of Europe as a whole, despite them being descended from the lowest gutter trash Europe had to offer.

The way I see it, you can not take pride even in your national history if your own ancestors by direct paternal lineages that you know of did not prove themselves with deeds and live up to the standards of those you deem great, and if you yourself do not uphold those same ideals with your own demeanor.

[Leto]

Someone who is 3/4 German and 1/4 Nigerian will never look fully German
So what? Still 75% of his ancestry is German. Especially if he was born in German, speaks German, etc.

[Leto]

despite them being descended from the lowest gutter trash Europe had to offer.

This is not correct at all. Even now Americans are less cucked than Western Europeans.

[Pigling]

Most present-day folks are mixed, so there's no point in taking pride for ethnic origin.

For example, Irish can look Iberian (swarthy), while German can look Irish/Celtic (red-haired and freckled).

Not to mention ethnicity have nothing to do with personality.

[Leto]

Most present-day folks are mixed, so there's no point in taking pride for ethnic origin.

For example, Irish can look Iberian (swarthy), while German can look Irish/Celtic (red-haired and freckled).

Not to mention ethnicity have nothing to do with personality.
Lol, if an Iberian is blonde and an Irishman is dark-haired, that does not mean they are not Iberian and Irish, respectively. Most ethnic groups have natural variations. Your statement doesn't make sense. And one doesn't have to be 100% something going back to a dozen of generations to identify with their country and/or culture.

[spik]

So what? Still 75% of his ancestry is German. Especially if he was born in German, speaks German, etc.

Well, if that person feels more Black who are we to blame them.

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

Of course. In fact, I would encourage you to explore that 1/8th ancestry. Would I think you're a dumbass for walking around speaking of your "viking ancestors"? Of course, but I'd never think you're a dumbass for embracing a part of your genome that is inherently YOU.

you made me remember my german language teacher, who had a swedish grandmother, and now wears a mjolnir, and is crazy about the "esoteric power of runes" and things by the like, despite she has an italian surname and looks italian.:biggrin:

[Bobby Martnen]

Morrissey is not my last name. My last name is van Horn

Thanks for clarifying - why do you use Morrissey as your soundcloud name?

[Bobby Martnen]

So what? Still 75% of his ancestry is German. Especially if he was born in German, speaks German, etc.

He's not indistinguishable from Germans.

And most immigrants to Germany are Muslims who are not assimilating at all, and should be deported

[Senpai]

Thanks for clarifying - why do you use Morrissey as your soundcloud name?

Just artist alias for sad music, because I love the Smiths. lol

[Senpai]

you made me remember my german language teacher, who had a swedish grandmother, and now wears a mjolnir, and is crazy about the "esoteric power of runes" and things by the like, despite she has an italian surname and looks italian.:biggrin:

hahahaha, oh shit.

Feel bad for the guy.

[Not a Cop]

This. I don't have any ethnicity above 1/3 - the rest is not even above 20% - because my parents are so mixed up themselves. I'm really just made up of quite many pie slices of various ethnicities. I find that rather interesting, but it comes with one "problem". I don't fit anywhere. I can claim no nation as mine if DNA is taken into account.

I didn't grow up in Finland from where I have my biggest share, which is at some 28-33%, depending on who you ask. I don't speak the language (or languages, since part of that heritage is Lantalaiset/Kveeni/Meänmaalaiset, and they speak their own Finnic language). It's a country/region that I've been cut off from and I have very little in common with them in general. But my native language and the country I grew up in isn't even in the top three ethnicities. Some around here would not even recognise it as an ethnicity I have any "right" to.

The common denominator is that everyone in my family as far back as the paper trail takes me has been very poor, some also belonging to groups that back when were stigmatised, which is why they even tried to hide who they were to their children, changed names and languages. They all tried to outrun poverty by moving someplace else to change things around. They knew no borders, nor other barriers.

On occasion I feel a bit rootless, but TBH I think it's a lot more interesting to have all these threads to pull on than if I didn't have such a mixed heritage. It's fun, and I cherish it, but it's not a whole lot to feel any pride about, because I didn't have anything to do with it. It was all just passed on to me. I thank all my ancestors for being in the right place at the right time. Without them I would not exist.

Being Finn in Sweden is not that i consider to be "exotic" to be honest, from my experience it's just like being an Ukrainian in Russia.

[Peterski]

Being Finn in Sweden is not that i consider to be "exotic" to be honest, from my experience it's just like being an Ukrainian in Russia.

Ukrainian and Russian are both East Slavic languages, while Swedish and Finnish are not mutually intelligible. It makes it a slightly different experience even if it is not exotic due to historical presence of a Swedish minority.

[Dandelion]

People should take pride in personal achievements, while heritage is rather something to cherish than to take pride in. And one should cherish all of their heritage that they are aware of or that affects them, so there is no lower limit.

As a Pole you probably also feel pride being of the same culture is the guys in this video. It's all in the small things.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUTYg0YBm1I

Still pride of heritage, but over the achievement of your countrymen. No idea why the Russian music. ;)

[Peterski]

As a Pole you probably also feel pride in this video.

Yes I'm happy that our government has created this Volunteer Home Guard (Ochotnicza Armia Krajowa):

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/01/26/ukraine-crisis-leads-poland-to-implement-46000-national-guard-force/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_Defence_Force_(Poland)

https://histmag.org/ochotnicza-armia-krajowa-czyli-home-guard-po-polsku-12677

[Peterski]

As a Pole you probably also feel pride being of the same culture is the guys in this video.

They are from Eastern Poland, in my part of Poland formation of this Home Guard has not yet started:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Harmonogram_tworzenia_WOT.jpg

[Leto]

He's not indistinguishable from Germans.
I didn't say one needed to be literally indistinguishable to be assimilated culturally. If someone is 75% German, he can rightfully identify as German.


And most immigrants to Germany are Muslims who are not assimilating at all, and should be deported
Who's talking about Islam? Yes, they are very bad at assimilating and there should definitely be some peaceful remigration from Europe if it doesn't want to turn into a complete "shithole" (c) aka Islamistan, but these things are offtopic right here.

[Leto]

Ukrainian and Russian are both East Slavic languages, while Swedish and Finnish are not mutually intelligible. It makes it a slightly different experience even if it is not exotic due to historical presence of a Swedish minority.
And what's more, Russian is probably more commonly used in Ukraine than Ukrainian. Needless to say Ukrainians in Russia are all Russian-speaking.

[CertifiedCracker]

Be proud of what you are, not what your 3rd great grandpa was.

[Peterski]

Most of self-identified German-Americans for example are less than 75% German.

Most of them are mixed with Non-German ethnicities.

The same applies also to Irish-Americans who are rarely 100% Irish these days.

[CertifiedCracker]

Most of self-identified German-Americans for example are less than 75% German.

Most of them are mixed with Non-German ethnicities.

The same applies also to Irish-Americans who are rarely 100% Irish these days.

Its not really thought about. Like no one cares if you happen to be a quarter German. Im 100% Old Stock, but I mean, its more like so what? Ancestry is meaningless. Like I wouldnt say my family is from England, id say a state.

[Slavic Italian]

damn, xD what a unicorn

Someone holler?

[Bobby Martnen]

I didn't say one needed to be literally indistinguishable to be assimilated culturally. If someone is 75% German, he can rightfully identify as German.

Fair enough

[Slavic Italian]

As a Pole you probably also feel pride being of the same culture is the guys in this video. It's all in the small things.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUTYg0YBm1I

Still pride of heritage, but over the achievement of your countrymen. No idea why the Russian music. ;)

Things like this make me proud to be Polish. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ-SNl914MY&t=6s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q88AkN1hNYM

[Slavic Italian]

Taking pride in being a mutt is beyond retarded. The first thing coming to my mind after reading this are Yankshits who are dominantly Limey, but with dozens of different ancestries down the line, taking pride in history of Europe as a whole, despite them being descended from the lowest gutter trash Europe had to offer.

The way I see it, you can not take pride even in your national history if your own ancestors by direct paternal lineages that you know of did not prove themselves with deeds and live up to the standards of those you deem great, and if you yourself do not uphold those same ideals with your own demeanor.

A serb calling people gutter trash. The irony.

[TEUTORIGOS]

I dunno, AncestryDNA says I am :

52% Ireland, Scotland, Wales
37% British (Anglo-Saxon)
6% Scandinavian

and MyHeritage says I am 40% English which confirms the
37% from AncestryDNA. The Scandinavian is not noise it just comes from my British Isles heritage so I am Celto-Germanic.

Most so called 'Celtic' people from the British Isles e.g. Ulster Irish, Scottish and Welsh are technically Celto-Germanic but identify as 'Celts' to differentiate themselves from the English.

So most people with my ancestry will simply identify as Celtic where I identify as Celto-Germanic.

[TEUTORIGOS]

Most of self-identified German-Americans for example are less than 75% German.

