Moorish genetic legacy?

[TheForeigner]

How much of the genetic ancestry of Iberians, Sicilians and Maltese is of Moorish or North African origin? This is not a troll thread. I don't think NA admixture is shameful or makes anyone less European or inferior. I am just genuinely curious.

[Tietar]

10% of Spaniards have North African genetic markers, 20% of Near East (mainly Jewish). 70% are among the purest Europeans along with Irish and Welsh.

https://k34.kn3.net/taringa/5/7/7/1/5/1/0/delabase666/22B.jpg

This percentage will decrease in Spain and Europe as the population is progressively replaced by Arabs and Africans. In the future only the upper class will be pure European.

[TheForeigner]

Is the NA in Spaniards chiefly Moorish or is it much older? Some might be from Carthaginians too and also from prehistoric migrations.

[Methuselah]

10% of Spaniards have North African genetic markers, 20% of Near East (mainly Jewish). 70% are among the purest Europeans along with Irish and Welsh.

https://k34.kn3.net/taringa/5/7/7/1/5/1/0/delabase666/22B.jpg

This percentage will decrease in Spain and Europe as the population is progressively replaced by Arabs and Africans. In the future only the upper class will be pure European.

Interesting! Hey, since you have probably seen more Mediterranean people than me, i wanted to ask if my favourite musicians have any of that North African or Middle Eastern vibe in them.
What do you think? Or is that vibe they have more Gypsy type of thing? :) Here is Steve Van Zandt 71873 and Julian Casablancas 71874

[CertifiedCracker]

Regardless of what anyone says, those dark Medeterranean folks didnt just come outta nowhere. Its pretty well accepted that in areas conquered by the Moors, folks tend to be darker in terms of skin tone.

[Kamal900]

Regardless of what anyone says, those dark Medeterranean folks didnt just come outta nowhere. Its pretty well accepted that in areas conquered by the Moors, folks tend to be darker in terms of skin tone.

Blood is thicker than water, yes.

[brennus dux gallorum]

hard to say, as many members claim that neolithic dna itself is MENA, and if that is true then we can't estimate which part of "mena dna" is neolithic and which part is "moorish". But if we consider historical facts, like that a christian-muslim couple was prohibited to have christian children, then christian descendants were not affected by moorish admixture, and any connection with NA can be NF, which means 0% moorish admixture in all of them

neolithic btw even in South france represents 50% of DNA, which means that even people from this area are "half mena", I repeat, if we adopt this view of neolithic=mena (i don't have personal opinion about this issue, i simply don't know if NF were MENA)

[TheForeigner]

But many Muslims converted to Christianity after the Christians reconquered these lands. I wonder if Sicily and Malta received any Moorish genetic contribution.

[TheForeigner]

Most likely the modest SSA in Iberians, Sicilians and Maltese is from converted Moors.

[Demon Revival]

Around 1/8 of ancestry of Spaniards is from Moorish conquests.

[Tietar]

Most likely the modest SSA in Iberians, Sicilians and Maltese is from converted Moors.


Around 1/8 of ancestry of Spaniards is from Moorish conquests.

false.

in the northwest of Spain it is much higher than in the southeast, in Galicia it is especially high, instead in Granada (the last Muslim stronghold where the Muslims took refuge for 200 years) is residual. The Moors converted were expelled in the 17th century

There is a theory that during the ethnic cleansing the Muslims who managed to escape the expulsion went to the north to take refuge, but it is a bit absurd to go to Galicia where the Andalusian accent would give them away.

so the other theory that is thousands of years old, is more reasonable

[TheForeigner]

So both the bulk of the North African and SSA in Iberians, as well as perhaps Sicilians and Maltese, is due to prehistoric migrations from North Africa?

[brennus dux gallorum]

So both the bulk of the North African and SSA in Iberians, as well as perhaps Sicilians and Maltese, is due to prehistoric migrations from North Africa?

Not sure about Sicilians (who probably intermixed with the moors) but for Iberia yes, connections are prehistoric, not medieval

[Demon Revival]

false.

in the northwest of Spain it is much higher than in the southeast, in Galicia it is especially high, instead in Granada (the last Muslim stronghold where the Muslims took refuge for 200 years) is residual. The Moors converted were expelled in the 17th century

There is a theory that during the ethnic cleansing the Muslims who managed to escape the expulsion went to the north to take refuge, but it is a bit absurd to go to Galicia where the Andalusian accent would give them away.

so the other theory that is thousands of years old, is more reasonable

Most Spaniards score minor levels of NA%. Except for the Basques. How do you explain that? You can also blame it on neolithic stuff because if that was the case even Frenchmen, Northern Italians, Balkanians and Greeks would have it but they don't. 5-9% is not exactly residual. And this is not the full extent of North African influence since most of the invaders did not score 100% north african but likely had some other European-like components. So this admixture should be increased at least 1/3 to fix that.

Galicians also do not score significantly more NA% than the others. It's just that their E1b1 levels are higher.

http://oi50.tinypic.com/23j0g74.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jShJPPLnoj8/Tgi1k_J7fKI/AAAAAAAAAjs/B0ISKGH9hzg/s1600/ADMIXTURE%2BSpaniards_12.png

You do have moor admixture. Those small East Africa, Neo Africa and North Africa (and possibly Southwest Asian) components indicate a part of moorish admixture. This isn't a neolithic pre-historical stuff. If it were everyone would score it in relatively even levels and they don't. If it were all (southern) Europeans (and by extension basques) would score it and they don't.

[Leto]

How much of the genetic ancestry of Iberians, Sicilians and Maltese is of Moorish or North African origin? This is not a troll thread. I don't think NA admixture is shameful or makes anyone less European or inferior. I am just genuinely curious.
The non-Caucasoid admixture is very minor in Spain. Perhaps in Portugal it is more significant, especially on the islands. Spaniards are 98%+ Caucasoid. See the recent results of the user Polaciones.

[TheForeigner]

The non-Caucasoid admixture is very minor in Spain. Perhaps in Portugal it is more significant, especially on the islands. Spaniards are 98%+ Caucasoid. See the recent results of the user Polaciones.

And do you think them and Sicilians got their SSA from Moors or from prehistoric migrations?

[Leto]

And do you think them and Sicilians got their SSA from Moors or from prehistoric migrations?
I don't know. Probably both.

[Cristiano viejo]

Around 1/8 of ancestry of Spaniards is from Moorish conquests.

Sure.



Galicians also do not score significantly more NA% than the others. It's just that their E1b1 levels are higher.
Again you are inventing things https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JVGdg2UsN3jYWgaoxAZu-QsAmuCaq3kT7FvqSXwUsAA/pubhtml
Galicians score more SSA than Andalusians, in fact they are the 3rd region in that, whatever SSA means.

[Demon Revival]

Sure.



Again you are inventing things https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JVGdg2UsN3jYWgaoxAZu-QsAmuCaq3kT7FvqSXwUsAA/pubhtml
Galicians score more SSA than Andalusians, in fact they are the 3rd region in that, whatever SSA means.

Simple, it's because the North Africans that went there were more nigga (Tuaregs and such) and all the others in Andalusia and elsewhere were more coastal-like.

[TheForeigner]

Simple, it's because the North Africans that went there were more nigga (Tuaregs and such) and all the others in Andalusia and elsewhere were more coastal-like.

Very unlikely that Tuaregs went to Moorish Spain. There were also prehistoric migrations from North Africa.

[Demon Revival]

Very unlikely that Tuaregs went to Moorish Spain. There were also prehistoric migrations from North Africa.

All prehistoric exchange happened from north >> south and not otherwise. Moorish invasion was the first time it happened the other way around. Also, regions in Sicily that were also Moor dominated also show NA%.

[Cristiano viejo]

Simple, it's because the North Africans that went there were more nigga (Tuaregs and such) and all the others in Andalusia and elsewhere were more coastal-like.
Tuaregs, lol... do you know what the Tuaregs are?? Tuaregs were not in Iberia, capullo.


All prehistoric exchange happened from north >> south and not otherwise. Moorish invasion was the first time it happened the other way around. Also, regions in Sicily that were also Moor dominated also show NA%.

No, not true, stop trying to seem an expert about Spain, you are not. Navarra was ruled by Muslims but they dont score NA.

[Tietar]

Most Spaniards score minor levels of NA%. Except for the Basques. How do you explain that? You can also blame it on neolithic stuff because if that was the case even Frenchmen, Northern Italians, Balkanians and Greeks would have it but they don't. 5-9% is not exactly residual.

that map is an estimate, in Granada it is 2%, in other parts less than 1% as in the rest of Europe.

It is obvious that if it were a recent mixture of Muslims it would be the same in the Basque country as in any part of northern Spain. But above all it would be much more in the south.

[Damião de Góis]

Most likely the modest SSA in Iberians, Sicilians and Maltese is from converted Moors.

Just curious but it's about the 3rd or 4th time you ask about this. You even sent me PMs.

Shouldn't you be more worried about the gyspy admixture in romanians or something?

[TheForeigner]

Just curious but it's about the 3rd or 4th time you ask about this. You even sent me PMs.

Shouldn't you be more worried about the gyspy admixture in romanians or something?

There isn't any Gypsy admixture in Romanians and I am asking where it comes from(your admixture).

[Sikeliot]

(West-Central) Sicilians have some North African ancestry due to proximity to Tunisia, which means that both during the Arab conquest and previously during Carthaginian rule, whatever settlement took place from Tunisia would have brought Sub-Saharan, West Med, and Natufian type ancestry. The same should be true for Iberia.

[Damião de Góis]

There isn't any Gypsy admixture in Romanians and I am asking where it comes from(your admixture).

Hahaha

[Leto]

On Eurogenes the Northeast African in mainland Spain ranges between 0.31% and 2.01% and the Sub-Saharan between 0.04% and 1.22%. Portugal is 1.72% and 1.04%, respectively.

[Cristiano viejo]

Just curious but it's about the 3rd or 4th time you ask about this. You even sent me PMs.


Same here. Foreigner is the typical Romanian: it seems that he is obsessed with Spain like the 700.000 of his countrymen we have here.

[GiCa]

Iberians have more..:D

[Leto]

Same here. Foreigner is the typical Romanian: it seems that he is obsessed with Spain like the 700.000 of his countrymen we have here.
Rumanos learn the language and assimilate in Southern Europe the fastest, as far as I know. So let that rumano invade your country. :lol:
By the way, Foreigner has swamped me with questions as well. Are these people white, are these people caucasoid, how much mongoloid is this group, how much South Asian is that group, etc., etc. LOL

[Cristiano viejo]

Iberians have more..:D
South Italians have more :D


On Eurogenes the Northeast African in mainland Spain ranges between 0.31% and 2.01% and the Sub-Saharan between 0.04% and 1.22%. Portugal is 1.72% and 1.04%, respectively.
How much does North African Russia score? :rolleyes:


Rumanos learn the language and assimilate in Southern Europe the fastest, as far as I know. So let that rumano invade your country. :lol:


Sorry, I dislike that idea and they even dont assimilate, they have that Eastern/primitive mentality forever.

[GiCa]

South Italians have more :D


How much does North African Russia score? :rolleyes:



Sorry, I dislike that idea and they even dont assimilate, they have that Eastern/primitive mentality forever.

Oh no.. :D read all the scientific papers.. It s you who have more

[Cristiano viejo]

Oh no.. :D read all the scientific papers.. It s you who have more

Depend of the region. Of course South Italians have more than regions like Aragón, Vascongadas or Catalonia.
And I am not including Sicilians...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JVGdg2UsN3jYWgaoxAZu-QsAmuCaq3kT7FvqSXwUsAA/pubhtml

[GiCa]

Depend of the region. Of course South Italians have more than regions like Aragón, Vascongadas or Catalonia.
And I am not including Sicilians...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JVGdg2UsN3jYWgaoxAZu-QsAmuCaq3kT7FvqSXwUsAA/pubhtml

No. They Don t. Just those from the basque country have less. But already aragonese have it more than south Italians.

Probably those who could have more are west Sicilians.. But west Sicilians doesn't t mean whole if south Italy..

The rest of South Italy have it less than all part s of Spain Portugal except basques.

[Cristiano viejo]

No. They Don t. Just those from the basque country have less. But already aragonese have it more than south Italians.



I stopped to read there. Make a favour to yourself and watch the fuckin link I posted.
Aragón scores 0,24%, Abruzzo 0,28% and South Italy 0,79%.

[GiCa]

I stopped to read there. Make a favour to yourself and watch the fuckin link I posted.
Aragón scores 0,24%, Abruzzo 0,28% and South Italy 0,79%.

Probably it s aragonese near basques XD

You however score it more. Expecially Portugal

[MercifulServant]

0%

[Cristiano viejo]

Probably it s aragonese near basques XD

You however score it more. Expecially Portugal

No, South Italians do :D

[GiCa]

No, South Italians do :D

No. You do.

[Cristiano viejo]

No. You do.

I already showed South Italians do, not my problem that you dont like it.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Probably it s aragonese near basques XD

You however score it more. Expecially Portugal

Yet you are genetically closer to Africans and MUCH closer to middle-easterners than us. :thumb001: Must hurt...:suicide:

[GiCa]

Yet you are genetically closer to Africans and MUCH closer to middle-easterners than us. :thumb001: Must hurt...:suicide:

No.. Actually you are closer to Maghrebians by genes so you are closer to africans than us.

West med gene is a trans euri-maghreb component.

In moroccans it s above 20% reaching easily 25% with probably some isolated population at 30%. So you have more to do with them starting from genetics, going to toponims, architecture, word origins, etc..
:bored::bored::bored:

Ah and yes, of course closer also in geographic proximity

You are not north africans but in the stupid you are more race you win

[Sebastianus Rex]

No.. Actually you are closer to Maghrebians by genes so you are closer to africans than us.

West med gene is a trans euri-maghreb component.

