What do Magyars think about Mongols in Europe?

[demiirel]

I'm supposing the Magyars are more favorably disposed to us than others.

After all, they say we share a deeper heritage.

What do Hungarians think about Kalmyks and Mongols in general?

Do they have any kind of eastern orientation?

I think Hungarians share some of the same identity problems as us.

[Guapo]

I think the present day Hungarians, who are mostly Slavic, were brutally forced to speak Magyar just like the Romanians/Dacians were by the Romans.

[Pecheneg]

I think the present day Hungarians, who are mostly Slavic, were brutally forced to speak Magyar just like the Romanians/Dacians were by the Romans.
i don't think so...the language replacement theories are not very realistic..Well, mongoloid admixture in Hungary is only 1%. The Magyar conquerors were possibly predominantly caucasoid with some east asian admixture. But we should notice that there were great demographic changes in Hungary during the Habsburg era.
Some Turkic nations in western eurasia.
Kumyks 7-8% mongoloid (Kypchak Turk - caucasus)
Turks 7-8% mongoloid (Oghuz Turk - anatolia)
Balkars 7-8% mongoloid (Kypchak Turk -caucasus)
Turkmens 16% mongoloid (Oghuz Turk - central asia)
Gagauz 3-4% mongoloid (Oghuz Turk - balkans)
Crimean Tatars ~10-15% mongoloid (Kypchak with some Oghuz subjects -crimea)
Chuvash ~20% Mongoloid (Oghur/Chuvash Turk - Russia)
So, the nomadic peoples were not Racists, they intermarried with local populations instead of massacring them.

[Arrow Cross]

1241 was a long time ago, though it contributed a lot to the decline of our original genetic stock. Something between 30-40% of the population of the Kingdom of Hungary was wiped out by the darling Mongol hordes and the disasters they caused.

Unlike in Russia, they remained here for but a single year, so the Asiatic genetic footprints in Hungary are residues of the (largely-Europid) original Magyar conquerors, and not that of the Tatars.

Still, their ancient nomadic culture is quite similar to ours in many aspects and though we're almost certainly not related, modern historical relations between the two peoples have been favourable.

They, the Turks, and various peoples of the Caucasus are all included in our "far-right's" new, Eastern-oriented politics.


I think the present day Hungarians, who are mostly Slavic, were brutally forced to speak Magyar just like the Romanians/Dacians were by the Romans.
According to which Little Entente looney theory? :rolleyes:

[Insuperable]

Todays Hungarians are not only autosomaly very European but according to their ancestary as well ( haplogroups ).

[xajapa]

i don't think so...the language replacement theories are not very realistic..Well, mongoloid admixture in Hungary is only 1%. The Magyar conquerors were possibly predominantly caucasoid with some east asian admixture.
That is my understanding as well. The Magyars spent a good number of years in Urals, then Caucasus region, finally settling for a time in the Black Sea area. Their kingdom there was known as Etelköz. So, it is quite likely they mixed with the local population and had some Caucasoid presence.

[Stears]

I think the present day Hungarians, who are mostly Slavic, were brutally forced to speak Magyar just like the Romanians/Dacians were by the Romans.

Wrong, Hungarians genetically (like Czechs Slovaks) are not really slavic. That's why they often called slavo-germanic in genetics.

[Stears]

That is my understanding as well. The Magyars spent a good number of years in Urals, then Caucasus region, finally settling for a time in the Black Sea area. Their kingdom there was known as Etelköz. So, it is quite likely they mixed with the local population and had some Caucasoid presence.


Most slavic nations have higher ratio of Mongoloid genes. So I can't understand: why don't orientals try to fraternize with slavic people?

[xajapa]

Most slavic nations have higher ratio of Mongoloid genes. So I can't understand: why don't orientals try to fraternize with slavic people?

Perhaps "Slavic" nations adjacent to central Asia, like parts of Russia. I wouldn't say this about nations like Poland.

[blogen]

Nothing. The Mongolians is a distant folk. We did not have a relation with them except a war (1241-42).

[blogen]

Todays Hungarians are not only autosomaly very European but according to their ancestary as well ( haplogroups ).

This was true for the old Hungarians. The Hungarian homeland was in Western Siberia and not in Mongolia!

[robar]

This was true for the old Hungarians. The Hungarian homeland was in Western Siberia and not in Mongolia!