Most of them are mixed with Non-German ethnicities.

The same applies also to Irish-Americans who are rarely 100% Irish these days.

On paper I am Irish, English, Scottish and German but AncestryDNA says my 'genetic community' is likely Ulster Irish. I am American from New York and have never been to Ireland. I dunno, I guess Celtic genes are strong LOL.

[Peterski]

On paper I am Irish, English, Scottish and German but AncestryDNA says my 'genetic community' is likely Ulster Irish. I am American from New York and have never been to Ireland. I dunno, I guess Celtic genes are strong LOL.

Ulster Irish are like a mix of Irish, Scottish and English (due to the Plantantion of Ulster), so this makes sense. Also there is a complex history of migrations between North Ireland and Scotland. At first, Gaels migrated from Ireland to Scotland and established the Dal Riata kingdom (which gave rise to Scotland). Then Scots migrated back from Scotland to Ulster in Early Modern times. How German are you, what percent of your ancestry?

[JohnSmith]

Americans are all mixed up. Also, it depends on the region you live.

[Profileid]

Look at Turks. They're only proud of that 3% asian.

[JohnSmith]

Look at Turks. They're only proud of that 3% asian.

I think any percent you can be proud of and claim.

[Peterski]

Look at Turks. They're only proud of that 3% asian.

Yeah they should implement an immigration policy focused on encouraging immigration of people from regions which have more Turkic DNA, such as Central Asia, Yakutia, etc. Make Turkey Proto-Turkic again!: :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ZZWrAAxiQ

[TEUTORIGOS]

Ulster Irish are like a mix of Irish, Scottish and English (due to the Plantantion of Ulster), so this makes sense. Also there is a complex history of migrations between North Ireland and Scotland. At first, Gaels migrated from Ireland to Scotland and established the Dal Riata kingdom (which gave rise to Scotland). Then Scots migrated back from Scotland to Ulster in Early Modern times. How German are you, what percent of your ancestry?

Yeah, I know that is why I feel like a different breed from the Southern Irish. I feel like SouthWest or West Scottish are the same tribe via Dal Riada. I don't think we should be seen as an "out-Group" and be excluded from other people included in the WASP category e.g. Dutch , Scottish, Welsh. I am not even Catholic I am a Deist.

I am 25% German(ic) from Alsace-Lorraine but genetic tests just pick it up as part of my Anglo-Saxon admixture probably.

[Peterski]

Is your Alsace-Lorraine side only German or also some French mixed in?

[Magnolia]

To be honest I don't understand how somebody can be proud of own heritage. Yes, one can like own roots, culture, be confident with nation/ethnicity he/she was born in, but to be proud of it? Wtf?
It reminds me of a son who isn't successful in anything/in fact it is unnecessary person but everywhere claims he is a son of a famous father.

According to me - real pride is about own life results/progress/success/etc. about anything else.

Everytime when I hear somebody is proud of own heritage - the warning light flashes - and associations like "that person feels like nobody" come to my mind.


Anyway as it goes for your topic, no percentages are required. One can like a culture and has close to a culture despite has very small amount of their blood or hasn't their blood at all. It is more about feelings and interests than about anything else.

[JohnSmith]

Yeah, I know that is why I feel like a different breed from the Southern Irish. I feel like SouthWest or West Scottish are the same tribe via Dal Riada. I don't think we should be seen as an "out-Group" and be excluded from other people included in the WASP category e.g. Dutch , Scottish, Welsh. I am not even Catholic I am a Deist.

I am 25% German(ic) from Alsace-Lorraine but genetic tests just pick it up as part of my Anglo-Saxon admixture probably.

Any Protestant British descended person is pretty much a WASP. Doesn't matter if they are Irish or Welsh. They are all from the British Isles.

[JohnSmith]

To be honest I don't understand how somebody can be proud of own heritage. Yes, one can like own roots, culture, be confident with nation/ethnicity he/she was born in, but to be proud of it? Wtf?
It reminds me of a son who isn't successful in anything/in fact it is unnecessary person but everywhere claims he is a son of a famous father.

According to me - real pride is about own life results/progress/success/etc. about anything else.

Everytime when I hear somebody is proud of own heritage - the warning light flashes - and associations like "that person feels like nobody" come to my mind.


Anyway as it goes for your topic, no percentages are required. One can like a culture and has close to a culture despite has very small of their blood or hasn't their blood. It is more about feelings and interests than about anything else.

I agree with you. Having too much pride is really not good, as the definition makes one think they are better than someone else due to their pedigree.

I think how someone feel and identify matters and where they grew up.

[TEUTORIGOS]

Is your Alsace-Lorraine side only German or also some French mixed in?

I dunno, my grandmother basically looks like a SouthWest German kraut. People from Alsace-Lorraine are like the ethnic Germans of France. Alsatians are like Swabian and Lorraine is Frankish Germanic. There was probably some French admixture but there is a history of French Huguenots in Ulster via the plantation so that should not matter.

Alsatian is a high German dialect. There is a reason why Germany was always fighting with France to annex Alsace-Lorraine.

[TEUTORIGOS]

Any Protestant British descended person is pretty much a WASP. Doesn't matter if they are Irish or Welsh. They are all from the British Isles.

I am Deist like Thomas Jefferson. I consider Jefferson to have been a WASP even though he was not Christian.

[JohnSmith]

I am Deist like Thomas Jefferson. I consider Jefferson to have been a WASP even though he was not Christian.

I wonder how many of these religious preachers out there these days even even that many founding fathers were Deist.

[Senpai]

Look at Turks. They're only proud of that 3% asian.

Is that really the average mix?

[Profileid]

Is that really the average mix?

yep

[Senpai]

yep

can you show me some results, or link me?

[Fractal]

Americans are all mixed up. Also, it depends on the region you live.

Which is why you even need to ask this question.

If you are 100% of one ethnicity like I am, race is irrelevant to your day to day like unlike it is with Whites, Blacks, and Latinos in the USA.

[Profileid]

can you show me some results, or link me?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?231231-%26%23304%3Bzmir-Turk-GEDmatch-results

[TEUTORIGOS]

I wonder how many of these religious preachers out there these days even even that many founding fathers were Deist.

The evidence is that Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Benjamin Franklin and John Adams can best be described as deists and that Alexander Hamilton, George Washington and others are a bit harder to pigeonhole as they were mostly quiet about their beliefs

[TEUTORIGOS]

Which is why you even need to ask this question.

If you are 100% of one ethnicity like I am, race is irrelevant to your day to day like unlike it is with Whites, Blacks, and Latinos in the USA.

I do not identify as white. I know my tribe. My tribe is Ulster Irish and West Scottish Celto-Germanic. What good is identifying as 'white' if Slavs and Southern Europeans are included ?

[Peterski]

Is that really the average mix?

Hungarians are a bit like Turks. Proud of their Magyar heritage but they are mostly Non-Magyar.

Or Indians who identify as Aryan such as Fractal. Their % of original Aryan descent is also small.

[Fractal]

I do not identify as white. I know my tribe. My tribe is Ulster Irish and West Scottish Celto-Germanic. What good is identifying as 'white' if Slavs and Southern Europeans are included ?

hahaha agreed.

Saying "Scottish-American" sounds better than saying your ethnicity is White American.

[Peterski]

Indians are about as Aryan as Turks from Turkey are Mongoloid.

[TEUTORIGOS]

To be honest I don't understand how somebody can be proud of own heritage. Yes, one can like own roots, culture, be confident with nation/ethnicity he/she was born in, but to be proud of it? Wtf?
It reminds me of a son who isn't successful in anything/in fact it is unnecessary person but everywhere claims he is a son of a famous father.

According to me - real pride is about own life results/progress/success/etc. about anything else.

Everytime when I hear somebody is proud of own heritage - the warning light flashes - and associations like "that person feels like nobody" come to my mind.


Anyway as it goes for your topic, no percentages are required. One can like a culture and has close to a culture despite has very small amount of their blood or hasn't their blood at all. It is more about feelings and interests than about anything else.

Ethnicity and race is destiny more or less. For instance, the amount of blacks that have what it takes to be rocket scientists is probably the same amount as Vietnamese who are tall enough and have enough skill to play in the NBA. The French are good at Art and the Germans engineering.Not all groups are equally good at all things. East Asians will continue to win Olympic diving events, and runners of West African ancestry will continue to win the 100-meter dash. Similarly, nobody will ever be able to devise a test of knowledge or understanding on which groups with different population-genetic histories all record identical statistical profiles. You can have meritocracy, or you can have equality of outcomes by ancestry-group, but you can’t have both. Which one do you want? It seems we have already made up our minds.

[Fractal]

Indians are about as Aryan as Turks from Turkey are Mongoloid.

At least we're not stereotyped as being plumbers.

[Peterski]

Poles are not Aryans, period.