In moroccans it s above 20% reaching easily 25% with probably some isolated population at 30%. So you have more to do with them starting from genetics, going to toponims, architecture, word origins, etc..
:bored::bored::bored:

Ah and yes, of course closer also in geographic proximity

You are not north africans but in the stupid you are more race you win

Sorry but your fantasies & latitudism don't apply to science, all genetic proximity tables and PCA plots put you closer to Africans and much closer to middle-easterners. No exceptions. :shrug:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15V3.png

http://pichoster.net/images/2014/02/13/Eurasia%20PCA.png

https://i.imgur.com/ktl75lN.jpg

[GiCa]

Sorry but your fantasies & latitudism don't apply to science, all genetic proximity tables and PCA plots put you closer to Africans and much closer to middle-easterners. No exceptions. :shrug:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15V3.png

http://pichoster.net/images/2014/02/13/Eurasia%20PCA.png

https://i.imgur.com/ktl75lN.jpg

Well you are closer to Maghrebians than us.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Well you are closer to Maghrebians than us.

If you are that much blind then use a compass for God sake. :picard2:

[Cristiano viejo]

If you are that much blind then use a compass for God sake. :picard2:

GiCa denies the undeniable xD. Few posts above, after I posted how South Italians score more than three times SSA than Aragonese, she still claimed the opposite :lol:

She also claimed in past she is lighter than Isco, until that other users apart from me, corrected her :laugh:

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

Cristiano Viejo,

Did you take a genetic test ?
If so, that would be interesting to share the results.
I hope they will confirm you're "un castellano de la España más honda y profunda"

Best regards.

[Leto]

...
Contribute here
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?235357-Eurogenes-K13-(Kabyle)-Algeria

[Sikeliot]

This is ridiculous. Both Iberians AND Sicilians/Calabrese have affinity to North africans.

[Tietar]

This is ridiculous. Both Iberians AND Sicilians/Calabrese have affinity to North africans.

this is false, as a large study published in 'American Journal of Human Genetics' showed, only 10% of Iberians have characteristics in their DNA shared with North Africa, which is logical due to the proximity, but it can not even be said that those characteristics are really North African, and much less Moorish.

So this shit to include Spaniards, people must forget in this forum, if you want to find true affinity North African population in Europe look in France or Belgium.

[Maguzanci]

https://i.imgur.com/ktl75lN.jpg

Hmm, Amerindian samples in this PCA are too southern shifted than where they should be located. They should be located closer to the Kirgiz clusters with some Hakas samples. Here they are even more southern shifted than the Altaians when usually they are more in similar positions. At least, Amerindians in this PCA should be in parallel positions to the Australoids not more southern and shift towards the "Yellow Race" cluster.

https://s14.postimg.org/unglhooo1/scad31.jpg

But I have discussed this a bit with David in Eurogenes and he told me it has something to do with the extreme genetic driftness and isolation of Amerindians that makes shifted more southern than the positions on PCA that they should be located in:


The plot positions of the individuals and populations, and the resulting clusters and clines, that you're seeing on these PCA reflect pairwise genetic relationships between all of the samples, and all of the things that this entails.

So they aren't just the result of certain levels of ancient ancestral components, but also ancient and recent demographic events, like, for example, rapid expansions of small founder populations, and resulting genetic drift.

Such relatively recent genetic drift can be so extreme that it can dominate certain dimensions of the PCA, and completely mask more ancient relationships, especially when some populations are oversampled relative to others.

This is essentially why many Amerindians are being pushed so far to the left in Eigenvector 1 on the Eurasia & Americas PCA, despite their ancient West Eurasian ancestry.

However, looking at more dimensions than just two or three, which is all that we can plot visually, by using them to model ancestry proportions, is likely to reveal the western shift in Amerindians compared to East Eurasians. That's because we'd be using dimensions in which the Amerindian-specific genetic drift has very little or no impact.

But I've done PCA in the past in which Amerindians appear significantly West Eurasian in the first two dimensions, and that;s because I used only one Amerindian sample in each run. See here...

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2016/09/the-eurasians-idiots-guide.html

[Cristiano viejo]

Cristiano Viejo,

Did you take a genetic test ?
If so, that would be interesting to share the results.
I hope they will confirm you're "un castellano de la España más honda y profunda"

Best regards.

I dont need a test, I already am a castellano de la España más honda y profunda.

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

I dont need a test, I already am a castellano de la España más honda y profunda.

Encantado :thumb001:.

[Leto]

Cristiano Viejo,

Did you take a genetic test ?
If so, that would be interesting to share the results.
I hope they will confirm you're "un castellano de la España más honda y profunda"

Best regards.
I'm a third party here and I'm not a fan of the user CV, but make no mistake, you and Spaniards are absolutely different, they are not just Catholic Moors. Different genetics, different looks, different culture. This isn't even debatable.

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

I'm a third party here and I'm not a fan of the user CV, but make no mistake, you and Spaniards are absolutely different, they are not just Catholic Moors. Different genetics, different looks, different culture. This isn't even debatable.

I find your comment a bit funny.
As Spaniards say : ¿quién te ha dado vela en este entierro? " ;)
Who said that Spaniards and North Africans were identical ? The two cultures are indeed distinct and I don't really need your point of view to realize it. I probably know Spain better than you do.
However, because of Geography and History, there are shared elements and "this isn't even debatable" as you say. People often think of Arabic loanwords in Spanish but what about the other way round? Did you know that Neo-Arabic spoken by Andalusi Muslims had a Romance substratum? It was brought to North Africa and some basic words in Moroccan Arabic /Berber are romance (the word for corner, table, eat, mole...). Do you know that Romanized Iberians were the second most important human component in Mauretania Tingitanias cities? Do you know that some Moroccans families are still wearing Iberian last names ? Do you know that Islam and Christianity share the same "characters", the same "myths" and so one ?

Last but not least : I asked him if he took a genetic test to know more about his background. When we claim things as he does, the least we can do is knowing more about his genetics ����

[Cristiano viejo]

Last but not least : I asked him if he took a genetic test to know more about his background. When we claim things as he does, the least we can do is knowing more about his genetics ����[/FONT]

I dont need genetic to claim what I claim: I am 100% Spaniard and proud.
Live with it.

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

I dont need genetic to claim what I claim: I am 100% Spaniard and proud.
Live with it.

"Live with it "? ?? ������������������
Thanks for making my day, dude.
I don't blame your attitude. I'm sure you've lived things that made you as narrow- minded and illogical as you are.
I'm just glad that the other members are more lucid than you.
Un saludo.

[Cristiano viejo]

"Live with it "? ?? ������������������
Thanks for making my day, dude.
I don't blame your attitude. I'm sure you've lived things that made you as narrow- minded and illogical as you are.
I'm just glad that the other members are more lucid than you.
Un saludo.

Worry for your criminal ethnicity and not for my or my genetic.

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

Let's be honest : I don't worry about you. I was just asking myself how a narrow-minded person could be present in such a forum for years without being banned. Otherwise, I wouldn't deign to reply to your comments as you seem to understand History, Genetics and so one from your very narrow brain. It would be a regrettable waste of time

[Cristiano viejo]

Let's be honest : I don't worry about you. I was just asking myself how a narrow-minded person could be present in such a forum for years without being banned. Otherwise, I wouldn't deign to reply to your comments as you seem to understand History, Genetics and so one from your very narrow brain. It would be a regrettable waste of time

hahaha, a new user who plus is not European, talking about banning veteran users who plus are Europeans... xD

THE REAL QUESTION IS WHY YOU WERE NOT BANNED OF EUROPE, IMMIGRANT :thumb001:

[Leto]

I find your comment a bit funny.
As Spaniards say : ¿quién te ha dado vela en este entierro? " ;)
Who said that Spaniards and North Africans were identical ? The two cultures are indeed distinct and I don't really need your point of view to realize it. I probably know Spain better than you do.
However, because of Geography and History, there are shared elements and "this isn't even debatable" as you say. People often think of Arabic loanwords in Spanish but what about the other way round? Did you know that Neo-Arabic spoken by Andalusi Muslims had a Romance substratum? It was brought to North Africa and some basic words in Moroccan Arabic /Berber are romance (the word for corner, table, eat, mole...). Do you know that Romanized Iberians were the second most important human component in Mauretania Tingitanias cities? Do you know that some Moroccans families are still wearing Iberian last names ? Do you know that Islam and Christianity share the same "characters", the same "myths" and so one ?

Last but not least : I asked him if he took a genetic test to know more about his background. When we claim things as he does, the least we can do is knowing more about his genetics ����
I'm aware of it all. However, you're obviously trying to prove that Moroccans somehow 'belong' in Spain or even have a right to claim something there. Which I definitely disagree with. I'll leave you with Cristiano viejo though.

[Cristiano viejo]

I'm aware of it all. However, you're obviously trying to prove that Moroccans somehow 'belong' in Spain or even have a right to claim something there. Which I definitely disagree with. I'll leave you with Cristiano viejo though.

lol! he could claim all what he wants (so Muslims do, really)... the thing is that he has nothing to do with Spain, even being an immigrant parasi... living here.

[Bobby Martnen]

lol! he could claim all what he wants (so Muslims do, really)... the thing is that he has nothing to do with Spain, even being an immigrant parasi... living here.

Envy boy.

[Smeagol]

There's hardly any, most Moors were native Europeans converted to Islam.

[Bobby Martnen]

There's hardly any, most Moors were native Europeans converted to Islam.

I thought they were from Morocco, and that's how they got their name.

[Smeagol]

I thought they were from Morocco, and that's how they got their name.

Initially yes, but they were later outnumbered by native converts. The Leaders were mostly Arabs and Berbers though.

[Leto]

Initially yes, but they were later outnumbered by native converts. The Leaders were mostly Arabs and Berbers though.
Yeah, I imagine during the last couple of centuries of the Moorish rule they were kind of isolated from the Muslim world geographically, so there was little immigration to Iberia from outside Europe.

[Cristiano viejo]

Yeah, I imagine during the last couple of centuries of the Moorish rule they were kind of isolated from the Muslim world geographically, so there was little immigration to Iberia from outside Europe.

Your friend Empecinado made a thread about how the descendants of the Moors expelled from Spain and that live in North Africa since then, look nowadays, 400 years later.

It seems that they are a different group, quite isolated or something so, in North Africa, famous for their pale skin colour and their light eyes, unlike native North Africans.

Some examples:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CFiGKTS3rTc/TZDB0zwSEvI/AAAAAAAAADs/fspQ3id5Sbw/s1600/176191_114149925328917_100002017313218_109134_5221 45_o.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-R2FbE8Qx2HA/Tt4dQyjdMBI/AAAAAAAAAaE/ofnVeHbN1gM/s1600/Niama_Moumen%255B1%255D.jpg
http://www.rtve.es/files/74-98136-FOTO_NOTA_PRENSA_399/hasna.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cWaVZ2bhDH4/TdfJK3NMgGI/AAAAAAAAChM/w11gMPNAOno/s1600/Vannier-AC-Belhaj.jpg
http://6e.img.v4.skyrock.net/5966/49305966/pics/2631596912_1.jpg
http://webzine.unitedfashionforpeace.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/AVT_Abdelwahab-Meddeb_8055.jpeg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-C2iiDRf2iLg/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAACE/OJkXEL-uGCs/photo.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2hq71mx.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/25gv6hf.jpg
http://www.smzbiss.org/%5Cpublic%5Cmedia%5Cs%20m%20zbiss%203.jpg
http://lobertrindsay.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/m1.jpg
http://lobertrindsay.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/m16.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hHZmnqMGUsE/Tg3URDLVC-I/AAAAAAAAAkc/WwYtXPHZq2s/s640/Cover.jpg
http://s7.postimg.org/jic1kulyz/morisca2.jpg
http://s7.postimg.org/8k0s2nxdn/morisca3.png
http://s7.postimg.org/cho1s2k6z/moriscos3.png
http://i43.tinypic.com/314tr0i.jpg
http://31.media.tumblr.com/c13ea9080a43515981aa79634d6f5022/tumblr_mojem9zyEg1rgvqsso1_500.jpg
http://southpacificberets.com/resources/Belhassen2.jpg

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?88192-Classify-real-Moors

If they look so 400 years later and living in North Africa, imagine how they would be before the 1600 when they lived in Spain :rolleyes:

And they, the so-called Muladies (native Iberians converted into Islam), during centuries not even were the most numerous group that lived under Muslim rules... the most numerous group were the Mozarabs (native Iberian Christians living under Muslim rule).

Mozarabs are the example that the vast majority of the population was native, since they constituted in the year 900 more than 75% of the total society under Muslim rule.

Many of them fled to the North under Christian domination, while others were converted to Islam, becoming Muladies (the people of the photos).
In the year 960, Mozarabs still constituted 50% of the total society under Muslim rule.
Mozarabs + Muladies = the absolute vast majority of the Caliphate society.

[Mingle]

(West-Central) Sicilians have some North African ancestry due to proximity to Tunisia, which means that both during the Arab conquest and previously during Carthaginian rule, whatever settlement took place from Tunisia would have brought Sub-Saharan, West Med, and Natufian type ancestry. The same should be true for Iberia.

How much? 5%?

What about Iberians? Would they get about 2% Moorish?

[Mingle]

I thought they were from Morocco, and that's how they got their name.

Morocco comes from the native name of their city Marrakesh.

The country Mauritania or "Mooritania" is in reference to the Moors. Originally Morocco was called Mauritania but then the name came to be wrongly referred to the land south of Morocco.

[Bobby Martnen]

Morocco comes from the native name of their city Marrakesh.

The country Mauritania or "Mooritania" is in reference to the Moors. Originally Morocco was called Mauritania but then the name came to be wrongly referred to the land south of Morocco.

Interesting, but Cristiano is still a Moorish leftover.

Where is he? The forum is boring when he's not here to fight with...

[Sikeliot]

Morocco comes from the native name of their city Marrakesh.

The country Mauritania or "Mooritania" is in reference to the Moors. Originally Morocco was called Mauritania but then the name came to be wrongly referred to the land south of Morocco.

The name Morocco comes from the Spanish name for the country, Marruecos.

[Bobby Martnen]

The name Morocco comes from the Spanish name for the country, Marruecos.

Suck on that, Cristiano Morisco!