So-so Incoming Hungarians had 12% Sibrian(North asian markers) ,Supposedly ugric -(questionable) excavation site bc 2000 in western Siberia showed 27% Siberian markers

Invading hungarians,(burried in Horse early X century)

37303
25% found in one site, but that might be a coincidence

[blogen]

So-so Incoming Hungarians had 12% Sibrian(North asian markers) ,Supposedly ugric -(questionable) excavation site bc 2000 in western Siberia showed 27% Siberian markers
Invading hungarians,(burried in Horse early X century)
37303
25% found in one site, but that might be a coincidence

Accidental and not accidental. The elite was much more mixed than the common people. But the Harta cementery is an anomaly and :

mtDNA form Sargat culture elite burials (kurgans):
T: 43%
C: 26%
G: 10%
A: 10%
Z: 7%
Y: 4%
source: Casey C. Bennett, Frederika A. Kaestle: Investigation of Ancient DNA from Western Siberia and the Sargat Culture

http://www.tte.hu/media/images/stories/tortenelemtanitas/rasko04.jpg

mtDNA from total Conqueror population: 14% East Asian mtDNA, 86% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
H: 32%
T: 12% (Sargat elite: 43%)
U5: 9%
A: 4% (Sargat elite: 10%)
U4: 4%
N1a: 4%
R: 3%
X: 3%
U7: 3%
D: 3%
JT: 3%
U3
C: 1% (Sargat elite: 26%)
B: 1%
V: 1%
preV: 1%
U8: 1%
U7: 1%
U3: 1%
U2: 1%
N1b. 1%
M: 1%
J: 1%
I: 1%
U: 1%

mtDNA from Conqueror elite burials: 16% East Asian mtDNA, 84% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
H: 33%
T: 9% (Sargat elite: 43%)
U5: 9%
A: 7% (Sargat elite: 10%)
J: 7%
U4: 7%
D: 5%
U: 5%
C: 2% (Sargat elite: 26%)
B: 2%
X: 2%
V: 2%
U8: 2%
U3: 2%
R: 2%
JT: 2%

mtDNA from Conqueror common people burials (Harta): 32% East Asian mtDNA, 68% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
H: 38%
D: 11%
A: 11% (Sargat elite: 10%)
C: 5% (Sargat elite: 10%)
V: 5%
T: 5% (Sargat elite: 43%)
U5: 5%
U: 5%
U8: 5%
N1a: 5%
U7: 5%

mtDNA from Conqueror common people burials: 5% East Asian mtDNA, 95% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
H: 32%
T: 13% (Sargat elite: 43%)
U5: 11%
U3: 5%
U7: 5%
V: 5%
R: 5%
N1b: 5%
M: 5%
J: 5%
HV: 5%

mtDNA form present Hungarian population: 1% East Asian mtDNA, 99% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
H: 37% (Conqueror: 32%)
J: 10% (Conqueror: 1%)
T: 8% (Conqueror: 12%)
U5: 10% (Conqueror: 9%)
K: 8%
W: 7%
V: 6% (Conqueror: 1%)
U4: 4% (Conqueror: 4%)
U: 4% (Conqueror: 1%)
HV: 3%
I: 2% (Conqueror: 1%)
M: 1% (Conqueror: 1%)
preV: 1% (Conqueror: 1%)
source (http://www.tte.hu/toertenelemtanitas/toertenelemtanarok-orszagos-konferenciaja/7075-els-rajzvazlatok-a-honfoglalo-magyarok-genetikai-mintazatarol)

ancient common Hungarians mtDNA: unknown
conqueror common Hungarians mtDNA: 14% East Asian mtDNA, 86% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
present common Hungarians mtDNA: 1% East Asian mtDNA, 99% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
difference between the conqueror and the present common Hungarian population: 37% (mostly K, W and more J and V)

ancient Hungarian elite mtDNA: 57% East Asian mtDNA, 43% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
conqueror Hungarian elite mtDNA: 16% East Asian mtDNA, 84% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
present Hungarian elite mtDNA: unknown

And important, that we do not have enough ancient samples!

[riverman]

I think the present day Hungarians, who are mostly Slavic, were brutally forced to speak Magyar just like the Romanians/Dacians were by the Romans.

Bravo, hence the identity crisis.

[Swearengen]

Wrong, Hungarians genetically (like Czechs Slovaks) are not really slavic. That's why they often called slavo-germanic in genetics.

so what, slavo-goths? I assume you must be significantly balkan as well.