I never said that we are. But neither are Indians.

Pamiri Tajiks are way closer to that than Indians.

[zhaoyun]

Probably a quarter to be credible. When you are a quarter something, you still have a grandparent who is 100% that ethnicity, so there is living link.

[Fractal]

I never said that we are. But neither are Indians.

Pamiri Tajiks are way closer to that than Indians.

What does this have to do with what I said? To me ethnicity is more important than race.

And sorry but the term Aryan is an ethnolinguistic term, and nothing more.

Look, the Limeys prefer us in the UK over you Eastern Europeans


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gisGwuhxSuw

[Peterski]

Ethnicity and race is destiny more or less. For instance, the amount of blacks that have what it takes to be rocket scientists is probably the same amount as Vietnamese who are tall enough and have enough skill to play in the NBA. The French are good at Art and the Germans engineering.Not all groups are equally good at all things. East Asians will continue to win Olympic diving events, and runners of West African ancestry will continue to win the 100-meter dash. Similarly, nobody will ever be able to devise a test of knowledge or understanding on which groups with different population-genetic histories all record identical statistical profiles. You can have meritocracy, or you can have equality of outcomes by ancestry-group, but you can’t have both. Which one do you want? It seems we have already made up our minds.

But there is also epigenetics which will cause the downfall of the degenerated U.S., regardless of its racial makeup:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?210060-Gene%96culture-coevolution

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-07-epigenetics-inherit-genes.html

Also the character of the population can evolve due to soft selection on just some genes, without changing its "race":

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?228419-Recent-Selection-For-Gentleness-In-Puerto-Rican-quot-Killer-Bees-quot

https://phys.org/news/2007-12-humans-evolving-faster-alike.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfQ2mqpPDSQ

[Bobby Martnen]

I dunno, my grandmother basically looks like a SouthWest German kraut. People from Alsace-Lorraine are like the ethnic Germans of France. Alsatians are like Swabian and Lorraine is Frankish Germanic. There was probably some French admixture but there is a history of French Huguenots in Ulster via the plantation so that should not matter.

Alsatian is a high German dialect. There is a reason why Germany was always fighting with France to annex Alsace-Lorraine.

Alsace-Lorraine is rightfully German, though, by virtue of ethnicity. It's a complete travesty that France has it.

[Peterski]

Puerto Rican killer bees are racially African (and descended from African bees, without any local admixture), but behaviorally very different. They have evolved gentle behavior and lost their aggressiveness. The same applies to modern Swedes who are racially the same as Vikings but in terms of genes determining behavior they have changed since the Viking Age.

There has been soft selection on cuck genes in Sweden over the past several generations (at least).

[Magnolia]

I agree with you. Having too much pride is really not good, as the definition makes one think they are better than someone else due to their pedigree.

I think how someone feel and identify matters and where they grew up.

On the first sight - it can't be so visible there is a deep feeling of own uncertainty and inadequacy behind that pride of own nation/roots if one comes from a successful society; but that attitude is typical for many people who comes from societies that objectively aren't above average in anything.

Conclusion is - people are everywhere the same in core, they want to be important, successful, they want to be respected, they want to be even admired, and of course loved. And if they lack most of these things on personal level, they feel like nobody, they are insecure, ... they keep trying to find an anchor that will help them to feed their malnourished needs... nationalism/pride of heritage/radicalism are typical manifestations....

[Peterski]

Alsace-Lorraine is rightfully German, though, by virtue of ethnicity. It's a complete travesty that France has it.

Lorraine was never majority German. Only Alsace was. But nowadays only old people speak German in Alsace:

German-speakers (%) among the population of Alsace by year:

1900: 95%
1946: 91%
1997: 63%
2001: 61%
2012: 43%

Percent of German-speakers in Alsace by age group as of 2012:

60+ - 74%
45-59 - 54%
30-44 - 24%
18-29 - 12%
3-17 - 3%

As of 2012, only 3% of inhabitants of Alsace aged 3-17 could speak German.

Source:

http://www.olcalsace.org/fr/observer-et-veiller/le-dialecte-en-chiffres

[Bobby Martnen]

Lorraine was never majority German. Only Alsace was. But nowadays only old people speak German in Alsace:

German-speakers (%) among the population of Alsace by year:

1900: 95%
1946: 91%
1997: 63%
2001: 61%
2012: 43%

Percent of German-speakers in Alsace by age group as of 2012:

60+ - 74%
45-59 - 54%
30-44 - 24%
18-29 - 12%
3-17 - 3%

As of 2012, only 3% of inhabitants of Alsace aged 3-17 could speak German.

Source:

http://www.olcalsace.org/fr/observer-et-veiller/le-dialecte-en-chiffres

That's because of forcible Frenchification - they're still Germans, just like Irish people are still Irish even though they were forcibly Anglicized

[Peterski]

Frenchization is almost complete.


That's because of forcible Frenchification - they're still Germans, just like Irish people are still Irish even though they were forcibly Anglicized

I know one Alsatian from another forum who identifies as French.

So I think that it is not forcible Frenchization but voluntary Frenchization (for the most part at least).

As for the Irish - being Catholic is what helped preserve their distinct identity despite the loss of language.

[Fractal]

Lorraine was never majority German. Only Alsace was. But nowadays only old people speak German in Alsace:

German-speakers (%) among the population of Alsace by year:

1900: 95%
1946: 91%
1997: 63%
2001: 61%
2012: 43%

Percent of German-speakers in Alsace by age group as of 2012:

60+ - 74%
45-59 - 54%
30-44 - 24%
18-29 - 12%
3-17 - 3%

As of 2012, only 3% of inhabitants of Alsace aged 3-17 could speak German.

Source:

http://www.olcalsace.org/fr/observer-et-veiller/le-dialecte-en-chiffres

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/article_small/public/thumbnails/image/2017/12/19/16/fishery.jpg

[Bobby Martnen]

Frenchization is almost complete.



I know one Alsatian from another forum who identifies as French.

So I think that it is not forcible Frenchization but voluntary Frenchization (for the most part at least).

As for the Irish - being Catholic is what helped preserve their distinct identity despite the loss of language.

When 2/5 of the people still speak German, it's not almost complete, especially given that older people are more socially and economically powerful.

I've heard of Irish people who call themselves WASPS - Alsatians are still German

The French government forcibly Frenchified the area - even if most residents are okay with it now, that doesn't mean it wasn't forced on them in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

[Peterski]

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/article_small/public/thumbnails/image/2017/12/19/16/fishery.jpg

https://media.buzz.ie/uploads/2016/06/Sign-in-London-reading-No-009.jpg

https://media.buzz.ie/uploads/2016/06/Sign-in-London-reading-No-009.jpg

[Peterski]

It's interesting that they distinguished between Polish fishermen and Eastern Bloc fishermen.

Looks like they are acknowledging that Poland is in Central Europe.

[Skjaldemjøden]

In my opinion 25% (one grandparent) would be the minimum, and only if this heritage was actually passed unto to you. No "reclaiming" heritage if you were raised in a different culture - it is either inherited or not. That is why, for example, I find all sorts of people who "reconnect" with pagan roots that were severed a millennium ago utterly ridiculous.

[Fractal]

https://media.buzz.ie/uploads/2016/06/Sign-in-London-reading-No-009.jpg

https://media.buzz.ie/uploads/2016/06/Sign-in-London-reading-No-009.jpg

Indians should use this sign for their hotels in Boston.

hahaha.

[Peterski]

When 2/5 of the people still speak German, it's not almost complete, especially given that older people are more socially and economically powerful.

I've heard of Irish people who call themselves WASPS - Alsatians are still German

The French government forcibly Frenchified the area - even if most residents are okay with it now, that doesn't mean it wasn't forced on them in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

But when we talked about Germanization of some Polish areas in the 1800s and early 1900s, you were okay with that.

That was also pretty much forced, even if the inhabitants were okay with that by the time of the Inter-War period.

But religion also played a role. Lutheran Polish-speakers were mostly "won for Germanness" simply due to being Lutheran. For similar reason in Ireland forcible change of language did not make local Catholics identify as English.

But Alsatians are Catholic. And they never really identified with the Prussian, Lutheran version of Germanness.

Maybe if Austria united Germany instead of Prussia, Alsatians would still be German patriots today.

[TEUTORIGOS]

https://media.buzz.ie/uploads/2016/06/Sign-in-London-reading-No-009.jpg

https://media.buzz.ie/uploads/2016/06/Sign-in-London-reading-No-009.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pIlDRDdv8k

[Fractal]

On the first sight - it can't be so visible there is a deep feeling of own uncertainty and inadequacy behind that pride of own nation/roots if one comes from a successful society; but that attitude is typical for many people who comes from societies that objectively aren't above average in anything.