[Mingle]

The name Morocco comes from the Spanish name for the country, Marruecos.

But the Spanish Marruecos comes from the Arabic Marrakesh.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Marruecos#Etymology

From Medieval Latin Marocum, form Arabic مَرَّاكُش‎ (marrākuš, “Marrakesh”), the name of former capital (Marrakesh), from Berber.

Though you're probably right in that the usage of the word in reference to the entire country was a Spanish thing.

[Sikeliot]

But the Spanish Marruecos comes from the Arabic Marrakesh.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Marruecos#Etymology

From Medieval Latin Marocum, form Arabic مَرَّاكُش‎ (marrākuš, “Marrakesh”), the name of former capital (Marrakesh), from Berber.

Though you're probably right in that the usage of the word in reference to the entire country was a Spanish thing.

Yes. In Roman times, the country was called Mauritania.

[Bobby Martnen]

Though you're probably right in that the usage of the word in reference to the entire country was a Spanish thing.

Yes, of course, because that is where Spaniards originally come from.

[Mingle]

Yes. In Roman times, the country was called Mauritania.

Mauritania and the Western Sahara were one country. They are both Arabized Zanega Amazighs. Mauritanians and Western Saharans are both the same people. Their country was originally called "Al-Shinqit".

[alnortedelsur]

Yes, of course, because that is where Spaniards originally come from.

Only in your wet dreams, Johnny.

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

It comes from Portuguese "Marrocos". Obviously, the origin is Marrakech, which was once the capital of the kingdom (when coastal cities were ruled by Portugal).

[User50]

The Moorish genetic and cultural impact on Spain is highly overrated. They didn't leave many buildings or impact on the Spanish language. Nor did they leave much of a genetic legacy. They also destroyed Christian churches and forced Spanish women into sex slavery. Their supposed intellectual achievements were mostly stolen from Christians and Jews who worked in their palaces. The Moors are correctly remembered in Spain as a bunch of quarter-nigger beasts. Unfortunately people in other Western countries (especially the United States) create a fraudulent impression of the Moors in order to defend Islam.

Most of the MENA blood in Spain is from earlier groups like Carthage. The Carthagians predated the camel and growth in trans-Saharan travel, and thus were not nigger admixed. (Unlike the Moors) The Carthagians were a civilized and respectable group that brought civilization. The Carthagians were not a bunch of quadroon beasts like the Moors were.

The Moors have a bigger genetic impact on Latin America than on Spain. Since some Moors (like Jews) fled to Latin America to avoid persecution.

[Cristiano viejo]

3% in Bobby Moortnen and 4% in his Africanized mother.

I dont want to think in his grandpa, etc etc etc etc

[Leto]

The Moorish genetic and cultural impact on Spain is highly overrated. They didn't leave many buildings or impact on the Spanish language. Nor did they leave much of a genetic legacy. They also destroyed Christian churches and forced Spanish women into sex slavery. Their supposed intellectual achievements were mostly stolen from Christians and Jews who worked in their palaces. The Moors are correctly remembered in Spain as a bunch of quarter-nigger beasts. Unfortunately people in other Western countries (especially the United States) create a fraudulent impression of the Moors in order to defend Islam.

Most of the MENA blood in Spain is from earlier groups like Carthage. The Carthagians predated the camel and growth in trans-Saharan travel, and thus were not nigger admixed. (Unlike the Moors) The Carthagians were a civilized and respectable group that brought civilization. The Carthagians were not a bunch of quadroon beasts like the Moors were.

The Moors have a bigger genetic impact on Latin America than on Spain. Since some Moors (like Jews) fled to Latin America to avoid persecution.
What makes you think they were all "quarter-niggers" to begin with? Islam is not a race, I think many were even white(ish).

[User50]

What makes you think they were all "quarter-niggers" to begin with? Islam is not a race, I think many were even white(ish).

I was talking about the Moorish troops. Not the Iberian converts to Islam. (Who I know were sometimes also referred to as Moors.)

[Leto]

I was talking about the Moorish troops. Not the Iberian converts to Islam. (Who I know were sometimes also referred to as Moors.)
I am not sure the Maghrebi population was the same back in 718 as it is in 2018.

[User50]

I am not sure the Maghrebi population was the same back in 718 as it is in 2018.

Maybe not in 718. But by 1492 Maghrebis were pretty nigger admixed since they had mixed with their slaves a lot by then.

The Almoravids, who are the most reviled of the Moor groups, were especially nigger admixed since they were centered in what today is the southern Morocco/northern Mauritania area. They even had a handful of full blooded nigger troops from as far south as modern Senegal.

[Bobby Martnen]

3% in Bobby Moortnen and 4% in his Africanized mother.

I dont want to think in his grandpa, etc etc etc etc

Cristiano Morisco.

[Mingle]

I am not sure the Maghrebi population was the same back in 718 as it is in 2018.Most of their SSA and especially East African is fairly ancient. Even Copts have quite a significant amount of SSA.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

[User50]

Most of their SSA and especially East African is fairly ancient. Even Copts have quite a significant amount of SSA.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

The nigger blood in North Africa isn't "ancient" but it mostly dates to about AD 500. When Islam began, and the camel (which made it easier to cross the Sahara) arrived in Africa. It also probably became easier for niggers to cross into North Africa when the Roman Empire was collapsing. (Since that would have eliminated a border patrol.)

Although the Egyptians and Carthagians were not nigger admixed, the Moors were. That's why Egypt and Carthage had a lot more cultural achievements than the Moors did.

[Aren]

How much? 5%?

What about Iberians? Would they get about 2% Moorish?

Only 2%? You have to keep in mind that the Moors didn't just bring SSA and Red Sea-like DNA but also some farmer genes. Using nMone it varies from about 3-4% close to the Pyreneés to 10-11% in the West and South.

"distance%=3.1615"

Spanish_Aragon

Barcin_N,54.2
Yamnaya_Samara,26.6
WHG,12.8
Mozabite,3.4
Yamnaya_Kalmykia,3

"distance%=2.4797"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Barcin_N,53.4
Yamnaya_Samara,16.2
Yamnaya_Kalmykia,13.6
WHG,11.8
Mozabite,5

"distance%=2.1625"

Spanish_Galicia

Barcin_N,48.6
Yamnaya_Samara,28.8
WHG,11.6
Mozabite,11

"distance%=2.3004"

Spanish_Extremadura

Barcin_N,49.8
Yamnaya_Samara,29.2
WHG,10.8
Mozabite,10.2

[Sikeliot]

North African admixture increases in Iberia on an east/west basis, or really, northeast Spain has the lowest, and southern Portugal the most.

[Leto]

North African admixture increases in Iberia on an east/west basis, or really, northeast Spain has the lowest, and southern Portugal the most.
MDLP World gives an average of 2.35% Sub-Saharan for Portugal and 1.8% for Iberia. For comparison Morocco is 28.15% and Mozabites are 23.19%.

[Mingle]

The nigger blood in North Africa isn't "ancient" but it mostly dates to about AD 500. When Islam began, and the camel (which made it easier to cross the Sahara) arrived in Africa. It also probably became easier for niggers to cross into North Africa when the Roman Empire was collapsing. (Since that would have eliminated a border patrol.)

Although the Egyptians and Carthagians were not nigger admixed, the Moors were. That's why Egypt and Carthage had a lot more cultural achievements than the Moors did.

It is ancient. The "pre-Islamic MENAs looked like Italians" is a myth. The Trans-Saharan Slave Trade was alive and well before Islam existed. When Muhammad was a little boy, Arabia had countless Sub-Saharan slaves. Bilal was a pagan when Muhammad was born and he was a Black slave.

Egypt was ruled by Nubians for a period centuries before Islam and Egyptians had massive cultural exchange with the Nubians wayyy before Islam.

[User50]

MDLP World gives an average of 2.35% Sub-Saharan for Portugal and 1.8% for Iberia. For comparison Morocco is 28.15% and Mozabites are 23.19%.

Nobody in Spain score 1.8% SSA. Unless they have a grandparent from Latin America or something. There was one Andalusia kit about 3 weeks ago that had 0.7% SSA. Which is the most I've ever seen on a Spanish kit.

I'm also a little suspicious of a 2.35% SSA average for Portugal. It might be that high in the Lisbon area since that had the highest number of slaves. Not in the rest of Portugal though.

Even the 28% SSA in Morocco seems high. Their SSA is in the 15-20% range, and 28% seems too high.

[Leto]

It is ancient. The "pre-Islamic MENAs looked like Italians" is a myth. The Trans-Saharan Slave Trade was alive and well before Islam existed. When Muhammad was a little boy, Arabia had countless Sub-Saharan slaves. Bilal was a pagan when Muhammad was born and he was a Black slave.

Egypt was ruled by Nubians for a period centuries before Islam and Egyptians had massive cultural exchange with the Nubians wayyy before Islam.
Please don't tell us Egypt was ruled by Negroes. It's laughable.

[Leto]

Nobody in Spain score 1.8% SSA. Unless they have a grandparent from Latin America or something. There was one Andalusia kit about 3 weeks ago that had 0.7% SSA. Which is the most I've ever seen on a Spanish kit.

I'm also a little suspicious of a 2.35% SSA average for Portugal.

Even the 28% SSA in Morocco seems high. Their SSA is in the 15-20% range, and 28% seems too high.
I'm talking about that particular calculator.

[StonyArabia]

Please don't tell us Egypt was ruled by Negroes. It's laughable.

It was though the Nubians managed to conquer it.

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

MDLP World gives an average of 2.35% Sub-Saharan for Portugal and 1.8% for Iberia. For comparison Morocco is 28.15% and Mozabites are 23.19%.

28,15% ?

I just had a look at various Moroccans kits. None of them has more than 22%.
The majority has between 15 and 19%.
How could 28 be the average be ? !

[Mingle]

Please don't tell us Egypt was ruled by Negroes. It's laughable.

The 25th dynasty of Egypt was ruled by Nubians.

[Sikeliot]

It is ancient. The "pre-Islamic MENAs looked like Italians" is a myth. The Trans-Saharan Slave Trade was alive and well before Islam existed. When Muhammad was a little boy, Arabia had countless Sub-Saharan slaves. Bilal was a pagan when Muhammad was born and he was a Black slave.

Egypt was ruled by Nubians for a period centuries before Islam and Egyptians had massive cultural exchange with the Nubians wayyy before Islam.


I do think if you removed the SSA from Berbers, they would be quite close to Sicilians actually. Their East to West Med ratio is very close. The only major differences would be that Sicilians have high Caucasian ancestry, Berbers do not.

[Aren]

It was though the Nubians managed to conquer it.

I though this afro-centric view was trashed with the study that tested some Egyptian mummies and they turned out to be significantly less East African than modern day Egyptians.

[Cristiano viejo]

Nobody in Spain score 1.8% SSA. Unless they have a grandparent from Latin America or something. There was one Andalusia kit about 3 weeks ago that had 0.7% SSA. Which is the most I've ever seen on a Spanish kit.

I'm also a little suspicious of a 2.35% SSA average for Portugal.

Even the 28% SSA in Morocco seems high. Their SSA is in the 15-20% range, and 28% seems too high.
The Spanish average climbs so much due Canarians, who are not ethnic Spaniards.

Without them, the average would be laughable.


Only 2%? You have to keep in mind that the Moors didn't just bring SSA and Red Sea-like DNA but also some farmer genes. Using nMone it varies from about 3-4% close to the Pyreneés to 10-11% in the West and South.


You are dreaming if you think you can find a Spaniard that scores 10% Moorish. Post a single dna test if you are able.

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

I do think if you removed the SSA from Berbers, they would be quite close to Sicilians actually. Their East to West Med ratio is very close. The only major differences would be that Sicilians have high Caucasian ancestry, Berbers do not.

As far as I know, I'm Berber from all sides (at least my 64 great-great-great-great-grandparents) and my West Med is a bit higher than my East Med : 26,38 versus 24,41.
My subsaharian is much much lower : 9,1. Even my North Atlantic is higher : 11,20.

Here are my K13 and Dodecad K12b results : https://imgur.com/a/FU5wA

[Sikeliot]

As far as I know Berber from all sides (at least my 64 great-great-great-great-grandparents) and my West Med is a bit higher than my East Med : 26,38 versus 24,41.
My subsaharian is much much lower : 9,1. Even my North Atlantic is higher : 11,20.

Here are my K13 and Dodecad K12b results : https://imgur.com/a/FU5wA


Post your Eurogenes K15 and K13 oracles?

[Aren]

You are dreaming if you think you can find a Spaniard that scores 10% Moorish. Post a single dna test if you are able.

I just showed you?
I repeat: Moors(if that's the source of North African input in Iberians) didn't just bring SSA and SW Asian-like genes but also some farmer genes, ie West/East Med.

Galicians in Eurogenes K13
Red sea: 4.546666667
SSA: 1.16
Northeast African: 1.256666667

[Sp_loa]

As far as I know, I'm Berber from all sides (at least my 64 great-great-great-great-grandparents) and my West Med is a bit higher than my East Med : 26,38 versus 24,41.
My subsaharian is much much lower : 9,1. Even my North Atlantic is higher : 11,20.

Here are my K13 and Dodecad K12b results : https://imgur.com/a/FU5wA

You do have some Iberian heritage that pops in every test. probably ancient mix, but in some test you are 1/6 Iberian, which is not low. I wonder if you are typical among berbers or more Atypical.

[Leto]

Nobody in Spain score 1.8% SSA. Unless they have a grandparent from Latin America or something. There was one Andalusia kit about 3 weeks ago that had 0.7% SSA. Which is the most I've ever seen on a Spanish kit.

I'm also a little suspicious of a 2.35% SSA average for Portugal. It might be that high in the Lisbon area since that had the highest number of slaves. Not in the rest of Portugal though.

Even the 28% SSA in Morocco seems high. Their SSA is in the 15-20% range, and 28% seems too high.
Try this Portuguese:
M613598

[StonyArabia]

It is ancient. The "pre-Islamic MENAs looked like Italians" is a myth.