[robar]

Accidental and not accidental. The elite was much more mixed than the common people. But the Harta cementery is an anomaly and :

mtDNA form Sargat culture elite burials (kurgans):
T: 43%
C: 26%
G: 10%
A: 10%
Z: 7%
Y: 4%
source: Casey C. Bennett, Frederika A. Kaestle: Investigation of Ancient DNA from Western Siberia and the Sargat Culture

http://www.tte.hu/media/images/stories/tortenelemtanitas/rasko04.jpg

mtDNA from total Conqueror population: 14% East Asian mtDNA, 86% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
H: 32%
T: 12% (Sargat elite: 43%)
U5: 9%
A: 4% (Sargat elite: 10%)
U4: 4%
N1a: 4%
R: 3%
X: 3%
U7: 3%
D: 3%
JT: 3%
U3
C: 1% (Sargat elite: 26%)
B: 1%
V: 1%
preV: 1%
U8: 1%
U7: 1%
U3: 1%
U2: 1%
N1b. 1%
M: 1%
J: 1%
I: 1%
U: 1%

mtDNA from Conqueror elite burials: 16% East Asian mtDNA, 84% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
H: 33%
T: 9% (Sargat elite: 43%)
U5: 9%
A: 7% (Sargat elite: 10%)
J: 7%
U4: 7%
D: 5%
U: 5%
C: 2% (Sargat elite: 26%)
B: 2%
X: 2%
V: 2%
U8: 2%
U3: 2%
R: 2%
JT: 2%

mtDNA from Conqueror common people burials (Harta): 32% East Asian mtDNA, 68% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
H: 38%
D: 11%
A: 11% (Sargat elite: 10%)
C: 5% (Sargat elite: 10%)
V: 5%
T: 5% (Sargat elite: 43%)
U5: 5%
U: 5%
U8: 5%
N1a: 5%
U7: 5%

mtDNA from Conqueror common people burials: 5% East Asian mtDNA, 95% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
H: 32%
T: 13% (Sargat elite: 43%)
U5: 11%
U3: 5%
U7: 5%
V: 5%
R: 5%
N1b: 5%
M: 5%
J: 5%
HV: 5%

mtDNA form present Hungarian population: 1% East Asian mtDNA, 99% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
H: 37% (Conqueror: 32%)
J: 10% (Conqueror: 1%)
T: 8% (Conqueror: 12%)
U5: 10% (Conqueror: 9%)
K: 8%
W: 7%
V: 6% (Conqueror: 1%)
U4: 4% (Conqueror: 4%)
U: 4% (Conqueror: 1%)
HV: 3%
I: 2% (Conqueror: 1%)
M: 1% (Conqueror: 1%)
preV: 1% (Conqueror: 1%)
source (http://www.tte.hu/toertenelemtanitas/toertenelemtanarok-orszagos-konferenciaja/7075-els-rajzvazlatok-a-honfoglalo-magyarok-genetikai-mintazatarol)

ancient common Hungarians mtDNA: unknown
conqueror common Hungarians mtDNA: 14% East Asian mtDNA, 86% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
present common Hungarians mtDNA: 1% East Asian mtDNA, 99% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
difference between the conqueror and the present common Hungarian population: 37% (mostly K, W and more J and V)

ancient Hungarian elite mtDNA: 57% East Asian mtDNA, 43% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
conqueror Hungarian elite mtDNA: 16% East Asian mtDNA, 84% (Central and West) Eurasian mtDNA
present Hungarian elite mtDNA: unknown

And important, that we do not have enough ancient samples!

That Sargat culture=Ugric people is far from unquestionable

[blogen]

That Sargat culture=Ugric people is far from unquestionable

Sargat culture = Magyars. The Ugric disunity occurred before the Sargat culture yet.

[robar]

Sargat culture = Magyars. The Ugric disunity occurred before the Sargat culture yet.
no, there is not enough evidence for that in my oppinion,. but we are going off-topic ..,

[blogen]

The Russians and the Hungarians agree in this (Sargat was basically* Ugor/Magyar).

*some eastern part of the culture were Iranians and Samoyed ones possibly, but the Sargat horizont was big, like the Danube valley from the Black Forest to the Iron gate.

[Stears]

so what, slavo-goths? I assume you must be significantly balkan as well.

Wrong, Balkan contain serious ratio semitic (middle-eastern) genetic influence, which caused their average dark pigmentation.

[riverman]

so what, slavo-goths? I assume you must be significantly balkan as well.

Gothic? No doubtful.

[Stears]

Bravo, hence the identity crisis.

There is no identity crisis in Hungary.

However Balkan people will have identity crisis (due to their less european genetic structure) and their less European culture (orthodox or "eurasian" civilization)
Eastern Slavic people will unable to reconcile their eastern genetic mixature (also they have less european "eurasian" orthodox cultural background.)

[Cern]

Bravo, hence the identity crisis.

No identity crisis but an "exotic" and strong identity.

[riverman]

edit/ meh.

[riverman]

........

[Dasr]

I look more hungarian than many of you, in fact I belong to the "mongol" hungarians which I doubt any of you do