Conclusion is - people are everywhere the same in core, they want to be important, successful, they want to be respected, they want to be even admired, and of course loved. And if they lack most of these things on personal level, they feel like nobody, they are insecure, ... they keep trying to find an anchor that will help them to feed their malnourished needs... nationalism/pride of heritage/radicalism are typical manifestations....

Indians put up this sign at their hotels in the UK.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02531/eastern-europeans_2531904k.jpg

[TEUTORIGOS]

But when we talked about Germanization of some Polish areas in the 1800s and early 1900s, you were okay with that.

That was also pretty much forced, even if the inhabitants were okay with that by the time of the Inter-War period.

But religion also played a role. Lutheran Polish-speakers were mostly "won for Germannness" simply due to being Lutheran. For similar reason in Ireland forcible change of language did not make local Catholics identify as English


The Scottish speak a dialect of English and do not identify as English either. The genetic difference between the Western Scottish and Ulster Irish is zero to negligible.

[Peterski]

If you look at Brandenburg and Sachsen, both regions have a Slavic minority - the Sorbs of Lusatia. But Sorbs in Sachsen are Catholic, while Sorbs in Brandenburg are Lutheran. Which is why Brandenburgian Sorbs are on the verge of extinction today because they are more likely to identify as Germans while Sorbian nationalism is stronger in Sachsen.

[Peterski]

The Scottish speak a dialect of English and do not identify as English either. The genetic difference between the Western Scottish and Ulster Irish is zero to negligible.

In the Scottish referendum of 2014 Catholics were more likely to be for independence than Protestants:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1l3F6n8i-A#t=9m26s

"We are Scottish, but we are British first. We are Protestants and Celtic supporters are Roman Catholics. They are for independence. They are for the Pope and Rome, not for Britain. We're for Britain. Queen and country."

[Peterski]

^^^
And ironically these people are mostly descended from Gaelic-speaking highlanders who migrated to Glasgow.

They are just like Lutheran Masurians who would say "We are Polish, but we are German first" if you asked them.

Or if you asked them before 1871, they would say "We are Polish, but we are [East] Prussian first".

[TEUTORIGOS]

If you look at Brandenburg and Sachsen, both regions have a Slavic minority - the Sorbs of Lusatia. But Sorbs in Sachsen are Catholic, while Sorbs in Brandenburg are Lutheran. Which is why Brandenburgian Sorbs are on the verge of extinction today because they are more likely to identify as Germans while Sorbian nationalism is stronger in Sachsen.

Dude, the average Ulster Scot is 48.49% Irish, Scottish, Welsh and the average Ulster Irishman is 51.9% Irish, Scottish , Welsh. If the Ulster Irish converted to Presbyterianism rather than Catholicism that would not really make them go extinct since that is less than a 4% difference. The Southern Irish are a different case.

I am telling the Ulster Irish and Western Scots are the same tribe and that religion is stupid.

[Mingle]

The Scottish speak a dialect of English and do not identify as English either. The genetic difference between the Western Scottish and Ulster Irish is zero to negligible.

That's because they had a separate kingdom that was distinct from England at the time the Act of Union happened.

A lot of people of the Scottish Lowlands (southern part) used to identify as English for a long time before they were conquered. When Malcolm III of Scotland conquered that region from England, it was seen as an English territory that was politically part of Scotland. During the period that Middle English was spoken, the people of the Scottish Lowlands (not all of the highlands but a large bulk) wrote in Latin 'terra Anglorum et in regno Scottorum' which translates to 'a land of the English yet in the Kingdom of the Scots'. The Gaelic Scots used to even call them "Saxons" for a while after they stopped identifying as English (often as an insult) and the English-speaking Scots would retort by calling the Gaelic-speakers "Irish".

Btw, Southeast Scotland was NEVER Gaelic-speaking in it's entire history.

Southwest Scots are likely more similar (or about as similar) to Northwest Englishmen than they are to the Irish. There was a lot of intermixing and border crossing in that region: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Reivers

Southwest Scotland also had some Anglo-Saxon influence IIRC. The pre-Gaelic pre-Germanic population of NW England and SW Scotland was the same (Cumbrian).

[Peterski]

Dude, the average Ulster Scot is 48% Irish, Scottish, Welsh and the average Ulster Irishman is 51.9% Irish, Scottish , Welsh. If the Ulster Irish converted to Presbyterianism rather than Catholicism that would not really make them go extinct since that is less than a 4% difference. The Southern Irish are a different case.

I am telling the Ulster Irish and Western Scots are the same tribe and that religion is stupid.

Where did you take those percentages from?

Anyway, this new study shows that there are at least 2 major genetic clusters in Ulster:

http://www.rcsi.ie/index.jsp?n=110&p=100&a=11226

https://static-content.springer.com/esm/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41598-017-17124-4/MediaObjects/41598_2017_17124_MOESM1_ESM.pdf

https://i.imgur.com/oIOrBbe.png

[Peterski]

Btw, Southeast Scotland was NEVER Gaelic-speaking in it's entire history.

Yeah, IIRC before it became Anglicized it was Brythonic-speaking, maybe with some Picts as well.

In Roman times Scotland was a mix of Picts and Britons. Gaels came only later from Ireland.

Gaels came at about the same time as Anglo-Saxons.

[Peterski]

But originally the Gaelic language was called Scottish, and what is now Scottish was called Inglis.

Later when Gaelic lost importance, there was a transfer of name, Inglis started to be called Scottish.

Yeah, technically it is a dialect of English (which is why it used to be called Inglis).

[Mingle]

Yeah, IIRC before it became Anglicized it was Brythonic-speaking, maybe with some Picts as well.

In Roman times Scotland was a mix of Picts and Britons. Gaels came only later from Ireland.

All of Scotland was Brythonic-speaking before. The Highlands were Pictish whereas the Lowlands were Cumbric (like England).

When the Gaels/Irish came from Ireland to Great Britain (Dal Riada Kingdom), they Gaelicized all of modern day Scotland except for the Southeast. After Cumbric became extinct in SE Scotland, they went on to speak English which is exactly like what happened in England. In the rest of Scotland, they got Gaelicized, and then they later got Anglicized (but not fully) after the United Kingdom was formed.

[Peterski]

AFAIK Pictish was not a dialect of Brythonic though. At least not according to the majority of linguists.

So only Non-Pictish parts of Scotland were Brythonic (including Cumbric which is a variety of Brythonic).

[Mingle]

But originally the Gaelic language was called Scottish, and what is now Scottish was called Inglis.

Later when Gaelic lost importance, there was a transfer of name, Inglis started to be called Scottish.

Yeah, technically it is a dialect of English (which is why it used to be called Inglis).

The Scots language is descended from the Northumbrian dialect of Old English. They used to call it Inglis ('English') but then they shifted that meaning onto the English from the Kingdom of England and started calling their language Scottis. They also called their language/dialect (and I think still do in some places) Lallands ('Lowlandish') to distinguish it from what is spoken in England. But the term Lallands was only used to refer to their speech not to their ethnicity.

[Mingle]

Pictish is not Brythonic.

It isn't confirmed to be Bythonic but it is more likely to be Brythonic than not. But either way, the highlands were Pictish whereas the lowlands were Cumbric.

[Bobby Martnen]

But when we talked about Germanization of some Polish areas in the 1800s and early 1900s, you were okay with that.

I don't remember discussing that with you - did you have another name before Litvin/El Litvino?


That was also pretty much forced, even if the inhabitants were okay with that by the time of the Inter-War period.

I think the Germanization of Posen was wrong, for sure, and I'm glad it was reversed in 1919. I just think that Poland's borders should have stayed with their 1919-1939 borders after WWII instead of losing their eastern half and being compensated with the Western half of Germany.

Lemberg, Grodno, and Vilna are far more important to Polish history than Breslau, Stettin, and Allenstein. I'm not calling for them to be returned now, because it's not Poland's fault what happened, but I do think it's important to recognize that the post-war border and population transfers were wrong. (What the Nazis did was wrong, too. One does not make the other right)


But religion also played a role. Lutheran Polish-speakers were mostly "won for Germanness" simply due to being Lutheran. For similar reason in Ireland forcible change of language did not make local Catholics identify as English.

But since they weren't German, their land belonged with Poland.


But Alsatians are Catholic. And they never really identified with the Prussian, Lutheran version of Germanness.

Maybe if Austria united Germany instead of Prussia, Alsatians would still be German patriots today.

So are Bavarians, and most Baden-Wuerttembergers, and about half of all Rhenish people.

My German roots are Protestant from the Rhineland, Alsace, Baden, and Switzerland.

[Pennywise]

Yeah they should implement an immigration policy focused on encouraging immigration of people from regions which have more Turkic DNA, such as Central Asia, Yakutia, etc. Make Turkey Proto-Turkic again!: :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ZZWrAAxiQ

None of them are "proto-Turkic" genetically you dumb Polak fuck. It is still lot more legitimate claim than your Indo-Yurop pan Slav autism.