Of course it is, we never looked like Italians or any Europeans. If you see European looking people in the MENA they are descendant of European colonizers, product of rape by the various European empires, or slaves from Europe. Real native MENA have always looked the way they are. You have OWD self-hating scum who create lies about their ancestors, as they have not dignity and have disease called Colonial inferiority complex, thankfully this disease is very rare in the Arabian peninsula and Iraq. We destroyed the Portuguese and we never subdued to the British, in fact the British could never colonize Iraq fully, and as for the Arabian peninsula they did indirectly they knew they had no chance to try to directly colonize us. Plus we often looted their scummy Ships

[Leto]

28,15% ?

I just had a look at various Moroccans kits. None of them has more than 22%.
The majority has between 15 and 19%.
How could 28 be the average be ? !
Yes, I agree, it's too high for an average, however I hear Southern Moroccans can be up to 30% SSA due to recent black admixture.

[User50]

Please don't tell us Egypt was ruled by Negroes. It's laughable.

He's referring to the 25th (26th?) dynasty. Which indeed was Nubian.

Granted that it was not a notable dynasty. It probably would hardly be remembered by anybody if it weren't the black dynasty.

[Cristiano viejo]

I just showed you?
I repeat: Moors(if that's the source of North African input in Iberians) didn't just bring SSA and SW Asian-like genes but also some farmer genes, ie West/East Med.

Galicians in Eurogenes K13
Red sea: 4.546666667
SSA: 1.16
Northeast African: 1.256666667
That is not 10% as you claimed, and let me insist: post a single dna test of any random Spaniard that scores such amounts, not an abstract calculator that says nothing.

[Leto]

Of course it is, we never looked like Italians or any Europeans. If you see European looking people in the MENA they are descendant of European colonizers, product of rape by the various European empires, or slaves from Europe. Real native MENA have always looked the way they are.
Bullshit, the ME has varying amount of non-Caucasoid blood. Christians, Druze, Yazidis and Oriental Jews are the purest.
Lol at product of rape or mixing. There was nowhere near enough mixing with Europeans, let alone rape to whiten the population. Such a claim is ridiculous.

[Aren]

Of course it is, we never looked like Italians or any Europeans. If you see European looking people in the MENA they are descendant of European colonizers, product of rape by the various European empires, or slaves from Europe. Real native MENA have always looked the way they are. You have OWD self-hating scum who create lies about their ancestors, as they have not dignity and have disease called Colonial inferiority complex, thankfully this disease is very rare in the Arabian peninsula and Iraq. We destroyed the Portuguese and we never subdued to the British, in fact the British could never colonize Iraq fully, and as for the Arabian peninsula they did indirectly they knew they had no chance to try to directly colonize us. Plus we often looted their scummy Ships

Bro just reading this is embarrasing. If you are an Iraqi Arab there's nothing to be proud of, trust me my family is from Iraq. The horror stories I've heard from my great-grand parents of how the Arabs treated them is just mindblowing. You know there is a reason why ISIS became so big in Iraq in the first place, because they had a lot of support from Sunni Arabs.

[Mingle]

I do think if you removed the SSA from Berbers, they would be quite close to Sicilians actually. Their East to West Med ratio is very close. The only major differences would be that Sicilians have high Caucasian ancestry, Berbers do not.It makes no sense to completely remove all their SSA. While the amount of SSA in North Africa increased in post-Islamic times, there's no way they had no SSA before. Keep in mind that half of their so-called "SSA" is ancient East African. Remember that Proto-Afro-Asiatic originated in Ethiopia.

Also, when I said Italians I was thinking more of the mainstream average Italian, like a Tuscan.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

[Aren]

That is not 10% as you claimed, and let me insist: post a single dna test of any random Spaniard that scores such amounts, not an abstract calculator that says nothing.

What is your problem? Do you think the Moors were 100% SSA?

[FilhoV]

North_Atlantic 36.9
2 West_Med 26.86
3 East_Med 15.65
4 Baltic 9.37
5 Red_Sea 3.36
6 West_Asian 2.73
7 Sub-Saharan 2.04
8 Northeast_African 1.87
9 Amerindian 0.78
10 Oceanian 0.45

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Extremadura 2.64
2 Portuguese 3.42
3 Spanish_Murcia 3.66
4 Spanish_Andalucia 4.22
5 Spanish_Valencia 4.74
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 4.83
7 Spanish_Galicia 4.95
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 5.32
9 Spanish_Cataluna 5.96
10 Spanish_Cantabria 7.29
11 North_Italian 7.83
12 Spanish_Aragon 8
13 Southwest_French 9.75
14 French 12.44
15 Tuscan 13.22
16 West_German 18.57
17 South_Dutch 18.62
18 West_Sicilian 19.54
19 French_Basque 19.94
20 Italian_Abruzzo 20.56

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.8% Spanish_Valencia + 12.2% Mozabite_Berber @ 1.5
2 88% Spanish_Valencia + 12% Moroccan @ 1.52
3 87.7% Spanish_Valencia + 12.3% Algerian @ 1.54
4 88.1% Spanish_Valencia + 11.9% Tunisian @ 1.69
5 94.7% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.3% Tunisian @ 1.88
6 82.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 17.4% Libyan_Jewish @ 1.9
7 94.3% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 1.94
8 82.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 17.4% Tunisian_Jewish @ 1.94
9 94.7% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.3% Algerian @ 1.95
10 94.8% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.2% Mozabite_Berber @ 1.97
11 94.3% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.7% Italian_Jewish @ 1.98
12 91.3% Spanish_Murcia + 8.7% Mozabite_Berber @ 2
13 85.4% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.6% Moroccan @ 2
14 91.5% Spanish_Murcia + 8.5% Tunisian @ 2
15 85.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.8% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.02
16 95.2% Spanish_Extremadura + 4.8% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.03
17 95.2% Spanish_Extremadura + 4.8% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.04
18 86.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 13.8% Egyptian @ 2.05
19 94.2% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.8% Ashkenazi @ 2.05
20 92.2% Spanish_Extremadura + 7.8% West_Sicilian @ 2.06

[Sikeliot]

North_Atlantic 36.9
2 West_Med 26.86
3 East_Med 15.65
4 Baltic 9.37
5 Red_Sea 3.36
6 West_Asian 2.73
7 Sub-Saharan 2.04
8 Northeast_African 1.87
9 Amerindian 0.78
10 Oceanian 0.45

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Extremadura 2.64
2 Portuguese 3.42
3 Spanish_Murcia 3.66
4 Spanish_Andalucia 4.22
5 Spanish_Valencia 4.74
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 4.83
7 Spanish_Galicia 4.95
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 5.32
9 Spanish_Cataluna 5.96
10 Spanish_Cantabria 7.29
11 North_Italian 7.83
12 Spanish_Aragon 8
13 Southwest_French 9.75
14 French 12.44
15 Tuscan 13.22
16 West_German 18.57
17 South_Dutch 18.62
18 West_Sicilian 19.54
19 French_Basque 19.94
20 Italian_Abruzzo 20.56

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.8% Spanish_Valencia + 12.2% Mozabite_Berber @ 1.5
2 88% Spanish_Valencia + 12% Moroccan @ 1.52
3 87.7% Spanish_Valencia + 12.3% Algerian @ 1.54
4 88.1% Spanish_Valencia + 11.9% Tunisian @ 1.69
5 94.7% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.3% Tunisian @ 1.88
6 82.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 17.4% Libyan_Jewish @ 1.9
7 94.3% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 1.94
8 82.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 17.4% Tunisian_Jewish @ 1.94
9 94.7% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.3% Algerian @ 1.95
10 94.8% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.2% Mozabite_Berber @ 1.97
11 94.3% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.7% Italian_Jewish @ 1.98
12 91.3% Spanish_Murcia + 8.7% Mozabite_Berber @ 2
13 85.4% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.6% Moroccan @ 2
14 91.5% Spanish_Murcia + 8.5% Tunisian @ 2
15 85.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.8% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.02
16 95.2% Spanish_Extremadura + 4.8% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.03
17 95.2% Spanish_Extremadura + 4.8% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.04
18 86.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 13.8% Egyptian @ 2.05
19 94.2% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.8% Ashkenazi @ 2.05
20 92.2% Spanish_Extremadura + 7.8% West_Sicilian @ 2.06


Higher East Med here shows, hence why Abruzzo and Sicily appear in the oracle.

[FilhoV]

Higher East Med here shows, hence why Abruzzo and Sicily appear in the oracle.

Those are mine

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

Post your Eurogenes K15 and K13 oracles?

K15 :

https://i.imgur.com/HFTzbG6.png
https://i.imgur.com/s2ZcHp1.png

K13:

https://i.imgur.com/jTIxs5L.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sPqONif.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JnI4OO8.jpg

[Leto]

Bro just reading this is embarrasing. If you are an Iraqi Arab there's nothing to be proud of, trust me my family is from Iraq. The horror stories I've heard from my great-grand parents of how the Arabs treated them is just mindblowing. You know there is a reason why ISIS became so big in Iraq in the first place, because they had a lot of support from Sunni Arabs.
Fortunately you don't seem to side with fucking Islamists against Europeans. :thumb001: I have nothing against the Assyrians, in fact I like you guys for being an ancient culture unaffected by the Islamist plague.

[StonyArabia]

Bullshit, the ME has varying amount of non-Caucasoid blood. Christians, Druze, Yazidis and Oriental Jews are the purest.
Lol at product of rape or mixing. There was nowhere near enough mixing with Europeans, let alone rape to whiten the population. Such a claim is ridiculous.

Yazidis don't differ from normal Kurds, they are just slightly blonder due to inbreeding. Have you seen Egyptian and ethnic Arab Christians from Jordan and southern Iraq? They are very dark and look nothing like Europeans. The Ethnic Arab Christians from Jordan often claim Bedouin descent, well the Arab Christians in Southern Iraq are descendants of the Lakhmids. Oriental Jews mostly Mizrahim are dark and not light depending on the area they hail from. Since there has been Sephardim and even Ashkenazi migration in some Mideast nations. Iraqi Mizrahim can range in skin tone, those from the south tend to be dark as the local Arabs, well those from the North tend to be lighter, plus they have more of an Armenoid look to them.

There is no question that Europeans have left their impact in some areas such as the Greco-Romans, Crusaders, French and British colonization, and yes there were European and Caucasian slaves in the Mideast. In fact they did not whiten the area, they are simply strangers in the area.

In one Mideast family the sister can look swarthy typical MENA and yet her full blood brother can look "White" or pesudo-European, it's not uncommon in Iraq or even in Yemen where non-Arab mercenaries were brought.

[Leto]

North_Atlantic 36.9
2 West_Med 26.86
3 East_Med 15.65
4 Baltic 9.37
5 Red_Sea 3.36
6 West_Asian 2.73
7 Sub-Saharan 2.04
8 Northeast_African 1.87
9 Amerindian 0.78
10 Oceanian 0.45

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Extremadura 2.64
2 Portuguese 3.42
3 Spanish_Murcia 3.66
4 Spanish_Andalucia 4.22
5 Spanish_Valencia 4.74
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 4.83
7 Spanish_Galicia 4.95
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 5.32
9 Spanish_Cataluna 5.96
10 Spanish_Cantabria 7.29
11 North_Italian 7.83
12 Spanish_Aragon 8
13 Southwest_French 9.75
14 French 12.44
15 Tuscan 13.22
16 West_German 18.57
17 South_Dutch 18.62
18 West_Sicilian 19.54
19 French_Basque 19.94
20 Italian_Abruzzo 20.56

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.8% Spanish_Valencia + 12.2% Mozabite_Berber @ 1.5
2 88% Spanish_Valencia + 12% Moroccan @ 1.52
3 87.7% Spanish_Valencia + 12.3% Algerian @ 1.54
4 88.1% Spanish_Valencia + 11.9% Tunisian @ 1.69
5 94.7% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.3% Tunisian @ 1.88
6 82.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 17.4% Libyan_Jewish @ 1.9
7 94.3% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 1.94
8 82.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 17.4% Tunisian_Jewish @ 1.94
9 94.7% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.3% Algerian @ 1.95
10 94.8% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.2% Mozabite_Berber @ 1.97
11 94.3% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.7% Italian_Jewish @ 1.98
12 91.3% Spanish_Murcia + 8.7% Mozabite_Berber @ 2
13 85.4% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.6% Moroccan @ 2
14 91.5% Spanish_Murcia + 8.5% Tunisian @ 2
15 85.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.8% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.02
16 95.2% Spanish_Extremadura + 4.8% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.03
17 95.2% Spanish_Extremadura + 4.8% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.04
18 86.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 13.8% Egyptian @ 2.05
19 94.2% Spanish_Extremadura + 5.8% Ashkenazi @ 2.05
20 92.2% Spanish_Extremadura + 7.8% West_Sicilian @ 2.06
Post MDLP World please.

[FilhoV]

Post MDLP World please.