[Peterski]

In the rest of Scotland, they got Gaelicized, and then they later got Anglicized (but not fully) after the United Kingdom was formed.

Lots of Highlanders became English-speaking when they migrated to industrial areas in the center.

Check "Scottish Population Statistics", Edinburgh 1952.

In year 1755, 51% of the population of Scotland lived in the Highlands. By 1931, this declined to 20%. Mostly because of migrations from the north to urbanized and industrialized areas in the center (Ayr, Dunbarton, Lanark, Renfrew, Clackmannan, Stirling, the Lothians, Fife, the City of Dundee). People from the south migrated to the center too (in 1755 southern Lowland Scotland had 11% of the country's population, while in 1930 only 5%, also due to migrations).

Today most of Scots live in the central belt and are of mixed origin as all these groups mixed there.

[Peterski]

I think the Germanization of Posen was wrong

I'm wasn't really talking about Posen.

Rather about areas such as eastern Pommern (Stolp, Lauenburg, Rummelsburg, Bütow), north-east Middle Silesia (Mittelschlesien) and Masuria. Those areas had a Polish-speaking population as of 1800, but it was mostly Lutheran.

Catholic areas like Posen and Pomerelia resisted Germanization much better.

[TEUTORIGOS]

Where did you take those percentages from?

Anyway, this new study shows that there are at least 2 major genetic clusters in Ulster:

http://www.rcsi.ie/index.jsp?n=110&p=100&a=11226

https://static-content.springer.com/esm/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41598-017-17124-4/MediaObjects/41598_2017_17124_MOESM1_ESM.pdf

https://i.imgur.com/oIOrBbe.png

Northern Ireland :

Irish (48.49%), British (23.64%), Europe West (12.11%), Scandinavia (6.19%), Iberian Peninsula (2.07%), Italy/Greece (1.24%), Eastern Europe (1.10%)

https://www.ancestry.com/corporate/international/press-releases/DNA-of-the-nation-revealedand-were-not-as-British-as-we-think

Ulster Ireland average 51.9% Irish

https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2015/03/16/what-does-our-dna-tell-us-about-being-irish/

https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/files/2015/03/AncestryDNA11112.jpg

[Pennywise]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?231231-%26%23304%3Bzmir-Turk-GEDmatch-results

Etain don't make me slap your ass.

[Mingle]

Lots of Highlanders became English-speaking when they migrated to industrial areas in the center.

Check "Scottish Population Statistics", Edinburgh 1952.

In year 1755, 51% of the population of Scotland lived in the Highlands. By 1931, this declined to 20%. Mostly because of migrations from the north to urbanized and industrialized areas in the center (Ayr, Dunbarton, Lanark, Renfrew, Clackmannan, Stirling, the Lothians, Fife, the City of Dundee). People from the south migrated to the center too (in 1755 southern Lowland Scotland had 11% of the country's population, while in 1930 only 5%, also due to migrations).

Today most of Scots live in the central belt and are of mixed origin as all these groups mixed there.

Sad what happened, it resulted in the near extinction of Gaelic in the highlands. Most of the migration to the lowlands was forced: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances

[Peterski]

Catholic areas like Posen and Pomerelia resisted Germanization much better.

Catholic Kashubians for example voted for Polish nationalists in every single Reichstag election:
(so I find it ridiculous when some people try to separate Kashubian nationality from Polish)

https://s3.postimg.org/ppmohebjn/Reichstag_Elections.png

https://s3.postimg.org/ppmohebjn/Reichstag_Elections.png

Source:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstagswahl_August_1867
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstagswahl_1871
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstagswahl_1874
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstagswahl_1877
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstagswahl_1878
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstagswahl_1881
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstagswahl_1884
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstagswahl_1887
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstagswahl_1890
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstagswahl_1893
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstagswahl_1898
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstagswahl_1903
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstagswahl_1907
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstagswahl_1912

Dark red = Polish nationalists won every election in 1867-1912. Green = never won.

[Bobby Martnen]

I'm wasn't really talking about Posen.

Rather about areas such as eastern Pommern (Stolp, Lauenburg, Rummelsburg, Bütow), north-east Middle Silesia (Mittelschlesien) and Masuria. Those areas had a Polish-speaking population as of 1800, but it was mostly Lutheran.

Catholic areas like Posen and Pomerelia resisted Germanization much better.

The ethnically Polish areas should have gone to Poland, the ethnically German areas to Germany

[Magnolia]

Ethnicity and race is destiny more or less. For instance, the amount of blacks that have what it takes to be rocket scientists is probably the same amount as Vietnamese who are tall enough and have enough skill to play in the NBA. The French are good at Art and the Germans engineering.Not all groups are equally good at all things. East Asians will continue to win Olympic diving events, and runners of West African ancestry will continue to win the 100-meter dash. Similarly, nobody will ever be able to devise a test of knowledge or understanding on which groups with different population-genetic histories all record identical statistical profiles. You can have meritocracy, or you can have equality of outcomes by ancestry-group, but you can’t have both. Which one do you want? It seems we have already made up our minds.

Yes, it is destiny for people who don't manage to exceed limits that are given by culture/society/even a social group they were born in. All "big people" were able to do it - if Tesla would cried in a pub he was born as a villager/a poor person/a Slav or tried to find his value in 5% of his Germanic blood (just an example, don't know if he had some Germanic ancestors) - he would ended like an alcoholic/villager/a poor person.... but he didn't think of these things at all, he had no limits. Easy. Most people don't manage this of course, most people are sheep.

Yes, is something like an international division of labour; There are many factors why is like that (eg. climate, natural sources, quality of historical rules, interests of national's "big" men/heroes/businessmen,... - it is not a result of everyone's efforts; yeah Aristotle was great but it doesn't mean all Greeks are Aristotles, no need to be proud of Aristotle's work). To be born as German doesn't mean to be born as a technical engineer... to be born as a German mean you can easily become a technical engineer if you have potential and interest to be... But many Germans don't have it. To be born to a successful society is an advantage, many things are easier, but that's all.
Everything else is up to you. Many Germans are losers of course, many Germans are dump, many Germans have mental issues... many Germans feel like they are nobody.

[TEUTORIGOS]

This is the average Ulster Scots result :

Irish (48.49%), British (23.64%), Europe West (12.11%), Scandinavia (6.19%), Iberian Peninsula (2.07%), Italy/Greece (1.24%), Eastern Europe (1.10%)

This is my Ulster Irish result :

52% Irish, Scottish, Welsh
37% British ( Anglo-Saxon)
6% Scandinavian
With the rest likely noise

So I am both more Celtic and more Anglo-Saxon than the invading Ulster Scots. How the hell am I supposed to identify ? It is a paradox.

[Peterski]

The ethnically Polish areas should have gone to Poland, the ethnically German areas to Germany

These were Polish territorial claims after WW1:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmowski%27s_Line

Map:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Liniadmowskiego.png

But there was also a more multi-ethnic concept:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermarium

[TEUTORIGOS]

Yes, it is destiny for people who don't manage to exceed limits that are given by culture/society/even a social group they was born in. All "big people" were able to do it - if Tesla would cried in a pub he was born as a villager/a poor person/a Slav or tried to find his value in 5% person of his Germanic blood (just an example, don't know if he had some Germanic ancestors) - he would ended like an alcoholic/villager/a poor person.... but he didn't think of these things at all, he had no limits. Easy. Most people don't manage this of course, most people are sheep.

Yes, is something like an international division of labour; There are many factors why is like that (eg. climate, natural sources, quality of historical rules, interests of national's "big" men/heroes/businessmen,... - it is not a result of everyone's efforts; yeah Aristotle was great but it doesn't mean all Greeks are Aristotles, no need to be proud of Aristotle's work). To be born as German doesn't mean to be born as a technical engineer... to be born as a German mean you can easily become a technical engineer if you have potential and interest to be... But many Germans doesn't have it. To be born to a successful society is an advantage, many things are easier, but that's all.
Everything else is up to you. Many Germans are losers of course, many Germans are dump, many Germans have mental issues... many Germans feel like they are nobody.

Yeah, so most 85 IQ American negroes can become rocket scientists they just need to break free of societal limitations etc... ? All they have to do is stop being sheep. I am not buying that bullshit.

[Peterski]

How the hell am I supposed to identify ?

Murican: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ancestry ???

[Mingle]

Puerto Rican killer bees are racially African (and descended from African bees, without any local admixture), but behaviorally very different. They have evolved gentle behavior and lost their aggressiveness. The same applies to modern Swedes who are racially the same as Vikings but in terms of genes determining behavior they have changed since the Viking Age.

There has been soft selection on cuck genes in Sweden over the past several generations (at least).

You are massively over-emphasizing on genetics. Sweden in the Middle Ages was nothing even remotely similar to modern day Sweden. The environment, development, etc. is completely different.

There is no such thing as "cuck genes" or anything related to that in epigenetics. In Sweden, people not wanting to offend others or bother others is a thing from before the immigration saga. It's part of their anti-social attitude which has to do with the environment they live in. In Viking Sweden, there weren't much resources, so in order to survive they had to raid neighboring lands. It was a necessity and something all people did to a degree.

As for Sweden having different views on immigration than other Nordic countries, that has to do with Sweden having a history of migration from neighboring regions (they may have thought it would be somewhat similar with MENAs and Sub-Saharans but it wasn't) so they were somewhat used to it. Sweden was historically the greatest power in that region and is also more industrial today as a result. Finland also has a rough relationship with Russia that made it more wary of foreigners.

I've heard that the public opinion of Swedes is different to that of their politicians. The Swedish public is much more anti-immigration than their politicians are. Soon it will probably become a bit less progressive. I've also heard that there is a backlash against feminism there (and the rest of Scandinavia). It has a greater sex inequality gap than the US does in regards to how much money men and women make.

[Peterski]

You are massively over-emphasizing on genetics.

I know I was mainly joking. 3rd Law of Behavior Genetics says that a substantial portion of the variation in complex human behavioral traits is not accounted for by either the effects of genes or families:

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0963721415580430

[Mingle]

These were Polish territorial claims after WW1:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmowski%27s_Line

Map:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Liniadmowskiego.png

But there was also a more multi-ethnic concept:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermarium

Poland didn't claim Konigsberg after WW1 but claimed all the regions that surround it?? Any idea why?

Would have been a nice gesture if the Old Prussians were still around :p

[Peterski]

Poland didn't claim Konigsberg after WW1 but claimed all the regions that surround it? Any idea why?

Southern part of East Prussia was inhabited by Polish speaking population so it was claimed on ethnic grounds. But they were Lutherans (converted in the 1500s-1600s - some of them settled there as Catholics and converted later, while some came as Protestant religious refugees from Poland in the 1600s, when Poland became less tolerant of dissidents).

North-eastern part of East Prussia was inhabited by Lithuanian-speaking population (also Lutherans).

Allenstein area (southern Warmia / Ermland) had Catholic Poles and it was part of Poland until 1772.

The area around Elbing was ethnically German but it was part of Poland before 1772.

[Bobby Martnen]

These were Polish territorial claims after WW1:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmowski%27s_Line

Map:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Liniadmowskiego.png

But there was also a more multi-ethnic concept:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermarium

Don't agree with them taking so much of East Prussia and the Oppeln area, or Lithuania, but other than that, it looks very reasonable and like a good proposal

[Bobby Martnen]

Southern part of East Prussia was inhabited by Polish speaking population so it was claimed on ethnic grounds. But they were Lutherans (converted in the 1500s-1600s - some of them settled there as Catholics and converted later, while some came as Protestant religious refugees from Poland in the 1600s, when Poland became less tolerant of dissidents).

North-eastern part of East Prussia was inhabited by Lithuanian-speaking population (also Lutherans).

And Koenigsberg and the surrounding area was inhabited by Lutheran Germans

[Mingle]

Southern part of East Prussia was inhabited by Polish speaking population so it was claimed on ethnic grounds. But they were Lutherans (converted in the 1500s-1600s - some of them settled there as Catholics and converted later, while some came as Protestant religious refugees from Poland in the 1600s, when Poland became less tolerant of dissidents).

North-eastern part of East Prussia was inhabited by Lithuanian-speaking population (also Lutherans).

Allenstein area (southern Warmia / Ermland) had Catholic Poles and it was part of Poland until 1772.

The area around Elbing was ethnically German but it was part of Poland before 1772.

If they decide to not want to annex Northeastern East Prussia on the grounds that it is Lithuanian-speaking, then it makes no sense to want to annex all of Lithuania.

[TEUTORIGOS]

Murican: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ancestry ???

Yeah, I guess but here in New York there are people from every corner of the globe so hyphenated -American is more common plus there is little Italy and China town etc...

[Peterski]

If they decide to not want to annex Northeastern East Prussia on the grounds that it is Lithuanian-speaking, then it makes no sense to want to annex all of Lithuania.

They did want to annex the north-eastern border strip of East Prussia (check that map again). They didn't claim Konigsberg area because they probably felt it would be a stretch and there would be too many Germans in the country. Czechoslovakia had problems with loyalty of its German minority in Sudetenland during the Inter-War Period.

[Magnolia]

Yeah, so most 85 IQ American negroes can become rocket scientists they just need to break free of societal limitations etc... ? All they have to do is stop being sheep. I am not buying that bullshit.

As a group they need more time (it means several generations), they need first of all motivation, then good education, health values and eg good nutrition.... all these things have an impact on IQ.

It is very difficult for them to stay motivated - stop being sheep and overcome the reality of their society/social groups (they don't need to be scientists, for them is enough to have a job they enjoy, be good people, be honest people, do the best for their children and want the best for their children) . Only non-sheep from their ethical groups manage it. I don't doubt pioneers between them exist even now, and yes these people have real reasons to be proud of themselves (they don't need false national pride).

I am pretty sure it will not help to anything if people from more successful societies look down on them.

[Peterski]

Don't agree with them taking so much of East Prussia and the Oppeln area, or Lithuania, but other than that, it looks very reasonable and like a good proposal

The mostly rural area next to Opole actually voted for Poland in the plebiscite. Those were big industrial cities in the east of Upper Silesia that voted for Germany. But when the region was divided, those pro-Polish areas between Bytom and Opole were given to Germany, while cities which voted for Germany were given to Poland. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Silesia_plebiscite#Results

Blue for Germany, Red for Poland:

http://a0.typepad.com/6a019103c45ca1970c01b7c705ded8970b-800wi

Rural population of the entire blue area (below) voted for Poland, but cities of the industrial region in the East voted for Germany:

Red for Germany, Blue for Poland:

http://opolskie.regiopedia.pl/sites/default/files/imagecache/width630px/photos/105242-mapa.jpg

The final border left most of those blue rural areas in Germany, while most of the industrial region in Poland:

Yellow = areas with >50% of Polish-speakers (as of 1910) which nevertheless voted mostly for Germany:

https://s3.postimg.org/dy5lxvtxv/Plebiscite_1921_B.png

So there was no easy way to divide the region.

[CertifiedCracker]

For years my family said we were Polish, which was weird considering our last name isnt Polish at all. Southerners do shit like that to make them sound exotic. Its better than being just a hick. Irish, German, or whatever just adds an exoticness, I guess. To my surprise, they werent entirely wrong and the fact that our family had settled in Poland before settling in the colonies and that they remembered without any documents is hilarious. Twardocice, Poland, immigrated in the the 1730s, and I guess passed down that small bit of history to present day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwenkfelder_Church

But Im not Polish, nor German, or whatever.

Im American

[Bobby Martnen]

So there was no easy way to divide the region.

The IRL division was the best, I think, given that it reflected the will of the population

[Peterski]

The IRL division was the best, I think, given that it reflected the will of the population

It didn't, large areas which voted for Poland were left in Germany as you can see in the map. Also one factor which influenced the results was that non-residents were allowed to vote (it meant that for example people born in the plebiscite area who later emigrated to the Ruhr Region of Germany etc., were allowed to vote despite not living in the region in 1921).

So it reflected not just the will of the population but also of non-residents who did not live there.

IMO they had voted with their feet when they had decided to emigrate. So they should not be allowed to vote.

[Peterski]

Another factor which influenced the result was that only people over 20 years old were allowed to vote. That resolution favoured the German-speaking part of the population, whose median age was greater than that of Polish-speakers in Upper Silesia, according to censuses of 1900-1910. Polish-speaking population had a higher % of teenagers and children.

Even reducing the age of eligible voters from 20 to 18 could alter the results in Poland's favour. Also most of non-residents (mentioned in my previous post) voted for Germany, because most of them came from the Ruhr Region.

[Peterski]

According to German census of 1910, Polish-speakers were 56,84% of residents in the plebiscite area.

However, if counting only residents over 20 years of age, Polish-speakers were 51,74% (as of year 1910).

The plebiscite was 11 years later of course. There is no census data after 1910 and before 1921.

===============

In the plebiscite, Poland got 46,71% of votes of residents (not including votes of non-residents).

This indicates that around 90% of all Polish-speakers who were eligible to vote, voted for Poland.

[Magnolia]

Litvin, I am not sure if users are able to appreciate your information about Poland and your people everywhere; maybe special threads would be better...

[Peterski]

I'm also posting about the recent plebiscite in Scotland, not just Poland.

This is interesting for example (how people identify vs. how they voted):

http://s12.postimg.org/o5q1ey9x9/Ethnic_votes.png

People who identify as "Scottish, not British" - voted for independence.

People who identify as "More Scottish than British" - split around 50/50.