MDLP World Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 South_and_West_European 49.03
2 North_and_East_European 24.96
3 Middle_East 15.72
4 Caucaus_Parsia 6.67
5 Sub_Saharian 3.22
6 Melanesian 0.21
7 Mesoamerican 0.13
8 Paleo_African 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Portugese 6.99
2 Italian_North 8.08
3 Provancal 8.59
4 Swiss 8.62
5 Bulgarian 9.3
6 Montenegrin 9.43
7 Italian-North 9.53
8 Macedonian 9.56
9 Iberian 10.2
10 Corsican 10.56
11 Gagauz 11.1
12 Serbian 11.26
13 Spaniard 11.78
14 Romania 11.78
15 Ashkenazim_V 12.57
16 French 13.21
17 German-South 13.54
18 Greek_South 14.4
19 Bosnian 14.69
20 Greek_North 14.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55% Latvian_V + 45% Otzi @ 2.6
2 83.9% Provancal + 16.1% Mozabite @ 3.44
3 84% Swiss + 16% Mozabite @ 3.53
4 82.9% French + 17.1% Bedouin @ 3.61
5 90.2% Provancal + 9.8% Jew_Ethiopia @ 3.61
6 90.2% Provancal + 9.8% Jew-Ethiopia @ 3.66
7 85.4% Provancal + 14.6% Moroccan @ 3.71
8 76.5% French + 23.5% Mozabite @ 3.86
9 79.7% French + 20.3% Egyptian @ 3.87
10 90.3% Provancal + 9.7% Ethiopian @ 3.89
11 91.1% Italian_North + 8.9% Jew_Ethiopia @ 4.07
12 91.1% Italian_North + 8.9% Jew-Ethiopia @ 4.08
13 67% Bosnian + 33% Otzi @ 4.11
14 89.1% Provancal + 10.9% Bedouin @ 4.13
15 85.7% Swiss + 14.3% Moroccan @ 4.14
16 59.8% Croatian_V + 40.2% Otzi @ 4.18
17 52.6% Ukrainian_V + 47.4% Otzi @ 4.18
18 91.2% Italian_North + 8.8% Ethiopian @ 4.21
19 68% Portugese + 32% Ashkenazim_V @ 4.23
20 89.1% Swiss + 10.9% Bedouin @ 4.23

[Leto]

Yazidis don't differ from normal Kurds, they are just slightly blonder due to inbreeding. Have you seen Egyptian and ethnic Arab Christians from Jordan and southern Iraq? They are very dark and look nothing like Europeans. The Ethnic Arab Christians from Jordan often claim Bedouin descent, well the Arab Christians in Southern Iraq are descendants of the Lakhmids. Oriental Jews mostly Mizrahim are dark and not light depending on the area they hail from. Since there has been Sephardim and even Ashkenazi migration in some Mideast nations. Iraqi Mizrahim can range in skin tone, those from the south tend to be dark as the local Arabs, well those from the North tend to be lighter, plus they have more of an Armenoid look to them.

There is no question that Europeans have left their impact in some areas such as the Greco-Romans, Crusaders, French and British colonization, and yes there were European and Caucasian slaves in the Mideast. In fact they did not whiten the area, they are simply strangers in the area.

In one Mideast family the sister can look swarthy typical MENA and yet her full blood brother can look "White" or pesudo-European, it's not uncommon in Iraq or even in Yemen where non-Arab mercenaries were brought.
All I can say is that Christian Syrians, Lebanese, etc. assimilate in North and South America while you turban and burqa wearing Islamists don't.

[StonyArabia]

Bro just reading this is embarrasing. If you are an Iraqi Arab there's nothing to be proud of, trust me my family is from Iraq. The horror stories I've heard from my great-grand parents of how the Arabs treated them is just mindblowing. You know there is a reason why ISIS became so big in Iraq in the first place, because they had a lot of support from Sunni Arabs.

I am a Bedouin Arab, originally from the Arabian peninsula, when the British tried to colonize and plunder it. Thus in 1921 the British and their Saud allies invade r area known as Jebal Shammar and expel them to Iraq, where they settle in Mosul, but they continue to fight the British thieves. As recently many of the Bedouin tribes in Iraq have actually been fighting against ISIS, the corrupt Anglo-Zionist placed government post 2003, and they also fought heavily against the Anglo-Zio-European forces also. Iraqi Bedouin tribes often offered protection to weak minorities from Kurdish,Persian, Turkish, and other Arab raids, but yes they took a tribute for it.

[Leto]

MDLP World Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 South_and_West_European 49.03
2 North_and_East_European 24.96
3 Middle_East 15.72
4 Caucaus_Parsia 6.67
5 Sub_Saharian 3.22
6 Melanesian 0.21
7 Mesoamerican 0.13
8 Paleo_African 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Portugese 6.99
2 Italian_North 8.08
3 Provancal 8.59
4 Swiss 8.62
5 Bulgarian 9.3
6 Montenegrin 9.43
7 Italian-North 9.53
8 Macedonian 9.56
9 Iberian 10.2
10 Corsican 10.56
11 Gagauz 11.1
12 Serbian 11.26
13 Spaniard 11.78
14 Romania 11.78
15 Ashkenazim_V 12.57
16 French 13.21
17 German-South 13.54
18 Greek_South 14.4
19 Bosnian 14.69
20 Greek_North 14.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55% Latvian_V + 45% Otzi @ 2.6
2 83.9% Provancal + 16.1% Mozabite @ 3.44
3 84% Swiss + 16% Mozabite @ 3.53
4 82.9% French + 17.1% Bedouin @ 3.61
5 90.2% Provancal + 9.8% Jew_Ethiopia @ 3.61
6 90.2% Provancal + 9.8% Jew-Ethiopia @ 3.66
7 85.4% Provancal + 14.6% Moroccan @ 3.71
8 76.5% French + 23.5% Mozabite @ 3.86
9 79.7% French + 20.3% Egyptian @ 3.87
10 90.3% Provancal + 9.7% Ethiopian @ 3.89
11 91.1% Italian_North + 8.9% Jew_Ethiopia @ 4.07
12 91.1% Italian_North + 8.9% Jew-Ethiopia @ 4.08
13 67% Bosnian + 33% Otzi @ 4.11
14 89.1% Provancal + 10.9% Bedouin @ 4.13
15 85.7% Swiss + 14.3% Moroccan @ 4.14
16 59.8% Croatian_V + 40.2% Otzi @ 4.18
17 52.6% Ukrainian_V + 47.4% Otzi @ 4.18
18 91.2% Italian_North + 8.8% Ethiopian @ 4.21
19 68% Portugese + 32% Ashkenazim_V @ 4.23
20 89.1% Swiss + 10.9% Bedouin @ 4.23
Wow, you're basically 1/32 Sub-Saharan, lol.

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

You do have some Iberian heritage that pops in every test. probably ancient mix, but in some test you are 1/6 Iberian, which is not low. I wonder if you are typical among berbers or more Atypical.

1/6 Iberian ? In which test ?
According to K13, the closest Europeans populations are Sicilians, Italians from Abruzzo and Greeks but they're still far (between 24 and 29). None of them is Iberian.
In the "Mixed Mode population", I have various Iberian-population (Sardinian and French as well) but it's always lower than 5%.

7 of 8 great-grandparents were Berbers from the Atlas mountains. One of them was from the Arabized Berbers of Northwestern Morocco. They usually score highest "Iberian/European" than the Moroccan average, whether due to ancient affinities or too more recent admixture (Romanized Iberians and Islamized Iberians) that have settled in North Africans cities.
I guess this great-grandfather is increasing my European-like component.

My Y-DNA's clade is supposed to have came from Iberia, but it has done so in ancient times (likely about 3500 years ago). I guess it doesn't really affect my Autosomal.
Note that the great-grandfather who was from Northern Morocco wasn't my Y-ancestor but rather my father's maternal grandfather.

[Aren]

I am a Bedouin Arab, originally from the Arabian peninsula, when the British tried to colonize and plunder it. Thus in 1921 the British and their Saud allies invade r area known as Jebal Shammar and expel them to Iraq, where they settle in Mosul, but they continue to fight the British thieves. As recently many of the Bedouin tribes in Iraq have actually been fighting against ISIS, the corrupt Anglo-Zionist placed government post 2003, and they also fought heavily against the Anglo-Zio-European forces also. Iraqi Bedouin tribes often offered protection to weak minorities from Kurdish,Persian, Turkish, and other Arab raids, but yes they took a tribute for it.

I don't know about all that. What I do know is that Sunni Arabs in Iraq are evil to the core. You can blame the US and Israel all you want, everyone knows their agenda. But ISIS didn't capture Mosul and it's 2 million inhabitants with their small army. Nope, they had enormous support from the Sunni Arabs living there. Do you know how many Assyrians that are being killed in Iraq by Arabs yet to this day?

Also you know your precious Arabs are very much part of this Anglo-Jewish alliance? Or do you actually think Saudi Arabia is innocent in all of what's happening in the ME?

[FilhoV]

Wow, you're basically 1/32 Sub-Saharan, lol.

The number these calculators put out is regards to that is far too inconsistent on K16 Modern I’m 0.00

[Leto]

Also you know your precious Arabs are very much part of this Anglo-Jewish alliance? Or do you actually think Saudi Arabia is innocent in all of what's happening in the ME?
S. Arabia is a Wahabi hellhole and needs to be nuked. Those camel...riders are rich only as long as they have money from crude oil trade. Without oil, Western technologies and South Asian manpower they would be as in the times of Mohammed.

[StonyArabia]

All I can say is that Christian Syrians, Lebanese, etc. assimilate in North and South America while you turban and burqa wearing Islamists don't.

Of course they can assimilate better than Us, because their civilization is shaped by Greco-Roman influence with slight Judaic elements similar to that of their European fellow, and perhaps have some Arabian culture elements. My point among them are ethnic Arabians who happen to be Christian, and that on average their not really whiter than us, especially Copts, Christian Arab Jordanians, and Southern Iraqi Arab Christians, however Maronites, Assyrians,a good amount of Syrian Christians can be lighter than us on average but not by much.

All I am saying that MENA's were never White or looked European, heck even looking Italian is a myth and not reality of genetics or the history of the region. The climate would not be conducive for light skin to be selected especially the Arabian peninsula and Iraq.

[Leto]

Of course they can assimilate better than Us, because their civilization is shaped by Greco-Roman influence with slight Judaic elements similar to that of their European fellow, and perhaps have some Arabian culture elements. My point among them are ethnic Arabians who happen to be Christian, and that on average their not really whiter than us, especially Copts, Christian Arab Jordanians, and Southern Iraqi Arab Christians, however Maronites, Assyrians,a good amount of Syrian Christians can be lighter than us on average but not by much.

All I am saying that MENA's were never White or looked European, heck even looking Italian is a myth and not reality of genetics or the history of the region. The climate would not be conducive for light skin to be selected especially the Arabian peninsula and Iraq.
They were never white as Northern Europeans, that's true, but the Levant was less Negro and Arabian-influenced before the spread of Islam.
By the way, there's no 'ethnic Jordanian Christians, from what I know. Most Jordanians are just displaced Palestinians.

[Kamal900]

They were never white as Northern Europeans, that's true, but the Levant was less Negro and Arabian-influenced before the spread of Islam.
By the way, there's no 'ethnic Jordanian Christians, from what I know. Most Jordanians are just displaced Palestinians.

But most wouldn't pass anywhere in Europe regardless on how pure Levantines they are genetically. There are people here who really overestimate the supposed Whiteness of the Lebanese and other Levantines. If anything really, Turks and Ashkenazi Jews are the Whitest in the near east, not us. Not exactly. Palestinians in Jordan make up around 60% of the population while the rest are of Bedouin ancestry.

[Kamal900]

I don't know about all that. What I do know is that Sunni Arabs in Iraq are evil to the core. You can blame the US and Israel all you want, everyone knows their agenda. But ISIS didn't capture Mosul and it's 2 million inhabitants with their small army. Nope, they had enormous support from the Sunni Arabs living there. Do you know how many Assyrians that are being killed in Iraq by Arabs yet to this day?

Also you know your precious Arabs are very much part of this Anglo-Jewish alliance? Or do you actually think Saudi Arabia is innocent in all of what's happening in the ME?

And who had given them the money and power to do these sort of things again? The ZOG of US and it's puppet monarchies of Arabia, Israel and Turkey were supporting ISIS and the FSA in Syria and Iraq, and it was the Shi3a Arabs that kicked the curb out of them with Russia's and Iran's help of course. ISIS are a pan-Islamist group where it consists of many ethnic groups from Sunni countries as well.

[StonyArabia]

I don't know about all that. What I do know is that Sunni Arabs in Iraq are evil to the core. You can blame the US and Israel all you want, everyone knows their agenda. But ISIS didn't capture Mosul and it's 2 million inhabitants with their small army. Nope, they had enormous support from the Sunni Arabs living there. Do you know how many Assyrians that are being killed in Iraq by Arabs yet to this day?

It was non-Arabs who also allied with ISIS, not only the Sunni Iraqi Arabs, because they were angry at the Shia lead regime. Do you know how many Sunni Arabs have been killed by Anglo-Euro-Zionist, btw many Assyrians and other minorities suffered because of the Anglo-Euro-Zionist wars they have unleashed. Sunni Arabs and Sunni Turkmens were radicalized because of the Shia Arab and Kurds who had marginalized them. Ironically the Shia Arabs turned on their Kurdish allies recently. Radicalization does not come out of thin air, plus the Iraqi government under Nour Al-Maliki gave orders to the Iraqi military not to fight, because he was also on it. Do you know that the majority of ISIS victims have been? Yes that's right Sunni Arabs have been the most victims of ISIS.


Also you know your precious Arabs are very much part of this Anglo-Jewish alliance? Or do you actually think Saudi Arabia is innocent in all of what's happening in the ME?

No, because my tribe has been at odds with the House of Saud, but hating the people that live there, not going to happen, as they are our brothers, sisters, and cousins and most importantly blood is thicker than water. Many people in Saudi Arabia oppose the government, and it's policies. However a lot of the problems and bloodshed that happens to Iraq is not from Saudi, but from the East yep Iran. Iran is the first to use it's terrorist puppet groups like Bader brigade to cleanse Sunni Arabs, Christian Arabs, Mandeans, and Assyrians from Southern Iraq!

[Leto]

But most wouldn't pass anywhere in Europe regardless on how pure Levantines they are genetically. There are people here who really overestimate the supposed Whiteness of the Lebanese and other Levantines. If anything really, Turks and Ashkenazi Jews are the Whitest in the near east, not us. Not exactly. Palestinians in Jordan make up around 60% of the population while the rest are of Bedouin ancestry.
I regard you as indigenous-looking. The user Randomguy once enlightened me on who's indigenous and who isn't.
This is an indigenous look for example:
http://ethnicelebs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/nasri.jpg

[Kamal900]

I regard you as indigenous-looking. The user Randomguy once enlightened me on who's indigenous and who isn't.
This is an indigenous look for example:
http://ethnicelebs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/nasri.jpg

Regardless, I don't seek acceptance from others. The man still doesn't look European. Sorry. The man is East-Med and Arabid.