"Equally Scottish and British" - the vast majority voted for the union.

[Bobby Martnen]

Another factor which influenced the result was that only people over 20 years old were allowed to vote. That resolution favoured the German-speaking part of the population, whose median age was greater than that of Polish-speakers in Upper Silesia, according to censuses of 1900-1910. Polish-speaking population had a higher % of teenagers and children.

Even reducing the age of eligible voters from 20 to 18 could alter the results in Poland's favour. Also most of non-residents (mentioned in my previous post) voted for Germany, because most of them came from the Ruhr Region.

They should have had 18+ voting, and all the areas that voted for Poland went to Poland, and all the areas that voted for Germany went to Germany

That's what I would have done

I also really like how we can have a debate respectfully and intelligently, without starting a flame war. That's a talent some Apricians (*cough* RMuller, Heathers, greasycaveman *cough*) lack

[Mingle]

Litvin, I am not sure if users are able to appreciate your information about Poland and your people everywhere; maybe special threads would be better...

I find those posts interesting :p

[Peterski]

They should have had 18+ voting, and all the areas that voted for Poland went to Poland, and all the areas that voted for Germany went to Germany

That would look like a patchwork with some isolated enclaves left on both sides. But there could be a population exchange after the vote (whoever opted for each country can choose to relocate if they don't like the result).

[Magnolia]

I find those posts interesting :p

Great. You're probably the only one :-). But doesn't matter, it is a long OT. A special thread would make sense in this case.

[Mingle]

Litvin, earlier you mentioned Catholics being more likely to vote for independence. I'd just like to add that a LOT of Catholic Scots are descended from Irish migrants that came from Ireland during the Great Famine and to a significantly lesser degree, the Troubles. If I'm not mistaken, the majority are of Irish descent and only a small minority are of Scottish (i.e. non-famine refugee) descent. Many, if not most, still identify as Irish. They were responsible for founding big Scottish clubs like Celtic FC, Hibernian FC, and Dundee United FC.

[Fractal]

They should have had 18+ voting, and all the areas that voted for Poland went to Poland, and all the areas that voted for Germany went to Germany

That's what I would have done

I also really like how we can have a debate respectfully and intelligently, without starting a flame war. That's a talent some Apricians (*cough* RMuller, Heathers, greasycaveman *cough*) lack

Eastern Europeans/Slavs /Balkanoids are irrelevant to me until I need to get my pipelines unclogged, house painted or floor tiles replaced

I wanted to say carpet steamed and shampooed but the last guy was a Korean believe it or not, and before that Iranian.

[Peterski]

BTW I found a Texas Silesian kit from Panna Maria on GEDmatch:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panna_Maria,_Texas

They came in the 1850s. Here is the map of settlements of origin:

http://www.flmfoundation.org/index.html

http://www.slask-texas.org/en

https://s30.postimg.org/7rg6ai5ht/Silesian_Polish_emigration_Texas.png

[Bobby Martnen]

That would look like a patchwork with some isolated enclaves left on both sides. But there could be a population exchange after the vote (whoever opted for each country can choose to relocate if they don't like the result).

Try to draw a contiguous border that leaves as few people on the wrong side as possible

[Peterski]

Litvin, I am not sure if users are able to appreciate your information about Poland and your people everywhere

I don't post about Czechia anymore because you don't like it. :(

Anyway, I found these Hungarian maps, you might be interested:

http://terkepek.adatbank.transindex.ro

http://terkepek.adatbank.transindex.ro/kepek/netre/10.gif

http://terkepek.adatbank.transindex.ro/kepek/netre/11.gif

[JohnSmith]

I do not identify as white. I know my tribe. My tribe is Ulster Irish and West Scottish Celto-Germanic. What good is identifying as 'white' if Slavs and Southern Europeans are included ?

You make it sound much simpler than it is. Many Germanic and Celtic tribes were all over Southern Europe. Especially in Norman Southern Italy and Spain had the Visigoths and Celts among others that invaded there. Anyone that thinks that Southern Europe does not have Germanic and Celtic influence does not understand history.
Celts and Germanic influence also were all over Eastern Europe, some Celts were even in Turkey.


Unlike the Norman conquest of England (1066), which took a few years after one decisive battle, the conquest of southern Italy was the product of decades and a number of battles, few decisive. Many territories were conquered independently, and only later were unified into a single state. Compared to the conquest of England it was unplanned and disorganised, but equally complete.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_conquest_of_southern_Italy

[Thracian]

75%.

[JohnSmith]

Ethnicity and race is destiny more or less. For instance, the amount of blacks that have what it takes to be rocket scientists is probably the same amount as Vietnamese who are tall enough and have enough skill to play in the NBA. The French are good at Art and the Germans engineering.Not all groups are equally good at all things. East Asians will continue to win Olympic diving events, and runners of West African ancestry will continue to win the 100-meter dash. Similarly, nobody will ever be able to devise a test of knowledge or understanding on which groups with different population-genetic histories all record identical statistical profiles. You can have meritocracy, or you can have equality of outcomes by ancestry-group, but you can’t have both. Which one do you want? It seems we have already made up our minds.

Every group is good at something combining the efforts is the best outcome. Germans are not particularly good at design. Italians are good at design that is why the Germans bought the Lamborghini company. To use Italian design but with the better German engineering.
For music both the Germans and Italian are good at. Maybe the edge goes to the Germans because of Beethoven but the Italian invented the sheet music notation.
The Ford Mustang and Minivan were both designed by the famous Italian American Lee Iaccoca.
French have very good cuisine along with style and design.
The French are good t metal working and bridge design. They built the Statue of Liberty and designed the Brooklyn bridge.


Lamborghini’s Gallardo: Italian flair meets German engineering
https://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201305/lamborghini-gallardo_1600x0w.jpg

The latest Lamborghinis are super cars due to the Italian design and German engineering.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2008/10/12/travel/lamborghinis-gallardo-italian-flair-meets-german-engineering/

The rivalry between Italians and Germans with Music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9osjQDLjpc0

[Kelmendasi]

Idk, like 25% maybe

[JohnSmith]

On the first sight - it can't be so visible there is a deep feeling of own uncertainty and inadequacy behind that pride of own nation/roots if one comes from a successful society; but that attitude is typical for many people who comes from societies that objectively aren't above average in anything.

Conclusion is - people are everywhere the same in core, they want to be important, successful, they want to be respected, they want to be even admired, and of course loved. And if they lack most of these things on personal level, they feel like nobody, they are insecure, ... they keep trying to find an anchor that will help them to feed their malnourished needs... nationalism/pride of heritage/radicalism are typical manifestations....

I agree but a little bit of pride I do not think hurts anyone. But too much can certainly be a problem.

[CertifiedCracker]

Its not a matter of identification, as much as perception. Regardless of how you feel, you will be treated and referred to as you're percieved. I am racially mixed with white and Semite, but I my skin is white as fuck, my eyes are green, etc. I am seen as white, or sometimes as Jewish, but then thats labelled as white too. I was raised white, everyone in my family is white, I am called white, so I am white. Its not a choice. You dont get to pick and choose your racial identity.

[TeutonicBoyars]

Just to add a bit more because I researched this idea a bit more because I was curious.

There's an blood quantum protocol for the indigenous peoples of America where if you possess a certain amount of Native American ancestry you are eligible to be accepted into the community (and live on their land) - for some tribes it is not a high requirement at all: could be a great-great grandparent or something. Just a (relatively) recent traceable ancestor - what is important to them is that you begin to identify with the culture and tradition, and not just with the blood.

Anyway, it's a little strange to me, but at the same time I think it's kind that these people would welcome anyone of their blood, even if it is distant, who takes enough interest to know their culture and roots.

[Senpai]

Just to add a bit more because I researched this idea a bit more because I was curious.

There's an blood quantum protocol for the indigenous peoples of America where if you possess a certain amount of Native American ancestry you are eligible to be accepted into the community (and live on their land) - for some tribes it is not a high requirement at all: could be a great-great grandparent or something. Just a (relatively) recent traceable ancestor - what is important to them is that you begin to identify with the culture and tradition, and not just with the blood.

Anyway, it's a little strange to me, but at the same time I think it's kind that these people would welcome anyone of their blood, even if it is distant, who takes enough interest to know their culture and roots.

They have to at this point. Membership is low, their culture is vanishing. Most within the culture full blooded are disenfranchised and poor.

[Black Panther]

You can only feel pride for a heritage that represent 25% of your ethnic origin, below of that it's insignificant.

So I shouldn't be proud of being Black just because I am under 25% Black? WTF?

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

So I shouldn't be proud of being Black just because I am under 25% Black? WTF?

At that point you are not really a black person but just partially black.

[Leto]

So I shouldn't be proud of being Black just because I am under 25% Black? WTF?
Are you under 25% SSA and you seriously identify as black? Lol. First you need to determine how African, European, etc. you really are.

[Leto]

Bump

I would say ancestry below 25% (one full grandparent) is not very important. Normally we don't even get to see our great-grandparents and when we do, we're too young to remember them.

[marco]

The majority of my dna is northern African 80 percent so that’s what I identify as

[marco]

Bump

I would say ancestry below 25% (one full grandparent) is not very important. Normally we don't even get to see our great-grandparents and when we do, we're too young to remember them.
It depends if you have a lot of small ancestries ranging from about 20 percent then they should identify with whatever they want. It’s in there dna so I don’t see a problem with him identifying as that

[Leto]

It depends if you have a lot of small ancestries ranging from about 20 percent then they should identify with whatever they want. It’s in there dna so I don’t see a problem with him identifying as that
Well, my point is if someone is 87.5% British and 12.5% Italian (one great-grandparent), they're just British and there is no point LARPing as something "exotic".

[J. Ketch]

Pride: Any one ancestor within a few generations
Identification: 50%+

[marco]

Well, my point is if someone is 87.5% British and 12.5% Italian (one great-grandparent), they're just British and there is no point LARPing as something "exotic".
Yeah you got a point lol

[J. Ketch]

Well, my point is if someone is 87.5% British and 12.5% Italian (one great-grandparent), they're just British and there is no point LARPing as something "exotic".
Hmm, not sure about that.

[Leto]

Hmm, not sure about that.
Dude, ethnicity is not synonymous with plotting on a PCA. And by the way, the Italians are diverse, not all of them are Sicilians if you imply they are wogs (we all know you dispay some Odinist tendencies xD). Of course having 2 parents and 4 grandparents born in the UK and speaking British English would mean one is totally British.

[Samnium]

Dude, ethnicity is not synonymous with plotting on a PCA. And by the way, the Italians are diverse, not all of them are Sicilians if you imply they are wogs (we all know you dispay some Odinist tendencies xD). Of course having 2 parents and 4 grandparents born in the UK and speaking British English would mean one is totally British.

And actually you can be half German and half Lebanese for example and plotting in Crete, that doesn't make you a cretan "ethnically" even if genetically yes.

It's a though question because the categories of the DNA tests can't estimate a percentage of some groups (like Celtic who's a very broad term) so I think that the most logical would be to claim groups that are directly linked to your ancestry (it can be even distant).

Personally if I had to identify my "Meta-ethnicity" I would say gallo-italic, my two origins.

[Samnium]

Dude, ethnicity is not synonymous with plotting on a PCA. And by the way, the Italians are diverse, not all of them are Sicilians if you imply they are wogs (we all know you dispay some Odinist tendencies xD). Of course having 2 parents and 4 grandparents born in the UK and speaking British English would mean one is totally British.

And by the way not only S.Italy is very diverse but also understudied or studied in a bad way (the persons don't take in account the localisation, you have only averages that mean absolutely nothing given the outliers).

[J. Ketch]

Dude, ethnicity is not synonymous with plotting on a PCA. And by the way, the Italians are diverse, not all of them are Sicilians if you imply they are wogs (we all know you dispay some Odinist tendencies xD). Of course having 2 parents and 4 grandparents born in the UK and speaking British English would mean one is totally British.
Not totally. Only 87.5%.

[Leto]

And actually you can be half German and half Lebanese for example and plotting in Crete, that doesn't make you a cretan "ethnically" even if genetically yes.

It's a though question because the categories of the DNA tests can't estimate a percentage of some groups (like Celtic who's a very broad term) so I think that the most logical would be to claim groups that are directly linked to your ancestry (it can be even distant).

Personally if I had to identify my "Meta-ethnicity" I would say gallo-italic, my two origins.
I think we should identify with our paper trail ancestry, not with what DNA tests (let alone GEDmatch) show us, they often give people a lot of confusing nonsense and they also change their estimates from time to time. People shouldn't forget there are such things as culture, country of birth, language, etc. Cultural assimilation is real.

[Leto]

Not totally. Only 87.5%.
Well, that's pure autism. At what point do you accept someone as fully assimilated and not liable for deportation? Lol
Even from an ethnic nationalist point of view (by the way I'm probably more "right-wing" than most TA members, you guys don't wanna know my views) total purity is neither achievable, nor necessary.

[Samnium]

I think we should identify with our paper trail ancestry, not with what DNA tests (let alone GEDmatch) show us, they often give people a lot of confusing nonsense and they also change their estimates from time to time. People shouldn't forget there are such things as culture, country of birth, language, etc. Cultural assimilation is real.

I totally agree, and by the way "surprising results" (having like 50% of unexpected ethnicity for example) are very rare, so identifying with paper trail ancestry, except very specific cases (like recent foreign ancestor that wasn't known, adopted childrens etc.) should be enough to identify the ethnicity or the meta-ethnicity.

[Samnium]

Well, that's pure autism. At what point do you accept someone as fully assimilated and not liable to deportation? Lol
Even from an ethnic nationalist point of view (by the way I'm probably more "right-wing" than most TA members, you guys don't wanna know my views) total purity is neither achievable, nor necessary.

I think that 50% of a country + 50% of another european country could be a good rule. And by the way if the person marry a local in the next generation the children would be 75% of this ethnicity so really this is not even a problem.

[Leto]

I think that 50% of a country + 50% of another european country could be a good rule. And by the way if the person marry a local in the next generation the childrens would be 75% of this ethnicity so really this is even not a problem.
Yeah, immigration from culturally close countries is never an issue (to the vast majority of people). The more distant a country is culturally, the less compatible are the people as immigrants. I don't think holding this view which would have been totally mainstream just a few decades ago would make you a radical neo-Nazi or something. But we live in clown world unfortunately.

[Adamastor]

1%.

Any ancestry you have is part of who you are. If that ancestor never lived you would not exist.

[Samnium]

Yeah, immigration from culturally close countries is never an issue (to the vast majority of people). The more distant a country is culturally, the less compatible are the people as immigrants. I don't think holding this view which would have been totally mainstream just a few decades ago would make you a radical neo-Nazi or something. But we live in clown world unfortunately.

You can also speak genetically. I'm not in favor of a generalized euro mixing but clearly a wave of Euro migrants would not make your country a mongrel land. Unlike non-euro migrants.

People can't give the priorities. The priorities are the africans and third-worlders that came here.

Envoyé de mon ALE-L21 en utilisant Tapatalk

[J. Ketch]

Well, that's pure autism. At what point do you accept someone as fully assimilated and not liable for deportation? Lol
Even from an ethnic nationalist point of view (by the way I'm probably more "right-wing" than most TA members, you guys don't wanna know my views) total purity is neither achievable, nor necessary.
I just don't think it's a correct statement to say that someone is fully British when they're 1/8 Italian. That's not autism, it's stating the obvious. I'm sure they would casually identify as British and others would identify them likewise.

Purity is never fully achievable but it's always the ideal to aim for.

[Aldaris]

A simple pride is fine regardless of percentage, but the overall identity/pride taking has to be consistent with the overall ancestral composition. The example in the OP isn't like that, if 5-10% overpowers 90% - sounds awfully close to self-hate, to be honest

[Aldaris]

I just don't think it's a correct statement to say that someone is fully British when they're 1/8 Italian. That's not autism, it's stating the obvious. I'm sure they would casually identify as British and others would identify them likewise.

Purity is never fully achievable but it's always the ideal to aim for.

I think that was his point, he wasn't trying to deny that this 1/8 is still technically there. If you're 7/8 British though, it's pretty much negligible for your identity.

[Ford]

Is it a reach for them to take pride in their heritage and overpower it in comparison to their 90% Slavic?

Yes I think so. If I have no connection to a culture except for a minor percentage (or even haplogroup) given by a DNA test then I don't consider it a part of who I identify as.

[Thracian]

%6-8 is enough.

[andre]

1%.

Any ancestry you have is part of who you are. If that ancestor never lived you would not exist.

This.

[El_Abominacion]

Maybe 1/8

[Mortimer]

There is no thumb rule. It is cherry picking. You pick what you feel closest to or like the most and what you are familiar with. Usually as long it is in your family knowledge/history. Lets say you had a great grandfather or great grandfather. Then you would know it and could cherry pick that.

[Leto]

1/4 (25 percent) is one grandparent. If it's more distant than one full grandparent, then the connection must be fairly weak, so any overemphasized identification with that part would appear disingenuous, even bordering on LARPing.

[Leto]

There is no thumb rule. It is cherry picking. You pick what you feel closest to or like the most and what you are familiar with. Usually as long it is in your family knowledge/history. Lets say you had a great grandfather or great grandfather. Then you would know it and could cherry pick that.
Yes. Some people are quarter or even half something but don't feel any connection to that ancestry because they were, for example, raised without their father or their grandparent had died before they were born. The only thing they have in common with that culture is partial biological descent.