[Leto]

Regardless, I don't seek acceptance from others. The man still doesn't look European. Sorry. The man is East-Med and Arabid.
At least he looks fully Caucasoid. I'm not a fan of black-admixed Arabs.

[Pahli]

It was non-Arabs who also allied with ISIS, not only the Sunni Iraqi Arabs, because they were angry at the Shia lead regime. Do you know how many Sunni Arabs have been killed by Anglo-Euro-Zionist, btw many Assyrians and other minorities suffered because of the Anglo-Euro-Zionist wars they have unleashed. Sunni Arabs and Sunni Turkmens were radicalized because of the Shia Arab and Kurds who had marginalized them. Ironically the Shia Arabs turned on their Kurdish allies recently. Radicalization does not come out of thin air, plus the Iraqi government under Nour Al-Maliki gave orders to the Iraqi military not to fight, because he was also on it. Do you know that the majority of ISIS victims have been? Yes that's right Sunni Arabs have been the most victims of ISIS.



No, because my tribe has been at odds with the House of Saud, but hating the people that live there, not going to happen, as they are our brothers, sisters, and cousins and most importantly blood is thicker than water. Many people in Saudi Arabia oppose the government, and it's policies. However a lot of the problems and bloodshed that happens to Iraq is not from Saudi, but from the East yep Iran. Iran is the first to use it's terrorist puppet groups like Bader brigade to cleanse Sunni Arabs, Christian Arabs, Mandeans, and Assyrians from Southern Iraq!

Lol, because Saddam Hussein didn't kill anyone and he was ironically a Sunni Arab WITH support from the West to cleanse Iraq from mostly Kurds but also Turkmens and some Assyrians too, he is the one that started the war with Iran, not vice versa.
Its going to take too long to discuss this topic, the shi'ite government in Iran is not a representative for the people, a lot of us hate the guts out of them for degenerating the country and radicalizing people, we definitely don't want them to stick their noses into other countries, especially Iraq.

[StonyArabia]

They were never white as Northern Europeans, that's true, but the Levant was less Negro and Arabian-influenced before the spread of Islam.
By the way, there's no 'ethnic Jordanian Christians, from what I know. Most Jordanians are just displaced Palestinians.

Depending on the region of Levant, some areas of the Levant were Arabian influenced, and SSA influence is found among all Semitic populations probably indicating some proto-Afro-Asiatic ancestry, as often it tends to be East African.

No ethnic Jordanians are often of Arabian Bedouin descent who have recently became a minority due to the displacement of the Palestinians. They look different than Palestinians as being darker, and they also have significant minority among them being Christians, they tend to be Orthodox or Protestant rarely Catholic.

[Kamal900]

Lol, because Saddam Hussein didn't kill anyone and he was ironically a Sunni Arab WITH support from the West to cleanse Iraq from mostly Kurds but also Turkmens and some Assyrians too, he is the one that started the war with Iran, not vice versa.
Its going to take too long to discuss this topic, the shi'ite government in Iran is not a representative for the people, a lot of us hate the guts out of them for degenerating the country and radicalizing people, we definitely don't want them to stick their noses into other countries, especially Iraq.

Saddam was a tyrant of course, but the main reason why the Americans attacked Iraq was not because of what happened to the innocent Kurds and Persians. It's a war for Israel at the end of the day, and now they're trumping for war against Iran next. Yes, Iran should have a free and nationalist government just like back in the day of the real shah of Iran in the 50's before he got replaced by the puppet monarchy even though the Shah later was showing signs of rebellion before the Islamic revolution. You can say that Saddam was the Milosevic of Iraq. He was a tyrant but no longer was under the deep pockets of the Zionist west.

[Kamal900]

At least he looks fully Caucasoid. I'm not a fan of black-admixed Arabs.

Lol, go to tell that to White nationalists on whether or not they accept non-White Caucasoids in the western world. Please, any self respecting person wouldn't grovel to outsiders for acceptance.

[Pahli]

Saddam was a tyrant of course, but the main reason why the Americans attacked Iraq was not because of what happened to the innocent Kurds and Persians. It's a war for Israel at the end of the day, and now they're trumping for war against Iran next. Yes, Iran should have a free and nationalist government just like back in the day of the real shah of Iran in the 50's before he got replaced by the puppet monarchy even though the Shah later was showing rebellion before the Islamic revolution. You can say that Saddam was the Milosevic of Iraq. He was a tyrant but no longer was under the deep pockets of the Zionist west.

Its because he attacked U.S allies and assets (more like oil allies) which upset them. He was already anti-Israeli during the Iran-Iraq gulf war, the Israeli bombed Iraqis nuclear power plant while the Americans and the West were throwing military equipment at his face, he spent 25% of his country's budget on military while Iran was weapon embargoed. It doesn't really have too much to do with Israel, its all political and economical, when Saddam stopped cooperating, he quickly became their enemy. Israel has always been against him, but the U.S and the West saw him as a strong ally until 91'.

[Smeagol]

Depending on the region of Levant, some areas of the Levant were Arabian influenced, and SSA influence is found among all Semitic populations probably indicating some proto-Afro-Asiatic ancestry, as often it tends to be East African.

Assyrians don't have any SSA. Proto-Afro-Asiatic probably comes from the Middle East.

[StonyArabia]

Lol, because Saddam Hussein didn't kill anyone and he was ironically a Sunni Arab WITH support from the West to cleanse Iraq from mostly Kurds but also Turkmens and some Assyrians too, he is the one that started the war with Iran, not vice versa.
Its going to take too long to discuss this topic, the shi'ite government in Iran is not a representative for the people, a lot of us hate the guts out of them for degenerating the country and radicalizing people, we definitely don't want them to stick their noses into other countries, especially Iraq.

Saddam was tyrant, but if you did not mess with him, he relatively left you alone and he was a racist. I don't know Saddam was to robust to be of Arabian descent, I honestly think he comes from Arabized background typical usually in the North of Iraq. Saddam was very friendly to Sunni Turkmens and Assyrians, but not so much to Kurds or Iranians. The Shia Turkmens often kept away from politics, and only recently have joined in.Originally he was fond of Shia Arabs, until some of them allied with Iran, and others started calling for a religious government, he began to fight them off in a brutal manner. As for Iran let me be clear I am not referring to the people but the Mullahs. The Mullahs are indeed making a lot of problems in the region. Iraq does not need meddling right now, but rather work on reconciliation, so radicalization does not happen among all groups. These ethno-sectarian group should stop marginalizing each other and try to find a solution.

[Kamal900]

Its because he attacked U.S allies and assets (more like oil allies) which upset them. He was already anti-Israeli during the Iran-Iraq gulf war, the Israeli bombed Iraqis nuclear power plant while the Americans and the West were throwing military equipment at his face, he spent 25% of his country's budget on military while Iran was weapon embargoed. It doesn't really have too much to do with Israel, its all political and economical, when Saddam stopped cooperating, he quickly became their enemy. Israel has always been against him, but the U.S and the West saw him as a strong ally until 91'.

No. You should see the Jewish neocons and their role in the Iraq war. They are pro-Israel Zionist Jewish think tanks who made plans in dividing the middle east even before the gulf war in 1991 which was known as "operation clean break". Watch this documentary film to understand more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jilA-ZeBUI4

[Pahli]

Saddam was tyrant, but if you did not mess with him, he relatively left you alone and he was a racist. I don't know Saddam was to robust to be of Arabian descent, I honestly think he comes from Arabized background typical usually in the North of Iraq. Saddam was very friendly to Sunni Turkmens and Assyrians, but not so much to Kurds or Iranians. The Shia Turkmens often kept away from politics, and only recently have joined in.Originally he was fond of Shia Arabs, until some of them allied with Iran, and others started calling for a religious government, he began to fight them off in a brutal manner. As for Iran let me be clear I am not referring to the people but the Mullahs. The Mullahs are indeed making a lot of problems in the region. Iraq does not need meddling right now, but rather work on reconciliation, so radicalization does not happen among all groups. These ethno-sectarian group should stop marginalizing each other and try to find a solution.

Both the Saudi royals and the Mullahs have funded terrorists, I don't disagree at all. But they aren't without support since a lot of ulemas are supporting them and helping them by radicalizing the population instead of actually educating people.

[Pahli]

No. You should see the Jewish neocons and their role in the Iraq war. They are pro-Israel Zionist Jewish think tanks who made plans in dividing the middle east even before the gulf war in 1991 which was known as "operation clean break". Watch this documentary film to understand more:

I know they had and still have plans to divide the Middle East, but that's because they want to establish assets in which they can gain profit and also have someone to sell weapons to, which is a huge bonus for American weapons industries.

[StonyArabia]

Both the Saudi royals and the Mullahs have funded terrorists, I don't disagree at all. But they aren't without support since a lot of ulemas are supporting them and helping them by radicalizing the population instead of actually educating people.

Yes indeed, the religious idiots have burned the Mideast sadly, it largely traces back to the formation of politicalized Islam with the Muslim brotherhood which was inspiration for both the Sunni and Shia Islamist parties. What is interesting that the Sunni political Islamist factions were never successful, unlike the the Shia Islamist parties who were, especially when they took over Iran in 1979, believe it or not, the West actually supported that, because they did not want to give the Shah refuge, so the Shah took refuge in Egypt, where eventually passed away there. The West is using these religious idiots for simply a divide and conquer strategy, and the uneducated people often support them sadly. Of course they don't want to educate people because they want to keep them in the dark, these people live off the ignorance of the people.

[Aren]

It was non-Arabs who also allied with ISIS, not only the Sunni Iraqi Arabs, because they were angry at the Shia lead regime. Do you know how many Sunni Arabs have been killed by Anglo-Euro-Zionist, btw many Assyrians and other minorities suffered because of the Anglo-Euro-Zionist wars they have unleashed. Sunni Arabs and Sunni Turkmens were radicalized because of the Shia Arab and Kurds who had marginalized them. Ironically the Shia Arabs turned on their Kurdish allies recently. Radicalization does not come out of thin air, plus the Iraqi government under Nour Al-Maliki gave orders to the Iraqi military not to fight, because he was also on it. Do you know that the majority of ISIS victims have been? Yes that's right Sunni Arabs have been the most victims of ISIS.
HAHAHAHAH WHAT AM I READING? You are not from the region, and it's clear you have no knowledge at all. Do you know who it was that marked Assyrian homes with the "N"(Nazarene=Christian) sign just before ISIS pillaged and detroyed their towns in Iraq? That's right the Sunni Arabs. How do I know this, oh cause I have family and relatives living in the Nineveh plains. Do you honestly believe ISIS was able to claim a city of the size of Mosul just with their small amount of men? It's known everywhere in Iraq and by every ethnic group that Sunni Arabs=ISIS. No debate whatsoever. And don't blame other people for "radicalizing" Arabs, one does not simply become ISIS, one CHOOSES to be this vile and evil. And most Sunni Arabs either chose to be part of ISIS or simply just supported them. Fact.



No, because my tribe has been at odds with the House of Saud, but hating the people that live there, not going to happen, as they are our brothers, sisters, and cousins and most importantly blood is thicker than water. Many people in Saudi Arabia oppose the government, and it's policies. However a lot of the problems and bloodshed that happens to Iraq is not from Saudi, but from the East yep Iran. Iran is the first to use it's terrorist puppet groups like Bader brigade to cleanse Sunni Arabs, Christian Arabs, Mandeans, and Assyrians from Southern Iraq!
And ofc Iran. You blame Anglo-Zionists and Iran at the same time, yet you leave the Saudis out of the blame. I can't understand how someone can be this delusional. Everyone with two sets of ears and eyes understands that the Saudis are deep in this mess together with Israel and the US. I'm not going to defend Iranians or any other muslim groups as an Assyrian, but everyone understands there's different levels of evil and Saudi Arabia is right there at the top.

[Leto]

Lol, go to tell that to White nationalists on whether or not they accept non-White Caucasoids in the western world. Please, any self respecting person wouldn't grovel to outsiders for acceptance.
Many white nationalists are absolutely clueless about genetics. They don't know that the Caucasoid race doesn't stop on the borders of Europe, in fact they often think all Arabs and Iranians are brown, which is not true. Many of them think Southern Europeans are mixed with non-whites or that the ancient Middle Easterners and Egyptians were literally white with light hair and blue eyes.
I believe that a small amount of assimilable non-Europeans can be tolerated/accepted. No Islamists though and preferably as few black people as possible.

[Kamal900]

I know they had and still have plans to divide the Middle East, but that's because they want to establish assets in which they can gain profit and also have someone to sell weapons to, which is a huge bonus for American weapons industries.

Not really. I mean, America had not benefited from the war in the slightest. Hell, even Trump himself acknowledges that fact. Benjamin Netanyahu on the other hand praised the war as the best thing ever happened to Israel. These Jewish neocons to this day work with the Likud party in Israel which Bibzy belonged to. It was not a war on America's interests. It is Israel's interests. Again, I'm not saying all Jews are like that, and even Jewish Americans were far more against the war in Iraq and supportive of the Iran deal than their gentile audiences. Americans need to talk about the catastrophic foreign policy of their country that had plunged America into wars that costed them trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of veterans coming back home either in body bags or mental and physical disabilities.

[Leto]

The Zionists, the Islamists and especially the fucking globalists/Marxists are all evil. All need to be purged from society. That's all I have to say regarding this off-topic discussion.

[Kamal900]

The Zionists, the Islamists and especially the fucking globalists/Marxists are all evil. All need to be purge from society. That's all I have to say regarding this off-topic discussion.

I fully agree with you on this.

[Aren]

Yes indeed, the religious idiots have burned the Mideast sadly, it largely traces back to the formation of politicalized Islam with the Muslim brotherhood which was inspiration for both the Sunni and Shia Islamist parties. What is interesting that the Sunni political Islamist factions were never successful, unlike the the Shia Islamist parties who were, especially when they took over Iran in 1979, believe it or not, the West actually supported that, because they did not want to give the Shah refuge, so the Shah took refuge in Egypt, where eventually passed away there. The West is using these religious idiots for simply a divide and conquer strategy, and the uneducated people often support them sadly. Of course they don't want to educate people because they want to keep them in the dark, these people live off the ignorance of the people.

And who is there to blame? The Jews, who rightfully want the Muslims to be dis-organized with internal conflicts so they don't turn towards Israel and bomb the shit out of it as we both know they very much are capable of doing or the Middle Eastern Muslims who are letting America and Israel toy with them and basically with minimal effort deciding the future of the ME?

[StonyArabia]

Not really. I mean, America had not benefited the war in the slightest. Hell, even Trump himself acknowledges that fact. Benjamin Netanyahu on the other hand praised the war as the best thing ever happened to Israel. These Jewish neocons to this day work with the Likud party in Israel which Bibzy belonged to. It was not a war on America's interests. It is Israel's interests. Again, I'm not saying all Jews are like that, and even Jewish Americans were far more against the war in Iraq and supportive of the Iran deal than their gentile audiences. Americans need to talk about the catastrophic foreign policy of their country that had plunged America into wars that costed them trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of veterans coming back home either in body bags or mental and physical disabilities.

If the Anglo-Euro-Zionists invaded Iraq, to remove Saddam, they would have done it in more peaceful way. However they knew if Saddam was removed from power, another individual is going to take leadership and might even be less extreme than Saddam. Thus a transition to equal democracy for all could have happened. The plan however was far more sinister than that. The Anglo-Euro-Zionist decided to stir ethnic and sectarian hate. Thus you had Arab Shias attacking Arab Sunnis, vice versa, minorities caught in the Middle, or infighting among the minority groups themselves, Iraqi Sunni Turkmens began to claim they are being discriminated by Shia Iraqi Turkmens, even different Kurdish political parties began to fight among themselves. This all happened in 2006-2008, this was to weaken the country, for the sake of none but Israel.

[StonyArabia]

The Zionists, the Islamists and especially the fucking globalists/Marxists are all evil. All need to be purged from society. That's all I have to say regarding this off-topic discussion.

I agree 100%

[Kamal900]

And who is there to blame? The Jews, who rightfully want the Muslims to be dis-organized with internal conflicts so they don't turn towards Israel and bomb the shit out of it as we both know they very much are capable of doing or the Middle Eastern Muslims who are letting America and Israel toy with them and basically with minimal effort deciding the future of the ME?

You do realize that Israel has good relations with Saudi Arabia despite that Saudi Arabia doesn't have official diplomatic relations with Israel, and that Saudi Arabia takes orders from the Americans who are being controlled by Jewish oligarchs of America and the western world, right? Honestly, it's not up to Jews, Muslims and outsiders in general to decide on running the middle east. Btw, Israel also supported the FSA and even ISIS fighters back in Golan heights as well. Yes, I agree that the monarchs of Saudi Arabia are terrible, but they're not the top. I mean, you honestly think that Saudi Arabia can do whatever it wants without the consent of the Americans? Please.

[Kamal900]

If the Anglo-Euro-Zionists invaded Iraq, to remove Saddam, they would have done it in more peaceful way. However they knew if Saddam was removed from power, another individual is going to take leadership and might even be less extreme than Saddam. Thus a transition to equal democracy for all could have happened. The plan however was far more sinister than that. The Anglo-Euro-Zionist decided to stir ethnic and sectarian hate. Thus you had Arab Shias attacking Arab Sunnis, vice versa, minorities caught in the Middle, or infighting among the minority groups themselves, Iraqi Sunni Turkmens began to claim they are being discriminated by Shia Iraqi Turkmens, even different Kurdish political parties began to fight among themselves. This all happened in 2006-2008, this was to weaken the country, for the sake of none but Israel.

As they say "divide and conquer".

[Aren]

You do realize that Israel has good relations with Saudi Arabia despite that Saudi Arabia doesn't have official diplomatic relations with Israel, and that Saudi Arabia takes orders from the Americans who are being controlled by Jewish oligarchs of America and the western world, right? Honestly, it's not up to Jews, Muslims and outsiders in general to decide on running the middle east. Btw, Israel also supported the FSA and even ISIS fighters back in Golan heights as well. Yes, I agree that the monarchs of Saudi Arabia are terrible, but they're not the top. I mean, you honestly think that Saudi Arabia can do whatever it wants without the consent of the Americans? Please.

I'm not disagreeing. I just don't think there's anyone to blame other then the uneducated, backward, highly fanatic Muslims of the ME. Israel is doing what it needs to do to survive, ie creating chaos and internal conflicts between muslims so they don't turn on Israel. And it's highly successful.

[StonyArabia]

You do realize that Israel has good relations with Saudi Arabia despite that Saudi Arabia doesn't have official diplomatic relations with Israel, and that Saudi Arabia takes orders from the Americans who are being controlled by Jewish oligarchs of America and the western world, right? Honestly, it's not up to Jews, Muslims and outsiders in general to decide on running the middle east. Btw, Israel also supported the FSA and even ISIS fighters back in Golan heights as well. Yes, I agree that the monarchs of Saudi Arabia are terrible, but they're not the top. I mean, you honestly think that Saudi Arabia can do whatever it wants without the consent of the Americans? Please.

He believes that Sauds=Saudis, but he does not realize the Saud gave their name to the area. Sure Saudi Arabia has some relation to Israel, but that's the monarchy not the people. The people are not fond of Israel or the Zionist anymore than you or me to be honest. Let's be honest at least that house has produced great leaders like King Fisal who gave the finger to both the Anglo-Euros and the Zionists the finger. This why King Fisal was murdered because he wanted to free his people from Anglo-Euro-Zionist control, and plus he was true nationalist, sadly there are no leaders like him today, but there is always hope.

[Kamal900]

I'm not disagreeing. I just don't think there's anyone to blame other then the uneducated, backward, highly fanatic Muslims of the ME. Israel is doing what it needs to do to survive, ie creating chaos and internal conflicts between muslims so they don't turn on Israel. And it's highly successful.

Well, I'm not blaming anyone for the backwardness of many Muslims these days either, but again, if Israel strives by creating divisions and chaos in the region for their own interests then that's criminal really. I mean, do I have to let a parasite within my body to thrive while my body's dying because the parasite as the right to survive? Again, Israel doesn't really have many enemies, and Jordan and Egypt are completely composite with it. In other words, no justice, no peace. No sir.

[Kamal900]

He believes that Sauds=Saudis, but he does not realize the Saud gave their name to the area. Sure Saudi Arabia has some relation to Israel, but that's the monarchy not the people. The people are not fond of Israel or the Zionist anymore than you or me to be honest. Let's be honest at least that house has produced great leaders like King Fisal who gave the finger to both the Anglo-Euros and the Zionists the finger. This why King Fisal was murdered because he wanted to free his people from Anglo-Euro-Zionist control, and plus he was true nationalist, sadly there are no leaders like him today, but there is always hope.

Indeed. I was not saying the Saudi people are bad. I was just saying the puppet monarchies of Arabia and Jordan that are the problem. If anything really, most people of Arabia want these people gone.

[Aren]

Well, I'm not blaming anyone for the backwardness of many Muslims these days either, but again, if Israel strives by creating divisions and chaos in the region for their own interests then that's criminal really. I mean, do I have to let a parasite within my body to thrive while my body's dying because the parasite as the right to survive? Again, Israel doesn't really have many enemies, and Jordan and Egypt are completely composite with it. In other words, no justice, no peace. No sir.

Yes if you can't find a way to get rid of it then the parasite will win and it will kill you. That's how the world works. You can call it criminal but it's smart from the Zionists, cause lets be honest if they tried living peacfully in their own nation it would only be a matter of time before another Jewish genocide occurred in the hands of the muslims. There's no reasoning with the fanatics of the ME. They need to be treated the way Israel is doing, that's what they are worth.

[Sp_loa]

1/6 Iberian ? In which test ?
According to K13, the closest Europeans populations are Sicilians, Italians from Abruzzo and Greeks but they're still far (between 24 and 29). None of them is Iberian.
In the "Mixed Mode population", I have various Iberian-population (Sardinian and French as well) but it's always lower than 5%.

7 of 8 great-grandparents were Berbers from the Atlas mountains. One of them was from the Arabized Berbers of Northwestern Morocco. They usually score highest "Iberian/European" than the Moroccan average, whether due to ancient affinities or too more recent admixture (Romanized Iberians and Islamized Iberians) that have settled in North Africans cities.
I guess this great-grandfather is increasing my European-like component.

My Y-DNA's clade is supposed to have came from Iberia, but it has done so in ancient times (likely about 3500 years ago). I guess it doesn't really affect my Autosomal.
Note that the great-grandfather who was from Northern Morocco wasn't my Y-ancestor but rather my father's maternal grandfather.

DNA.Land: 17% Southwestern Europe= (Iberia)

I wonder if my Berber Admixture is fro, pure Berbers or Arabized Berbers. The mixture between North-African Jews ("Berber-Jews") happened way before Arabs and Islam arrived into North-Africa.

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

DNA.Land: 17% Southwestern Europe= (Iberia)

I wonder if my Berber Admixture is fro, pure Berbers or Arabized Berbers. The mixture between North-African Jews ("Berber-Jews") happened way before Arabs and Islam arrived into North-Africa.

Believe me. I've seen a lot of Moroccans results on DNA.land and I noticed 17% isn't really higher than the Moroccan average. Imo, DNA.land tends to overestimate the European component.
I really think it has to do with ancient genetic affinities.

PS : the 17% Southwestern Europe includes 4% Sardinian.
On K36, I score :
-7,19% West Med (Sardinian). Moroccans usually score about 7%.
- 15,02% Iberian. The Moroccan average would be about 13-14%. Berbers from the Middle Atlas usually score 15-16%.
As you can see, my Iberian / Sardinian "component" isn't higher than the average.

[Sp_loa]

Believe me. I've seen a lot of Moroccans results on DNA.land and I noticed 17% isn't really higher than the Moroccan average. Imo, DNA.land tends to overestimate the European component.
I really think it has to do with ancient genetic affinities.

PS : the 17% Southwestern Europe includes 4% Sardinian.
On K36, I score :
-7,19% West Med (Sardinian). Moroccans usually score about 7%.
- 15,02% Iberian. The Moroccan average would be about 13-14%. Berbers from the Middle Atlas usually score 15-16%.
As you can see, my Iberian / Sardinian "component" isn't higher than the average.

Oh. I guess most Berbers have European Ancestry from ancient times

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

Oh. I guess most Berbers have European Ancestry from ancient times

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29186445_10211345138848557_1017125088362758144_n.p ng?oh=049749fd6484e112f4fe00e54ce29cb6&oe=5B029E9E

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29137027_10211345130928359_2402116341831041024_n.p ng?oh=18ac61970e146bb0b8448233c990d22b&oe=5B43E0C4

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29196539_10211345144648702_3066045078075080704_n.p ng?oh=6e2db8f3dacd0668b54b607279c7873b&oe=5B40962B

IAM : Early Moroccan Neolithic
KEB : Late Moroccan Neolithic

Read more at https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/09/21/191569.full.pdf

[User50]

I though this afro-centric view was trashed with the study that tested some Egyptian mummies and they turned out to be significantly less East African than modern day Egyptians.

Nobody (except for you) disputes that Nubians conquered Egypt and set up their 26th dynasty for about 100 years. Not sure why you're denying it.

However, nobody except for Afrocentrists thinks the other Egyptian dynasties were black. And frankly the Nubian dynasty was well past the pyramids and Egypts glory days.

[Mmmmm]

A very small percentage.

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

DNA.Land: 17% Southwestern Europe= (Iberia)

I wonder if my Berber Admixture is fro, pure Berbers or Arabized Berbers. The mixture between North-African Jews ("Berber-Jews") happened way before Arabs and Islam arrived into North-Africa.

I think the first conversions occured around 100 BCE.

[Kamal900]

Yes if you can't find a way to get rid of it then the parasite will win and it will kill you. That's how the world works. You can call it criminal but it's smart from the Zionists, cause lets be honest if they tried living peacfully in their own nation it would only be a matter of time before another Jewish genocide occurred in the hands of the muslims. There's no reasoning with the fanatics of the ME. They need to be treated the way Israel is doing, that's what they are worth.

So why are you against the radicalization of Muslims then? I mean, if it's beneficial on Israel's part by having Muslims killing people that they deemed to be enemies of the state then you shouldn't really be complaining all that much. It's not like Israel remotely cares about Assyrians and other outsiders that don't have any value in their part. There was no "genocide" against the Jews, and the holocaust is largely exaggerated where many people are in prison for even questioning it in majority of European nations. Again, why should the gentiles of the western world spent trillions of dollars and die for a nation that is smaller than the size of Kentucky? The founding fathers of America would have never allowed America to drag itself to wars and conflicts that would hurt America in the long run.

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

Oh. I guess most Berbers have European Ancestry from ancient times

Berbers or Arabized Berbers from Central or Southern Morocco :

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29244152_10211348550893856_5352721301809135616_n.p ng?_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&oh=95707c947a5429d1c3f162d616dd0931&oe=5B43BCAB

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29213891_10211348556453995_175552342932848640_n.pn g?_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&oh=4a55d426a31b00d9f25e42e08e6491c6&oe=5AFFE23E

https://scontent.fmad3-8.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29187136_10211348558334042_6121168866065252352_n.p ng?oh=36f0f7cb4926245d1973cc16d972b5a2&oe=5B32664B

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29213882_10211348560614099_5854212326219055104_n.p ng?_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&oh=75ee50f45117b3f0009d5f1f581cd55e&oe=5B3A780B

https://scontent.fmad3-8.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29176947_10211348562054135_8914504188226961408_n.p ng?oh=ca5176f39169981530def79be6d6e31a&oe=5B3389C1

https://scontent.fmad3-8.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29215992_10211348563214164_8970885521001676800_n.p ng?oh=758af1e8264586ffba93b5bce12be499&oe=5B48B833

https://scontent.fmad3-8.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29214025_10211348568134287_300167649340424192_n.pn g?oh=0f35f7b5b88a656950794896ce9c3662&oe=5B496373

https://scontent-mrs1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29178606_10211348593774928_916926993155489792_n.pn g?_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&oh=13c55edb50d84f3ed3beb225a67cb9bf&oe=5B4D471A

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29186601_10211348640456095_7996000164684759040_n.p ng?_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&oh=da09372963663b207a7121a9cad8e683&oe=5B30B565

Mine :
https://scontent-mrs1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29216214_10211348596655000_1456058217594355712_n.p ng?_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&oh=af9a25ccc24815dae949c0cafaef4944&oe=5B3D2DFD


Berber from Central Morocco with no recent european admixture : I guess she has at least a great-great-grandparent from Northern Morocco.

https://scontent.fmad3-8.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29197217_10211348583014659_831415426947743744_n.pn g?oh=ed3cab74b21462706d39d34a3906abdc&oe=5B3FCD28


Berbers or Arabized Berbers from Northern Morocco :

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29176814_10211348586814754_8556858348773834752_n.p ng?_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&oh=cda1f8803952936f92d560fa3c75a909&oe=5B3524D8

https://scontent.fmad3-8.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29186701_10211348590654850_8976958261160837120_n.p ng?oh=bed6526a96aeecfafeea7296e47ca1f9&oe=5B059335

https://scontent-mrs1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29186389_10211348603975183_984515227045330944_n.pn g?_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&oh=7daec529bcd9a7b0458b44a595842ae6&oe=5B45500B

https://scontent.fmad3-8.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29186569_10211348606455245_5879590759690141696_n.p ng?oh=7633df2cf9ff5e7b7d11ec94d996653d&oe=5B34BCDF

https://scontent-mrs1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29177855_10211348608695301_8308292785874665472_n.p ng?_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&oh=7353a544142c4a16e7c276a59e1b7282&oe=5B01B61B

https://scontent-mrs1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29178403_10211348611375368_4947477260392202240_n.p ng?_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&oh=2ef2b2e61d483bdaaca2566054ff7479&oe=5B3471E6

[Cristiano viejo]

^ wow... then we can say Berbers descend of Iberians rather than the opposite, I see...

[Bobby Martnen]

I do think if you removed the SSA from Berbers, they would be quite close to Sicilians actually. Their East to West Med ratio is very close. The only major differences would be that Sicilians have high Caucasian ancestry, Berbers do not.

Berbers are are Greco-Roman origin? I thought they were indigenous to the Sahara

[Bobby Martnen]

The Spanish average climbs so much due Canarians, who are not ethnic Spaniards.


So Canarians aren't ethnic Spaniards because they're more MENA, but Basques (despite having a different language) are because they are more European?

Whitewasher.

[AK-47]

A little Moorish ancestry, goes a long way.
It makes many Iberian's look quite North African in phenotype, despite their genetics being overwhelmingly euro.

[Cristiano viejo]

So Canarians aren't ethnic Spaniards because they're more MENA, but Basques (despite having a different language) are because they are more European?

Whitewasher.

Canarians are not more MENA. Canarians are directly a mix between an ethnic Spaniard and a Guanche.
Now it is when you go to search what a Guanche is because in your ignorant life you have heard about them :D

Basques are ethnic Spaniards since they are purely Iberians and plus they are mixed with a lot of other Iberians :thumb001:

[FilhoV]

Andas tudo cagado fodas

[Odin]

xD

https://i.imgur.com/RXazzfb.jpg

[Imperator Biff]

Only pure Iberians are basques. Rest have North African and East med (Greek/Syro-Anatolian) dna.

[Token]

Only pure Iberians are basques. Rest have North African and East med (Greek/Syro-Anatolian) dna.

And Celtic.

[dududud]

What the percentage of non native and non european blood in the Barbagia region on Sardinia (based on a genetic study of this region, please)?

[Adamastor]

What the percentage of non native and non european blood in the Barbagia region on Sardinia (based on a genetic study of this region, please)?

Sardinians have no degree of ''non-European'' blood on average. They can overlap with Northwest Africans sometimes due to shared neolithic ancestry, but that's all. Sardinians have no direct North African or Arab blood.

The myth that Southern Sardinians look darker due to admixture is just a myth, hehe. Sardinians can be very dark naturally, given they are the least Indo-European ethnicity in Europe.

[dududud]

Sardinians have no degree of ''non-European'' blood on average. They can overlap with Northwest Africans sometimes due to shared neolithic ancestry, but that's all. Sardinians have no direct North African or Arab blood.

The myth that Southern Sardinians look darker due to admixture is just a myth, hehe. Sardinians can be very dark naturally, given they are the least Indo-European ethnicity in Europe.

what do you say is based on a genetic study? because the recent genetic study on Sardinia showed the big genetic variations existing in sardegna...

it is not about "southern Sardinia" because genetic and phenotypic variations exist even in several villages in southern Sardinia.

It's more complicated.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?283515-Population-history-from-the-Neolithic-to-present-on-the-Mediterranean-island-of-Sardinia

Read the full article.

[Adamastor]

what do you say is based on a genetic study? because the recent genetic study on Sardinia showed the big genztic variations existing in sardegna.

it is not about "southern Sardinia" because genetic and phenotypic variations exist even in several villages in southern Sardinia.

It's more complicated.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?283515-Population-history-from-the-Neolithic-to-present-on-the-Mediterranean-island-of-Sardinia

Well, it's more than attested now that Sardinians are basically neolithic with some other minor stuff. The differences are mostly based on these minor things.

[Duffmannn]

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/06/04/ciencia/1559654994_049558.html

Al-Andalus no dejó rastro en la genética del sur de España
Un estudio muestra la similitud del ADN respecto a otros habitantes de la Península y pueblos europeos pese a la prolongada presencia árabe

Almerienses, granadinos y malagueños tienen tanto de africanos como los gallegos o castellanos. A pesar de la larga presencia árabe y norteafricana en esta porción de España, un estudio genético muestra ahora que su huella genética en el sur apenas ha pervivido. Ni siquiera hay diferencias genéticas significativas con otros pueblos europeos.
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Al-Andalus left no trace in the genetics of southern Spain
A study shows the similarity of DNA with other inhabitants of the Peninsula and European peoples despite the prolonged Arab presence

Almerians, Grenadians and Malaga have as much of Africans as Galicians or Castilians. Despite the long Arab and North African presence in this portion of Spain, a genetic study now shows that its genetic fingerprint in the South has barely survived. There are not even significant genetic differences with other European peoples.

[Rocinante]

0%

~4% of iberomaurisian in average

[Kmakkmak]

such as E-M34

[Nassbean]

5% in average for Spain but that's because the Basque region is included some regions can reach 10-15% easily if you take into account galicia and Portugal (for obvious reasons people from the canary islands are not included here). In the past south-eastern iberians had way way more north african ancestry.

[Rocinante]

5% in average for Spain but that's because the Basque region is included some regions can reach 10-15% easily if you take into account galicia and Portugal (for obvious reasons people from the canary islands are not included here). In the past south-eastern iberians had way way more north african ancestry.

No region reachs 10% in average, it's impossible. Yes, there is a small genetic legacy, but in the Peninsula it never goes up to +10%.

[Nassbean]

No region reachs 10% in average, it's impossible. Yes, there is a small genetic legacy, but in the Peninsula it never goes up to +10%.

Yes not average I made a mistake but based on the results I saw it's totally possible for some of them but the average for regions like Galicia,extremadura , castilla y leon is around 8-9%

[Rocinante]

Yes not average I made a mistake but based on the results I saw it's totally possible for some of them but the average for regions like Galicia,extremadura , castilla y leon is around 8-9%

You're right. National average of ME/NA components (mainly iberomaurusian) would be around 5%, but it's true that some galician, portuguese, extremadurans and andalusians reach 10%. Still 90% european by ancient components.

[Nassbean]

You're right. National average of ME/NA components (mainly iberomaurusian) would be around 5%, but it's true that some galician, portuguese, extremadurans and andalusians reach 10%. Still 90% european by ancient components.

I don't understand why you focus on iberomaurusian it only composes one third of our dna (and btw iberomaurusians were not even berbers)

[Rocinante]

I don't understand why you focus on iberomaurusian it only composes one third of our dna (and btw iberomaurusians were not even berbers)

Exactly. I focus on iberomaurusian because it doesn't belong to moors or spanish, it's a ancient shared component. That's why i focus on it.

[SharpFork]

You're right. National average of ME/NA components (mainly iberomaurusian) would be around 5%, but it's true that some galician, portuguese, extremadurans and andalusians reach 10%. Still 90% european by ancient components.
95% actually, 90% for Canarians.

[SharpFork]

I don't understand why you focus on iberomaurusian it only composes one third of our dna (and btw iberomaurusians were not even berbers)
When did Berbers arrive in the Maghreb region?

[Duffmannn]

People here seem to confuse moorish legacy with north african one.

[Adamm]

People here seem to confuse moorish legacy with north african one.

Das rite

https://i.imgur.com/XKskUgK.png

[Morena]

No region reachs 10% in average, it's impossible. Yes, there is a small genetic legacy, but in the Peninsula it never goes up to +10%.

Certain areas reach 10%, but 15% is too high.

[Nassbean]

When did Berbers arrive in the Maghreb region?

8th millenium BC

[Adamm]

8th millenium BC

I don't think its right to say that the berbers 'arrived'. Berbers are the genetic continuity of the Iberomaurusians, there are most likely more Iberimaurusians with E-M81 which we didn't discover yet.

[Rocinante]

Certain areas reach 10%, but 15% is too high.

15% is too high inside the Peninsula.

[Nassbean]

I don't think its right to say that the berbers 'arrived'. Berbers are the genetic continuity of the Iberomaurusians, there are most likely more Iberimaurusians with E-M81 which we didn't discover yet.

No iberomaurusians mixed with the proto-berbers called "capsians" who came from the Near east then they later mixed with european migrants and today berbers are the product of all of this but it's important to remember that the berber culture/languages mainly derives from the capsian one (at least it's the opinion of many specialists)

[SharpFork]

8th millenium BC
Wait when is MAR_EN and MAR_LN dated?

[Rocinante]

Wait when is MAR_EN and MAR_LN dated?

Mar_Taforalt is before these.

[SharpFork]

Mar_Taforalt is before these.
Of course but I'm confused as to when the Neolithic starts in the Maghreb.

[Nassbean]

Wait when is MAR_EN and MAR_LN dated?

IAM is 6000BC while KEB is around 4000-3000 BCE

(edit : I made a little mistake IAM is 8000 BP so 6000 BCE)

[Kmakkmak]

E-M34 with Napoleon could be Moorish origins.

[SharpFork]

IAM is 6000BC while KEB is around 4000-3000 BCE

(edit : I made a little mistake IAM is 8000 BP so 6000 BCE)

Doesn't this mean Berber came after 6000 BCE? The earlier sample is almost pure Iberomaurusian.

[Nassbean]

Doesn't this mean Berber came after 6000 BCE? The earlier sample is almost pure Iberomaurusian.

the early capsian remains (8th millenium BC) were found in Tunisia so I suppose it took them more time to influenced the rest of the maghreb but do not forget that IAM people are also part of our dna they were not totally replaced

[SharpFork]

the early capsian remains (8th millenium BC) were found in Tunisia so I suppose it took them more time to influenced the rest of the maghreb but do not forget that IAM people are also part of our dna they were not totally replaced
I guess given that IAM is in Morocco it could have took a while before the Capsians reached it.

[Rocinante]

Only 2%? You have to keep in mind that the Moors didn't just bring SSA and Red Sea-like DNA but also some farmer genes. Using nMone it varies from about 3-4% close to the Pyreneés to 10-11% in the West and South.

"distance%=3.1615"

Spanish_Aragon

Barcin_N,54.2
Yamnaya_Samara,26.6
WHG,12.8
Mozabite,3.4
Yamnaya_Kalmykia,3

"distance%=2.4797"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Barcin_N,53.4
Yamnaya_Samara,16.2
Yamnaya_Kalmykia,13.6
WHG,11.8
Mozabite,5

"distance%=2.1625"

Spanish_Galicia

Barcin_N,48.6
Yamnaya_Samara,28.8
WHG,11.6
Mozabite,11

"distance%=2.3004"

Spanish_Extremadura

Barcin_N,49.8
Yamnaya_Samara,29.2
WHG,10.8
Mozabite,10.2

EEF is european, no matter what who brings it, and no, this EEF was brought by EEFs itselfs and Neolithic revolution in Iberia. The pre-celtic iberian had 3/4 of EEF.

[Aren]

EEF is european, no matter what who brings it, and no, this EEF was brought by EEFs itselfs and Neolithic revolution in Iberia. The pre-celtic iberian had 3/4 of EEF.

This thread’s name is ”Moorish genetic legacy”. You simply don’t use Paleolithic genomes from North Africa to find out how much Moorish heritage you have. Modern day Moroccans and the medieval Guanches would be the most optimal choices.

[Rocinante]

This thread’s name is ”Moorish genetic legacy”. You simply don’t use Paleolithic genomes from North Africa to find out how much Moorish heritage you have. Modern day Moroccans and the medieval Guanches would be the most optimal choices.

I give a fuck of what you consider moorish or not, if that would be the case, then you are european plus moor plus mongol. EEF is only european because it peaks in europeans, i don't care if moors had it.

[Aren]

I give a fuck of what you consider moorish or not, if that would be the case, then you are european plus moor plus mongol. EEF is only european because it peaks in europeans, i don't care if moors had it.

What I consider? It is THE definition of Moors. They were a medieval phenomenon and were nowhere near fully Taforalt-like.
If you want to suppress the NA influence in Iberia by using Paleolithic samples then go ahead, but don't act like it's the correct way to calculate actual Moorish input.

[Rocinante]

What I consider? It is THE definition of Moors. They were a medieval phenomenon and were nowhere near fully Taforalt-like.
If you want to suppress the NA influence in Iberia by using Paleolithic samples then go ahead, but don't act like it's the correct way to calculate actual Moorish input.

That's how every scientist does :lol: not only me. The true admixture of an individual is by ancient DNA.